WHY?
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 10:27 AM MDT
70 comments
I keep asking myself why I even look for news any more on (other) blogs, the national sites, and on the local sites.
I still don't know why I do, but I need to think about stopping because this is all giving me SUCH a headache.
Why is there genuine panic in the streets (trust me if you don't live here, people are FREAKING out) here in Denver, on the radio, and on TV?
NOBODY, not even John Clayton, Vic Lombardi, Peter King, Gary Miller, Woody Paige, Mark Kizla, Matthew Berry, Mike Florio, Mike Klis, Alfred Williams, or Chris Collinsworth has any clue what is going on with the Denver Broncos.
Have you been to week 8 and traveled back from the future?
Do you know exactly what the offense and defense look like in real (read: NOT PRACTICE) games?
Are the Broncos 0-8?
Have they even gotten one interception?
Has Kyle Orton thrown more picks than TDs?
Is Brandstater playing?
WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON AROUND HERE!?!?!
(Breathes into paper sack)
Okay, you're aloud to speculate. You're allowed to let your imagination run free like Terrell Davis in the postseason, but PLEASE don't let it turn you into the emotional equivalent of Rush Limbaugh the day after Obama took office. You're better than that.
So what if the precious "franchise quarterback" (laughable tag, by the way) was traded?
So what if we go 5-11 this year (that's what Denver's record really was last year in my eyes anyway seeing as how the Saints and Chargers beat us on the field but the refs let the Broncos win on the scoreboard)? We'll get through it.
So what if you HATE the new coach? Been there before too. I HATED Wade Phillips. I HATED Dan Reeves at the end. The last few years I was starting to HATE Shanny's ridiculous personnel moves. You're allowed to hate the coach, but he's not the leader of the free world, he's a FOOTBALL COACH. He'll make mistakes. Heck, he already has. The Cutler thing was a mistake. That is...until it's not. Apparently Josh is GUILTY until proven innocent on this one. Why? I thought Broncos fans were good fans, not Philly boo birds.
Get off the ledge Broncos fans, you're making this Broncos fan uncomfortable and embarrassed. I can't read any news because its way to critical and judgemental and has so much conjecture oozing from every other sentence that nobody has any credibility and I can't believe any of it until I see it with my own eyes.
It's just a game. They are in the ENTERTAINMENT business. If its not entertaining, turn it off and stop reading about it.
A few more gripes:
Sandy Clough, get the EFF over it. Josh McDaniels doesn't HAVE to talk to the local guys. Why would he? NOBODY READS THE PAPER and most people hit ESPN and CNNSI before they even think about going back to the local stuff when they want sports news. I get it, you think he's acting like a petulant child. Maybe he is, but who cares? Why are YOU mad about it? Sour grapes.
Bloggers, if the report or rumor doesn't have a legitimate source, it's not a report or a rumor. Don't blog about it, wait and see if its true or not. No need to troll the internet looking for a sentence somebody didn't check twice. Come on, have a little respect for yourself.
The Denver Broncos, you NEED Brandon Marshall. He's your best offensive weapon and the only player that defensive coordinators have to plan for. He makes everyone's job easier (on the field). There is NO PLAYER IN THE NFL other than a top 12 QB or top 10 D-Lineman that I would trade him for. Even if we don't have him in our long term plans, we NEED him to stay a Bronco and play this year because we CAN and WILL get great value for him next year. Personally, I don't think you 'cut bait' with that level of talent unless someone knocks your socks off with a great offer. Pat Bowlen needs to call Brandon back to his office and tell him that he's the star player on his football team and that he needs him (regardless of his true, personal feelings). He needs to beg him to shut the heck up and please go help his team. It's what's best for both parties. Pat can promise to get Brandon paid in the second half of the season if he's on pace (statistically) for a good season. If you trade him, I won't be upset, it was just my opinion that you should have kept him. I won't have a bone to pick with you and I won't hold a grudge because you are my favorite sports team, and you can do whatever you want.
The fans: settle down. Stop booing. The Broncos aren't gonna be awesome this year, but we weren't gonna anyway. We might have to find better players at some of our positions before we can challenge for the AFC title, but we also might not have to. I'm willing to be patient. If you are NOT willing to be patient, go buy Madden and win the Super Bowl. If what the press is writing seems like they're grasping at straws, it's because they are. They don't know what else to write, but YOU DON'T have to read their crap. You have probably played and watched just as much football as they have in their lives. Make your own judgement on what your team is doing and will do this year. You're just as good of a judge as they are. I hope it doesn't matter to you what other people think or write about a football team that you don't own or play for. It shouldn't matter. Your opinion matters. You're a fan. Without you, the Denver Broncos would have moved to Atlanta in 1964. Don't wait for some guy in a booth or a press box or with a deadline tell you what to think about a team that you know WAY more about.
The press: Stop it. Stop throwing stones. You look like children. Wait until you can make a credible assessment of what this team can and will do in 2009 and beyond. This is a brand new coach, organization, offense, offensive scheme, defense, defensive scheme, special teams, special teams scheme. We have new QBs, RBs, WRs, LBs, DEs, NTs, CBs, Safeties, kick returners, and even a new long snapper. WHAT THE HECK DID YOU EXPECT? You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Save your judgement for week 8. Please don't sacrifice credibility for buzz. It makes you look desperate.
(Breathes into paper bag)
Thanks and Go BRONCOS (no matter what, right? Right)
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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wow. that. was. awesome.
Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away
by kentuckybronco on Sep 2, 2009 10:34 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Well Put!!
No matter what!!
I only have one thing to differ with you on. I am not totally sure that we NEED BM. I mean, like you said it is only the preseason. We don’t really know what is going on with the offense. Maybe we havent even seen the offense yet. Or maybe we have, and we really do need BM. Either way, great insights, I agree with you.
No Matter What!!
There is no charge for awesomeness, or attractiveness!!
by Bronctillidie on Sep 2, 2009 10:49 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That's cool....
like it says, just MY opion..no biggie!!
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
The main area that I disagree with you on is Marshall. Sure, he is a talent. But to my mind what we need is players that we can cheer for, and to me Marshall just does not fill that need.
Are we a great team, with or without Marshall? No. With Marshall, we will probably score a few more points, no doubt, but we will still not be a great team. Without Marshall, we will have to spread the ball around more, run the ball more, utilize our TEs and RBs more, and you will have to forgive me for not seeing that as a positive.
To me, Marshall has already burned the bridges, and I am just waiting to see what we can get for him. Without his antics, we could have gotten more, but now I don’t know. If we have to settle for a mediocre trade for him, who do we blame but Marshall himself? I hope we get decent value for him, but at this point I just want him gone.
by ITPro on Sep 2, 2009 11:10 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the post
Agree, don’t like who he is, but he’s a great talent. IF Denver can hold onto him this year, we WILL get better value later in the year or next year. Also, if he does shape up, that’s just one less position we’ll have to fill.
Regardless, just my opinion. Like it says. Don’t care what Denver does, even though it’d be INSANE to trade him or pay him now. He HAS to play. Regardless of what happens in 1 or 5 or 12 months.
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the problem is Brandon isn't
showing his “great talent” is still there after his hip surgery. I love what he did the last few years on field, but now at this point he just needs to put up or shut up. If he plays and plays like we know he can, someone will pay him, but, probably not the Broncos after this year.
by bchiper on Sep 2, 2009 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
brandon marshall is as good as gone
he disrespected his team, and the odds of him giving 100% even if he does come back is quite slim
I doubt he ends the season as a Bronco
by lolcopter on Sep 2, 2009 11:32 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
104.3 the Fan
I have become more and more frustrated with the Fan. It seems like they only play the negative side. Andrea Mitchell did about the best rundown of events going on with the Broncos, it was clear and concise, but wasn’t overly biased. Sandy Clough ignored the entire freakin thing and went right back to bashing McDaniels. If I hear that man’s voice I change the station immediately.
I was at the game on Sunday, the stadium was fairly supportive of the Broncos. Some skeptics, but no one was yelling for McDaniels to be fired, except Bears fans. The Denver media, imo, is upset because they feel betrayed by the current leadership at Dove Valley. they need to get over it.
by D-fence on Sep 2, 2009 11:34 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Sandy is an ass
The sports guys are becoming increasingly frustrating to listen to, so I prefer D-Mac and Oren.
by lolcopter on Sep 2, 2009 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love D-Mac and Oren
They crack me up. Sandy takes himself so freakin’ serious, where as Oren and D-Mac are willing to joke and have fun.
by D-fence on Sep 2, 2009 9:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Done with the Fan
For a few years now.
I was a regular listen during the late 90s and early 2000s. Sandy Clough had become increasingly unlistenable and increasingly closed-minded, and he was the most interesting guy they had. Sounds like things have not changed.
Keep Moving Forward.
by ColoradoOwl on Sep 2, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
sandy is such a tool
I remember back in 1986 when he was on KOA bashing the Broncos when they were 7-1. Then I remember this moron saying how Cleveland was gonna crusg Denver in the AFC title game. That was the day I quit listening to him. The only benefit I have living here in SD, regarding the Broncos is I dont get the local bronco bashing unless I stream, I dont
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 2, 2009 6:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love it!
Remember… domino’s pizza is not in the business of selling pizza. It’s in the business of delivering a meal to your doorstep in a half hour. Similarly, media outlets of all sizes are not in the business of delivering news, they are in the business of gaining readership/viewership and selling advertising.
Finding talented, smart people like Sandy Clough to turn absurd premises into fully-formed, rational ideas with the intent to stir the pot is the name of the game. That, in turn, whips what I would call “Negative Fan Guy” into a freaking frenzy and he lets-loose on the DP comments section and more frequently here, unfortunately. All of this can fray the nerves of even the most rational fan. It’s a vicious cycle.
As dedicated, rational fans here at MHR, we need to hang in there and keep our eyes on what’s really happening— we’re in the midst of a long-overdue rebuild. Maybe this offseason did the trick, maybe it will take a couple years. I’m with you Super7, we’re probably aren’t going to set the world on fire this year. I can deal with that.
However it turns-out, it does no good for the collective fan base to lose its shit one month into training camp/pre season. Hell, I don’t think it’s even rational to get freaked out after the entire 2009 season.
But you know that it’s going to happen. If we lose a couple games early to teams that Sandy Clough or Mark Kizla tell the fans we should have beat, it’s going to turn into lord of the flies here at MHR. It’s a shame. All I can do is hope for some early W’s to keep these guys at bay.
by ButteBronco on Sep 2, 2009 11:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Awesome post!
I don’t care what our record is this year, I’m just going to enjoy the ride and hopefully in a couple of years we’ll be back to where we want to be…the Super Bowl!!
by AltReal7 on Sep 2, 2009 12:49 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
No Matter What!
Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!
by grind_core on Sep 2, 2009 12:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post.
I was breathing into that paper bag yesterday…once I posted something though, I became serene. I hope you feel the same now. ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Sep 2, 2009 1:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
with this post. We need to stay positive. We can’t turn into the Cleveland Brown fan base, who is too cynical and negative. It turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
by PABroncofan on Sep 2, 2009 1:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
great post!!!
very timely and well said….my only disagreement is any conceding of the point that Denver will not win this year……I still see a very bright future…..I mean in the next couple months future, not two years…..thx
by BideshiBronco on Sep 2, 2009 1:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Beautifully written, Super. Enthusiastically rec’d.
by Douglas A. Lee on Sep 2, 2009 1:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic post super7
love your passion. I totally agree with coming up with my own opinions and judging them for myself. I think what has happened is most of the sports writers are suffering from “near sightedness” and can only see what someone else puts before them. Sad state of affairs I tell ya.
by bchiper on Sep 2, 2009 1:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Feel better now
after writing that? I know I did for reading it.
Truly awesome post.
I have so many friends some I haven't even used yet
by BlobTheMagnificent on Sep 2, 2009 2:12 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
super7
Great stuff – Love the end – quite right….
I do however, think that opposing teams DO need to game plan for Eddie and Peyton as well as Marshall, when he’s there. Eddie for sure.
Thanks for the post, rec’d!
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and we oughtta let someone else have a fair shot : )
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Sep 2, 2009 2:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, I don't entirely agree, super7........
If the reporters were to “wait until you can make a credible assessment of what this team can and will do,” it would be of no interest to anyone. You may have noticed super7, no articles are now being written about what the Broncos’ prospects were prior to the season of last year and if they were, nobody would read them. That is because, in hindsight, we all know what happened. It is precisely because we DON"T know what is going to happen this year, that the subject regarding how the team may or may not do is so intriguing.
You, like the rest of us, can’t get enough input about the current Broncos. That is why we all keep returning to the disreputable sources you refer to and that is why they keep churning out their nonsense. You may belittle them for what they write but don’t discredit them for providing what everybody is starved for i.e. anything related to The Broncos.
by warmick on Sep 2, 2009 2:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree.
Everyone says the same thing anyway. What information does everyone need again?
I get PLENTY of input, so I disagree with you. What info is life or death that I need to know about? Aside from injury news, which we are ALL privy to 48 hours after every game, I don’t need any other news other than watching the game, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
They are doing their jobs, and its my choice to think that they should….WAIT to pass judgement seeing as how this team has no precedent and is so new. Is it their job to pass judgement? Not sure. Is their job to report the news even if there’s no news to report? Again, not sure. Does the story make the news or the news make the story? Sure seems like the latter these days.
Its not just about the press, there’s a lot of stuff in the post, but the part IS about the press is simply a gripe that the press has lost its credibility and are playing the buzz game. Maybe the specialization of cable and internet outlets is to blame for the scramble for scraps of dirty news reported constantly, or maybe nobody has enough intel and credibility (other than Michael Lombardi) to get legitemate intel from guys who know something about a hot topic.
The Cutler thing is the single most polarizong sports event in Colorado in my lifetime, and that’s fine, but the fact that it happened, and since, Denver has played three practice games and they have a -8 turnover ratio and haven’t scored from inside the 5 at a clip you can be proud of doesn’t mean that the Broncos are cooked.
That’s ignorant. Just like its ignorant to think that Cutler was a bum and is the next Jeff George.
Realistically, all I’m asking for is for REASONABLE news. There isn’t much to reprt on because Josh doesn’t feed the local vultures. Smart move Josh! How can you blame him there?
The Rockies are in a pennant and wild card race in September. I’d say there’s PLENTY to report about.
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
AND...
It’s not that reporters or analysts shouldn’t make predictions, that’s fine, they always will, but extrapolating preseason data is simply foolish!
For instance: Matt Hasselbeck isn’t gonna finish 2009 or even week 6 with a 111.7 passer rating. Glenn Coffee isn’t going to average more than 6 yards a carry, and AP, no matter how good he is, is NOT going to pull in 7.2 ypc this year.
Maybe that means that the niners can block and that the Seahawks have played teams that are playing a very vanilla D, but that’s just conjecture. We won’t know anyway until later in the year.
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right...
Why don’t we all just calm down and wait.
You know what, I think they should take all of the games off of TV and just give us progress reports.
Thats it, I can just wait until the end of the season, and they can announce the winner of the Super Bowl. Yeah, that way I don’t have to fret or worry about my team. If they win,good for them. If not, well, they gave it their best shot!
/snark
Denverites ARE NOT RATIONAL when it comes to the Broncos. That is what makes us good fans. we don’t take a wait and see attitude and we live breath and die with our team.
That is why we are worried, that is why some of us are really pissed off, and that is why we seem so unreasonable.
I for one don’t want Bronco fans to go the way of Nugget, Avs or Rockies fans. Oh, the team sucks this year? Aw shucks. Oh well. Better luck next year.
thats just me.
by miner00 on Sep 2, 2009 3:01 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Just heard a guy call in about an hour ago to Scott and Al
He’s been a fan since like 1967 and he is now a Broncos hater because we traded Cutler.
THAT’s REDICULOUS. He’s one guy who has a really good are and made pretty throws in a really sweet passing offense late year. But that’s it.
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the comment
I don’t want to suck, but the Broncos were NOT gonna win 10 games in 2009 with what they had anyway, at least now we have a guy who has a plan. Shanny’s plan was bring in a new D every few years, get a few free agents, and draft 6th round running back until he hits the jackpot again (however unlikely). They players like the new guy, by the way. Why shouldn’t we?
Let’s do an experiment…
what has pissed you off the most that the Broncos have done in the 2009 offseason and who’s fault is it?
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about 10 games in '09. I have no problem with Shanny leaving.
At the time, I thought it was interesting, but not bad. IMO, Shanny’s message had just gotten stale. It was like an old book that you have read over and over and eventually you start skpping pages and not doing the right things. Shanny moving on was best for all involved.
What has pissed me off?
What I felt we had at the end of the ’08 season…Talent in need of refinement on Offense. Lack of Talent on Defense and special teams.
The ‘08 broncos offense was not 1 player away from being great, they had all the talent they needed, even without a brand name RB. Cutler was maturing and needed more coaching (08 was really his first year as a starter without either a rookie QB controversy or an illness literally sucking the life out of him) The WR core was AWESOME. The OL were great pass blockers. TE’s were among the best in the business. one as a blocking TE and the other a receiving TE. They put up amazing yards but faltered on 3rd down and in the red zone. That is lack of concentration and IMO some really crappy play calling. I could sit on my couch and pick out Shanny’s next play last year before the ball was snapped. I am sure that the opposing coaches could as well. That team needed coaching badly.
The ‘08 defense was quite possibly the worst defensive squad I have ever seen. The DL didn’t get anywhere near the opposing QB, and couldn’t stop the run either. The LB’s were slow and didn’t hit. The Safeties looked like they had been plucked out of the supermarket 3 hours before the game. The Corners gave every receiver a 10 yard cushion on every play and still managed to get beat deep. The Denver D was in great need of both talent and coaching.
If I am Pat Bowlen, the first thing I do is hire a GM. Get a strong football guy in there to sort out our talent defficiencies. It HAS to be someone who will have power over the head coach or it is worthless. Next, I hire Spagnuolo or Raheem Morris. I want a defensive minded coach that can come in here and bring back the days of the Orange Crush. I want someone who will push these guys to their potential and not put up with all of the crap we have seen from the Denver D over the last few years. I encourage that coach to either keep Jeremy Bates as OC, or I look to one of the other up and comers out there (like a McDaniels) to help push the offense over the hump.
In FA and the Draft, I go out there and stock up on defense. Lots of D-Linemen and safeties.
If Bowlen had gone in that direction…Yes, I think we are easily a 10 win team and probably a contender for a SB in the next couple of years.
As we stand today…I think we are at least 4 years away from being legitimate.
What we did and what has pissed me off.
1. Ignored D-Line
2. chased off a “talent QB” in favor of a “system QB”. Talent beats System.
3. Badly handled talented players. Both the Cutler and Marshall situations should have been handled better.
4. McD has shown a lack of game-day presence. Football is not just X’s and O’s. As Head Coach, you are responsible to make sure that your players perform.
5. Unwillingness to admit mistakes. Acting like a dictator is NOT the best way to win the hearts of a team.
Yes, I blame McDaniels. I blame Bowlen. If I thought he did anything, I would blame Xanders too.
by miner00 on Sep 2, 2009 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
Solid comments!
The organization went in a COMPLETELY different direction than you hoped they would. But, it’s not like Bowlen didn’t know what he was getting in McDaniels. He had to have, at some point, figured that the waves that could be created would be rough and Cutler wouldn’t be happy when Bates was shown the door. No way McD gets the job and walks into Bowlen’s office and syas’oh by the way, I’m firing Bates too’. Bowlen HAD to know that was part of the plan.
I think in your scenario, you blame Bowlen, not McDaniels. Not that it matters. And you can blame whoever you want.
I agree the Cutler situation should have been handled better, but how could the Marshall situation, consider that we DON’T know everything here.
I think we’re closer to 2 years, but you and I agree to disagree. I don’t even think you’re unreasonable at all!
I like our D line and the talent was weak there in the draft. Not like we were gonna go get Hayneworth.
I think Brady and Montana would disagree with #2. And Elway would say that he was better in a systen than when he was running in circles trying to score points.
Kind of disagree w/ #4 because I’m not sure the players haven’t performed.
And what mistakes should he admit? I’m just curious, not being snarky. Should he come out and be like, “Well, we shoulda kept Cutler, that was a mistake.”
I think you wated Denver to zig when Bowlen zagged, so to speak, and you’re bummed because you thought we were close. I totally get that.
I was with Bowlen on his decision and with McD from the start. I didn’t liuke how the Cutler thing wnet down and the Broncos’ organization has some PR to do to make fans forget about that, but that is a tough uphill battle. I thought we were getting worse and on the way to being an annual 7 to 10 win team, which, in my opinion, is the WORST team to be a fan of. I wish McD came in and changed the D and did everything he did, but in the grand scheme of things, I wish Cutler was on the team, mostly because he’s good and has potential to be a really good QB. HOWEVER, I love my Broncos. I’ll get over it. They did what they thought they needed to do, right or wrong. McD is a good coach and only tiome will tell if he can get Denver back to competing for the AFC in the next few years, because if he can’t he’ll get canned.
I feel like the blame is being hasitly directed in a lot of cases.
Here’s another question Miner, do you think Bowlen is regretting his hire of McDaniels, even after all that’s happened? I don’t, but I have the feeling that a lot of people do. I’m just asking, this is NOT a trick question.
…BTW, this is great, this is like two reasonable people interviewing each other. Its calm, honest and we’re both willing to admit mistakes. Good times MHR, good times. Thanks for being cool miner, I like where this is going. Maybe we can do a point/counterpoint thing here someday.
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks...I usually don't get such reasonable responses
Yes, I probably do blame Bowlen first. He fired Shanny, but then turned around and hired a shanny lookalike and gave him the same powers that Shanny used to cook himself.
I also blame McDaniels. He is spending WAY too much effort trying to be Belicheck. First off, I don’t know why he would have been interested in Cassel, but if he was interested, he should have called Cutler and said…“I am listening to offers for you. I don’t think I want to trade you, but I have to listen.”
Throughout the whole situation, that is what Jay was asking for. Instead, McDaniels got his hackles up trying to prove that they QB didn’t hold any power over him. Instead of treating him like a grown up, we got “I will listen to any trade offer to make the team better.”
Don’t get me wrong, Cutler didn’t handle it well either. I personally would have shown up to practice and tried to drill his noggin with a tight spiral, but thats just me.
With regards to Marshall, I would have called any and all potential contract problems into my office in January and offered to level the contract for the remainder of the current one. In marshall’s case that would be a 2 year contract worth about 5 million a season. That would have shown some good faith dealing and that the team isn’t out to screw you. Maybe that works, maybe it doesn’t and you have to trade them. Either way, it is done privately before your team turns into a laughing stock.
There wasn’t lot of pro-bowl talent to be had on the D-Line, but I am sure that there were some quality players to be had. We went after “skill positions” in RB’s and DB’s. As a former lineman, this is offensive to me personally and makes me wonder about his understanding of the game.
Brady is and Montana was much more than a system QB. They may not have the arm of john Elway, but they could make most of the throws up to 40 yards or so. I’m sorry, Orton looks like Brian Griese without the accuracy.
Elway was the ideal, a talented QB in a good system. that is what I hoped for Cutler.
I wish I could agree with you on the 2 year thing…I just can’t. We still have very little talent in the 3-4 defense, we barely have a first team, let alone a solid rotation. We have big question marks at RB and in the defensive backfield and I believe that we will have to draft another QB.
I think that McD might be a good coach. He is a good coordinator. There is a huge diference. I truly hope that we aren’t to McD what Cleveland was to Belicheck.
As for Bowlen…I suspect he isn’t happy with the negative attention. In 25 years he hasn’t been a fan of drama and preferred to go unnoticed.
I doubt that he anticipated the drama that would come with this choice. I suspect he didn’t want to get dragged into the Cutler fiaso and really wants no part of the Marshall problem.
I guess the answer to your question is that I think he will stick with the kid, but the bloom is definitely off the rose. If this draft class doesn’t pan out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a strong GM in here next year and possibly a little tighter leash on the coach himself.
A few lessons in managing the media and the players would be helpful as well.
by miner00 on Sep 2, 2009 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great response and thanks for the chat.
If anything, I think it could turn out to be a mistake that Pat didn’t bring in a GM (not a Scott Pioli, but not a Xanders either). Even if they were to serve simply as a figurehead/bearer of crappy news.
One of the issues is that players may percieve McD to be THE decision maker, right or wrong and because he’s so new, they might get upset easily. It would make his job easier if there was a GM to be at odds with rather than being at odds (Marshall’s practice shenanigans, case in point) with a guy 20 yards away from you who’s 2 years older than you are and is telling you how to do your job.
Not sure if that was a great idea, but I’ll bite for now.
I agree when you say that bringing the touchy things in house and truly opening the lines of communication couldn’t have been a bad thing, right? I have to say though that we don’t know the whole story and never will, what if it was handled that way.
I hoped for Cutler what you did, but now we have to kiss it goodbye. He isn’t coming back. We have Orton and maybe we draft a guy next year, who knows, but let’s give McD a little bit of a leash on that. I mean, heck what if Moreno becomes the new LT and Denver wins the Super Bowl in 3 years.
I think your fear about McD just being another notch in the failed Bellichick disciple list is one of the biggest fears out there. Its reasonable. I like McD but a lot of people don’t. He rubs some people the wrong way. I hope McD doesn’t have to fail before he succeeds like Bellichick did.
Bowlen can’t be happy, I agree. But if he’s so unhappy, then shouldn’t he have one of those closed door/touchy chats with anyone involved with what he’s unhappy about? My guess is that he already did, and who knows, maybe its already happened.
You’re right that the honemoon’s over but I don’t thnk we’re going to see a GM in here at any time in the near future.
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not see how you can improve the defense in the long term while keeping all of the offensive talent we had in 2008. By the time you got done paying Cutler, Harris, Scheffler, Marshall, Royal and Clady over the next five years, where’s the money for defense? Guru’s been making this point over and over the past few weeks and it makes sense. Do I wish we could have all of these guys on our team forever? Of course! I also wish I was Stone Gossard’s guitar tech. Keeping those guys together forever was just not something that was ever going to happen.
As far as hiring a defensive-minded coach, Mike Nolan has much more experience and is much more proven than either of the two gentlemen you mentioned, and McDanials is a complete coach, not just a offensive guru. Say what you want about his handling of the off-field stuff (I would argue he’s done okay there too), I’ve never heard anyone question his ability to coach— not Belichek (as he did quite openly with Mangini), his former players, or even the MSM pundits (Sandy Clough is not to be taken seriously— I believe if you slipped the guy truth serum he doesn’t believe the stuff that comes out of his own mouth) question his coaching abilities. To say that he lacks game presence after three preseaon games is pretty silly— it’s going to take at least a year to judge a guy on that type of metric.
So you would go out and load up on D-Lineman and safeties in FA and the draft, huh? I would argue that we signed two of the better safeties in FA and drafted a pair of young, talented guys so it looks like you and McDanials were on the same page there. Which D-linemen do you go after in FA? Going after a guy like Fat Albert would be nice, of course, but then there is no way you’re keeping the offense together. We signed one of the best NTs in FA in Ron Fields, drafted one of the top rated DE’s in the draft.
What other D-Lineman would you go after that you could get cheap enough to keep all of the offense intact? Would you have traded-up for Ron Brace? To me, drafting D-Linemen high is a luxury. Teams like the Patriots and Steelers draft DLineman all the time because they are stacked. Then, when guys like Wilfork and Hampton get a little pricy, you have young, talented, experienced players behind them. It’s just too risky due to the time these players take to develop when starting from scratch, look at the mess in KC. So I think picking up guys like Ron Fields and LeKevin Smith and hoping they work out makes more sense. If you can find a couple productive players out of Fields, Smith, Baker, Peterson, and McBean, then you can start thinking about drafting D-Linemen in the first round.
by ButteBronco on Sep 2, 2009 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
You can't pay everyone...
so you get rid of you QB? Thats crazy.
Yes, we were overstocked on offense, but we were wasting a lot of money on bad contracts. You can build a D without dismantelling the O.
Then Hire Nolan as HC. My point was to get someone in here to Fix what was broken…the defense. You can say McDaniels is a “complete” coach all you want, but he hasn’t proven that. He was a defensive assistant for a couple years, and Offensive assistant for a couple years and he is now a HC. He is not a “Proven” anything since this is his first time as HC. He may grow up a lot this year, but what I have seen so far is a lot of rookie mistakes caused by an arrogant young man trying to prove that he isn’t too young.
I don’t know what linemen were available, but we did pretty well a few years ago with guys like Bert Berry and Ebenezer Ekuban. Not exactly big name guys. Maybe some of these new guys will do okay, but I haven’t seen any pressure from anyone on the D-Line except for Elvis. Ayers is not a DE. He wasn’t a DE and he will never be a DE. He is and OLB and has so far been unspectacular.
Yes, I would have foregone the sexy pick of Moreno and taken a chance on Orakpo, Cushing or English. I might have packaged something and gone after Raji or Jackson. Maybe I miss, but maybe not. In this offense, we aren’t looking to feature a back anyway so to have a high priced tailback in rotation is a waste of money.
by miner00 on Sep 2, 2009 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
miner
I agree with you completely on the contracts issue.
However, isn’t this overstated? “He was a defensive assistant for a couple years, and Offensive assistant for a couple years and he is now a HC. He is not a "Proven" anything since this is his first time as HC.”
Sure, it’s his first job at HC and he’ll have to earn it. But he wasn’t an offensive assistant with NE – he was offensive coordinator and called the [lays for 4 years. He coordinated the most productive offense in the history of professional football. He also took a guy who hadn’t started a game since high school and won 11 games with him, which was very impressive. I’m fine not anointing him or anything, but we should be accurate as to what he has done and earned. I know there’s a lot of emotion right now, but it’s ok to give folks credit for what they dooright, too.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Sep 2, 2009 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's 'do right'. Danged keyboard...
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Sep 2, 2009 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 2, 2009 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get your point...
But Offensive Coordinator is not the same as Head coach or de facto GM.
I will grant that he is and has been a great OC. but he has not proven that he is some Uber-coach. There are lots of successful OC’s who never succeeded as HC’s.
just my opinion
by miner00 on Sep 2, 2009 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t implying that was the sole reason for dealing Cutler was money. There were obviously many other factors at work in that deal, all of which have been discussed ad nausea here for months. I was simply trying to make the point that the offense was going to get broken-up eventually, and the sooner it happened and contracts get spread to the defensive side of the ball, the better, imo. By “sooner” I mean over the next couple years. Without having to pay Jay a massive amount of money this offseason, we can make a run at a guy like Wilfork, and draft a guy like Spikes or Mays next year.
To me, the Nolan/McDanials combo was a coup for our club. We bring in a guy like Nolan to concentrate solely on the D, and get McDanials as our HC (Bear’s comments explain better than I could ever do on why this is a good thing). I don’t see how it would be preferable to hire Nolan as a HC when the objective is to turn around the D. I would much rather have him focused on the D everyday while trying to right the ship.
Maybe I’m mistaken about Ayers, but I thought he was a DE at Tenn? I know they originally projected him as a guy that could either play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4. As HT pointed out in his article yesterday, the “OLBs” are actually playing DE in a 5-2 base defense. You’re right about the draft though, if we didn’t trade Cutler, we most certainly would not have drafted Moreno. The extra pick and the need for a top-shelf RB made the Moreno pick worthwhile. Without the trade, I would have been shocked if we took Knowshon. However, I suspect we would have drafted Ayers at 12— the broncos loved him.
What’s interesting about Ayers’ play this preseaon is his usage. In Bronco Nut’s great “If I Were Coach” post the other day he discussed the strategy of working on weaknesses during the game. When I watched the first half of the Chicago game again Monday, Ayers played with the first team nickel package extensively. The interesting part was that Ayers did not rush the passer on a single play he was in there (maybe I missed one, but was watching pretty closely). Instead, he dropped back into coverage each time. Perhaps that’s why he hasn’t looked so great because they are working on his weaknesses.
Anyway, the great thing about these discussions is we all get to see how things work out.
by ButteBronco on Sep 3, 2009 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't really want Nolan as a HC...
He’s been there and done that…got fired for his trouble.
Ayers was a DE at tennessee, for his last year I believe. Even there though, they considered him to be out of position. He is a natural OLB in a 3-4.
That being said, I have not been particularly impressed with him.
When you look at what Orakpo or Maluaga (I have no friggin idea how to spell that name) are doing, I am afraid that we missed out with this one.
I read the “if I were coach” thing and It seemed like a big ple of excuses for why we have looked so bad. I am more of the “we are what we are” school. I don’t think we are good enough at anything yet to be only working on what we are bad at.
Again, just my opinion.
by miner00 on Sep 3, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points, good post, super7
Regarding the D – for the past three years. We’ve tossed DCs, pretended that we could bring in a ‘new’ scheme with the players from the last scheme and then bailed on the new scheme by the bye week. I’m sure that there are fans who would like to see that continue, but the rest of us were tired of the merry-go-round. We were a 5-11 team that got some lucky calls. We were dropping in points given up by 6 per year. Do we really miss that terribly? Every regime is going to do unpopular things, but McD has earned a chance.
What has peeved me the most? The degree and mode of attack that has begun to pass for debate among otherwise bright fans.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Sep 2, 2009 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nailed it BB
Agree. So much more vitrol than ever before.
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I "loved" about the idiocy of the DC situation was
Larry Coyer was pretty good. Bounced! Now in Tampa Bay.
Jim Bates brought a new system that his former players from Green Bay & Miami said would take some time for Denver to learn but once they did they would have a good defense…..after a few bad games and the bye week, Shanny redesigned the defense.
Bates left after that year and in pranced the “king of read and react” Bob Slowik as DC.
Thats when I wanted Shanahan fired.
Defense isn’t your driver’s manual. Defense is about knocking the snot out of someone so they do not want to be any where near you again.
Ironically it was Slowik that was the DC that got fired and replaced with JIm Bates in Green Bay.
Its was Slowik’s mess Bates had to clean up. I knew Shanny had lost it then.
The results bore that out. When he said he was bringing him back this year, I wanted a change immediately.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 2, 2009 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Clicking the Rec button...
while breathing into a paper bag! (Look! I can multi-task!)
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on Sep 2, 2009 3:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
by the way
http://www.michiganavemag.com/MA_SP09_100_NEW.html
CUtler looks REDICULOUS!
by super7 on Sep 2, 2009 3:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll second that
I couldn’t help but laugh when I saw those.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
by weazel on Sep 2, 2009 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid Post
You need to get over others not getting over it.
by MTBroncoFan on Sep 2, 2009 3:27 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree MTBroncoFan
Clearly super7 said what many have been feeling, myself included. That he wrote it so clearly, concisely and is nearly uniformly rec’d by readers makes it all the more “not stupid”.
You don’t agree with his post. I get that. And that’s all good. But to call this stupid and offer no explanation for such harsh criticism?
Ask not for whom the bell tolls…
by princemilo on Sep 2, 2009 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
awesome post super7
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Sep 2, 2009 3:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent post super7
I agree with everything you said. Bronco fans are used to stability and that was gone once Shanahan was fired. It will be hard, however we NEED to be patient over the next few seasons so that we can get all the pieces we need. Every team goes through something like this and unfortunatly it is our turn.
GO BRONCOS IN 2009 AND BEYOND!!
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
by weazel on Sep 2, 2009 3:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for a good laugh!!!
Where do you think all the news on the Broncos usually comes from?
The media. You may hate them all you want, but you’re like Pavolov’s dogs coming back for more. We all are.
Most of the news I read on the MHR are reported elsewhere prior to it being posted here.
So, don’t go all crazy if most of us like to play prediction. That’s part of any entertainment, trying to predict the outcome.
That’s why I play Fantasy Football. Trying to predict the outcome of my players.
by vieng111 on Sep 2, 2009 5:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Here's my thing
It’s one thing to play prediction — it’s another to say “FOR SURE” something is going to happen. That’s the tone that drives me nuts. You enjoy calling your shot? Good for you — and you’re right, you should be able to say whatever/whenever (minding the “fire in a crowded theater” allegory).
There’s a saying by one of the all-time great screenwriters in Hollywood, William Goldman, about that industry “Nobody Knows Anything”. That’s very applicable here.
As for news sources and their screaming heads, that’s another story…the line between news/opinion has long-since been blurred. It frustrates me when journalists don’t take accountability for that line or act as if what they’re reporting speculatively is “the truth”. They don’t know what’s going to happen. Neither do we. That’s why I watch. The “experts” are wrong all the time — it’s just not reported.
I think that’s at the heart of Super7’s piece and why I enjoyed it — I believe, among other things, he’s suggesting there’s too much of the overblown personality/opinion for the sake of itself. And I agree with you that the best thing to do is to turn one’s back on it if you really want it to go away.
Maybe that’s what one of the big recent debate here on MHR has been about — trying to keep reasonable debate here and discard the overblown stuff. There are a large group of people (myself included) who like the approach “let’s judge what is, rather than dancing around and screaming about what we think might be”.
Your fantasy football comment is rather interesting in context — I, personally, like my football real and as it happens. Fantasy Football is all well and good for what it is, but it’s not why I watch the game. I liked to be surprised and I always am.
by princemilo on Sep 2, 2009 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
MSM
I wish the ssports “journalists” would quit trying to protray themselves as unbiased. In todays world they are nothing more than opinion writers. They get vitriolic, and need a rise out of the fanbase to sell papers and push up views on their websites. That is the main reason I dont read the post online anymore. I can hear the negative crap on my local SD radio stations, the 4 letter, or any other MSM outlet. I get distrurbed at the anger some have at McD before he has even coached a meaningful game. Does that mean I disagree with some of the criticizm. Not at all. I disagree with the venom spewed and the hate without explaining rationally why that is. I never have tought Denver is gonna be better than 8-8 this year, and nothing yet so far has changed my mind. That being said I am so willing to see what McD has in store when the real games begin. I am optomistic about this team in 2010. I remember the buzz over Shanny in 1995. Denver was coming off a 7-9 team with a horrific defense. Shanny revamped that D, the Broncos stared out slow. They missed the playoffs that year by losing a late season home game to Seattle.
All I can say is time will tell
Nice post
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 2, 2009 6:36 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Well done, and rec'd Super.
I disagree on Marshall (I think he hurts the team more than helping it at this point, and the bottom line is, he doesn’t want to be here).
But that’s not the point. You’ve put together all of the frustration that folks are feeling, and you have the pulse of what’s going on.
Great job!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 2, 2009 6:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Our D Sux
That is what they keep saying (see SI’s preseason rankings today). Ummmm, we are 8th best in the preseason in yards against. And if you looked just at the starting D, I bet we are top 5. We held Jay the Wunderkind to 5 three and outs, and one long drive that was sustained largely by our dumb penalties. Sheeeeeesh. It’s just going to be that much fun to say “I told you so.”
by Bradoncadonc on Sep 2, 2009 6:55 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lets hold a practice together
I TOLD YOU SO
I feel better now
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 2, 2009 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
CONGRATS TO POSTERS ON MHR
I’m a first time poster and MHR is a breath of fresh air after reading DP posters over the past several years. Congrats to all of you (the vast majority) for your analysis, comments, etc., and for generally keeping it things civil.
GO BRONCOS!!
by Chilebronco on Sep 2, 2009 7:15 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
you need the number to 911?
The Post can do that
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 2, 2009 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
welcom chilebronco
gotta ask, is the “Chile” part about the country or about a food choice? ;-p
just kidding, look forward to hearing more from you
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by BShrout on Sep 2, 2009 9:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Super7
Thanks………well rec’d
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 2, 2009 7:38 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
I agree with everything you said. But I do agree with the fact that you have brought out what a lot of are feeling as far as frustrations.
even tho I don’t agree with all you wrote you really did write a nice post. So I will give it a rec’d
by papasteven on Sep 2, 2009 9:07 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice Rant
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing." -- George Bernard Shaw
by KaptainKirk on Sep 3, 2009 10:39 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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