Clady vs. Bowe: One Word, Wow
by RSH089 on Aug 21, 2009 1:15 PM MDT
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PrintIn an article written by Andrew Pema today, RealGM Football: The Red Zone - Be The GM: Clady Vs. Bowe, the question is posed on who you would choose to build a franchise around today if you had to decide between Ryan Clady or Dwayne Bowe? Why that's even a question is one thing, but the results to the ongoing poll on the page are even more staggering.
At the time, I voted, 44% of the voters said they would rather start a franchise with Bowe. I think it is pretty amazing how undervalued Clady continues to be by football fans and sadly, even those who write these articles and should know more than such fans.
Bowe has had a horrible training camp, has failed to live up to his full potential thus far during his time in the NFL and is not a top tier wide receiver. Clady, however, should have been in the Pro Bowl last season. Clady was a run and pass blocking machine having yielded only a half sack all season while committing only three penalties
I would include a poll of my own on who you would choose to start a franchise with today, but I know that the vast majority if not everyone voting on this site have their heads screwed on straight and would go with Clady in a landslide. At least, Sporting News got it right this May when it ranked Clady as the best offensive tackle in football (see http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-05-08/offensive-tackle-rankings-young-anchors-awash-potential), which honor Clady undoubtedly deserved.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Bowe's only claim to fame
is that he is the best reciever that the Chiefs have. I have never like Haley and Pioli’s rose is losing its luster fast.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
?
Why would you ever choose a WR to build a franchise around? The only options on offense are LT, QB, and RB. Maybe in that order.
RB?
WR over RB, in my mind. It’s harder to find a 70-catch, 1,000 yard guy than a RB to give you 1,100 yards.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 21, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, but
It takes a QB who can hook up with the WR. Can’t a stud RB (I’m thinking Barry Sanders, LT, Floyd Little :) type) improve an otherwise lackluster offense more than a WR?
You're proving my point.
You rattled off three of the all-time great RBs in history to support your theory. If you were to do one of those fantasy drafts in Madden, which position would you be able to snag later and not see a significant drop-off? There’s an enormous drop-off in the WR position between the ELITE players and the second tier guys. In RBs, I think the drop-off is less significant, thus making the WR position more valuable.
I see the drop-off as less significant because in modern-day NFL where the platoon system is becoming more prevalent than “Stud RB”, you can get by using two or three guys to rack up the stats of the same “Stud RB”. I don’t believe the same can be said for WRs. I’m not sure there are many offenses in the NFL that can spread the ball through the passing game well enough to cover for one guy who can haul in 90 (I’m using the elite guys, here) catches and have a 1,400 yard season. For me, a 1,400 yard season receiving is greater than a 1,400 yard rushing season for an individual.
Thus me wanting to build around a QB, LT, and WR first.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 21, 2009 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with your first paragraph, and probably the rest
Except that I don’t buy the conclusion “making the WR position more valuable.” In a supply/demand sense, I agree with you. But in a sense of which can win a few (more) games for an upstart/rebuilding/sucky team, I still go with the RB. My thinking is simply that an elite WR needs more team support to be effective than an RB.
I’m thinking now that my goal (win a few more games) is not yours. You’ve made a case for what key pieces do I need in place to make a winning team (someday); and concluded that getting solid guys in the toughest skill slots is best (regardless of the immediate effect). I’m saying get what gives my team the best chance to improve now, and let’s build on that. Heh – I sound like Shanahan; you sound like McD.
P.S. I don’t play Madden or FF, so you might have some “lab” experience I don’t on this. I was basing my thoughts mainly on remembering some rather bad teams (the ones that were or needed to be rebuilding), and thought what players made them a threat at all (a stud RB), and what position player can be more productive “on an island” (again, an RB).
In other words, from my vantage point, the Lions are a perfect example: that they were less hopeless with Sanders than they are with Calvin Johnson proves my point… but to “build on”, perhaps you’re right. Of course, by the time you build the team that can use the WR, he’ll leave for a big FA contract that you can’t afford!
Good thoughts, and thanks!
I don't mean that a WR is more valuable
in that he means more than a RB, just that it’s a smaller pool of upper echelon talents, thus making having one a higher priority, at least for me. I agree that a RB would help the “now” philosophy better than a WR. I think the Shanny-McD comparison is apt.
Again, this is a discussion where I think there is no wrong answer, just different philosophies.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 21, 2009 7:13 PM MDT up reply actions
RB way more important than WR imo.
Calvin Johnson is an absolute stud but the Lions still can’t win a game. I would be willing to bet if the lions had adrian peterson or even michael turner they win a couple games last. year.
Using the Lions as an example
may not be the best course of action, because they were historically terrible. Also, they have the exact kind of “solid, but unspectacular” RB I’m talking about in Kevin Smith. When they get a decent supporting cast, which between Calvin Johnson and Kevin Smith become to more valuable commodity? Who is more easily replaced?
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 21, 2009 3:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Plus, look at the Arizona Cardinals.
They have two stud receivers and they made it to the SB. The only problem with WRs, is that they are “divas”. Cough-Brandon Marshall-Cough-Cough.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
Clady will never get the fanfare that a Bowe type would get
because a lot of times their (Clady’s) work goes unnoticed where Bowe a wide receiver is more in the lime light. Who’s the better player? Clady hands down, no ifs and or buts about it.
We've just seen the level of football knowledge of the average fan
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Doc Bear on Aug 21, 2009 2:09 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
It Should Be
100% Clady 1% Bowe, assuming a 1% margin of error of course.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
there is always that 1%
"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
- "I don't listen to hip-hop"
"Born like this / Into this"
by BroncoJoe311 on Aug 21, 2009 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Still the same after 164.
"How dare you condemn me without knowing all the facts?!!"
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 21, 2009 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions
People seem to forget that the real skill players are linemen on both sides of the ball.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
Never heard of Andrew Pema
but dude needs to find another interest. The position itself should stack the odds in Clady’s favor. I mean, who builds a team around a WR??
The chiefs do and look where they are. Thank goodness we drafted Clady!!!
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
The Poll
should really be.
Clady or anyone else in the 2008 draft.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
I think
I would take Matt Ryan over Clady but I am not sure about anyone else from that draft. All the other picks in the first round that year were pretty uninspired. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft
Ok
But at least then it becomes an interesting argument. Not a stupid obvious one.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
In that scenario
we probably don’t draft Eddie Royal.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 21, 2009 3:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Agree with bear.
Eddie is the easy choice. He may not be the PHYSICAL specimen that Bowe is, but I think he’s going to make a more complete receiver. Also, I think Eddie’s style is setup for a long-term run of success in the NFL because his route-running is already so smooth, so I’d take him over Bowe. That, and I’m a homer.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 21, 2009 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Starting with a WR would not...
be the way I’d build a team. I’d start on the OL, move to the DL, then start finding my ball skill people on D first with LB, CB an S in that order. Next I’d go to QB, RB, WR and TE. Remember this isn’t a fantasy league, real people hitting real people. The reason I started with the lines is that is really where good teams are the strongest besides if you can’t protect your QB it doesn’t really matter what kind of skill he has. I could be off the mark here, but it’s how I’d do it.
by bchiper on Aug 21, 2009 3:59 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
This is the fun of it.
We all have different ways of looking at how to build a team. I do agree that building from the inside out is a fantastic way to achieve success because winning the battles along the line of scrimmage throughout the game is an enormous advantage.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 21, 2009 4:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think your of the mark
You make a lot of sense. Where are the games really won. in the trenches. Would Terrell Davis had rushed for 2000 yards if he had a bad line. I don’t think so
How did Clady NOT make the Pro-Bowl last year?
I mean, ONE sack and THREE penalties in 16 games!!! You can’t ask for much more, especially from a rookie. I guess the NFL got tired of keeping Broncos players outside of the Hall, so they decided to keep them out of the Pro-Bowl(even though the fans vote anyway).
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
I think the MSM...
…is afraid the insurgency is still alive west of the Missippi. Fear of cholera may also keep them away.
Regardless, if Ryan Clady played back in civilization (the eastern seaboard, Chicago, Dallas), then he’d not only be a national name but a burgeoning NFL legend.
But he plays in Denver is the easy answer.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 21, 2009 6:09 PM MDT up reply actions
What would you rather eat. for breakfast...
Eggs, bacon and hashbrowns or dogcrap? I think that comparison makes just as much sense
It is said that ducks crash and die on the blue turf.
Living in a Fantasy World
To be frank, the reason so many people are voting for Bowe is that skill position players get all the press. Think back to the media and fanbase uproar when Houston passed up Reggie Bush and Vince Young for Mario Williams. Huge criticism then, not even a debate now about who was the best choice.
Also, most people’s knowledge of football is limited to Fantasy Football stats and rankings.
Bowe was at best the 3rd best rookie WR last season while Clady was the best rookie tackle since Orlando Pace. No contest.
Clady over Bowe, without a doubt.
That is a stupid question, and really shouldn’t even be asked. Why the hell would you start a franchise with a WR instead of a LT?
However, let’s settle down a little bit here. First off, Eddie Royal is an extremely promising and talented reciever, but he is in no way the same reciever Bowe is at his point in his career. Somewhere down the road? Maybe. The two recievers are relatively close in terms of statistics, with Bowe have a slight edge IMO (TDs, yards, 1st downs). However, when you consider the the teams that each player were playing on it really shows the difference.
Eddie Royal – 2nd best offense in football, top 10 QB in NFL, top 5 O-line, offensive genius head coach, and playing alongside one of the best WR’s currently in the NFL.
Dwayne Bowe – 24th offense in football, Tyler Thigpen (mediocre, but no Cutler), bottom 5 o line in NFL, Herm Edwards, and playing with Tony Gonzalez , best TE ever :)
As you can probably imagine, it is a little easier to put up good statistic whens you’re playing on one of the best offenses in the NFL. Certainly a lot easier in comparison to playing for the Chiefs offense, especially when the QB checks down to the TE every other play.
Eddie Royal is extremely talented, and should continue to be a good reciever in this league, bar injury. However, Dwayne Bowe is poised to join the ranks of the elite. He was easily the best rookie reciever of his draft class, outperforming even Calvin Johnson (who was actually injured for a few games). He then carried his success in to the next season, avoiding the sophmore slump that so many recievers suffer, including Larry Fitzgerald. Now that Dwayne actually has a decent, possibly good/great quarterback throwing to him, he will become a top 10 and possibly top 5 reciever in this league.
I can understand the anger behind the poll, and I completely agree with that. I love having Dwayne Bowe on my team, but there is no way in hell I would draft him ahead of Clady. To actually compare the two is a true sign of unintelligence (Hey, who would you rather have Marv, Peyton Manning or Tarvaris Jackson? Wow Brad, tough one. Mannings good, but Jackson has so much potential…) Seriously.
That being said, just because one of your best players is arguably the best in the league at his position, that doesn’t mean they all are. Eddie Royal is certainly good, but I am willing to bet that if a poll was held on NFL.com between the two, Bowe would recieve an overwhelming amount of the votes.
I guess you're as much a homer wrt Bowe as we are wrt Royal
but to put Bowe on the doorstep of greatness while damning Royal with the faint praise of “continue to be a good receiver” is kind of perverse. Yes, Bowe did remarkably well considering, but it takes a rare rookie WR to catch 91 balls even with the stars aligned perfectly. Perhaps Bowe in Eddie’s situation would also have caught around 90 passes, because like Eddie he was awfully good even as a rookie. Let’s just say they’re both on the verge of elite status.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Fair enough.
I will admit that good may be a bit of an understatement, however despite only catching around 70 passes in Bowes rookie year, he still managed to accumulate 995 yards. This coming from a team that fielded three different quarterbacks that season, including Damon “sexy bomb” Huard. I guess what I am getting at is that I would choose proven over unproven any day of the week.
But like you pointed out, I will admit Royal is on the verge of elite status. If he can do the same thing again this year with a few more touchdowns I won’t hesitate to consider him elite, and the same goes for Bowe.
Sorry for being so defensive about the Bowe subject, but what can I say? When you only have a few players on your team with actual talent, standing up for them is a must!
Another thing, what is the deal with B Marsh? I have heard all the bad things being reported, but what I’m really interested in is his progress on getting out of the AFC west. As you can probably imagine, I will sleep a little better when if he is traded, or better yet released.
I'd love to see Bowe in a Broncos uniform.
Forget the comparisons, the guy can play. I’d take him or Marshall in a nanosecond.
However, suggesting that he or any WO is more important than an elite left tackle is a ludicrus argument that defies even the most simple NFL fundementals.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions
I meant 'over' Marshall in a nanosecond...
…and that’s only because I don’t knoew the term for whatever is even shorter than a nanosecond.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
No way.
The chiefs can keep him. I would rather have Bmarsh. Bowe hasn’t really impressed me that much, especially compared to Marshall.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
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