The Dude Abides...The Stats That Don't Lie, Week 2
In God we trust. All others must bring data.
—Robert W. Hayden
After the crazy Indy and Miami game, I'm out a little faster with the stats for week 2. Thanks to everyone for reading these. For those that want to review the rational for why I keep track of these four stats, check out the Introduction (not perfect, but useful). In short, there is a very high correlation between winning the battle of turnovers, time of possession, third down efficiency, and field possession. By far, the most important battle is turnovers, followed by field position.
Before we get to the number, a few quick notes on the games. First, regarding the Denver game, they won all four categories, and you saw the result. If they continue down this path, they will win a lot of games this year. The strangest game was actually the last one played, Indianapolis vs. Miami, in which Miami dominated time of possession by a 3 to 1 margin but still lost. It's important to note that games like this are extremely rare, so don't let it fool you. Lastly, it wouldn't be one of my posts without a shot at the Raiders. Their game was proof that even the Hutt can win when you give him better field position and no turnovers.
Quick Summary:
- The team that won the turnover battle won 15 of the 16 games played (94%)
- The team that won the time of possession battle won 9 of the 16 games played (56%)
- The team that won the 3rd down battle won 6 of the 16 games played (38%)..don't expect this to remain each week.
- The team that won the field position battle won 13 of the 16 games played (81%).
- There were 2 games this week in which a team won all 4 categories. Both teams also won the game (Denver was one of the two).
- The winning teams this week averaged .81 turnovers, 29:36 in time of possession, 39% on 3rd down efficiency, and their average field position was the 31.97 yard line.
- Top Five in Turnovers: 7 teams tied with zero turnovers
- Top five in Time of Possession: 1.Miami 2.KC 3.Was 4. NYG 5. SF
- Top five in 3rd Down Efficiency: 1.Mia 2.Car 3.Cin 4.Dal 5. DEN!
- Top five in Field Position: 1.Min 2.Bal 3.Cin 4.NO 5.TB/Atl
- Of the 32 games that have been played in the NFL this season, 85% of the games were won by the team with less turnovers, 66% with a better time of possession, 59% with a better 3rd down percentage, and finally, 78% with better field position.
I've included a very brief comment on each game, since I did not have to write a long introduction for this week, although I wouldn't exactly call them insightful (I mean I'm not John Clayton or Woody Paige, for god's sake) Look forward to your comments.
Score TOs TOP Third Down Field Pos Comment
CAR 20 2 28:31 58.33% 21.70 Atl takes advantage of better field position.
ATL 28 2 31:04 50.00% 33.22
MIN 27 1 27:05 27.27% 44.00 Min wins field position and turnovers. Done.
DET 13 3 30:20 38.46% 25.73
CIN 31 2 33:53 14% 37.18 Cin had a short field all day and kept the ball away from GB.
GB 24 1 25:22 41.67% 27.25
ARZ 31 2 29:08 22.22% 32.27 Turnovers and Field Position correlate highest to winning.
JAX 17 3 28:27 37.50% 28.42
OAK 13 0 20:35 23.08% 30.45 Even the Hutt can win with a TO and Field Pos. Advantage.
KC 10 2 38:53 33.33% 23.91
NE 9 1 31:03 33.33% 28.64 Close game in most categories except field position.
NYJ 16 1 27:55 27.27% 32.50
NO 48 1 30:26 46.15% 37.17 Give Brees Field Position and you are dead.
PHI 22 4 29:34 43.75% 23.62
HOU 34 0 34:03 31.25% 32.46 Surprised it was so close actually looking at these numbers.
TEN 31 2 25:57 45.45% 23.85
STL 7 1 25:07 50.00% 24.13 Was bested the Rams in 3 of the 4.
WAS 9 0 34:53 46.67% 28.88
SEA 10 1 25:29 28.57% 26.08 Singletary controls clock and takes care of the football.
SF 23 0 34:31 33.33% 21.83
TB 20 2 30:27 25.00% 33.23 Pretty even game except on 3rd downs.
BUF 33 2 29:33 33.33% 31.50
PIT 14 2 30:26 50.00% 23.56 Cutler wins when he doesn't turn it over (when!)
CHI 17 0 29:34 50.00% 27.00
CLE 6 3 27:17 21.43% 27.42 Win all 4, win the game.
DEN 27 1 32:43 53.33% 28.91
BAL 31 1 28:41 36.36% 38.25 Turnovers & Field Position.
SD 26 2 31:19 43.75% 27.73
NYG33 0 34:49 40.00% 32.58 Giants up to their old clock management tricks.
DAL31 4 25:11 54.55% 24.17
IND27 0 14:53 42.86% 23.38 Can someone explain this to me???????
MIA23 1 45:07 71.43% 23.75
If Orton takes care of the ball again in Week 3, and the Broncos can force the Hutt to drive long fields, they should be in good shape.
Thanks again. As always if someone wants the week to week spread of these number,just let me know.
Go Broncos!!!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Does anybody care that Cutlers' on a 40 interception/season rate? Nah....
He won single handed…yea!!! Oh, Well done lebowski, rec’d. I just can’t get over my love for the beloved…oh! Never mind…
Give Cutler credit. He can and does win games single-handedly.
…And he throws beautiful passes, no matter who catches them.
Remarkable Velveeta !!
That is perhaps the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever seen posted here. NOBODY wins games single-handedly in the NFL ever, ever, ever. Not Manning, not Brady and certainly not JC. It’s still a team game.
"as in football so in life"
But his
second comment was priceless
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Sep 22, 2009 8:30 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
The interesting thing that stood out for me on the Bears game
Is that their offensive scheme is not so much different from when they had Orton, slightly more creative, but certainly not the “machine” that Chicago and the MSM would have had you believe. Essentially, they are still a run first/play good defense team as they’ve been for the last 10 years.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
good thing they gave up those two firsts and a third
gotta sacrifice to make big changes on O like that, eh?
by Colorado_Kitten on Sep 22, 2009 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions
awesome stuff
really appreciate this week to week……kind of the guts of which teams are actually playing well…….ignoring score…I like it
If you could I would appreciate it if you added a link above or below the stats to the 1st WK, 2nd WK, etc…..that way I could quickly reference other weeks to see how consistent teams are……you may wanna look at doing something where you give info on the avg spread over all 4x categories for a 3wk span or something….dunno, but I love this info…..thx!!
Bideshi
Done…give me a few days and it’s yours.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Great post, lebowski
It really ties the room together.
I’m most impressed with our improvement at 3rd down conversions. I’m starting to get a feel for what this McDaniels ‘super-efficient’ offense is going to feel like. They won’t be really flashy week to week, but when you look at the stats, they’ll have dominated without anyone noticing. Great stuff. Me like.
As for the teams that win with bad showings in these stats (like Indy), there are some other strange things afoot. I’d have to look at the play by play of that one. I didn’t get to see it.
Oh, and the reason the Texans/Titans was so close is Chris Johnson. Huge runs for scores do nothing for your TOP or your 3rd down % and they don’t care about field position, but they do affect the one stat that matters most. Score. Dude had a 57 yard run, a 69 yard catch, and a 91 yard run for scores. And with his speed, they all must have taken a collective 3 seconds off the clock. :) I’d say that’s your one chance to win with bad scores in these stats — if you have a quick-strike offense that is hitting, you can beat anyone.
It's called YAC...Indy had nothing but YAC yards...
And that caused Miami to Yac all over themselves!
by BroncoSense72 on Sep 22, 2009 5:26 AM MDT up reply actions
Ahhhh, BB
Makes total sense. The Indy game too.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Good work dude
I wonder how many times the Raiders win the field position battle. They have the best punter (lechler) in the world and he just flips the field for them so many times after their offence goes three and out. I bet he raiders win the field position battle in a lot of games they lose.
lakebuff
give me a little big of time, I can pull all of the raider stuff from last year to help answer the lechler comment. I have the stats in my spread from all of their games last year. I’ll add the first 2 games from this year and have a good answer for you soon.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Lakebuff
Back with some answers.
The Raiders have won the field position battle in 10 out of their last 18 games.
They have won 5 of those 10 games. So you are exactly right.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Ind v Mia
I only saw parts of the game but after looking at your post and thinking about it,
It seems that Mia managed the clock beautifully. They played Dink and Dunk football with a Run First game plan. Both teams had similar Starting position…off by not even a yard so I wouldn’t even count that stat. They had less TOP and therefore less overall plays….and therefore a worse 3rd down Conversion Pct. because we all know small numbers equal high percentage variation in small change. So….the story goes like this
Ind gets the ball…..marches down the field in a couple minutes……they are either stopped for a FG or get the TD, but always quickly.
Mia get the ball in the same spot but with vastly inferior chain moving. (not saying they are bad….just that it was slower. So therefore they ran down the clock, and decimated the TOP category……but to their dismay Payton and his team could simply get to the endzone quicker….more efficiently…..
The real kicker here is the Turnover battle. Because Ind is the better offense overall….and Mia is winding the clock down….this game would have been a 2 TD if not for Ind’s ONE SINGLE turnover. The math really does work out if you think about it like this…
Ind = quick….efficient….calculated…..1 TO
Mia= Slow….deliberate…..acurate……0 TO
In fact its hard to imagine Ind made a TO in any case given the overall strength differences of the two teams.
But this is just my take and I’ve never been the best at explaining my thoughts……
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Actually, the turnover was by the Dolphins, but it shouldn't be counted anyway
since that turnover was on the final play of the game, a hail mary. Watching it, I think it’s easy to understand. When Indy’s offense got on the field, they scored in less than 3 minutes. It took Miami 10 minutes to score. I bet each team had only 8-9 possessions for the entire game (if not less since Miami took up almost the whole third quarter with essentially one drive).
LOL OOPS
ok I misunderstood….like I Said I only saw parts of the game……
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Miami's time management in the final 3-4 minutes while they were behind was absolutely terrible though...
Still running the ball, slow to the LOS should have given themselves another few plays with the amount of time they had at the beginning of that possession.
i thought it worked out pretty ok...
.. i mean..ginn dropped a TD too… they probably could’ve gotten a couple of more plays before the 2 minute warning but i mean if you know manning can score in 30 seconds you’re kind of in a bind not to score too fast yourself..hard to say
in terms of Time Management
I merely meant they were great at keeping the ball for a long period of time. not necessarily timing things to work out perfectly….which they could have done much better.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Ind vs Mia
I watched most of that and was astounded by how poorly Miami played defense. Their offense and special teams were rock-solid with an offensive game plan being executed to PERFECTION.
Say all you want about Peyton…he is a supremely talented quarterback. The Miami defense was a huge let down. They are the reason Miami lost the game. Everyone including the sportscasters were talking after words about how astounding it is to dominate TOP and lose the game and blamed it on no big play ability from Miami. EPIC FAIL. The defense choked plain and simple. I know Manning is dangerous, but if you get pressure on him he is just as dangerous as Tom Brady was vs the Jets this week.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
Turnovers are a little deceiving
In general turnovers kill you, but occasionally it’s deceiving. There were some last year thrown by Cutler that would deceive the stats because they were long bombs that were picked off on a 3rd down. They were as long as punts so it really didn’t make much difference if they were dropped or intercepted; the result would have been near the same, change of possession at about that same spot. A single interception on a hail mary pass on the final play doesn’t really count either…those are picked off more often than caught. Also, interceptions when the result is a foregone conclusion (down three scores with 2 minutes to go) are more a function of a desperate team than the reason for the loss. That last interception by Denver didn’t make any difference in the eventual outcome.
And then Cutler
last year would drive the Broncos to the brink of a win, and dash our hopes with a terrible, terrible INT. He did the same thing in the pro bowl game.
Not all change is good, just as not all movement is forward.
Trog,
I agree, those are the ones that really hurt and why I’m so happy with the zero interceptions of Orton to this point. Wish there were stats that included the turnovers that were major killers (biggest is a pick six returned when you are in the red zone), moderate killers (took points off the board for you) , not too bad (opponent did not score as a result…went 3 and out), and irrelevant (last play of the game wasn’t going to get caught anyway).
If you combine the two key stats (TO field position)
It reflects whether the TO was a long punt or a bad TO. If it was a bad TO, then you’ll generally often lose the field position battle as well. Whereas if you do a long punt interception then the field position will show this.
by BroncoFanInLakewood on Sep 22, 2009 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Good point
I wondered about that though. Cleveland got the ball near our 20 after that fumble, but their overall field position was worse than ours. It seems hard to believe that it wouldn’t average out to like the 30 unless the rest of the starts were inside the 20.
Maybe that’s how it works out. If starting at your opponents 20 is the same as starting at the 80, then in ten possessions with one starting at the 80 and the other nine starting at the twenty, you get an average of 27 (similar to the Browns). But if you get two returns to the opponents 20 (your 80) and eight returns to the 15 yard line…you would get an average of 28 yard line to start. These stats seem a little deceptive and don’t quite tell the tale.
NDB
You are correct, this is why field position is fluid, as the boys at football outsiders have pointed out. This is why I also keep track of a stat that I call average starting field position/per scoring drive.
One doesn’t have to get bogged down in the details of every drive to know that the correlation between winning and your average starting field position is very very high and that one ought to spend a lot of time focused on it. Field Position is the most underrated stat in all of football. For every yard you increase your starting field position, you statistically increase your chance of scoring. This is true if you start at the 21 from the 20 or 30.5 from the 30.
Your overall point is valid, however. What I am trying to do with a casual fan base is: 1) Get to them use stats for more than just QB rating, 2) Show which stats have the highest correlation to winning football games.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Dumbfounded
IND27 0 14:53 42.86% 23.38 Can someone explain this to me???
MIA23 1 45:07 71.43% 23.75
You should offer a reward to anyone who can write a convincing description, even if it’s absurd.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
Peyton Manning and
the poor defense Miami put up late……..but I’m not sure many QBs/offense combinations could have pulled it off even wtih the Miami apparent choke-job.
In other words...
It took an elite QB to overcome the deficiencies of the rest of the team. Got it! Oops, too bad for us. We better never find ourselves in that situation!
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
If you are trying to imply that we traded away a certain QB who qualifies under your statement, then I’m just going to have to disagree with you. I watch Jay piss away too many passes with the game on the line to believe that he was that kind of player. He might yet develop into that, but he ain’t there yet.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
by Darin H on Sep 22, 2009 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh, but he IS a game winning QB
those games that he doesn’t win for his team . . .
he helps the other team win by completing passes to them. ;-p
jk
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 22, 2009 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions
one of the announcers commented
that Indianapolis was using long, fast strikes to score whereas Miami was methodically marching down the field.
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 22, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Big play offenses rarely look good in TOP, 3rd down eff, and Field Pos. stats
Indy showed the perfect storm last night for turning The Dude’s rules on their head. When you can go 80 yards in 32 seconds, as the Colts did to win the game last night, none of those stats tell the story of what happened. Teams like this with big play receivers, but no running game, either gain big chunks of yards and score quickly or go 3 and out. So they use no time off the clock, and if they punt they punt from their own 25 yard line, giving the other team a start at about their own 25.
The Colts took over with almost 5 minutes left to score the winning drive. This seems like a classic time to burn clock. Yet Manning running the no huddle called the snap with between 18-19 seconds left on the play clock. He was more concerned with reading the D and then surprising them with an audible than burning clock.
But a team like Denver, without a deep threat QB, needs to abide by the dude’s rules. And if you can’t generate points, you at least get to the 50 yard line or so on every drive, burn about 5 minutes off the clock by converting a couple third and shorts, and pin the other team deep with a well placed punt. Classic ball control. Boring but effective.
I would hope we won't get burned like that.
According to what McD has said (and what has been written here), we seem to be mainly playing to prevent the big plays and try to wait the opponent out to make mistakes. I would hope that we would have prevented last nights beat down by keeping those manageable. Two of the touchdowns were 4 yard plays converted to big ones by effective blocking and bad tackling. The Patriots have had a fair amount of success against Indy, so hopefully our D now will.
It’s kind of funny to hear people, like those Raider guys that posted earlier talking about last years stats (ie Russell was 15 of 18 with 225 yards last year against us) as though that has anything to do with this years team. Those previous blowouts by SD and Indy have no relevance to todays team. Until we have a definite defensive identity against powerhouse offenses, we can only speculate how well we might or might not do.
I can explain the Indy-Miami phenomenon.
Miami’s defense sucks because Denver has 3 of their best defensive players from a year ago!
by chopperpilot on Sep 22, 2009 3:17 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
hahaha nice. Rec.
Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away
by Troy Hufford on Sep 22, 2009 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for sharing your hard work Dude
Even if you were slacking it with a spreadsheet. :-)
Your correlations are proving your theory correct.
Rec’d
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing." -- George Bernard Shaw
Breaking jaws or the NFL in Oakland who cares? Fall on your pirate’s sword - Ponderosa
lebowski I love these stat reports...
I don’t know how you find the time…
but thanks for taking the time…
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
by Mike Clark on Sep 22, 2009 6:24 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
You want a toe? I can get you a toe? I can get you a toe by 3 pm.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
You may want to think about
including offensive penalty yards as another indicator. I know I’ve posted this elsewhere before, but you can get 60%+ prediction rates of who wins using offensive penalty yards alone. I figure since the large majority of offensive penalty yards come from mistakes the O-Line makes, holding, false start, which are drive killers, its a good indicator of how disciplined the line is. If the line isn’t disciplined, I don’t think you’ll have many good offensive drives, no good drives, you have low scoring games, and your chances of winning are less. Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there.
thanks, I will take a look. I think I have them from week 1
will try
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.

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