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Preseason Playcalling

This fanpost is a follow-up on a comment I left to an earlier post.

I've seen a lot of criticism lately of McDaniels' preseason playcalling.  There are a lot of complaints about no passes being attempted over 20 yards and the reliance on the dink-and-dunk.  Further, they hold the preseason playcalling up as one of the reasons why the Broncos will fail this year. 

It's PRESEASON!  The reason why McDaniels is so vague about injuries is that he wants to limit the information available to opponents- it's not that he's a jerk.  So if he takes such pains to limit the information the Bengals will have about injuries, wouldn't he make an effort not to tip off the game plan?

There are plenty of things to criticize.  Against the Bears, the OL which was so stellar last year looked like it was constructed by Summit Structures of Dallas.  Ayers and Alphonso Smith are coming along slower than we had hoped.  Andra Davis is looking like this season's Niko Koutivides.

If McDaniels comes out against Cincinatti with some uninspired and predictable play-calling, I will be the first to criticize.  Until then, enjoy the PRESEASON!

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 27 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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amen

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 2, 2009 10:19 AM MDT reply actions  

Limited Information is main idea right now

Niko Koutivides name was erased from my memory, until now, so thanks J/K.

I’m with you on this one, it’s just preseason. Our offense has been pretty vanilla IMO. One of the biggest weapons we have going into our season this year is our unknowns. For the first 2-3 weeks teams will have difficulty preparing a defensive game plan on us. They will have 4 very limited pre season game tapes, some info from training camp, and video from Patriots when Mcdaniels was an OC(if they even use this). Cinci may not know who are starting Qb will be until a day or two in advance. Their definitely not ready for what Moreno is going to bring to the table. If we throw deep balls and run it down Cinci’s throat Cleveland will have trouble knowing what to prepare their D for.

"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for to many men on the field?" - Jim Bouton

by diviesti on Sep 2, 2009 10:59 AM MDT reply actions  

Understand the vanilla pre-season playcalling - up to a point

But the idea that the preseason games have been intentional exercises in misdirection and that this will allow us to put one over on opposing D’s for the 1st 2-3 weeks is a serious stretch. I can tell you right now what Cinci’s going to do – stack the box to stop the run, man up their DB’s, look to jump anything short, and make Orton/Simms/Brandstater/whoever PROVE that we can beat them deep. However radical and mysterious McD’s offense is, it’s still football – you still tackle, you still cover, you still pressure the QB. To think our opponents will be unprepared simply because they don’t know EXACTLY what to expect is naive.

by CraftyB on Sep 2, 2009 11:30 AM MDT reply actions  

The post was about McD's lack of willingness to reveal information...

I think there’s a big difference between that and Patton’s Inflatible Army at Calais. Far from an elaborate ruse, it’s common practice in the NFL to open up the playbook in the preseason. What I was suggesting was that with McDaniels’ reluctance to divulge information, I find it highly unlikely that he would break from common practice by revealing information far more useful than “Orton hurt his finger.”*

*This statement is pure conjecture on the part of the poster and is not based on any statement made by the coach.

by Velveeta on Sep 2, 2009 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Maybe the goal isn't so much "vanilla"

as it is timing.

I don’t have any hard proof to back it up, but to me the play calling (especially while Orton has been in) has been heavy on plays with very specific timing. Screens (think of the Illegal Man Downfield penalties), rub routes (making sure it isn’t a full-blown pick), goal-to-go, etc. The playcalling may just be a chance to fine tune these types of routes in actual game situations against a defense that hasn’t faced them dozens of times each.

Obviously, this doesn’t answer the lack of deep routes…that (along with all our other collective guesses) will only be answered in the regular season.

"Don't feed the trolls. Remember to be polite. And please show self-restraint in comment length!" -Me, to myself, because I need constant reminding.

by Disco_Stu on Sep 2, 2009 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Crafty

Will you refute this if Cincy doesn’t stack the box against the short pass?

The reason that I ask is that there’s been a terrible amount of misinformation on this subject. Stacking the box is how you stop the run. With a short passing attack that hears some resemblance to the WCO, you can’t stack the box. You’re leaving one safety back against a scheme that uses some simple approaches – flooding a zone, using routes such as the rub that free up receivers and creating mismatches – that will kill a defense that stacks against the short pass. You’re opening up an opportunity for the offense to turn a short gain into a long one in part because the short passes are specifically designed for long yards after the catch (YAC) and you won’t have the support back that you need. A lot of the fans from last year in Denver can talk about how badly the approach worked.

I added a link that goes over several paragraphs of material on this. I don’t mean to get on you personally at all – this is a misunderstanding that a lot of announcers have fed and a lo6t of fans believe it, but it’s still a misunderstanding. I added a link to [stack the box] above that you can read if you’re interested in the other material. Thanks – I appreciate your patience on this.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Doc Bear on Sep 2, 2009 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

A good point, and thx for the link

That said, I still wouldn’t be surprised to see Cinci stack the box, at least in the early going. If I’m their D coordinator, I want to (a) make Denver one-dimensional and take away the run and (b) make them prove that they’ve got their routes & timing down. If we’ve learned anything from preseason, it’s that neither our QB or WR’s are fully comfortable in this system yet (and that’s really not a knock – how could they be this early into things?), so I try to press that advantage with an aggressive, attacking D wherever possible. Because let’s face it, while we may be willing to give McD and his system the benefit of the doubt, our opponents certainly will not. They’re going to make us prove we can actually DO each of these things – and make them pay – before they adjust.

You’re right that stacking the box can be disastrous against a well-exectued WCO – I’m just not sure we’re at that stage.

by CraftyB on Sep 2, 2009 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

Lets hope we get there quickly!

by HorseStance on Sep 6, 2009 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

We can all agree that the pre-season is for working on the things that need improvement and fine tuning. It is not about W-L.

If that is the case, why not take some shots down the field with Orton so as to work out the kinks on such plays. Unfortunately, the first long pass Kyle completes will have to come in the regular season. I’m pretty convinced he can dink-and-dunk, he has been doing this his entire career. Why not practice those passes he needs more work on (i.e. – anything over 15 yards down the field).

Love the Broncos, don't like their Coach.

by McGeorge on Sep 2, 2009 2:04 PM MDT reply actions  

Maybe it’s because Orton really is that bad and he presents more a threat to someone who hasn’t seen him throw deep than someone who has.

OR, maybe it’s because he’s that good and McDude has engineered everything this preseason so the league doesn’t even know what’s about to be unleashed on their asses. 30, 40, 50 yard bombs with pinpoint precision. And the pocket collapses, the holding penalties, the sinister ducks? Patton at Calais, baby! 13-3! Min -i-mum!

Ok, it’s probably a bit closer to the first one.

by Velveeta on Sep 2, 2009 4:43 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd for enthusiam!

Why not hope for the best? This is after all a sport that as far as i’m aware is for our enjoyment.. i for one enjoy hoping for the best!

by HorseStance on Sep 6, 2009 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

I have given it a lot of thought

Your post a couple of days ago McGeorge got me thnking. As I looked back at the Bears game I think McD showed us what type of play calling he is going to use in the regular season. Just look at the play calling when Brandstater had to take over. More runs and deep throws.
I think that the dunk and dink calling was trying to work on timing. Yes you make good points that we should have at least made some deeper throws.

I think we will see a different type of play calling in the regular season. At least I’m more comfortable (not much) at what I think is going on in the preseason games

by papasteven on Sep 2, 2009 3:40 PM MDT reply actions  

There is one other thing to consider

When looking specifically at the Bears we also need to consider the following. They have switched to a Tampa-2 I believe. The hallmark of the Tampa 2 is no long passes, keep everything in front and play a field position game. That was then exacerbated by the penalties. So not a huge worry that The Ort Man wasn’t going deep. He was taking what was available. Think back to last year’s game vs. Tampa Bay for a reminder of how games vs. Tampa 2 coverage typically work out.
Oh, and we held Chicago to 5 three and outs prior to the one long drive. Pretty darn nice (the 3 and outs, not the long drive.)

by Bradoncadonc on Sep 2, 2009 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

lovie has always ran a version of the tampa 2 in chicago. he just switched to calling plays himself this season

by lolcopter on Sep 2, 2009 4:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

thanks for clarifying

I may have been subliminally trying to block out Collisworth and Michaels and not paid super close attention.

by Bradoncadonc on Sep 2, 2009 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Right, I had heard

that about taking what they were giving us. I think it was in McD’s post game interview. Not sure about that tho I think it wasHoosierTeachers game summary that I read that

by papasteven on Sep 2, 2009 4:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

So that's why D&D got so much work...

It makes sense that even for teams that throw deep frequently, the bread and butter of the passing offense is Dink & Dunk. If you can’t get the short routes and timing patterns working, it doesn’t matter if you practice your low-percentage plays, you are going to lose.

As Disco_Stu pointed out, the Donx were struggling with their timing game, and McD has shown a propensity for making people do things until they get it right.

Besides, even an incomplete deep pass can help get the defense worried about defending the back yard. An incomplete timing route is just embarrassing.

by Velveeta on Sep 2, 2009 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sounds reasonable..

.. the fact that we got so many penalties that game shows that those screens and bubble passes need a bit of work!

by HorseStance on Sep 6, 2009 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

2 best offensive players have been absent.....

Anytime your 2 best Offensive Players are hurt or suspended…your playbook is going to look limited. Moreover, there is going to be a lack of big plays.

by Go Donkies on Sep 2, 2009 7:05 PM MDT reply actions  

Velveeta, you are all over it....

I think McDaniels worked on practicing specific areas that needed improvement as well as the back bone of the offense, which is high-percentage, shorter throws. Improving on your weakest areas and executing the bulk of your offense well are what the preseason is all about. Also, opportunities for the longer throws are bound to come if you are consistently moving the ball with the run and shorter passes.

by OrangeandBlue27 on Sep 6, 2009 10:41 AM MDT reply actions  

Preseason

I feel comfortable with the presaeason play calling. Why not work hard on the bread and butter during pre-season that will be used 90% of the time and practice the few wrinkles added in during that weks game.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 6, 2009 11:10 AM MDT reply actions  

Sorry

I wrote this before reading the three previous comments.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 6, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

Something to consider about the deep game & Orton

Orton’s longest completions in 2005, 2007 and 2008, were 54, 55 and 65 respectively.

In 2008, he had 34 passes that went over 20 yards and 3 that went over 40.
In 2007, it was 3 of 20+ and 1 of 40+,
In 2005, as a rookie, it was 23 of 20+ and 3 of 40+.

It’s would appear to be not so much a case of he can’t throw the deep ball, as he has not been asked to.

"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by Brian Shrout on Sep 6, 2009 11:54 AM MDT reply actions  

those were completions btw

not just passes thrown

"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by Brian Shrout on Sep 6, 2009 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Nice work, BShrout

Ok, can we finally drop the silliness about how Orton can’t throw a deep ball? Since Ted was nice enough to even break down the specific routes that the throws it well and we have the number showing that he’s increased and improved on it each (full) season?

I know it’s pointless of me, but I do get a bit tired of hearing certain folks continually repeat things that they (and we) know aren’t even true.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Doc Bear on Sep 6, 2009 12:48 PM MDT reply actions  

Amen, preach it Brother Bear. :)

"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by Brian Shrout on Sep 6, 2009 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

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