The Best Defense is a Good Offense
"Half the battle of getting where you want to go, is knowing where you came from." Anonymous.
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine in "X-Men: The Last Stand."
These two quotes came to mind as I've struggled to understand the 2008 season and the 2009 Reloading season. There has been a lot written about how poor our defense was. And while I am not willing to go on record as saying that it was anywhere near average, I'm also not convinced that it was as bad as it was painted.
I am of the opinion, and I believe I have seen other writers here at MHR put forth the same basic idea: that in at least some respects, our defense was victimized by our own offense, as much as by that of opposing teams.
In this article, I would like to look at the overarching view of what our offense did with the ball, and offer some conjectures as to how this might have affected the defense. Please note, the conjectures are from the viewpoint of the fan in the bleachers, rather than coming from one who has coached or played in a formal program.
Please note that the data presented below does not include that handful of drives in which we were attempting to run out the clock at the end of a half or game. The data was collected from the drive charts on the Denver team page at cbssportsline.com
Also, this article should not be read as an attempt to assign, nor absolve, blame. It is simply a looking back at what happened, in an attempt to understand how we got to where we are, and to better understand the choices that Coach McD has been making.
In 2008, our drives looked like this:
160 Drives
65 (41%) resulted in points being scored.
(as compared to San Diego (division winner) scoring on 48% of their drives and New England (point of origin for Coach McD) scored on 51% of their drives).46 (29%) ended in a punt.
49 (30%) were ended by a turnover.
46 (29%) of our drives were of 3 plays or less.
4 (9%) of these 3 or less play drives resulted in points.
26 (56%) of them ended with a punt.
16 (35%) of the 3 or less play drives were stopped by turn overs.
Clarification: "Turnover" is being used to refer to any drive which did not result in points or a punt. This would include interceptions, fumbles, turning the ball over on downs, safeties and missed FGs. Safeties are included because they stop the offensive drive, give points to the opponent, and give the ball to the opponent. Missed FGs are included because they stop the drive, and they shorten the field for the opposing offense.
85 (53%) of our drives took place in the 1st half.
75 (47%) came in the 2nd.
33 (51%) of our scoring drives occurred in the 1st half.
32 (49%) of our scoring drives occurred in the 2nd half.
26 (56%) of our punts occurred in the 1st half.
20 (44%) of our punts occurred in the 2nd.
26 (53%) of our turn overs occurred in the 1st half.
23 (47%) of them occurred in the 2nd.
24 (52%) of our 3 or less play drives occurred in the 2nd half.
As I looked at this data, a few things leapt out at me:
1)Over 1 out of every 3 drives required the defense to take the field after a turnover. The mental and physical toll of this on the defense must have been immense, especially as the season wore on and players may have begun to believe that their current defensive personnel and strategy were not going to be effective.
2)3 out of every 5 drives required the defense to take the field after either a punt or a turnover.
3)30% of the time the defense had to play on a short field. Adamriggs' article speaks in depth regarding the effects of this issue.
4)30% of the time, the defense had to return to the field after a rest of 3 plays or less. This strikes me as a major issue for a defense which was often described as fast but undersized.
5)The majority (51%) of our scoring occurred in the 1st half, while the majority (52%) of our 3 plays or less drives occurred in the 2nd half. Which gives the impression that the team philosophy was to score points in the 1st half, then go conservative and depend on the defense to keep the other team from scoring in the 2nd. If this was, in fact, the strategy, it was an utter failure given the fact that we led at halftime in only 5 games, and we won only 4 of those.
6)The most telling piece of data, IMHO, is the fact that we scored on less then 45% of our drives. This is a fine strategy for a team with a strong defense, such as Pittsburgh (who scored on only 38% of their drives). It does not work so well for an undersized defense who is working with their third DC in three years.
7)All of this put together helps me see the logic of Coach McD's reloading season moves with improved clarity. IMHO, McDaniels is dedicated to putting a winning team together much sooner than later. He evaluated our defense and laid out a timeline for improving it. He saw that the defense could not be fixed in a single season, and that the offense would not be sufficient to cover for the defense's weaknesses without significant improvement. Thus, Coach McD put into place a plan to improve the offense now, in support of the concept that, at this time, the best defense is a good offense.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
13 recs |
52 comments
Comments
Good work BShrout and rec'd
I totally agree with you. As has been pointed out here repeatedly, our offense wasn’t number 2, it was middle of the pack in the most important category – points scored.
McD realized there is more immediate potential on the offensive side of the ball. Thus the FA and draft picks we have. This offense is going to be innovative and aggressive. I think we’ll put up points in bunches.
by Ponderosa on Jul 8, 2009 6:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We see eye-to-eye on this one
As has been posted in MHR on many occasions, the team is exactly that — it takes offense, defense and special teams all functioning effectively.
And if one facet is struggling — as our defense has been — it’s up to the other facets to step up their game to allow the struggling facet to grow and develop. I believe that is the atmosphere of team that McDaniels is sponsoring by building up the offense, so that the defense can evolve without as much pressure on it.
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 8, 2009 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great perspective
and nice Dig. Thanks B.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 8, 2009 7:30 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Right On
I’ve been wondering if the defense is on the field more and have more plays against them giving opposing teams more film to see. Doesn’t that give advantage to opposing teams also?
When you add poor defensive coaching (as had been commented on many times) to all this, I believe the defense was much worse than its talent.
When I look at this years team on both offense and defense, the only weakness I see is the DL
Excellent research, I think its a powerful argument to your point.
by 3nS on Jul 8, 2009 8:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the turn of phrase
the defense was much worse than its talent.
I think that very true. I’m of the opinion that while our defense wasn’t particularly good, the perception of it was skewed by the way the NFL ranks offenses and defenses — yards per game amassed, and yards per game allowed. Such a ranking method fails to account for things like turnovers, punts, etc.
So we were stuck with a situation in which the defense was not as hopeless as it was portrayed (though I think it was close) and that perception was exaggerated by an offense which wasn’t as good as perceived.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 8, 2009 11:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see weakness at DL
— in fact, I see a big, mean, deep defensive front that will work as a rotating unit. I’m most concerned with OLB. But even there, we have plenty of folks competing, some I’m hopeful the bevy of “hybrids” we have will yield 3 or 4 guys who can play the position.
Ayers is a rookie, so I’m hoping we don’t pin all of our hopes on him; he, Reid, and Crowder are all big enough to move between a 3-4, a 4-3, and a 5-2. If Dumervil, Moss, and Ayers can both rush the passer and cover from the standing position, our defense will truly surprise this year, in my opinion.
I agree with you that our defense last year was worse than the talent — except for at safety and the middle linebacking spot. Which, when you think about it, explains the long runs moreso than a porous defensive line: they were undersized, sure; but they weren’t abysmal against the run. The real problem with last year’s front was that it couldn’t get pressure on the QB.
This year, our linebackers are as big (or bigger, in the case of Reid and Ayers) than many of our starting defensive lineman last season. Here’s hoping this new big front allows players like Moss, Dumervil, Ayers, Reid, DJ Williams, and Crowder to flourish as pass rushers / blitzers.
by JeffG on Jul 9, 2009 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember who it was that pointed out
that our defensive line problems may have been due to a philosophy which wanted the DL to tie up blockers and fill up the running lanes, allowing the LBs to make the plays, but our DL were too undersized to make that work.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the Bates system
It never worked and I don’t know what system we were trying to run after he left. The trouble was neither of the OCs did either.
by AlanC on Jul 9, 2009 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome post, man. Rec'd
I saw a lot of three and outs the last couple of years, it seemed they were especially prevalent in the second half, and while that is true (52%) it’s not as much as I thought. If we can let the defense rest a little bit, especially in the second half, I think our team will be immensely better for it.
by solace on Jul 8, 2009 8:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right all accounts.
We tried to score early and often, then the offense would inexplicably go conservative and the defense would drop into a prevent mindset, which resulted in the defense wearing down as the game/season went on.
Another evidence of this is the significant amount of weight lost by players.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 8, 2009 11:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post BShrout....
Its fun to know that we have less than a month to see how Orton, Simms, and the rest of the offense perform with pads. I agree that the ‘Best defense is a great offense’ ………I remember a time when we had a truly great defense and had to face Dan Fouts……….How that Charger team did not win a Super Bowl is still a mistery to me.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
by Mike Clark on Jul 8, 2009 9:22 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's chant
“Season, Season, Season”
Less than a month will seem like a year this time of year. LOL. Can hardly wait.
And I agree, I don’t know how Fouts never won a Super Bowl.
13-3 Baby!!!
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 8, 2009 11:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic coverage B once again.
It kind of closes the lid of doubt on the team not needing fixes of the O kind. What you illustrated could be seen in almost every game if people would just open their eyes and see the game as a whole instead of what they want to see. The major reason Bates and Slowik were soon to be idios amigos.
by bfree2bronc on Jul 8, 2009 9:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Perception rules
Unfortunately, IMHO, NFL teams are viewed through fantasy football lenses. Most fantasy football leagues put an inordinate amount of value on yardage — because it’s an easily measured statistic. Even the NFL itself uses that to rank offenses and defenses.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 8, 2009 11:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The entire Mike Shanahan Era
The majority (51%) of our scoring occurred in the 1st half, while the majority (52%) of our 3 plays or less drives occurred in the 2nd half. Which gives the impression that the team philosophy was to score points in the 1st half, then go conservative and depend on the defense to keep the other team from scoring in the 2nd.
Not only did we always start quickly and fade in games, we did that during the season too (Even during the Superbowl runs too). One of the things I was absolutely sick of.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Jul 8, 2009 10:32 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed -- it was time for a change
Over the last 10 years, it became increasingly obvious that the “Score early, score often then hold” philosophy which seemed to be the rule of thumb under the Shanahan regime, was not working effectively. Instead, the often gaudy offensive yardage led to a misperception as to how effective the offense truly was, and exaggerated the defensive issues, which led to an unstable situation on the defensive side of the ball.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 8, 2009 11:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That was a stagnant method. I believe that Shanny needed to adapt to a more current version of philosophy to survive in the NFL. Also, his history should prove that being a Head Coach AND a GM is not a job for one man.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 9, 2009 7:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good research
however, I think the numbers you have don’t represent the true picture. Football Outsiders compiles a number of very interesting statistics on teams, including drive statistics.
Last season Denver had 164 drives averaging 38.4 yards per drive. That was the best in the entire NFL. Ind gained almost a full yard less per drive, NO almost 2 yds less per drive and NE almost 3 less. Furthermore, Denver had the worst average starting position in the NFL at their own 25.85 yard line. Denver converted a set of downs into a 1st down or points 74.1% of the time; that was 4th best in the league. Denver was the best team at moving the ball down the field, but they also have to go the farthest of any team. While the O sometimes created their own troubles the defense really was that bad. Denver’s defense averaged starting at the opponent’s 30.2 yard line (16th) but they gave up 36.9 yards per drive (31st). Only Detroit was worse.
Even the scoring issue has become somewhat skewed. Denver scored 2.16 pts per drive, 9th best in the NFL. The Broncos were also 9th best in TDs per drive. While the offense was not as efficient in the redzone as some other teams, much of their troubles were that they got the ball with worse field position then had to drive farther than any of the other “top” offenses.
However, as good as they were in other offensive categories, they were equally bad at taking care of the ball. At 17.7%, only SF had a higher percentage of drives resulting in turnovers. Denver was 4th in Ints/Dr (11%) AND 4th in Fum/Dr (6.7%). Furthermore the QB and a particularly receiver accounted for half of all of the Broncos fumbles. Those TOs stopped drives, backed the D up, took points off the board, and in some cases actually put points on the board for the opposing team.
Denver’s D was as bad as it has been made out to be. At the same time, while the O was elite in most aspects, they were very careless at taking care of the ball. The good news is that, while we may not crank out as many yards next year, if we take care of the ball and the D improves just a little bit, we probably won’t need to crank out as many yards to put points on the board.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 9, 2009 7:35 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Field position
So is poor field position the result of poor defense or poor ST?
by 3nS on Jul 9, 2009 8:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what all of this points to
is how much a team is dependent upon all three facets of the team functioning well. Offense, Defense and Special Teams all contribute to the success/failure of the other two facets, and to the overall success/failure of the team.
The point of this article is to suggest that Denver’s struggles last year were not simply the fault of the defense. The offense was very good, the defense very bad, and the special teams somewhere in between the two. But I think there was a common misperception going on that the reason we failed is only because the defense let the offense down. IMHO, the offense also let the defense down on many occasions, most notably the turnovers you mentioned. Special teams aggravated the situation by not giving us good starting field position and not pinning the opposing teams deep.
I also wanted to make the point that the defensive issues were so extensive that there wasn’t a quick fix available. The unseen/unrealized offensive issues, on the other hand, were something which could be easily addressed. By “fixing” the offense (reducing turnovers, increasing red zone performance, increasing the number of drives that end in points, etc.) the defense is given the opportunity to be developed into a more efficient unit.
From what I can see, this has been Coach McD’s approach. By building a strong offense that scores more often, turns the ball over less and eats up the clock with long drives, he takes pressure off the defense and gives it the time it needs to develop.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should be better in all those categories B
and we should have a team with much more proficiency at scoring and holding a lead. This team is way better (and they haven’t had T/C yet) than last years team. At least on paper.
by bfree2bronc on Jul 9, 2009 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
therein lies the only spot, IMHO, for doubt
We’ve seen the plan, we’ve seen the logic, we’ve seen how it all SHOULD fit together.
Now we have to wait & see if it does come together that way.
IMO, it will.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Link
The Football Outsiders link took me to running mindfully.
by 3nS on Jul 9, 2009 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the link
I wasn’t disagreeing with you swg. I’m simply of the opinion that MSM oversimplified the issues regarding both our offense and our defense, and in so doing inadvertently created a false perception which most of us bought into, a perspective which does not hold up when researched — as you have done so well btw. A perception which, when looked at more clearly helps us to understand why Coach McD has been doing what he’s been doing.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
An offense that lacked discipline
I can guarantee that won’t be the case this year.
by Ponderosa on Jul 9, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
comment on Yards versus Points
The Outsider’s numbers you cite could both inflate our yardage and deflate our scoring at the same time. The 16th V. 2nd controversy could sliced in two, in Solomonic fashion, we were 9th best on offense. We were neither as good as the yardage statistic suggests nor as bad as the points statistic suggests.
My only problem now, however, is that we lost the T.o.p. battle in spite of our offensive proficiency, and we lost the red zone efficiency battle as well as the 4th down %. Our offense appears to be slightly better than our defense is bad when viewed in yardage. etc., but this could be inflated as suggested above, but we don’t seem to be controlling the clock or at least not controlling the run, which is probably the same thing.
Our T.o.P. – 27:02, Opponent’s T.o.P. – 29: 27 (listed as 24th here). (note: ToP from Broncos.com)
4th down % – Broncos: 4-10-40%, Opponents: 10-18-56%
Red Zone Efficiency – Broncos: 54.5%, Opponents: 60.0%
I think the turnover ratio is an important statistic for explaining these numbers but I can’t help but wonder if our reliance on passing V. rushing is also part of the story. We’re not as efficient as our opponents in scoring, nor in other measures of efficiency. I just don’t get the impression that it’s only because our offense had to work harder for points than the opponent’s offense. The points disadvantage still seems too large when compared to our advantage in yards. Perhaps not, but I can’t help but wonder.
Points – Broncos: 370, / Opponents: 448.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Broncos / Opponents
NET YARDS RUSHING -————————— 1862 / 2337
Total Rushing Plays -————————————387 / 469
Average gain per rushing play -———————— 4.8 / 5.0
NET YARDS PASSING -———————————- 4471 / 3656
Times thrown : yards lost attempting to pass : 620-74 / 496-131
Gross yards passing -————————————- 4545 / 3787
TOTAL NET YARDS -————————————— 6333 / 5993
Total Offensive Plays (inc. times thrown passing) – 1019 / 990
Average gain per offensive play -————————— 6.2 / 6.1
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 10, 2009 12:44 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think play selection plays a role in all of this too
I’ve been looking at where our plays fell (run vs pass, run left/right/middle, pass/left/middle/right, pass short/long). In the first four games, we seem to have been fairly balanced between passing and running, but the majority of our runs were largely to one side. Our passing in those same games seem to have fallen into the short left/or short right category. Still compiling the data on that one.
If we were showing a predominate tendency (such as running mostly to one side) by the time we hit mid-to-late season, teams would have been loading up to stop it — thus the large number of turnovers and lower t.o.p.
It would also explain the 29% of our drives that went 3 downs or less. Those drives would have also driven (pardon the pun) t.o.p. down.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 10, 2009 1:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
play selection
The number that jumps out at me is the receptions by RBs — 43 (Hillis=14, 12.8; Pittman=10, 11.2; Bell=10, 5.7; Hall=3, 8.7; Young=3, 5.3; Pope=3, 8.0).
It’s a bit of a quibble — I admit — but we weren’t spreading the ball around as much as needed. Moreover, Marshall’s 57% catch rate suggests — (as I’ve said before) — that we were forcing the ball into coverage on many occasions. And we know this from game observations.
Outsiders lists our passing efficiency as 7th in the league but our running game as #1, which is probably tilted because we ran less frequently. The suggestion is that we could improve our efficiency even more by spreading the ball and running more.
My emphasis is always on taking advantage of what the defense gives you, and it’s hardly a coincidence that I’ve liked everything I’ve heard about McDaniels from the beginning. Our offense was proficient but there’s still room for improvement. Little things like forcing the defense to come up to cover RBs may seem trivial but they open the field for the WRs. We were great (in terms of production) at hitting the WRs & TEs but our efficiency suffered somewhat in the red zone. We weren’t taking full advantage of what we can do and we were slightly predictable, especially in the red zone. It’s hard to call a Shanahan coached team predictable but I think our efficiency suffered when the field shrunk. Our reliance on a passing game to the WRs & TEs didn’t help us as much when close to the goal line. We needed to be less vertical at these points and work on our horizontal game, and also create some seems.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 10, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm with SWG - our defense was dreadful
Keeping with the Football Outsiders theme (new almanac has just gone on sale today by the way!) – Denver’s defence ranked 2nd to last in DVOA, and was actually one of the worst historically for some time. Only Detroit saved us from complete humilation.
Another great indicator of defensive talent is yards conceded per play – a stat that your offensive or special teams can make little difference to…. here we came 3rd from bottom – Detroit and the Rams propping up the bottom. We conceded a dreadful 6.1 yards per play.
As Emmitt Smith might say “Our defence debacled itself without any help from the offence”
But you are spot on in identifying that the offense was not entirely without blame. And I also agree that we should be improved in all three areas this season, injuries permitting.
by British Bronco on Jul 9, 2009 12:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying our defense was horrid
I’m suggesting that a part of the issue was fatigue (both mental and physical) stemming from too many series started after the offense either turned the ball over and/or went 3 plays or less and out (approximately 1/3 of our offensive possessions fall into that category.
More importantly, by looking at what the offense did (or didn’t do) and how that impacted an already dreadful defense, we can make sense of McDaniels’ choices in Free Agency, the College Draft, and College Free Agency. As many MHR posters have said, the defense will not be a quick and easy fix. By improving the offense, McDaniels makes us more competitive now, and buys himself some breathing time to improve the defense in the most effective manner possible.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
dang, hit a return too soon.
The major intent of this article was to help myself better understand McDaniels’ method.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
just realized that should have read
“I’m not saying our defense wasn’t horrid.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a thought
Yardage is nice but look at our ToP, which is poor. Normally we’d expect YG and ToP to go together. The issue of a worn out defense is pertinent here since it’s not yards but time, as in time between the last time the defense went on the field. The average starting position is important, too, since it makes the opposing offense’s job easier, but that wouldn’t increase the ToP of the opponents’ drives.
I can’t help but conclude that the relative disparity between our offense’s clock control and the opponent’s is the result of their being able to run and control the clock, or use a short ball control passing game, while we concomitantly could not, As I’ve said before, there is such a thing as scoring too quickly, and our problem was that we weren’t scoring efficiently while we also turned the ball back over too quickly.
"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas
by Colinski on Jul 9, 2009 8:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know...
I think if we were that bad, and we were, we shoulda gone for the record! Damn you, Detroit!! {grin}
Ah, gallows humor…
Being the worst can be a point to be proud of for some, believe it or not. I once worked with a guy (can’t recall the name right now) that played for the 0-whatever Tampa Bay Bucs. He talked about it like it was a good thing. Ummm, okay….
by AllBroncsallday on Jul 9, 2009 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point on the mental aspect B
Imagine playing in a scheme that doesn’t allow you to be aggressive and where frequent changes to the scheme have created a steady state of confusion. Now add in the lack of leadership on the sideline and on the field (especially after DJ and Champ went down). Now factor in an offense that moves the ball like a machine between the 20’s thereby creating hope but that invariably fails to score thereby crushing it. It’s no wonder that by the Sandyeggo game they had all but checked out. It’s also no wonder Bdawk was the first FA signed. That dude will crawl inside someones helmet if they fail to give less than 100% !!
"as in football so in life"
by asinsoin on Jul 9, 2009 4:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's put this myth to bed
the Broncos were very good at scoring points. Only 8 teams scored more touchdowns per drive than Denver; only 8 teams scored more points per drive than Denver. Even taking into account turnovers, they were still a top 10 offense. This stuff about the defense becoming discouraged because the offense didn’t score is pure mythology.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 9, 2009 4:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you average the entire season
By the end of the season (especially the last 5 games) they were hardly a top 10 Offense. I haven’t done the math on it so I could be wrong SWG but my guess is if you take the first 4 games out of the equation they’re middle of the pack.
"as in football so in life"
by asinsoin on Jul 9, 2009 4:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'm being misunderstood here.
I’m not saying that the offense wasn’t good. In most ways it was very very good. The only three real problem areas I can see the offense as having is:
1)Scoring on only 41% of our drives
2)Turning the ball over on 30% of our drives
3)Playing 3 downs or less on 29% of our drives
I draw two things out of those three statistics.
First, it would appear to me that those three things would have contributed to taking a dreadful defense and turning it into an abominable defense by not giving the defensive players the time to regroup mentally and/or physically.
Second, this seems to explain why McDaniels spent so much time and energy on the offense when our defense was so incredibly bad. In essence, our defense was so bad that the offense couldn’t cover the checks that the defense was writing.
So, knowing the defense was not a single season fix, and being committed to winning now, McDaniels addressed the problem areas on the offense, to at least reduce those three problems, in order to give the team time to improve the defense. In essesnce, he is making sure the offense can cover the defense’s bad checks.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 7:11 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
In other words
(since I hit the return key too soon) I’m not trying to diss the offense, nor excuse the defense. I was trying to understand why, if our offense was as good as it was, and our defense as bad as it was, did McDaniels focus so heavily on the offense.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 9, 2009 7:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you nailed it B
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Jul 9, 2009 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed KaptainK
That was the way I understood it.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 10, 2009 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It occurred to me as I was responding to Colinski's comment above
that just as I’ve been suggesting that our offensive performance exacerbated the situation for a pitiful defense (too many short drives, too many turnovers, too little time of possession, etc) it can also be stated the the dreadful play of our defense wreaked havoc for the offense (too many points given up, too long a time off the field to get into a strong rhythm, etc), and that the play of our special teams created problems for both the offense and the defense (starting drives too deep in our territory, giving the opposing offense too short a field, etc).
All of which goes to show that all three units have to be functioning at least adequately; or if one is below par, the other two have to step it up. And that didn’t happen in 2008.
Which, again, suggests to me the logic behind McDaniels’ choices — fix the easiest part first (the offense), with good time spent on the middle (special teams), and treat the worst feature (the defense) as a work in progress. Personally, I believe McDaniels’ has done a good job of addressing all three units. I’m still of the opinion that if our offense clicks well enough, it would only take our special teams and defense moving into the middle of the league (becoming average in other words) to have a successful year.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 10, 2009 1:51 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW
to: Ponderosa, KaptainKirk, 3ns, JeffG, AlanC, Solace, Mike Clark, befree2bronc, DarinH, SlowWhiteGuy, bchiper, Colinski, Allbroncsallday, and asinsoin (and anyone I might have missed scrolling down the comments section):
thanks for chiming in. You all have really helped me to crystallize the points I was trying to make with this post.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 10, 2009 1:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late to the party here
But if I had to sum up my thoughts:
Last year’s defense was bad, no way around it.
The offense had a ton of firepower, and were a threat to score no matter where they started. However, they had some flaws. Turnovers were an issue, and inexprience (by both the players and the play-callers) translated into sporadic efficiency. Those two issues exposed the defense even further, turning a bad defense into a historically-bad defense.
Special teams weren’t exactly helping here, either. Now the offense AND defense are in the hole a bit more and exposing more problems.
And it all became a vicious cycle, with a defense that had issues, a potent offense that wasn’t designed to take pressure off the defense, and average special teams. Around and around and around…
"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.
by Disco_Stu on Jul 10, 2009 10:37 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're exactly right DS
And it’s encouraging to me to see that McDaniels has made a strong effort to break the cycle, first by addressing the places where the offense struggled, second by bringing in personnel to improve the special teams, and third by taking the first steps toward improving the defense.
I think we’ll see a marked improvement in the offense. A good improvement in special teams play and an improved, though not great defense.
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 10, 2009 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was an excellent post B!
I have not been on for long enough to read some stuff, including this post, but I love the compilation of data here, similar to your other post with by-quarter-stats… That and the following discussion opens up some doors of the mind on my end as well. Thanks again BShrout and contributors!
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 10, 2009 5:24 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent stuff.
We just didn’t function as a cohesive unit last season. I think Coach has made some great moves so far. You guys are spot on. Fix the O and ST because they need the least amount of work and build the Defense over the next few seasons. I have never been this excited to see a pre-season game in my life. We’re just a few short weeks away.
Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!
by grind_core on Jul 12, 2009 1:47 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't hardly wait
It’s going to be a fun & wild ride this year.
13-3 Baby!!!
"The best defense is a good offense." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Jul 12, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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