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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

Marshall's Worth


First let me state how I love this website.  Regardless if I agree or disagree with some of the posts, I have an arena where I can share insight, ideas and discuss Bronco football.  With all that being said, I like to share my opinion on Brandon Marshall's worth. 

His body of work in his three years as a Bronco.

Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles
G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2008 Denver Broncos 15 15 104 1,265 12.2 47 6 2 -4 -2.0 7 0 4 3
2007 Denver Broncos 16 16 102 1,325 13.0 68T 7 5 57 11.4 24 0 3 1
2006 Denver Broncos 15 1 20 309 15.5 71T 2 2 12 6.0 6 0 1 0
TOTAL 226 2,899 12.8 71 15 9 65 7.2 24 0 8 4

Very impressive indeed but I find a few things troubling.  Now in an interview from a few months back, Marshall had admitted that he had issues staying focused during the course of last year.  This was tough for me to understand let alone comprehend because he was playing in his third season meanwhile rookie Eddie Royal fooled the entire NFL as he performed beyond all expectations.  I bring this up because I don't believe Marshall will be successful in just any scheme (not sure what system was run in Central Florida where he played).

In order for Denver to truly get full value for Marshall, he'd best be suited to stay within a West Coast Offensive scheme where only the terminology and minor details will be required of him while the fundamentals are still in place.  This excludes the Giants, Jets and Titans as potential trade partners.  I think teams such as the Eagles (don't need WR), Texans (no need), Packers (no need) and Vikings (no need-unless Farve needs) would be ideal locations.

Brandon Marshall's stats could be better in my honest opinion.  CBs figured out a habitual pattern from Marshall, normally after a catch he takes a step back as if he's anticipating the CB to over pursue.  What defenses started to do was simply wait for this signature move and then converge.  I don't know about the rest of the community here but if you catch 100+ passes I'd expect 10+ touchdowns.  I like to think that for every ten passes caught one should result in a touchdown.

Now what is Marshall's worth?  First player that comes to mind is Roy Williams of the Dallas Cowboys who has caught a total of 281 passes and 30 touchdowns (1td per 10 catch formula).  I don't think both players are similar in performance or style but what Dallas paid Detroit for Williams' service are what interest me.

The proposal.  This year's 1st and 3rd and next year's 3rd.  The second 3rd can go up to a 2nd round selection in the event Marshall leads the team/league (can be negotiated between clubs) in yardage/reception/touchdowns or all.  If Brandon Marshall leads the team to either a Super Bowl or selected as NFL MvP, it would then change to a 1st rounder selection.  This is clearly a means of ensuring Marshall what Denver's evaluation would be of his talent combined with his potential given his short body of work in the NFL.  I also think its fair to say that if the deal falls apart, the agent will know that it was a fair approach on Denver's side to accommodate Marshall's attempt at a trade.

In closing I'm disappointed in Brandon's approach heading into this off season after Shanahan was replaced by McDaniels and Jay Cutler traded back in June 2nd.  I understand that management will employ an atmosphere, culture of selfless athletes striving for greatness through healthy, tough competition.  Marshall is not prepared for this regime or the expectations that most on the team have already committed too.  I also like to thank Bena's article for the inspiration to share this opinion.  I for one believe, if not know, that Marshall had quit on Denver it just wasn't apparent to all because of the trial looming.

Has Brandon Marshall quit on the Broncos?

Poll
Can Brandon Marshall be as productive outside of the West Coast Offense?
A. Yes, 80+ catches 8-12 touchdowns.
36 votes
B. No, 65+ catches 4-8 touchdowns.
30 votes
Opinion followed in comments.
1 votes

67 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 23 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I find myself wondering

if other teams will look at Marshall’s work ethic when considering value.

If I’m not mistaken, since being drafted, he has yet to show more than minimal participation in OTA’s and Training Camp. His response of laughing off missed training time because he sees it as just camp, makes me wonder if he’s willing to put in the effort to take his play to the next level.

If I were a coach (something I’ve never done other than coaching college intramurals), his attitude towards the off-season would be a huge issue.

"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by Brian Shrout on Aug 19, 2009 2:54 PM MDT reply actions  

man....

we talkin’ bout practice!

by dr.mort on Aug 19, 2009 6:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm well aware of that

but I know that McDaniels wants to see players practice like they will play in the games. I cannot help but think that at least some other coaches hold the same attitude, especially when it comes to learning a new system, something that Marshall has admitted he is far behind on.

"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by Brian Shrout on Aug 19, 2009 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

system vs. production

first of, Marshall went to central florida, not southern. though i dont know what offensive system the used.

i think there are certain players who may preform better in certain systems. but i believe that any player with talent has the potential to play well in any system. of course that takes hard work and dedication, something that i am not sure b-marsh has right now.

by crazy_urn on Aug 19, 2009 2:58 PM MDT reply actions  

CFU

Thank you for the correction. Didn’t even realize I wrote South.

Say hello to my fast...

by dcrespo7 on Aug 19, 2009 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Systems can be different for QBs

but no matter the system, recievers run routes and catch passes. He has to know what is called and if the QB changes it at the line of scrimmage. There should be no signicant difference once the terminology is known and he understands what it is that he is supposed to do.

But any system takes work and dedication to make a difference.

I thought the Jets were running a WC offense, at least last year.

by AlanC11 on Aug 19, 2009 3:04 PM MDT reply actions  

I think the Jets were running a train

right into a wall last year.

"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu

by Joe Medina on Aug 19, 2009 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Train

And Minnesota got on that train and is finding another wall for it this year.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Aug 19, 2009 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

The good news for us though...

the wall they hit will be after they make a couple stops in Chicago to lay a beat down on the bears.

"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu

by Joe Medina on Aug 19, 2009 4:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not quite true

some systems require very precisely timed routes – e.g. WCO, because the QB actually throws before the cut.
some systems require the receiver to get separation after the cut because the QB waits until the cut has been made.
some systems require the receiver to get to a precise spot on the field because the QB is reading the coverage not the receiver; this requires precise route running.
some systems require the receiver to read the coverage and adjust the route on the fly; close coordination with the QB is essential.

so there are subtle but profound differences between systems. That’s one of the reasons why a receiver may look unstoppable for one team, then disappear with another.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Aug 19, 2009 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

By the way..

Does anyone know hoe much he got paid that first year for those 20 catches?

The trouble with most contracts for rookies is that they are weighted to put the guaranteed money in the first few years, and then pay less on the back side. So when you are discussing his pay this year, it misses the point of the value of the whole contract. I doubt that he gave any money back in the first year because he was paid more than what he produced. Just a thought.

by AlanC11 on Aug 19, 2009 3:07 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

good point

But who will guard the guards themselves?

by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 20, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Around the Horn

All of the participants are backing up the Broncos on their decisions thus far in regards to BMarsh.

Woody didn’t make it to the second round of discussion. It would have been interesting to hear his side of things.

Jay Marriotti just labeled BMarsh as the biggest trouble maker in the game………dubious distinction, no?

by prototype on Aug 19, 2009 3:24 PM MDT reply actions  

I Rec'd this post

because of the research and solutions offered. This is not unreasonable. I don’t have an opinion on whether Marshall can be better or worse. I am just ready for him to go. Good Job Dcrespo.

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."

by KaptainKirk on Aug 19, 2009 4:05 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

I rec'd it cause

I think Marshall is greatly over-rated. But I think this discussion is so much more rational than the others regarding what he is worth.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Aug 19, 2009 4:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Blockquoted paragraph This is clearly a means of ensuring Marshall what Denver’s evaluation would be of his talent combined with his potential given his short body of work in the NFL. I also think its fair to say that if the deal falls apart, the agent will know that it was a fair approach on Denver’s side to accommodate Marshall’s attempt at a trade.

If what deal falls apart? It’s not really of importance what Denver would like to get out of a Marshall trade.

A team could likely get an Anquan Boldin for the draft picks you suggest. They’d surely not make Marshall their first choice of all the troubled/diva receivers who are either on the market or who want to be. Brandon’s really pretty worthless to Denver and to other teams until he changes his attitude, applies himself, proves his hip is good, and stays out of jailhouses and court rooms for a few months.

by Alex on Aug 19, 2009 5:47 PM MDT reply actions  

RE

I guess I should have stated that “if a deal were to be made and not fall through”. I won’t compare Marshall to Boldin simply because they present different skill sets. I think we as fans sometimes imagine that any WR can go to any team/system and do just as well. It’s not like that all.

To state that Marshall is worthless to Denver seems shortsighted to me. He has the skill set to build on what he has accomplished thus far into his career. The challenge for him is to bring it all together and that would start w/an improved training habit along w/maturity growth.

In the mean time, I hope what I was able to gather from last year’s trade and the upside of Marshall on sheer athletic ability and three year’s worth of work in the NFL as a starting WR (two years actually). The major hurdle for both Denver and Marshall is to find a partner capable of signing him to a deal similar to White of the Falcons.

Say hello to my fast...

by dcrespo7 on Aug 19, 2009 8:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Has anyone else wondered

just how realistic it is to say that Marshall could get a better deal from many other teams, when only 1 team (the Jets) has been mentioned as being interested in him?

"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by Brian Shrout on Aug 19, 2009 5:52 PM MDT reply actions  

In this offense

Marshall will be comparable to Randy Moss. I think he fits the offense and that it would be better with him but he will no longer lead the team in receptions.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Aug 19, 2009 6:09 PM MDT reply actions  

I agree 3nS

It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09

by firstfan on Aug 19, 2009 9:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

disagree

I’ve seen this comparison elsewhere and I don’t understand it.

Marshall and Moss have very different games and skill sets. Moss is one of the fastest receivers in the NFL, he runs great routes and has amazing hands. Marshall’s not even the Broncos’ fastest receiver and his hands are suspect. Marshall’s strength is his ability to create yards after the catch by breaking through arm tackles. Moss doesn’t welcome contact as much. He can get yards after the catch by running away from the defense or by weaving behind blocks.

The truth is the Patriots really don’t have any receivers comparable to Brandon Marshall.

On a tangential note, Marshall said yesterday during his press conference that he’s a “fairly smart guy” when he was describing his inability to learn the playbook. If he’s fairly smart, then what’s taking so long? What role does physical repetition play in learning routes, reads and responsibilities? I ask that because I honestly don’t know. Just because he’s been unable to participate in all the practices, that doesn’t preclude him from sitting in meetings and getting “mental reps,” right?

Maybe this is another point of differentiation between Marshall and the Patriots’ receivers, they’re smart and he’s not. I’ve heard Moss described as having one of the highest football IQs in the league.

But who will guard the guards themselves?

by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 20, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

Good question
What role does physical repetition play in learning routes, reads and responsibilities? I ask that because I honestly don’t know.

That’s a very good question. It’s the difference between reading a book on auto repair and fixing cars. If you haven’t done the physical side of it, you don’t really know the material yet. Orton is in the same boat in a sense – he’s got the ‘book learning’ down fine. Now he has to perform those actions until they’re second nature. It takes time and lots of reps.

What does concern me was the impression that he hasn’t even gotten to the book learning stage yet. If true, that’s a bad sign.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Doc Bear on Aug 20, 2009 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

possible trade partners

I was looking over the Jets’ roster and it’s difficult for me to come up with anyone that would add value to our team. I would take Brandon Marshall for Bart Scott, but I doubt that would be too inequitable to go down.

In the end, I think a good trading partner might be the Jacksonville Jaguars. For starters, their receiving corps ranks in the bottom third of the league. Jag reciever Mike Walker is reported to be Brandon Marshall’s best friend and they played together at UCF. And I think Brandon would be going home.

I just don’t know who the Jags would be willing to give us. I’d love to trade Marshall plus someone to Jacksonville for John Henderson, but I just don’t know how realistic that is. They drafted Terrence Knighton from Temple, maybe they’re grooming him to be Hendu’s replacement.

I don’t know if the Broncos want any more first rounders (if they could get any for Marshall), so I’m not convinced they’d trade him for picks. I think it’d be a player swap.

But who will guard the guards themselves?

by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 20, 2009 10:34 AM MDT reply actions  

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