I actually feel good about this post. Check it out.
by Joe Medina on Aug 16, 2009 11:48 AM MDT
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PrintHow's everyone doing on this Sunday afternoon? Great I hope! Hey guys (and gals), I've been trying to absorb as many different opinions as I can about the game Friday night and so far it's a mixed bag. Around these parts, it's mostly positive, but elsewhere it's a very grim tone. So with all opinions considered, I present (yet another) possibility as to what the heck happened on Friday night with Kyle Orton.
First things first guys, let's get it out of the way quick. Kyle Orton didn't perform so hot. Maybe there's a reason for it, maybe there was a bigger meaning behind it all. I'll explain my reasoning why Orton's struggles actually are a good thing for him, us and the team in general. I don't know how to do the "jump" but read on and pretend like there's a jump here:
-------------------------------------------------THIS IS A JUMP!-----------------------------------------------
Ok, so here we go, this is entirely my opinion and I'll defend it until some very logical facts prove my point otherwise:
Kyle Orton struggled because McDaniels was throwing difficult stuff at him from the get go. When you're learning a new offensive playbook, it's bound to take time. No one ever said it was easy. However, some of the plays in that playbook are easy--which is what Simms got to work with in the second half. The more difficult stuff is (from what I can tell) pretty freakin difficult. I think McDaniels was giving Orton some of the most difficult stuff he had in the book so he could gauge his knowledge thus far.
Remember, when Brady went down last year, it took Matt Cassel around 5 games to really get into a groove. That groove he got was to the tune of McDaniels playing the easier stuff in his playbook--the stuff that worked to Cassel's strengths. Much like Chris Simms in the second half on Friday night, Matt Cassel got the easy half of the playbook to work with. Tom Brady is the guy that knows the hard stuff and knows it well. Even Tom Brady had a hard time getting the hang of it too. Remember, when Drew Bledsoe went down in Brady's second year, the offensive playcalling of Charlie Weiss was also "dumbed down" to accomidate Tom Brady's strengths and avoid his weaknesses. If you're curious about that, go look at some clips from that year. It's nothing personal against Brady, Cassel or Orton either, it's just a playbook that requires time to get mastered.
Let's talk more about Matt Cassel, because he's the most recent example of the playbook McDaniels runs with. In Cassel's first 5 starts, he was 3-2. He had a 60% success rate while McDaniels was adjusting things to suit his strengths more. In that 5 game stretch, Cassel and the offense outscored opponents 113-106. That's not a really large difference. Now let's go to the last 10 games of the season: Cassel and the offense: 280 and opposing defenses: 193.
Let me reiterate that:
Cassel's first 5 games the Patriots outscored teams 113-106. That's pre-adjustment and mid-adjustment.
Cassel's last 10 games (post adjustment): 280-193.
So, what does that say about McDaniels playbook? Well it tells me a few things. It says first and most loudly that this playbook is made to be very friendly to a quarterback of ANY skillset. The next thing I notice is that playbook has enough plays to last you all year and keep defenses guessing. That's a welcome change from last year when I could swear our playbook was about as thick as a tourists pamphlet for the Glenwood Canyon. One other thing and perhaps the most important thing that I noticed is this playbook is made to push a quarterback to another level--a playoff level--as the season goes on. New England won 5 of their last 6 games last season which tells me the playbook works down the stretch. Perhaps that's a big reason why our team gave away a 3 game lead in the division, our playbook simply sucked. More than the playbook sucking, the play calling sucked badly. Blame it on the running game if you want, but Denver's running game ranked 12th in the league--11 spots ahead of the Super Bowl Champion Steelers.
What I'm saying everyone is this: Yes, Kyle Orton struggled, but it's going to happen this early on. What's important is now McDaniels knows what Orton's capable of, and what he already knows in the system. Orton's tried the suit on, it doesn't fit right now, so the tailor McDaniels will take it in for some adjustments around the chest and maybe trim up the hems a bit, then we'll try it on again next week and see how much we need to adjust the jacket.
Catch my drift?
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Joe
I am with you, man. Bring back the lemmings from the ledge! Good post.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Amen californiajoe
I really feel like we have something special going on with coach McDaniels. We may not be a playoff team this year, but the broncos are going to be force in the NFL for a long time!
Joe...You do get "IT"
And I am in totall agreement with your analygy…I appreciate your thoughts and the way that you present them…I too am excited to see how McD manages the process and evaluations, the changes and adjustments, and ultimately the personel decisions that will get us to having the best Team possible on the field when we get to show time…
Thanks…Rec’d
I'm with you joe and it's off to La La Land we go!!!
Move cursor below the jump and left click on then start typing again, cool?
I tried that but it doesn't work...
I use the “Visual View” not HTML though. Whatevs.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Well said, Joe!
You have a great grasp of what is going on. After reading many of the post game comments on MHR, I was ready to quit reading the idiot comments for good. I could only wonder what had happened to many of the member’s brains.. perhaps a little too much Colorado Koolaid? You rescued me.
We all need to remember that this is a learning season; not the REAL season. Either Orton or Simms will step up when they have learned the system.
Thanks, again for a great and timely post . Rec’d, of course!
" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "
First String and Second String Differences
Thanks for the insight CalJoe. Here’s my take on your post: McD has chosen to go with Orton as the guy and Sims as second in command. So, he’s going to groom each of them differently. Orton needs to be tested, given the whole playbook, and challenged. McD needs to see what Orton needs to work on and since Orton is going to be the man he needs the whole playbook. Now, Sims is the number 2. The number 2 is a different role than the number 1 and so it makes sense to do different things with different roles. As a backup, Sims doesn’t need to know the whole playbook. He needs to know enough to be a good number 2. There’s only so much time and coaches available to go around. Most of the focus is going to go to the starter. So, yeah they are going to push everybody to be the best they can in the role you see them in, but the role of the starting QB in the NFL is given much more attention, more detail, more time and more coaching because it is the most important role on the team. So, Kyle Orton is probably given a more complex playbook, or at least more of a responsibility for knowing more of it, and will be challenged and pushed more by the coaches. Thus, he will probably make more mistakes. Good. Make mistakes. Learn in the preseason. Let McD push these guys around to the point of breaking them so that he can go back to the drawing board and fine tune from there.
No no no benny,
Mcdaniels isn’t going to play down his playbook for Orton. If anything it will get more and more difficult for opposing defenses to decipher. Orton will get it but it will take some time.
I would be surprised if McD didn't dumb down the book to a level Orton is comfortable with,
at least once the season begins.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
by jibbons on Aug 16, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd that comment, jibbons
It was interesting to see how much McDaniels wanted to challenge Orton in the 1st preseason game. When they count, he’s going to be calling plays that give Orton the best chance to perform. Right now, he’s trying to give Kyle the best chance to learn and develop, which is a very different goal.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Kyle is no dummy he will get it, but it will take time.
McDaniels is sure to understand that fact if his playbook is that complicated. Wisdom and understanding come from learning and Kyle will learn in time. In a year or so people will look back at all of this controversy concerning the coach and shipped off QB and say the Broncos made wise decisions.
by bfree2bronc on Aug 16, 2009 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
" I would be surprised if McD didn't dumb down the book ..."
But then, he’ll smart it back up as the season progresses.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
From The Big Law, by Chuck Logan
by bradley on Aug 16, 2009 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure I agree
…that McDaniels is going to dumb down the playbook because of some pre-season miscues. Why do that when it’s better to try to fix the miscues with coaching, and for Orton, with the familiarity that comes with time and reps.
The way I see it, Orton’s problem was information overload, coupled with a pocket clock that hasn’t yet been set to Denver offensive line time.
But the information is not such that it needs to be dumbed down. Orton has to make better decisions in certain packages against certain defenses, sure; but he also needs time and practice with his receivers so that they’re making the same reads he is.
He has a month to keep learning and improving and getting on the same page with his offensive teammates. Which is why Marshall needs to get out there.
None of Orton’s INTs really bothered me, because none of them showed me something he can’t do: the first was on a good play by Clement and on a misread of the defense (Orton led the receiver; the receiver correctly sat in zone); the second looked like a miscommunication between Stokely and Orton (Orton expected Stokely to cut inside Bly); and the third was just a lazy throw that, with 3 more inches of height on it, becomes a 20 yard gain. And as I said elsewhere, it’s not like anyone except the most ridiculous of Orton critics truly believes that a guy who could throw the ball 74 yards coming out of high school and who racked up all those yards at Purdue can’t actually throw the ball 15 yards in the air.
McDaniels may simplify the play calling next week, but then again he may not — it may just appear that he does because Orton is picking up on things.
Because nothing I saw tells me Orton can’t run the offense he was asked to once he has it down better, I’m hoping McDaniels doesn’t start pulling back. In fact, I’d like to see him continue to pile it on once Orton makes the corrections in practice.
Get ready for the regular season by using the pre-season games to iron out the problems.
Well, I didn't mean it like that.
McDaniels isn’t dumbing it down permanently. He’s not going to use the most advanced stuff now that he knows where Kyle stands in the playbook. He’s still got a lot to learn as we saw. So maybe now McD knows exactly where Kyle’s at, and he’s going to adjust the playbook to work with what he already knows, and then add more complicated stuff every week to keep defenses guessing. I didn’t mean it to come across that he will dumb it down permanently. He didn’t have it dumbed down all year last year with Cassell, he just used simpler stuff right away to play Cassel’s strengths and avoid his weaknesses which could have been reading coverage and making quick decisions under pressure. Instead of expecting him to make the plays that Brady made, he put him in position with plays that were much more simple, but still just as effective given his depth in the playbook. As the season goes on and Cassel gets more and more comfortable in the system with the full playbook, then add more stuff in that he probably never knew existed.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
I watched the replays over and over
Orton made mental errors on the 1st and 3rd. He didn’t neither zip the ball nor throwing the ball safely away from DB on the 1st one. Either one would leave the DB empty. I agree with you Jeff, on the 2nd INT. The 3rd INT is also his mental error to correctly gauge the distance of the DB position to the trajectory of the throw. He did fine on these throws before so I think that in addition to information overloaded, Orton is also more likely rusty. This will change when more games are played.
Words can fool men but Nature doesn't give a damn!
Orton's first INT
Graham had reached his spot in the end zone, when Clements started to move away from Graham and toward the sideline. Clements pushed off from his right foot, and just then (you can see) is when Orton started his throw to Graham. It seems clear that Orton thought that Clements was going toward the sideline to cover the Bronco that was over there
Just as Orton started his throw to Graham, Clements’ left foot came down, and he used it to reverse course, and got back in front of Graham in time to make the pick. I think Clements (a pretty good CB) suckered Orton on that one – the other Bronco was already covered, so no reason for Clements to go there. But Orton saw him start to move away, and in the nano second he had to make a decision, started his throw. Real good play by Clements.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
From The Big Law, by Chuck Logan
i'm with Ya Cali!
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Dumbing down
is relative. Could it be that McD’s offense at 80% is still more complex than most of the other offenses out there? McD has said that he’s got some ideas to implement that have never been seen in the NFL before. I don’t think he means simply a new formation or grouping. I think he means a new approach, a new concept, a new system. I think he has thought about the NE system and has an idea for how to take it to the next level, and I don’t think we’ve seen it yet.
I think Orton not only needs to learn the standard McD offense, he then will need to learn the one McD still has up his sleeve. Time will tell.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Aug 16, 2009 3:31 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Great post! I'm not making a judgement on KO until the first preseason game.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
"Kyle Orton struggled because McDaniels was throwing difficult stuff at him from the get go"
BINGO. I was thinking this as it was happening.
Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!
Remember Orton was a top 10 QB for a 6 week string before he got hurt last year
This was in a very simple pass offense since Chicago had 2 TEs (who they rarely sent out on the same play) and a PR for passing threats. Taking him to the next level will be a challenge and the number of times he locked on scares me. McDaniels offense predicates a knowledge of the defense to make a smart progression. Hopefully Orton is focusing on that doing well and needs to start looking at 2, 3, and dump.
Good post CJ
Keeping the right perspective for a preseason game is essential. These games are nothing more than full dress rehearsals, we just need to learn as much about the new systems and players as we can and enjoy the opportunity to see how the new coaches operate.
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
by Arctic Bronco on Aug 16, 2009 8:56 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
In hindsight of the initial post, thanks to Arctic Bronco's idea.
This is nothing more than a full dress rehearsal. That idea seems to be lost in the firestorm the MSM is making the first game out to be. It’s just a formal rehearsal and nothing more. These games aren’t played to win right now, just like when I was in band, we’d have a full dress rehearsal every wednesday afternoon, just to keep movement sharp in our uniforms. The first few weeks of mid-week dress rehearsals were tough since we were still learning the drill and playing within the drill added to it didn’t help. But, these full dress rehearsals made for a better season when it actually counted and we wound up winning first place all around the board the first year we did it. Band and football aren’t too different. All the conditioning and full pad practices are making these guys tough as nails and believe the hype when people say the Orange Crush will return in all it’s glory. If not this year, it will happen in 2010 to the full effect.
Great comments guys and thank you for the positive feedback!
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
think you're right on the $$
a big rec’d….I hope he is right about how much media and fan pressure Orton can handle. If so, we are gonna have a great year!
Feeling good!
Califijoenia; good analysis of a very difficult play book and what to expect like it and feeling good too. After watching the post game interviews I came away thinking that McDaniels isn’t too worried about Orton’s progress, and the real test is for Orton and Stokely to get on the same page against Seahawks. The reason they call it “training camp” some of the best teaching since Joe Collier days. McDaniels is organized and has his plans evolving day by day in training camp. Feeling good about the team!
oc60
Good insight
The defense “carried” Brady through his first year as a starter (2001-02) a number of times, and a lot of people forget that part. Nothing at all against Brady. He was in the ultimate learn-as-you-go program, where the first thing he learned is that being the understudy, knowing the playbook and working his butt off is still no match for actual playing experience in the NFL.
With Orton it’s a bit different, in that he has game experience but is learning a new team’s system with new players and a whole different offense. He’ll get it. McDaniels wouldn’t have brought him in if he didn’t have confidence in his ability, and he’s a terrific QBs coach.
Keep the faith!
Totally awesome
thanks
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
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