Josh McDaniels, on Outside the Lines, this morning....
3 months ago
John Bena
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This is awesome people!! A Must-Watch!
It's Orange Crush time. And no I am NOT talking about the soft-drink.
Which I beg the question: "Can liquid really be... soft?"
3 TE Set = 3 losses or less.
Do it MickeyD... 13-3!!
by USMCWall on Aug 2, 2009 3:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The reporter looks like Ron Bergundy...
I’m Ron Bergundy?
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Aug 2, 2009 3:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great piece
Ed Werder is easily the best NFL reporter that ESPN has. Schefter can break the news, but Ed Werder is the guy that does it justice. Glad he managed to get himself out of Dallas and into Denver. When the Broncos start winning, we’re going to be headlining NFL Live every week now that Werder is stationed here.
"Speak softly and carry a big (hockey) stick." - Theodore Roosevelt
by wtnelson on Aug 2, 2009 4:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I loved it!!!
The Coach is WINNER! Period. His approach to the game is inspiring . . . “if you go into a 90 minute meeting not prepared to teach from the moment the lights go out to the moment they go back on, then someone has dropped the ball [sic]”. That gave me goosebumps. As a matter of fact, I have to get back to breaking down film . . . HS practices start next Monday. :)
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
by HSFBCoach on Aug 2, 2009 5:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We hired...
baby Bill Belichick minus the lack of smiling. He’s totally committed to coaching and doesn’t want to do anything else. For the average joe, his work/life balance is probably skewed way too much toward “work”, but as a fan I guess I’m glad it is. :)
Beware the wrath of a patient adversary.
John C. Calhoun --
by bcfunk on Aug 2, 2009 5:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I love his attitude.
He’s one of those guys just just demands full attention without actually saying it. He really seems like the kind of guy that players will rally around because they don’t want him to be disappointed.
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Aug 2, 2009 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was fortunate to see it this morning
and I really enjoyed it. I agree with the rest of good comments on Werder. He did a great job on that piece. Every day I just get more excited about the season.
GO BRONCOS!!!!
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
by weazel on Aug 2, 2009 6:03 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Bears fan here...
Good luck to you guys this season. I can’t wait for the season to start! I’m curious about some thing that I’m wondering you Broncos fans can help me with.
I just watched that interview and something was said that I’ve been wondering about since the day the whole Cutler drama began. What in the world was McDaniel doing even listening to offers about Cutler? I mean why would he even be holding the phone to his ear?? And before people start the whole “Cutler is a baby” or “Cutler is a jerk” stuff, hear me out.
I’ve heard a lot from the national media and Broncos fans talk about how this is a business and Jay Cutler should’ve understood it and just dealt with the trade rumors. I mean he is getting paid right? But for the life I can’t think of another QB, fresh off a ProBowl, in his 3rd year that’s ever had to hear his name dangled for another player. I mean true, Clinton Portis for Champ Bailey comes to mind in terms of 2 players in their prime being swapped. But I’ve never heard of a close to, if not Franchise, 25 year old QB being mentioned in a trade for a one hit wonder like Matt Cassel. I don’t really buy the argument of McDaniels doing due dilligence by listening to offers for Cutler. Who does that? Do you think Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would take kindly to finding out there experienced coaches listened to calls to trade them? I don’t. So why wouldn’t Cutler want out of dodge after finding out his rookie coach actually picked up the phone? It seems like an awful lot of trust being given to a 33 year old who’s never been a head coach before. If him and Bowman could screw the Cutler thing up, you just wonder if they do really does have a plan.
by Dils on Aug 2, 2009 6:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe
that McDaniels knew that Cassel was familiar with the Offensive scheme that he was going to run here, and McD had been coaching him up during the previous year. So to continue their relationship would create a virtually seamless transition for the main leadership position for his new team. It is highly probable that McD had evaluated Cutler and his weaknesses and decided he could find a better fit for his system. although, McD did say he would have liked to have him on the team and believed he could make Jay into a premiere QB.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Aug 2, 2009 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But can’t you kind of make an argument that Jay was already a premiere QB? Besides since when does an incoming coach’s system take precedence over the pro bowl player that he has on the team already? This isn’t the case of a good defensive tackle not fitting into a scheme because he isn’t big enough to play nose tackle. This is the Franchise QB we’re talking about here. Shouldn’t McDaniels system be flexible enough to work with Cutler’s talents?
by Dils on Aug 2, 2009 6:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pro Bowl
Pro Bowl, Franchise, it’s all a bunch of bull. McD and Bowlen wanted Cutler.
by Endzone on Aug 2, 2009 6:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
Sorry Dils. I should have said welcome. Polite and thoughtful discussions are always welcome here.
by Endzone on Aug 2, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Bad Vibes" Dils.
Bad vibes come off when people meet and their persona is analysed as being smug, impertinence, presumptuous, narcissustic, egotistical, etc…may be there were bad vibes between Cutler and McDaniels. One thing we all can agree on, the karma was not there. Being a Pro-Bowl QB doesn’t necessarily mean he is the fit for the system and scheme you plan to impliment. There were QB’s who didn’t go to the Pro Bowl that probab;y should have been there. And from what I’ve read Cutler didn’t represent himself in a ‘professional’ matter while he was there (at the Pro Bowl). Any way he’s your now and you enjoy him and hope everything works out for the Bears this year.
by bfree2bronc on Aug 2, 2009 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Incoming system...
With McDaniels coming in the system was going to change (from West Coast to some form of spread offense). McDaniels system seems to place alot of emphasis on the mental side of QB play (decision making, check downs, not throwing into double/triple coverage etc), something that has clearly been Cutler’s weakness thus far. Shanahan’s system seemed increasingly to focus on Cutler’s physical attributes (arm strength and athleticism). I get the feeling that Orton fits McDaniels system better (at the moment) than Cutler. However, if McDaniels had stayed with the west coast offense, I’m sure everyone would agree that Cutler would have been the better fit.
Regarding the phone call, in my opinion, he should listen to any offer that comes his way,firstly out of courtesy, and secondly, in case someone offers something ridiculous.
by Timimus on Aug 2, 2009 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not everyone thinks Cutler is a franchise QB
…at least not at this stage.
The fact of the matter is, McDaniels didn’t make any trade for Cassel. If you can’t understand why McDaniels would even listen, you don’t understand his philosophy for running a football team. And if you don’t understand that, there’s really no answer that is likely to satisfy you.
by JeffG on Aug 2, 2009 7:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Not only did the Cassel-to-Denver trade not happen, wasn’t Belichik quoted as saying he wasn’t even aware of a trade involving Denver by the time the deal with KC had gone through? If McDaniels was so keen on this trade, you’d think he would have talked with his old team at least once, right?
by Timimus on Aug 2, 2009 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
Well some DO think Jay Cutler is a franchise QB and even if he isn’t one yet, he’s done more at his position than McDaniel has at his on the pro level. Secondly, again I don’t know of any pro bowl QB young QB that’s had to hear about being traded the next year by a guy who hasn’t been a head coach on this level before. You would think that if McDaniel learned anything from Belichek, it’s how to run a football team and nip a controversy in the bud. Case in point…
The younger Matt Cassel goes out and has a great season for the Pats while the older Tom Brady has to come back from a serious knee injury. Matt Cassel is looking for a contract. What does Belichek do? He trades they guy so fast that he didn’t even worry about getting deserved compensation for him. Why? Because he didn’t need the controversy. That’s what an experienced head coach who runs the show does.
So my original point was and still is, if you’re McDaniel why are you even listening for offers for your best player? Why are you running the risk of pissing the guy off in the first place? It would piss any QB off to begin with, let alone a Pro Bowler at the position. On top of that, for a lesser player with one good season under his belt? Also If McDaniels system was good enough to make Cassel look that good, then surely he can make a guy like Cutler even better right? That’s where the controversy started and as a result he didn’t end up with Cassel or Cutler. The rest is history.
by Dils on Aug 2, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not cool.
I know plenty of girls who don’t pout, so this is a baseless comparison. LOL
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Aug 2, 2009 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Thanks! :-)
Joe Sakic was pure class, win or lose, at all times.
by Colorado_Kitten on Aug 3, 2009 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler ad infinitum
It is not the player’s team, number one. There is no player bigger than the team and there is no employee bigger than the owner of any company, let along a pro sports franchise.
Cutler was a disgruntled employee looking for an excuse to get out. He likely had someone whispering over his shoulder fanning the flames (read this as AGENT) looking to make a bigger payday as well. Between them, they manufactured an excuse and started to play chicken with the franchise.
Sounds like a typical prima donna athlete and a typical money seeking agent to me.
As I have said all along, good riddance to the player Cutler. The league moves on, the team moves on, life moves on.
by Broncos Rule on Aug 3, 2009 8:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brady vs. Cutler...
With all due respect, I don’t think you can really compare Brady’s situation with Cutler’s.
1.) Brady is a 4x Pro-bowler, 3x Superbowl winner, 2x Superbowl MVP, NFL MVP and future HOF QB compared to Cutler’s 1 pro-bowl and 0 playoff appearances.
2.) Patriots had 2 players on their roster and at some point would have to choose one of them. So long as Brady was healthy, he was the far better player and was always going to be the starter again. So with Brady as starter why would you want to pay a backup QB franchise tag money when you could trade him for something.
Denver on the other hand took a phone call from another team asking about a trade and it appears that McDaniels declined the offer.
by Timimus on Aug 2, 2009 8:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that
but you gotta remember, Brady is the face of New England and he is very likely to always be the face of New England. Jay Cutler was not the face of the Broncos ever. If anyone has been recently, it’s Champ Bailey.
The one face of the Broncos forever isn’t Jay Cutler, it isn’t Mike Shanahan, it’s John Elway. From what I’ve heard, Elway’s pretty high on this Orton guy, which is more than he can say for Cutler. If Elway approves, then I approve. No one knows the Broncos organization and Pat Bowlen quite like Elway does.
Not even Mike Shanahan had the relationship with Bowlen that Elway had and still has to this day. With that in mind, if Elway never came out and said it was stupid to trade Cutler away, I’ve gotta lean in the direction that it wasn’t a stupid idea to trade Cutler away.
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Aug 2, 2009 9:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're Listening To You
Does that make us bad people? Do you think my wife is gonna be pissed at me for listening to you? Am I REQUIRED to agree with you? Did I making any promises to my fellow MHR’s or my best buddy that I’m breaking by listening to you? Come on Dils! Be sensible.
The Broncos have REAL pro-bowlers all-star all-pros on the team in Champ and Dawkins. Our 2d year guy Ryan Clady has pro-bowler all-star all-pro written all over him. Cutler had potential but I don’t know literally ANYONE in Denver that thought Cutler was in the same class. Potential Yes. Was he there? No. Was he Denver’s best player? No.
Cutler forcing his way out of Denver is indicative of his decision making skills. If he doesn’t get his way, he pouts and bolts. In games, if he doesn’t like the play called he does whatever he wants. He’s not a team player. Mad skills, but poor decision making ability. Immature to say the least.
As for your poorly disguised contempt of McDaniels. That is undeserved. Your arguments against him simply are not logical.
If anything, If I were Cutler I’d have been upset that the Broncos brought in Simms and paid him more than me. I wouldn’t pout and not return the owner’s phone calls. But I’d still be a little miffed. Even kindergarten teachers don’t put up with brats.
One last thing. If I’m the coach I could care less if I upset a player if I’m doing what’s best for the team AND that player.
by Endzone on Aug 2, 2009 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, McDaniels set records at his previous "position"
…as OC. Cutler, on the other hand, has failed to win any of a host of games that would have gotten Denver to the playoffs.
Again, if you believe QBs need to be coddled and micromanaged so that their psyches don’t ache, fine. I happen to think that Cutler’s attitude showed a guy who will be a liability in adverse circumstances.
You listen to offers because you never know when someone is going to go all Ditka on you and offer up an entire draft class. Or maybe some team is so desperate for a big name that they’ll Herschel Walker you.
The point being, there shouldn’t be a risk of “pissing the guy off” — or rather, whether or not he’s pissed off shouldn’t matter one way or the other.
Bottom line is, Cutler doesn’t believe he needs to be coached up. He’s not interested in the kind of system McDaniels runs (or that he thinks McDaniels runs).
Had McDaniels wanted Cassel, he’d have Cassel. Cutler’s gone because he wanted to be gone — and because Bowlen doesn’t put up with such impudence from his employees.
Nor should he. The team is bigger than Cutler. That is the real history — and it will remain so, even if Cutler shines in Chicago. He screwed this city, his former team, and the fans — all to get what he wanted.
If that’s the kind of leader you want, you’re welcome.
by JeffG on Aug 3, 2009 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jef, I agree
From Thanksgiving Day 2006 to the day he was traded, I never rooted for Cutler. It was all subconscious until this whole debacle unfolded.
However, Orton is a guy I can root for. He is like a Rudy or a Rocky Balboa, I don’t care if it doesn’t work out, his time in a Broncos’ uniform will be with me pulling for him for he will not “screw his city, his former team, and the fans.”
by Hammerhunker on Aug 16, 2009 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dils - I agree with some of what you have written
With all due respect, I think some of our MHR brethren have a bit of the “my-ex-girlfriend-wasn’t-really-that-pretty-and-now-I-realize-her-personality-really-sucked” syndrome, which is perfectly natural. In fact, the vast majority of us most likely thought JC was our best player, or certainly one of our two best players, prior to the blow up. Do you want to call him the or a franchise player? I won’t quibble, though some might.
And some of the criticism of JC that has come out since then has had the flavor of post hoc justification of the new hate-JC feelings that we need to create to really get over him. Fair enough.
However, I’ll wager that in McD’s famous interview meeting with Bowlen, McD made a number of attacks on the offense until then thought so wonderful, which are true, damning and tightly tied in with JC’s play – the red zone problem, the intercetions, locking in on targets and failing to read, the yards without points.
I think McD knew all along that if he were going to get/take this job, the offense would have to be rebuilt in something like the Patriot’s image, at least in terms of production and efficiency, meaning specifically more control and discipline. There simply was no possibility, ever, that McD would go with a wilder offense because it better fit his “franchise” QB’s style. I think McD knew/decided that from the start, and knew he had to get JC to buy into being a different kind of QB. I think after meeting with JC he probably had some doubts, not about whether JC COULD be a different kind of QB, but whether he WOULD WORK to be a different kind of QB. At that point a phone call comes in about a potential trade for someone who not only could play the position in the way McD is hoping for, this guy is McD’s boy and could bring the whole playbook into the huddle from day 1 !! You gotta at least take the call, right??
But for the various reasons pointed out by others, the talks never got serious – Bellichek never even heard about Denver, we would have given better compensation, etc., etc., – if McD were serious, we would have had Cassel in practice today.
Should JC have been pissed off?? I would have been more motivated. He’s supposed to be a professional, right? A little pissed off? OK, but you have to admit that from that point on, it was virtually all JC driving the break-up, (and, I suspect, his agent). For all his very insincere protestations later on, JC clearly got what he wanted.
Had he never left, the two would have butt heads frequently. A stubborn control freak versus a very self confident prima donna – I shiver at the thought. I honestly think I like what actually happened better than the alternative – and frankly, I am very happy about retaining the control freak who is so committed to details, discipline and hard work and competition for every player – no exceptions.
On the other hand, you guys didn’t do too badly either. In the end I was upset with JC’s pouting, I questioned his judgment and, on review, his performance on the field lost a lot of the glitter for me – but he is unquestionably a heck of a talented QB, with a fantastic arm and great movement out of the pocket. I hope you guys do well together, unless you play us – then God help you because we will have you gnashing your teeth in pain and humiliation. (a leetle joke)
And, no, I am not talking about some nonsense pre-season stuff – could NOT care less about what happens in that game!
Always enjoy your comments – you stir up the MHR hornets pretty well.
GO BRONCOS
by dwinjapan on Aug 5, 2009 5:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Misinformation
McD didn’t go for the trade. Period.
Why did Cutler want out? Draw your own conclusions.
by Endzone on Aug 2, 2009 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I look at the big pieces and see
(a) a legendary coach fired, and (b) his prodigious QB left town. Honestly, I believe that Jay just wasn’t interested in being a Bronco in the post-Shanahan era. And I believe he and his agent orchestrated the histrionics to force a trade. My opinion, and I don’t really have any evidence. But it makes more sense than a lot of the BS I heard during that time.
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 2, 2009 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shanahan
I wonder if Shanahan was fired because he couldn’t or wouldn’t deal with Cutler? Jay was acting like he owned the team.
If memory serves, Jay said Bowlen was going to get his approval before any new coach was hired. What owner would say such a thing? That Bates would stay. Hey! What does the new coach have to say about that? Who’s in charge? The Coach or The Player? Bowlen affirmatively said The Coach and The Player pouted his way out of town.
by Endzone on Aug 2, 2009 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understandable if true
Firing Shanny and hiring McDaniels was Pat’s decision. Hiring Jay Cutler was Shanahan’s.
But I tend to believe that Shanny was let go because of his record, not because Jay was obsessed with power.
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 3, 2009 4:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derek Anderson
Derek Anderson went to the Pro Bowl in 2007 after his second season (he was 24). There was some speculation that he might be traded- I suspect the Browns wish they’d done so.
Denver fans remember Brian Griesie- who also made a Pro Bowl in his third year- you Chicago fans probably remember him more for the two seasons he spent as a backup with the Bears.
I’m not trying to say that Derek Anderson or Brian Griesie are the same player as JC- clearly Jay is a much more talented QB. However it’s foolish to suggest that any player be considered untouchable just because he’s made a Pro Bowl. If the initial talks had landed Cassel and two firsts for Cutler (not unreasonable considering what Cutler and Cassel eventually went for), McD would have gotten a quarterback who knew his system plus two potential stars for a player who may never amount to anything more than he is now: a QB who’s amazing arm only partially makes up for the fact that he makes an awful lot of poor decisions.
Horton is win.
by jack_ on Aug 2, 2009 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
we will never know the finer details
so who is to say if cuter was dangled…more likely than not the pats came to denver with an offer and cutler (who is already upset at the firing of shanny and crew) sees his opportunity to get outta dodge – cue bus cook effect
no doubt he is talented but at the QB spot you need a leader and cutler didnt seem to want to be that guy – at least in denver
"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
- "I don't listen to hip-hop"
"Born like this / Into this"
by BroncoJoe311 on Aug 2, 2009 6:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Elway Precedent
Dan Reeves and Joe Gibbs had an agreement in principle involving John Elway. Luckily Pat Bowlen put the skids on it.
The injustice to befall Cutler is hardly unique or unprecedented. The difference is that one former Denver QB refused to confirm the rumors until he retired and the other pouted his way out of town over it.
That might help a little in understanding the average Broncos’ fan perspective on it.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 2, 2009 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said
Certainly explains my perspective on it. : )
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 2, 2009 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
In addition....
I’m sure as hell certain that Elway returned Pat Bowlen’s phone call!
by pshin8670 on Aug 2, 2009 11:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dils,
In answer to your question, a good coach answers the phone and listens because no matter how good a player is, no single player can guarantee wins. And some team might be willing to trade the family farm for one guy on a huge gamble. Look, take Dan Marino, for instance. By all accounts, the guys is a legendary QB. Never made it to the big dance. Any QB who gets his feelings hurt that a team would consider trading him should get over himself. Montana? Traded. Favre? Traded (OK, bad example, but I couldn’t resist). I think this was a simple case of capitalism. You had what fit best for our new system, and we had exactly what you needed. It was a win-win. Of course, all this has yet to be seen in actual practice, but on paper both teams should be in better shape now that we understand more what McDaniels is doing. I like Chicago. I lived there for a time, I grew up watching Jordan make history with the bulls, and I can think of few things better than getting off the el at Addison on game day. I’m even a bears fan, to an extent. If for some reason this season doesn’t work out well, and Lovie gets his walking papers, I’d love to see Shanahan and Cutler reunite. Just not on my FAVORITE team. I don’t think pandering to Cutler will translate to wins. And I would encourage Lovie Smith to entertain every phone call, too, because picking up some WR’s/RB’s and a few high draft picks for a QB next year would be a great for Chicago – far better than you’ll be with Cutler and no high draft picks, I’m afraid. Of course this is all speculation. Who knows? It’ll be fin to watch, but in the end, I do not fault McD for listening to ANY offer. Listening is not the same as trading, and an adult on an NFL team should know that.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Aug 2, 2009 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's been plenty of BIG names to be traded and/or signed to different teams...
Deion Sanders, Joe Montana (as you already said), Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson, Tony Gonzalez…the list goes on and on and on.
The difference between all of those guys and Jay Cutler: They were all honest to God FRANCHISE players. Every single one of them was the face (and in Sanders case, the mouth) of their respective franchise. No player is ever too big or popular to be traded or even released by their beloved franchise.
In fact, I’d say that if Peyton Manning doesn’t fare so hot without Dungy heading the reins this year, there may be a few people knocking at Indy’s door that would gamble the mortgage away on him. And I’d be willing to bet a few bucks on the fact that Indy’s FO will take the calls and listen to the offers.
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
by Joe Medina on Aug 2, 2009 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You made my point way better than I did. Thanks.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Aug 4, 2009 10:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But for the life I can’t think of another QB, fresh off a ProBowl, in his 3rd year that’s ever had to hear his name dangled for another player.
IMO, one (us, the public) can only work with what little information that is at our disposal. Lots of bits and pieces and quotes here and there from both sides. We most likely will never get any inside info. But I think your above quote is where it all started and yes, just based on those details you provide, the situation never made sense. I struggled with those details for quite a while, too. But IMO the only thing one can do is speculate and try to deduce what happened: McD and Bowlen saw something else in Cutler or they experienced something else in him. Something negative. And it might have been a lot of little negatives adding up to a whole picture. I personally now believe these little negatives are the little anecdotes that keep coming out about Cutler concerning how the kid, to put it bluntly, is a D-Bag. Not a nice guy, temperamental and always looking out for himself.
Do you think Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would take kindly to finding out there experienced coaches listened to calls to trade them?
Cutler is in no way, shape or form in the same league yet as Manning or Brady. True, he may have the physical gifts and is very talented, but his on the field performance – and even his off the field performance – can’t even compare to those two. It’s a mistake to use that argument.
So why wouldn’t Cutler want out of dodge after finding out his rookie coach actually picked up the phone?
Was Jay so mentally immature to not be able to handle being “betrayed” and dangled out as trade bait? Seems like it. Or at least that was part of his justification for wanting to be traded.
To sum up, it seems to me the better question would be: Why would the multi-million football franchise, traditionally one of the more popular franchises, and the owner who always has put his money on the line and tried to build a Super Bowl contender, decided to trade “a young, bright, Pro Bowl QB”? All signs point that Bowlen and McDaniels learned something about that young, bright, QB….
by Gristle McThornbody on Aug 3, 2009 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's ALL about character
McDaniels is BIG on character, and Cutler didn’t/doesn’t have any. Don’t believe me Dils, just ask Brian Uhrlacher: “Cutler is a pussy”. Or, if you prefer, watch the games the Broncos lost last year, and see how your “Pro Bowl Quarterback” reacts to adversity. He pouts like a little girl, starts yelling at his teammates and throws interceptions. Hence the trade for Orton. As you know, the fans loved Ortin in Chicago because they saw him as a working class guy who did his best with what he had. Cutler, to paraphrase Shakespeare “Has the arm of a lion and the heart of a mouse”. Best of luck
by JRSIII on Aug 3, 2009 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dils, there is precedent for a coach hearing offers for their starting qb (Elway to Washington) or maybe in this case the other way around, but that isn’t the point. John Elway handled the situation like a professional. Look at Jason Campbell in Washington, granted he is not coming of a “Pro Bowl year” but his name being thrown around in trade talks only motivated him the more. The player didn’t handle it professionally. It was all about him. I wish he would have told himself, “Well, I’m still here, and I am here for my teammates. We will show this new regime who the franchise qb is….” or something like that. However, it is over now. Maybe for Chicago’s sake Cutler has grown from this situation. I’m just glad the action has started and we can concentrate on the game again instead of the soap opera.
by Hammerhunker on Aug 16, 2009 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli effect
I’ve always wondered if Pioli was somehow actually behind the cutler/Cassell trade getting publicized. One reason we may not hear about trade for inquiries is that coaches/GM’s don’t want to piss off the players involved unless a trade is imminent. No proof or anything just something that I thought while all the cutler drama was going on.
At sea level, but I'll always be a mile high.
by DaytonaBronco on Aug 2, 2009 7:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoops meant to reply to Dils
At sea level, but I'll always be a mile high.
by DaytonaBronco on Aug 2, 2009 7:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler
Dils,
My question to you: if Cutler had NOT made the Pro Bowl – which, even when he was with us I knew he didn’t deserve would you still be questioning the trade?
In other words, without Cutler’s Pro Bowl he has no credentials other than having a lot of potential. Would it have been OK for McDaniels to ‘listen’ then?
I think so.
That’s really always been the crux of my problem with so many questions regarding Cutler. He is NOT a franchise quaterback. At least not yet. He was NOT deserving of his first Pro Bowl. He was NOT even the best quaterback in our division – let alone one of the best in our conference.
He DOES have potential. But potential alone is not enough to not entertain any and all offers to improve your team. Couple that with has ‘better than thou’ attitude and his tendancy to pout on the sidelines it’s easy for anyone to see that he ain’t all that and a bag of chips.
I’ve always agreed that as soon as Shanahan was dismissed Jay wanted out. When Bates was let go he really wanted out. He even wanted a say in choosing who the new coach should be – as he would be lucky enough to find another HC and OC who would pander to his desires, rather than calling plays based on what’s best for the team.
His actions throughout the whole debacle only cemented my feelings.
Please realize, I supported Shanny’s decision to go for Cutler and to put him in place of Plummer. It actually pains me to write that now because I realize I was wrong. Plummer did not have the arm Cutler did. But he had the intangibles. He was selfless. A team player and a leader.
Most of all – he won a lot of games when he was here. Shame on me and fans like me who fell in love with ‘potential’. Don’t make the same mistake we did – for the sake of your team.
That why I’m excited about the direction of our team and our new leaders: especially McDaniels, Orton and Dawkins.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
by SSMT on Aug 3, 2009 9:15 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
All In With That!!!
+ 1,000,000,000
by BroncoSense72 on Aug 3, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
people have been talking up Cutler's "potential" for the past three seasons
and he has yet to live up to it
by lolcopter on Aug 3, 2009 7:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
SSMT,
So perfectly put. Potential: “Ain’t done **** yet”
Watching the sidelines Friday, even after Ko’s 3 picks, he was up on the sideline surrounded by his teammates. He wasn’t alone sitting at the end of the bench by himself with his hat on backwards sulking. It was if it was all forgotten, we are moving on. The same was seen with Plummer. You could always tell that his teammates had his back, and he had theirs.
by Hammerhunker on Aug 16, 2009 9:16 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole Pro Bowl thing
This is the pro-Cutler argument that rankles me the most.
First of all, Denver has perennially been stiffed in the Pro Bowl, and the overwhelming majority of Bronco fans state that with unbridled enthusiasm each time it happens.
Now, suddenly, when Jay leaves town, the Pro Bowl is undeniable proof for some of those same fans that he is a “franchise quarterback”. This ignores some key tidbits of context:
1) Tons of yards will get you into the Pro Bowl. It will also get you up to the top of the offensive rankings in the NFL. What it will not do, unfortunately, is guarantee that you’ll finish higher than 16th in the league in scoring, or that you’ll win more than 8 games.
2) Pro Bowl voting is conducted before the end of the season. Had the voting been conducted after Week 17, Philip Rivers would have gone, and Cutler would have stayed home (from Honolulu, that is – he was already staying home after Week 17).
3) The correlation between Pro Bowls and Super Bowls is not the slam dunk many people think it is.
Look, I don’t hate Jay Cutler. Personally I feel for him a bit, because I think he’s going to have a difficult time dealing with life if he can’t escape the feeling of coddled entitlement that his parents so obviously instilled in him. And I can’t deny his physical talent, or even some of the leadership he has shown at times on the field. But if you’re ambitious enough to explore the reasons why McDaniels would have entertained an offer for Cutler in February, you’ll discover it’s like everything else in life – many shades of gray.
by ShawnDenver on Aug 3, 2009 9:33 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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