Perspective on Orton's Abilities and Our New Offense

by sadaraine on Aug 10, 2009 11:10 AM MDT Comment 53 comments

After all the recent dissection of Orton's abilities and progress through training camp by both the MSM and fans in general, I thought it might be beneficial to share with you all my perspective on Orton and the direction of our new offense.

Everyone knows how hard this fan base is on our Quarterbacks. Everyone else wants to know how we are going to do with our "Cutler for Orton" trade.

Let me say this is all just silly talk. Here's my point of view and what I'd like everyone to take a minute to think about:

The offense we are implementing is one of the most complicated in the game today. It is complex and difficult to grasp. It requires many things of its Quarterback: timing, reading the defense, decision-making, and quick-thinking. Notice that no where in the list do I mention "strong arm" or "ability to scramble".

Kyle Orton is in his first year of learning this system. He is TRAINING right now so that when game day comes, he is able to run the offense and put some points on the board. He doesn't have a super strong arm. He does have experience in a spread out offense that requires decision making and has shown the ability to throw a check-down when nothing is there.

Add to this information what we know about Josh McDaniels style:

He puts extreme value on versatility in players
Every game plan he creates is custom-tailored for the opponent
He stresses TEAM over PLAYER and shows through his actions that he really means it

I venture to say that THE most important factor of how well Kyle Orton will be as our starting QB is what is his football IQ and how well has he learned the system. McDaniels isn't going to call plays that don't take advantage of our strengths and/or our opponent's weaknesses.

It isn't about how strong Orton's arm is...it is all about what kind of weapon Kyle Orton is capable of being. He may not be a broadsword, but I'll be a very VERY happy man if he turns out to be a Swiss Army Knife. Orton may not personally do the major damage, but McDaniels(Guyver) wouldn't be able to build the right kind of contraption to get us through our mission without a quarterback like him.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Accuracy is the most important attribute a quarterback can have,

as far as the arm goes. Other things he must possess are a great vision of the field and a decision making ability that eliminates mistakes. I believe Kyle possesses these skills and will start to show them when the season begins. A quarterback has to have a full cognizance of his surroundings and the heart to deliver.

by bfree2bronc on Aug 10, 2009 11:49 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

He'll also make mistakes, get picked, etc.

But so will Cutler, the Mannings, Rivers, Brady, etc. We’ll need patience and hopefully the O is broad enough that we don’t have to count on Orton to win games on his own. Go Broncs!

It's "just" football

by Donkhead on Aug 10, 2009 12:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

But he won’t throw INTs because he thinks his arm is God’s gift to football and keeps deciding to throw in to double and triple coverage. THAT is what I’m excited about.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 10, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

By no means

will he do it as much as Cutler, but he’s certainly not exempt from throwing bad passes.

Another thing to add for Orton: He has improved quite a bit in “pocket awareness.” Since his rookie year he typically knows when the pocket is about to break down. The problem with him is that he can’t evade quick defensive linemen.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 11, 2009 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's amazing

Less than two weeks into a new system and folks are judging performance? Tough crowd, Gracie, tough crowd….

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Aug 10, 2009 1:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

You're right, it's too early to tell whether Orton will be good or bad on gameday. I don't think that he's

a bad QB, it’s just the system is so hard to grasp. Josh made it sound like studying a dictionary would be easier than his playbook. I think Orton is still trying to find his groove. Once he finds it, it will be smooth sailing from there on out…hopefully. Plus, football isn’t just ALL PASS, a team can also run the ball if Orton is having a bad day. I think we need to worry a bit more about our defense than Orton and the rest of the offense.

And I do agree with all of your points sadaraine. Good post.

"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".

"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.

by broncoholic on Aug 10, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

An added not here

is that Orton is already quoted saying he already knows all the plays and feels comfortable with that knowledge. He just hasn’t ran and repped them 30-40 times, like he believes they all should. He may not get to do that before the season starts, but he surely will get to rep them against different defenses throughout the season. He’ll get it.

It's Orange Crush time. And no I am NOT talking about the soft-drink.
Which I beg the question: "Can liquid really be... soft?"

3 TE Set = 3 losses or less.

Do it MickeyD... 13-3!!

by USMCWall on Aug 10, 2009 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks man

Appreciate the feedback

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 10, 2009 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

LMAO...

by bfree2bronc on Aug 10, 2009 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDaniels(Guyver): of all the McNickname's I've read, I like this best.

Let’s hope Orton is Duct Tape, it makes anything work.

"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton

by odarol on Aug 10, 2009 5:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

There are alot of people including the msm who would love for Kyle Orton to stumble.

That way they can justify themselves in berating the Owner, the Coach, and the Player Kyle. They love to prey on the weak, and spank the meek. Shameless hussies!!!

by bfree2bronc on Aug 10, 2009 5:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

by NedBronco on Aug 10, 2009 5:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

We Called Chicago

Correct me if I"m wrong, but I’m pretty sure I heard the Chicago GM mention early on that he “received” the call from Denver. And I also remember that McDaniels said, when asked by ownership, that Orton was the quarterback he wanted.
If true, it amplifies all the comments above. McDaniels is now the Head Coach in no small part because he took two no-name, mediocre talent quarterbacks and “made”/allowed them to become superstars. Lets hope the same holds true for Orton.

by JRSIII on Aug 10, 2009 7:02 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I believe

Charlie Wies would be credited for Brady.

by rocko1 on Aug 10, 2009 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

???

Two no-name mediocre talents – are you putting Tom Brady as one of those?

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Aug 10, 2009 8:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Brandstater

Will be the next long term project fo McD…Watched him play at Fresno St. here in the Central Valley…He is smart, has had good coaching (Pat Hill), has prototype physic, and has all th tools to make all the throws…

Watch our boy become a man

by BroncoSense72 on Aug 10, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

No offense here, but I am rather tired of this

“every game plan is tailored for the opponent”, sorry, but every coach from high school through the pros tailors a game plan for a specific opponent. This is not some new revolutionary idea. Every coach will call plays that try to take advantage of our strengths and an opponents weakness. That is what good coaches do, and you generally aren’t an NFL coach for long if you can’t do that.

The real question doesn’t become can McDaniels call plays to take advanatge of Orton’s strengths, it becomes can he call plays where the defense doesn’t take advanatge of his weaknesses.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman

by Broncoman on Aug 10, 2009 8:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

To some extent you are correct....

but there is also a difference here. For example – under Haley Az came out with a 3-step drop game and tried to force defenses to adapt to it. Shanny came out with a ZB/1-cut running game (at least prior to this year) and tried to force defenses to adapt to it. It’s a philosophical approach that emphasizes a particular element of the game and then plans the attack based on how the defense adjusts to it. Shanny wanted to establish the run – Haley the pass.

McD’s approach is indifferent to any particular approach. He wants to stretch the defense out, make them defend the whole field, and exploit whatever gaps or weakness they expose. He adapts on the fly to whatever they do. If they put 8 in the box he passes. If they back off in coverage he runs. If they cover short he goes deep – cover deep he will dink and dunk. The difference is subtle, but profound.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Aug 10, 2009 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

SWG

Nice counter bro

"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx

by dmitchell624 on Aug 10, 2009 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not a counter

just a clarification. B-man brings up a valid point. At the end of the day, superior execution will beat superior scheme 9 out of 10 times.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Aug 10, 2009 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is

Having an offense flexable enough and a QB smart enough to be able to adapt at the line of scrimmage when you can tell what the defense is doing on that play.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Aug 11, 2009 8:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like your coaching philosophy:

Do the obvious thing! We’re hoping Haley is on that same train.

“If they put 8 in the box he passes.”

What a novel F’ing concept! Too many HCs overcomplicate things. Its amazing how many crises could be adverted by just doing the obvious, logical thing.

Coach Haley seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders. I doubt he’d call too many run plays facing a stacked box like Herm did. I certainly am hoping.

I could get more sacks with my sack

by ArrowSpread on Aug 10, 2009 11:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

That alone will probably get you guys a couple more wins this season. Man Herm sucked at playcalling.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 10, 2009 11:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just thinking about it...

Brings back all the bad memories… the flashbacks… Oh, the horror!

(scratches at his eyes and sobs uncontrollably)

I could get more sacks with my sack

by ArrowSpread on Aug 11, 2009 12:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those were the days

I really was hoping you guys would keep Herm around for another year. I loved seeing him drop the ball game after game. :)

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 12:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Haley

the chess match between him and LeBeau in the SB was a thing of beauty. Moves, counter movers, counter-counter moves. In the end the game was decided by a non-blitz.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Aug 11, 2009 7:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really!? Every high school and up coach does that!?

Wow…so how come there aren’t 15 teams scoring over 500 points a year and going undefeated? The proof is in the pudding Broncoman. Defenses haven’t been fearing New England because of Tom Brady and Matt Cassel. They have been fearing the New England offense. Look back to last year. Look at who had big games and when. They utilized multiple RBs for different situations. They still racked up passing yards with a 2nd stringer. The guy’s system is very solid and in my humble opinion much more potent than anything Shannahan has put on the field in recent years.

I simplified my statement…let me spell it out. McDaniels has to be in the top 3 of offensive football minds in the game right now. He EXCELS at identifying and exploiting weaknesses of the defense from a system and scheme point of view.

And another thing…if the defense starts adjusting to his gameplan guess what? He actually adjusts in-game and does something different. That will be a darn welcome sight to the play calling I saw from our team last year.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 10, 2009 11:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

let’s not count the chickens before the preseason is over

by lolcopter on Aug 11, 2009 12:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clarify your statement please

What chickens are you insinuating that I’m counting? I re-read my comment and the post and didn’t catch any chicken-counting going on.

The only thing I see that I counted on was Orton’s football IQ and familiarity with the system being the biggest two factors of his success.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 12:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDaniels has to be in the top 3 of offensive football minds in the game right now.

He EXCELS at identifying and exploiting weaknesses of the defense

He actually adjusts in-game and does something different.

he hasn’t even coached a single game yet. let’s just not get too far ahead of ourselves. don’t put the cart before the horse. the proof of the pudding is in the eating. etc. so on and so forth

by lolcopter on Aug 11, 2009 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDaniels has coached for quite a while now,

just not a head coach. I don’t know what his IQ is but I have heard that he has a mathematical mind and that can’t hurt especially when it comes to playing the odds. But I see your point, and asst coaching is alot different than head coaching. Just ask some of them who have tried it.

by bfree2bronc on Aug 11, 2009 12:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

FAIL

McDaniels has been a coach for a long time my friend. Look it up. I don’t reference New England’s past because of McDaniel’s dear ole dad working there.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 8:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

And BTW…this is all talking about our offense and Orton’s ability in it…don’t give me that “he’s never been a head coach before” junk. We already know he’s running the offense come game-day.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

I think this is a reasonable point. The head coach position is different than the OC. Some coaches make a successful transition between the two, but I don’t imagine it’s easy and there are, at least on paper, different duties to each position. I think you need look no further than our current DC, who has a very good record as a DC, but a rather abysmal record as a HC – and it’s not like his defenses were anything to write home about (just to continue cheap phrase spree) when he was a HC. Go Broncs!

It's "just" football

by Donkhead on Aug 11, 2009 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the sentiment that good Coordinaters aren't always good HCs

But trying to insinuate that the has something to do with Kyle Orton’s performance in our offense is (IMMHO) silly in this instance. McDaniels is going to run the offense. The overall wheels may indeed fall off the wagon, but my bet is it won’t be because the offense isn’t being coordinated well.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right about Josh calling the plays on O

I wonder if some time during the season that he might turn the reigns over to McCoy??

by bfree2bronc on Aug 11, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It will be interesting to see what happens

I bet if things are going really good half-way through he may.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

But he is learning McD’s offense as well…They will likely gel at some point though…Hopefully sooner rather than later

by BroncoSense72 on Aug 11, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Billicek

never let his OCs call plays the first year. Next year he’ll probably call plays

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Aug 11, 2009 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

my comment has nothing to do with orton. you just need to cool your shit before you end up becoming the polar opposite of mcgeorge. let’s let the guy coach a few games before we crown him king or run him out of town. that’s all.

by lolcopter on Aug 11, 2009 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with your opinion

But not the way you stated it – let’s stay on the high road here. Go Broncs!

It's "just" football

by Donkhead on Aug 11, 2009 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

fwiw: not meant to be a personal attack at sadaraine at all. just trying to bring some of mcgeorge’s contrarian nature to the table without all the doomsday pessimism.

cautious optimism is the kool-aid i sip on.

by lolcopter on Aug 11, 2009 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry you are feeling so defensive

But you need to cool it bub. Just because I disagree with you and call you out on it doesn’t mean you need to curse. This is a family friendly site and IMO it should stay that way.

You must not be understanding the words that are coming out of my posts.

HE HAS COACHED A FEW GAMES.

I’m not running him out of town. I’m not crowning him king. You said I was counting chickens about McDaniels. Well, to clarify for you, yes. Based on his PAST performance, I’m expecting his offense to be very complex and very dangerous. I see no evidence to think otherwise.

The clear point I’m making in this is that the best indicator of Orton’s success will be his football IQ and comfort with McDaniel’s system.

You are the one that seems to be trying to put words in my mouth. If you don’t like being called out, then don’t do that. Ask me what I mean instead of just making stuff up.

By the way…I’m waiting for you to back up whatever point you are trying to make. You are saying he hasn’t coached. I’m saying he has. Explain.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

broncoman’s original point about every coach having a strategy or gameplan tailored to an opponent is valid. that’s my original point. of course, it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. not serious. playing around with you. obviously not that easy to do.

McD has a great system that was run by a great team. there is no evidence this will be an easy transition for our broncos, so let’s see them play a few games before we start putting our rookie head coach in the “top 3 offensive minds of football” group. especially given that this is his FIRST HEAD COACHING POSITION AT THE NFL LEVEL.

again, nothing personal. this isn’t meant to be defensive. you asked for a civil response, and i hope i provided one. go broncos.

by lolcopter on Aug 11, 2009 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Groovey man

I stand behind what I said. He is in the top 3 of offensive minds of the game today. That isn’t something we need to wait to see how he does as a head coach before it can be said. He has already shown the ability on that side of the game.

To each his own though. I know my point has been backed up.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's alot better than having all our ducks in a row.

Every coach has a system they live by with a variation of certain aspects of that system. Coaching alot of times is liken to a chess match and how they out wit each other.

by bfree2bronc on Aug 11, 2009 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

love the post

especially the mcguyver and swiss army knife analogies……couldn’t agree more. Its not like Orton is Pennington….he can still threaten with the deep ball. Even if he was Pennington, I still think this offense and McD can come up with the schemes to score with Pennington limitations on throwing the deep ball at QB

by BideshiBronco on Aug 10, 2009 10:38 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the post = )

I think Orton’s more of a Leatherman – a bit more hard core and practical than a Swiss Army…. By the end of the season, I hope to be calling him a Samurai in this sense!!!

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Aug 11, 2009 9:24 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice

Leave it to a PJ fan to come up with the Leatherman reference. LOL

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Aug 11, 2009 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs