Horse Tracks 9/23/09 - Happy Birthday, Marcus Thomas!!

by Douglas A. Lee on Sep 23, 2009 5:47 AM MDT in Horse Tracks Comment 105 comments

DPP - Change in Broncos' defense instills a brash attitude - Jim Armstrong
Armstrong looks at the overhaul of the defense's lineup, attitude and culture.

DB - An Active Afterschool Smile - Chris Gentilviso
Five second-year Broncos appeared at a local Boys & Girls Club Tuesday.

DB - Players Promote Activity for Youth with Dodgeball - Broncos TV

LTC - Reliably average Orton satisfies Broncos - Brian Howell

LTC - Field Guide: Veteran Davis emerging as mentor to Denver’s defense - Brian Howell

CSG - Broncos Moreno will be main man soon - Frank Schwab

PFW - Week Three matchup tidbits (fixed, with Denver game)

DPP - Sharpe: Give Broncos time - Jeff Legwold
Shannon thinks it will take Josh McDaniels another year to mold the Broncos roster in his image and for the team to take the next step up.

DP - Broncos tackles get big test this week - Jeff Legwold

DPP - Spotlight on Ryan Clady - Lindsay Jones

DPP - This year's Broncos edition mirrors last season's model - Jeff Legwold
On offense, lots of yards and not a lot of points. Of course, it's different when you don't give up points in buckets...

DPP - Q&A: Shanahan wasn't going to cut Marshall - Jeff Legwold
Legwold says some folks (hi, Mort) at the big places (hello, ESPN) rush rumors onto the air. He thinks Shanny would have probably made BMarsh play out the season before giving him a new contract. We'll never know...

KDVR - Tanaka's Take: NFL Week 2 Rant
Tanaka sees a bit of Joe Gibbs in Josh McDaniels.

Y! - Grimm, Haley deserve HOF entry - Jason Cole
No mention of Floyd Little, but Cole thinks Shannon Sharpe should be in the HOF and Terrell Davis deserves to be a finalist, and maybe a HOFer.

Scout - Broncos Work Out OT Chris Patrick

AFC West News

OT - Poole: Struggling Russell at crossroads

SDUT - Chargers sign Boone to bolster D-line - Kevin Acee

SDUT - Scouting the Dolphins

KCS - Chiefs’ Cassel can’t count on starting if he doesn’t produce - Kent Babb

KCS - Haley shows some courage - Jason Whitlock

NFL News

NFL - Bucs' ailing secondary loses safety Phillips for season

NFL - Former Giant Burress gets two years in gun case

NFL - Steelers safety Carter slowed by bruised thigh, but should play

NFL - Patriots acquire Burgess from Ravens for seventh-round draft pick

NFL Opinion

SI - Take A Breath Tuesday: Why it's smart to reserve judgment in NFL - Don Banks

FOX - On the Mark: Pats' time has passed - Mark Kriegel
I wonder when/if they'll start blaming the departure of Josh McDaniels...

Y! - Lewis not focused on Jets' Ryan, past - Mike Silver
Silver wonders what happened to Brandon Marshall.

NFP - Tavern talk: Watching the game clock - Mike Lombardi

NFP - DMN: Vikings need more from Favre - Mike Lombardi

SI - MMQB Mailbag: One play call hurt Dolphins' near-perfect strategy - Peter King

ESPN - NFL Power Rankings Week 3
Broncos rise from 24 to 20

CBS - Power Rankings: Could it be an East Rutherford Super Bowl? - Pete Prisco
Denver rises one spot to #16

NFP - Are the sharks circling Crabtree? - Jack Bechta

Y! - Journeymen, misfits try to find their way in UFL - Jason Cole

NFP - Scout’s notebook: defensive review - Wes Bunting

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Comments

Next time

you don’t have an idea for a header, you should just give a random shout-out to a random MHR member.

I think it’d be fun, as long as it’s not me =D

I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.

by SlamDunkTheFunk on Sep 23, 2009 5:52 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Like, “McGeorge’s Tracks.”

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing." -- George Bernard Shaw
Breaking jaws or the NFL in Oakland who cares? Fall on your pirate’s sword - Ponderosa

by KaptainKirk on Sep 23, 2009 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know I love me some horse tracks. But my B-days not till June.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

What a stupid opening paragraph from Armstron

If there is one word to describe the Broncos’ offseason, it is change. Not just any kind of change. We’re talking dramatic change, fundamental change, earthshaking change. And that was before Josh McDaniels decided that the nation’s 18th-largest media market didn’t provide enough breathing room for him to coexist with Jay Cutler.

The McDaniels-Cutler split had nothing to do with breathing room, or the size of the media market, moron. Haven’t we been all through this? McDaniels judged Cutler not to be a winning player, and got a lot of value in return for him. That’s it.

Thanks for Horse Tracks, as always, Doug.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Sep 23, 2009 6:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

What has always worried me was McDaniel’s interest in Cassel.

IMO, his admiration of Cassel was not based in good football sense, but in an emotional connection he felt for a QB Josh raised up to be a “decent” off the bench starter in 2008. In chasing Cassel, McDaniels was following his heart and not his head. The gap between Cutler and Cassel is vast and it’s downright insane when you consider Cutler’s minimal salary for the next three seasons vs Cassel’s franchise tag number.

Seeing Cassel in struggle mightily in preseason and week 2, it is painfully apparent that he is a LONG LONG way from being a franchise QB worth $63MM. I think you’ll see this continue to play out all year and ultimately, there will be serious buyer’s remorse coming from KC.

McDaniels got about 80 cents on the dollar for Cutler, which is really good when Denver was forced to make a deal. But his infatuation with Cassel was disturbing, misguided and foolish.

It’s two weeks into the new season. Cutler, Orton and Cassel all laid stinkers to varying degrees in their first outing. Cutler and Orton were much improved in game #2. By the end of 2009, I predict Cutler and Orton will be far more successful than Cassel (both individually and as team). I can’t express how relieved I am knowing Cassel is being paid franchise QB dollars in KC and not Denver.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

Cassel

I never saw any infatuation. Even if I was to believe that he initiated talks, which I don’t, from all indications nothing went anywhere. This wasn’t some deal that had been nailed out only to have KC pull the rug out from under Denver at the last second.

There was discussion and nothing became of it. I have discussions with my brokers about possible trades I don’t make all the time. I am in no way infatuated with those stocks.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 8:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kfustud wrote, "This wasn’t some deal that had been nailed out only to have KC pull the rug out from under Denver at the last second."

It was the opposite. KC and NE had nailed out a deal the night before (the Vrabel trade had already been announced) and Denver/Tampa swooped in on Saturday to express an interest is getting Cassel to Denver and Cutler to Tampa. McDaniels said, “we were too late to that dance”. And thank goodness for that.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if more pieces were involved than Cutler, Cassel and 1st round pick. I heard the deal was Cutler to Tampa, Denver’s #1 to NE and Cassel and Tampa #1 to Denver.

Does this trade proposal make any sense? NO, not even a little bit (esp for Denver). So I clearly don’t believe the MSM’s reporting on this deal. But I do believe McDaniels when he said he vetted, contemplated and put forth effort in pursuing Matt Cassel.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's the system more than Cassel

It seems like McDaniels has proven that this system is very difficult for QBs to master. I think he was considering that he might have a better shot at winning right away with a QB that works well in his system. So while Cassel may struggle in KC, that’s no reflection on how well he would have done here in the same system that he did well in last year.

Besides, the deal wasn’t a good one so he didn’t take it. McDaniels seems pretty bright to me.

by 47RulesofHighlyEffectiveBankRobbers on Sep 23, 2009 8:58 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

My feelings the same

by Douglas A. Lee on Sep 23, 2009 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDaniels didn’t take the deal because there was never a deal on the table. Cassel had been traded (with Vrabel) the night before Denver even got involved.

Tampa called Denver to express interest in Cutler. Tampa had nothing in the way of a replacement QB that Denver wanted so McDaniels reached out to NE to see about a three way deal so Denver could obtain a replacement if they traded Jay. But McDaniels was too late as Cassel was no longer available, he had been traded to KC. Again, McDaniels has already admitted to being too late in entering discussions with Cassel.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a figment of your imagination.

But I do believe McDaniels when he said he vetted, contemplated and put forth effort in pursuing Matt Cassel.

Again, McDaniels has already admitted to being too late in entering discussions with Cassel.

All McD said was he considered the possibility, like he would consider any proposal from another team.
The rest is your fantasy – e.g., that McD said he put forth effort in pursuing Cassell.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 23, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDaniels said “we (Denver) arrived too late to that dance” when discussing the Cassel trade.

It’s a quote preserved for all time and it implies effort.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

if you want to read "effort’ into that, you can do so. A more reasonable interpretation is that McD just was explaining that it didn’t happen and that was an easy way of doing so without saying, e.g., Cassel sucks and I didn’t want him.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 23, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is Peter King's take.

Peter King 3/2/09:

"Moral of the story for New England: We’ll always think Belichick could have gotten a little more for Cassel (and Vrabel), and he probably should have waited and taken what was probably a relatively minor risk. But the team wanting Cassel, Denver, blew it by not being quicker off the draw and getting its ducks in a row before the weekend."

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peter King

and you are both entitled to your fantasies.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 23, 2009 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peter King has direct access to Josh McDaniels and is an award winning journalist and Sr. writer for SI.

Call his credibility into question, but that just sour grapes from you with no basis in fact. BTW, Peter King took Cutler to task for the offseason fiasco so don’t think he is an MSM guy that hates Denver.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bottom line is...

…that Cassel was known to be available from the get go. If McD had seriously wanted him, he could have done so. The rest is just a fantasy for you and King to enjoy, for whatever reasons the two of you may want to enjoy them.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 23, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean a fantasy, Peter King, Josh McDaniels and I dreamed up.

And was reported on by another 1,000+ media outlets.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, Cook did, and ESPN happily jumped aboard

The Williamson article is probably the best one to look at of the first day stories.

Who do you think “a source close to the situation” is? You’re smart, McGeorge, can you figure it out?

Also, King’s article contains a juicy quote — “we were too late to the dance” — but did McDaniels actually contradict what he had been saying all along? Would King have quoted him contradicting his earlier statements if he had said that?

I’ve dealt with this issue extensively (see recent post here). ESPN’s stories differ from Schefter’s original story in in one significant detail, and it’s worse than believed. And others pick up this detail and retransmit it.

A classic example — Schefter’s headline in the story that broke the news:

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/28/cutler-upset-over-potential-deals-to-detroit-tampa-bay/

NFP did a curious thing, they reprinted his article verbatim with this as its new headline:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/denver-was-shopping-cutler.html

Just an aside — Cutler says he learned of the story on the internet (McDaniels says he told him).

How could Cutler have learned about his trade on the internet when the first story on the internet is about him being mad about the potential trade?

Did Cutler forget about speaking to Schefter? Maybe it’s a short-term memory loss? You think?

"If people define situations as real, they are real in their consequences". W. I. Thomas

by Colinski on Sep 23, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs

Game, Set, and Match

Thanks Colinski

by AllBroncsallday on Sep 24, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

And the pointed lack of response

Is noted.

by AllBroncsallday on Sep 24, 2009 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

peter King is a east coast moron!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Sep 23, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've Never Seen

anything to indicate that position. In fact the evidence or interviews I have read would directly contradict your proposed scenario.

Regardless, the number of assumptions one would have to allow in order to reach the conclusion that McDaniels was somehow abnormally obsessed with Cassel, primarily due to non-football reasons, doesn’t make a reasonable assertion in my opinion.

It would be interesting to, from an academic standpoint, see how Cassel could perform in Denver’s system. A shame we will never know.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 9:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then you haven’t been reading much. Peter King laid this whole story out with a play by play as it went down.

To paraphrase of what Peter King wrote: "KC and NE had nailed out a deal Friday night (when the Vrabel trade was announced sans compensation) and Denver/Tampa swooped in on Saturday to express an interest is getting Cassel to Denver and Cutler to Tampa. McDaniels said, "we were too late to that dance". NE couldn’t back out of their deal with KC because it had already been consummated.

I am making educated assumptions that McDaniels was interested in Cassel because of their past and successful working relationship. I don’t think this is much of a stretch at all.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Don't See

anything abnormal in his thoughts of Cassel, or interest, which you seem to imply.

I do read a lot and if you think that Peter King’s comments there are the only version of events or even the most accurate then you should look around more.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

As McDaniels was admitteding communicated with Peter King during this whole Cutler fiasco, I feel confident that I’m going to the right source.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I guess you can have that opinion.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have facts and quotes. You have opinions.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't Confuse

“facts” with anything you have presented.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You made me do it.

Peter King: 3/2/09

“The Patriots never get snookered. So why does it look like everyone in Foxboro is wearing fleece?

The answer is they didn’t get taken in the trade of Cassel and Mike Vrabel. Belichick did underplay his hand, but there were extenuating circumstances, some of which were intelligently reported over the weekend by Adam Schefter, Tom Curran, Chris Mortensen and Tim Graham.

Belichick probably did pull the trigger too soon on the deal of Cassel and Vrabel to Kansas City for the 34th pick in the draft. The reason he didn’t take one of the three-way deals involving Denver and either the Lions or Bucs is very simple: He’d already agreed to a trade with his former right-hand man, Kansas City GM Scott Pioli, either late Friday or very early Saturday. And he had some pressure on him to make the deal early in free agency because the team was so snug up against the NFL’s $127-million salary cap, and because he knew Cassel’s value wasn’t as high as it should have been because of his mega-salary and the fact he’d only played at a high level for one year."

As free agency dawned, the Pats were $1.7-million under the cap, and they saved $1 million by restructuring Randy Moss’ contract. That allowed them to sign running back Fred Taylor on Friday afternoon (two years, $8 million, approximately $2.3 in 2009 cap dollars). But to get a really big chunk, Belichick needed to do something really big, like dealing Vrabel (saving $3.36 million on the cap) and Cassel (saving $14.65 million). If he dealt Cassel and Vrabel, he’d be able to operate freely with $18 million in cap room … and have more leverage in the 2009 draft than any other team in the league.

You’re right to ask why Belichick didn’t wait. I bet he’s asking himself that same question this morning. But think back to midweek last week. I had two contenders for Cassel tell me essentially the same thing: They wouldn’t deal a first-round pick or a second- and something else for Cassel, and then pay him a multi-year contract with a bonus of maybe $20 million and $35 million in guaranteed money. Too risky, they thought. (I disagree but I’m not running a franchise.) Many teams felt Cassel might be a lesser player than he was in 2008 (eighth in passing yards, 10th in quarterback rating) upon leaving the security blanket of a Belichick-coached team and Josh McDaniels-coordinated offense.

So Belichick knew he probably wasn’t going to get a sweetheart deal. And last week, before the market opened, I’m told he never got offered a first-round pick by any team in trade. I’m also told he asked Pioli for the 34th pick in the draft — nothing more — and when Pioli told him he’d do it, they had a deal.

“Bill had to be nervous,‘’ said one club official briefed on the deal. "There was never any guarantee that any of those three-way trades was going to work, and they cropped up so late anyway. He could have been left with nothing if he lost the Chiefs.’’

I’m sure Belichick doesn’t mind doing something good for Cassel (giving him his own promising team to pilot) and Pioli (giving him something better than Tyler Thigpen), but I believe if Denver offered Belichick its first-round pick last Thursday instead of, apparently, on Saturday, that Cassel would be a Bronco today and current Denver QB Jay Cutler a Buc or Lion. Cutler, by the way, will make peace with McDaniels, who’s now coaching Denver. He has no choice, and he’s a reasonable kid. I don’t blame him for being ticked off at the Broncos for trying to deal for Cassel, but he’s going to have to get over it and realize he’s got a heck of a chance to win with McDaniels running his offense."

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fact

Peter King wrote an article on 3/2/09.

He also calls into question his own assertions with what should be consider a higher quality source.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDaniels was his source, which is why he quotes McDaniels.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You Don't See it then?

Well it is in there.

You realize this all stems from the fact that I just don’t see any poor judgement, or infatuation, with Cassel on the part of McDaniels? This is some digression for sure.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct.

I do see McDaniels expressing poor judgment and some infatuation with Cassel and I know McDaniels tried to act upon it. Did McDaniels go all out. I don’t think so. But he was testing the waters and I think that is very poor judgment (primarily based on Cassel’s salary cap hit and very limited body of work).

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

"testing the waters"

As he should be coming to a team that was dismal in so many areas other than on defense. cutler was ticked from the get go with the Shanny firing and again with Bates leaving for USC. cutler knew that his gun slinging days were over in Denver and wanted out. Cassel was only an excuse he had to whine his way out. That’s all. cutler will find out sooner rather than later that his choices were poor and could have probably become a great QB under the tutorship of McDaniels. Too bad we will never know because of “ONES” behavior.

by bfree2bronc on Sep 23, 2009 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peter King 3/2/09:

“Belichick probably did pull the trigger too soon on the deal of Cassel and Vrabel to Kansas City for the 34th pick in the draft. The reason he didn’t take one of the three-way deals involving Denver and either the Lions or Bucs is very simple: He’d already agreed to a trade with his former right-hand man, Kansas City GM Scott Pioli, either late Friday or very early Saturday.”

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peter King 3/2/09:

“Moral of the story for New England: We’ll always think Belichick could have gotten a little more for Cassel (and Vrabel), and he probably should have waited and taken what was probably a relatively minor risk. But the team wanting Cassel, Denver, blew it by not being quicker off the draw and getting its ducks in a row before the weekend.”

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't you think...

that if McD really wanted Cassel as much as you are asserting, he would have made that his number one priority? As I recall, he was more focused on wooing Dawkins, and many other free agents to come to Denver.

by adamriggs on Sep 23, 2009 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think he wanted Cassel THAT MUCH. I know that McDaniels pursued a deal for Matt Cassel and I know he was too late in expressing this interest.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha

Ultimately then we may agree.

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inquired or pursued? I thought it was inquired.

Just like he inquired about other players and Cassel wouldn’t of been anything other than a good backup to cutler. That is all. Cassel sure as hell wasn’t coming to Denver to take cutler’s place. I’ve got swamp land for sale in the Sahara desert too.

by bfree2bronc on Sep 23, 2009 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it’s as crazy as you do, but Cassel is getting paid $63MM in KC, and was going to make $14.5MM for one year in New England. That is not just starting QB money, its franchise QB money.

If Cassel was coming to Denver, it was to be a starting QB and you’d be out of some gambling money.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

There you go

If Cassel was coming to Denver, it was to be a starting QB and you’d be out of some gambling money.

Cassel was never coming to Denver. Only you and Peter King have fantasies about it.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 23, 2009 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean nightmares.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

We agree on that.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 24, 2009 8:09 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If McDaniels was infatuated with Cassel

he wouldn’t have been late to the dance. He would have been trying to get a deal done as soon as he got the job in Denver. The fact that he was late to the discussions proves that he wasn’t gung-ho about getting him.

Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage

by TD4HOF on Sep 23, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's right

Cassel was franchised only so the Patriots could trade him. McD could have been pursuing him from the get go, as soon as he was hired as HC of the Broncos. Any assertion that McD was infatuated with Cassel is lunacy.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 23, 2009 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely.

by bfree2bronc on Sep 23, 2009 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that Tampa/Denver were "too late to the dance"...

…indicates that McD was not pursuing Cassell. McD was well aware that NE was trying to move Cassell. If he was truely persuing him don’t you think he would have contacted NE to try to get a deal done well before an agreement was already made between KC & NE?

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 23, 2009 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It did make sense

In that McD was going to get a QB that knew the offense. Giving him a chance on focusing on the rest of the positions. Without Cassell McD has had to focus a lot of his time and energy on the QB position.

What is the falacy that is promoted by the press is that it was a straight up Cassell for Cutler. Denver would have got Cassell and Tampa’s pick and Tampa would have had to provide New England for compensation for Cassell. Still this was not enough value for Cutler and is why IMO that the deal failed.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 23, 2009 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

3nS is correct. This trade would not have been Cassel for Cutler. Denver would have received more than just Cassel. McDaniels was not trying to trade straight up. He knew what Cutler’s market value was. This is something that the media seems to forget about when talking about Cutler and Orton…. we also got Moreno, the Phonz and half of Quinn.

by DieselDan on Sep 23, 2009 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding? If you want to call out the MSM for being wrong about the particulars of the Cutler Cassel deal (I believe 3nS is correct as well), you should get your facts straight as well.

Denver got Ayers (with Chicago’s pick), a 1st round pick in 2010 (Chicago’s pick), Quinn (with the aid of trading up with Chicago 3rd round pick) and Orton. That is the most accurate accounting of the trade.

Saying Denver got Moreno and Smith as part of the Cutler deal is nonsense and in no way accurate or based in fact.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

How that comes about

If Denver would have had 1 first round pick from what I heard they would have taken Ayers. But, they realized that Moreno would not have lasted till their second pick and chances were that Ayers would so they took Moreno. They would not have traded next years pick for Smith if they didn’t have an extra one. and they wouldn’t have had the 3rd round pick to move up to take Quinn if it wasn’t for the Cutler trade. However I would downgrade from half to a third for Quinn since Denver gave up a 5th in the deal.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 23, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Talk about assumptions. If this, if that, then this.

If KC hadn’t drafted Tyson Jackson, if Green Bay had taken Oher instead of Raji, etc.

Denver drafted Ayers, and Quinn, got Orton and still get a 2010 1st rounder from Chicago.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats one way to lok at it.

But if it wasn’t for the trade Denver wouldn’t have Moreno, Smith, or Quinn.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 23, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it wasn’t for KC drafting Tyson Jackson and/or Green Bay drafting Raji, Denver wouldn’t have Moreno, Smith or Quinn.

It’s so very simple. Denver drafted Ayers, and Quinn, got Orton and still get a 2010 1st rounder from Chicago for Cutler and Johny Knox. That is your trade.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

This isn't really subject matter that I dig

but I need to jump in and support my boy, Knowshon. I believe if Raji and Jackson were both there at #12 they would have still selected Moreno instead of them (assuming Moreno’s availability as well). And while a case could be made that Raji/Jackson falling would have guaranteed Dline value at Denver’s pick at #17, that isn’t the point I am trying to make.

Denver had Moreno rated as an elite on their board, a once a draft kind of player, who you are lucky to even have a shot at. He is a rare combination of skill, natural talent, ethic, and attitude. It is the type of combination that makes the whole team better having a teammate like that, and then on top of it he has game changing talent from the RB positions. He will give everything he has, all the time and twice on Sundays to give his team a shot. And he doesn’t just say it. He has a record of doing it, and doing it consistently, and our consistiencies are who we are. (except the record was on saturdays and fridays…) He lives to win football games, and he has the talent to justify that as a life goal. That is a quality that is Elway-rare.

I don’t think they would have passed him up for anyone in this, or many another, draft.

And note that I am not saying that he is guaranteed to be a success in the NFL, but if he fails it won’t be because of something he lacks. None of us get the “success” guarantee. We all have to fight and struggle for our goals, and hopefully, through the fire of battle, we become the kinds of people who are worthy of our own desires. When it comes to the pigskin, Moreno is the epitome of a football player and already worthy of the chance to battle to be one of the greats.

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Sep 23, 2009 11:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right that the compensation the trading Cutler would have been absurdly low. I agree that the MSM was reporting unfounded rumors about what players and picks were involved.

But you are wrong about why the deal failed. The deal failed because Denver was too late in expressing interest., as McDaniels himself said when discussing a Cassel deal with NE. Cassel had been traded the night before Denver even made overtures.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

But if New England got compensation that would have been greater than what they got from KC, they would have put that deal on hold.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 23, 2009 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

NE couldn’t put the deal on hold because it had already been consummated. It had been announced on Friday night that Vrabel had been traded to KC.

As we all know, Cassel and Vrabel were traded to KC for a 2nd round pick.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The deal couldn't have been consumated

because the no-trade deadline hadn’t been met yet.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 23, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peter King: 3/2/09

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is the link.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/index.html

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like the article says

It was agreed to. But as in real estate the deal isn’t consumated until closing. Yes Denver was late to the party but I don’t think it was as important to them as it was to Tampa or Detroit. So it wasn’t as much Denver being late as much as it was the other teams.

"Sanity is the realization that everyone is insane to some degree." Me

by 3nS on Sep 23, 2009 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs

Absolutely.

by adamriggs on Sep 23, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that a Tampa or Detroit had more urgency then Denver.

But the deal was consumated when it was reported on Friday night that Vrabel had been traded to KC. As you know, Vrabel was part of the Cassel deal.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if we remember the trade demand Cutler made when Bates was let go (long before he used the Cassel situation to publicly display his displeasure), I can see how McDaniels would peruse tape of QBs throughout the league. He did know what he thought he had in Cassel, and he probably thought he could get him ‘cheap’ in trade value.

I’m hesitant to believe terms of supposed deals in the works after all the ridiculous things I heard about Marshall bringing Jets players or Boldin.

But I do think that if somehow Cassel (now clearly inferior to Orton), had made it here, McDaniels would be confident in his ability to win. I’m with McG here in that I’m very glad that bullet never got loaded in the gun.

That being said, I was embarrassed last year when Cassel dismantled our ‘first-place’ Broncos. Although, we lost to a bunch of quarterbacks I don’t consider strong. And, we let Brady Quinn throw up a ton of points too, and there were rumors for him as well.

Last point: maybe Todd Haley is the NFL’s worst coach, and all this is skewed slightly too.

by dr.mort on Sep 23, 2009 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peter King is the only media person that spoke about a Cutler trade demand when Bates was fired. King has not spoken about it since he 1st and only reporting of it. I wish he would. That story never got traction and I wonder why.

Me thinks McDaniels was the source of that one.

Tom Cable is the NFLs worst coach.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

-1

FAIL. Denver got great value for Cutler. $1.25 to the dollar if you asked me. Put me in the pool of people who think you are greatly exaggerating the “infatuation” McDaniels had with Cassel.

Mountain = Mole Hill

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Sep 23, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs

The deal was a failure only if you believe cutler is in fact a 'franchise' player.

Chicago felt he was and that is all that mattered to them. Were they desparate? I’m not sure if they were desparate with getting a quarterback or if they should have been despartely seacrhing for an offensive coordinator who could put a decent offense on the field. They didn’t address the later part because they are either too lazy or too stupid to pursue that route. Now they have their godsend in cutler and the hope of the franchise lies upon his shoulders. If he fails then watch the sh*t hit the fan in Chicago. Orton has been miscoached ever since he left college and now he has a chance to do something a lot of other quarterbacks woould kill for and that’s get the proper teaching from a coach that knows what he is talking about.

by bfree2bronc on Sep 23, 2009 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

Detroit got a 1st, 3rd, 6th and 7th for Roy Williams.

Roy Williams is just a WR and not even a top 10 one at that.

I stole the eighty cents on the dollar from Bill Simmons (he said seventy five cents on the dollar).

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Sep 23, 2009 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some people always think they are getting the short end of the stick

I know for a fact if I were in charge of the Broncos, we would be scoring 40+ a game, holding our opponents to 6 – 9 points per game, and would be the talk of the nation.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Sep 23, 2009 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where 2-0...

And still talking about jay cutler and cassel. Two players that are not Denver bronco players. Let’s move already And focus on the raiders this week.

Moreno 09 and beyond!!!

by BroncoKO on Sep 23, 2009 1:32 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Evaluations of Cassel aside, I think they got a lot more than $0.80 on the dollar. I’d invert it: $1.25 on the dollar. I just can’t picture a modern NFL team giving up more than a starting quarterback, 2 first-rounders and a 3rd-round for anybody. Anybody. Until we see somebody haul in more loot for a player, the default point of view has to be that the Broncos have set the new maximum return value.

Today that is. Let’s not bring up that trade Dallas and Minnesota once swung….

by Chibronx on Sep 23, 2009 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair to the Bears

They also got our fifth round pick, which they used on WR Johny Knox, who is doing pretty good.

A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.

Louis L’Amour

by bradley on Sep 23, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for pointing this one out Ted

What a tool, I guess this guy is a mind reader. he knows exactly what McDaniels was thinking through that process. I’m just constantly amazed.

by Lisa FB on Sep 23, 2009 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

It really is amazing, isn't it?

Just how many mind-readers are out there, that simply know what the guy was thinking and feeling. A few of these folks even post here, so wow, aren’t we special.

by AllBroncsallday on Sep 23, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

And isn't it also amazing

that if the mind reader writes a column with opinions, it is suddenly fact. Jeesh, even lie detectors aren’t allowed as evidence, and they are a lot more reliable than mind reading.

by idahobronc on Sep 23, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

I know this because, well, because I KNOW it to be true.

Oh well then, case closed!

by AllBroncsallday on Sep 24, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I listen to his show in the mornings

And he is equally obtuse and/or willing to allow speculation pass as fact. We actually got into a bit of a spat over his insistence, before the season began, that the Broncos D was “objectively” horrible. When I pointed out that they were anything but horrible in the exhibition games, he dismissed that as being the preseason.

I don’t think that word means what he thinks it means.

by JeffG on Sep 23, 2009 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good Morning nyc, Thank You for all you do on Horse Tracks...

Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM

by UB3 on Sep 23, 2009 7:36 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Nyc

The only big test will be that Doom doesn’t get eaten by a hungry JaMarcus the Hutt as Elvis sacks him.

by KaptainKirk on Sep 23, 2009 8:05 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks NYC

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 23, 2009 8:28 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks NYC

I thinkk JRussell is going to be in for a long day.

live and die blue and orange

by jerry251 on Sep 23, 2009 8:30 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

larry coyer

so last night, i flip on nfl access briefly, and they are ripping indy for never making adjustments against the dolphins’ wildcat (and the rushing attack in general). 10 wildcat plays, over 100 yds and a TD. 45 mins time of possession.

so i smiled and remembered the days that i used to scream about coyer NEVER MAKING ADJUSTMENTS. that was his fatal flaw. i remember the agony of watching roc alexander getting shredded repeatedly against indy and never seeing an adjustment, seeing coyer shrug and say the goal was to stop harrison. i remember coyer fire blitzing his players into an exhausted stupor even when they were getting beat on the blitz. i remember wondering if coyer was the only coach in the NFL that always said “no changes!” at halftime, regardless of actual results of the gameplan.

similar to hearing nolan say this past week that you just can’t play vanilla defenses in this league, because the talent level is too high, and you’re placing your players at a disadvantage. maybe you can get away with it if you have the old tampa personnel, and you can just straight up beat people even if they know exactly where your defenders are going to be and what they’ll be doing, but otherwise you have to gameplan. felt like he reached out and slapped bates across the face.

by ssc on Sep 23, 2009 8:31 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Good morning nyc and thanks for the news

by bfree2bronc on Sep 23, 2009 9:13 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, NYC.

"Hughesy was right."

by Tempestuous Binary on Sep 23, 2009 9:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks NYC

The title of one of the Jim Legwold articles doesn’t sit well with me. I know we have only played two games, however I wouldn’t say this team mirrors last year’s team. I mean he says we are 8th in yards/game and 19th in points/game. That’s it….wow. I guess nothing has changed then.

Second, Jim, Let go of the Shanahan/Marshall topic. Shanahan isn’t on the Broncos sideline anymore, so I personally don’t care what he was going to do 6 months ago.

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Sep 23, 2009 9:45 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

That whole "story" never passed the basic smell test anyway

I mean, come on. Yeah, Shanahan’s just gonna CUT Marshall, seeya, and get nothing whatsoever in return. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Sure, he’s just gonna let an asset go for nothing.

That’s just flat out silly, yet Mort reports it breathlessly like it’s absolute fact. This is how the media makes the public stupid.

by AllBroncsallday on Sep 23, 2009 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank You MHR!

I’ve been a Broncos fan since 1986. I was born and still live in Puerto Rico, so news about the Broncos don’t come that often. This off-season was hard for Bronco nation and reading all the negative stuff written about the direction of our beloved Broncos has been long and harsh. I knew we were going to be better, as did MHR and the fans that post in this web-site. I just want to see a competitive team every Sunday, with character players that put the team before stats. After two games I’m positive that is the vision and direction this team has. So, Kudos to the organization and coaches that had the "cojones" to change the mentality and vision of the whole organization. And thanks to MHR for giving this die-hard Broncos fan, the daily chance to learn about the team, their community and players with a positive and objective outlook. That being said, Go Broncos!

by wisco on Sep 23, 2009 10:41 AM MDT reply actions 5 recs

Exactly.

by Muzia on Sep 23, 2009 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen brother.

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Sep 23, 2009 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

double amen, brother

by idahobronc on Sep 23, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Triple amen brother.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by kentuckybronco on Sep 23, 2009 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice Post Wisco

Hope you are able to visit MHR often.

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Sep 23, 2009 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks NYC...

Love this quote from Doom in Armstrong’s piece:

…to me, the sleeper has been Andra Davis. He’s the quarterback of the defense. We were blessed to get him on board.

Davis has not only performed far better than I expected him to in the first two games, it sounds like his leadership is vital to the chemistry of the new orange crush….!

If Ayers continues to improve and D.J. gets better in the new system, and Le Kevin Smith and Spencer Larsen recover this could be a nice little defense…

"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington

by Broncs Cheer on Sep 23, 2009 11:18 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Josh McD interview

(Thanks to pshin8670 for posting this as a fanpost)

Nice Josh McDaniels interview with Chris Myers and Hartman. Really good answers to some (mostly) good questions.

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 23, 2009 12:24 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Brandon Marshall... happy?

Man, if this doesn’t make your day nothing will…

Broncos’ Marshall all kinds of happy

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 23, 2009 1:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow. Talk about a HUGE improvement in handling the media from last week.

"Sir, you keep asking the same question. I keep answering it. I don’t know what else you want me to do. I’m excited about playing against Oakland. I’m excited about us being 2-0. All I can do is do my job.

“Me being out there, not being out there as much as I used to be is something I have to get used to, but it’s the National Football league. Things change. I think I’m good enough to be out there, but it doesn’t matter what I think, so all I can do is embrace it. I’ve learned from trying to fight the system. You know what, this is a great time of the season for us to be 2-0.”

"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton

by odarol on Sep 23, 2009 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed!

I was stoked to see that piece. He sounds on the right path, answering things the right way. I would like to see him do more on the field now, as I’m sure he would, but this is a great start.

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 23, 2009 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about this Nugget

Marshall insists he knows Broncos’ playbook

by KaptainKirk on Sep 23, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

To me, he seemed a little under the weather.

In his interview on the DB, his voice was really hourse and his eyes were kinda dull. So, maybe that contributed a little bit to him not playing much on sunday. Hopefully he feels better by sunday. We gotta get them raidaz.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by kentuckybronco on Sep 23, 2009 5:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are a couple new interviews up on denverbroncos.com — Orton Dawkins and McDaniels

McDaniels even gives Klis crap for only asking him one question, seems to be settling in quite nice and seems very relaxed

A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.

by Todd Jewell on Sep 23, 2009 2:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs