REV'D UP! - A Twisted View of Reality
by RevrendBronco on Aug 24, 2009 3:44 PM MDT
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I just got done watching the Denver vs. Seattle game for the 2nd time and I was struck by one thing.
The MSM was ranting and raving about Cutler and how good he looked against the Giantsthis past week (to his credit, he played very well). I watched as the MSM compared Orton's QB rating of 85.7 to Cutlers 117.8... obviously seeking to again make McDaniels look like an idiot for what transpired this off-season (Note to MSM: So you can actually report some facts... FOR THE ONE HUNDREDTH TIME!!! it was Cutler who refused to return the Owners calls and the owner who pulled the plug on Cutler... not McDaniels). The MSM is having a Fieldday with the Cutler vs. Orton debate.
Even some yahoo, in the post game presser, had the audacity to ask Kyle about how Cutler performed in Chicago.... (if I had been in the room I would have boo'd) It was the dumbest question I have ever heard asked in a post game presser.
On Sunday, the headlines were filled with how awesome Cutler had been... and the news about Orton was that he threw a left handed INT in the endzone... with no mention of it being 4th and goal... or than his right arm was occupied by a Seattle Player. Sometimes I wonder if people even watch the game before spouting off their expert analysis.
So, if the MSM is going to do this whole Cutler vs. Orton thing maybe we should look just a bit deeper before we throw Kyle under the bus.
Here is Cutler's Stat Line vs. Kyle Orton's from Saturday Night.
Cutler - 8 for 13, 121 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT QB rating - 117.8
Orton - 18 for 26, 182 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT QB rating - 85.7
Looks like Cutler clearly beat Orton for the night.
But look a little closer and Kyle had more completions, more yards anda better completion percentage. They both had 1 touchdown. Jay won the INT's and the Yards per attempt.
So was Jay Cutler really that much more impressive that Orton? Not really.
Consider this. In the Bronco's fourth possession, the drive that ultimately ended in an INT (An amazingly impressive 87 yard drive by the way), the broncos had the ball first and goal on Seattle's 4 yard line. After Jordan took it to the 1, the next play was a pass, and Kyle fired a perfect ball to Gaffney who was WIDE OPEN. (don't say that it was too high... because that is exactly where you place a throw to the back of the endzone) Gaffney dropped the pass, which easily should have been a Touchdown...
Let's say Gaffney catches that ball. Here is KO's stat line vs. Cutler
Cutler - 8 for 13, 121 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT QB rating - 117.8
Orton - 19 for 24, 183 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT QB rating - 127.6
One play changed the perception of how well our QB played... and he threw a perfect pass. The drop by Gaffeny really made it look as if Orton had a mediocre game... but not really so.
If Gaffney catches that ball, there wouldn't be a failed 3rd down attempt, or a left handed INT on Fourth Down. Orton would have beaten Cutler in every statistic other than Yards per attempt... and in this offensive system, Kyle is rarely going to win that battle.
Don't let the numbers or the MSM or the pseudo-fan's who don't know a thing about football or our team fool you. ORTON had a better game than Cutler hands down.
Here is one more thing for you. Had Clady not been called for that Bogus clipping call on that Hillis screen to the right... that went for a first down. that would have been 1 more completion and 15+ yards. The team would have again been in the RedZone and who knows... Kyle could have had a 3rd TD's. (not saying it would have happened... just saying it could have.)
Hey... this whole debate is flavored with so much emotion that a good chunk on us are having a hard time seeing things from an objective view point. I think we are so worried that our worst nightmare is going to come true... that we are having a hard time embracing the fact that our QB played an outstanding game this week and it should give us some real hope for the season. The truth is, the Offense can move the ball very well... even without the Rocket Arm of Cutler... the offensive Genius of Shanny... the talent of Marshall... and even with the noodle arm of Kyle Orton. The truth is, Kyle is a very good QB... he is a good leader... a winner... smart... and is doing an amazing job leading our offense so far this preseason. And if you can't see that... well... I think you might have a twisted view of reality.
NOTE: I know the danger of Analysis based on Hypotetical senarios. We could obviously go to 10 different plays every game and say "If that would have happened, then this would have happened." However, this one play seemed to deminish Orton's play to the point that it really did give a twisted sense of his performance... and thus the point of this post.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Can you post the stats for Yards Per Attempt?
I am also curious to what the longest throw Orton made was.
Saturday night can’t get here fast enough, I want Cutler to suffer!
Orton's longest
Everyone seems to forget that pass he threw over everyone’s head about 40 or 50 yards downfield ecause the reciever was covered on the play. But it looked like he had plenty of arm on that throw and all of his passes were much crisper and harder thrown.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
No no no... that must have been a halucination...
Orton’s doens’t have the arm strength to make that throw… Haven’t you been informed of that fact by the msm?
Come on Alan! You are here by sentenced to several hours of Jamie Dukes and John Clayton reports!
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Aug 24, 2009 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions
I could never be ...
In the same room with Clayton or Dukes. The prison time alone would just hurt my family too much. Not to mention the expense and bother of the trial and all that goes with it……and the attorneys…. my god the attorneys…its just too terrible to contemplate.
I will just have to content myself with truning them off…or better yet, never turning them on.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
Besides that is just cruel and unusual punishment
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 24, 2009 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks Rev
Extrapolating the ratings based on the dropped pass puts a different light on things doesn’t it. Rec’d
"as in football so in life"
Plus... McD is putting the whole Offense on Kyle's Shoulders...
hardly any attempts in the running game… something that makes a D play pass first… and that is alot more difficult.
The bears are running a much more balanced attack at the moment… something that really helps a QB.
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
Did anyone catch Orton's comment...
After the game where he confirmed what we all probably already knew….. that this is the best collection of talent he has ever been around… ever.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
No surprise there
But it’s another indication of the attitude Coach has been throwing out in pressers the past 2 months.
Has anyone heard Cassel say things as positive and encouraging as that (in KC or NE)?
Has anyone really heard Cassel say anything at all?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
Glad To Hear It
Whether it is true or not DOES NOT MATTER. He’s being a team player. That counts for a tremendous amount. IMO, it is probably true.
I only disagree with you on one thing
I’m afraid that clipping call wasn’t bogus. I’m a huge Clady fan, but he did it. I saw it. He went down and rolled up on the guys legs. You can’t do that.
It is said that ducks crash and die on the blue turf.
I saw that play too, but when you make contact in front first, and then maitain that contact...
that’s not a clip. I could be wrong, but it sure looked like Clady made contact first, and as the guy turned to pursue, then Clady made contact with him from behind. Either way… a penalty from Clady is a rarity. I can kind of see the Rev’s point.
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Aug 24, 2009 5:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with Welcome2Boise on this one.
I too am a huge Cady fan but I do not feel he has been at his best this TC and pre-season.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
Dangerous as well
That kind of play can break legs and cost careers. Who was the former Bronco DL who got rolled up on when he played for the Chargers?
Rare misstep from Clady. But football is a tough game.
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith's rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 24, 2009 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Tired of Cutler
One pass, one incomplete that should have been a touchdown and one pass a left hand interception makes a 32 point swing in quarterback rating, wow! Statistics really do lie.
I guess we’ll have to live with this Cutler for Orton comparison the rest of the year if not several. Maybe I missed something completely but it sounded like the trade was more about multiple high picks and a quarterback sweetener rather some kind of straight across swap. In my mind Cutler is the past, Orton is the present, and the multiple picks we got or will get for Cutler won’t show their value until the future.
well
come Sunday night, if Orton puts up a better game than Cutler and the Broncos can manage to win… The MSM should hopefully lay low for awhile
If Cutler doesn't dominate Orton
The MSM should ream the Bears for giving up so many high picks for a player that is barely better than the one they traded away.
File this under: Never happen
If Orton wins this battle....
the MSM will spin it as a “meaningless pre-season game” and lets compare them come January……
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein
McD is really pushing the offense and Orton
He is putting them in uncomfortable situations and passing the majority of the time. McD is really working on the timing and execution of the passing offense, which is harder to implement.
I think he knows we can run the ball effectively. But rather than show teams the balance that Denver will have this season, we are working to improve the more difficult parts of our offense.
That my friends is what we call “strategery” – :)
Twisted indeed
I spent the entire offseason reading about how you can’t compare Cutler/Ortons td’s and yards because Orton played with horrible surrounding talent and Cutler had nothing but studs, and the only stat that matters is W and L’s. Now we are saying that Cutler putting up a 117qb rating, producing points on the 3 series he played in while his team wins is worse than the game Orton put up? Come, on now that is the ultimate homer spin.
If you are going to credit Orton for that pass to Gaffney that should have been a td you also got to mention the possible interception on the 1st drive in the red zone. You also can’t ignore the 2nd half when Orton struggled against the Seattle 2nd team.
“The truth is, the Offense can move the ball very well… even without the Rocket Arm of Cutler… the offensive Genius of Shanny… the talent of Marshall… and even with the noodle arm of Kyle Orton.” The truth is Shanny was ridiculed for an offense that ran up and down the field but struggled in the red zone. Right now the offense is still struggling with the red zone. I have a feeling there will be plenty of times to brag about Orton this season but no need to rationalize everything he is doing. Cutler played well, did not turn the ball over, led his team to scores every time he had the ball and his team won. Orton played well, turned the ball over once, did not lead his team to a score every drive and his team lost. I’ll take Cutler in this one even though I still believe Orton will be solid this year.
good point.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 24, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions
True
I will say the difference so far is that our offense is struggling in the red zone without even attempting to run the ball in the preseason. The previous reputation was built in the regular season when anything was game.
I am willing to bet that if we let ourselves run when we are 1 yard out we can make it work. We will see.
Tis better not to throw it to the deep receiver but the open receiver.
My post wasn't really about Cutler at all...
it was more about Orton, and how well he played. Those who are so focused on his lefty desparation attempt on forth down forget that just two plays before, he basically threw a touchdown.
The point is that I believe that Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler are being examined by two different sets of standards, and it doesn’t really seem fair. If you want to credit Jay Cutler for Forte’s 40 yard touchdown run… then that is fine, as long as you also realize that McD is virtually calling all passes and putting the entire offense on KO’s shoulders.
My point is only to compare KO’s play with Cutler because everyone is ranting and raving about how well Cutler played… and in reality, KO, In my opinion really deserves the same credit for his play as well.
by RevrendBronco on Aug 25, 2009 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions
If you're going to play the hypothetical game...
Be prepared for the it come the other way as well. You’re conveniently leaving out the fact Orton had nearly twice as many attempts as Cutler, which means Cutler also won the TD% comparison, had a better 3rd down conversion rate and scored on all three possessions he was in the game for. But just to play your game on a level playing field and bring Cutler’s attempts up to 24 using the same completion rate (61.5%), which is lower than his career average, by the way. That would equate to a stat line of: 15/24, 223 yards and 2 TDs. I’ll even throw in an interception along the way just to make the Cutler haters happy. All this still equals to a rating of 103.3 and a YPA of 9.29. And he accomplishes this using “inferior” offensive weapons and and iffy offensive line.
I am a Bronco fan, and not a Cutler disciple as I have been accused of being. However the rhetoric being thrown around about Orton is annoying (and overblown): Cutler is the more dangerous weapon, not nearly as turnover prone as he is portrayed to be (his and Orton’s INT% from last season are nearly identical), and is still extremely effective with lesser surrounding talent and less innovative offense. Sound like a legendary Bronco QB to anyone?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
shenanigans
I was with you right up to the Elway reference. Cutler is NOT Elway, improv. But I know you know that. ; )
The rest of your points are quite reasonable and perfectly valid. For the record, I’m so weary of the Cutler/Orton pi$$ing contest. They are both perfectly good QBs and both should find success in their new systems. I hope they do. Bears vs. Broncos is just not that exciting to me any year, much less this year. I’m much more interested in what’s going to happen in our own division and our own conference.
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith's rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 24, 2009 9:25 PM MDT up reply actions
As I mentioned above...
I am really not trying to dog Cutler… He played well and I give him credit for that.
The point of my post is that Orton also played well, and we should be giving him the same credit as well.
The fact is, trying to compare two QB’s against two different opponents, in two completely different game senario’s, with two different coaching objectives… well, it is impossible to do. KO vs. Cutler comparisons for the purpose of deminishing either player is completely pointless.
It is time for Bronco fans to step up behind KO and give him the credit he deserves. If you are going to boo him in a practice, then you should also be “fan” enough to applaud his play last Saturday.
by RevrendBronco on Aug 25, 2009 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Sorry Kyle
No one in the spotlight gets to choose whether they’re compared to others in the same profession or not. Should have chosen a really obscure sport – soccer, badminton, handball… :-)
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
Sorry Improv...
but did you even read the quote? He says that he knows other people are going to do it, but he isn’t going to. It’s posts like this that make people accuse you of being a Cutler disciple.
by Fan in Exile on Aug 24, 2009 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions
It was a joke..
The dig was on Plummer, or did you even read the whole two-line post?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
I wouldn't be surprised if...
McDaniels is GLAD the way fate intervened and blew that whole situation apart. How much better off would we have been in a three way trade? I mean come on, that’s one more mouth to feed, one more person to compromise with.
I will proudly (and gladly) say that Denver came out on top here, and probably better than Josh could have hoped. Yes having Cassel, someone who is already familiar with the coach and system, would have had its immediate benefits; but I think in the long run we really won out with Orton (if he turns out to be highly coachable, which he has been so far). He’s got a great personality, takes responsibility for his faults, and knows where his weaknesses are and tries to work at them. Can the same be said of Cassel? Probably. Of Cutler? Most likely not.
I think McDaniels was the beneficiary of some good luck with Cutler’s attitude. I think he ended up getting more out of the Bears than we would have gotten out of a third-party situation. Can’t wait to see the next game!! Woot woot!
It's Orange Crush time. And no I am NOT talking about the soft-drink.
Which I beg the question: "Can liquid really be... soft?"
The past is settled, its only the future now. A new one, for Denver, and for BMarsh. Light'em up Beast!
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