Orton vs Broncos fans
by mbudde33 on Sep 21, 2009 5:00 PM MDT
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Alright I admit it we were spoiled! Elway spoiled us. We all expect a John Elway with each new quarterback we get. Orton... is not Elway (of course), but I like him. So far we have 2 wins. No turnovers (from him) and good team management. How do we repay him? with boos in our home opener. Of course he is not the only victim. Jake Plummer ( who won games) also had to go through this as our quarterback.
What I find odd is I don't remember Jay Cutler getting booed. well until he returned in the bears broncos preseason game. Jay cutler has a worse record than either Plummer or Orton. He lost games and threw it up for grabs more often than he should. for goodness sake even Jamarcus Russell doesn't get booed as much as we have to our starting quarterbacks. And Russell is awful.
So here is Orton coming from the bears learning a new system with a new coach won against the bengals( Amazing luck) dominates the browns! and we boo him. Gosh people support your quarterback. Elway was great. Let Orton be the first to not be in the shadow of elway. There will never be another elway. But there are players that are winners Orton is one of them. He will lead the Broncos and will Lead them strong. Already he has stepped up and admited when he is wrong. all that I have seen from the first preseason game is a man improving every game with a strong desire to win. guess what he doesn't blame other players when something bad happends. Cutler would never say he was wrong and fix what he is doing. the result for cutler 4 pick first game.
So can we support our quarterback let him step away from the shadow of elway??? I can't help but feel sorry for teams like the colts and pats when their superstar quarterbacks leave a shadow over thier francise and fans.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Great Statement MB33, rec'd
So long as Shanahan was here running his system, the shadow of Elway shrouded subsequent quarterbacks.
With a new coach, a new philosophy and a new offensive scheme, I wonder if we won’t be trying to compare apples to oranges.
Let’s give the new culture of team and the new quarterback a chance to succeed.
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
You, my friend, are getting Rec'd
Simple, to the point, and right on target.
And if that fails, on to Tom B.!
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
I most definately second the Big Lebowski here.
Orton is great for us right now, good stable personality in a currently unstable environment. In a couple years we will get the chance to put Tom in the water, if he continues to grow under Josh as expected. Its possible that he might even get a shot long before then. You never know what can happen, people can pull muscles or have other issues that hold them out of the game (not that Orton lets anything keep him from playing if he can help it!). I like Orton and I want him to be our starter, hopefully he will continue to progress and very hopeful that he will stay healthy. He’s a nice guy and he deserves all of that AND our support!
In It to Win It
It's Orange Crush Time
Agree, Rec'd, and...
it was the first time I ever gave a rude finger gesture to our home crowd ……I still feel a little bad about that, but just a little.
Quarterback by committee.
I wonder who is the best blocking QB? I predict a new Magic 3…an evolution of the WIldcat: the 3 QB set. MCD was right…. no one’s EVER SEEN IT BEFORE! Don’t make the D guess who the ball’s going to. Make them guess who it’s coming FROM!
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
SOrry... that
should have been a response to Lebowski. But Hi anyway. LOL
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Jake?
Could that really be you?
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
Lives in Idaho. Flipped the bird to the crowd. Anyone else get my “Jake, could that really be you?” comment?
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
I caught it, just didn't have a chance to reply before now
:)
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 22, 2009 6:09 PM MDT up reply actions
You asked if he had EVER seen him make that throw
When he responds that he has and gives you an example, you hem and haw about 1 play and try to twist it into is he proficient at making that throw. If you don’t think he’s proficient in that skill set, just say that. No need to imply that he is incapable of making that throw. We’ve been hearing all about the throws Orton can’t make, and yet I have seen him making those same throws with my own eyes time and again. I wonder how many more wins it will take before the Orton bashing by some fans comes to an end.
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
Please ignore
This posted in the wrong spot : )
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
Wow, talk about giving me a guilt complex. Good post, much needed and rec'd.
Being one of the senior Bronco fans at this site (since 1961) I should know better than to throw a new QB, in a complex new system, under the bus….and that is what I’ve been doing. Thanks for waking me up.
My problem with Orton is he will never be a franchise QB. I also have this funny gut feeling from something I saw in Brandstater that last pre-season game. The funny thing is I can’t even put into words what I saw—but whatever it was—it is special.
Anyway, I’m actually embarrassed at all the negative comments I threw at Orton during our game-time thread. I need to bring my game-time emotions under control.
The funny thing is, I think this funny gut-feeling I have about Brandstater is correct.
I guess time will tell.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
by Mike Clark on Sep 21, 2009 6:22 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Brandstater
If my guess is right I think that he is trying to build him just like he did with cassel and brady. Give him a few year with the leadership of Orton and he is going to be a good QB
Maybe, but if memory serves me right
Tom earned a Masters degree before he graduated…it doesn’t take him much time to learn.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Book smarts and on-the-field
smarts, quickness of perception, good decisions, etc. aren’t the same thing and aren’t necessarily even closely correlated. I think Brandstater is a quick study who might turn out to be a good QB not because I know he earned a Masters but because I saw how much he improved from game to game during preseason.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
lol
I was sharing this with HT recently, but you’ve put me in mind of something. The folks who say to me, “I’m not book smart – I’m street smart” often seem to be seeing “I’m not real smart – I’m imaginary smart…”
What I think is being referenced is Information Processing Speed, or IPS. People with fast processing on the field are more important than those with degrees, it’s true. but in this case, it’s clear that Brandstater has both, and that in his case, they’re related. He finished his bachelors early and his Masters early. He also took on 4 OCs in 4 seasons with Fresno State, yet was able to excel at the school. He is smart, he processes quickly and he should be a very good QB over time.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
I guess time will tell...
……funny us creations of God…
left us choice…
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Eh??????????
Time will surely tell but I don’t grok the rest. Given my druthers I might have chosen, if I could have seen ahead from the age of zero, an athletic body and rocket arm along with the mental attributes necessary for success in pro football. As for your apparent determination to inject religion at every opportunity in a football forum, perhaps you should get up in church and talk about the advantages of the 3-4 defense and see how well it goes over.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Wow... Somebody struck a chord eh?
I think Mike’s choice to use Brandstater’s learning speed, and ability-to-progress quickly in a difficult profession, as an example of God’s intelligent design (and not evolutionary chance) is actually quite appropriate.
He’s not commanding you to believe what he believes, he’s just stating something that he finds interesting. The funny thing about your response is that I HAVE heard a pastor use different parts of football as examples, and metaphors to help communicate God’s Word to people.
Lol… people are so edgy and defensive these days when it comes to Christianity. It’s like they are afraid it might be true or something.
"For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities (His eternal power and divine nature) have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Thanks USMC, Christianity is such a big part of my life I make comments like that without thinking
I need to be more careful around here.
Thanks again.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Or it could be that they are sick of hearing it.
I live in one of the more Christian cities in America, and I am sick of it. At the grocery store, on the street, at work, in the ‘news’, and apparently online. To me it makes about as much sense as talking about politics on a football blog (another thing many preachers aren’t afraid to bring up from the pulpit). To me the issue isn’t that he is or isn’t commanding me to buy into creationism, its that he is doing it on MHR, the place where we talk Broncos.
Lets keep it about football.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
It's not even Christianity per se
It’s just annoying to have someone “respond” to you with a non sequitur segue into their personal obsession, whether it’s about space aliens running the government or creationism. It’s not about being defensive and afraid it might be true. It’s the in-your-face proselytizers who are insecure in a society many of whose members find their beliefs irrelevant or silly. Every conversion reassures them that their belief system isn’t a total crock, so they keep trying.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Space aliens are running the government?
Dang, that would explain the almost incomprehensible nature of the special ed paperwork I have to process every year. ;-p
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 23, 2009 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Shhhhh, they'll hear you
and use their advanced technology to get inside your head and change your thoughts so you won’t even remember having suspected anything but will laugh at the few remaining desperate hold-outs who are trying to tell everybody The Truth. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Yeah they
might even make you forget your a Broncos fan. LOL
Are you a special ed teacher BShrout?
My wife is, and I can’t believe the amount of bureaucratic paperwork she has to fill out. As if the job isn’t demanding enough, pile on pages and pages of IEP’s, and the special ed teachers are part teacher part stenographer.
OK rant over.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
20 years in special ed
(as a teacher, not a student — LOL)
I’m currently running a public school program for emotionally disturbed children — so we tend to get buried in paperwork. :(
But it’s a rewarding job, so no complaints.
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 23, 2009 5:59 PM MDT up reply actions
I have a tremendous respect for those in your profession
It requires a lot of patience and a ton of self-discipline as well as a constant willingness to love. Congratulations – we need more folks who can do what you do, my friend.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
thanks
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 23, 2009 10:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Orton is in the last year of his contract
if I believe correctly. I think he might be here just long enough for Brandstater to get comfortable with the Offense and then he takes over. Don’t get me wrong I like Orton. I liked him in college and I think he will do fine with this system but I think Orton is a short term solution right now. Now if Pat B decides to give him a new contract I will be honest and say I’m wrong. It is all about McD and how he feels Tom B is progressing.
Just my opinion of course
Orton is also still only 26 years old
he will be 27 in November . So I doubt hes holding the position for Brandstater and I doubt Mcdaniels is putting this enormous amount of work in on Orton just to discard him at years end . If we win and see consistent progress from the offense Orton will be resigned as will be the starter longterm. If he does well in his first year in the offense I guarantee he will get a second year.
by Hoopforia on Sep 21, 2009 7:50 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
The longer a QB plays in this offense, the easier it becomes. Orton has the skillset to excel in this offense.
It’s clear McD likes what he has in Orton: a team first guy who is confident enough to wear the “game manager” tag and not complain. He is a leader, and — thus far in his career — a consistent winner.
He plays smart. And in time, and with good coaching, he will truly excel. But that’s only if he’s given a chance.
And McDaniels seems to think him worthy of that chance. Which is why we don’t have Jason Campbell as our QB just now.
LOOK EVERYONE!!!! (Yes, this is supposed to be capitalized!!!)
I am getting MIGHTY sick of how down everyone is on Kyle Orton.
Go check out his highlights here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQS6-v75qms
Take into account that he was playing for the Bears when they had a WORSE O line than they do now, and consider he was still 21- 12 as a starter.
he has the same athletic ability as Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Payton Manning….am I saying he is these guys? NO……but a lot of you guys are willing to write him off as a legitimate starter, only being 26 years old.
ITS INCREDIBLE AND I THOUGHT MOST OF YOU WERE MORE SENSIBLE THAN THAT!
There has been consistent improvement from pre season to now in Ortons play…and he threw some ropes in the 2nd half.
He has intangibles that ALL other players look for in leaders: humble, team first, throws no one under the bus and wins….
TELL ME ALL YOU DOUBTERS, WHATS NOT TO LIKE???
Please dont get caught up in all the glitz that Cutler had, or romanticize how great Elway was….a mans legend only shines more as time goes on.
Compare Kyle Orton to Kyle Orton…what he does for his team, and how many game he wins.
AND YEAH, IF YOU FEEL GUILTY, I AM CALLING YOU OUT….WE SHOULD ALL HAVE HIS BACK!!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
All I need to know
is our very QB knowledgeable coach saw potential in him and and is working at helping him realize it. He’s looked shaky at times but has shown definite improvement from game to game while mastering a very complex offensive system. The other offensive players are having to master it too while developing coordination with one another, but when they do so imperfectly all the ignorati sees is the QB messing up. As the offense improves no doubt many will continue to underestimate Orton, and will simply see Royal, Stokley et al making plays but not Orton delivering the ball in such a way that they can make plays. But at least we’ll know.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Sep 22, 2009 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome Spock...thanks for keeping it real!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
One thing I need to say....
Orton is just a kid still….he only has 35 games on his resume….two as a Bronco….this is a kid who is still developing, and I am seeing improvement every week….he can make all the throws, we have seen it, just give him some time to put it all together in his plodding workman like way ;)
I also see what you do in Brandstater, poise, comfort in the pocket, crisp clean spirals, but IMO he still needs a lot of work on reading and learning NFL defenses. Who knows he could end up being the next Kubiak, or he could become the “franchise” QB, like you said time will tell ;)
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein
I don't think he'll be another Kubiak
I think Kubiak planned on being a coach from the dasy he was drafted. Brandstater wants to play.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
I've often wondered
about how it would have been had the Broncos not traded to get Elway. Would Kubiak been good enough to be a good enough QB to lead this team to some victory’s. (enough to get us into the super bowl). He was drafted the same year as Elway. Have often wondered about that. Or is it like you say Mike C was he content to be a backup his whole career and be a coach.
just thinking out aloud I guess
seems to me that the few games he did play in he did pretty good, like a little field
general in the same mold as Montana would be a neat little subject to do a little research on, what do ya say Bshrout???
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 21, 2009 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions
from wikpedia ;)
In nine seasons, Kubiak went 3-2 as a starter, throwing for 14 touchdowns, 16 interceptions and 1,920 yards while part of three AFC championship teams.3
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein
was I just handed a homework assignment?
:)
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 22, 2009 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions
True,.
That is a fair assumption being…..Koob was drafted the by the same team that made a deal to get the rights of one John Elway….the day before ….LOL He knew he was going to be a back up in Denver,
But I seriously don’t believe that Kubiak never wanted to play ;)
I was just comparing him to Kubiak in IQ terms, both are very intelligent people.
And he could do much worse than being a “Kubiak” …..the man has a 3-3 record in 6 SB appearances
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein
I didn't mean Gary didn't want to play...I just believe he wanted to be a coach.
at least that’s what I saw.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Everyone wants to play
Even Rex Grossman. The data is out on Grossman and football enthusiasts can make informed opinions. Just what is your infatuation with the rookie based on?
Orton can't get no respect
He reminds me of a guy I used to play pickup basketball games with. He didn’t have great athletic skills, couldn’t “hang in the air” while getting off his jump shot, didn’t have much of a jump shot really. But his shots, ugly as they were, went in surprisingly often, and more to the point whichever team he happened to be on won more often than not. I always had the feeling that I was a better player than he was, yet I have to admit that he won more often. It was the same way at the bookstore where we both worked. He graduated with a degree in computer science the same year as his best buddty. His buddy got a dream job at high wages with a software company. He spent all day and often considerable overtime testing software — that is, playing games. Kwan got a job in the IT department at the bookstore under an old-school infrastructure guy, a fixit man who knew nothing about computers until the store went on them, whereupon he learned on the job. A couple years later he retired. The store was loathe to kick him out before then, but he was basically in over his head after the store went to computers. Kwan, the unspectacular guy, was hired as the new head of the IT department and oversaw an extensive computer upgrade, including a switch to Linux. Meanwhile his buddy, who had flashy computer skills and loads of revolutionary ideas, saw his dream job go poof when the software company went bottoms up. Know where he is now? He’s working for Kwan. Once again the unflashy, unspectacular plodder ended up on top. I like Brandstater a lot and he might turn out to be our QB of the future. But I’m really chary about underestimating Orton. He might turn out to be another Kwan.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Sep 21, 2009 8:14 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Great point Spock
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 21, 2009 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I like Kyle Orkwan
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
This is exactly where we part ways
he can make all the throws
Really? Have you ever seen him throw a decent out-route?
plodding workman like way
You say it like an in-joke, but the reality is that Orton cannot put a team on his back and carry them. Yes, team-first should always be the goal. But when that breaks down (such as the defense not holding the opponent to only 6.5 pts – ANY QB in history could win with that on their side) and it comes down to the necessity of the QB making plays that simply have to be made, Orton is not the guy and has never been the guy. Since the invention of the passing game there has been one truth that always rings true: great QBs make those around them better. Orton does not fit this category. I pray he’s just a stop-gap, because once the defense has a bad day, it’s an automatic loss.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
He threw a 25 yard out to start the game yesterday.
So yes.
As for the rest of your comment, you write these things as if you know them to be true. And yet Orton’s record suggests otherwise. You are living a lie, improv88.
I realize this must gall you — that everything you think you know about football and QBing has been thrown into doubt, that these supposed truisms on which you’ve based your fandom are turning out to be nothing more than marketing gimmicks aimed at getting jersey sales — but you’re either going to have to deal with Orton as the QB, or else spend your time stewing after every win, imagining how much more winnier the wins would be if they were carried out by a shiny toy that all the cool kids liked.
Alas and alack…
by JeffG on Sep 21, 2009 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow, I didn't think you could get more annoying
Little did I know. Have you ever met a single play that you couldn’t use to justify a complete argument? Just because someone does something once does not make them proficient at it. However, I digress. Since you are incapable of extrapolating an argument over more than a singular play, I will make a more concerted effort to make certain that my grammatical inferences take into account the precise number of instances generally required to qualify someone as proficient in any particular skillset.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
You asked if he had EVER seen Orton make that throw
When he responds that he has and gives you an example, you hem and haw about 1 play and try to twist it into is he proficient at making that throw. If you don’t think he’s proficient in that skill set, just say that. No need to imply that he is incapable of making that throw. We’ve been hearing all about the throws Orton can’t make, and yet I have seen him making those same throws with my own eyes time and again. I wonder how many more wins it will take before the Orton bashing by some fans comes to an end.
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
by c_style on Sep 22, 2009 1:06 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
That exactly what I just said
I will make the effort to make sure I am not leaving things open to interpretation. In answer to your question: when Orton proves he can win without a dominant defense and the burden falls on him to carry the load, I’ll back off.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
The Bears were the 21st ranked D last season
..and Orton won 9 (and would have won ten, if the D could have held Atlanta scoreless for 15 seconds).
As for his ability to “carry the load,” there are many ways that can be done — from a winning 2 minute drive to not making the mistakes that force you into needing last minute heroics to begin with.
What you want is a flawed action hero, not a QB.
by JeffG on Sep 22, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
My mistake
When you asked “Have you ever seen him throw a decent out-route,” I assumed you were curious if I’d ever seen Orton throw a decent out route.
What you were really saying is that Orton sucks, and no facts to the contrary will be allowed to drift through your transom.
In which case, we aren’t having an “argument,” and so there’s no reason for me to justify anything.
by JeffG on Sep 22, 2009 7:35 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You've gotta love the blog format for the fact that it doesn't let you revise your statements to better suit your needs.
improv’s needs being to assail Orton to prove that he was right about the Cutler trade.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
in reality there is nothing to support your statement
the Bears never wanted him to be the guy . They asked him to do certain things to help them win but that was never who he was just what the y asked him to be .
The Purdue team was on his back in college and the Bears went against who he was in college and asked him to manage games as thats the way they built there team . Not around a QB but around a defense,special teams ,and running game .
If you had a chance to see any of the bears game last year the coaches were finally starting to come around to the fact that hey just maybe this Orton kid could be the guy for us then Jay falls onto the market and the GM jumps on him .
But make mistake I saw a guy who was running no huddles directing an offense with no wideouts and a rookie RB an was carrying that team for stretches last year .
If we give him the time to expand his game instead of trying to fit him in this box weve already picked out based on a team we all know was conservative by nature then I think Orton can and will put this team on his back at times and carry us .
I find it quite presumptive to say that the defense won last game as bad the Browns offense has been playing going back all the way to last year . That offense had not scored more than 10 points since last NOVEMBER so lets not just give the defense all teh credit for doing what it shouldve to a poor offense. 449 yards of total ofense and 5 points and we won only because of the defense … ???
REALLY IMPROV??? GIVE ME PROOF!!! HOW DO YOU KNOW...
It is these blanket statements that piss me off.
And guess what, he put his team on his back at Purdue and also a couple of times in Chicago. because its your opinion does not make it right.
You ASSUME….and that makes an ASS out of U and ME.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Well you're half right with that statement:
You ASSUME….and that makes an ASS out of Uand ME.
And no, boydy, I’m not insulting you. ;-p
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 23, 2009 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't feel too bad I think that....
what you are feeling is echoing in a lot of Bronco fan hearts… look the guy is doing a good job…2 wins
no interceptions
no stupid left handed throws or
fumbles in the red zone
But …..
you have to admit if it weren’t for the defense there is no way we would have 2 wins…
there have been a lot of 3 and outs
I cringe every time he goes back to pass, I know… I know no interceptions YET what about the pass just before the immaculate deflection.
I see everything that everyone is saying when they praise the guy but I just don’t have that gut feeling that he is the answer at QB long term. I hope I am proved wrong I really do but I totally agree with you about T. Brand I think the kid looks special of course I was really rooting for the Broncs to get Sanchez, anyway you have every right to your gut feelings and your safe to express them any time you want… Not one person here doubts your loyalty
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 21, 2009 7:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I posted above
but like you feel that Orton is a short term solution.
At least right now...
I guess I am on the fence, but it would be nice to see him be a little more electric but if that isn’t the game plan trust me I’ll take the wins, it’s just I guess I’d like to see that pure 55 yard in the air bomb to Marshall or that scramble out of the pocket and whisk a thirty yarder across his chest on his back foot to a wide open Royal for a TD stuff. Again I’ll take boring and a win any day of the week and twice on Sunday
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 21, 2009 7:11 PM MDT up reply actions
But with that...
You have to take the scramble out of the pocket and whisk a thirty yarder across his chest on his back foot to the DB at least as often, if not more often. There is a reason that type of a throw is considered a bad pass (more often than not, the result is better for the opposition).
by adamriggs on Sep 21, 2009 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
true enough...
but when you have a QB that makes something out of nothing it does make watching the offense fun, last year I held my breathe every time the defense took the field this year I feel the same about the offense.
Good News is have we got a defense that is fun to watch!!!!
Every defensive down I am lickin’ my chops. I have to admit though watching an offense that attacks down field is funner to watch, let’s face it a defense’s job is to get off the field asap an offense’s job is to stay on the field and entertain us with spectacular plays and if we’re lucky touchdowns. Three and out is boring…
Ok I must be honest I held my breathe through the whole game last year… every one!!!!
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 21, 2009 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions
OK...I like winning games more than having fun watching!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Sep 22, 2009 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe that's the problem,
I watch the Broncos to see them win, first and foremost, I have fun watching them win. I enjoyed the triple coverage passes that squeezed through last year, but I definitely didn’t enjoy the ones that were predictably picked off.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
he may not be long term...
and i think that you are right. ultimately they want brandstater in there… I think… My problem is more that our fans are just expecting the greatness of Elway in every QB. The thing is right now Orton is Improving every week. and yes our D is holding us together.(which is fantastic) I just think Orton is better than people are giving him credit for
I hope so and...
I see glimpses of it myself, let’s keep our collective fingers crossed and hope that the progression just keeps on goin’
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 21, 2009 7:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Brandstater
Your gut feeling and mine are simular. I haven’t been a fan of the Broncos as long as you. Only since ‘65 LOL But I’m probably older.
The thing I saw about Brandstater is that he has one of the smothest throwing motions I’ve seen in a long time. It seemed to me that he never had to use a lot of effort on any of his throws.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see him make a run for the starting position next year. I think he is going to be a good one.
I'd rather watch a TEAM play than a few stars.
by HighPlainsBronc on Sep 21, 2009 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions
hey Mike what is a franchise QB?
Someone who can only throw fastballs? Is Peyton a franchise QB? Eli? What about Chad Pennington? Was Bart Starr cause he couldn’t throw hard? I realize now that Jake Plummer was a franchise QB cause the team loved him and went the extra mile for him. The team wouldn’t run through whipped cream for our other QB last year.
Don’t get me wrong I love the bomb like the next guy. But I think if we can execute like we did in the 4th qtr yesterday we won’t be worrying about the bomb, we will be adding up our wins and what takes to clinch a playoff berth!
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 21, 2009 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Best redefinition ever
Jake Plummer was a franchise QB cause the team loved him
That flat-out nails it.
These talking heads keep using that friggin term “franchise quarterback…” as if the definition were set in stone: you get the sense that there is some magical prime number which, if exceeded by the formula:
[college aggregate QB rating]*[250# bench press reps] + ({longest throw}^IQ)/[#of games missed to injury] + (similarity to whomever one the last super bowl)/[# of years to first converence title game(requires prescience)) = franchise QB
And poof. Got yer “franchise QB” – one every four years or so, and since nobody knows, everybody can blather. But like the only stat that matters is wins, the only definition of franchise QB that is worth more than the hot air spewed at it is yours: the guy who the franchise grows around.
And right now, at this time in Denver’s history, with most of us fans still addicted to the idea that if a QB can just throw perfectly and spectacularly enought it is impossible to lose…well, that cult of monopositionopia needs a dose of Orton. The team needs Orton right now, so he is our franchise QB.
Oh, and good luck arguing otherwise with Josh McDaniels.
Sims is a good, gutsy player who got beat by Orton in camp. Brandstater is a smart, gifted, overlooked player who is in a great situation to avoid being a “bust” while learning from a truly special QB’s coach. If either of them play it will be due to injury to #8, and at that time we should root for them vigorously.
Until that time Orton is the man, and when it has counted (within reasonable limits of human fallability) he has given us NOTHING to doubt him about. I love the way he plays.
Replay the game, guys; those 5 or so passes thrown away were more Tom Brady than anything Cutler ever did. And we don’t even have the shame of having a too-pretty QB like Brady is.
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing" - Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Sep 22, 2009 2:14 AM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
5th rec
I have a big problem with fans that boo their own team at a home game. I also have an issue with fans going to a game and not understanding that THEY HAVE A JOB TO DO. They are the 12th man and it is their job to mess with the communication of the opposing team’s offense and to put enough electricity in the air as to totally take the air out of the opponent’s emotional sails.
We as fans have failed miserably in this task and our home record over the last few years shows it. Before we boo our team for not doing what we assume they are supposed to be doing, we dang sure better be doing what we are supposed to be doing.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Sep 21, 2009 6:23 PM MDT reply actions 12 recs
omg sanity!
I regret that I have only one rec to give you, Yosemite.
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Sep 22, 2009 2:21 AM MDT up reply actions
I was at the game
and I couldn’t agree more. It seems that two types of fans show up for games. The 12th man was definitely there because it got loud when the Browns had the ball (especially on 3rd down). A lot of those are the educated fan base that understands the game and what it takes to win. But then there are the casual fans that primarily show up to watch their fantasy players or see spectacular plays (win or lose, of course they’d prefer to win but they have other motivations that cloud their perspective). In my opinion that fan behavior is further fueled by the MSM’s point of view and is very influenced by their collective opinion. I think those fans are the ones that are booing (and unfortunately they make up a significant portion of the fan base). They also cheer when good things happen and make noise on third down. Unfortunately they want to have their cake and eat it too. When Orton missed a read or threw an incomplete pass I wasn’t happy but I definitely wouldn’t boo. What kind of message does that send your team?
by Dorado on Sep 22, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I do remember Jay getting booed
Look at last year’s Oakland and Buffalo games. But in all reality that is the nature of the business, unless you are Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, you will have some games you get booed. And I can remember some games where Elway got booed, we seem to gloss over some of that.
I don’t necessarily agree with your assessment of Orton, he struggled again for a lot of the game, our defense did a great job and bascially shut down Cleveland and allowed the offense to get production out of the running game.
I don’t necessarily believe that the home fans have to cheer everything, especially if the team is underperfroming. I guess you can sit quitely or leave, but when you spend up to $130 to $250 just to go see a game I can see someone wanting to air some frustrations. This isn’t college or high school, these guys are getting paid and in truth they should be perfroming to meet their contracts, if a fan feels that a player, team, or coach arem’t giving the effort or perfroming to their best abilities, then you have a right to voice your displeasure.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
maybe...
but if you are spending $130 to $250 wouldn’t you want to do something that will help your team instead of possibly making it worse.
Orton is not perfect and I know that, but he wins games. And he was winning when they booed him. Lucky he was strong enough not to let it phase him and he had a good 4th quarter and blew it open.
Are you saying....
that you actually believe there was a Bronco player on the field or coach on the sideline yesterday not giving it their best effort or performing to the best of their abilities? I guess I would actually have a problem with the second part of that question anyway because it’s not entirely fair. If Orton or anyone else were stinking it up Jamarcus Russell style, then maybe a boo would be in order. But while I agree Orton wasn’t exaclty “on” for the first 2/3 of the game, he wasn’t horrible and I didn’t see ANYthing that warranted booing. Especially when your team is winning! I suppose that’s the part that blew me away and showed who the boos were really coming from…..Jay Cutler fans. Elway and Cutler may have been booed, but I would almost guarantee that NONE of those boos came in a game while the team was winning.
I’m not a “never say never” kind of guy, so I agree there are times (usually only exceptional times as far as I’m concerned, but to each his own) when booing your team or a player is appropriate. But I saw nothing even close to warranting the chorus of boos I heard yesterday, especially so early in the game and while winning. So, given the offseason, and, to put it politely, our increasingly fickle, wine and cheese, somewhat misinformed fan base, I think the boos were ridiculous and ignorant. Of course, that’s just my opinion. But while we can’t live in the past, (I’ve been a die hard Broncos fan for 27 years, since I was 7 years old) I still don’t remember a crowd acting quite like that for the performance I saw on the field from Orton yesterday. And that does make me miss the 80’s and 90’s and the old Mile High crowds, but I digress.
In any case, while I agree with you that people have a right to express displeasure, I can’t agree with the way or the reason it was done yesterday and was embarrassed (maybe for the first time ever) to call those people fellow fans. All I can hope is that Orton continues to improve so this discussion is moot and yesterday’s boos don’t happen again, although I know that’s probably not realistic.
I do know the Broncos are 2 – 0, however, and I don’t see how ANY Bronco fan can boo that. So let’s beat the Raiders and try this again at home in 2 weeks.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 21, 2009 7:14 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, I would say I was not impressed with Brandon Marshall's effort
I wasn’t there, so I have a hard time knowing if they were booing Orton, the play calls, or something else. We may be making an unfair assumption that people are booing Orton, I am sure there were some, but I would guess there were some that were feeling a frustration of not seeing the potentially explosive offense that they were expecting after McDaniels was hired. Is that fair, I don’t know, but as a fan who not only buys a ticket, but also pays texes to finance the stadium, buys merchandise and all the other revenue that is spent on the team, I understand a feeling that fans may have for some expectations of the team.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Fair enough
Let’s just hope we keep winning making all of this moot. :-)
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 22, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Did Orton struggle any more than some of the receivers?
Or the offensive line? The running backs? All of them were out of sync at times yesterday but then they got it together in the 4th qtr and we all got a glimpse of what is coming WITH ORTON. You said Orton struggled but that is in direct contrast to Shannon Sharpe’s comment wondering why people were booing because he couldn’t see anyone open.
I doubt anyone booing has Shannon’s expertise about football. most are just carrying a grudge.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 21, 2009 8:02 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 21, 2009 8:06 PM MDT up reply actions
You can throw in
John Elway’s positive comments as well. Imho, the “fans” that are booing are Shananhan backers.
Again, I am not sure they were booing Orton or the play calling
While I wasn’t impressed with Orton, I felt they abandoned the running game too early and once they returned to running the ball, then the rest of the plays opened up, I had the same critism of last weeks play calls, in that the Broncos offense needed to establish an attitude that the defense carried, and that starts with running the ball.
I don’t see Orton as anything more as a stop gap measure anyways (IMO), I don’t begrudge him that. I hope he can play well enough and be a good ball control player, but I think McDaniels realizes he is not the long term solution.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
if most defenses are gearing to stop the run, what’s the point of trying to establish the run just for the sake of establishing the run? we’re not west-coast anymore, so i’m not surprised at the playcalling. i felt more comfortable with orton throwing the rock in the first half than i did with the running game, and thankfully they both performed much better in the second half.
Yeah. Who can be impressed
with no turnovers, 27 points (should have been 33 or more), and a win.
I mean, Orton isn’t Jay. And JC has the same initials as a noted Messiah.
Coincidence? Or is McDaniels to wind up hanging himself from a tree…?
Well, let's base all of our judgement of a player based on one game against a crappy team
By that standard you should of nominated Jay Cutler for the Hall of Fame last year based on his perfromance against the Raiders in week 1.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
23-12 is not one game.
But you’re right: Cutler put up 30 against the Browns last year. So clearly he’s a more dominating force.
I'll agree with your thoughts on the playcalling, esp. in the second half.
It seemed that every first down was a run, then, when it was stuffed because the D knew what was coming, we had to pass on second and third. I’d just like to see a little more variety, and hope that it is coming. It’s not like NE ran on every first down last year, so I believe that McD is playing everything close to the vest. He probably also figured that Cleveland was getting gassed and the more we tried to run, the more successful we would be as the game went on.
This is our team, let's have fun with it! - dmitchell624
Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.
Wait, you don't think Orton is any good, Broncoman?
I find that shocking. SHOCKING!
Just as I find it shocking that you feel that just because somebody has the right to boo they are in fact right to boo.
Maybe if Kyle gave himself the nickname “Redskin,” he could earn a reprieve from some of the people here…
Really, that what it has come to
The arguement was that it may be a little unfair to say everyone is booing Orton, maybe some were booing the play calling, maybe some were booing Brandon Marshall, I don’t propose to say all were booing the same thing. If you disagree with the booing fine, but what I was saying is I understand that there may be a shorter span of patience by the fans especially considering the performance of the first string offense through the preseason and the first game and a half of this game given the expectations raised by the hiring of McDaniels.
But way to add nothing to the conversation by bringing up something that has no bearing on the conversation, but again, why wouldn’t I be SHOCKED that you would go that route.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
It takes no effort to "understand" why some fans may boo.
But it does take conviction to say that, whether they have that right or not, they shouldn’t be doing it — and that when they do, they are being crappy fans.
And yes, I believe your multiculturalist approach to other issues predicts where you will land on this one. Not surprisingly, the flaw in that approach is easy to highlight. Hence the suggestion that Kyle maybe play his games wear a feather head dress.
people want orton to suck so they can feel better about themselves for thinking that he sucks
when you should really just care about how your team plays on sunday. and we are improving, and so far, winning. and that is something i can support 100%
go orton! go broncos! BEAT THE RAIDUHS
by lolcopter on Sep 21, 2009 7:20 PM MDT reply actions 5 recs
+1
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 21, 2009 7:50 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't agree with the first statement
My Ego can stand being wrong. I hope I’m wrong. (Oh yeah, I never said he sucks. He’s just not a long term solution)
The rest I agree with! I was shouting my support for KO & co all day! 100%
by Whidbey Bronco on Sep 21, 2009 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions
This is how you give Orton some love?
By talking about him being such a short term solution? Not much love there and certainly short term love. Every young quarterback on the bench is a superstar in the waiting. Mike you should know better than exalting Tom B. above where he belongs right now. He belongs on the bench as third string. He does have a Masters but it took him years even if he got it early. And it will take him years to master his craft as a quarterback – if he ever does. Orton is our quarterback, he does not deserve to be booed, on TV they cut to a large woman eating dipping dots by the pound who was yelling to yank him out. How appropriate. People who couldn’t see that receivers were supposed to cut off their routes because of a blitz and Orton was saving the sack and getting the ball out quick. Orton is …………………… wait for it, Orton – let’s see where he takes us, so far I love it!
by pastordan on Sep 21, 2009 7:52 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I like this
Tom B is a work in progress and your right all QBs on the bench are a superstar in waiting. I am Most impressed but ortons TEAMWORK. As far as a can see the team likes and respects him as a leader
lol
Yeah, I saw the shot of that lady. Not that it’s really that funny because I don’t think it’s a fair representation of our entire fan base, but it probably was a fair representation of the boo birds yesterday. lol Still, I have to chuckle at the visual (I chuckle now, I was appalled yesterday). But when they cut to that and now everyone watching that broadcast thinks that is how everyone reacts to Orton and/or our Broncos, well, that was when I was disappointed to call those people “fans”.
Oh well, moving on…. let’s beat the Raiders!
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 21, 2009 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions
She was funny!
A great representative for the boo-birds!
Missed it, sounds funny. I can't imagine EVER booing my team live!
There are idiots everywhere!
I can have my opinions and some of them are not positive. When I’m at a live game I SUPPORT MY TEAM!!
We went to the Denver Seattle game this year and were still screaming five minutes after the game was over!
Come on! We’re Broncos fans!!
by Whidbey Bronco on Sep 21, 2009 9:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh...
and +1 on the comments.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 21, 2009 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Although...
I will say I do like Tom B., but let’s discuss that next year. This year, this is Orton’s team. As you said, let’s see where he takes us.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 21, 2009 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions
100% in agreement pastordan
The booing is disgusting. The talk on this post about KO being a short term solution at this point in the season is ridiculous. As for the support of an unproven rookie, who hasn’t played a down in the NFL, is just incredible.
by rocko1 on Sep 21, 2009 8:06 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+5
Bottom line in anything…success. Why do some people criticize success? At the end of the day, isn’t that good enough??
by azbroncomaniac on Sep 21, 2009 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
She's a sheep
taking her cues from the smirking, wink-wink nudge-nudge we all know the Broncos suck media, both local and national.
Typical of the dumbing down of this entire culture — in sports, thanks largely to outfits like ESPN who market players at the expense of the integrity of team sports.
pastor shame on you...
I assume from your handle there you must be a man of the cloth so you should be a little more sensitive to those of us that are packing a few too many pounds. It was the “how appropriate” remark that really did it…
Ok now to football, Orton has been very journeyman in his approach so far, that could be for a lot of reasons…
1. Complicated system
2. Receiver/ QB communication problems
3. Bad reads
4. Defensive pressure
on and on
I say give Orton some love for doing his part and I mean PART in the wins… cuz bottom line is, from what he has shown so far in his career he won"t win you any games single-handedly but, and more importantly in this system, he won’t lose you any games either or maybe I should say too many. If his progression keeps going at this pace then by the end of the year the trade will look awesome and that’s if it was straight across Cutler for Orton but I have to be honest when I say IMHO Orton will always be Ortonairy, he will always be a game manager a field general which, don’t get me wrong, in the right system, could end up getting him a bust in Canton like another field general that didn’t have a cannon arm…Montana… Time will tell
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 21, 2009 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
OK...one last time, please!
Nobody wins games single-handedly in the NFL…ever. Some are more capable at certain aspects of the skill continuum, but in the history of the NFL, no one has ever won a game single-handedly!
"as in football so in life"
I agree and disagree...
On the one hand there is no doubt that it takes the whole team playing together to get the job done and get a team win… that is why I personally think it is ridiculous to compare Cutler’s win lose record with Ortons… You give Orton Denvers “D” over the last few years and give Cutler the Chicago “D” and special teams and I think you see a whole different story…
On the other hand there are some players that just give you a better shot at winning… Elway is a perfect example, he would hold on to the ball that extra second and find a receiver open or whip that pass across the grain for that crucial first down…I have a feeling if he could have stayed healthy one more year and TD did too a three peat would have been a lot more possible , at the very least his presence in the game made it possible for Denver to win more games than if he wasn’t in there!!! So while he didn’t single-handedly win those games they were wins none the less because he was in there… IMHO
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 22, 2009 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
I thought someone might take offense to those comments.
I can’t speak for pastordan or anyone else, but having seen the shot of the woman he was talking about and taking his comments in context, I don’t believe it was so much a knock on her being large (and for the record, she was), but it was that fact coupled with her disgusting display (she was screaming, mouth wide open, and practically spitting, slobbering and convulsing as she called for Orton to be pulled all while donned in Broncos gear….embarrassing). She personified the cliche, drunk, ignorant, trashy, obnoxious, loud-mouthed fan (which all fan bases have) that I think most of us can’t stand and are embarrassed to have showcased on television. That she was large may or may not have really mattered, but she was and it was part of the imagery of seeing her making a fool of herself (in my opinion) on television for all to see. If it had been some skinny, nerdy white boy with glasses and a bad haircut (and described as such), would anyone have taken offense? Probably not. But if that was the case, then it would’ve been an accurate description, just as this was.
I can see how the “how appropriate” comment might have been the part that bothered you (and others), but I guess my main point is, I don’t believe that any of it was meant to be all about her size as it was about the cliche, despicable type of fan I described above. Maybe I’m wrong and perhaps it was insensitive and I’m simply justifying and rationalizing it all, but I just didn’t feel the real intent was to insult her, or anyone else’s, weight. Even if it came off that way. Again, I obviously can’t speak for pastordan, or you, or anyone else, so I’ll just leave it up to pastordan and those who were offended to carry on the dialogue.
Let’s just hope the wins keep coming and the boos and calls for Orton’s head subside so these issues don’t arise again and we can focus on what’s really important: the on-field action.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 22, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions
totally get the point...
I was just givin’ him a hard time, I too wish that the media would have chosen a different individual or at least more individuals to represent what real bronco fans are feeling, I did see her even though I was pushing my 30 second button after every down, and like I said I totally get your point
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 22, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Good deal.
I just got on a bit of rant there. Nothing new, though. :-)
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 22, 2009 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
lol
"even a stopped clock is right twice a day" Yosemite Sam
by lovewatchinthegame on Sep 23, 2009 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree
I was so annoyed by the fans booing Orton. I can’t stand these fair weather fans. Your post says it just right.
Some people, even on here are reluctant to give McDaniels any props
as a QB’s coach, as a OC or as a head coach because he dared to tell the truth about taking a call about Cassell, he dared to tell the truth to Cutler that he would never say never about trading ANYONE if it helped the team. Because McDaniels picked Orton, Orton is the on field target for all those people. 2-0 means nothing to them because being right in their anger is more important than admitting we are building a team we can love and respect.
What do they end with? Emptiness, they can’t even watch and enjoy our growth.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 21, 2009 8:07 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
You bring up a good point
I really don’t believe this is about Kyle Orton. From my vantage point in Chicago, this is about the firing of Mike Shannahan. McD has been nothing short of spectacular. Just wait until the offense shifts into gear!
by rocko1 on Sep 21, 2009 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Sep 21, 2009 8:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Boos are ok, but yesterday they were done by ignorant (or biased) fans
I grew up attending Eagles games – and booing was a way of life; mostly at the officials and opponents, but also at Eagles coaches and players, when they performed consistently poorly over a period of time. I particularily remember chanting, with most of the crowd, the simple phrase “Goodbye Nick”, repeated continuously for several minutes near the end of a season to express our dislike for the Eagles head coach, who was fired at the end of that season. Not exactly booing, but if you were the head coach, that had to be tougher than the loudest booing could ever be.
I was at the game yesterday, watching from a central high location where I could see the plays developing. Orton made a few throws that were not close to any receiver, but there was a reason for almost all (perhaps all) of those wide throws. I would boo Orton if he was not consistently performing and not improving. But when the fans booed loudly on two consecutive plays (and wide throws by Orton), I commented to my friend: “I’m ok with those throws and I don’t think the fans booing have a clue what just happened”. On the first of those two throws (the one that landed about 20 yards away from L Jordan, who was open for a long gain and possible run for a touchdown after the catch), the reason was Orton thought Jordan would cut out to the sideline, where he would have been very open for an almost certain 1st down, but Jordan saw that he was open for a long gain if he continued downfield towards the corner of the endzone. Orton was under pressure and had to make a quick decison; he did not have time to wait and see which “read” Jordan would make. That pass looked terrible in terms of how close the pass was to the receiver, but that miscommunication is the fixable type of problem that is understandable as the players learn the complex type of offense coached by McD, where often receivers read the defense and pick a route. On that play, Jordan was open going downfield, but he would have been even more open if he had cut to the sideline, where Orton threw the ball. A bad looking play, but not a bad throw (and a very safe throw), just a miscommunication that should happen less often as Orton and the receivers gain more experience.
On most of the other “off the mark” throws, nobody was open and Orton made safe throws into open areas in the general direction of a receiver.
Perhaps BM is not playing as much because he has not learned to make good reads, and can not be trusted to run the proper routes. I saw some comments that BM is not giving full effort. While I did not watch him consistently enough to say those comments are wrong, I never noticed him not giving full effort. I watched him on one play where his good block helped free up a 10+ yard run. It was not a difficult block, but he got his man and not only kept the defender out of the play, but hindered pursuit of other inside defenders.
Let’s give Orton a chance. I thought he played very well, for an early season game, with a new scheme and players – and he was under quick pressure on many pass plays and did not make any costly mistakes. Let’s also give BM a chance, but BM needs to demonstrate to the coaches and Orton that he can be trusted to not just put forth hard effort, but also make correct reads and run precise routes.
One play to keep in mind
I think it was in the late 3rd quarter, but Orton clearly threw to a spot near the left sideline BEFORE Stokely turned his head. Pure designed play, route had to be run perfectly, etc. Resulted in a first down on 3rd and pretty long (3rd and 8 or so).
What was so exciting was this: that play is seen as masterful in somebody like Brady or Payton Manning – evidence of their maturity and the seamlessness of the offense….
That we are treated to it, and the drive it sustained, in the 2nd game of a top-to-botom regime change is extraordinary. There are more like that to come, and some of them will be for 30- 40+ yards.
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing" - Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Sep 22, 2009 2:30 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for bringing this up, PI
I’m still breaking down the third Q, but it was obvious earlier, too – Stokes is getting a lot of catches because his route running is incredibly precise and Orton can trust that he’ll be where he’s supposed to when he’s supposed to. It makes Orton’s job easier and it’s one of the keys to the short/mid passing game.
By the way, it also means that Orton has to put the ball precisely into an area of space that the receiver hasn’t reached and may not have even turned towards and must do so with a catchable ball. It’s not a small accomplishment to be able to do that consistently. If our receivers reduce the drops, the communication gets ironed out and the O line (Thank you, Chris Kuper) continues to be stout, I’m not convinced that we should go into ANY game assuming that we’ve outclassed. Given the improvement in a single week, can we reasonably assume that this club won’t continue to get better?
Tennessee loses to Houston, Pitt loses to the Bears on missed FGs and we can’t beat someone? I can’t make that argument any longer.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Doc Bear on Sep 22, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
Tennessee loses to Houston, Pitt loses to the Bears on missed FGs and we can’t beat someone? I can’t make that argument any longer.
You know what I really like this year, Bear? Nothing is an automatic write-off for me yet. The last few years I just cringed when we went up against the Chargers – heck I didn’t even bother to watch the final showdown in SD last year because I KNEW it would be a bad loss. This year? We may not have the flashiest game, but I am suddenly confident that our coaches know how to game-plan specifically to each opponent. That on any given Sunday, no matter who it is, we have a chance. KC at Arrowhead in December? No Problem! Chargers at SD? Doesn’t automatically scare me this year. Colts? Pats? Pitt? Why not? At least I feel like our coaches will have given it some thought, and if the orignal plan doesn’t work, will make the needed adjustments at halftime.
by Colorado_Kitten on Sep 22, 2009 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd Kitten, and I agree...
I look at our WHOLE schedule and cant see whay we cant win these games. We will be in every one….and thats a great feeling!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I'm with you, CK
TedB was the first to really bang the gong on this, but every year brings huge swings in the NFL. If big Ben R gets injured, is Pitt the same team? McNabb has already been hurt once – if he’s out, Or a few other top players, can we win in Philly? Of course. There are teams that tend to stay dominant,and certainly Pitt, NE and Philly have been among them, but the tides always change and there will here as well.
The other point is similar – WE have changed. Gone are the revolving door at DC, the second class citizenry that was the defense and the after-thought special teams play, in which the coaches computer models got more attention than the play of his teams. Gone is the head-scratching offensive play-calling. Orton is showing many signs of being a very good QB – I have no interest in this obsession with whether he is or isn’t a ‘franchise’ QB and what that supposedly means. He now has weapons, and O line and is learning a very effective system, taught by one of the best offensive coordinators and QB coaches in the league in Josh McDaniels. He’s improved by leaps and bounds and there’s just no rational reason to believe that this won’t continue.
McD has also put together a top-flight group of coaches and the players he’s brought on – FA and draft – have already exceeded many folks expectations. If someone can realistically say that we have no chance of continuing to improve, I’ll politely disagree. It’s a silly thought. They are growing and developing as we watch. We’ll probably have losses, some games that we should win but don’t and a few that we ’shouldn’t’ and do, like most teams. But in the NFL, you usually make your own luck and this year is no exception. We look darned good and we should be able to play with anyone this season. More power to them!
I’ve taken some flack for the fact that I’ve always thought that McD was doing a good job, but as we are watching the games unfold – over the past three, I think that we’ve just lived up to the pattern that McD set in putting the team together, training it and putting the product on the field. I had thought that it might take a little longer, but I’m glad to be wrong about that. We already look good, and we’re just going to look better.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Being the world's best offensive or defensive coordinator
doesn’t guarantee that the individual will be even an adequate head coach, but the signs are proliferating that Bowlen has picked a winner. The surprising decisions McDaniels has made over the past few months have left me with the choice of assuming he’s unexpectedly incompetent or even better than I expected. Guess what? Not only has he (or he and Xanders) shown deep insight into which players will actually fit the bromide (smart, tough, etc.) coaches offer, I’m beginning to develop a sense of and respect for the way he coaches on game day. It’s a conservative ratchet effect. Keep accumulating small advantages. Give none back. It leads to a pedestrian completion percentage while the kinks are being ironed out, and an initially low YPC for the backs, but the positive turnover differential speaks for itself and the efficiencies will come. McDaniels is a smart guy and a coach’s son, and has been absorbing the intangibles of being a head coach all his life. Like you, I think it’s only gonna get better.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Sep 22, 2009 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Keep accumulating small advantages. Give none back.
There it is, Spock. I’ll take it!
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Sep 23, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions
That's a succinct explanation, Bear,
for why Stokley has excelled early in this system. It also explains why Marshall has been a part-time receiver. It’s not that he’s dogging it but that he hasn’t mastered the offense and his role in it. McDaniels is probably using him selectively in situations (and play calls) in which he can contribute. If Marshall buckles down and learns to do it McDaniels’ way I’m sure his role will expand.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Sep 22, 2009 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Big +1
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 22, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Quick Point on the earlier intelligence comment.
It doesn’t matter if your the smartest person in the world, in today’s society you only need to be smart ENOUGH. Main point, today’s society is more about opportunity then it is about self-made prophecy. If you don’t believe me we can argue about this all day. :)
Any movement in history which attempts to perpetuate itself, becomes reactionary.
- Marshal Broz Tito
Watch KO's post game presser
He told us about those passes, that there were some they are going to have to start making to be competitive, that they aren’t there yet, that there were some communication issues. This is a new O and a new QB and it’s going to take a little time to come together. And it IS coming together.
Imagine if we hadn’t missed those two FGs and had had TDs instead. Because we could have, had we been a little more experienced with our own system. That would have added another 14 points, giving us FORTY-ONE. Sure, it was the Browns. But in your heart of hearts did you imagine even being on the doorstep of that kind of scoring in week two?
The offense will be FINE. KO is not Cutler and is not Elway. But he is making smart decisions and he is making them early.
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
You mean....
Orton simply said “there communication issues” and didn’t throw his receivers under the bus? Hmmm, what a novel way for one of the leaders of our team to handle that. ;-)
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 22, 2009 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions
To be fair...
Bottom line, when we make the playoffs and win a game or two post-season, some of the tired old quarterback-mania will subside, and a slow re-education of Broncos fans will be firmly in motion.
To be fair, to be an average Broncos fan for the last 2 years has been to commit yourself to the idea that, because Shanahan finally had “his guy”, we were on the cusp of 6 superbowls in a row…but that kind of thinking is like crack cocaine, it takes a while to shake it out of your head.
Let’s be considerate of recovering CultofQBaholics who take a little longer to kick the habit.
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing" - Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Sep 22, 2009 2:32 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Very good points.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 22, 2009 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks
I really think it is a philosophical position/quasi-religion thing: we BELIEVED for a long time in the old regime’s stories.
It will take a lot of evidence to convert the folks currently booing. Looks to me like the evidence (wins) will mount from here on out…and when we blink in December and find ourselves magically competing for real prizes, the current boo-birds will have to be introspective, and many will emerge more solid, dedicated fans for it.
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing" - Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Sep 22, 2009 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed....
and very well stated. Still don’t approve of the reasons for or quickness of the boo-birds coming out on Sunday, but I completely agree that as the wins pile up the boos will subside, the old crack habit will be kicked, old-quarterback lust will fade and the “re-education” will begin. Now the Broncos just have to do their part in this scenario and make those wins happen; I, for one, believe they will.
"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)
by RockyMtnHigh on Sep 22, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Booing is only acceptable to my mind if a team or a player is not trying hard...
…then by all means get on their back.
But to my mind so long as a player is trying hard (and I saw no evidence of any players including KO not trying hard on Sunday) then no matter how untalented the player then it’s the job of the fans to give him support.
KO is doing his job to the best of his ability. I’m saddened by hearing the boos, because it’s a sign of disrepect to someone.
Maybe KO is just a journeyman. But behind a great OL, with the support of good backs and receivers and with a strong defence he could win a Superbowl. Just ask Trent Dilfer or Doug Williams.
Glad to hear that most of the MHR faithful who were at the game are not joining in this silly booing nonsense.
Very much the exceptions, not the rules
Maybe KO is just a journeyman. But behind a great OL, with the support of good backs and receivers and with a strong defence he could win a Superbowl. Just ask Trent Dilfer or Doug Williams.
And just for arguments’ sake, Williams was a far better pure passer than Dilfer. But what did both of these SB winning QBs have in common? They were not long-term solutions. They were place-holders in the right place at the right time. It didn’t make them great QBs (although Williams had flashes).
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
And for the umpteenth time
Collegiate success means almost nothing in the NFL, as the litany of highly-ranked busts attests to.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
Yeah, but the reason those QBs bust is not because of their ability to throw (or not throw) the ball.
They bust because they aren’t able to adjust to the complexity and speed of the game. They can’t read defenses, etc.
Being able to throw the ball just does not go away. If Orton was a pure passer in college, he still is today. The question then becomes, is he smart enough to grasp the intricacies of his offensive scheme and the opponent’s defensive scheme. To my eyes, and through his W/L record in the pros, I think he is very capable.
What does Professional success mean in the NFL?
Orton has experienced both (Collegiate & Professional).
People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.
by c_style on Sep 22, 2009 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
lovewatchingthegame
My intent was not to offend, sorry if I did. But, I was pointing out her lack of football ecumin and I stick with it, the food was brought up for focus, it was not really on the game. No shame received. Just because someone is a pastor and I am, does not make speaking the blunt truth acceptable. She was a lousy fan that day and TV gave us a view of the booing fan and her mentality. Watch those dipping dots.
Ha
Body weight may not be a very good indicator of intelligence, but in Belloring Bertha’s case, lbs. & and booing a throw away are all we’ve got. Neither makes a strong case for her IQ.
Somebody send that lady a copy of P90X.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
If you do not support Orton by now you are:
A: a moron that doesn’t know much about football
B: a Bears fan (one of cutlers butt buddies)
C: a fan that only watches espn and nfl network and believes everything they say is fact
D: a moron that doesn’t know much about football
E: NOT A BRONCOS FAN
I'm not sure I will ever feel bad
for the Colts or Pats for any reason. Other than that, good post.
by Streams Of Whiskey on Sep 22, 2009 10:14 AM MDT reply actions
Roger on that
If they wanted our sympathy they would have lost to the Broncos for the last 5 years.
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing" - Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Sep 22, 2009 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions
Awesome insight bro!
I know there are more thoughts lurking in that head of yours…
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