Sanity Break
by Doc Bear on Sep 3, 2009 12:04 PM MDT
Email
PrintWe interrupt the ongoing claims that Kyle Orton can't play football to bring you a different perspective. Sports Illustrated ran a sensible article today, courtesy of Jim Trotter. Here's a partial quote:
"Kyle Orton's biggest adjustment since his arrival in Denver five months ago in the Jay Cutler trade hasn't been to learn a playbook that's thicker than Paula Deen's Southern twang. No, the former Bear's biggest adjustment has been to ignore the stopwatch in his head each time he drops back to pass.
In Chicago, Orton says, "we were a three-step passing team. If my first read wasn't there, I had to get rid of it." In Denver, where the Broncos have one of the league's top tackle tandems in Ryan Clady on the left and Ryan Harris on the right, the pass protection is so good that Orton will have the chance to look to his second and third reads and possibly come back to his primary receiver. "Here, I've got so much time," he says. "It was hard for me to make that change in my mind."
insofar as the NFL is a quarterback-driven league, most of the scrutiny will be on Orton, a fourth-round pick of the Bears in 2005. The biggest knock on him is that he lacks the arm strength to stretch the field, although that wasn't apparent during one practice, when he overthrew speedy Eddie Royal on a deep post.
"Perception in this league is kind of comical," says Orton. "I can make every throw I ever need to make. We were in a running offense in Chicago that let the defense win games. [My statistics] might not have been what some of the other guys were putting up, but we won a lot of football games and did some good things."
First-year coach Josh McDaniels studied Orton extensively before bringing him in. What he saw was a player who was 21-12 as a starter despite throwing nearly as many interceptions (25) as touchdown passes (27) and who won an NFC North title in one of his two seasons as a full-time No. 1. He also saw that Orton was strong in one critical area in which Cutler and the Broncos struggled last season: red-zone turnovers. During his career Orton has thrown 22 touchdowns and only two interceptions inside the opponents' 20-yard line, while the Cutler-led Denver offense tied for the league lead with seven red-zone turnovers (four interceptions, three fumbles) last season."
It's nice to read an analysis of the situation that sticks to some facts and provides some insight into the situation. I completely understand when some fans are still hanging on to the argument that Jay Cutler shouldn't have been traded - it bothers the heck out of them. I think that they're got every right to complain. Even so, continuing to repeat a story that Orton can't throw a 25 yard pass when he's already thrown a 40 yards TD pass is pointless. For what it's worth - being angry about on thing isn't a license to keep claiming something that's just false.
It's also nice to garner some football knowledge. Chicago's three step drop wasn't what we'll be running this year (which is one reason that we're not running a true West Coast Offense, by the way, for some of those who have asked) so there's no reason to keep suggesting that the playbooks will be similar. I wish the Broncos - including their quarterback and coach - all the best in the coming season.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
60 comments
|
22 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I lvoed that article and
It was totally apparent that was his biggest adjustmen from the first game to the second. He suddenly realized he had time to make his checkdowns and didn’t have to get rid of the ball in the first 3 seconds after the snap.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
Good read, thanks Bear and rec'd
One sentence really stood out.
During his career Orton has thrown 22 touchdowns and only two interceptions inside the opponents’ 20-yard line, while the Cutler-led Denver offense tied for the league lead with seven red-zone turnovers (four interceptions, three fumbles) last season."
Nice to have some level headed analysis.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for to many men on the field?" - Jim Bouton
does that include the SD game?
I would add another fumble in there in the RZ – Thanks again for the win Hochuli!
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
That would make it four interceptions and four fumbles
otherwise known as a “balanced attack”.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Sep 3, 2009 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions 5 recs
LOL
that’s awesome my pointy-eared friend
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
Good Stuff
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for to many men on the field?" - Jim Bouton
some of us are drinking beverages you know
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Sep 3, 2009 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
You need joke insurance
But anyway . . . thanks, guys! I just logged on, after getting off work and watching the Broncos game, and not only did they look great but my off-the-cuff remark had become green. Wow! That and the cool book I just started and the fact that it’s the weekend makes me feel green all over. Brandstater and the D looked awesome. There’s some awfully good coaching going on. I haven’t worried about the mistakes because learning to do things right from the ground up, which is what is happening on both sides of the ball, leads to lots of mistakes at first but relatively error-free football down the line. Or so I think.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Thanks Bear...
I have been a supporter of McD’s choice (and confidence) in KO and I am excited to see how we do this year with him at the helm…
I am also looking forward to watching Brandstater’s development…I’m hoping that injuries do not force him onto the field too early but (IMO) TB looks like he is a diamond in the rough…
As always, appreciate your work…Go Broncos
Orton's Clock
The sooner he adjust to our line, the better we’ll be, but I’m more interested in his pocket awareness than anything else.
I def
wanna see him make his checkdowns….I’m tired of the WIDE OPEN receiver being ignored and then an INT being thrown to someone heavily covered. He definitely has the time to shuffle around a little and pick his target.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
So this line...
…a playbook that’s thicker than Paula Deen’s Southern twang
Gives me hope that maybe there is something to the thought that perhaps McD isn’t using the whole playbook currently. Unless he has, like, 2,000 bubble screens diagrammed in there.
This is our team, let's have fun with it! - dmitchell624
by solace on Sep 3, 2009 12:48 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think he's even got past the coverpage!
There is only One Moment—this moment—the Eternal Moment of Now
by sirsam on Sep 3, 2009 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't Cutler
the current reigning Mr. Olympia?
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 3, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
;-p
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Sep 3, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
great article BB
We can see the anxiety to get rid of the ball in his early games, and can see that he began to settle down in the later game.
Also, if you look at his passer rating game by game, you will see it has improved in each of the three preseason games.
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
Me Too
Orton is losing the “happy feet” syndrome and is more comfortable there. When I look at Tom Brady I see a QB who does not have a particularly strong arm BUT he is calm, cool and collected in the pocket. He takes his time and delivers. Tom Brady is not known for his scrambling (such as Vick or Cutler) but then again neither are P. Manning, E. Manning, Phyllis Rivers, and others. Pocket presence and good decision making win over athleticism more often than not. Call me Polyanna, but I see many of the same qualities in Orton.
His rating has gone up,
and his INTs have gone down. Every game: 3 – 1 – 0. We’re all looking for improvement. I see exactly that. If he gets more comfortable and goes through his progression when the first read is covered, he’ll be fine this year. That stuff should come with a bit more comfort with the offense (and not just the playbook, but the other 10 guys on the field).
by BroncosBassist on Sep 3, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Hmmm....
I appreciated the level-headedness of the article too but there was one part of it that left me a bit unease. It was DJ’s comments regarding the QB situation:
“We had a great quarterback — one of the top five in the league,” says sixth-year linebacker D.J. Williams. “[Losing Cutler] set us back a little bit. I would love to see Jay here, but we’ve got to work with the parts we’ve got now — and that’s not to say they’re not good enough or can’t get the job done. They can.”
I’m not sure when that comment was taken….but the context of DJ’s comment seemed a bit more focused on the loss of Cutler rather than what Orton brings to the team. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for their new field general.
Dunno….maybe just a little paranoid I guess.
Doesn't really fit in with the...
Cutler was a baby and they didn’t like him in the locker room thing does it???
Hmmmmmm
I think I remember that comment
and it was pretty early. Context isn’t quite right for it. I don’t read much into it, but I could see how you could.
by BroncosBassist on Sep 3, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Well of course most are going to read it that way
And why on earth wouldn’t you. What DJ said was absolutely true.
by rururuland784 on Sep 3, 2009 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions
the article
the article also predicts Denver 3rd in AFC West
Orton has his problems and that is pretty clear.
Whether he comes around to meet those problems is on his shoulders for he must lead the offense. What gets me is the ineffective play calling McDaniels has done thus far. This spread or what ever they want to call it is too predictive. It’s time to air it out a couple of times to keep the opposing defenses off balance even if the play isn’t successful. McDaniels knows better and he may be lulling teams to sleep, at least I hope so.
On another note; did anybody notice the composure and poise Brandstater showed after relieving Kyle in the 2nd qtr? He looked a whole lot better this time and should grow into Mcdaniels’ system and scheme. He’s tall enough to read over defenses and had a couple of nice passes.
“Something clicked,” Brandstater said. “I felt so much better, and I don’t even know when it was, but at some point, I felt like I really belong out here. I can do it. There wasn’t that nervous second-guessing any more.”
I can't believe you and I are the only ones to see it.
It’s all about Orton, Orton this Orton that, well Orton will do what he has to do and that’s perform. How he performs is another thing. He can be horrible or he can be great or he can be mediocre. Only time will tell about that.
Brandstater may be the next Brady, I saw characteristics in simularity.
The funny thing is
some people were ready to jump off the bridge because a rookie quarterback, not yet used to the speed of the game at this level, with few reps in practice, who had never taken a snap against another NFL team, looked lost. The sky is falling! I expected him to look lost and figured it was valuable experience he could learn from. What I didn’t expect was how much more confident and effective he was only one week later. Now, probably some of the same folks who were ready to jump off the bridge are ready to anoint the B-man starter. That, too, is overreacting, but it does does bode well for his future as a development project, especially considering who’s developing him.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Sep 3, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Huge +1, spock
I think Brandstater has a chance to develop into something, but I do think we only have 2 data points. We’ll see a lot of him tonight, and hopefully he’ll pick up where he left off on Sunday. If everything goes well, we might have our future QB right here on the squad already.
But, I agree with the others who say we don’t want to rush him into anything. That’s not going to help him at all, IMHO.
by BroncosBassist on Sep 3, 2009 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
But...
did you get aload of that beak hes sportin, I fear he is going to need a special facemask.
But seriously, I think he is flashing early signs of being servicable.
No I think a lot of other people see it,
including McDaniels, and just don’t want to hurry him in to fast and to soon. It’s got to be a tough decision though. I’m not against Orton as I think he can get the job done, but, the mobility Brandstater brings adds a lot to the offense.
bchiper
That may turn out to be true, but all of his scouting reports from each year noted that he’s not very mobile at all. He’s big, makes great decision and is smarter than all get out, though. Good arm, even if some doubted it. (strangely, that doesn’t seem uncommon…..lol)
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Peyton Manning/Tom Brady mobility
I don’t know that anyone thinks he’s the next Steve Young, or even the next Jake Plummer, but he does look like he’s got that pocket awareness and ability to move around and extend plays that modern ‘pocket-passers’ like Manning and Brady show.
Eh, it’s been less than the equivalent of one game. I’ll know better tonight after the first half. :)
by BroncosBassist on Sep 3, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Manning Brady Mobility?
Gosh BB, I really don’t see either of those guys as being particularly mobile. Pocket presence yes, mobile no.
He clearly meant pocket presence
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I Know
It’s just that broncobear said scouting reports were that TB was not very mobile. I was just chipping in to comment that Manning and Brady are not particularly mobile and should have added that I don’t think it terribly important that TB is mobile.
You're right, EZ
Brady and Peyton Manning joke about which one is less mobile. Both move within the pocket unusually well. I love watching Peyton’s footwork – no mater what he does, he’s always seeming to be in a perfect place to throw. Footwork is very important, ‘mobility’ is less so.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
BTW, wan't that the report on Rothlesberger (sp)
Coming out of Ohio as well? He moves pretty well when he needs to.
Cassell had problems in his first few games before going 11-5
And he had a few years learning the system. I’m for giving Orton a full season before passing judgement.
It was nice
to see a member of the MSM acknowledge that Orton has more time to throw here but has to get used to it. Great link.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
BroncoBear
Liked your article but you gave Cutlers red zone turnovers including ints and fumbles whileyou only talked about Kyles interceptions. How many red zone turnoveres for Kyle?
Actually, that wsn't from me
That was part of the article – shoot the other messenger (lol – just kidding). But, to the best of my knowledge, they didn’t list fumbles because Orton didn’t have any.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
Great article.
I’ve seen that posited by someone a few times before, and had bought into it pretty well already (as a lot of MHR probably had), but it’s nice to see someone from a mainstream publication acknowledge those little differences that Kyle will see and begin to appreciate in Denver. Now, if the OL can just clean up those garbage penalties from last game.
Penalties
BB, I saw a lot of OL penalties last game as well. When I reviewed them, it appears that most came when the line play was NOT a ZB scheme. They tended to be gap/man blocking schemes and being downfield too soon. Both of those concepts are new to the Oline this year. Therefore I think they are still working on them and will get them under control by the start of the season. What do you think?
I've been saying the same thing
ever since I saw Orton play during the practice at Mile High. You could literally count to three “mississippi” and watch him jump. His mental alarm went off, he mechanics got sloppy and he threw to the first person he saw. I’ll admit, I was a little nervous but he has been progressively better and better each week.
I’d say the timing between him and the receivers is his biggest issue right now.
A problems Jake Plummer was never able to correct
Let’s hope that orton can, be stay away from assuming it. it may be more than just a bad habit, as we found with Plummer.
by rururuland784 on Sep 3, 2009 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
You're right
Orton has needed a decent QBs coach since he left Purdue. He’s got a lot of skills, but he’s got some bad habits as well.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
He (and Brandstater and Simms) certainly has one now
Evidently McDaniels’ method is to completely take a player apart and then put him back together again. It’s like learning to drive, in which the individual is concentrating on all the sub-actions that together constitute “driving a car”. And while he’s conscious of those details he’s tentative and mistake-prone, as Orton has been. I’d say McDaniels isn’t just teaching him an offensive system but is teaching him how to be a quarterback from the ground up, so that he’ll be a better quarterback in any system. Ditto for the other guys. Ditto for the defense if Nolan and the defensive position coaches are similar in that respect. McDaniels might have chosen them on that basis. And perhaps the decisive factor in his player evaluations and acquisitions is their coachability.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Yes and Tiller had something different there
Covering the ASU football team, there have been some interesting things regarding these bad habits.
A guy by the name of Brandon Bass, a running back, was a recruit who would explode into the hole decisively . As a college freshman he would hit the hole with the same zeal, but becuase the offensive line was so poor, he’d get punished.
A full year of that turned Bass into an indecisive back, a zig-zagger, a dancer. Now when that hole is there he doesn’t hit it— he doesn;t come close. At the QB position this gun-shy mentality is compounded by a myriad of factors.
I hope he can change his habits. I’m just saying with some of these guys it almost seems like the changes, the bad habit adaptations to preserve your body, go all the way down to the instinctual fight or flight level.
It’s a self-defense thing and even though I’m sure Plummer, just like Orton, had a full grasp of this from an intellectual perspective it was so rooted that he couldn’t change when the game was played at full speed.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Getting Social With MHR
Web Stuff
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
