Chicago Bears 27 - Denver Broncos 17 - Postgame Quotes
by John Bena on Aug 31, 2009 7:11 AM MDT
in 2009 Denver Broncos Season Preview
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PrintDENVER BRONCOS HEAD COACH JOSH MCDANIELS
On committing penalties early in the game
"It is really difficult to play this team in long yardage situations. I don’t know if it was every drive, but it seemed like it was every drive. I think we had three or four holding calls in the first half. This team, it is a good, physical football team that is pretty disciplined. Committing ten or twelve penalties is not the way you want to play, and giving up some things in the return game set them up with a short field. We tried to pin them back right before the half and then they did a nice job of the one drive – 98 yards before the half and [they] really kind of got the momentum there. You can’t play like that and win against a good football team. We know that and we’ve got to do a hell of a lot better job."
On QB Kyle Orton’s status
"I’m not going to talk about that or the extent of it yet. We have to do some more tests and make sure we are taking care of the players. He couldn’t come back into the game at that point."
On the Broncos overall performance
"Sloppy, certainly. You talk about staying out of long yardage and not giving them extra chances with penalties and those kind of things. Then you go out there and commit 10 or 12 penalties in a game like this, and most of them with our first group out there. It wasn’t like we had a lot of sloppy play there late in the game. You can’t do it – it is hard to win in this league and it’s real hard when you start doing that to yourself – giving the other team 100 yards."
On the Broncos depth at wide receiver
"We’ve got decent receivers, I’ve said that before. We are not concerned about that – that will take care of itself. Hopefully those players will be back and ready to go. The guys that went in there tonight did a decent job and got open and caught the ball for the most part. The problem was we were in long yardage most of the night."
On his first home game at INVESCO Field at Mile High
"It was a great atmosphere. This is an incredible…certainly more than a six on a scale of one to 10. In terms of the crowd it was great; it was a great response there. It is great to play in front of your home fans. They did a great job there trying to help us out early in the game and created some noise. You can tell [the Bears] were having trouble hearing a little bit. There certainly is a level of excitement that you don’t necessarily see in most preseason games, but I think that was good for our team. It just kind of gets you even more ready for the regular season."
On pressuring Chicago Bears QB Jay Cutler
"We pressured him. We blitzed a little bit more in this game than we have in our first two. I wanted to do that and kind of test ourselves out in terms of our pressure packages. We did get some hits on him. I don’t think we sacked him. He played well tonight. I thought he really played well tonight. He got the ball out and made some key third down conversion passes there and he stood in there pretty good against the pressure. We got some hits on the quarterback which is good, and that tells us that we have some pressures that we can get home with. We didn’t really create any turnovers. That is the third game in a row that we played on the negative end of the turnover margin and that’s a big problem if we keep playing like that."
On not sustaining drives on offense
"You don’t sustain drives when it’s first and 20. Every drive seemed like it was first and 20 or second and 15. It is going to be hard to do that. There is no doubt about it. You can’t play football in the National Football League when you need 15 or 20 yards to go every time you need a first down. We’ve got to fix what’s wrong. We had some guys commit some penalties and some fouls in crucial situations and times that negated some plays for us. Certainly we are not going to be able to win playing like that. We have got to get better."
On QB Tom Brandstater
"He was ready to go in there and did a nice job. He made one poor decision on the interception but did a nice job and ran the team fairly effectively and scored twice when he was out there. We’ll play with who we can play with and obviously want the best group out there that we can get out there, but life goes on sometimes in this league and you play with who you have. Tom Brandstater has done a nice job of learning our offense. He knows what to do. If needed he will go in there and play."
On Cutler’s return to Denver
"It’s over. That wasn’t the focus of tonight. The focus of tonight is on different things for our football team trying to get better. But that obviously added a lot of drama to the atmosphere. It was a great atmosphere to play in for our football team to try and get ready for the regular season. He did some nice things for them and I’m sure he will have a good year out there in Chicago."
On having limited preparation time before the Arizona Cardinals game
"We are going to use it as an opportunity to get better. We are not just going to go through the motions, certainly. We have a lot of work to do and we don’t have much time to do it. We are running out of time, as is every team in this league right now. You’ve got one game left and a handful of practices before you’re kicking it off for real. Every day, every hour that are there, we are going to try to get better and we are going to use the Arizona game the same way."
DENVER BRONCOS PLAYERS
QB KYLE ORTON
On leaving the game in the second quarter
"I don’t know exactly what happened. It certainly hurt enough, but I don’t know exactly what happened."
On if he is worried about being able to play in the season opener at Cincinnati
"No, I will be ready to go. I am going to work as hard as I can. I don’t know how long I will be out, but mentally I will be ready to go and I think physically I will be, too."
On committing penalties
"We talked about it all week, especially playing this defense. They thrive in long yardage situations. That is where their turnovers come from. That is where they can sit back and play their Tampa-2 and cause all of the short throws. That is what we did. We came out and put ourselves in the hole almost every drive, first-and-15s (and) second-and-20s. You can’t be effective against this team doing that."
More on penalties
"Whenever you have that many penalties—I think we had three points, at least when I was in there. We only had three points and really were pretty much ineffective the entire night. That is an obvious sign of playing sloppy football."
On the Broncos’ depth at wide receiver
"(WR) Jabar (Gaffney), he is a very integral part of our offense for sure. He is kind of a calming factor for the entire unit. We will hopefully get him back as soon as possible and get his presence on the field. He has had a nice preseason. We have got a lot of guys, obviously (WR) Eddie (Royal), and (WR) Brandon Lloyd played a nice game tonight, and we can use our tight ends and backs as well. We will be fine."
On playing against his former team
"It was good to see them. I talked to them before the game. It was good to see them. Hopefully, we would have had a better outcome than we did. They are a good team. I give them all of the credit tonight. They came out and beat us. (They) played better than us and played smarter than us and that is what happens."
On if he is concerned about the Broncos approaching the regular season
"I don’t want to say concerned. We have got to get some things—there are some things that we have got to get fixed reasonably quickly. You can’t say that you have got a whole bunch of time right now. There are things that we have to address that we have addressed. Now, it is time to stop saying we have got time. Time is running out. We have got to get some things fixed. I do think that we have a good football team. Speaking on the offensive side of the football, I think we have a chance to score a lot of points and do the right thing. We have got to correct some turnovers, and we have got to finish drives. We have got to play better than we have been."
On missing key players on offense
"Obviously, you want to play full strength, and I think when we do, we will have a good team. When guys go down, you can’t play full strength all season. That is the nature of this league. Guys go down, and when that happens, guys have got to step up and play well."
On QB Tom Brandstater
"I didn’t get to see a whole lot of it, but I know he made some nice throws and moved the team for a couple scoring drives. That was great. I am sure he is thrilled. We will have a lot of work to do this week."
RB PEYTON HILLIS
On the emotion of the game
"We knew it would be an emotional game. Everybody put a lot of effort into it, because of the rivalry with the Jay Cutler deal. We tried to go out there and do what we needed to do as a team. We did a couple good things, we did a few bad things, now we just need to respond. We have a lot of good players and we are being coached well. We just have to come back and play."
On the offensive penalties
"It is just a part of the game. It will happen. We are trying to get ready for our first regular season game and correct a lot of mistakes. We have to if we want to win."
On the two-back sets
"With [ RB Knowshon] Moreno we want to add size in order to run the ball. I think we did a lot better with that on our first and second drives of the third quarter. We just have to play more as a team. We had a lot of penalties on offense. We started a lot first-and-20, second-and—20, third-and-15, a lot of stuff like that. We can’t allow ourselves to do that if we want to win games."
RB DARIUS WALKER
On his up–and-down night
"It was an OK night. You never feel good if you don’t win. That is really the biggest thing, no matter what happens, you can’t feel good about a loss."
On the fumble
"With the QB-running back exchange, it’s tough because if there is one place you don’t want it to happen, it’s there. Going into score, that can change the whole mechanism of the game, especially for the offense."
On the offensive struggles
"It’s definitely concerning, you have to look at it as we want to a lot of things, we want to do a lot of positive things. Today we did some not-so-good things too, so we have to go back in and work so the mental errors and bad things can get corrected for us to be a good team."
WR BRANDON STOKLEY
On the offenses progression
"I don’t think we did. We have a lot of work to do. We’ll get back on it tomorrow and hopefully improve next week and get a good feeling for Week One in Cincinnati."
On pre-season wins
"It doesn’t matter if it is pre-season or not, you always want to win anytime you take the field. You want to have a good feeling coming into the locker room, because it doesn’t matter whether it is pre-season or regular-season. We are disappointed to lose.
On the goal for the last game of the pre-season
"Win. We were unable to tonight, so win."
OLB/DE ELVIS DUMERVIL
On the late hit in the first half
"I haven’t watched the film yet, but we’re just playing football out there. Whatever calls the refs made were the appropriate calls."
On defensive intensity
"We’re trying to play hard and that’s what we’re trying to emphasize all off season during training. We wanted to come out here and be smart and tough and be physical and that is what we’re trying to show across the nation this year."
On confrontation with QB Jay Cutler
"It’s just like any other quarterback. I don’t like quarterbacks. Me and Jay are cool off the field. But once I get on that field, I like to go after quarterbacks. We came in the same year but it’s football. On the field it’s a different atmosphere for me. We’re just playing football, it’s nothing personal. I’m just trying to get after him and I’m sure he’s just trying to make plays as well."
On Chicago’s 98-yard touchdown drive
"We did some good things on that drive, but we made some bad penalties, myself included. I think that we wish we could have taken that back. They executed and won that series."
TE TONY SCHEFFLER
General
"Obviously there was a lot of hype coming into the game, but they came out and got the best of us today. They were a little bit better than us with the first group, and we had a couple of injuries. We just have to keep working and move on"
On worries from 0-3 start in the preseason
"It is just the turnovers and the penalties. We have taken ourselves out of the last two games on turnovers and penalties alone. We just have to move forward. We are not putting ourselves in favorable positions with first and fifteen and second and twelve, and it is hard to move the ball when that is the case."
On QB Jay Cutler
"I think he wanted it really bad. He did a lot for this team and this city. But now he is in Chicago, and from what I hear he likes it. He came in here and played well. He is good in the pocket, and he has the arm to beat you deep on the scramble. He is a great player, and I think he will be a great player in this league for a long time."
DL KENNY PETERSON
On losing the game
"The game does not count, but it still matters. It gave us the opportunity to go out there and work on what we needed to work on. Chicago was a great test for us, they are a physical team, and Jay [Cutler] at quarterback gives them another dimension…We want to go out there and put on a good showing, and make sure we execute on both sides of the ball. We need to play complementary football like coach said, and we did not do that today, and they put us in some positions that we did not want to be in. We have one more week to iron out the wrinkles and get where we want to be, and then go from there."
On QB Jay Cutler
"Anytime you play with a guy, and you see him with another jersey on your going to heckle him a little bit and talk a little trash. But it is all in good fun and good competition."
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I love that
McDaniels got in that dig at Cutler over the “6 out of 10” thing. Will that endear him to Bronco fans still smarting over the loss of the greatest Pro Bowl QB ever?
Doubtful.
By I liked it.
I caught that too.
I was wondering at the time if it just made him seem somewhat petty. With all the talk regarding “just move on and get over the loss of Cutler” (my paraphrase), it seemed to be somewhat of a dig. But I liked it too.
Blues. Cardinals. Broncos. Univ. of Denver Hockey.
Also Nuggets, Outlaws (MLL) and Mammoth (NLL).
by HockeyHippie on Aug 31, 2009 7:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes and no
It was a dig, but it was his way of voicing appreciation to the fans at the same time. I don’ t think reasonable people will take it wrong. Of course, I’ve read some things written by some pretty unreasonable fans lately. :)
by BroncosBassist on Aug 31, 2009 7:47 AM MDT up reply actions
I loved the comment and I think it is well placed
It is a subtle reminder Jay isn’t with us and he didn’t want to be. We are your team and we are proud to be here.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 8:03 AM MDT up reply actions
I can’t believe people get crucified for bashing McDaniels on this website, and then he goes to the press with a cheap shot and gets praised. That comment said enough about his character to me— it was never about “making the team better” by trading Cutler, it was about being more powerful than Cutler.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions
People don't get criticized for bashing McDaniels...
And why would I be pissed at McDaniels for supporting Broncos fans?? Cutler is the one that bashed the fans of Denver. McDaniels was defending them…
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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All I’m saying is that if this board values character and takes someone to task for making a personal attack, this comment needs to make your blood boil, or you’re a hypocrite.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't understand your problem
Here’s what McDaniels said, in respose to a question about his first game at Mile High:
“It was a great atmosphere. This is an incredible…certainly more than a six on a scale of one to 10. In terms of the crowd it was great; it was a great response there. It is great to play in front of your home fans. They did a great job there trying to help us out early in the game and created some noise. You can tell [the Bears] were having trouble hearing a little bit. There certainly is a level of excitement that you don’t necessarily see in most preseason games, but I think that was good for our team. It just kind of gets you even more ready for the regular season.”
I don’t see how this is a personal attack on anyone. Maybe a mild retort to Cutler’s characterizing Broncos fans as a six while the Bears fans are a 9.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
by bradley on Aug 31, 2009 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Classless
He’s the one that wants to focus on other “players”. By essentially directly quoting Cutler, he is making direct reference to him. Just say that the atmosphere was incredible, and how you couldn’t have asked for more from the home crowd. Don’t draw attention to a sore subject.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Much to do
about nothing
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions
DITTO
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
by metalman5050 on Aug 31, 2009 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Where is the personal attack?
Cutler attacked Broncos fans, then back-peddled. McDaniels was praising the atmosphere created by the fans. I’m just not following…
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
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Call Me! (303)731-5605
Then take the goggles off. He calls out a comment by Cutler, but he doesn’t want to talk about Cutler in the media. You can’t have it both ways. Arrogant.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions
So he's wrong for defending Broncos fans...
Fine…..At least we know where you stand.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
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by John Bena on Aug 31, 2009 9:33 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
ARROGANT!
It’s ARROGANCE! I know, because Sandy Clough tells me so.
I don’t even read the newspaper. I just watch press conferences.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions
You have to be kidding me
You’re finding stuff that isn’t there at all. Can you analyze the Zapruder film for us next?
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
my blood isnt boiling. i MUST be a hypocrite.
ridiculous.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions
He represents Denver that way and you don’t care? We’re a laughing stock!
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions
I may be wrong but it seems like you do not like what he said
But I bet that is just the latest thing you haven’t liked about him.
I personally do not mind that statement at all.
I was glad he let everyone here know HE DOES NOT VIEW DENVER FANS AS A 6.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Say Denver is one of the best crowds you’ve ever heard. Don’t phrase it in the context of the arch nemesis that got you all this media attention.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Dude, I’ll take your game tickets. I want to see my team in person, and you don’t want to be near a ‘laughingstock.’ It’s a total win-win.
I’ll continue to watch them in the comfort of my own home in glorious HD. Cheap beer, no lines…
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Who's laughing?
All the star humpers?
Let them laugh in preseason. It’s who laughs last that counts.
actually,
i do care.
i dont mid the dig. it was subtlety. it showed intelligence. it was a direct insult, or vulgar bashing. it demonstrated a bit of McD’s sly hand. in a competative game, that is certainly an asset, not a liability.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
I bet he wrote the comment before he even went out and lost the game. That jab was rehearsed, it was the first thing he said. He obviously didn’t devote himself “entirely” to the game plan. Maybe that’s why we keep running illegal screens.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions
ha.
sarcasm noted…
but deflects from the point.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree that McD thought of the comment before the game
Probably took six seconds of thinking. Your conclusion that doing so detracted from his game planning is absurd.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
Again, sarcasm. But it points out the fact that he was thinking about Jay, despite repeatedly saying he did not. I’m just pointing it out as part of his personality.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions
i guess the thing is,
90% of the questions in pregame were about jay. untold #s after were about jay. hard not to think about him, at least enough to give a reasoned answer.
this is all speculation though right? tea leaves, as someone quipped elsewhere.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe McD was...
Making a point to the media how they have taken the issue between him and Jay and prostituted it to the point of absurdity . ie like last nights game
Cmon, its just a preseason game and they (Media) act as if it was the first round of the playoffs.
"Iron sharpens Iron."
My favorite teams are:
Broncos
and anyone playing against Da Bears!
keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
if he was spending all saturday night planning against Jay I don’t care. That was one of his 53 opponens last night.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Yopur not a Denver fan...you are a Cutler fan who is annoyed Cutler is not here...see that fence...get over it!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
OK...how is this a personal attack???
I think your love/like for Jay Cutler is over riding your grasp of reasonable.
There is nothing ANYONE could take from this except the HC’s coach of gratitude to the fans and him haveing THEIR back….I am honestly floored by your comment
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Aug 31, 2009 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I respectfully disagree
I’ve made my point above, but to reiterate:
1) Make the comment in the context of being glad for the fans, not in the derogatory context of Cutler’s comments.
2) To take a dig like that at Cutler is something everyone on this board that rails about character should be upset with.
3) I think it offers valuable insight into the fact that McD wants the upperhand on Cutler… that’s why he took a swipe that Cutler has no opportunity to counter.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Wow...
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Pretty much
Some people have an amazing ability to make something out of absolutely nothing.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
I am puzzled by all the penalties . . .
especially the holding calls against Clady and Weigman. That frustrated me to no end last night. Is that a coaching issue? (I thought Dennison is one of the best OLine coaches in the League)
Take away the stupid penalties (including the dumb one by Doom) and the Broncos played well. Its hard to win when you are missing 2 top receivers (Gafney and Marshall), a top RB (Moreno) and lost one of your top linemen (Kuper).
The 98 yard drive, though discouraging, was well called and well played. Hats off to Cutler. But IMHO, that is the ONLY thing I saw the Bears do. It was our specials that hurt us last night.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
When the offensive system you're playing
isn’t second nature yet you tend to make mistakes you wouldn’t ordinarily make. Seeing Clady mess up drives that point home. We know he’s a goof player, and his struggles last night put in perspective the struggles of Orton and the offense as a whole. The same thing is true of the defense, too, of course, so it’s encouraging that the defense has played as well as it has in the preseason.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Its part of the progression.
McD didn’t call all those bubble screens yesterday to be cute. He called them becuase they’re another type of play he will mix in and out of the offensive plan, and the Bears game was his chance to try as many different formations and types of screens as he could. We keep saying this, but he won’t call a regular game like that. There will be much more variety and adjustmants as the game goes on. Personally I’ve enjoyed the playcalling; each week has a different emphasis. I don’t even think the inelligable man downfield penalties were the result of sloppiness as much as the players testing the boundaries in types of plays they haven’t run in a game situation before. They’re learning about how to run those plays in a real game-time situation. Frustrating to see all those flags? Of course. I guess it just doesn’t bother me. I don’t think these will carry over into the regular season.
It seemed to me that he opened up the field
a little bit more with Brandstater than he did with Orton. More throws downfield etc. McKinley made that nice catch around the 15, and the catch by Lloyd at the goal line was incredible given that the DB tried to take his head off.
Maybe....
Edd Hochule was looking for a little redemption
"Iron sharpens Iron."
My favorite teams are:
Broncos
and anyone playing against Da Bears!
that redemptions gonna cause him the playoffs again this year.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Have not heard a thing . . .
If it is, who is his replacement? That is a huge loss for us.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
Olsen last night, but Hochstein in the long term I would think
Just the reason we went out and got the guy, a vet with experience in the system and at multiple positions. Olsen is definitely a long-term answer at guard but is a rookie and considering the lack of depth we can keep on the O-Line, I think Hochstein will be the guy for the fist while at least if Kuper’s injury is serious.
I think we’ll be keeping Polumbus (T), Hochstein (G), Ligchtensteiger © and Olsen (Rookie G) as our reserves on the line. Schlueter seems destined for the PS.
I completely agree . . . good call.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
weird...weren't people smashing us for taking another ex Patriot?
strange…..
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Olsen played very well in replacement of Kuper
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
I completely disagree...
Olsen got man-handled by the Chicago defensive line. He was absolutely terrible. They moved Tommie Harris over him and he was consistantly pushing him back 2 to 3 yards in the back field. No chance Olsen starts (if Kuper is hurt – I hope not), Hochstein will play. At least if Seth plays the way he did last night. Not good, not good at all.
Well
I just followed Olsen on a few plays and saw him pushing his man to where he was supposed to push him. Maybe he got beat on other plays.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
That's what I saw too 777
It felt like the Bears just let Harris take the rookie to destroy him. Wiegmann had a tough time trying to take care of his jobs and help out Olsen.
Granted he is a rookie
and he was getting his first looks against #1s in a live game situation. I’m certainly not saying he won’t get better and improve. But last night he did not play well, particularily in run blocking.
Kuper is a tough kid and hope he gets back on the field for Cinci.
Harris had his way with Olsena few times,
but overall olsen did well in one on one blocking. Where Olsen needs (a lot) of work, is understanding his hndoff and double team responsibilities. he handed guys off decently, but a few of them were his guys, not Weigmann’s. In a zoneblocking scheme you should NEVER see your center taking on two rushers, but Weigmann got it a few times. I will have to watch again, but my first impression was that Olsen needed to help Weigmann out a little bit more.
As an aside, I hope like heck that Kuper is okay… the look on his face scared me more than anything.
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 31, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
I have not heard anything
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 8:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Any Kool-Aid I drank after games one and two, got puked up after last night. Unlike the 1st two games when the better team was clearly Denver, the better team last night was not us, not even close.
Orton has lead our 1st team offense to 10 total points in 6 quarters of football (13 if you assume we kick a FG last week). That is 7 points less than Cutler, 4 points less than Hasselback and the same amount of points as Shaun Hill managed in score on us in two quarters of football. And 4 points less than Simms managed in his two quarters as our QB.
Our O took a big step back last night. We can’t run the ball! And not just because Buckhalter is ineffective (which he is), but because our O-line is also ineffective. Weigmann was the worst player on the field last night, Clady was a close 2nd.
Last night we looked poorly coached on offense (O-linemen running around down the field, 1st string WRs and RBs running the wrong routes, penalties galore, and silly coach’s challenges).
I’m thrilled the D looks much improved, but the O looks much worse than the 2008 version. The special teams looks fine until they give up what was essentially a TD return (why do we kick to Hester?).
The 1st string D looked good for the most part (lots of 3 and outs). Yet no sacks or turnovers and we were still losing 17-3 at halftime. Andra Davis is a huge liability in the passing game and Haggan is begging to be replaced (except that Ayers brought nothing, again). Alphonso Smith was brutally bad in coverage (vs a fellow rookie) and whiffed with some very lazy efforts in run support. McBath = nothing. Right now, our best rookies look like McKinley and Burton. In fact, McKinley has been our only big play skill position player all preseason.
I’m sure this game will get plenty of sugar coating over the next few days here at MHR, but we got our asses kicked at INVESCO. Big step back for our team. The Broncos I saw in games 1 and 2 looked like a competitive NFL football team. Last night’s version of the Broncos is a 4-12 team. Offensively, this Bronco team is not ready for week one, but we are too banged up to play our starters vs Arizona. Last night was a big big bummer.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
by McGeorge on Aug 31, 2009 8:06 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Again...
Great post, great post, great post, then the “this will get sugar-coated on MHR” comment. Can’t you just have a good take without ruining it??
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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by John Bena on Aug 31, 2009 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Once I see some actual balance on this site, I’ll come around to not pointing out the clear bias.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
You missed the point completely . . .
You have a great post, then ruin it with you slant. Just post and leave the inuendo out of it. Its very simple!
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
by HSFBCoach on Aug 31, 2009 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You guys don’t like my slant because it’s typically in contract the MHR’s slant.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Don't think so . . .
But I wouldn’t expect less from you McGeorge.
You are a frustrating person to talk with for the reason posted above. You have GREAT points, but screw them up with personal inuendo and slant.
You have alot to offer this site. You are critical and provide good insight. But until you stop with the slant, jabs, etc., your comments will look nothing more than trollish.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
by HSFBCoach on Aug 31, 2009 8:39 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Coming from a guy that did nothing but beat down on Orlando Pace and Chicago’s terrible offense during last nights game. You were focused completely on Chicago. It was like you want Chicago and Cutler to be bad more than you want Denver to be good.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
I was commenting on Chicago . . .
but more in response to the poor announcing by Michaels and Collinsworth and response to all the trolls on the blog. I was perturbed by all the Cutler talk . . . and watching Pace get worked was my outlet. Do I think the Bears are over rated . . . heck yes! Minnesota will run all over them; Cutler will be broken in two by their defensive ends who will go off on Pace.
I want the Broncos to be good. And I posted my feelings and concerns last night. I was disappointed by the first half. I didn’t think McDaniels showed enough committment to the run until Brandstater came in. Is that a planned action? I don’t know.
But don’t construe my comments last night as anything more than venting my frustration about the trollage that was going on.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
The running game....
Is not being emphasized in the sme way as the passing game right now. In all three games he has had Orton passing in the short game on most every down.
In the second half especialy with Simms in the first game and with Branstater in this one, he has had a run heavy offensive scheme with downfield passing mixed in.
My opinion is that he wants the starter (Orton) to concentrate on the complexities of the short to medium passing routes and in the second half he is working on the running game and a different look passing attack. Part of this its taking someof the pressure off the QBs who are operating with second tier guys. Part of it is to disguise I think some aspects of the offensive scheme.
One thing is certain though. In the NFL, teams seldom look like they did in the pre-season once the games begin to count. And to take that further, half the teams will look completely different in the second game that counts than they did in the first one. Then, a point we should all be aware of, teams often look completely different in December than they did in September.
I have no worries that we are going to have a very effective running game this year. But I think KcDaniels is playing these games to accomplish goals first and winning is a secondary objective that is sometimes sacraficed to get the primary goals done.
Once the season starts, the only goal will be winning. I don’t think we have seen anything like what this team will look like in Cincy.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
Think of it this way: People don't like to be labeled as biased Kool-Aid drinkers
It kind of gets you off on the wrong foot with them. You have a lot to say about football, and I appreciate almost all of it. The parts about football. But it’s like you have some kind of weird tic where you can’t end your comments without scorning all of us for not being as critical as yourself. Dude, just drop it. You’re not The Last Honest Man in America, the proud sherriff who rides into town with the courage to talk straight.
What’s also weird about this, McGeorge, is that there are many issues on which you seem to me to be astonishingly, almost naively optimistic (the value of future draft choices, the irrelevance of the salary cap b/c one uncapped year, the nearly clear-eyed certainty that young players will be great, the idea that Brandon Marshall should be valued for his potential in the absence of problems with his hip, forearm and brain). I can start calling you mercurial, bipolar, deluded, and as trusting as my 2-year-old. But what good does that achieve?
You’re a thoughtful football fan, but not the only one.
by Chibronx on Aug 31, 2009 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions 21 recs
lets be fair — the Kool-aid nickname came from that crowd itself. It’s not like McGeorge made it up himself.
But to be fair...
The term is used amongst Kool Aid drinkers as a badge of optimism. When used as a criticism, the context changes to “blind faith fanatic”.
I think it depends on how the term is used.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 31, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Broncos fans concerning the 2009 Bears
McG – I would say that all Broncos fans want the 2009 Bears to struggle. The reason for this is because we have their 1st round pick next year. I don’t want them to suck because of Cutler, I want them to suck so that we get a good pick next year. After this year, I could care less how good/bad the Bears are. This year however, we have a stake in their outcome.
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
THIS IS MY SITE
and I have no problem with your slant. I have a problem when you imply THAT I DO. I can’t speak for everyone at the site, and I can’t promise people won’t disagree with your slant, but your BRONCOS THOUGHTS are usually sound, even when I do disagree. Look at past comment I HAVE MADE to what you say. It is usually taking issue with the innuendo, not the “meat” of what you are saying…
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
by John Bena on Aug 31, 2009 8:41 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
The point isn't your slant
Everybody knows what it is. The point is, you were snotty about it. You don’t gain respect or friends by taking nasty potshots. You don’t seem to be able to take a compliment. Do you want people to disagree with you?
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Aug 31, 2009 8:43 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I give up. If you guys are going to focus on your dislike of my writing style instead of the obvious storm clouds building on the Bronco’s horizon, then I’m wasting my time here.
Go Broncos. If you spike my Kool-Aid with Ever-clear, the Broncos look like a 13-3 team.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
It has nothign to do with your style...
Just post your thoughts, like you are, and leave out to cheap shots to the community. I don’t know how many times, and how many different ways I can say it.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
It's not your writing style, dammit
It’s the chip on your shoulder that makes it difficult for you to resist taking potshots. People keep trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and you keep smacking them in the face. Don’t be so damned defensive.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Why Spock!
You’re begining to sound like Bones!
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 31, 2009 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
LMAO
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
by metalman5050 on Aug 31, 2009 5:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Couldn't resist rec' ing that comment HT
I nearly spit lemonade all over my screen!
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Dude
It has nothing to do with your writing style. Now you are just being a punk McGeorge. Just because you don’t like all the optimists here at MHR doesn’t mean you need to have a constant battle with the majority of the people here in false pretense.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
Buh bye
I think it’s better if you just go then, really. If you’re too thick headed to get what we’ve all been saying then maybe it would be best if you just left. I was going to comment on your original post about how I agreed with just about everything, then you have to add that last bit in there
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
McGeorge, I know how you feel. And, THIS IS NOT MY SITE.
Any positive comments you make are given so much love & respect, but as soon as you make a negative observations. Whammo!!! You’re a troll.
I have NOT signed on to this sight in 3 months because of so much, and over-the-top Kool-Aid-Drinking. Also, so much slander(sp) when you’re negative toward the Broncs. I couldn’t stand it.
Your insights are insightful. But, they all are trying to make you look dumb just because you say negative things about the Broncs & their sites.
As a true fan, enough is enough. There are reality and there are dreams. I have dreams, but I know when it’s a dream.
by vieng111 on Aug 31, 2009 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
What the hell are you talking about??
Where did any of the stuff you just said happen?
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
It happens every day. I’m sick of it. Let’s run one negative article and one positive article, every day.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm with these guys, John.
If you can’t take the heat, get off of their site.
It isn't about negative or postive...
Whatever is posted ON THE FRONT PAGE is what the people that have been given the right to do it are thinking and feeling. The FanPosts are a different breed. People can post anything they want, within reason, and debate all they want.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
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Call Me! (303)731-5605
Look, I’m sure everyone has had just about enough of me, but there is so much ridiculously good football knowledge on these boards that I’m just baffled at the analysis. When I visited this site when Cutler was on the team, everyone wrote incredibly thoughtful, technical, and detailed posts on why we can win with a better defense. That’s been completely lost.
All I want to do is make sure that we don’t get too homogenized on this site so the much more football savvy fans can point out what I’m missing. I’m clearly missing a lot if the majority posters think everything is OK.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
translation:
I respect you guys, but I’d respect you so much more if you’d simply confirm my opinion!
Man, I try and extend an olive branch and you just keep coming. Don’t you see any value to having brazen and arrogant poster such as myself out here?
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
Make a strong point and I’m happy to debate it, but the fact of your “arrogance” doesn’t by itself give your posts any special weight.
On the flipside, it doesn’t invalidate them, either. I take ’em as they come, one game at a time.
Thanks, Jeff. I think we just had a moment there.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
that is because you were a troll from
day 1 vieng111
by gnarlybroncodude on Aug 31, 2009 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions
He's got everyone talking about what a great football mind he is...
… if only he’d please leave off putting down the MHR regulars.
In short, he’s got people here pining away for his respect.
Suckers. I’m not biting.
Our o-line had a number of penalties last night that ruined drives. We had a lot of yardage called back. So yes, the o-line played sloppily, and that affected the production of the offensee. But we seemed to be able to run the ball pretty well once we committed to it — and again, I don’t think we are seeing the regular season offense when Orton is playing. Instead, we are seeing a coach giving his team live game reps in the system passing game so that the QB can get comfortable making reads, and so he and his receivers can get on the same page for the regular season.
When the playbook is scaled back for the backup QBs, we see more running and downfield passing. Do you really think that McDaniels doesn’t realize he needs a balanced attack? Really?
The first team D created lots of pressure, and the corners had their hands on two balls last night that I can remember. They need to convert those into takeaways, that’s for sure. But this is a new system, with a lot of players learning entirely new roles. What I saw was better coverage by the linebackers — even though they were beaten by a couple very good throws by Cutler. And it looked to me like Ayers played well last night with the first team d, so I’ll have to go back and look at the game again to see where he “brought nothing.” The d-line looked very solid against a team that prides itself on the run.
The first team offense didn’t turn the ball over last night. The kicking was excellent. Smith got beaten on a couple of plays, but he also stepped in front of a route and had his hands on the ball. He also looked good in the return game. He is a rookie, and a rookie playing his third preseason game. He’s going to make mistakes.
And no, I don’t think our line coach suddenly can’t coach. I think we’re seeing the growing pains of implementing a new offensive system — to include a number of different blocking schemes.
That is not “sugar coating” what happened last evening. It’s an attempt to describe what I saw.
It’s easy to play the put-upon realist. Why some of you empower that to the point of lionizing an obvious pot stirrer is beyond me.
by JeffG on Aug 31, 2009 9:03 AM MDT up reply actions 10 recs
I liked this.....
“And no, I don’t think our line coach suddenly can’t coach. I think we’re seeing the growing pains of implementing a new offensive system — to include a number of different blocking schemes.”
Did you see the one shot of Dennison on the sidelines after a Clady penalty, man he looked pissed.
Yeah.
On the plus side, we haven’t had too many offensive line problems until last evening. Let’s hope we can get those mistakes corrected.
Good points Jeff
I agree especially on the LB play. I considered the LBs as a unit weak in the prior games, and much improved in this one; especially in coverage and against a better passer.
Good point
“It’s easy to play the put-upon realist. Why some of you empower that to the point of lionizing an obvious pot stirrer is beyond me.”
Good point. If he’s so offended by the cool-aid and optimism, why does he come here and pick fights about it. Is it that hard to avoid a site that offends you so much?
Its likely because he enjoy’s the attention and the arguements. Just ignore the pot-shots and he’ll get go find some other troll bridge to hang out under.
Its too bad because the football points are valid and I too have found this site to be overly optimistic on select occations. However it does not insult me or get me all fired up that someone else chooses to be more optimistic than I am.
by RudyR on Aug 31, 2009 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
"it does not insult me or get me all fired up that someone else chooses to be more optimistic than I am."
+1
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
And look how much attention he's getting
Evidently, that’s what he wants. That’s why kids act out.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I've been one
I’ve raised some, and I’ve read a lot of developmental psychology. What about you?
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Aug 31, 2009 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jeff...
It’s not that either. Like I said, I may not agree with him, but what matters is it shouldn’t matter who or what I agree with, and who agrees with me. Place like the DP and others are cesspools for personal attacks, immaturity, etc. Many people are coming over from places like that with a huge chip on their shoulders.
I want MHR to be a place where you and Mcgeorge can co-exist and talk/debate football without getting personal about it. That is the point…
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
by John Bena on Aug 31, 2009 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, John
…but my own website has gotten over 15 million hits and the comments sections on each post routinely run into the hundreds.
McGeorge is a thread jacker. Just look at how many of the threads here end up becoming about McGeorge either directly or indirectly.
I’ve said it before: it’s obvious this site goes out of its way to allow all comers. But some people are so keen on making sure that everyone understands that that they’ll accept behavior that is detrimental to the discussion — under the pretense of being “open minded.”
Just my opinion. Take it for what it’s worth.
by JeffG on Aug 31, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Couldn't agree more
Nail meet hammer
by AllBroncsallday on Aug 31, 2009 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions
It's Like
You turn to someone and say “gee, it’s a beautiful sunset” and then add “you’re an a**hole”
And then when they get mad you say, “If you don’t like talking about sunsets just say so.”
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
by c_style on Aug 31, 2009 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Because
Because I recognize sunsets (I am THE expert) and you don’t and all those who enjoy sunsets the way I enjoy sunsets are A**holes. And If it wasn’t perfectly clear, let me tell you when we’re talking about mountains that you don’t know diddly squat about sunsets and you’re an a**hole. Really tiresome stuff.
Very Flat
I agree, Denver looked aweful last night. Orton’s 8-12 or whatever it was, was all on cookie-cutter screens and slants. Nothing to get excited about there. And Cutler looked great which was a kick to the nuts too.
HOWEVER, we all know that Cutler can look awesome until he’s got some pressure to win or its later in the year and he’s mentally tired. Its easy to say and do all the right things when you’ve had 5 months to prepare. He can’t keep his mouth shut long enough to keep that up and we’ll see the idiocy soon.
The Bears and their fans don’t reailze this yet. I miss him, but I don’t miss that. Additionally, Orton has been limited to the basics of the system the entire PS and also he’s missing his top RB (presumably) and 2 of his top 3 WR’s last night. I still believe the offense will be fine if we can just figure out how to be red zone winners instead of losers, which was also the problem in the Shanny and Cutler era. Funny that Shanny always focused on redzone and special teams in camp and practice, and they were still always our biggest issues.
The troubling thing was to me the frailty of the D when Chicago started putting up yards, especially from the second-teamers. Peterson’s TD looked like the Keystone cops out there, and the 3rd down completions from the entire D were pretty troubling as well. It looked like we had no answer for Olsen at all. Additionally Al. Smith looked pretty lost out there, which surprised me considering he’s supposed to be an athletic but also cerebral ballhawking CB.
Obviously still a lot to work on, however we’re running out of time before the start of the season and the ‘easy’ part of the schedule. I for one am not too comfortable about where the team is right now.
But for those who want to jump ship and crucify the organization and our crappy luck, have a look at page 3 of Peter King’s MMQB today, and get back to me on how good it is to be a Broncos fan. A little adversity sure as poop isn’t going ot make me run for the hills.
Maybe it should make us run for the Hillis
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Yes!
Love the guy. Obviously the coaches do too if they’re letting him return kicks….I’m hoping I get Moreno AND Hillis in my fantasy draft. I think Hillis will be a surprising week 1 stud.
i already
got both. and greg olsen (TE, bears). hedging bets i guess.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Agree and disagree with some of your points . . .
Overall, McGeorge, we saw the same thing. However, I saw our run game shove the ball down Chicago’s throat (against their first team D no less) in the first drive of the 3rd quarter. Am I mistaken at what I say?
I think someone said it best last night . . . McDaniels has not committed to the run this preseason. Is this by design? Who knows? But I do think the running game is there, if we would just commit to it.
I still don’t know why we kicked to Hester last night. That was a Special Teams mistake. My take of the first half is that we left the field down 10-3 when you look at it as 1’s vs 1’s. We were 10-10 against the 1’s early in the 3rd quarter. Does our offense need a lot of improvement? Oh heck yes!!! But I am not going to give up on them yet.
If our defense continues to show me what they have these last 3 weeks, then I think we have a chance this season. Just my take.
Lastly, it didn’t help our situation last night with all the injuries. We were missing 5 starters on offense before half (Gaffney, Marshall (who will be a starter if he pulls it together), Moreno, Kuper and Orton). That is almost 50% of your starting offense gone. That, alone, is a recipe for disaster.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
I think we have a good chance to be in the playoffs.
Am I disappointed about being 0-3? Yes of course 3-0 or 2-1 would be much more fun. I understand that we are installing all new systems with plenty of new players. I believe in what we are doing. With that said I was disappointed we didn’t win last night or the three previous weeks.
But I am not going to criticize you or MHR if you feel differently.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions
previous 2 weeks sorry
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions
a chance at...
being an improved football team.
not being a laughingstock in terms of defense.
competing every game.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions
McGeorge,
Solid points, but why the slant at the end? I totally agree the offense looks downright anemic at this point. I totally didn’t understand the kick to Hester after they had been going away from him up to that point. And while the secondary showed better last night than they have, but, the LB’s are getting beat in coverage or missing assignments.
Love this post McGeorge, give the people what they want! An intelligent debate that shows opposition, and shows your true colors. Slant be damned, we need more respected posters calling for change.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:02 AM MDT up reply actions
change?
what exactly would you change? another head coach? another system? really?
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions
I’ve actually got the thought that we should put together an organization to purchase the franchise for the fans. A la Real Madrid in the Spanish La Liga.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions
nice. ha ha
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Not exactly McGeorge
I would agree I didn’t feel too great about the offense last night, but you are wrong about not being able to run. Our first team offense faced their first team offense at the start of the third quarter and ran the ball extremely effectively and ended with a TD.
whoops...
I mean our first team offense faced their 1st team DEFENSE, but I’m sure that was understood.
with Tom Brandstater in there
and Chicago KNOWING we were going to run
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions
No excuses for the O-Line: Harris was in the backfield on at least 8 different plays. Obviously technique was poor, but let’s face it: Orton couldn’t get hit last night. We were too close to the regular season for another QB injury – and it happened anyway. It’s likely that the Bears were just as fired up as Denver’s D-Line and were hoping to get to Orton. After Kuper went down, Wiegmann had too much trouble helping out Olsen. I was frowning in the 2nd quarter. Hopefully with Kuper back (I’m doubting) or with Hoch, improvements will arrive. But I agree, it’s too close to regular season time to rest everything on ‘hopefully.’
I did see Davis get worked over the middle. It was easy to pick on him there. Not good. I know the second string is faster, but I don’t know if they’re better covering curl and delayed post routes. I think Woodyard was in coverage on the TD pass to Forte, and even though he was there, he couldn’t break it up. I know Larsen did little in coverage at U of A.
About the offense: I was under the impression that it was being held back in preseason game 2, but why hold back in the dress-rehearsal? With this spread offense designed to use short, controlled passes to spread the field horizontally, it seemed like all the throws were in front of Tampa 2 coverage. I’m curious, why I can only remember one throw that ended up between the 2 levels. Those timing routes when WRs get between the CBs and the safeties are vital for WRs and new QBs. I’m not sure why this wasn’t attempted more. I watched NE’s preseason games and Brady and Moss have a pretty impressive on-field chemistry that they’re now improving on. Our offense seemed strongest when the power run game set up drop back downfield throws like when Brandstater got the ball to Lloyd, who did score on that play.
I’m less concerned about the lack of takeaways. I saw Dawkins punching the ball every chance he got, and I thought Goodman had a strong game. The secondary will generate turnovers this year. It just feels like it does when Todd Helton goes through a 1 for 26 slump and gets outs through line drives right at people. You know it’s on it’s way.
Pass rush was good. Baker and Dumerville and McBean were in the backfield. I thought Cutler intentionally grounded from the endzone on one of the dumps to McKie who was at least 8 yards away.
The good news is that the early portion of the schedule is less brutal even though I think the Bengals are far better than they were a year ago. Let’s hope Kuper can be PUP’d and come back and that the offensive scheme has timing down with all the plays we haven’t seen for week 1.
by dr.mort on Aug 31, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is excatly why people get into it with you
You say a lot of good stuff in a post and then you throw out “I’m sure this game will get plenty of sugar coating over the next few days here at MHR” This turns people off making you seem like and arrogant jerk. You also come off like you think you know more are above other bloggers here. You will not get any respect around here if you continue to bash people on this site and the site in general. I now you are a in the “prove it to me group” which is great becuase i consider my self in the same group just a little more optimistic then most. If you leave out that one comment you would get more acceptance from the mob here at MHR.
Now to respond to your post. The offense looked really bad with Orton in at QB. I think I only saw him throw it more then 10 yards 2 or 3 times. Almost every pass was a screen/bubble or a slant. This really got on my nerves because it was so predictable. McDaniels has stated that this offense will do things no one has ever done before. I hope this is true but they have not show the capability of doing this yet. The O-Line played bad last night but I am not concerned with them. Kupers injury worries me a little bit. The O-Line looked really bad in the preseason last year there are numerous post on MHR stating that. The O-Line learned from their mistakes and had a excellent regular season. Also the O-line is compensating for not having the most athletic QB behind center in Orton. Orton did not comfortable in the pocket at times last night. Tom B impressed me last night. He is a pretty athletic guy and has the skills to ge a good(maybe very good QB) in the NFL. He is also very smart. He did throw that one interception and had that botched hand off(which looked like center or guard stepped on his foot. I love that he shook of the interception and came out and played better. He moved around in the pocket very well to avoid a few sacks. He also had some great throws. That one to Lloyd in the endzone was impressive. He threw the ball with perfect timing and to a spot where only the WR could catch it. That pass was also a TD. I really started to think about our QB play when Tom B came in. McDaniels starts throwing downfield and called a few play action. He seemed to open up the playbook more with him. This concerms me because you think he would open it up for the starting QB. I hope he is just saving it for the regular season.
The D looked much improved and DOOM continues to impress. DOOM man handled Pace last night and there was visible holding on at least 3 plays that never got called(including the one in the endzone) Cutler looked very frustrated for most of the first half but did have one good drive. Cutler did move the ball well on that drive and got rid of the ball nicely when he was in trouble. This one drive dow not concern me thought. Without that punt return from hester the D only gave up 10 points in the first half. Chris Baker also continues to impress. He blew up Kreutz on the one go line play and Krutz is a top 10 center at least. I agree that A Davis is a huge liability in the passing game, the guy is super slow. Larsen deserves to start over him.
I really can not judge the running backs because the O line did not really open any holes for them last night. The only rookie that has really impressed me is McKinley. He alway seems to get open and is always in the right place when the QB is in trouble. He also never gives up on a play. Ayers has show flashes and is very physical but he still looks lost. A Smith has looked alright, he has also shown flashes but has been inconsistent, like getting knocked to the groud by the offensive player, that is unacceptable). Bruton looks ok playing on D but has looked good in ST. I think McBath looked better at S then Bruton has. McBath is also going against the 1st team where Bruton is against the 2nd. McBath is a good tackler and cleaned up a few plays last night that the front seven messed up.
Also NEVER kick to Hester. In my Opinion Britton Colquitt has won the punter competition. He was far more impressive with his directional punting last night. Kern was very good for us last season but Colquitt has looked better so far. I guess it is a good problem to have two good punters. My Last note is i LOVE Brian Dawkins. He is an absolute beast.
by gnarlybroncodude on Aug 31, 2009 5:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Al Michaels needs a new writer
Michaels was terrible in last nite’s game, and Collinsworth wasn’t worth anything. The only thing more painful than watching the game was listening to it. I hope Denver’s body of work during the regular season will finally begin to generate some respect from the national media, but it’s tough listening over and over again to the same old crap from the “experts.” Thank God for the “mute” button.
I know it's petty
but one thing that annoys me is hearing dumb announcers mispronounce Woodyard’s name. That is, unless he really does pronounce it Wood-YAWRD, with the accent on the second syllable. These guys should do their homework.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Wood-Yard
has corrected people multiple times in interviews (and on the ol’ Jay Cutler show, when it was in town) about the pronouncement of his name, and he does, indeed, put the emphasis on the last syllable…
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 31, 2009 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions
I'll be darned
I stand corrected, then. Thanks.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Ya you know it's pretty bad,
when your wife makes this comment “Honey, do you think the annoucers are in love with Cutler.”
No kidding...
The love affair with Cutler was sickening. When he was playing for Denver he didn’t get all that love, but when traded it was like we traded the best player in the NFL. It was sickening….almost like Madden when he was talking about Brady
Michaels and Collinsworth
And Harrison also just got on the party line that the Broncos traded Cutler after his first snit. They don’t know what they are talking about. They were pathetic last night. I miss John Madden.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
Has any of the MSM sites admitted that our defense is alot better than expected?
Just curious.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
We are 0-3 and have given up 10, 14 and 17 points in the 1st half of our three games. Opposing QBs have the highest QB rating against Denver of any team in the NFL.
Sure we look better than last year, but hardly worth praise that a team like Baltimore or Pitt gets.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
When you consider that the defense, too,
is learning a complete new system, with linemen that many people consider to be subpar, i think the defense has done surprisingly well. Yes, pass defense is a concern. It might be because we’re trying first to establish a competent run defense, it might be because the players haven’t mastered all the intricacies of the defense, or both. But like you I’m concerned and hope it gets better.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
D
Our run D and pass rush look better in the limited time we’ve seen them but I’m worried about the linebacker pass coverage. We’ve looked aweful so far in that regard.
When the first string defense
starts getting tired, we’re going to be substituting the 2nd string guys in there, which makes me real nervous about this team going 4 quarters and getting tired.
Our 2nd/3rd string D look woeful
Yes, lack of quality d-line depth is a problem
The play of the starters has been a pleasant surprise, but it would be too much to expect six or seven surprises. We’ve been pretty good at ball control drives so far, considering how new the system is, and that’s the best way to compensate for the lack of depth.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
You don’t put the whole 2nd/3rd string in at once though — that is what people keep missing
by Todd Jewell on Aug 31, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
I heard Cris and Al say it once or twice.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
Special Teams!!
The “Punt-Off” is no longer even. Kern Out kicks the coverage – right to Hester – TD Bears. Colquitt Two kicks inside the 5 yard line. One of which is a “Coffin Corner” – going out of bounds at the one yd line…..Awesome!!
Colquitt can kick field goals. Now, if his teammates can keep him out of the late night bars – we may have something .
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
Kern should be cut TODAY. Hell, cut them both. Let BQ take over both duties. How progressive would that be? Having 52 real players. It’d get Jamie Dookies off our jock for a while.
the first five cuts come tomorrow
Kern may have lsot his job last night…
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 31, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Maturity
I know the MHR writers are enamored with Josh McDaniels, and I have tried to get to like him.
I am not succeeding.
He simply continues to lack maturity and credibility every time I see him in action.
Who really believes him when he said that last night’s game wasn’t about Jay Cutler? My view of the way the team behaved and the way the crowd was pumped up was that a strong message was sent to put Cutler in a demonic light. The Bronco players did not play under control. They were also tight and not confident. No one sent a message of business as usual last night. Denver tried to make Cutler look bad and instead it rebounded against the Broncos.
It’s time to let go of Cutler. He is gone.
It’s time for McDaniels to become a bit less smug in his hoodie and have a bit more humility and be more encouraging with his players.
I was impressed with the defense, I think Nolan is doing a good job there. Some of those punts blew me away as well, good coaching going on there.
I just don’t feel that way about McDaniels. I’m sorry. I really am trying, but even my twenty-something son, who has never seen him in action before, called me to stick me about my Bronco loyalty and said “Who is that punk in the hoodie they have roaming the sidelines?’” His press conference after the game sent me the message that the fault is with everyone else, never with him.
Lots of players have to grow up, but I think a major need in Denver is for the coach to mature. He has done some good things, and he has had some bad luck as well as made a poor decision or two, but its not too late for him to show a sense of humor and humility. He should have searched out Cutler at the end of the game and congratulated him on his success last night.
Lou Saban and Floyd Little came to terms with each other. Dan Reeves grew up as a coach, and he was man enough to go to Elway’s induction into the HOF. I would like to see similar growth in Josh McDaniels.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 9:13 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Well said and rec’d. Copying what Belichick did in Cleveland will cost us our franchise. Kosar anyone…
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions
You read the Krieger article.
Well, I will copy exactly what I commented about that yesterday —
That column is all nice and sweet, but it is pretty much wrong all the way around. People love bringing up Belichick’s history in Cleveland as some kind of black eye. He came to a team that was 3-13 the year before his arrival. His record year-by-year —
1991 – 6-10
1992 – 7-9
1993 – 7-9
1994 – 11-5 The Browns beat Parcell’s Patriots in the playoffs in 94.
1995 – 5-11 (The Browns were 3-4 when Art Modell announced he was moving the team. The cloud of the move had hovered over the team and city for a year, since Jacobs Field a Gund Arena opened in 1994.)
The point of all of this is simple. Belichick had the team going in the right direction before the move. That, and the Belichick didn’t move to replace Kosar until prior to the 1993 season when he signed Vinny Testaverde. It didn’t happen as soon as Belichick arrived. The ‘diminishing skills’ comment Bill made about Kosar was right. Bernie never was a starter again.
There were alot of mitigating circumstances regarding the Belichick/Koasr situation. Of course, Kosar had won alot of games for the Browns, and had John Elway to blame for not playing in 3 Super Bowls, a far better resume than Jay Cutler has.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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by John Bena on Aug 31, 2009 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent Point John
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m pretty much over debating the Cutler situation. I’m just asking in all hyperbole, what if everyone on here is wrong? How do you turn a rabid fanbase so sour in one offseason? What if everyone develops schemes to stop the Patriots system because every team in the league runs it? I know we’re trying to be optimistic on here, but if it all breaks bad, and we didn’t do anything about it, won’t you be upset?
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Eventually there will be a way to stop the Amoeba
I agree to that.
We better evolve to succeed.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
So is this transition to a bubble screen offense an attempt to fit college players to the NFL system, or is it all that McDaniels knows?
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions
I hate the bubble-screen, and saw enough of it last year to know I hope to see very little of it again….
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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I do not think we are showing a lot
of what New England does or what we will do in the first game.
I honestly believe McDaniels is shrewd. I believe that he has an innovative mind. He, like us, is adjusting to the new team and the personnel. Everyone is trying to understand the fundamentals of the Amoeba and then build on it.
Its all going to be fun before we get too far into the season. Provided we survive the injury bug.
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions
And there's your acid test
It shouldn’t be weird to assume that McDaniels hides his cards in the preseason, that he has ideas about valuing future draft picks, & c. All coaches do this, and the hallmark of the Patriot way is that they do so more aggressively and thoroughly than everyone else.
Yet somehow, the idea that the preseason is just a warm-up and not the entirety of the Broncos’ playbook is the fringe, outsider position. The idea that the new coach knows less about coaching than guys sitting on the couch is the default assumption. It’s really weird, and make me wonder if I haven’t lost my mind when I read the paper in the morning.
I'm on board with you ChiBronx
The offense won’t be all bubble screens like we showed last night in the same way it won’t be all passes to the right sideline like we saw in the first game, or 4 straight passes in a goaline situation like in the 2nd. For the preseason, it has become clear to me that McD really does not care about winning the game—he wants to get the reps in. When the season starts we will see combinations of all the plays from the past three weeks, with some brand new stuff sprinkled in. McD didn’t suddenly lose his creativity and game-planning ability. He’s just not showing it yet. Now, if I’m seeing the same things in week three…then we have a problem. But I don’t think I will.
Personally...
I won’t let 25 years of damn good success under Bowlen be spoiled over 1 ‘bad’ season, no. People will keep pointing to the Cutler situation but it is so much bigger than that. There are the financial concerns of what to do with an completely un-balanced roster – all the big money talent on offense – in the next 2-3 years. Not to mention the pure lack of talent on defense.
I have faith in Bowlen and the men he has put in place. I also have faith that if the men he put in place DO NOT get the job done, they will be shown the door….
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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"How do you turn a rabid fanbase so sour in one offseason?"
Someone taught them to use a computer?
" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "
Nope, Did Not Read the Article, but I Did Attend that Cleveland Game
You were probably responding to legendary walton, but I do have some comments on this.
John, I went to Kosar’s last game as a Brown. Drove 8 hours to the game, sat in the old Dog Pound in Bronco gear and got beer thrown on me, but I had the better of the day. Belichik called a horrible game that day and the only ray of sunshine for the Browns was when Kosar defied him, called his own play and beat the Denver secondary for a touchdown. I know Belichik has his better moments, and is a big lacrosse fan, but I was very happy that Modell didn’t bring him to Baltimore and I am not convinced he would have succeeded here.
It’s my own observations that lead me to have such concerns about McDaniels. I know he is smart, and has a plan, but I just think parts of his personality are getting in the way of his being a successful head coach. What sometimes works for a loyal assistant does not work when you are the leader.
The good news, of course, is that the rest of the AFC West may be imploding, so that Denver, with all of the soap opera, may be less out-of-control than our divisional mates.
I do want McDaniels to succeed, but not by copying someone else’s style, both bad and good.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions
with all due respect
is it not a bit early to decide he is not being successful as a head coach?
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with that...
I was responding to Walton, definitely. Yes, Kosar was essentially making up plays in the dirt. Damn near won the game, too. No one will really know if Belichik would have succeeded in Cleveland. Living in Cleveland then, as I do now, I don’t think ANYONE could have succeeded in 1995. The city was at war with Modell and the team was in the middle.
As for copying Belichik, things like the hoodie, I could care less about. What I am looking for are results. A disciplined football team that is efficient and effective in all 3 phases. We definitely did not see that last night. There is sill time, and I for one choose to be patient.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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by John Bena on Aug 31, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice Response
Modell really was a mixed bag, wasn’t he? Baltimore gets crazy over the Irsay family. Probably in both cases the fault lies with both the cities and the owners who abandoned them. Sometimes things only get done when bad things happen. You take teams for granted until they are gone.
What Denver lacked in the clutch last night was discipline, which is supposed to be one of McDaniel’s strengths. I expect that after this past Sunday’s craziness that things may well turn upwards for the team for a while.
I also agree that McDaniels may be building for the long term, although I question whether adding more second or third line Patriot players gets us to where we want to get. I just hope that McDaniels can reduce doing what he does that adds to the soap opera pot. I have an odd view of how coaches should look on the sideline and it is very old school. I think it rubs off on a team when the team needs to dress immaculately or get fined and a coach dresses like he is gardening in his back yard. When people work for me in a public arena, I don’t want them to look like schlubs. But that is my own particular weirdness, I know.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't know why you have to ruin their party, John
Facts are irrelevant in their parallel universe when sound bite words and selective evidences are all needed to make their universe appears real.
Words can fool men but Nature doesn't give a damn!
by MadDogExtra on Aug 31, 2009 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions
why the need to insult?
Why is it necessary to denigrate someone who articulates a view different than your own? Why are you on a message board that promotes dialog if you don’t want to read views that may differ from your perception of reality?
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
You have an issue with your logical reasoning
“Why is it necessary to denigrate someone who articulates a view different than your own?”
Different view is not a problem. Different view using selective evidences to further one’s motive is definitely a problem. You need to distinguish the difference between those twos and don’t fall for the fallacy of composition. Krieger article and very many more MSM’s articles are falling into this category, selective evidences to further their objective. Some are just sloppy reporting and some are blatantly intellectual dishonest. And my response above is mainly for Kierger’s article not for those followers who swallow both hook and sink, because they don’t know any better.
“Why are you on a message board that promotes dialog if you don’t want to read views that may differ from your perception of reality?”
Your are correct that I don’t read views that have no fact support nor views with illogical reasoning. I skip the posts entirely when I recognize the names and the chance for me to miss something valuable in those posts is like my chance to hit a lottery ticket.
Views have fact support or logical reasoning have nothing to do with my perception of reality. It exists because of its own merits without my “distortion approval vision” and whether I like it or not, probable truth is probable truth with no ifs, buts and likes. As a matter of fact, I love to read them because it shows me how limited myself in term of thought.
A message board have both of them and in my experiences with many message boards, there are more of the first kind than the latter. Very much more like 100:1 ratio, and it’s kinda sad to see the intellectual level of people displayed without their awareness of what’s showing on line. Fortunately, MHR is kinda an exception with more of the latter than the first. And that’s why I’m here.
Do I need to say more?Words can fool men but Nature doesn't give a damn!
by MadDogExtra on Aug 31, 2009 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
A bit of an overstatement
To pretend that the McD side is the one fully-rooted in logical reason.
by rururuland784 on Aug 31, 2009 10:24 PM MDT up reply actions
sorry man, but i disagree
yeah the cutler thing was a loud situation with the crowd, but (granted i wasnt at the game so i dont know for sure…) was McD rallying the booing of cutler? did he call on fans to give 2 cents of concern for cutler? hmmm…
i agree McD has a ways to go, as any 1st year head coach would. but i personally like the direction he is moving the team. i look forward to seeing how he and the rest of the FO develop The Broncos over the net few seasons. should be a fun ride.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions
respectful disagreement works!
hey, that’s what these boards are all about, healthy dialog on a subject about which we feel most passionate… what frustrates me about McDaniels is that he doesn’t seem to be very flexible when addressing problems and the New England way and New England players are not the only answer.
and, I didn’t say he was unsuccessful at this point, but I want him to be successful and my opinion is that he should make some changes in how he approaches a few simple things and he may be a better head coach.. rigidity has hurt a lot of coaches… and the ones who succeed, seem to be able to adapt their systems and work very well with all types of player personalities.
It only my opinion, I could clearly be very wrong. He may be the next brilliant and successful coach.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions
I look at Cutler and Marshall
as special circumstances. Unfortunately they were also 2 of our best players. Time will tell if it is an issue with McDaniels, but I place ALL the blame on McD for Cutler and I place NONE of the blame on McD for Marshall…
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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Just for my head
You place ALL the blame on McD about Cutler?
"Time wounds all heels" Groucho Marx
by dmitchell624 on Aug 31, 2009 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm curious about that also
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
We Agree!
I agree with you on your assessments of the Cutler and Marshall situations.
Let’s set aside Cutler as I think the divorce is working for both sides, and look at Marshall.
Clearly, Marshall has not had the kind of father figure that he needs to become a real man in life. He isn’t the first Bronco to be immature, and won’t be the last. I just hope that someone like Bobby Humphrey, whose ego ruined his career, can get to Marshall before it is too late. Agents get in these young men’s brains and exploit their weaknesses. Marshall needs someone who can look out for his interests with tough love. Frankly, I don’t see that in the Bronco organization, but it may be in others, or there may be someone who could fit the bill. Can we get him to Tony Dungy before he takes a really bad turn? I am really more concerned about him as a man right now than as a player.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Marshall might not be the first immature Bronco
but he’s set new records in the competition. I think McDaniels is giving him tough love. I keep hoping Marshall can get his act together and he keeps disappointing me. But I’m still hoping.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
interestingly,
can we see the way McD is dealing with marshall as a progression for the coach? did he learn, and grow from the situation with cutler? again, time will tell i guess.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Mentor
i wish we could find a mentor for Marshall. Someone who could help him mature. I don’t think most coaches could do it, they have their attention diverted to so many other things. I hope Marshall finds a guy who treats him right, but is honest to his face behind closed doors.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions
I thought he had that in Rod Smith
another reason I really dislike Marshall. You have to be a fool to turn your back on that man…
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 31, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rod Smith tried...
and gave up. If anyone’s gonna get through to Marshall, it’s a guy that’s not afraid to say it like it is. Someone like Brian Dawkins.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
if you want to blame anyone for Cutler,
blame Bowlen.
McD probably would have treated Cutler just as he’s treated Marshall, had Bowlen not decided to trade him.
Great point.
It was ultimately Pat’s decision.
Yet McD seems to catch hell for anything that could be negatively construed, whether it’s his fault or not.
DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid
For sure re: Respectful disagreement
i guess i took this:
I just think parts of his personality are getting in the way of his being a successful head coach.
to mean he is currently not being successful. hard to judge success at this point, is i guess what i was getting at, and i will stop putting words in your, uh, keyboard.
maybe the rigidity is important now to establish norms that didnt exist previously. changing a culture is a difficult thing, and sad to say but the culture in denver has been lackluster for some time now.
hopefully he is at least partially brilliant, and somewhat successful though, whatever the cause.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I agree that an overall plan was necessary, especially with regard to the defense and the draft. I like some of what I have seen in both areas and credit McDaniels for the positive changes.
Hey, sometimes I get carried away on the keyboard as well.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
"Who really believes him when he said that last night’s game wasn’t about Jay Cutler?"
I do.
How can I tell? I looked at the offense we ran. McDaniels is trying to get this team ready for the beginning of the season, when the games count.
Counter
I saw a team that was more focused on diversions than on playing confident offensive or defensive football. Mistakes sometimes happen when people get too tight and emotional. Why the penalties on Clady and Doom? They don’t play that way. I think there was a lot of pressure to make Orton look good last night and make Cutler look bad. Some of it was the crowd, and I thought they looked pretty silly in that regard after the first series, and the stands were empty by the end of the game, but that is what happens when you make it a grudge game. Some of my impression was from McDaniels. When people protest too loudly that something is or isn’t the case, like Cutler is OUR quarterback, or the game wasn’t about Cutler, I think they protest too much. I think McDaniels will always have this weird thing about Cutler and vice-versa. I am glad we don’t have this diversion in our division or our conference.
We need to move on.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
agree wholeheartedly.
We need to move on.
unfortunatley, as colin cowherd says, “fan” is just short for “fanatic.”
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
from Peter Kings article this morning
I mentioned to him that Cris Collinsworth made a good point on the telecast, saying he felt sorry for Orton, because Orton had nothing to do with this Cutler/Denver/McDaniels war and yet would probably be identified with it for the rest of his career.
“Well, I can tell you that certainly I don’t feel sorry for Kyle Orton,‘’ said McDaniels, his voice rising an octave or two. "Kyle Orton is one tough son of a bitch. Kyle Orton doesn’t feel sorry for himself, and no one feels sorry for him in our locker room. What he has here, both with the coaching staff and in the locker room, is a tremendous amount of respect.’
by Hoopforia on Aug 31, 2009 9:16 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
nice.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
P Britton Colquitt
On his Coffin Corner kick
“That was a thing of beauty. The Broncos have never had a kicker who can do that. The typical yutz Broncos punter will boom it out of the end zone or, in Kern’s case, go straight at Hester. Honestly, I’m not sure why we didn’t cut Kern on site after that one. Excuse me, I have to go make love to Britton’s leg.”
Ok, fine, JMac didn’t say that. But I hope he’s thinking it. If Kern makes the team, I’ll be sick. Off-the-field concerns obviously aren’t a killer issue, or BQ wouldn’t even have been invited to sign. Tactical punting has been non-existent since the days of Horan.
That had me scrambling back to the transcript...
Classic….
Yes, anyone who punts the ball right to Devin Hestor should be released immediately! ;)
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
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Luke Prestridge was pretty good at it.
P Britton Colquitt On his Coffin Corner kick
"That was a thing of beauty. The Broncos have never had a kicker who can do that.
But that was a long time ago.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
I'm a little hesitant to say this, but
this team may take a season or two to get where McD wants them. In the mean time, we as fans may have to suck it up and deal with a less-than-stellar record. Frankly, that might be a good way to weed out some of the fair-weather fans that showed up after the SB wins.
Realize this, fellas:
McD is playing with a mixed bag of his players and the Shanahan leftovers. That goes for both sides of the ball, and it obviously spills over to ST as well. We don’t have an entire team of ‘his guys’ yet.
He can’t just come in and cut everyone and start over. And I wouldn’t expect him to come in and say, “Hey, let’s just use the Shanahan/Bates offense and I’ll forget that I have an offensive philosophy of my own.” No. It’s completely within his rights as a coach to want to come in and implement his system right away.
But people need to pull their heads out of their nether regions and realize that change is painful. The Shanahan faction loves their mantra that we were “a couple of defensive players away” from a SB run. Bull___! We were a COMPLETE DEFENSIVE OVERHAUL from any kind of playoff run.
So now you have a new coach, a new FO, a new DC, a new QB, a new offensive scheme, a new defensive scheme, etc. And people EXPECT that it’s all just going to fall into place. The Shanahan faction loved to point the finger at the DCs that walked thru the revolving door at Dove Valley, but they never would admit that perhaps feeding a defensive group already lacking in overall talent a new scheme every year was a BAD IDEA. And yet they expect McD to put lightning in a bottle with a new version of the entire team. Just a little hypocritical, don’t ya think?
Give the new coach and FO at least two years. Let them get there systems established, and get the players they want. If the whole thing is a pile of camel dung at that point , then break out the tar and feathers.
In the mean time, hang on. Who knows? We may just see this team break an 8-8 record this year.
Wouldn’t that be something?
DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid
by jubei on Aug 31, 2009 9:36 AM MDT reply actions 7 recs
Don't take the zing out of my season preview...
Good post.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Smith and Sporano made the playoffs in tougher divisions and with what I feel were inferior rosters to what the Broncos have right now. Granted, there weren’t wholesale changes in philosophy, but 8-8 or 9-7 is a fair projection for this season, and that might be enough to win the AFC-W this year. San Diego’s defense looks awful, and they’ll continue to underutilize Sproles hoping upon hope that LT pulls another great season out of his butt.
Whatever the case, not even Bowlen is expecting much this year, and he spent the last 10 years claiming Shanahan could get us to another Super Bowl. So that says a lot. He’s on for the ride, as we all should be. McDaniel’s won’t be fired after a bad debut season, as bad as the bloodthirsty media wishes it so.
I think firing McDaniels after one season would be a terrible decision, even if we go 0-16. For a franchise that had a relative period of low-turnover (at least at HC… definitely not DC) you’ve got to establish some continuity. My only question is how far Bradford or McCoy will fall, because we got rid of our pick.
by legendarywalton on Aug 31, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Respectful Dialog?
Why, in articulating your points, do you need to use phrases like “people need to pull their heads out of their nether regions?”
To me, that is a bit of a conversation stopper with people you don’t know very well.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Baltimore,
I’ll admit that my post was written in a heated frame of mind. And it probably wasn’t the best choice of words. I do try to edit myself as much as possible. My apologies.
DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid
Not a Problem
I am angry we are such a divided Bronco Nation and would like to see things unite rather than divide us. I am trying really hard not to blame McDaniels for everything going wrong with the team now. I do agree that patience is important. I do agree that McDaniels has a plan. Unfortunately, I also think that McDaniels has the hard headed capacity to be set in his ways, inflexible and fully capable of shooting himself in the foot.
Let’s agree to let things play out.
Let the REAL games begin. We may do just fine with Oakland and KC imploding and a light group at the start of the schedule.
I am really glad this Cutler game is behind us.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
werd.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions
For sure.
I would hope that his youth would help him avoid being overly rigid, but time will tell. He may be overreacting a bit in order to make sure that there are no questions on that team in regards to who runs the show.
And yes, it would be very tough to be a raiders fan right now. (I do take a small amount of pleasure in their misfortune, though!)
And yes, hopefully the drama level will decrease now that the Jay game is behind us. I think we could all use a break…
DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid
Wow
Do we really need to start making a laundry list of excuses for failure before week 1? McD is being given the injury excuse already on this forum? Come on, Shanny was held accountable for an offense that lost 7 running backs, McD should be as well. We are now hoping for a miracle mediocre season? The Denver team McD took over was good enough to compete on offense and needed to improve the defense (see Arizona Cardinal recipe for success). There is no reason for the this team to be shooting for mediocrity as a goal. If being a ‘real-fan’ means I should be hoping for a rebuilding, rock-bottom project I guess I am not a real fan. I think McD is capable of producing success THIS YEAR, and I am not going to start making excuses before 1 game has been played.
by AKfan on Aug 31, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I guess the speak-the-truth troops
think expecting 7-9 to 9-7 is “drinking the kool-aid.”
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I haven't budged off 9-7
Nothing I’ve seen so far is too worrisome.
If, however, I believed that what we are seeing the first team run is the entirety of the offense, I’d be panicking. So I can sympathize to a point with some of the people in hysterics.
At the same time, I find it hard to believe that these same folks think that they can identify the problems with the overarching theme of the first team playcalling, yet they don’t think the coaches recognize it.
Entirety of the offense
I agree, if the first team is running the entirety of our offensive scheme, then where did the running game and different passes come from in the second half? Was Brandstater just calling old college plays? Those more conventional runs and passes are in the repetoire, and will be used, but maybe those aren’t the areas that need the most game-time practice? Ya think?
Yes, the aerial assualt is on it's way
Why do we assume this again?
by rururuland784 on Aug 31, 2009 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions
agree.disagree
excuses seem a little too fast, i certainly make my share. i do want to give the benefit of the doubt though, as i respect the FO and PB for past successes, and believe they are better at these decisions than i am… who am i to be critical with how little information i have? i havent even seen a regular season game coached by mcd with this team.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions
AK,
Is that what I was doing? Making excuses?
All I’m asking for is that McD be given the same consideration that Mike was given.
Nowhere in my post did I say that I was “hoping for a miracle mediocre season”. Personally, I’m hoping that the potential I see on this team actually translates to at least ten wins. Do I expect that? No. But I don’t expect 3-13 either.
What I do know is that Shanahan was stale, he was predictable, and the defense was trending from bad to worse. For some fans, it’s perfectly fine to give Shanahan all the time he needs, since we’re “right on the brink of success”.
God forbid we give the new guy the same luxury.
DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid
Indeedy
Lots of changes and big expectations from the fans. I think this one will play out well, but to think we get to the top without growing pains is wishful-thinking. I’ll cheer every week and pull for my team win or lose.
Consider me on board.
by dr.mort on Aug 31, 2009 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
yep.
my heart will break when they lose, but my fandom will not. the #80 jersey will be torn from my back and flumped in a corner until the next sunday, as i don it to cheer anew.
my heart will soar when they win, and the #80 jersey will be proudly hung next the retired #7 jersey, on disply for all the world (my wife and i) to see, and be reminded that 13-3 is possible. until its not.
Go Broncos.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by Jay Fin Anderson on Aug 31, 2009 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Well done Jubei.
Don’t worry about that Guru guy. He loves is when a member gets to his idea first. lol
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 31, 2009 5:33 PM MDT up reply actions
enough with who is to blame
he was traded lets move on.
live and die blue and orange
by jerry251 on Aug 31, 2009 10:40 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm officially worried.
I can’t exactly put a finger on it…but I am.
Turnovers, stupid penalties (that whole screen package has so much going on that a pentalty seems to be a 50-50 chance based on pure odds). Orton did not look accurate. We can’t deal with TE’s. Buckhalter isn’t playing with any intensity like he did in Philly. Orton seems to have traded Royal for JC’s BM in the ‘lock on’ department. Desmond Clark consistently ran away from Dawkins. Bailey doesn’t look like Bailey. Alphonso Smith seems to be plummeting and his unwillingness to tackle last night was alarming. Ayers?
I hope it was just a bad game…but for the first time its starting to feel like a long, frustrating season is awaiting.
I did, however, think the officiating was one sided. Doom should have got a S for being held in the endzone— it was almost a prison rape situation— and there were a lot of other non-calls that helped that 98 yard drive. But that’s the only ray of hope I brought out of this one.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 31, 2009 11:03 AM MDT reply actions
Sui Generis
I think last night was one of those crazy grudge games where people get a little crazy and frustrated.
Don’ t be surprised if Denver rebounds in a good way during the month of September.
All of the anti-Cutler stuff was really unhealthy. For all of the team preaching going on, last night got personal and it was counter-productive to a calm team effort.
As for the officiating, I think Dawkins got away with a forearm cast smack to the helmet before the ball arrived and the pancaking call on their sack was fairly weak. The officiating seemed pretty fair to me.
It was a great learning exercise, as a preseason game should be. Now, if we meet Cutler in the Super Bowl, it can be more about the Bears versus the Broncos, not Cutler v. Orton. It should be out of our system. For years, Baltimore got crazy when playing Elway, but they finally got over it. Let’s learn a little more quickly.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 31, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
+1
You are correct on the Cutler stuff. Maybe the Broncos were just too wound up. Maybe the Bears played exceptionally well. Maybe I should know better than to put too much stock in a preseason game.
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 31, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I also thought the officiating was poor...
Doom definitely should have got that call. Way too many holding penalties, many of which were very ticky tack. But we still have to find a way to play well, execute and overcome the challanges to win a game.
Like you PO, I’m also concerned about our performance, but feel that our injuries did signifcantly effect our performance. Gaffney maybe more than anyone.
As the old saying goes, it’s never as bad or as good as you think.
Overall we did not play well...
that is really the bottom line. Pepper in some injuries and it was a recipe for a very poor game.
- The team looked sloppy with penalties left and right, and as a result we really never gave our offense a chance.
- Rule number one when you play the Bears is don’t kick to Hester, especially when you are deep in your territory. We violated that rule and got burned.
- The 1st defense was probably the best of the three units. They held the Bears to a number of 3 and outs. They struggled protecting the middle of the field against TEs, especially at the end of half. But overall they played decent.
We have a lot of areas to improve on and not a lot of time to do it. Gotta get to work!!!
I have read through a whole bunch of this banter
and I don’t know what it would take to get some guys to realize that making the other poster the topic of a thread is not discussing an issue intelligently. One thing I have really appreciated about MHR is that I can come over here from the message boards and enjoy discussions at a higher level because this personal bashing has been at a minimum.
To you who think you should be able to constantly take jabs at other posters, I hope you just leave if you cannot control your keyboard. You are adding NOTHING to this site except to dampen the atmosphere around here.
Either contribute to the issues without bashing MHR and its members, or there’s the door. That’s how I feel about you.
Never argue with a fool, lest you take on his appearance. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on Aug 31, 2009 11:29 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
+100
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
by metalman5050 on Aug 31, 2009 5:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Beating a dead horse here...
…but the Longmont Times Call (which is actually one of the best small papers in the country) is still calling the Punting battle too close to call. They lauded Kern’s big kicks, including ‘a 54 yarder that was unfortunately brought back for a big return by Devin Hester.’ Uh, the fact that he kicked right at Hester more than outweighs the distance of the kick. People are so numbers obsessed these days. The complete disregard for precision kickers by Shanahan is a big part of why the team is where it is now. People undervalue how important special teams play truly is.
I don’t like quarterbacks -elvis
I that this was hilarious
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Tom Brandstater -nstater +y =Tom Brady 13-3 baby
Dawn of Denver's Dark Ages
I said it…
We are entering a new era Bronco fans. Like it or lump it we are amid more changes any team has undergone (I think) in the history of the NFL.
I have read a blog somewhere that highlights an owner that could have been called
“In Bowlen We Trust.” Bowlen does have quite the resume but his meddling has been in the background and seemed less to do about power. If Bowlen has gone power hungry, at best we will get Jerry Jones, at worst Al Davis.
Now the Chicago game.
It is preseason so this does not hold all water… however… Seahawks are one win and one Raider game away from sweeping the AFC West don’t think for one minute that means nothing to them.
If Broncos managed one safety and if Broncos managed to keep Cutler from achieving a 98 yard (mostly air bound) drive across Investco field… my criticism doesn’t exist anymore I have been proven wrong.
I deeply fear this is the dawn of a curse, Denver has had its Elway and was quickly granted his second coming. Now we may learn what it is like to struggle for 4 decades. I hope it is not the case but strap on your orange chinstrap and hold on this year will not be fun.
If by chance I am wrong at least I will not be set up for further disappointment thinking this season will be even moderately well played. I can be surprised when they beat the raiders and the chiefs and hope they sweep them, 4 wins would be delightful, attaining 8-8 again would be a miracle.
I spat out my koolaid last year when Broncos lost to the Bills… I have not drank a drop since its time for my KA class so off I go.
:)
by Skala on Aug 31, 2009 5:33 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
body language
the body language said it all. cutler gets his revenge on mcd while mcd looked like he saw a ghost. i think mcd now realizes the error he has created for himself.
Just a memory refresher....
If McD saw the Green Bay/Chicago game I doubt he’s seeing the error he created for himself. He probably pulled a muscle patting himself on the back for getting rid of that turnover magnet.
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