Brandon Marshall stays home as situation with Broncos spirals downward
by John Bena on Aug 22, 2009 12:41 PM MDT
in Strictly My Opinion
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PrintThere's a problem. A big problem. Whether you want to believe it or not, right now, on Saturday, August 21, 2009, there is a huge problem between the Broncos and Brandon Marshall. For some of you this is not anything new. It is not for me either. I am trying to bring the rest of you on board, the ones that have your fingers in your ears, shouting "La-La-La-La" hoping it will all go away. It isn't, at least it doesn't appear to be.
I asked the question last week if you felt Brandon Marshall had quit on the Broncos. Nearly 1,450 of you responded, with 79% saying "Yes!". Yes, I know some of you wanted a third answer, the "I'm not sure" choice, but what fun is that. This site is all about having an opinion. It's okay to do that on MHR because you won't get criticized for it, as long as it is given respectfully. So, no, there's not going to be any "I'm not sure" choices in polls here. That number, 79%, is a strong indication of how many of you feel.
After I wrote it, there was a lot of talk about the media blowing everything out of proportion. Talk of reporters baiting Marshall into saying things, or taking comments out of context. There was the infamous, "playbook" line by the player and the diplomatic response by the coach.
"See, it isn't really that big of a deal" everyone said, or at least those who want to ignore the truth.
Me? I don't listen much to what people say. Coaches and players are schooled from Day 1 on how to be as bland as possible. Marshall, by his agent no doubt, is being told to take the high road, as much as possible, because 31 teams in the NFL are watching how he handles all of this very closely. "I have never asked for more money" "How can I be unhappy doing what I love?"
Josh McDaniels has been schooled by some of the most media-savvy coaches in the business - Nick Saban and Bill Belichick - on how to avoid the media mind games. "Everyone plays the scout team", "Not knowing the playbook is no big deal". "Brandon will play when he is ready".
All of those things are nice to say, but I look at actions. They do speak louder than words, you know.
Think about what has happened during Training Camp. When I was there, Marshall was practicing every day. He was working with the first and second team. The fact that he had little knowledge of the playbook didn't seem to hamper him. Then came the hamstring injury, ironically on a play that Marshall was working with the first team, that kept Marshall out of practice for 10 days. Marshall was still attending all the meetings, going to rehab, still part of the team.
Then came the trial last Friday, the acquittal, the directive from the team to the players not to be "too happy" for Marshall and Brandon's meeting with Joe Ellis and then Josh McDaniels. Since that moment, Marshall has yet to take a meaningful snap with the offense, at any time, on any level.
No, Marshall has played the scout team. That, in and of itself, tells you he is healthy. Injured players don't play the scout team, no, that honor goes to players that are not going to be a meaningful part of the upcoming game. He also stood with the DEFENSE the entire time. Yes, the same player fighting to learn the playbook, played scout team defense and stood with the defense in between sessions. That doesn't have the looks of a player concerned with learning the offense.
Marshall did run some offensive plays - wearing a red #84 shirt, playing to role of Seahawks WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh. More actions that point to the playbook having little to do with what is going on.
The last bit? With All-Time leading receiver Rod Smih talking technique with Eddie Royal, Marshall was off talking to a Special Teams coach. Smith, of course, was once a mentor for Marshall. Little is known as to why that stopped.
Guys and gals, this has NOTHING to do with the playbook. Think about it, if Brandon Marshall were traded to a team tomorrow, he would be on the field next weekend. Would he know any of the playbook? Don't be fooled.
The last bit of evidence you need happened last night when the Broncos left for Seattle sans #15. Not playing in a meaningless Preseason game is one thing. Not being invited on the airplane to be with the team, on the sideline with your teammates, is another one entirely. Injured players, like Brian Dawkins, for instance, usually do not go on road trips, favoring to rehab and work out at the home facility instead. Air travel(read pressurized cabin) doesn't feel too good on broken bones or muscle pulls either.
Brandon Marshall is 100% healthy. He has said this to the media in Denver, and said so on the Michael Irvin Show on Wednesday. I played much of that interview on MHR Radio Thursday Night.
So why leave him at home? Did Marshall wish to not make the trip, especially considering he would likely not play? Did the team decide the Marshall situation was too much of a distraction? Is this all a huge smokescreen?
Think back a couple years ago. The Patriots traded for Randy Moss. There was a lot of hooplah surrounding Pats Training Camp and Moss. Moss practiced very little early on and barely played in the Preseason. There were even articles coming out of New England that Moss could be cut before the season started because of the money. It turned out to be a ploy. Moss started practicing once the "open" portion of camp ended. All he did that season was catch 23 TD passes.
I bring this up because the open portion of Broncos Training Camp has ended, for the fans and the media. Now, the media gets 10 minutes or so at the beginning of practice to check things out then are forced away. This is when the 'real' work begins, as team begin to gameplan for the season. Could the Broncos, and Josh McDaniels, bring Marshall back at this point? Could this all be a huge smoke screen? One never can tell.
We all will know soon enough. Depending on who, and what, is the driving factor behind all this will determine what actions we see from the team in the coming week. For the record, I could care little if Marshall plays in the preseason at all, but at some point, if he is going to be a factor in the offense, Brandon Marshall will have to begin working with the #1 offense.
All we can do now is wait and see. What I don know is the Broncos offense has had success with Brandon Marshall and they have had success without him. And while I know the Broncos are more talented with Marshall on the field, it remains to be seen if the Broncos are a better TEAM with #15.
With the preseason 1/2 over, we'll soon get an idea.
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Comments
I would never have played teh smokescreen card
but I also think Marshall will be with us because no one wants TO’s off the field antics coupled with Pacman Jones’ legal history
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
Whatever McD and the Broncos are trying to do, I hope that it works.
This has truly been a stressful offseason for us, fans. Hopefully everything works out.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
Farking hell.
(types in a whiny tone) I just want the drama to be over! Please please please!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Aug 22, 2009 1:13 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Cubed
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
All I know to do
is try to focus on the guys actually playing football. For all BMarsh talks about it, he clearly is not doing the things it takes to get out there on the field.
This soap opera is probably barely in its 3rd act, with who knows ho many to go. I prefer to watch the other drama unfold, the one where Kenny McKinley takes center stage as a vertical threat, where Jabar Gaffney fights for a role in the slot, or the red zone, where Eddie Royal smokes secondaries all over.
Yeah, I am over it, too – but at least I have 79 other guys to pay attention to.
by jonahsilas on Aug 22, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
How many rec's
does THAT turn into? LOL!
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
+7
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 22, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
OMG YES
I fell likre my head is gonna explode!!!
by BroncoSense72 on Aug 22, 2009 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know what interview it was from or when
But on NFL Network yesterday, I saw an excerpt of ‘the guys’ interviewing Brandon in studio and he was asked “Do you think you’ll be wearing number fifteen for the Broncos this season?” to which he replied “I know I’ll be wearing number fifteen” and proceeded to laugh….
So it really is hard to tell exactly where his loyalties lie. Being a person who feels loyal to my workplace, simply for the fact that they are allowing my lifestyle, it is hard to imagine acting the way he has toward the whole situation. I’m with Zappa (and I’m sure thousands of others) – Hurry up and effing decide already!
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Aug 22, 2009 1:15 PM MDT reply actions
That was from July 17
Around the time he was talking about more money last month. This was close to the time he used the Jerry McGuire thing on CBS4.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Gotcha
Thanks for pointing that out. I just got NFL Network turned on two days ago, so….
= )
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Aug 22, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I was thinking about that same idea last night...
It certainly wouldn’t be a shocking situation if it were the case. The conspiracy theorist in me says Marshall knows a lot more of the playbook than he says. McD knows it too. The theorist part of me says McD is doing exactly what BB did with Moss. But then again, the conspiracy theorist in me also believe the MSM is bashing us so hard to set us up for the comeback feel good story this season much like Miami in 2008.
The life of a conspiracy theorist sucks.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
I agree with you, CJF, that McD is handling this that same as BB did with Moss.
He saw it done and figures that he can do the same with BM. With BM having a diminished trade value, this makes more sense than to unload him for very little in return. We’ll see if he is a poison in the locker room. Maybe McD is showing BM that he is in charge of this team. But as McGeorge said – McD wants to make sure his QB is OK.
The big question
would be has Brandon M bought into what they are trying to do. I think one would just have to point out what Randy Moss did and It would get the attention of Brandon M. That is if this is what they are trying to do.
The Moss angle is interesting...
But I wonder if Moss was asked to miss their preseason games too. I doubt BM’s situation is that parallel with what NE did with Moss. One can hope but I don’t think this will turn out nearly as rosy as the 23 TD whirlwind from 2007.
Interesting Point Guru
There are more people than you that don’t care if Brandon plays in the pre-season or not. Brandon is one of them given his past histroy of camps and missing the games that don’t count. I wonder what really was discussed behind close doors?
I am with you lets get onto the “real season”. What will be wil be.
Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans
Marshall
At this point, I’ve had it with Marshall. Put me on the record; at this point I would prefer we cut him. I don’t even care about the minimal trade value that he (doesn’t) have. (That’s right. Nobody is going to give up a lot for a guy who is a legal and suspension risk each season).
He’s a fine receiver. But possession receivers aren’t too hard to come by. Marshall had solid stats, but also had a QB that was over focused on him too.
Marshall has shown himself to be a thug on several occassions. The high legal standard is for the courts. Plain “common sense” shows that the guy has a track record of getting into trouble (even dating back to the D Will shooting). In my job, I can point to many people found “not guilty” who abuse the legal system and victimize people on a consistent basis. “Not guilty” is fine for the lawyer types, but it is only a legal term. You can be “responsible” for a crime, but not be found guilty in a room full of ivory tower (though neccassary) rules. This, much in the same way that a person can be clearly “mentaly ill” in a medical context, but be “sane” in a legal context.
In Marshall’s case, his consistent legal problems are only half of the story – in the last few weeks the guy has thumbed his nose at the team too many times.
So yeah. I’m on the record (after over a year of having my patience tried). I’ve been fed up, but tried to strike a tone of “let’s see if he can change”. Not gonna happen. Marshall is a drag on this team, and needs to go.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 22, 2009 1:22 PM MDT reply actions 7 recs
HT
I agree with everything you say here, except the trade value. I think there will be a team stupid enough to throw something Denver’s way.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Welcome to the firstfan point of view.
And if the Broncos would have listened to the old guy 18 months ago we could have got a #1, a #5 and a solid receiver for him. Now his value is greatly diminished.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on Aug 22, 2009 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
FF
You mean we should have traded him before the beginning of last season?
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
I, uh, agreed with you last year didn't I? ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
As I recall
you were the one to give Marshall the moniker “The Beast” and you thought I was a boob for even suggesting a trade.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
Guru may have something here with the 'smoke screen' theory.
Devious underhanded coaching strategy…I love it. Sock ‘em in the mouth when they’re least expecting it. Brilliant!!!
The smoke screen theory
is a desperation attempt at clinging to the last “possible” positive outcome. New contract or not, Marshall has no intention of playing for The Broncos. He will either be traded for a journey man player or, perhaps more likely, he will be cut before the start of the season.
by warmick on Aug 22, 2009 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong and wrong.
Do you guys want to make BM happy and cut him?
Thank goodness some of you guys don’t run the Broncos.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
If you don't cut him
you have to pay him but more importantly, you have to waste a roster spot on him that can be used instead on someone who will help the team. Yes, cutting him is just what he wants but The Broncos can’t jeopardize the interest of the team just to teach this clown a lesson. Marshall, of couse, will quickly be picked up by another team but he will not be getting the fat contract he foolishly envision.
Can't disagree more
Cutting him makes no sense at all to me. If the Broncos decide that they don’t want Marshall around, then all they have to do is lower the standards of their trade offers. They are clearly not in a ‘just get rid of him’ mode, or he would be gone to the highest bidder. Cutting him leaves the team getting no value where they certainly can get something. Whether they simply haven’t gotten an offer they deem worthy, or they have no intention of trading him, they aren’t idiots, they won’t let a ferrari roll off the lot for free.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
That is naive
Marshall would score a $10MM deal within 24 hours of being cut by Denver. There are dozens of owners that would sell their soul to Satan to win the Super Bowl. If Pac Man and Vick get picked up, BM would too.
Do kid yourself. Cutting BM would make him one of the richest players in the NFL for the 2009 season.
BM won’t get cut. Worst case scenario is that we suspend him for the year and put a 1st round restriction on him next offseason and what the feeding frenzy to sign the guy.
BM makes $2.2MM per year. That’s chump change and we could probably go after some of that money based on bad boy carveouts in NFL contracts. Besides, we paid Bly at $10mm last season to give WRs 15 yard cushions on 3rd and 4.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
by McGeorge on Aug 22, 2009 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very good point
If Pac Man and Vick get picked up, BM would too.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
Don't think with your heart, think with your head
There are some really sharp Bronco fans at MHR (much smarter than me) that are talking crazy today. It’s almost painful to read.
Cut BM???? That is exactly what BM wants and would be sending the worst possible signal about McDaniels and his ability to handle conflict effectively.
I give McDaniels full credit so far with his handling of BM in that Josh has not pushed the panic button when Denver holds all the leverage over Marshall. Good job Josh, I may have some hope in you yet.
Cutting BM gives all the leverage back to BM and would make Denver the laughing stalk of the NFL (and this time, rightfully so).
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Agreed
Do not cut him…diminished value still represents value. Cutting him has no value. Man I wish I worked for the Broncos and was privy to all sorts of insider information.
by T.Dot_Bronco on Aug 22, 2009 5:24 PM MDT up reply actions
I usually rail on McDaniels, but in this instance, I am the one coming to his defense and his usual supporters at MHR (I not sure they recognize this) are not letting Josh see his course of action to fruition.
McDaniels is showing patience and preference with BM. I believe Josh will wait BM out unless some team knocks his socks off with a trade proposal. And keeping BM away from the team limits his ability to “be a distraction” so I don’t have a problem with that either. Makes sense to me.
BM loves money and he’ll miss that $2.2MM if he continues to be a problem and we have to suspend him. I don’t think BM will be a 100 catch receiver in 2009 because I don’t think he’ll play as hard as he can, but he’ll come around an extent because he wants to get paid.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
How to suspend him?
That’s an interesting dilemna. If he shows up for workouts and games, on what basis can the Broncos suspend him? As long as he goes through the motions.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
I’m sure they can find something in his contract, but that one is for the insiders to know/decide.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
We agree on this too McGeorge . . . Oh Oh!
Cutting him would be the dumbest things the Broncos could do. He would be in the starting rotation of another team within hours. That is just foolish talk.
I would hope that the Broncos put him on the PUP (Player Unable to Perform) list. All they need is to have their medical staff say his hip is not ready for the season. End of story!
Other option . . . TO him (suspend him like the Eagles did to TO).
Either way, it would be completely stupid of the Broncos to cut him. Hold him until some idiot VP gives up a ton for him . . . injuries do happen!
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
When the Eagles suspended TO
They also paid him his contract amount, altho I’m not sure they had to.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
I would assume it'd be something like:
Committing acts detrimental to team success.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Which would lead to arbitration
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
Someone had mentioned the "detrimental to success" line earlier...
that’s where I got it from and at this point, if he doesn’t just fold and do some extra credit and start studying the freaking playbook and practicing hard again, he’s going to find that he’ll be suspended or benched and the coaches won’t talk to him or try and help him either. Not until he decides to be a part of the team again.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
I would like to point out something important
McG used “Josh” and “McDaniels” in the same post.
Holy cr@p!! :D
by AllBroncsallday on Aug 22, 2009 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Its taken awhile
But he’s coming around
"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me
Yep...I also noted this a few days ago
He’s been doing it for almost a week now, little by little…
My heart is with HT on this…But my brain is with McG…McDaniels needs to stick to his guns and not let BM and his actions deter from the task at hand…If he comes around, great, if not let him stew in obscurity…
by BroncoSense72 on Aug 23, 2009 7:47 AM MDT up reply actions
As a businessman, coach, manager, or owner...
…BM’s feelings have nothing to do with my bottom line. I don’t care if BM gets what he wants. I care that the team improves.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 26, 2009 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions
A big -1
HoosierTeacher: I know we are fans of the same team but other than that, we don’t see eye to eye of much of anything.
Cutting Marshall? That’s absurd. You might not like the drama, but you’re nothing thinking logically. Cutting BM would be exactly what would make BM the most happy and get Denver NOTHING in return. BM would get a huge new deal (with all the cap room KC has, they’d sign him in a heart beat) and go on to make some other team better.
If you were thinking logically, you’d ask: What would Denver get if we traded BM? My guess is draft picks.
If all we’d get is draft picks for the 2010 draft, couldn’t we just as easily get draft picks for the 2010 draft in we traded BM in March or April of 2010 vs trading him today. Why give another team BM for the 2009 (and let him get a huge new deal) when we can make him sit for 2009 and get the same value in seven months?
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
by McGeorge on Aug 22, 2009 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let's talk logic
Cutting BM would be exactly what would make BM the most happy…
I’m here to win ball games and make money (as a manager or coach). Marshall’s feelings have no impact on my logical reasoning.
… and get Denver NOTHING in return
Unlike the Madden franchise (where the neighbor kid tells me you can wheel and deal your way to pro-bowlers at every position), I think we are in a different context. Marshall’s constant problems (injuries, self-inflicted injuries, legal scrapes, suspensions and threats of suspensions, hold out threats, etc) have dropped his value to the point that his trade worth doesn’t match his on field value. As a cancer in a locker room of new and young players (that need to place their loyalty with the coach), Marshall becomes more a hinderance than a help at this stage.
I’m sure the neighbor kid could get some draft picks for BM, but my own opinion is that we can’t. Heck, I don’t even see Marvin Harrison getting any looks. I know we disagree, and I know my opinion is just that (opinion). But I don’t see the lack of logic in my reasoning.
Spock? Is (MHR member) Spock here? A little help? (lol)
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 26, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
+1 HT, I've said the same thing.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
HT
It is interesting that you made a statement that has not really mentioned.
“He’s a fine receiver. But possession receivers aren’t too hard to come by. Marshall had solid stats, but also had a QB that was over focused on him too.”
I keep hearing about him playing the Randy Moss role in this offense BUT Randy Moss is much better going deep. I think Brandon is a possession receiver and in that sense in this offense other guys can do what he did in catches BUT his size and strength give Brandon an advantage. That advantage means nothing if he is not interested in being an integral part of our team.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 22, 2009 7:44 PM MDT up reply actions
To me...
…what makes BM so special is that he has all of the skills of a solid, possession receiver, but he has the power to run any DB over once he makes his first move after the catch. As a player, the guy is great. But as a potential locker room cancer, he does more harm than good.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 26, 2009 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Media savvy
Josh McDaniels has been schooled by some of the most media-savvy coaches in the business
He may know “what” to say, but does he really know “how” to say it? I’m not so sure about that. He looks as comfortable in front of the camera as a kid going to class for the very first time.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
we're seeing different things..
he seems cool and collect to me…especially for someone his age (my age)…
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Unknown, Hanlon's Razor
I agree with propheteer. I think McDaniels looks tense and standoffish in front of the cameras. He lacks charisma.
I also think this uptight image is the one he is trying to display. As young as he is, would it look better if he appeared relaxed and almost aloof?
It’s better to have a prick that knows what he is doing than a charmer that doesn’t.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
hahahaha
I laughed pretty good at that last comment.
I think when he does those interviews at practice, it’s a case of bad timing. He’s in the zone! It’s pretty clear that he goes to a whole different level when he’s on the field. He looks pissed all the time, but I think he’s just focused. Woody Paige did an interview with him a few weeks ago and he seemed very at ease and relaxed. The interview was a planned interview that wasn’t so much about the game plan, but more about who McDaniels is as a person—-which may be why he was more relaxed.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Lacks charisma?
I think that question should be posed to the players and front office personnel…. I think they’d disagree with you. He blew Mr Bowlen away with more than his football smarts. You don’t hand over this organization to someone who doesn’t have the “IT” factor.
I think he’s coming into his own. Here’s what he’s not: he’s not a country bumpkin like Steve Spurrier who made a joke out of himself when he was in the league, he’s not Dick Vermiel crying every single press conference, he’s not Brian Billick (thank god!) acting as if he’s god gift to football, etc… What he is: a young coach who HAS A PLAN that he’s trying to execute. We may or may not agree with said plan, but the fact is that he does in fact have one. Time will tell…
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Unknown, Hanlon's Razor
Was that aimed at my comment?
If it was, it had no relation to what I said.
McDaniels does lack charisma, but so does his mentor Bilicheat. Bilicheat has three rings he can make anyone kiss if folks want to question his coaching skills.
Again, I’d rather have a prick that knows what he is doing than a charmer that doesn’t. McDaniels is no charmer. He strikes me as a prick, but he also strikes me as someone with a detailed plan.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
by McGeorge on Aug 22, 2009 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Help me out here...
So are you saying he has a detailed prick? Charming!
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 26, 2009 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd be tense and standoffish, too.
He probably gets tired of the same old questions day after day. No, he isn’t going to tell them whats wrong with ‘insert player here’. No, he is not going to air the dirty Marshall laundry in public. No, he doesn’t think his team sucks. No, he doesn’t expect to be awful. Yes, he likes competition at every position. Yes, Peyton Hillis is a nice player.
I just covered the last 15 pressers. They know the answers, yet they keep asking and asking and asking.
I admire his ability to not tell them to quit wasting his valuable time.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 11 recs
Rec'd PO
I’m amazed that McD shows any smiles at all given the way he’s been treated by reporters — as you pointed out, being asked the same question repeatedly wears thin after a while.
I keep going back to the interview during the JC affair when (I believe it was on the NFL network) the interviewer kept repeating the question “Is Cutler the quarterback?” in what appeared to be an effort to get an answer that was different from McD’s “He’s the quarterback.”
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Aug 22, 2009 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, this explains the eternal expression of Bill Belicheck.
"How dare you condemn me without knowing all the facts?!!"
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 22, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
If Cable's overweight
then I’m anorexic.
That guy is pure obese. No denying or arguing that.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Trying to be nice
Fat-a** was the first term that came to mind!
That guy IS one of the Oakland hills. lol.
replace John Goodman and this video still works...
not for those with <PG-13 senses of humor.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Unknown, Hanlon's Razor
But John Goodman
has done some great movies. What has Cable done for me lately… oh yeah making the Faders even worse. Glen Coffee is eating them for dinner right now on my TV.
I think he looks playful and happy when I have seen him interviewed
I just think he has a lot on his mind about his team and what to do next and to sit there and answer over and over the same questions from “Dum Dum” Dave Krieger or Woody “I am pouting” Paige and the other writers is a waste of his time but a necessary function of his job.
The questions are always the same. The questions are usually baiting and the answers they hope to get they aren’t going to.
So whatever demeanor he shows I think he is laughing on the inside that this rag tag group of typing class dropouts has the audacity to try to talk pro football when most of them couldn’t run a lap or understand the index to the playbook. ;-)
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 22, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions
treat him like a child
i remember as a kid if i behaved in any way, shape, or form like marshall does i would have got sent to my room, grounded, or a spanking, or any combination of the 3. since he is now above the legal age, i think it’s about time dad (bowlen) sits him down and has a talk with him. i vote for grounding him to the tune of 2 yrs. final year of contract plus franchise next year unless he gets out on the field and re-establishes himself as a force so he’ll have some value as a trade. then i say trade this problem child.
Sad
Hard to look at this situation and feel optimistic about BMarsh being here long term.
Here’s hoping that however it works out, we end up better as a team (at least in the long term).
[sigh]
Kyle Orton needs to play well tonight. If he doesn’t you MHR’s can be assured he will be the target of a down pouring of boos when he takes the field vs Chicago next week and so will McDaniels.
The Coach has bigger things to worry about in Seattle than whether Marshall gets in a few plays in preseason game 2. He needs to get his QB right. Everyone knows what Marshall can do on a football field. If we don’t see BM vs Chicago, I’ll wonder what the plan is, but I still think the plan is to sit tight and wait BM out. It’s a good plan – ignore him. Those at the DP and MHR are freaking out over it, but I doubt the organization cares what people are writing in the papers and in the blogs. Especially when pretty much everyone agrees Denver is doing the right thing.
Now if a national TV audience sees/hears Denver boo their QB and coach in next week’s game, that is an incident that would not sit well with Pat. The BM situation is a nuisance, but I bet Dove Valley is a lot more concerned about next weeks game and how it will reflect upon the organization.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
by McGeorge on Aug 22, 2009 1:32 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
McGeorge
you and I do not agree a lot but I think here we do!
The Coach has bigger things to worry about in Seattle than whether Marshall gets in a few plays in preseason game 2. He needs to get his QB right.
Not saying Orton isnt progressing but the quarterback situation needs to be solidified by the end of this game.
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 22, 2009 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep. And having BM in there as a possible distraction won’t help Orton. If Orton plays poorly tonight, McDaniels has a serious problem on his hands.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
My sense is
that all McD wants to see is improvement from his QB – with hopes that he can find a playbook that works for coach, QB and scheme. Next week, I suspect, is a similar thing – as long as they approaching that happy medium the organization won’t be complaining.
If Orton throws out a clunker on opening day, then, Houston, we’ve got a problem.
Orton throws out a bunch of clunkers in preseason, what are the chances he plays well in week 1?
Orton better show significant improvement over the next two games are Simms will be playing QB vs Cincy.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
If the playbook is exactly the same
the chances are high.
I am saying I think the playbook changes, to give him and the team the best chance of success. You know, as if the coach’s goal was to win…
It wasn’t the play calling that got Orton all twisted last week. The play calling was pretty good.
It was his terrible mechanics and his lack of poise that doomed his 1st game as a Bronco. Not a good sign.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I'm pretty sure that mechanics can be corrected.
Plus, some of his mistakes came from mis-communication. I’m not making any judgements until Week 1 of the regular season.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
My only judgment of Orton is that he played like absolute GARBAGE last week. Today is another day.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I was at the game
and I disagree. I saw some things from him I really liked. He led, but didn’t finish some good drives, had a great connection with Royal and threw some flat out good balls on reads out of a variety of complex formations.
He made some terrible throws too – believe me sitting in a sea of red, my neighbors let me know how much “garbage” they saw – mostly based on some bad mechanics and poor pocket presence.
Through your pessimist glasses, you saw that as a indictment of his, and the coach’s chance of success. Through my orange tinted glasses I saw that as a new quarterback not yet comfortable in what was clearly a terribly complex offense.
Time will tell whose outlook is closer to reality – but in the meantime I will happily follow and applaud my team while you hang around here feeling bad about them and trying to convince us all to moan as well. Even if I turn out wrong, I am pleased to be living the former rather than the latter.
Also. . .
remember he came from a team in which he had barely anytime to throw before he was anniliated by the opposing defense. He is trying to adjust to the fact that he ACTUALLY has an incredible line in front of him. His happy feet and mechanics will get better with time. His mechanics are a result of poor coaching and lack of offensive line in Chicago. McDaniels will get him on the right track.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
It's not like 20 other starters in the NFL haven't struggled a little these past 2 weeks.
Enough is enough with this Orton bashing! He’ll be there when it counts so get off of his back already. That’s pure childest rambling…go sit in your corner until you behave!!! LMAOROF
for the record
I think he will do just fine! Simms looked impressive albiet from a vanilla playbook. I think we are more secure than people may think but you can bet on a run heavy offense this year!
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 22, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions
A fun heavy offense would be a awful waste of the talents of the best pass blocking O-line in the NFL and great receiving threats like Royal, BM, Scheff, Hillis, Stokley, Moreno and Graham.
I’m not nearly as excited about Buckhalter, Jordan, Moreno. They are not the strength of this team, not by a long shot.
If McDaniels is run heavy coach in 2009, we’ve got a dumber coach than I already think he is.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I don't think we'll be run "heavy"
more like run “explosive”. What I mean by that is we will use the run game to wear down a defense right away, then air it out a bit second quarter. Then run it down their throats again in the 3rd quarter, and depending on where we are in the game, either air it out or tote the rock in the 4th.
Obviously not to a tee, but I think the plan will be to keep defenders on their heels for 4 quarters and not let up.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Agree not run heavy,,but with Hillis and Moreno..
McG you pointed out at least to me, we have two excellant receivers and from what I am seeing North to South running backs.
This has the potential to be a defensive coach’s nightmare. 3 wideouts, 2 tightends, and a running back that could be a sixth reciever. Do you bring in the nickle or play the back to run? I don’t have the answer but I bet we see a lot of different looks for the pass and the run this year.
Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans
but I WANT the fun-heavy offense!!
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
by Broncs Cheer on Aug 22, 2009 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions
The last practice
they did show some flea flickers, HB pass-backs, etc. Oh yeah – FUN heavy.
Could generate some new and exciting commentary:
“Fun it down their throats, Hillis”
“The fun game is really working today”
“When the fun is having success, McD can really open things up”
“The fun D is fantastic”
“Wow, in a pinch Orton can fun a little”
by jonahsilas on Aug 22, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
fun heavy offense… I guess I mistakenly stumbled onto that. I want a Bronco fun heavy offense as well.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I want a fun heavy life.
It doesn’t stop at the Broncos for me. hahah
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
you have to set up the pass and te best way to do that is an effective run game
I would much rather have 3-5 guys split 50-60 carries a game than have my QB drop back to throw 50-60 times. Ideally I would love to have 3-5 split 50 carries and the QB only have to throw it 30 times!
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 22, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t mind Moreno getting 20 carries and Hillis 5-10, but I don’t want Buck and Jordan to take another 20 to 25. We’d be much better off getting the ball to our WRs.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I think Buck is a pure game pace guy.
He’s meant to just throw things off for the defense on occasion. As for Jordan, I still don’t think he’ll make it to week 1.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
So who gets 50 carries?
Moreno is not a huge guy and he is already hurt. Maybe he can handle 20 per game. Hillis should get another 5 or so (I bet he gets 5 other targets as a WR and should). Does Buckhalter get 15 to 20 carries?
I hope not!
McDaniels uses a lot of short passes and I’d much rather we pass to our 1st rate receiving threats than give our opponents a heavy dose of a 2nd tier running game.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I think 20 carries will be spread all around tonight
Darius Walker, Lamont Jordan, etc.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Prediction
We will see Buchalter in motion and then splitting out wide creating 4 and 5 wide out sets. Remember, you heard it here first.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
You have a number?
I thought people like you could only be reached when the commissioner used a giant searchlight to project a signal into the night sky…
I don’t like Goodell. He acts like he is the King and the fact that he makes something like $20mm per year is outrageous.
So I wouldn’t respond to that.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Life's expensive living in NYC
It’s merely just an adjusting rate of pay given his area. haha.
Goodell is a good commissioner. Remember, we could have David Stern as a commissioner. The NBA has been a laughing stock for years now and it’s not changing anytime soon. Between fan/player riots, owners insulting fans and players, and Mark Cuban….I’d rather have Goodell.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
I just have to say
I love the banter from you two. It makes for such great reading without ever getting out of hand.
Needless to say McGeorge, you make a lot of good points, even if I do not agree with you on many of them. This offense was built around the strong arm of Cutler, but with a regime change and QB change, a shift in play calling has to be expected.
What I expect to see from Orton tonight is a real focus on mechanics, whether it be getting his feet planted at the cost of getting walloped, or just all around pocket presence, coming to trust his O-line. Remember that he was not a mistake prone QB with a lesser offensive line. If he can figure these two things out before the start of the season than I do not see him losing the starting position.
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Aug 22, 2009 5:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Hopefully the O Line sat him down this week and said something like this:
“Chill the f*** out, we got this!”
pardon the french but that’s probably exactly what happened.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Wow
If McDaniels is run heavy coach in 2009, we’ve got a dumber coach than I already think he is.
Dumb?
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 22, 2009 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
Doubt we will see 65/35 pass/run breakdown like we did in the first half of last weeks game all season. Orton should be fine – I think McD just wants to see what he can do. Like a race car driver with his new vehicle – might spin it out a few times trying to test its capabilities.
My gut tells me that...
…we’re gonna see Orton working the wrinkle Simms worked last week and vise-versa. My gut also tells me that Orton will look really good and Simms will struggle. What’s got lost in all the rush to judge Orton is the fact that he was running a highly complex variation of the Denver spread attack, while Simms got to try to capitalize on making smart decisions with his shots in a run heavy attack.
We’ll see, though.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
None of what you say got lost in a rush to judge Orton.
Orton was judged poorly because he made several terrible throws, including three picks. Throws where he had time and space to make a play, but didn’t.
I’m accused of being too quick to judge, but MHR is far too quick to excuse the inexcusable. Orton needs to play much better tonight. PERIOD! He needs to display better: footwork, accuracy, resiliency, arm strength, decision making and poise.
I hope he plays better, he was a pretty good QB in Chicago so I know he has it in him. If he doesn’t start making it happen tonight (after a good week in practice) it will be time to get Simms some extensive work with the #1s.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Enough already...
Quit portraying yourself as the “Voice of Reason” in a sea of unrealistic fans. Did you read what I wrote after the game last week? Orton was bad, his mechanics were of and thus the results were unacceptable. What is this, “MHR is far too quick to excuse the inexcusable.”?
That said, you dismiss the Marshall situation as “drama”, while proclaiming that Orton must play to some level of expectation or McDaniels(who you already have labeled as “dumb”) will have a big problem on his hands. So I ask, before we get to the game, what is acceptable to you? No TO’s? Lots of points? Better mechanics?
Thirdly, I could care less who the QB is to start the season. I want the best guy out there September 13th, and from what I have seen from this coach, unlike the last one who liked to play favorites, that WILL be the case.
Then, lastly, you don’t want the Broncos to be “run heavy”, yet give Cutler a complete pass on last season’s collapse because the Broncos had “no running game”. So, I think it would benefit the Broncos, who are now so weak at QB in your eyes, to HAVE a strong running game since that is why Cutler, in large part, failed last season.
Enough lumping though, please. EVERY Broncos fan is welcome here, and you certainly aren’t alone in your skepticism of the QB play.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
by John Bena on Aug 22, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions 7 recs
“Quit portraying yourself as the "Voice of Reason" in a sea of unrealistic fans”
That is priceless John Bena. This is exactly how I see several of the MHR portraying themselves regarding the topic of the MSM, Denver media/Denver Post bloggers railing on McDaniels, Orton, Bowlen and the direction of this team.
Now look, several of you guys love to point out MSM group-think regarding Denver and I AGREE (I AGREE!!!) with many of your view points because I don’t think the MSM is giving Denver a fair shake.
But IMO, there is also group-think at MHR. There is rationalizing of every decision McDaniels has made since he became the coach. I believe there are quite a few at MHR that have a tendency to see what they want to see more so than they are seeing what is real.
BWT: I expect to see Orton play much better tonight. He’s been good in Chicago so I don’t see why he can’t be good in Denver. I like him and I want him to play well. I want him to beat out Simms since I think it would be crazy to play a lefty QB with Clady at LT. And I don’t think Simms is the next Steve Young either.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Interesting point
on the Simms and Clady. Now that’s logical thinking in my book.
John hasn't portrayed himself as anything but what he is
An unusually well-informed fan. I’ve read hi stuff for the past 21 yards, and while both he and I are fine when we disagree, he’s generally quite reasonable. You’re changing the subject, McG. He’s also right – you do seem to be pushing your opinion that way.
There is a huge difference between considered attempts to see the reasons why someone does things and ‘rationalizing’. There are a lot of different opinions on this site. The fact that some on both poles like pushing their beliefs in discourse doesn’t indicate any single overwhelming perspective, but a variety of approaches.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
“There are a lot of different opinions on this site”.
I respectfully disagree.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
That's two right there
"There are a lot of different opinions on this site".
I respectfully disagree.
And I make three. How many do you need for “a lot”?
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
I like your stuff McGeorge...
…and have great respect for your opininion. But there is a difference between being optimistic and ‘rationalizing’ things into how one wants it to be.
I believe based on past track record and some compelling argument at MHR that Orton can succeed. I want him to succeed. That doesn’t mean I’m pulling hope out of the sky and making myself believe in Kyle Orton.
Nor am I sold on the Broncos front seven or Alphonso Smith. But I am optimistic based on the information I’ve come across.
Optimism isn’t necessarily and euphamism for imaginationland.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Using imaginationland against me. Good one. I loved those episodes.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
A little sensitive, perhaps?
I didn’t view that sentence as a weapon to deploy against you. Just saying that optimism doesn’t equate to blindness.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 6:10 PM MDT up reply actions
And so too
Realism does not equate to pessimism. Just because you are highly critical of something does not in anyway mean you are more realistic. Well said, PO.
No, not at all...
What I am, and what this site is at its core, is a representation of what my opinion is regarding the Broncos on a daily basis. I can’t and won’t speak for the Fan Post or Fan Shot section because that is fair game, and I feel I have brought on board a solid and diverse group on contributors to give varying viewpoints.
There are other sites dedicated to the Broncos, and I would encourage anyone who doesn’t feel like there is a voice for them to start their own site, but this is a Blog, run by me, with a ton of help of the community, and it will always be the home of my opinion. I’m not rationalizing McDaniels because I AGREE with many of the decisions he has made. I DIDN’T LIKE CUTLER!!! I supported him as I would any Broncos QB but he always rubbed me the wrong way on and off the field. Was I sorry to see him go, I can’t say that I was!
Speaking specifically about Marshall, I was ready to blast McDaniels for the whole scout team deal UNTIL I heard Marshall’s comments about not knowing the playbook. At that point I had to agree with McD because I would have done the same thing, talent be damned! Why? Because I owe it to the 79 other guys that are busting their ass to reward them, not allow one player to be above the team!
You bring alot to the site, McGeorge, and I mean that, and I know you aren’t a big supporter of McDaniels, and that is OK! I just wish you wouldn’t turn everything into an “Us Vs. Them” mentality. You are not “wrong” for your opinions, but neither am I and we want the same thing…I hope!
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
by John Bena on Aug 22, 2009 6:54 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
I couldn't agree with this statement more . . .
I DIDN’T LIKE CUTLER!!! I supported him as I would any Broncos QB but he always rubbed me the wrong way on and off the field. Was I sorry to see him go, I can’t say that I was!
I never liked him or his smug attitude. He NEVER showed me he was a team player.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
For the record.
I have yet to say that Orton is going to become Tom Brady. In fact, I’ve never expressed an preference between Simms and Orton. My only point was— Orton had the tougher game plan against the better opponents. He wasn’t great, no dbout. However, I didn’t expect him to be great.
All I’m saying is that I think (hope) both QB’s will execute a different ‘omeba’ than the one they did last week. Maybe Simms is the answer. Maybe he’ll bite hard running a spread. Either way, its too early to judge either.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 3:39 PM MDT up reply actions
I posted this in another thread...
…but in an a radio interview yesterday, Tony Scheffler said the offense is just now getting to plays directed toward the tight ends — and that Orton is really picking things up fast.
The players, who have the benefit of seeing just how much is required of the QBs in this offense, don’t seem to be panicking about Orton. Neither does McDaniels. Scheffler noted that on every play Orton has to direct the line, find the WILL linebacker, and adjust the play to the defense. All pre-snap.
The players are behind Orton.
That tells me something.
Several sources also noted how much better Orton is playing as he picks up the approach
They’re also mentioned that it appears to be one of the most complex in the NFL. Given McDaniels’ history, that’s not surprising. It’s also pretty standard to be overthinking as you learn a system. If Orton plays poorly in a month, that would be different. Struggling on some of his passes – while looking very good on others – is just normal for this stage in the process.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
People fail to mention...
If we’re bashing Orton for his play, why is nobody bashing Cutler for his? Did he not have a lower QB rating than Orton in his first game?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Aug 22, 2009 5:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Cutler got railed right good for his play last Saturday. He got it here, he got it at the DP and he got it in Chicago.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
The really crappy thing though...
People are willing to give Cutler time because he has a new offense and new receivers to learn.
Kyle Orton doesn’t have that same luxury because most Bronco fans are so against him for no reason at all.
I really hate that Orton is getting all the backlash from the trade. It’s not like he sat there and told Angelo “You know what, F this town, I want to go to Denver.”
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
It's not for no reason, though...
…instead, it’s because of all the wink-wink nod-nod “he sucks” subtext that we get from both the local and national media.
And that comes because of the Cutler trade.
It’s unfair to Orton, and it doesn’t speak well about our fans or our local football “experts.”
When I hear those fans call for Ortons head
I want to hang my head in shame because I am forced to be a fan of the same team they are.
Sometimes, I wish the bandwagon fans would shut the….
you know.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
McGeorge
Sometimes I wonder what you are implying but I agree 100% with this statement.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 22, 2009 7:35 PM MDT up reply actions
My Idea
I’m thinking Denver gave the agent the OK to talk to other teams. They told him what they’d like in a trade. Now either the agent will get a trade done or Marshall will have to accept Denver. This might be some of the trust issue is that they Don’t believe Denver is trying to make a trade. Interesting to see how it all works out.
"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me
Don't know if that's the case
but it would help explain Marshall being on the sidelines, literally and figuratively. When Guru mentioned that the open phase was over and that now the team was beginning to gameplan for the season, that made me think. If Marshall isn’t expected to be a part of this team, if a trade is in the works, they don’t want to risk an injury and they (probably) don’t want him taking too much knowledge of the offense with him to his new team. Not saying it’ll happen that way and I still hope it doesn’t, but it’s a possibility.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I would say
that when I read Fatsis book, he seemed to indicate that teams use preseason game film to analyze any player subject to a trade scenario. Brandon hasn’t played yet, so I’m thinking a trade is still unlikely at this time.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
by KaptainKirk on Aug 22, 2009 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why haven't I read that yet!?
I even scored a signed copy at a going out of business sale here in SF. Dang hardcovers are hard to read on the train to work, though, when the bulk of my reading gets done.
Your breadth of knowledge wows me Kirk. Thx for sharing!
You should read it ASAP...
If you want some insight as to why Cutler and Shannahan are gone, there is plenty in the Fastis book…nothing damning specific, but very evident between the lines.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Seconded
I can’t say enough positive things about that book for Bronco fans- really, really, really great stuff.
by AllBroncsallday on Aug 22, 2009 7:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I checked it out at the library
I had to go to 3 different branches to track it down, but it was worth it. It is a fairly easy read and very insightful. I definitely recommend it for ALL football fans.
Sometimes my memory works, and sometimes I’m using too much RAM. Lol
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Time to upgrade
Or maybe look at a newer motherboard and chipset!
What I have read so far of Fastis book was very accessible. Almost like that last bit of some tasty treat on the plate, I keep saving it for later. But later maybe needs to be now!
Call Me Naive...
…But I have a hard time believing B-Marsh gets traded. McDaniels did trade Cutler, but that was before the draft when he could get picks in return to help the team this season. If we trade B-Marsh now, we will only be getting future draft picks. If it is true and B-Marsh doesn’t know the playbook, then it is in his interest to stay home, watch film and get a grasp on the playbook. Going to Seattle to stand and watch is pointless and it does him no good to go against 3-4th string players. Plus, if they were shopping him, then somebody in the media would have broken this story by now. On Thursday News4 also said the Marshall had a heart to heart conversation after practice with the receivers coach. My best guess is that he stays with Denver and gets a new contract by October as long as he produces and stays out of trouble
I don't think that you are naive.
I think that we would be willing to trade him, but, like you said, not for draft picks at this time of year. That is, unless Chad Jackson or someone else has taken the next step and we just aren’t tracking it. But I don’t think that is the case. If we trade him now, I think we are looking for a player or player-pick combo. I just can’t imagine what teams have to offer that we would be interested in. The only think that I have been able to come up with is a three way trade involving us getting Boldin.
by Orange Crush II on Aug 22, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions
If boldin was avialable,
The other team would just go ahead and take him. BMarsh stilll has all the issues. Why would anyone participate in a trade like that?
He will stay with the team because there is no market for him out there that brings any value back to the Broncos.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
Just don't send him to Chicago
I’m tired of rewarding bad behavior. Send him to Detroit or St. Louis.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Aug 22, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is trying to get cut
Isn’t a hamstring one of the easiest injuries to fake. Nothing an MRI can show, no visible bruises, etc. A player just says he’s hurt. A player is hurt all preseason, doesn’t get a chance to play and is cut. Unfortunately see Torain.
He won’t learn the playbook. A player doesn’t know the plays, thus he can’t contrbute to the team and he gets cut. I really think this is what he is doing. I think it will backfire in a major way. He won’t get cut, but he thinks they will have no choice. The question is what do you do with a player you can’t put on the practice squad, because he won’t pass waivers, but that you don’t want on the sidelines? A player who refuses to work, but is under contract. Any answers?
They can suspend him.
That way they aren’t out a roster spot, and Marshall is out a paycheck for the year. If I understand that right, I could be wrong though.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
One thing that hasn't been mentioned
as an explanation for Brandon “It’s not about money” Marshall’s intransigeance is the possibility that he sees the handwriting on the wall and doesn’t want to play second fiddle to Royal, who I think will be our best WR this year whether or not Marshall plays.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Aug 22, 2009 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
A possible rehash of the Lelie issue
That is a possibility.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
Thanks Guru, rec'd
This article is a classic example of what happens when we pull the trigger too quickly on giving an opinion.
I written opinions regarding the Marshall situation that were based on incomplete information, which you thoughtfully provided in this post. The onus is now on me to evaluate my opinion in light of the new info.
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
This just in
“Brandon Marshall has asked for an official apology from the Broncos and the people at MHR for repeatedly referring to him as ‘BM’. Marshall has accepted being called ‘15’, ‘BMarsh’ or simply ‘Marshall’. But he will take legal action if in the future he is referred to in the acronym that makes people think of poo.” — Press Release from Kennard McGuire.
by underdog on Aug 22, 2009 2:49 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Not Worried
I am actually not worried about this situation. Of the 2 real solutions to this issue, I think the Broncos will get something from both. If they keep Marshall, our offensive attack will be even more powerful and when the season starts he will know he is a Bronco for this year and will put on a show to get a contract next year. If we end up trading him, Xanders will maximize his value, hopefully get a 1st and 3rd or 4th (the teams I have heard wanting him should be decent teams this year, meaning it will be at the end of the first round and therefore keeping costs down for the pick) and we can continue to build a great young core. In my eyes, we win both ways. Just makes for some interesting drama before the season!
I like this attitude...
and it’s true enough that the team holds all the cards. It’s just that all this drama is enough to try one’s patience !!
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
by Broncs Cheer on Aug 22, 2009 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Two possibilities for Marshall not being in Seattle
1. He’s been dogging it in a manner obvious to the coaches, so he’s being shown the dog house.
2. The Broncos have reached an agreement with another team for a trade, which is contingent on the other team reaching a new contract with Marshall and Marshall passing a physical. It would be interesting to know where Marshall is right now.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
Thanks for the new angles to view this from
The keep him out till it counts like they did with Moss in NE is a very interesting angle. I can’t help but wonder if it is a security blanket thing.
Forcing Orton/Brady to develop his other pass options before giving him the near sure thing option of Marshall/Moss, could lead to spreading the ball around better than we saw last year, when Cutler’s chemistry with Marshall seemed to undermine our version of the spread.
Or maybe Spock was correct with the ’Brandon’s worried about the number of times he’ll be targeted’ angle.
There are a lot of rational possibilities here for us to speculate about, but there are no sure things. The only things I would be disappointed by at this point would be seeing him benched all year, or being cut. Neither gets the organization value for one of the best receivers in the game.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
Apparently I'm in the minority
I don’t agree that Marshall is “100% Healthy”. My understanding is that it takes 6-12 months post surgery for that to occur. And I think the Marshall situation is being handled as it should be; Tough love.
The TEAM likely feels as if it will own rights to Brandon Marshall for two or three years. He is out of legal trouble (for now). He’s healthy enough to practice and even play. So, my guess is that from a business standpoint, the team has decided to play hardball with Brandon until he stops pouting and starts performing, thereby increasing his value, at which point he will be traded or extended.
I just think the team realizes that Marshall will come around when he realizes he has no other outs. He’s just being immature and small minded, but eventually he’s going to want his game checks. Why trade him today if you can get more value tomorrow? Why not apply more pressure by leaving him home to mope instead of coddling him on a road game that he won’t even play in?
I was optimistic with Cutler--so why should I change.
I can’t help but hope for the best, but I also agree with Zappa………I just want it over.
For the first time I am experiencing a thought that something is really wrong. BigBlueShoe at Stampede Blue (Indy’s SBN site) did a piece during the Cutler debacle that I hope is not prophetic. I will try to find a link and post it as a reply to this comment.
BigBlue talked about the poison that Bill Belichick is spreading through the league and used the ‘Cutler’ situation to make his case.
I really believe Brandon is a good kid that just got off to a rough start when given money. I hope BigBlue wasn’t prophetic and that a dose of that poison is now running our team.
If players were really coached not to be happy with Brandon’s recent ruling….that is poison….and would be a tough pill for anyone to swallow.
I have no doubts that Josh will turn our team into a winner….but at what cost?
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Sorry, Mike
But Big Blue Shoe is an idiot. Spare us the link.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
by bradley on Aug 22, 2009 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
bradley--I hope so
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
His legal record really doesn’t paint the picture of a “good kid” and it goes back longer than his time in the NFL so I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that count.
Also, on the PR incident, we don’t know the context in which those instructions were given. Some on this site have suggested that it may have been intended to keep the players discussing football matters and nothing else or that the Broncos didn’t want the media implying that the team was ganging up on alleged domestic violence victims (whether she was the victim or not, that is how the media would portray her). IF this is the case, I have no problem with them trying to prevent further drama. Marshall was asked if he thought that this may have been the intention of the PR staffer and his hesitation in answering the question suggests to me that he is aware of that possibility but would rather jump on the drama bandwagon to get his way (whether that is a new contract or a trade).
Maybe not...........but I still think he is.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Late to the party here.
So you think this is a ploy to make our opponents forget about Marshall so he can be used as a secret weapon?
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
I think it COULD be a ploy to make our QB's forget about Marshall,
so they don’t omit the rest of our many receivers in their development. Then present them with their secret weapon when it counts.
I’m hopeful, but really unsure of any of the possibilities we have brought up. If this is all a smokescreen then it has been successful.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
good ole brandon
I would like to take a moment and thank all denver fans for giving brandon marshall to the Baltimore Ravens I Hope you will like Troy Smith and Demetrius Willams in return. Good luck this year.
myeeehhh a wise guy eh?
nyuck nyuck……. poke……..fwap fwap fwap…..bonk….nyuck nyuck nyuck……
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein
Sorry...off topic...but does anybody know...
Why Hanie is starting for Chicago tonight? What did I miss?
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 6:11 PM MDT reply actions
Never mind.
Apparently a clerical error by whoever does the NFL.COM game cast. Cutler started.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 22, 2009 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Cutler looked pretty good tonight
which adds fuel in Denver if Orton does not throw for 450 yards in the first half.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 22, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions
450 yards?
That will only tell us that he can throw against a sub-par defense.
He’ll still suck.
/DP forum regular.
Things just keep getting interesting.
Well when I heard this I was quite shocked despite everything that has happend with him being on the scout team. Why put him on the scout team and not have in Seattle is total BS. I really hope this is a ploy and we hear a “gotcha” sometime soon. The week following tonight’s game will tell everything.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
chiefs fan here
why doesnt the broncos just pay the man?
despite his troubling past, hes clearly an elite wr
most of his frustrations seems to be about his contract
and i dont follow the ploy idea… i dont think the management
would intentionally anger marshall and risk him leaving? just lock him up is what i say
His umpteen arrests
have something to do with it. Plus his snotty attitude. Give us Bowe, and a first, and a fifth, and you can have him.
He felt like the man who drew the first circle. Perfect, and complete.
Ha
bowes a better wr than marshall
lol you want picks?
chiefs are in a bad shape right now they need all the picks they can get…
So...
Could you please share (again) why you think we should consider BM so invaluble and that we should “just lock him up”…Are you saying that management should ignore all the off-field maturity and legal considerations…How about the seemingly annual threat of suspension…Not a second thought as to his own efforts (lack thereof) to be a Team player…Ignore relieving himself of the responsibility of coming in for OTA’s to start to learn the play book (still has not!), get to know the new system and work on his relationship and timing with his new QB’s…And on, and on, and on, we should just ignore the effect on, and the efforts of, the rest of the Team…Not!
by BroncoSense72 on Aug 23, 2009 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Marvin Harrison is still available...
Just sayin…
Sure he’s a bit older than #15, but he’s a class act. Exactly the type of player McD seems to covet.
A proud prognostication of 10-6 in 2009!!!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I've heard Marvin Harrison is one of the dirtiest players to play the game.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Thanks for the clarification!
I just read an article this morning that confirms that concern….I guess he was always able to keep his attitude low key enough to stay off the radar LOL
A proud prognostication of 10-6 in 2009!!!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
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