Horse Tracks 8/4/09 - Still waiting on Knowshon
by Douglas A. Lee on Aug 4, 2009 6:05 AM MDT
in Horse Tracks
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DB - Day 4 Report and Highlights - Broncos TV
Mike Nolan says he's not too worried about the time Ayers missed. Finally, some good sound bytes from Nolan; he offers some insight to the hybrid 3-4. Plus, highlights from practice.
DB - Ayers Arrives at Dove Valley - Zach Eisendrath
DB - Royal Making His Mark - Zach Eisendrath
Josh McDaniels was effusive in his praise for Eddie Royal yesterday. Plus, a rare quote from Mike Nolan; of course, he didn't say much of anything...
DB - Day 4: Nolan - Broncos TV
Nolan likes that it's easy to switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 within games, while the reverse is not feasible. He likes the versatility of the 3-4 and that a pass rusher can come from anywhere. Plus, his TV work last year forced Nolan to study every team around the league. It's long, but this is a great watch...
DB - Day 4: McDaniels - Broncos TV
When asked about Eddie Royal, an instant smile appears from McDaniels. Plus, he reminds us that we'll be seeing more 1-back than 2-back sets this year.
DB - Day 4: A.M. Blog - Gray Caldwell
DB - Day 4: P.M. Blog - Chris Gentilviso
DB - Day 4: Transcripts - McDaniels & Ayers
DP - Broncos' Moreno going nowhere - Mike Klis
Robert Ayers got a 16% raise over Joe Flacco's signing bonus last year. Meanwhile, Knowshon is still in Georgia. Come on, Klis. The guy's name is Cory GILLIARD, not GILLARD.
RMI - For Broncos kickers and punters, camp is a snap - Chris Tomasson
DB - Day 4: Jordan - Broncos TV
DB - Day 4: Royal - Broncos TV
DB - Day 4: Ayers - Broncos TV
DP - Nolan big part of Broncos' new defense - Jeff Legwold
LTC - Prater not resting easy - Brian Howell
LTC - Fresh Start
Brian Howell profiles Tim Crowder and his switch to OLB
NFL - Signing status of 2009 NFL Draft first-round picks
Still a logjam of unsigned guys after DHB
USAT - Job security, grand offense give Kyle Orton reason to smile - Jeff Zillgitt
AP - Broncos DBs eager for another turnaround - Pat Graham
DP - An island of status quo in a sea of Broncos changes - Jeff Legwold
DP - Broncos owner denies interest in Vick - Jeff Legwold
KMGH - Marshall Atlanta Arrest Tape Reveals Details Of Domestic Spat
DP - Mailbag: Rhapsody in orange - Mike Klis
DP - Playing the nose now big-time job - Jones & Legwold
DP - Dove Valley Days: Royal's redemption - Lindsay Jones
USAT - Rocky Mountain path to Denver camp pretty, but treacherous
USA Today's Broncos preview. Apparently, the players who performed best at OTAs and in the conditioning test for their positions get to select the warm-up music. Interesting...an MSM camp preview which is neither pro-Broncos nor anti-Broncos AND gets all the facts straight. Thanks to Elizabeth.
CSG - Glance at Broncos camp Monday - Frank Schwab
Kenny McKinley's speed and quickness stands out to Schwab.
CSG - Broncos notes: Rookie linebacker Ayers agrees to deal - Frank Schwab
CSG - Broncos defense scheming for success
DP - Broncos bio: Andra Davis - Lindsay Jones
DDN - Smith impressive so far - Daniel Williams
JS - Swift ready for Bronco ride
ESPN - AFC West's woes traced to bad drafts - John Clayton
In Clayton's latest mailbag, he is once again able to be skeptical about the Broncos without being judgmental or repetitive. Glad to see he's turned a corner.
*******************************
FOX - CAMP MULLET: Chargers want to avoid hype - Alex Marvez
SDUT - Just call him Mr. Patience
SDUT - RB Bennett may be a luxury the Bolts can afford
KCS - Negotiating with a first-round pick is a contract sport
KCS - Monday’s camp buzz | Chiefs check out receivers
KCS - Veteran free-agent wide receivers work out for Chiefs
The Chefs worked out Amani Toomer, David Terrell and D.J. Hackett yesterday.
NFP - Diner morning news: Cable’s first full year - Mike Lombardi
SFG - Raiders Silver and Black Blog : Monday camp notes
SI - Postcard from camp: Chiefs - Lee Jenkins
SI - Ben Roethlisberger looks in his element at Steelers training camp - Ross Tucker
NFL - Texans embarking on a playoffs-or-bust journey at camp - Vic Carucci
NFP - Tavern talk: Can Eagles close their gap? - Mike Lombardi
SI - Packers players have complete confidence in Aaron Rodgers - Don Banks
CBS - Vikings camp report: Ready for action, Mr. Jackson? - Clark Judge
ESPN - Camp Confidential: Titans poised to contend
ESPN - Camp Confidential: Cardinals address defense
ESPN - No avoiding the hammers for Burress - Jeffri Chadiha
Y! - Boldin changes approach about contract, team - Jason Cole
NFP - Mason’s return critical to Ravens - Matt Bowen
NYT - Twittering Between Tackles - The Fifth Down Blog
NFP - NFP scouting series: Mid-major prospects - Wes Bunting
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Morning Nyc
Thanks for the Horse Tracks.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
+1 on the Nolan comments
I have been waiting to hear from this guy for awhile. I love his candor and can tell that he’s really in his element here. Excellent hire on McD’s part IMO.
Really glad I didn't include any player's names in my screen name with all the turnover we're seeing this offseason...
Thanks NYC!
Loved the Nolan interview.. he was very honest and realistic but he seemed genuinely comfortable with the potential that the team has on D. It was really good to finally hear him speak and get a feel for the kind of D he and McDaniel’s want to put together..
Most of the things we are hearing from the players and coaches atm seem to be that the players need gelling time.. I hope that they get enough time for that, it seems like with the amount of effort that the players and coaches are putting in and the tempo of the practices that they will be some way towards being a more cohesive unit by the time they place their first game; also add to that that we have 4 pre-season games to iron out any kinks.
I am really starting to like the new look Broncos and where better to read about them than MHR!
Mornin nyc, Thanx...
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
On ESPN, there is a funny read about Heyward Bey dropping a bunch of passes in training camp. J Russell trying to complete passes to Heyward-Bey must make for good comedy when viewed live.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
KC has like a billion dollars in cap space, but didn’t use any of it to sign a WR like Toomer or Hackett before camp? That’s both dubious and unimpressive. Bodes well for us though.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
In the Camps link.
My favorite part about reading ESPN is to see what Pork Chop Williamson stole from MHR. If Denver turns out to be good in 2009, Bena and Bear’s thoughts will be cut and paste directly into Tubbs AFC West blog. You all should demand royalties.
Clayton reports on 32 teams. As such, he is a Jack of all trades, but a King of none. I don’t look for depth in his coverage, esp in a mail bag. I wrote him an email a few months back to point out Denver has proven and top shelf talent on the O-line, WR, TE and running back. He actually responded to my points with questions about McDaniels experience, the low morale stuff and questions about Orton. It was terse and an unsatisfying response. I came away thinking I’ve watched Orton play maybe twice, how does anyone gauge morale in the offseason and I’m also worried about McDaniels lack of coaching experience.
Clayton also sees everything from 30,000 feet so he has a better vantage point for team by team comparison. He might see a Bronco practice on one day, the Eagles the next, Seahawks the next and Rams the next. Seeing how several teams look does give Clayton a comparative advantage no one has a MHR. It easy to bash the MSM, but they do provide a service from time to time.
As for the lack of plan stuff… when I see Pitt, NYG, Philly and NE, I see teams with a great front seven and great QB play. I believe these two areas are the absolute key to NFL success. When I look at Denver, I see questionable QB play and one of the least talented front seven’s in the NFL. We may have a great O-line, WR crops, secondary and hopefully running game, but I’m far from sold on the QB and front seven. How many teams win consistently in the NFL without a good QB and good front seven? I can’t think of any. From what I’m reading/seeing/hearing Orton has not been sharp in camp (it’s awfully early yet) and neither has the front seven. I know McDaniels has a plan, but I believe he has made some huge mistakes that are likely to derail his plan to make Denver a better football team.
I’m fully willing to admit that Clayton (good writer) and Dukes (I don’t care for Dukes) will not be right about all their Bronco opinions. I’m certain there will be some pleasant surprises on the 2009 Broncos. But I’m equally sure there will be some unpleasant surprises on the 2009 Broncos. If Orton is average and the front seven is below average, Clayton and Dukes will be proven right about Denver struggling in 2009.
There is still a lot of time before September for things to change.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Obviously, I get that Clayton covers the entire league and therefore can’t know an awful lot about each team. But my point is that for quite awhile, he was not writing with that attitude. What of this quote after Day 1 of the Draft?
Denver rookie head coach Josh McDaniels doesn’t have a grasp on how to build a team.
Do you think Clayton was justified in writing that garbage? Do you deem him qualified to make such a dismissive and extreme judgment? This is not a matter of whether Clayton is right or wrong about the Broncos’ potential success or failure. Don’t you see the difference?
by Douglas A. Lee on Aug 4, 2009 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions
I’d like to see Clayton proven wrong.
We’ll know in a few years in McDaniels can build a winner. Anyone can build a team.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Have you actually read a single word I’ve written today? It’s not about whether Clayton is right or wrong. It’s about how he presents his opinions. Come on, brother.
by Douglas A. Lee on Aug 4, 2009 9:25 AM MDT up reply actions
I haven't stopped laughing since I read this above:
“It was terse and an unsatisfying response.”
The irony.
There is no irony. Clayton is a busy guy so I doubt he cares about my questioning of his opinions. I was actually shocked he took the time to give me a direct response. He is also one voice of many I take into account. Bena’s is another voice I listen to.
Unlike the majority of readers at MHR, I contemplate at both sides of an issue and I listen to both sides (not just pay it lip-service).
I’ll gather data and make my own judgments. Some favor The Coach (his hires, his handling of BM, his revamp of the secondary, his emphasis on turnovers). Many do not (his judgment/handling of the Cutler trade, the Smith trade, Prater, his handling of the 2009 draft, left handed Simms, Fields and his D-line mates, Andra Davis).
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Jokey stole the words out of my mouth
I enjoy when you go deep into your opinions and back it up with insight and facts, but often times we get the same feeling reading your comments…“terse and unsatisfying”
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
How he presents his opinions? How you present you opinions? They are opinions. If this stuff drives readership, I can see why they are written. It’s slant. I’m used to it.
If I expect nothing but facts, I’d listen to NPR and watch PBS, which I do every morning.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Making strong statements like Clayton has can make one look very foolish if proven wrong.
He has a lot of readers so he’d have to eat crow quite publicly. If the Coach is a winner in 2009, it would discredit Clayton’s voice and opinion. I’ve already let him know he may regret his stance on Denver. He didn’t back down.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
There it is...
Exactly what I’m getting at, McG – I think Clayton was being quite irresponsible to his readers for a few months there. He is a good reporter; he should stick to that. He is not a prognosticator or analyst.
Let’s just suppose this…if the Broncos are 8-8 this year but competitive (ie. few or no blowout losses), can you foresee Clayton eating any sort of crow?
by Douglas A. Lee on Aug 4, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Sure.
He is saying we will be worse than 8-8, like most of the MSM. I think 8-8 would surprise the majority of the MSM.
Denver could build some positive Mo on an 8-8 campaign and win over several critics. Something like 5-11 would put the Coach behind the 8-ball, which is what the MSM seeem to be expect.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
hmm
How can you say you see one of the least talented front sevens when the linebackers are all new or playing a different position and the lineman are new or playing a different position? Couple that with a new scheme and coaching staff and I would say that it is definitely fine to question it, but calling it the least talented without actually seeing them play a game is a pretty big step.
Lineup for final game last season:
Winborn – gone
Williams – changed position
Barrett – possibly changed position? [some reports at LB / S]
Webster – gone [with his helmet]
Ekuban – gone
Thomas – back, looks better from what I saw
Engelberger – gone
Clemons – out for season?
Woodyard – more experience, looked good in 1v1 to me
Robertson – gone
Crowder – back
Dumervil – changed position
Haggan – is he still on roster? I don’t remember seeing him do anything at camp
Green – gone
Moss apparently wasn’t active, course he isn’t back in camp either
I will have zero problem saying they are one of the least talented once I have seen them play against another team a few times. If our first string has a hard time getting to the QB against our first string O… well is that a surprise considering that no one could last year?
I said a lot can change between now and Sept. On paper, most front seven’s in the NFL are more distinguished than ours.
In a few weeks, we’ll have video instead of paper to make such judgments. We’ll have better discussions at that point.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
So why not wait until then
…before going on about how untalented they are?
All I have to go on now is what I read here and what I hear from others who are paying attention and have a real grasp of the line and linebacker positions.
What I’ve heard here is that Marcus Thomas was getting penetration (I heard on the FAN that he sucks and should be cut, but be that as it may), Crowder looks good at OLB (when he isn’t getting run over by Hillis, presumably), and that the QB has looked good at times and not great at times.
But I have heard Alfred Williams praising several members of the d-line, and I heard a few other folks from The FAN commenting on how Chris Baker, though raw, really looks the part of a NT and will likely make the team (and most definitely the practice squad) — and how good McBean has looked at DE.
There are plenty of folks at MHR that have not waited until they’ve seen this team in action to express their opinions on coaches, players and plans.
I’m just one of many and so are you Jeff.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Expressing opinions about direction is not the same as declaring a given
I don’t know THAT the front 7 will be better this year than last, but I’ve certainly argued why it MIGHT and even SHOULD be — all while expressing my concerns about OLB. I’ve made arguments based around weight, size, coaching, scheme, etc.
That is quite different from simply stating that the defensive front 7 has no talent. I don’t know how well any of the guys up front will play. But I can see the difference in player type between this year and last.
I wouldn’t expect you to ever fess up. As you’ve been told several times on the DP, you come off as arrogant, rude and not the least bit convincing.
When you curse in your posts and threaten to beat up Dukes in jest, some would find that vulgar. Me, I just laugh.
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Where'd you see that, McG?
ESPN.com has become so increasingly difficult to navigate and read for me…
BTW, I just added in Clayton’s mailbag – missed it this morning. McG, I hope you can see a difference here in how he’s written about the Broncos in his last couple of columns. He is a reporter, not a football expert or film analyst. So, to me it’s quite okay for him to be critical or skeptical of the Broncos; what was driving me nuts was when he said McDaniels obviously had no plan, to paraphrase. He’s back to acting like a reporter. I have no problem with those who doubt or criticize the Broncos; it’s just an opinion. But there’s a right and a wrong way of getting that message across…
by Douglas A. Lee on Aug 4, 2009 8:03 AM MDT up reply actions
Long Live Klis!
I know, i’m flightier than a pregnant woman on these guys…but Klis is sporting the attitude and knowledge to make him a consistently good read these days.
It’s interest that the primary blues will be worn only half the time this year. I wonder if we are phasing to the alternative jersey becoming the primary? I’d like that.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 4, 2009 7:59 AM MDT reply actions
That would be fantastic!
And SELL more orange jersey’s, too. Then when they pan Invesco’s crowd, it will just be awash in BRONCO ORANGE!!! Ahh…that would be fantastic!
Joe Sakic was pure class, win or lose, at all times.
by Colorado_Kitten on Aug 4, 2009 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions
THAT's the ticket!!
Pat, THINK ABOUT THE MONEY!! lol
I don’t care how it happens, just bring back our Orange!!
by AllBroncsallday on Aug 7, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
I sure am glad that the media told me how old Dawkins is
After watching his work from last season (thank you, NFL Rewind) and seeing him forcing fumbles and INTs, then watching the highlight film this camp and seeing him snatching more INTs and (yesterday) knocking Richard Quinn flat out, I guess that I would have missed that otherwise…..
Sure he’s lost a step. But he has a lot of them to give before he’s only great. Right now, he’s still incredible.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
+1
Add him to Champ and you have two proven (probable HOF) players who along with Hill and Goodman are going to be out to prove to the whole league that age isn’t that improtant and that they are a secondary not to be messed with… I would love to see teams throwing long balls on us trying to out run ‘our’ old legs and the pick getting taken back for a TD!
The new Jamie Dukes = Mark Schlereth. Fire away MHR.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4373785
Mark Schlereth said on ESPN last night “Denver’s stock is down” “the front seven is garbage” “the will struggle mightily in 2009”.
Mark Schlereth said all these things last night. The Mark Schlereth many MHR readers fawned all over when he bashed Cutler a few months ago.
Was he being fair then but dismissive and extreme is his judgment now?
Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.
Never pay attention to MSM guys.
True we are in the middle of change right now and we have no idea how things are going to play out, however in the long run I like our chances. I mean for Mark to say that isn’t really going out on a limb though with what has gone on during the offseason. One interesting point is all these media “experts” never look at the long term when discussing the Broncos, yet I don’t really care if they do.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
"Was he being fair then but dismissive and extreme is his judgment now?"
Why does it have to be either/ or?
He may have been right in the first instance and wrong in the second. Or did that not occur to you?
Really: are you implying that once I agree with something someone says, I’m committed to agreeing with every argument they ever make going forward?
Please.
To answer your question, though, I’d ask on what is he basing his assessment. Has he been to camp? How did he rate last year’s front 7 going into the 2008-9 season? Does he think DJ Williams and Andra Davis are garbage? Woodyard? Is he not sold on Ayers? Dumervil? Reid? Does he have a differing view on Fields than Nolan and Mike Lombardi?
Those are the questions I’d like to see answered as part of determining how serious to take his assessment.
Because at first blush he seems to be grading the front 7 the same way you do: no recognizable big time names = garbage.
And that’s odd, given that, if DJ, Ayers, and Crowder are in there, we have 2 number 1s and a number 2 at linebacker.
No reason to take things personal
Schlereth is just doing his job giving his opinion on a team. Step back from your personal involvement with this team as a fan and look at this front 7 objectively. Last year speaks for itself. The 3 projected starters on the line have all been around and accomplished little. None were hugely in demand this offseason by other teams. DJ Williams is yet again taking on a new position. Probably above average but has yet to prove he is a dominant lb. Andra Davis is pretty much average NFL starter. Woodyard is undersized. Then you throw in a bunch of players learning a new position that may or may not work out, Reid, Crowder, Dumervil, Ayers, Moss and you can see why the media is not willing to go out on a limb and predict great success. If you were Stink would you go on national television and say the Broncos front 7 is primed for a breakthrough and will soon be considered one of the top front 7’s in the league? His job is to go on TV, offer an opinion, get folks to watch and talk about it. Clearly he is doing his job.
Ask yourself this, if the Chiefs, Chargers or Raiders was getting ready to line up with these players would you expect them to be shutting teams down? Hopefully things come together quickly, players are naturals at new positions, rookies get it right away, old vets suddenly start dominating and the Broncos D becomes a tough unit. I think average is a good goal for this unit this year. Is the defense moving in the right direction and taking steps to turn things around? Clearly in my book it is but it may take a couple of drafts and a free agent or two to get where they need to be.
Nolan is awesome
a great, great man. I hope Denver is his home for a loooooong time.
There is no army so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 4, 2009 11:34 AM MDT reply actions
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