Mile High Report: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Follow the @sbnation NBA Twitter List

A graphical view comparison of quarterbacks: debunking the myths.

Hey there friends and fellow fans, I was curious this morning upon watching Jamie Pukes and his low blow at Denver on yesterdays Horse Tracks. Well, since Jamie seems so hell bent that Jay Cutler is the second coming of JC and Kyle Orton is nothing but a cancer, I thought I'd make a graph comparing the two (We have a million comparisons already) but I also thought that I'd include the league averages and Matt Cassel's as well. What I found was not shocking, as we all already know this. Check it out. Forgive the small size, you may need to open the graph in another tab/window to get the tiny text.

 

Broncosbearscomparisonworking_medium

 

Now, I didn't include everything in the top graph because some didn't need a graphical look. The comparison between the players was exactly as I'd imagined: Pretty much the same. Yes, Jay Cutler threw more touchdowns and had more yards but he also threw more interceptions and his sack count was MUCH lower than Ortons. On the topic of sacks, I thought it'd be interesting to mention that Denver was tied for 1st in sacks allowed last year. The only team that had that low of a number was Tennessee. That's a fact that everyone seems to conveniently forget when it comes to crunching numbers. New England put up a staggering amount of sacks allowed last year at 47. What does that say for Cassel? He's tough. He still managed the game well and only threw 11 picks for the season. It's no wonder why McDaniels wanted/wants Cassel here.

 

One other thing that really pisses me off (pardon my French) is the idea that Kyle Orton can't throw the deep ball accurately. Yes, he has his shortcomings and he's definitely not at Jay's caliber in the deep throw, however Orton did not attempt the long pass nearly as much as Cutler did. Cutler is a deep throwing guy. That's what he's good at. It's fair to say he is better at it, but never forget that Orton is a quarterback in the NFL for a reason. If he wasn't any good at the deep pass, he wouldn't be here. Not only that but consider receiving talent as well. We have on average 3 deep threats on the field at any given time, Chicago had/has none.

 

This is not related to offense or passing at all, but it's something else that I know McDaniels took into consideration (since he cut almost every defensive player that was on last years roster). Turnovers are a big part of winning games. If you don't cause turnovers, your game becomes a shootout if not a blowout. Here's what I found for turnover differentials.

Denver was -17 (-1.1 per game) and ranked a pathetic 31st in the league.

Chicago was +5 (+.3 per game) and ranked a nice 8th.

New England was +1 (+.1 per game) and ranked 15th, pretty average stuff on T/O differential.

It's no surprise that most turnovers happen on interceptions, and most notably they happen in the secondary. Of course, a big factor in interceptions is pressuring the quarterback. Well, in the first 2 rounds McDaniels addressed both of those needs by choosing Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith. Ayers is known for being a good pressing guy and will do so in our defense. Smith, despite his size, is a ball hawk. I know he wasn't ranked that high on the boards, but it had nothing to do with his skill, it was his height.

 

What has history taught us about height and judging a player on it? It's pointless. In my last post I discussed my experiences being a short cornerback and why it really doesn't matter. Darrent Williams was a puny 5'8" and was on his way to being a Pro Bowl type cornerback (I won't say "shut down corner" because it's too tough to tell). If Denver can put good enough pressure on the quarterback, it won't matter how tall or short our secondary is, they always have an advantage if the QB underthrows or overthrows his ball due to pressure.

 

 

Thanks for reading, and let's talk about this!

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

3 recs  |  Comment 21 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

stats

Hmmm. I am not sure where you got your information, but according to Yahoo, in terms of touchdowns, the league average was 8, the leader 34 and Orton 18. This puts him well ahead of the average. The same is true of passing yardage (1,506, 5,069 and 2972). He is slightly below the average in rating (84.8, 156.2 and 79.6). I am not sure of the accuracy of these numbers or how they got them, but that is what they show. For Orton’s (qb rating) first 8 games he averaged 13.625th place ( a high of 3rd and a low of 21rst). His last 7 games he averaged 24.428th place ( a high of 16th and a low of 34th). You can see the fall off in production after his injury. Grossman was 21rst in his fill in game as an aside.

by yohimbe60 on Jul 4, 2009 2:10 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I got mine at Pro-Football-Reference.

I think the average TD’s was based on players that started more than 8 games (I think).

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 4, 2009 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's a direct link.

the stat I found was right under the division standings at the top.

PFR is a boatload of stats and I love it.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 4, 2009 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2008/

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 4, 2009 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to NFL.com...

Which is kinda who ya have ta go by, when it comes to stats, right?
The league average for TD’s (based on players who threw at least 14 passes a game)

Total TD’s thrown by 31 QB’s in 2008 = 582
Divided by 31
= 18.77
 KO threw 18 and was sacked how many more times? And threw less interceptions?
Anyway….

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 5, 2009 1:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man.

I miss DWill.

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Jul 4, 2009 8:30 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Me too

I was noticing on one of the autographs I have from him, on the ‘W’ of his last name, he made a 2 at the top left/beginnig of the W, and a 7 at the top right/end of the ‘S’… I am still pretty devistated about that whole situation…. Knowshon will honor the number coming from the other side of the field and hopefully give some big-name CB or Safety a hit like Atwater gave Okoye, and pummel on in fifty yards for a TD, to go down in history in contrast to the Atwater hit. Ahhh, well it’s already happened here, anyway… Alphonso oughtta pull some authentic mile high, Safety/Corner/Nickel-Back magic in his time with us!

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 5, 2009 1:29 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is aggravating....

That number of times sacked isn’t taken into consderation as much as it should be (or seemingly, at all).

Look at Cassell, that’s an excellent point. It is making me question reality more and more, how excited I am for this season to start, to see;
a.) How tight Our D is, and
b.) How great Our Offense will be with Kyle takin’ charge!

Great post calijoefornia! Definitely stoked the coals of anticipation some more!

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 5, 2009 1:38 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I think this year will produce less yardage gained overall,

but the points will be more. That’s interesting, and how much more will the OLine protect Kyle when it seems he has a better attitude. I just hope he becomes the team leader on the field and off. Good post joe.

by bfree2bronc on Jul 5, 2009 1:49 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you'd be surprised

we have the best O Line in the game. Period. No one can question it seriously and although I wouldn’t say they are perfect, I think they could seriously keep Orton protected and give up less than 10 throughout the year.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 6, 2009 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cutler created one sack by fumbling with no one around him

Wasn’t there one other based on a fumble? With better ball awareness, 10 sacks. Very doable

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 6, 2009 6:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

great post

and an intriguing way to present the data. thanks

rec’d

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.

Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by BShrout on Jul 5, 2009 4:42 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks a bunch BShrout!

And everyone else too, thanks for your discussion! I thought the sack count was just crazy. I know if I were sacked 47 times in 16 weeks, I’d be hurtin.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 5, 2009 8:32 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

somewhere on MHR I remember a comment

that it’s hard to complete a pass when you’re laying on your back.

Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.

Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by BShrout on Jul 5, 2009 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somehow Cassel figured it out.

with half the receivers we have.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 5, 2009 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't say half...

I would put New England’s receiver corp as one of the top in the league last year

by gOOn on Jul 6, 2009 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moss is good

I think Welker and the rest are only as good as the system they are in. You saw what happened (or what didn’t happen) to Deion Branch when he left to Seattle. He’s unheard of now.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 6, 2009 6:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting point, Joe

There’s a lot of back and forth – He’s only as good as his situation, the QB makes the receivers, the receivers make the QB. For what it’s worth, my experience tells me that a lot of guys are as good as the players around them – which is to say, very good indeed – and as productive as the system that they are in permits. Lots of players flourish in a certain system and die in others. It says more about the way that the coaches use them (and who does or doesn’t stay healthy so that they all get better or worse, depending).

Branch is a talented guy. He’s good for around 50 receptions and about 13.6 YPC nearly every year when he’s reasonably healthy. That’s the kind of guy that you want on your roster. He had a big year one year, but he’s very consistent and he’s a contributor in SEA. He was injured last year and only played in 8 games, so he put up 30 instead of 50. Not bad, you know? Just my thoughts.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jul 6, 2009 6:40 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You're right

I just mentioned Branch because he went from being an all star in New England to a relative nobody in Seattle. It’s even harder for him now that Housh is there. I love TJ’s play and I hope Seattle does something to address their quarterback need next year. Now that they aren’t in our division, I don’t feel bad thinking they have some good potential on their team. Their Super Bowl run a few years ago was nice and I feel they should have won that game.

Either way though, you’re right. A player is only as good as his system allows him to be. I’m a firm believer that receivers make the QB great. Judging on last years passing offense, that’s something I believe now more than ever. Cutler’s skill and adversity will be tested this year now that he has half the receivers we have. I don’t doubt that some of those guys will have a boost in stats, but I don’t think Cutler is the second coming for the Bears. I like the Bears, I even have an Urlacher jersey that I wear with pride because of his style and intensity on the field. Chicago is a proud city with a lot of similarities to Denver. Chicago fans are just as passionate as us, and I think if Cutler doesn’t fare well for them and acts like did in Denver, he’ll be outed from Chicago faster than he ditched Denver.

Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.

by Joe Medina on Jul 6, 2009 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand

I just don’t get it. YES Cutler has a strong arm, but WHY do people keep insisting that he was good at throwing the deep ball? He was pretty good his rookie year, but after that, he was average at freaking best. I bleed orange and blue. I live for the Broncos. I go to all the games. I can’t tell you how many times Cutler over throws or underthrows wide open WR’s that are more than 25-30 yards down the field. I can’t even pull up stats to show this, as if he throws a 10 yard pass and someone takes it to the house, or for a big gain, stats just show a 50 yard completion.
But I’m telling you, he misses so many open receivers that it’s maddening. I drank the “he’s a great deep ball thrower” punch for 3 years, and all 3 years, I looked like a fool for drinking that punch.
He has a strong arm, yes, but accurate downfield? No

2/3 of the world is covered in water
the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey

by Big_Pete1999 on Jul 8, 2009 10:56 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

MileHighReport(MHR) is the ultimate independent resource for the Denver Broncos on the web. Along with MHR Radio, the official podcast of MHR, we look to provide hardcore Denver Broncos fans positive, independent insight about the Broncos, 24/7/365!
Start posting about the Broncos »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Kirk_and_allie_small
UPON FURTHER REVIEW - Scouting The Steelers
Hillis_small
The Weekly "I'm Tired..." Rant
Cutlerjersey_small
The Broncos Success - Is it Orton or McDaniels?
Ward_small
Ask a Steelers fan
Img_0515_small
Part 2: Chapter 1 -- The Raven

Recent FanPosts

Broncos-1024x768_small
Holic's Week 9 Predictions...
Turtle2_small
RiG's week 9 picks ATS
Walter_small
THE LEGENDARY SECONDARY
Hillis_small
Is There Value in Losing?
Luff3_small
More Simmons Love...
Zoo_080_small
my midseason report
Royalwall-1_small
Welcome To Law (Pending Physical); Order Out of Whack in Las Vegas
Small
Broncos add Ty Law.
N1500960434_30298681_247_small
Broncos Agree to Contract with CB Ty Law
Lynch_coat_of_arms_small
Ascension

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

Arrowhead Pride
The Return of Two Chiefs Means Roster Moves are Coming
Stampede Blue
Saturday College Football- Open Thread
Bolts From The Blue
Saturday Speech with Coach Herman Boone

Getting Social With MHR

Facebook_badge_medium_medium
Black_generated_button

Milehighreport_email_medium

MHR Radio

SPONSORS

Web Stuff


iPing-it!

Listed on BlogShares

Sports blogs Sports Blogs
Top NFL Fan Sites
Best Football Sites

Rate Me on BlogHop.com!
the best pretty good okay pretty bad the worst

Top Blogs
Sports Blogs




General Manager/Head Coach

Milehighreport_small John Bena

Aristotle_small Jeremy Bolander

Asst. Head Coach

Mhr_small Steve Nichols

Lynch_coat_of_arms_small Tim Lynch

J_elway_870111_640_small Douglas A. Lee

Plato_bust_small Emmett Smith

Denver-broncos-button_small Ted Bartlett

The-big-lebowski_small TJ Johnson

Quality Control

800px-john_brown_painting_small mdierk