Is It Possible . . .

Not to say anyone is less devoted or less educated than us here, but even those who are critical of the coach here still want success all around. McGeorge is one example.

In my opinion, if you like a team, you should support the entire team. To love the team but hope for coaches failure isn’t supporting the team in my opinion.

and the only way for McDaniels to erase any doubt about himself is to succeed, and I believe he will make every effort to do just that even if it dang near kills him. He said he has never lost which that can be taken as being somewhat egotistic or sarcastic but it can also be that he is very confident in his upbringing and his own ability to make things (in the football realm) happen. I’ll play along with him, let’s go get ’em Coach!!! 13-3 Baby!!!

can one expect success from the team without success from the coach? I can’t wrap my head around this concept. It just doesn’t make any sense. If a team does well, more than likely the coach and his staff are going to have something to do with it. If you want your coach to fail (and hence the team, which only makes sense) you really must not care much about the team in the first place. Not saying this about you, but just in general.

Well, after the whole McD-Cutler ordeal, i vowed never to root for Mcd ever. But, i soon realized that even if i strongly disagreed with his decisions, that i would ultimatly start to root FOR him just because of the fact that he is part of MY favorite team. I just find it sooo hard to even dislike someone, when they are a vital part of the franchise that I live my life around. It gets really hard to do this in the Bmarsh situation because he doesnt WANT to be part of this team. I thought to myself, “How can i possibly root for someone that doesnt want to play for this team that i love and admire?” But, I realized that i just coudnt possibly root against him when i see him in a Broncos uniform.
              This is similar to the Ron Artest- Lakers situation. (I am a Lakers fan but not nearly as big a Lakers fanatic as I am of the Broncos) When i saw Artest go absolutly crazy on Kobe during the playoffs, i just coudnt believe it. I completely DISPISED the way he ran over to Kobe (My favorite player) and wanted to fight and also how Artest ran his finger across his throat to Kobe. I was digusted by Artest and i really didnt like the guy. But, just a couple months later he was signed by the Lakers and I magically became a fan of his. It was weird. I hated him so much before but now I became his fan. I came to realize that no matter how much i didnt like his personality, the fact that he could help my favorite team win a title overruled the fact that i hated him before. It is kind of like being mad at a family member. You know that they are on your “Team” amd they are close to you in a sense of being on that team. That no matter what they do, you will always root for them.
            So to answer your question if its possible to root for your team while at the same time root for a member of that team to fail, no. That is in my case however it will be different to others. The bottom line is that on Game Day Sunday, when i see MCD in his hoodie calling plays and leading us to a win and when i see Bmarsh in that Shiny, sleek Blue Broncos uniform guiding us down the field playing for the team that i would die for……….I cant help but root for them…….AND the team.

Manny Ramirez and PEDs.
Clarence Kay and doing all kinds of bad stuff.
Derrick Rose and SAT cheating?
Tom Caple and almost killing people.

I do think there are occasions when fans have the right to expect better out of those they pay to watch and represent their city.

In general though, with a level playing field, I’d prefer to see fans all the way in rather than part way in.

I’d much rather see a passionate Dolphins fan than a bandwagon Saints fan.

so it’s good to know that several of the people who are critical of McDaniels have also said they hope they’re wrong. That’s one of the differences between MHR and other Broncos forums.

You implied that success begins at the top, with the owner, and I think that’s exactly right. It’s not just that he provides fiscal and physical resources. Evaluating and developing talent also begins at the top. It starts with an owner capable of recognizing managerial and coaching talent, including the people (e.g. Ellis) who help him choose a GM and HC. If he chooses well he’ll end up with an HC and GM capable of recognizing scouting, coaching and player talent. If they choose well they’ll end up with scouts capable of recognizing potential, players capable of becoming solid contributors and stars, and coaches capable of helping them get there. If the owner builds and supports a motivated and effective managerial and coaching team the latter in turn will create and support a motivated and effective team on the field, and the wins will follow.

Bowlen has a reputation for being a good owner because he picks good people and lets them do their jobs. Like anyone who’s good at what he does he learns from his mistakes. In choosing Shanahan he picked a head coach skilled at evaluating and developing offensive coaching and player talent but seriously deficient, as it turned out, when it came to defense and special teams and unwilling or unable to delegate responsibility for those units. In fact, as they got worse he delegated even less and they got even worse, in a negative feedback spiral that eventually cost him his job. Bowlen’s other mistake was in allowing Shanahan to be in effect the GM as well as the head coach, which was more than he could handle.

Bowlen rectified the latter by having both the coach and GM report to him, and I suspect that, although he chose another brilliant offensive mind, he was careful this time to choose someone not deficient in other aspects of the game. McDaniels not only has defensive coaching experience (for which he got high marks), he picked an outstanding defensive coordinator in Nolan and apparently is letting him do his job. As for special special teams, it was evident in the San Francisco game that they’re drastically improved. Several times our kick returners broke through the first wave of tacklers because they got good blocks at the point of attack, something that was missing last year. And our coverage units did a much better job of fighting off blocks and getting to the kick returner.

I’m optimistic that McDaniels and Xanders will put together a winning team because I have confidence in Bowlen and his team. But even if I didn’t I’d hope I was wrong.

Great post though B – it’s possible for ‘regular’ or people who don’t consider themselves ‘die-hard’ or to ‘bleed orange and blue’…. But if on claims either of the latter, they should be on board, or stating their disapproval along with the hopes that they are wrong. That’s logical to me.

Good discussions.

I fall in the category of die-hard fans of the Denver Broncos who have no confidence or respect for McDaniels and Orton. The knee-jerk reaction would be to say “I hope the team succeeds, but McDaniels and Orton fail”, which has been discussed at length to be nearly impossible. After a couple of weeks of calming down and putting my opinions in a more sequential and logical manner, the more accurate description would be the following:

I will root for the Broncos, and always hope for success. However, I have no belief that the Broncos can be successful with Orton at QB. Additionally, since it is McDaniels who has anointed Orton as his starter seemingly no matter what, I do not believe we can be successful with McDaniels as coach as long as he refuses to acknowledge that he may be wrong on his QB assessment.

Ultimately, I do not believe you can hope for team success and individual failure at the same time. But I do believe you can hope for team success but believe in individual failure that will in turn cause the team to fail.

The right thing for ‘Bronco Country’ is to move their allegiance to Chicago. You can’t hope for failure from your QB and your head coach and simultaneously claim to be a fan. What you are is somebody who thinks the Broncos owe you something— whether its a vicarious jolt of superiority or ‘street-cred’ at the water cooler.

“Bronco Country’ are not fans, they are spoiled dependents.