Nice analysis. rec’d!

I think it would interesting to see the 40 times for successful cornerbacks.

Years ago, I was watching Animal Planet or something and saw a lynx chasing a snowshoe hare (or some kind of rabbit). The rabbit’s agility made me realize that cornerbacks need speed more than receivers, because the receivers know where they’re going and the cornerbacks don’t.

almost meaningless to the way the game is played. Few plays require a player to go full speed for 40 yards. Yes they do occur, but, really not that often. I would agree with Agent Jerry that CBs need top flight speed more than the WRs do for the reason he gives. So the real measure of a great CB isn’t how fast he runs a 40, but how quickly does he make up the distant between himself and the receiver. Maybe what we need to see is how fast they get to 10 yards…….

It seems while speed is A factor, it is not THE factor for NFL success

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This is a very good point. As with height, most of the conversations that you hear regarding speed are entirely theoretical. For example, you often hear, “Well, all other things being equal…” And, in that hypothetical situation, the point is valid. However, it has to be noted that all things are never equal. Every player has a skillset. Nearly every one has weaknesses. They all have strengths. Speed can be incredibly helpful, but you’ll never hear someone say, “Well, Larry Fitzgerald would be one of the best if his 40 time was just .1 seconds faster, you know…..”

One other point: We commonly say that “speed can’t be taught”. The fact is – that isn’t true, and it hasn’t been in decades. There are extensive ways to train for timed speed that are very effective. One option is the overspeed training that was pioneered in the 1970s by the Russian track and field team trainers. A fellow by the name of Chip Smith brought it to the US in 1987. Smith claims that he can shave .2 seconds off of anyone’s 40 time with a couple of month of training in his system, and he has the world champions in track and field to prove it. But running a ‘naked’ straight line 40 (a concept originally instigated by the great Paul Brown in the 1940s, since it was the distance that he felt someone would run on average to cover a punt) has very little to do with your more important ‘playing speed’. Those players, like Smith and Bailey, who can diagnose plays with lightning quickness are already moving to the point of attack before other players are out of their backpedal and they take angles that shave off time further. Since that is true, how fast they might cover a punt if they didn’t have pads or opponents is only of minimal importance.

Sure, if all else is equal, go with the fellow with a faster time. But things are never equal, and we shouldn’t let ourselves get confused. Thanks for a very informative article!

You have Hillis faster in the 40 than Moreno, but when it comes time to switch lanes, I would put my money on Moreno any day. He’ll juke him.

for a rebuttal on Yahoo when The “Shut Down Corner” claimed that the Broncos did not have a “Deep Threat.” So lined up Eddie , and Randy Moss, TO, Jerry Rice , and Larry Fitzgerald among others just to prove him wrong in an intelligent manner. With that response, I believe at least two people have at the very least been exposed to this site.

I would like to see our DB times in this comparison, especially the Phonz.
Excellent work BroncTastic! Rec’d

This video shows two DHB catches against Wake Forest. The first is routine, but the second is against our very own Alphonso Smith.

As you know, DHB logged the fastest time at the combine. As you can see in the video, Alphonso does a nice job of staying with DHB and only an exceptional effort from Heyword-Bey allows him to make the catch.

Sadly, in what could be a preview of many epic AFC West battles, DHB had a career game against Wake Forest, catching 11 balls for 101 yards and a touchdown. Obviously, Alphonso didn’t cover DHB the entire game, as the first catch demonstrates.

That would certainly seem surprising given his abilities on a professional level. Good post! Rec’d

I’m definitely not a physiologist but it seams to me that the same muscles for vert leap would be used in change of direction which is critical for being reactive for a db.

rep’d btw good info!

The greatest wide receiver to ever play the game was “slow” in 40 yard dash terms.

Of course one has to consider that back in the 80’s when the greatest ever was drafted, players weren’t as fast as they are now. Nonetheless though, there are some VERY interesting names on there that were/are considered “slow” by that standard. It really makes you wonder why coaches rely so heavily on combine stats.

Let it be known that I believe it works both ways, not just in defense of things. Just because a guy wearing my team colors got a good combine scorecard doesn’t mean he’s an instant hit either. He has no more or less “bust” potential than anyone else, in my opinion.

As a DC, I was a huge fan of speed. I wanted fast LBs and DBs, and heavily recruited from the track team. However, I learned that straight line speed is not always an indicator of success. Still, speed can be so intoxicating that I often found myself trying to fit a lot of square pegs in round holes.

A lot of variables have to be factored into “speed”. Such as:

Can the guy tackle?
Is he scared of the game (does he shy away from contact)?
Does equiptment affect his abilities more than it does others?
How agile is he (can he “turn on a dime”)?
Does he have good hands (catching)?
Does he have a knack for the position?
Is he smart?

Speed was one of the things I liked to look at first, but it was almost always crowded out by other factors pretty quickly. My teams were known for being fast, but the fastest players I often wanted often turned out to not be cut out for the game.

Rec’d

I think there’s two main things to consider: 1) actual speed, and 2) relevance of actual speed. By actual speed I mean a receiver or back in a footrace with a defender. It assumes equipment. Forty yard times don’t accurately measure this with or without pads, because technique in getting off the line and up to speed is such a huge factor. If a player is .15 slower than another that’s well within, it seems to me, the amount of time he could have lost at the start. It occurred to me that having a player run 50 or 60 yards and timing a 40-yard segment after he gets up to speed would be a better approximation of in-game “actual speed”, but USMCWall‘s radar gun is simpler and more effective. I’m surprised they don’t do that at the combine.

But speed isn’t everything and, anyway, the differences aren’t huge. We’re not talking about hares and turtles but faster and slower hares. “Football speed” sometimes seems to mean only “speed in football equipment”, but its more useful meaning refers to how quickly, from the start of the play, an offensive or defensive player gets to where he needs to be. As broncobear nicely puts it:

Those players, like Smith and Bailey, who can diagnose plays with lightning quickness, are already moving to the point of attack before other players are out of their backpedal and they take angles that shave off time further.

That’s part of what he calls their skillset. hoosierteacher adds tackling, love of contact, agility, hands, knack for the position, and smartness. I’d add fast-twitch reflexes and information processing speed. Since a player is presumably doing his best in all of them, an abrupt decline one makes him less effective. I mention this because I remember watching Bly run right by Champ when they were chasing Larry Johnson on his 65-yard run, and it looked like Champ on that and other occasions was running stiff-legged. I suspect that for much of his playing time last year his equivalent 40 time was closer to 4.68 than 4.28.

If he’s fully healed Champ will probably be a faster and better CB than last year. Smith, whatever his “actual speed”, was good enough in his total skillset to be unusually effective. At any rate, broncobear gives 4.36 as his fastest 40 at the combine and adds that “[h]e just hasn’t learned how to maximize his speed in that drill consistently”, so chances are good he’s faster than we thought. Speed isn’t always what it seems to be.