Final Thoughts on the Broncos as I sit in DIA
by John Bena on Aug 3, 2009 6:04 PM MDT
in 2009 Denver Broncos Season Preview
Email
PrintHere I sit, awaiting to board my plane back home. It's odd, because every time I'm here, Denver feels a lot like home as well. Browns fans are passionate about their team, like Broncos fans. There are a lot of Ohioans out here as well. It makes it easy to want to come back and do this again next year, perhaps as a family vacation.
I was thinking about what I saw, and the reaction I received from it. Let me thank each and every one of you for your kind words, and a special thanks to everyone who gave their take on Training Camp as well. This is a community, and your input is greatly appreciated. I was able to get access because of you, and your voice is heard loud and clear in Denver, trust me.
Some of you may think I spun an extremely positive picture of the Broncos. Some others may think I am blind, or that I am drunk on the Broncos Kool-Aid. Let me assure you I am not. You do deserve an explanation, however, as to why I see things the way I do. In the few minutes I have, I hope to help you better understand.
First things first - the Broncos have issues; in some cases, big issues. There are question marks all over the front seven. There are also question marks at quarterback. Nothing I saw these past few days leads me to believe any of those questions are close to being answered.
There is a lot of work to do.
That said, I am a huge proponent of thinking beyond the problems and looking for solutions. Really, that's what Josh McDaniels' primary responsibility is. Solve the problems. I came to Denver not to watch this player or that player, but to watch the coach, and by extension, his staff, to see how they were going to solve the problems.
I tell people who work for me all the time, "Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions". People who focus on what's wrong are negative. People who focus on how to make it right are positive. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, nor am I looking for you to.
We are ALL passionate Broncos fans. We ALL want what's best for the team.
To that end, I came to Dove Valley in hopes of lending credence to those who support Josh McDaniels, and to try an bolster the confidence of those who are still unsure. I am hoping I have done that.
It doesn't mean that all the problems are solved or questions answered. What it does mean is that I have seen, with my own eyes, a group of coaches, players, and staff looking for solutions and trying something different than has been the norm in Denver, for better or worse.
As we move towards the regular season, I ask all Broncos fans to once again come together. Come together in support of the team we are all so passionate about and come together to support the changes Josh McDaniels is trying to incorporate. It is amazing the power that positive energy possesses. Maybe if we all give a little, something magical can happen in Denver.
I can verify one thing - it won't be for lack of trying, or lack of looking for solutions.
83 comments
|
12 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Use the Positive Energy
to bring back the “Mile High Mystique.”
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Coach of the Year
This ‘award’ is typically given to the coach of the team with the best record, the one steadying an uncontrolled ship, or the coach of the team that surprises most of the media.
Based on the media’s incessant insistence that Denver is looking at a 4-win season, how many wins do you think would be surprising-enough for McD to be considered for this award?
That's probably about right.
Not that it will happen this year, but 11 wins is probably what would be needed for coach of the year. That said, I really don’t care about coach of the year. All I care about is him, and his staff, doing a great job at building a team that can get to 11+ wins in the next year or two. If he builds that foundation and we see steady across the board improvement, then he’ll be Coach Of The Year in my book, even if not the true league recipient.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Aug 4, 2009 12:14 AM MDT up reply actions
10 wins should get him considered
Not saying he would win the award with 10 wins, but with how awful the MSM is saying this team will be, 10 wins and his name will be tossed in the discussion.
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
I agree
It could be 10. Hell, even 9 wins, if they’re against impressive enough opponents, could get him mentioned. We do have a fairly tough schedule, so 9 wins means we’re beating some decent teams. And, as you said, since so many of the MSM think we’ll be lucky to win 4 or 5 games, they’ll be in complete and utter amazement to see us have an above .500 record of any kind.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
I am becoming more and more of an optimist....9 wins this year!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
Thanks John.
We’ll hold down the fort here on the home turf. I’ll be cheering so loud in my living room that they’ll hear me from Invesco. Let’s bring back the Thunder.
I don’t know about anyone else, but everytime I go to a Bronco Game, i’ve lost my voice and can hardly be heard by the end of the day.
“Whopper! WHOPPER-NO-ONIONS!! Whoa whoa whoa buddy… Let’s turn down the Main abit, huh ‘Skid Row’? Are you ready to ROCK BK-BROILER?! I’m ^%$#ing bleeding from the ears here!” – D.C.
It's Orange Crush time. And no I am NOT talking about the soft-drink.
Which I beg the question: "Can liquid really be... soft?"
3 TE Set = 3 losses or less.
Do it MickeyD... 13-3!!
Thanks John for all your work...I think I would've gone insane without knowing what's
going on out there.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
Thanks Guru !
Great to have your perspective. It’s becoming clearer to me all the time that it was, indeed, time for a coaching change in Denver, and that the longer one regime remains intact (though Shanny’s assistants were anything but constant) the more blindspots and taken-for-grantedisms there are bound to be. This team needed a change… and I’m optimistic that McD will bring it, at least in time. The tweets I saw from Shefter’s site today about the Shanahan Autodidactical Tactical Tour confirm that Shanny himself seems to realize that his act needs freshening up:
Mike Shanahan’s busy. Pittsburgh today, New England tomorrow, then on to Texans and Cardinals camps, before studying Florida w/ Urban Meyer.
People asking why Shanahan doing this. Simple. He wants to learn from great coaches/systems and make himself even better when he returns.
More power to Shanahan, by the way. My respect for him increased when I heard this. But he never, ever would have done this when he was with the Broncos (of course the other coaches probably wouldn’t have rolled out the welcome mat for him either….). McDaniels is a breath of fresh air, and I hope that Bowlen’s instinct carries the day—if not this year, then soon enough for all but the most impatient among us….
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
I agree with you...
Every situation becomes stale at some point. Shanahan’s position became too comfortable. Power corrupts. He surrounded himself with yes-men who lacked innovative minds. How many HCs have come out of the Shanahan tree vs. Parcell’s, Belichek’s, or Walsh’s?
It’s a credit to him that he’s taking his summer tour to learn and reinvigorate…. although dragging Slowik along diminishes that.
by BuckarooBanzai on Aug 3, 2009 11:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Is Slowik coming??!
I hadn’t heard that….
That’s not good….
MS: Jake, no matter what happens, never throw the ball from the end zone with your left hand.
JP: But...
by Plummer's But on Aug 3, 2009 11:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Power to the Broncos!
I can verify one thing, it won’t be for lack of trying, or lack of looking for solutions.
I believe these coaches share something that is very special; they want to win very passionately and I like that enthusiasm a whole lot. Can’t wait for the whistle to blow, let’s get it on!
I mentioned this on another thread, but
…what is interesting to me is the breadth of the reviews thus far.
Listening to The FAN today — not something I normally do — and all they’re talking about is how awful Marcus Thomas and Tim Crowder, how they should be cut immediately, etc.
Couple that with their distaste for Orton, and you’d think that a disaster is unfolding.
That’s at odds with what I’m reading here. And that, more than anything, has me concerned: which filter is more accurate?
It's hars
For Sandy and Mike to give a fair assessment when they watch about 10 minutes of practice. I watched over 15 hours the past 4 days….
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
by John Bena on Aug 3, 2009 7:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Is that how much they watch?
They make it sound like they’re there from beginning to end.
One thing that galled me about the way they were talking about Thomas is that the guy put on new weight to be able to compete at NT. It takes time to get used to full-bore summer workouts with new weight. Cut the guy a little slack: he has a lot of talent, and he could be a huge factor in how well our defense runs this season.
Do radio hosts really have that much time to spend outside of their office?
I trust the judgment of Guru and the many other MHR members on the ground watching the players and coaches closely.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
To be honest...
I saw Sandy there for about a hour on Friday – during the morning practice(he is on-air during the afternoon). I didn’t see him at all on Saturday or Sunday – with the media at least where I was.
He was back on Monday for about an hour. The tent is no where near the field and does not have site of it.
Like another poster said, there job is to be controversial and generate conversation. If it bleeds it reads. Negativity will always generate a response, and sometimes just playing the devil’s advocate is the way to go…
I just don’t see how he watched enough of the workouts, while I was there at least, to make an educated opinion on what happened those days on the field.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
I hosted a news show for 89.5 KTSC in Colorado.
I spent much more time doing research than being on air. Even so, most of that information was from others, not my own first-hand work. That’s not to say I did a bad job; it’s just that there is a disconnect between the personality who reports and the actual folks who gather the info.
Guru is both a news gatherer and a reporter (and editor, etc). I can’t speak for the radio hosts that we’re dicussing in this thread though.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 4, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Ironically, Alfred Williams and Scott Hastings were commenting on how good Tim Crowder has looked. hmmm?
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
wait Alfred Williams
that name sounds familiar didn’t he play a bit of football some where:-)
I might trust his opinion then ;-)
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
I have a few buddies that went to several of the practices.
One thought Otron looked good and the other thought he was terrible. Both thought Crowder and the secondary were impressive.
Both thought the D-line looked bad.
One said the RBs looked good and the other said the WRs looked good.
The reviews on DJ Williams and Andra Davis were good. The reviews on some of the interior O-linemen were not so good.
It’s all in the eye of the beholder and we all tend to see what we want to see (for better or worse).
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I can definitely attest to how people can get two different views from the same practices. There is so much stuff going on at one time [typically 3-4 areas where there is activity], that you could be watching someone struggle in one drill while another person is watching a completely different drill and set of people. Later, while watching a different drill you could see the opposite player do some amazing things.
Simms looked really really good for the initial drills, while Orton looked so-so. When they started going against the D however, Simms looked bad and Orton looked pretty good.
I can easily see how if you couple this, with preconceived notions, you can definitely take away whatever your mind wants.
That is why I just wrote what I saw
because that was my first practice and I didn’t think I had enough experience to make accurate evaluations. I made my report so that you all could draw your own conclusions. I did try to be objective, but Todd is right, there’s a lot going on at one time.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Mike Evans must read MHR
JeffG, I disagree. I don’t always listen to Sandy and Mike, but I frequently do. And I heard Mike Evans the other day take a very MHR-sounding approach to the Broncos. He seemed downright optimistic about the team, or at least, much more so than much of the mainstream media. And when callers would espouse negativity, he would always say something to the effect of, “What a minute, think about this for a second.” He all but quoted some of the stats that have been tossed around here about Brandon Marshall, he of the 181 times thrown to in 15 games.
As you know, Mike’s job is more about being interesting and less about being right. And there’s no more interesting takes on the Denver Broncos right now than those offered right here. Let’s just hope the prevailing optimism at MHR is interesting AND right.
But who will guard the guards themselves?
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 3, 2009 8:49 PM MDT up reply actions
What are you disagreeing with?
Sorry, I’m not following.
Incidentally, different hosts on The FAN reported that McBean looked really good, and that they’d heard good things about Baker and Powell from Alfred Williams.
I’m not used to sports talk radio, so I guess I’m just a bit taken aback by the spectrum of opinion coming from people on the same station who are presumably watching the same practices.
Speaking of which, one of the guys who was around all day said that Orton looked very good throwing the ball today. So there’s that.
maybe it was the way I read your post
The way I read your post had me thinking that you believed that The Fan’s radio personalities have been universally negative. It was when you said, “[listening to them talk] you’d think that a disaster is unfolding.”
I disagreed with that assertion. I believe certain personalities on local radio have fairly appraised the Broncos’ prospects. Like Woody and Mike Evans. While some have been very negative like Irv Brown and Joe Williams, but I think that has more to do with the fact that they’ve been frozen out of access. And Alfred Williams, for as much as I like him, is a Shanahan loyalist, so he’s been very vocal in his criticism of this offseason’s changes.
But it’s not all negative.
But who will guard the guards themselves?
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 3, 2009 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Ah.
Well, I actually only meant the two guys I listened to who were going on about Marcus Thomas and Tim Crowder deserving to be cut.
As I say, I don’t listen very often, so I don’t know how these guys are objectivity-wise from day to day. Today, though, they seemed fairly negative, and they did so in a way that led me to believe they had been watching practices closely.
Whether they have or not goes to the thrust of answering my initial comment.
blasted Moss, Crowder and Thomas today
Mike and Sandy today were saying the draft class that included Moss, Crowder and Thomas has been a complete bust, citing the lack of success from those three specifically.
Although Moss will likely be cut, I think Crowder and Thomas will make the team and will likely make strong contributions this season.
So this was one example where their negativity seemed uninformed and unnecessarily pessimistic.
But who will guard the guards themselves?
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 4, 2009 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions
The FAN...
That’s where Joe Illiams and Sandy Clough both used to say that Elway didn’t have the numbers to make it to the HOF.
They say the things that will bring in listeners and create controversy. I have seldom heard well reasoned and objective analysis from them.
It all starts from the top.
Change is needed and Josh and his staff are really working hard to change the philosophy and attitude of the team. This just make me more excited for the season even though we probably won’t be that successfull.
Good job John.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
John great reporting as usual !
Question i have been away lately what has happened to MHR radio ?
by broncosfaninphilly on Aug 3, 2009 8:27 PM MDT reply actions
John, I really appreciate (and am envious)
of all your work at the Broncos Camp!
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
Hope you crack open a nice cool one when you get back to Cleveland
You’ve earned a dozen of them at least! And, as a daddy of a daughter, I know exactly where you’re coming from on that front.
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
Emerald Necklace
Great time in Cleveland to enjoy the zoo. The girls are probably too young for the Flats.
Oh man the flats!
Last time I was there, i drank so much I half denuded myself onstage at the Howl At The Moon Saloon, followed by the best damn scrambled egg-french fry-cole slaw sandwich I ever had! Best time ever!
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 3, 2009 10:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Panini's!!
The only reason my wife agreed to move from Boston to Cleveland was Panini’s!!!
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
yeah...now you just gotta convince her to move to Denver.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
YES!!!
I’m heading right back there next time we visit my Cleveland in-laws! Freakin’ awesome grub right on the river!
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 4, 2009 8:20 AM MDT up reply actions
good job
Thanks for your effort. Your reports, along with those submitted by other reporters, have been excellent.
But who will guard the guards themselves?
by Agent Jerry Fletcher on Aug 3, 2009 8:41 PM MDT reply actions
Another great
article John. I have really enjoyed your reports and opinions on training camp. I always try to be positive about the Broncos but I also try to be realistic. I am still predicting a 6-10 season but I hope I am wrong. Between all the new players, new coaching staff, new system, tough schedule, and lack of talent on the defensive front 7 I just can’t more than 6 wins. But I will be watching every pre-season and regular season game either live or on dvd like I do every year and I can’t wait for the 1st pre-season game a week from Friday night. This season will be important even if we have a losing record because we should find out if McDaniels is head coaching material, if Orton is our quarterback for the next 4 or 5 years, etc. Even if we have a losing record we can find answers to these and several other questions!!
I was sick and stuck at home all weekend
And I have to thank everyone that participated in keeping those of us that could not make any camps informed in a way that the local news channels and print media could not!
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Aug 4, 2009 1:04 AM MDT reply actions
The coverage has been absolutely great John
It hasn’t been all positive, it’s been balanced and objective and you are just a natural. Every Bronco fan in the country should be logging in to this site every day and the add revenues at this site should be out of site, spread the word fellow Bronco fans.
I have never in my life been better informed about a camp and radio, TV, and newspapers had better get their act together. Does anyone else remember how it used to be before this site?
Has anyone been to some of the other fan sites of other teams? I of course haven’t been to all of them but the ones I have seen are mediocre compared to this. Thanks again John and to all of the rest of you.
Meh, this unabashed optimism is really not compelling. Nor is it especially compelling to “come together” because that’s what someone thinks everyone should do.
To each is own...
Then what should we do? Again, solutions? To me, its not unabashed optimism. There is a big difference between this camp and the last few under Shanahan, which there should be, and I think McDaniels is doing things the right way for a team that was, honestly, lousy the past 3 years.
Whether you like McDaniels, or Orton, or Simms, or anything else this off-season doesn’t matter anymore. You either support the team, or you don’t. That doesn’t mean blind support, mind you, but like I have said in the past – You are in a relationship and you significant other cheats on you. You are angry, hurt, disillusioned. It takes time. After awhile, however, you have to decide if you can move on and forgive her/him or decide you can’t get over it an move on.
Many Broncos fans were feeling many of those feelings with everything that has gone on. Now that camp is here, the choice has to be made. Can you get over Shanahan? Can you get over Cutler?? Can you get over McDaniels? Only you can answer that.
I started this post off with -
First things first – the Broncos have issues; in some cases, big issues. There are question marks all over the front seven. There are also question marks at quarterback. Nothing I saw these past few days leads me to believe any of those questions are close to being answered.
There is a lot of work to do.
I made it clear that there are huge concerns in key areas. What I wanted to see, and did, was a coaching staff trying to teach the players they have instead of the revolving door of street free agents trying to find a miracle fix(Jimmy Kennedy, et al) I wanted to see a new way of doing things, and I wanted to see intensity in the competition. I saw all of those things. Will it translate to wins this year? I really don’t know. But to simply continue to be negative doesn’t fix anything.
Bring solutions, not problems….
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Great, another someone trying to define what it means to be a fan. I take the long view on this. I also don’t clamor to how someone else defines “support”. And I also try to make it a point not to frame the issue or tell other people how they should think or act. To me, “to each his own” means something.
This whole solutions thing is a way you’ve chosen to define it. Its a construct that exists in your own mind, not mine.
Then why do you come here.
Is it the colorful photos?
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
So....
You come to my site, used to give my opinion(and welcome the opinions of everyone else), tell me how “uncompelling” I am, give no indication of your opinions on the matter, then, when I explain where I am coming from, claim I am trying to tell you how to be a fan?!?
To each his own definitely means something to me. It means we can agree to disagree. I will never try and give your opinion to you. You can think how you want. I don’t go on any other website and criticize how they think or feel, I created my own.
I can completely understand if you don’t like what I am saying, but bring something more “compelling” to the table than put-downs and cliche’s
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Look, I like your website, generally. But the part in your piece that nudges people to acceptance, is simply something I dont agree with. You have two camps and neither is right or wrong. Thats just the way it is. And this whole divide is nothing new. Its something that existed for 2 or 3 years among Chicago northsiders during Dusty Bakers tenure as manager of the Cubs. You had two camps: those who said you accept the team no matter what (good or bad) and then you had the camp who said the best way to influence change is to not go to games or buy gear.
In Denver you have several people who are fans of the Broncos and have been since before McDaniels was the head coach and even before Bowlen was the owner. They are fans of the Denver Broncos and not the Denver Bowlens or the Denver McDaniels. Each fan has his own notion as to what that means. If Bowlen wants to go and hijack something people are fond of, thats his perogative as the owner…but in doing so, he is making the team more Denver Bowlens than Denver Broncos — to many.
Also, its not an either or question where Shanahan and McDaniels are concerned. Its possible for people to have been in favor of firing Shanahan (or more specifically Slowik) and also not approve of McDaniels. Its really tempting to oversimplify this whole issue by creating dichotemies. The problem is that this involves layers or texture and the dichotimization that you typically see ignores this.
I wasnt trying to offend you or be a jerk.
That's more like it...
But I think you’re participating in an argument that John wasn’t trying to make in this particular post. There have been numerous venues for arguing whether Shanahan should have been fired, whether McDaniels was the right subsequent hire, whether Bowlen has changed his approach to ownership, etc… and you may have let the heated nature of those arguments bubble into a discussion that wasn’t intended to go there.
John’s article (and I just re-read it to make sure) was about how the current regime – which we have whether we like it or not – is working to solve the problems the Broncos have had in recent years. Given that Shanahan isn’t the coach anymore, and McDaniels is, I prefer that approach to things at this point.
As far as optimism goes, here’s how I see it: things are going to turn out the way they’re going to turn out, and in the case of the Broncos, I have absolutely no influence on that final outcome. Since I get no points or tangible benefits at the end of the day for having been a pessimist, I’ll go ahead and be an optimist until then, because it feels better, and I’m all about instant gratification. ;-)
Thanks Shawn...
You said it much better than me in much fewer words. I just think there are two sides to everything – a optimistic view and a pessimistic view. At this point of the season, where we are now, we can look at what we don’t have as far as talent on the defensive line, and complain endlessly about it, or we can focus on what the coaching staff is doing with the guys we DO have.
I watched, from 5 feet away, the coaches working with the D-Line in one on one drills. These guys are being taught every day, from the ground up. They might not be the most talented group, but I doubt any group will be more prepared.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Agree 100%...
There are many layers, and like you said, people have to determine how they feel. Where I disagree is that there has to be a divide. Sure, we may disagree, but to what end? All I am saying is, once someone lets their hurt and anger shade their judgment it makes being a fan hard to do.
Broncos fans want the Broncos to succeed. Some, I get the feeling, are so strong in their disapproval of McDaniels, or Bowlen, or Orton that they begin to hope they fail in some way. That is where I will always differ. Once you wish for your team to fail you cease being a fan. My opinion, for sure, but how I run the site.
I respect your opinion, Alex, I really do. You don;t have to buy in to anything I reported from camp, I can accept that to. All I ask, from everyone here, is for their take. I try to give specific examples for why I feel the way I do. I wrote 6 practice breakdowns detailing why I like what McDaniels is doing on the field. If someone sees something different, excellent. I just think 5 days of breakdown to be classified as “unabashed optimism” with no real explanation why was out of line. That’s message board stuff. We want better here.
From day 1 I wanted MHR to be the positive place to talk about Denver Broncos. Where Broncos fans could come and talk about their team without fear of attack. Sure, we can disagree, but in the end we ALL want the Broncos to succeed. If I am wrong in that opinion, or if that is telling people how to be a fan than I’m sorry.
This site isn’t about the Bowlen, McDaniels, Cutler, Orton or any other name on the back of a jersey. It’s about the Broncos. Good and bad, highs and lows, Orange and Blue forever.
Hopefully you can see where I am coming from. You don’t have to love everything the Broncos are doing, but there is a difference between being negaitve and being critical. Here we try to be critical, not negative.
Thanks for joining Alex!!!
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
I read about a guy who has been a season ticket holder since 1985 and he has so much disdain for what has happened in this offseason that the guy isnt going to go to any games and he’s not going to let anyone use his tickets. He wants the seats to remain empty to voice his protest and he vowed to do this until McDaniels is no longer the coach. Again, he has been coughing up coin since 1985 for season tickets and will continue to do so. Would you honestly say he is not a fan?
Again, some people take the longer view. It seems some people want to win but not if it comes at the expense of this past offseason. And so, theyll hold out for a time further down the road before they grab on with both hands again. And, yes, these are fans too.
No. This person is clearly not a fan.
And I wouldn’t call this misguided clap trap (by said “guy”) a “long view” by any stretch.
A few folks come across as wantig the team to fail so that they can be proven right. So Joe Blow in your example doesn’t like the way Bowlen runs his team, and decides to withold his support. If you aren’t cheering for the team, you aren’t a fan. Too simplistic? Perhaps. Occam’s Razor and all that.
There is a difference between being critical (which fans are), and declaring non-support (as your “guy” example does). As John points out, negativity is NOT the same as criticism. The example you use is poor. If you think Bowlen pays attention to some hair brained publicity stunt , then we differ.
Folks can be fans and have valid criticisms. But withholding support makes it clear that the individual is more self centered than on board as a supporter. The jerk you use as an example has judged McDaniels before he’s even coached a game. Judged him for what, a QB that demanded a trade before McDaniels was even brought into the organization? And what next? Joe Schmoe gets the coach he wants, and if the coach makes a single player move that he doesn’t like, he’ll take his little ball home and not play?
What a terrible example to illustrate a point. Take your ball home and not play anymore, and call that fandom. I’m sorry; I don’t get it. I imagine most folks here won’t either.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 4, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
What is Fan?
Well Said HT and Rec’d
First I think would have told A L to do something else with the ball, but that is just me.
Illustration of a Fan: In 1977 I had two seats in the South Stands, Row 21, Seats 1&2 to be exact. Well I got transfered that year and back then these seats were not hard to sell. Well we kept them in the family because Mom wanted them.
She kept the seats and when the new stadium was built she held on to them for another three years. She was not physically able to walk during those last three years, so since she upgraded to the Club Level, so the Staduim Staff would meet her at the RTD Bus and transport her to her handicaped seat on the Club Level. Where was the seat? On the rail of the Club Level, 50 yardline.
We moved mom to Missouri last year to be close to my sister and her family. Football Season now has a new challenge for her. Half of the family there are Bronco Die Hards, the other half, well the Chefs. When Denver is playing, the family gathers and she leads the Bronco cheering section on those Sundays. Mom will be 89 on her next Birthday in a couple months.
Now that’s a Bronco Fan!
Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans
This goes back to my Cubs comparison when I mentioned that some fans recognized the greater good was to not go to games or buy merchandise so to influence change. Those fans recognized that the Tribsters were taking the fans too much for granted and wouldnt do anything unless you threatened their pocket book. The “blind acceptance” fans undermined this greater good. The Cubs fans who looked at a greater good beyond having a full Wrigley every day could and did call out those blindly accepting as non-fans…or moreso “faux fans”.
Self Mutilation
It doesn’t do you any good to cut off your nose just cause you don’t like your face. You shouldn’t blow up your house because the wallpaper is old and yellow. Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Need I go on?
Again, I agree....
If this fan protests as his way to let his voice be heard, I am all for it. My problem is when people feel that way and decide to try and push their disdain on others. Try to extinguish the hope and optimism of others.
Again, I’m not telling anyone how to think, or what a fan is. What I am saying is, on this site, I want the “Why’s”. Whether you think the Broncos are garbage right now or not, give me the “why” and what should be done to fix it. That’s all. If I’m too optimistic, tell why you are pessimistic. If it is because of McDaniele/Cutler/Bowlen, then in a way you do have a decision to make. If they only thing that would make you happy is for McD to be gone then, by extension, you are hoping McDaniels fails, meaning the Broncos fail. That is the disconnect I have. I will never hope the Broncos fail….Ever.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
….Ever.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
The same old arguments are pointless and monotonous
With all due respect, as much as I appreciate the strong feelings on both sides, and the grace and skill with which they’ve been articulated, I’m personally growing less and less interested in why people are feeling bad or rubbed the wrong way or disrespected or hurt or up or down on the regime etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam. It’s really bordering on whining, guys. Let’s man up.
At this point, my feelings are distilled into a single thought, a single methodology by which all pretense will be exposed and this summer’s legacy, good or bad, can be viewed in the clarity of the bright morning light…
. . . . . . . LET’S PLAY SOME FOOTBALL!!
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
Awesome tactic: accuse everyone who says something you disagree with of being a whiner and hope they acquiesce and go away. Good luck pulling that off.
I'm not asking you to go away
I’m asking you to say something interesting.
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 5, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorry, that was a little harsh. My apologies for coming off that way. I’m just frustrated.
To clarify my comments: I’m not trying to single anyone out here and I’m not isolating on those who have a problem with the team management. I’m feeling this strongly about both camps, including those who are so sensitve about any minor criticism of McDaniels that they assume the commenter is trolling for the Raiders, which is patently absurd.
Everybody is so touchy and we have yet to play a game. Both sides have made compelling arguments — I’m just over listening to them. I’m just appealing for a little imaginative change in topic and tone.
Let’s talk history. Let’s talk players. Let’s talk awesome tailgaiting recipes. Don’t care what — I’m just over the hostility engendered by this monotonous argument.
"Talk about the Broncos and I'm gonna 'put my dukes up'. I'm gonna hit you with these rings." -- Rod Smith giving the Kennison rebuttal to Jamie Dukes
by broncosmontana on Aug 5, 2009 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Before it gets to a point where everyone attributes every non-accepting position to me, I’m going to go ahead and say my biggest issue is with Bowlen.
OK
It’s never a problem having an opinion. The only DEMAND of MHR is that you explain WHY. It’s just not enough to vent and rant. Let us know WHY. Then we can either agree or not, offer different perspectives, etc. I’ll add that, at least for me, I want to see demonstrable FACTS to illustrate and support your position(s). It’s not that emotion based opinions are bad. It’s that more often than not they are not very helpful. Kinda like an old girlfriend I had who felt that the best way to persuade me to her opinion was to SCREAM BLOODY MURDER at me. Anyone been there, done that? (Dumped her!)
So. What has Bowlen done that is so very bad?
He’s gone cheap on us. If you go back and look at the transcript from the press conference when he fired Shanahan, you’ll see its full of lies. I have a problem believing a lot of what the organization is saying in terms of what happened with Jay. I don’t for one second believe it hinges on Cutler being traded for Cassel. I think Pat was massively unprepared when he went into this. I also think bringing in a Patriot is a form of betrayal. Denver has a style of play on offense that its known for and its one that is still quite viable, provided you have the personnel and dont approach the running game with arrogance the way Shanahan did. Plus when I watch New England their approach to the running game seemed mickey mouse.
Its not like I was against firing Shanahan. When he said Slowik was coming back all bets were off. Plus on top of that there were things that Shanahan got sloppy with and a lot of it speaks to arrogance, in particular his willingness to believe that he could make the running game work on his acumen alone.
We needed someone to run fix the defense and run a more balance version of WCO-ZBS. Whenever I watch NE, it seems like they use the WR screen to set up 60% of the running plays.
Its not that there arent things that I like but Im not going to grab on with both hands because people are enraptured by the moment after having been to training camp or whatever. Josh has a lot to prove, especially after all that has happened. He needs to win and win this year to justify all the turmoil. But Pat wont want to admit he screwed up so he’ll probably stick with McDaniels even if the stadium is half -empty.
And ultimately, whatever you find wrong with McDaniels, it all goes back to Bowlen. Bowlen was wowed by him. He chose an offensive guy from the Patriots (of all teams) and entrenched himself with McDaniels by suppoting him. McDaniels is like the scorpion in that scorpion-turtle fable. It ultimately goes back to Pat.
I also think they traded the 1st round pick because Pat didnt want to pay for it.
It's Been A While
Could you give me the press conference transcript link and refer me to Bowlen’s specific lies?
http://broncotalk.net/2008/12/pat-bowlen-press-conference-transcript/
You can go through it on your own. I especially like how he insisted that the Goodmans werent going anywhere. Then this is perhaps the best of all:
"I talked to (QB) Jay Cutler, and Jay understood the conversation. I talked to him this morning. I didn’t get any negative feedback. I think he understands enough about the business of football, the game of football, that there are going to be coaching changes and changes in organizations. I didn’t sense that Jay had any negative feelings about it, and I’m sure he is very interested in who is going to be the next head coach. Obviously, he is the man around here now, so I will be talking with Jay. "
And there was also Pat wanting the new coach to not have as much power.
I think there were a couple more that I cant think of at the moment.
So Where Are The Lies?
He DID talk with Cutler. And later Cutler would not return his phone calls. As for Goodman. Can’t he change his mind? Maybe Goodman did something foolish? There may have been heightened expectations, but those statements certainly do not rise to the level of lifetime contracts.
I don’t think McD has nearly as much power over the organization as Shanahan did.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanShots on Mile High Report
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Getting Social With MHR
Web Stuff
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Jerry Jones says Cowboys championship window is closing; Tony Romo disagrees
- Lawrence Taylor was told his Super Bowl ring was bought by Charlie Sheen
- Chad Ochocinco gets robbed, mourns loss of Starbucks gold card
- Robert Griffin III will be first NFL player with Roman numerals on his jersey
- Alex Smith joins the burgeoning ‘stats are for losers’ movement
