The McDaniels Draft & Free Agency Strategy
I keep seeing 'What If' posts and mock drafts on this site. I'm sure that many of you feel that it is far too early to engage in these sort of discussions. I, however, actually enjoy the thought that these discussions seem to spark and further believe it helps me personally gain early knowledge about the propects comming out of college (I don't watch much college ball).
With my limited knowledge relating to current players comming out of college, I'll not be giving any draft predictions in the near future, as my thoughts simply wouldn't be worth much at this juncture. For the near future, I'm personally more interested in, and focused on, what sort of moves we should be able to expect during this off-season. We will never be able to even get the basics down exactly, as I'm not even sure the coaching staff yet knows. But I do believe we can get somewhat close in our projections and expectations if we first just focus on understanding Coach McDaniels' moves and motivations of last season.
I don't think it is a secret to any readers herein that there are some serious issues on both lines, and more specifically that the weak links lie in the middle three positions of each. Now that is not to say that I, nor that I think you believe we should (or even that we could) upgrade all six of those positions this year. Rather, I'm saying that we all likely understand that our ability to run the ball and stop the run was utterly pathetic late in the season, and that most would agree the solution to this begins with the interior linemen.
Having read many posts on here advocating a first round draft pick of Rolando McClain (ILB), it is apparent that many of you either think that he is just an amazing stud of LB that we just shouldn't pass up, or you believe Andra Davis is a problem in run stopping. My understanding is that McClain is a true leader and high in character and perhaps that is part of the equation also. I'm hoping to hear more on this issue. My own opinion is that the team should focus on interior linemen early in the draft and get younger elsewhere in latter rounds. I'd like to hear from those whose opinions differ.
As I elluded to to earlier, if our attempt is to semi-accurately predict the overall direction of this off-season, then I think it is important to understand what Coach did last year and even go so far as to assume we know why he went down those specifc avenues. So without getting too arrogant in pretending I can read minds, I'd like to just list a few items I believe Coach was going after last season (in no specific order).
1. High character, leaders. No surprise to any of you on this one, I'm sure. Exceptions may exist, but there was a very definate pattern of bringing in people who not only lead by example on and off the field, but are also smart enough to sort of coach and command on the field. Just ook at how much communicating our current defense does in the backfield. On the other side of that, look at Brian Dawkins' vocal leadership, the kind that demands accountability. The two are different kinds of leadership, although many of our guys seem to have both.
2. Positional draft depth. The first example that comes to mind is NT's and true five-teqnique DE's. They simply weren't deep, almost nonexistant last year, at least it seemed so. Many of us wanted Raji, but after him who was next? Ron Brace? And perhaps I'm being a little ignorant here, but can anybody name a couple more rookie NT's/DE's in a 3/4 (or 52) that got substantial playing time lthis year? Anyway, the point I'm hoping to make, is that we couldn't throw big money at every problem, so with weak draft depth at d-line.. Coach grabbed some free agents on the relative cheap to fill those holes. A stop gap until next year perhaps. I expect that his plan all along was to draft d-line this year.
3. Affordability in free agency. In my opinion, it was apparent to Coach that substantial changes were needed on both sides of the ball. Defensive upgrades were available in free agency perhaps moreso than offensive. So this defensive free agency frenzy in turn led to so many offensive draft choices. I believe this was his strategy all along. I believe he knew prior to draft day, prior to the last FA sgnees that he would draft more offense than people expected and go nuts in defensive free agency.
So what this means to me in summation, is that I believe Coach will again (a) choose areas to primarily focus on fixing. Last year it was the secondary. This year I believe it will be the interior linemen. He will then (b) decide where positional draft depth is at, where it is not at, then act in free agency accordingly.
I think it is also important to briefly mention the 'reaching' aspect of the draft. This is obviously frowned upon in nearly all circles, at least in black and white terms. But I believe Coach sees plenty of gray in this area. Let's remember how short of a board McDaniels widdles down to. For good or bad, he is certainly confident in his and his staffs ability to evaluate talent, and judging by the volume of offensive picks last year, he absolutely cares not what we think... only that he will eventually be judged by wins and losses. Let's also not forget that he like to move picks like he's trading baseball cards.
Anyway, wow. I should proably try to tie that all together, but I think my ADD just kicked in. My intent here was to articulate what I think McDaniels will base his drafting on this year, and that I believe he will again choose specific areas to address in frees agency, then focus on specific areas to draft for - this year I believe that to be the interior lines. I believe the approach itself and the strategy in drafting are both conscience decisions. I believe Coach does, at least to some degree draft for need and that he will again move around, both up and down, to draft those positions of need. I believe he will again pick to 'get younger' when the opportunity arises and draft those positions on a 'best available' basis in the later rounds.
I further believe that this year those positions of need (interior linemen) are more clear cut, and will be focused on nearly exclusively in the early picks. I'm hoping to hear your thoughts on those questions I broached earlier, your thoughts on draft/free agency strategy this year vs last year and I'm also hoping for any thoughts you might have on the following random questions:
If we draft a NT, which I completely advocate doing by early 2nd round, how easy might it be for Ronald to scoot over and be productive? He's got the size, but how easy is that position shift likely to be?
Assuming Casey sticks around this year, do we truly need to draft another center? Couldn't we wait, and wouldn't the guards be a far higher priority?
Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts, I look forward to hearing yours.
~Alex.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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C and OG are the positions I would most like to see an elite prospect added.
Fortunately these players often drop to late 1st/early 2nd. So there is a chance that we could grab an elite NT/ILB/CB/take your pick at #10/11, and still be able to pick up an elite Olineman a little later as well.
Timimus..point taken
Alex pointed toward the right area of concern for stopping the run, LB, but stopped. The 3 down linemen are there to clog things up, it is the LB’s job to make the stop. DJ makes alot of plays but is out of position alot also. Elvis is still learning. Check the tapes and you will see that the big runs go through these two guys. Andra Davis did a good job early but wore down and did not play well in the last four games.
- we must take Rolando McClain IMO.
You've summed it up well
when it comes to stopping the run.
What also helps our defense and their ability to stop the run, is to allow them to catch their breath on the sidelines, which is where drafting quality O-linemen comes in. I must admit I’m starting to get my hopes up on picking up the better prospects such as Maurkice Pouncey and Mike Iopati up.
The reason it’s tough to be anywhere near accurate in our predictions, is not just because we’re on the outside, but also because the draft will be combined with those veterans acquired through the FA pool.
If we bring in Ryan Pickett, those hoping for Dan Williams being drafted may be disappointed. If Logan Mankins comes in from NE, we may not see Mike Iopati wearing a Bronco uniform next year. If Brandon Marshall stays a Bronco, there may be no need for a Dez Bryant, although I’d love a Demaryius Thomas selection, since he’s better suited for the #1WR role. And so on and so forth…
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Wiegman is a little small for the power blocking scheme Denver seems to be heading towards
As it stands, he is our starting C for next year, but I think that if they pick up someone like Pouncey from Florida, he will start at C week 1.
Thanks for the comments!
Again, I’m far from being an authority on the subject thus far, but from the early looks of things it seems we could potentially skip over Dunlap and McClain to trade back in the draft then pick up a guy like Terrance Cody or Dan Williams for NT late in the first, then maybe grab a combination of two offensive linemen by middle of round two (after trading back, and assuming a Brandon Marshall trade we could easily end up with more than three picks in the first two rounds), like say Pouncey at center, then either Ducasse or Lupati as a very heavy guard.
Don't forget about Schef
Isn’t one of the guards that may be leaving gonna be a RFA also? Shanny in Washington will be interested due to the zone blocking. Schef should be worth a 3rd rounder and BMarssh should easily garner at least a single 1st rounder. We could end up with a lot of pics again this year, I woundn’t pass on McClain though.
It would make my day if we could get McClain at #10/11, Iupati with a late 1st from a Marshall trade and Pouncey with an early 2nd
That would be an A+++++++ draft
no matter who else we would pick up.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
That would be a wet dream for sure.
McDaniels will have the microscope on him with his second draft. Some are still out to luch with last years picks, I hope he has learned something from it.
by bfree2bronc on Jan 13, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
do they have the money to sign 3 high picks
because I would totally chip in if they’re a little short.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 3:37 PM MST up reply actions
Shanahan's salary is finally off the books now that he is in WAS...
This was assuming Marshall is traded so no need to pay him a lot of money. Hamilton and maybe Wiegman gone frees a little more. But to be honest I don’t know how much.
true that, but this year is going to be different without the cap
Who knows if they trim back salaries to help opperating margins. I don’t think so, but I’m not really sure all the crazy things that are going to happen without a cap.
I don’t know if we can stop paying Keary Colbert now and free up all that old dead cap money, if it was presently paid or just counted against the cap, I need to learn more about that stuff.
I guess my lesser-longwinded point would be, if they draft those 3, I’ll break off a couple Lincolns because that would be part of a good haul.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 6:33 PM MST up reply actions
I thought I read somewhere in the beginning of the season that McD’s strategy is to draft for talent, not need…
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Interesting question
I thought I read somewhere in the beginning of the season that McD’s strategy is to draft for talent, not need…
There’s a solid ’Yes, But.." on that one. Colinski has done a lot of great post/comments about how people try to draw an artificial line between these approaches, which each incorporates some of the other. I hope that you can get him to talk about it again or find some of his work – very helpful stuff.
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
BPA versus Need
I think what confuses people on this is that need is a category; not a value. Even granting that a player at a certain position could potentially help more, it’s impossible to pre-commit to taking someone based on position alone. I keep using the expression — ‘addressing a need isn’t meeting a need’ in the hope that it will finally dawn on people that taking a player who isn’t very good at a desired position gives you one more inadequate player.
I think all this becomes more understandable when scouting is expressed in terms of absolute magnitudes rather than ordinal rankings. I generally dislike condensing more information into less but it allows people to make intra-position comparisons. Big Boards also do this. The downside is that it spurs people to ignore positional consideration and become value misers, which becomes irrelevant if you later cut all the value you’ve saved.
no goats, no glory.
The Bronco draft group..
McDaniels/Xanders/Kidd has a philosopy of drafting the best player available..at need. Otherwards if the BPA is LT then no they would not.
ahhh
thanks for clearing that up all
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Touche.
But I feel like the only limitation to drafting for both talent AND need, is imagination. With the apparent confidence McDaniels has in his ‘short list’ and the way he moves draft choices like chess pieces, I think he feels that he can trade up and/or down to draft in a position that gets him talent AT a position of need.. without reaching. Just my opinion.
The Short list was last year
He did say in one of the season ending press conferences that they did that because of the limited time that they had in preparing for the draft. That was due to the firing of the Goodmans. He came right out and said that the FO and the scouts weren’t all on the same page. I think reading the tea leaves a little bit that one of the things he ended up being unhappy about was Schleuter. It seems to me that even last year he was looking at upgrading center for the long term but they didn’t get it right.
by Fan in Exile on Jan 13, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I bet he was so pissed...
that he didn’t get to HC for us with Nalen…at any point in his career. God I miss the Orange Hush.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Nice Post
Rec;d, I voted for nose tackle i was one who wanted Raji last year. Nothing against Fields he just doesnt command the double teams and getting a nt who did would be a game changer
Thanks!
I voted NT, also. Terrance Cody is 6’5 365. That’s a monster NT. He projects to be a 2nd rounder because he’s only a two-down run stopper. But that’s exactly what we need. I would think that with Cody in the middle, Fields should be able to shift over to give us an upgrade at DE also.
We need work on the offensive line, but a portion of that IMO is due to the switch out of the zone blocking scheme. Part of it is due to injuries. So some of that should fix itself after another year in the new system and with a healthier group.
No way Cody drops out of round 1 with so many 3-4 teams in the NFL. He won’t make it past San Diego in the late 20s.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
SD
Wont Draft that fat lard. He’ll fall out of the first round completely.
I should add that interior offensive linemen is the only decent position with strength in FA
It's hard to argue the fact that he does look like a 'tub of lard'
but, taking one look at Wilfork doesn’t make me at first sight think he is a football player…But he is. The word on Cody is that he might have trouble with his weight and work out regimen. Maybe some money changes his mind.
Wilfork
Moves like he weighs 300 pounds, all the good NTs do. Cody already comes out on 3rd downs in college. The guy already plays about 25 snaps a game, worthless if you ask me.
like the return of Gilbert Brown...
didn’t we show the league way back in 1997 that an NT that can’t play every down without getting winded is completely useless to the point of being counterproductive? We ran up the gut all the time one that “tub of lard” and got our first trophy for the effort.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
if you ever think money motivates people, wait, the motivation will wear off
There’s never enough money if money is what it takes to motivate someone. (long term)
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 14, 2010 4:26 PM MST up reply actions
.........only after we get some size at center and left guard.
Good lord. I’d hate to see Weigmann and Hamilton try and take on a dude who is close to a quarter ton. “Try” being the key word in that sentence. We all saw how size made them look like amateurs (Ngata and Hampton, etc.). He’d eat Knowshon for lunch. Actually, more like an afternoon snack.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 13, 2010 7:26 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
NO WAY
The Chargers have a great NT who wants to play one more year in Jamal Williams, and a backup who they found at a car rental agency.
I wouldnt take Cody in the late second, you just know that guy will show up to camp at 400 pounds.
heh
if SD took him it’d be very apparent that Al isn’t our only ‘with-enemies-like-these…’ in the division…
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Alex..another good point
The problem with Cody is what you state "two downs’ and does not have the strength/stamina to continue. When the teams run ‘no huddle’ against the Broncos today, Andra Davis becomes a liability because of cover skills. Could Cody lose 30lbs and become an elite player, who knows. Remember Warren Sapp was 300lbs but very strong. That is what I am looking for in the draft. A DL that can press 225 30 times.
Rodney, after watching Raji get pushed around, run around and just look lost on more than a few plays, I believe he would have been a liability to our defense. I believe a good DE would be more in the realm of what is needed. Peterson disappeared late in the year.
I do not believe in Cody in any way, shape or form. I would rather look for a Jay Ratliff type. Not the biggest, but the biggest problem causer because of strength and speed. Another Rubin Carter type or Don Latimer type. Cody would be had by any team with a smart coach and OC who would go to the quick no-huddle and destroy him for the game by making him work his a$$ off in the 1st half with no breaks. He would be useless in the 2nd half of the game ala Gilbert Brown the ex GB fatso.
There is big and then there is fat and out of shape. Cody is fat and out of shape. Useless.
I would love McClain and either Iupati or Pouncey if Denver has more than one 1st rounder. I don’t think either Iupati or Pouncey will make it to the 2nd round. If so I would trade up to get the one that is left. I think both would start by the end of training camp.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
I thought that way too
Then I watched Alabama use him as a lead blocker on offense and now I would be okay with getting him. You simply don’t do that with a NT who has conditioning concerns.
by Fan in Exile on Jan 13, 2010 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
heh I should've kept reading...
I knew someone else would think of Gilbert
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Good information
I must admit that I also wanted Raji, but I too watched him looking out of his element in GB this year.
You mean Ratliff as a NT? I realize it’s certainly not all about how much they weigh, but it sounds to me like Coach McD wants to get bigger in the trenches. What do you think of Dan WIlliams out of Tennessee?
Who would you compare McClain to?
High character. My favorite lie at MHR
Of Denver’s rookies in 2009 that were on the active roster vs KC.
Ayers – arrested and suspended in college for assault.
Colquitt – arrested and kicked off Tennessee football team for TWO DUIs
Baker – kicked of Penn State for an arrest
Quinn – arrested as a member of the Broncos for domestic violence (I believe these charges were recently dismissed).
Of course high character guys like Eddie Royal and Payton Hillis disappeared under McDaniels this season, while Marshall had his best year as a pro… Just some more evidence that McDaniels features his “high character guys”.
McDaniels will draft the best players for his system, but if character is his #1 priority as is so often haphazardly pushed at MHR, then McDaniels has a strange way of evaluating and utilizing the so called "good guys".
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
You are probably right about the Character thing McGeorge...
The one thing that does stand out for those guys though was there ability to understand the ramifications of what they did and move on past the issue and improve themselves. Quinn is the only exception there I think, but, I really don’t know about the details around the supposed domestic violence. (Didn’t Clarence Kay have this issue?)
So maybe it’s that they show they are teachable and willing to do more when asked. Just a guess my part.
These are things I would look at: Talent/skill, growth potential (physically and mentally) and then I would ask if the man will fit in and work with the players we have.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
He's not right
Neither Baker nor Colquitt were drafted and there’s a huge difference in taking a UDFA with some questions who will be on a short leash than spending a high pick on a guy which makes you stuck with character problems. The dig at Quinn is just unreasonable too, McDaniels clearly tries to get high character guys but that doesn’t mean that they’re never going to screw up, the fact that the charges were dropped makes his presence on this list laughable.
Go through the draft and look at how many of the guys were team captains or leaders on the field and you’ll see the type of character that McDaniels is going for.
Eddie Royal and Payton not getting numbers is also pretty meaningless you just cherry picked two guys on an offense that was struggling and decided they were high character guys who should be featured. Remember he benched Marshall so character clearly matters there, unless you want him to have the same type of doghouse that Shanny had, and never use Marshall even when he’s behaving.
by Fan in Exile on Jan 13, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
Two undrafted FAs and two high round picks. Makes a pretty even list too an objective eye.
The character thing is coach speak and nothing else. McDaniels wants to win and if guys like Cutler and Marshall made Denver a Championship team, they’d be here.
If character guys like Royal, Hillis, Champ, etc don’t help make McDaniels a winner, they’ll be gone in a heartbeat.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Since you left out all of the team captains
I’m not buying the objective observer part. At the same time you can’t count Quinn like I said.
McDaniels brought in something like 30 guys last year, no they weren’t all perfect. But there’s a fine line between bringing in character guys and being a judgmental ass who smears a guy based on one incident.
Of course they’ll be gone if they can’t help us when that’s the whole goal of football. He’s not putting together a monastery for crying out loud.
by Fan in Exile on Jan 13, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
The think the point Exile is making is that you wouldn't draft a player in the early rounds with character issues.
We all have issues in life, but we don’t go out on a shooting spree. Just like Baker he probably came from a place where you had to stand up for yourself and it followed him to college. We don’t know what happened there and he probably acted on instincts, just like I used to do.
by bfree2bronc on Jan 13, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions
Folks are missing some facts
Not trying to pile on you, McG, just getting the story complete.
Baker was promised that for making an agreement that he’s done something – an agreement that he did not feel was accurate, but was being pushed to plead out – that he would have not trouble have trouble with and would stay on the team. He was shortly after terminated as OTL did a smear piece that included him. There is nothing but some unsubstantiated rumors as far as his conduct, so none of us will ever know what did happen. By the way, the part regarding his agreement with his school didn’t come from him – it came from and was substantiated by his high school coach. You can read here for yourself here.
Quinn has held since Day I that he did nothing but try to protect his baby from a mother who was under the influence and potentially violent. All charges were dropped.
Ayers – Did some lousy things as a younger man and made a very aggressive attempt to turn his life around. He’s been open as to his mistakes and has, to everything that we can know, put them behind him. What part of rehabilitation is bad? He was a punk as a frosh and sophomore, got in trouble and turned his life around. As far as I’m concerned, that’s what character is.
I don’t know any thing about Colquitt, so I won’t comment. As far as the other three, Congratulations to each of you for stepping up and getting (or in Quinn’s case, holding) your lives together. I just thought that both sides should come out.
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
by Doc Bear on Jan 13, 2010 6:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Is that a Mike Vick joke?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 13, 2010 7:49 PM MST up reply actions
That's funny because I do have a pic of him and German Shepard.
I just can’t get the copy and paste to work on here anymore. Not since the format was changed.
Mike Vick in a picture with a hound. Nice.
The mental imagery is enough for me to chuckle, still.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 13, 2010 8:38 PM MST up reply actions
“These are things I would look at: Talent/skill, growth potential (physically and mentally) and then I would ask if the man will fit in and work with the players we have.”
These are the things 31 NFL teams look at every draft.
The character thing is NOTHING more than coach speak you hear from most teams.
The 32 team… Well the Raiders just look at a player’s 40 time.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
So would you agree,
that what the coaches really mean is “His flaws don’t distract from the mission of the team”. Instead of “he’s a high character guy”.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Wow, McG..
I know you became an MHR star over the last few weeks of the season and I congratulate you for that, but your emotions seem to be getting the best of you again. You couldn’t be more wrong on this one.
Character is not just ‘coach speak’ – it’s one of the most crucial elements of building a successful team. Period. Especially when you’re dealing with an entire league full of young, Alpha-males who have been idolized their whole lives and have high-risk behavioral tendencies (ie – sure you’ll have some troublemakers, as every team does, but the goal is to build a team with both character AND talent – neither are good enough to win a championship alone).
"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty
by SteveAssassin on Jan 16, 2010 5:07 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed
the goal is to build a team with both character AND talent – neither are good enough to win a championship alone
That’s very true.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
MHR star?
I didn’t know those existed. And McG’s been around a bit longer than that…
Anyway you’re kinda right:
Especially when you’re dealing with an entire league full of young, Alpha-males who have been idolized their whole lives and have high-risk behavioral tendencies
This statement belies the real point—it’s not a matter of avoiding players with ‘character issues’ when those players are the ones that make up the majority, not the minority. I always hate it every year ‘round this time when the MSM starts up the ’character issues’ mantra with regards to certain players, when they should be touting those rare few who are stand-up guys.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
High character
Colquitt – his DUI’s were maybe the reason he didn’t make the team, after outkicking Kern in pre season. Now he’s back after a year of no problems (I assume).
Baker – got involved in a scuffle when he tried to help a friend. He ran into Penn State’s new tough love policy instituted after other athletes had caused huge problems. Joe Paterno tried hard to keep him.
Quinn – his dv arrest being dismissed says a lot. It is extremely difficult to get a dv charge flat out dismissed. As a criminal defense attorney, I can say that.
Ayers – I don’t know what happened there, but he seems to be an OK guy.
War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles
This is the excuse machine I’m used to seeing here.
Or maybe drafting high character guys is not priority #1 for McDaniels. Me thinks his #1 goal is to draft good FOOTBALL players that will fit into his system. You get paid to win in the NFL, not produce roll models.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
I don't think anybody said that drafting high character players was McDaniels' #1 priority
I believe it to be a piece of the formula he looks for though. I also don’t think you can judge each and every player by one particular infraction. In truth, high character, locker room leaders and on-field commanders exist… even ones who’ve had one arrest.
It seems you sort of speak of a sort of ‘one strike and your character sucks and you will never be a leader’ policy. I don’t think it’s that cut and dried. That’s what interviews and homework are for.
I don't know if it has to be so black & white
It’s not like comparing what Baker did in college to Pacman Jones. I would have to think you have to throw out the odd mistake people have made off the top, unless it’s super serious) and instead look for patterns of problems. Everyone makes a screw up in college but it’s the repeat offenders that you’d want to be wary of.
Maybe I’m interpretting character differently though because sometimes it sounds as if “High Character” guys are words for leaders, smart, accountable, punctual… ya know those other character qualities.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
How is Emmett point out the fact an "excuse machine" McG???
… and by the way, it’s role models, not roll models. Roll models is what we are talking about when we watch Alabama’s Terrance Cody run the 40 without his shirt on… ;-)
uh
Why do you even list Quinn if you know the charges got dismissed. The girl was hitting him with a phone, he pushed her away, grabbed the girl, and locked himself in a bedroom. I mean, come on.
I wasn’t wrong about our draft or Alphonso Smith. Wasn’t wrong about players tuning McDaniels out when the loses started to mount.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
McG
’phonse looked good before his ankle problems, you must admit.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Character...
spend much time around athletes and you’ll realize that finding a player with..say…TD or Mike A-type character is like a needle in a haystack. It’s how the current college and high-school environments condition them. When even D-III athletes strutt around their campus like they’re above all laws, what do you expect of those who ‘know’ they’re going in the first round?
In case you haven’t been on a college campus in a few decades here’s a good example of what I mean. A friend’s brother just graduated from PLU out in Tacoma last year. The kid is mildly big for a non-pro—over 6’, probably ~200 lbs. Definitely all muscle. He could (and did) out-lift anyone on either of their football team’s lines, and how do you think they treated him (or anyone else, for that matter) when they went to lift? Yeah, like the entitled douche-bags you’d expect from people who look to be making millions playing football someday, not some joke D-III players who aren’t as strong as a kid who works out to stay in shape.
I agree with you, McG, to a point. I just think that ‘character’ is next-to-non-existent in our current athletic climate.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Did you mean role models?
Anyway, you can complain about an “excuse machine” if it pleases you, but the fact is that your assertion that four players have character problems is pretty weak. And when you consider that you are talking about four out of over 60 players………..
War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles
Replying to McGeorge's "excuse machine" comment just above
I forgot to hit the reply button.
War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles
Many thought that McD choked the pooch with the A Smith pick
trading this years 1st for a 2nd @37. This may be the case as Smith wasn’t the impact type player you would expect out of a #1 especially when Sean Smith and Rey Mauluga were still on the board at that time. This year is different and he has his big board up and running as of last december, so I’ll give him the benefit of not having enough time to really evaluate the players to need. Now we know in a sense of what areas need to be addressed. ILB is one of them we have to look at since we got run over so many times and McClain is the type of player that can pass defense and run stop. At 11 he would be a great pick.
I’m not sold on the idea that we really need a stud at NT and we might have the guy in waiting in Chris Baker. Fields and Thomas were very good but not elite as far as collapsing the pocket. They were successful on occasion but not so much so as they should have been. The draft has more to choose from this year in Dan Williams and Cody. Not sure if McD would go after one of these guys with the 11th pick.
Dez Bryant is an elite type WR and might be a good pick here, especially if Marshall is gone. McD might want to wait until the 3rd or 4th round to pick one up though.
Guard and Center will be addressed in the 2nd thru 4th rounds and Iupati might not be there then unless we pick up another first and grab in then. I see McD taking a player like McClain first, I’m not sure any other pick would make much sense that early. We’ll see.
I remember
that a lot of people were concerned about Mauluga… that wasn’t the no-brainer pick that it now appears to be in hindsight.
Seems like the analyst (Mayock and others) had him in the middle first round
if my memory serves me right. Does it seem like Somoan (even though he is from here) players play with a higher level of motor? Like they have something to prove or something?
I stayed in american Samoa for sometime, its very laid back, but can turn violent in a second. The people their are very hardworking.
Mauluga still comes out in nickel, so I understand why he dropped. Actually ILBs have been dropping in recent drafts in general. Pass ruhers, OTs, and corners are the sexy picks these days it seems.
'poly' culture
They grow up with a warrior ethic and sports are given a special significance in their culture. This not a racial theory, however. This singular significance on sports could be critiqued because proportionately fewer of them aspire to other professions.
no goats, no glory.
Talking about character issues.
Would anyone be adverse to picking Brandon Spikes who was suspended for trying to gouge another players eye out. maybe, maybe not. Did he recognize the error of his way and do something to rectify it?
and what's the RB from Oregon? Blount? Who punched that dude after the Boise State game
People lose their cool in the moment sometimes (haynseworth). Not that I would draft Blount, but there’s a fine line between the heat of the battle, plain stupid, and criminal.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
True, I'm a Boise St fan and said WTF after the incident happened.
I could see why they might have been a little frustrated seeing they were heavily favored to beat the Broncos in their house. Oregon didn’t have a 1st down until the middle or late 3rd qtr. Even though the score was 19-8? The margin of victory was way more than that, the Broncos defense dominated the game. I would love to know what the player said to him to get him so upset.
Maybe he said something about his Mama?
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 13, 2010 4:30 PM MST up reply actions
it must have been bad, on top of OR getting beat the whole game
I was watching that game (because I love anything Broncos) and said WTF. On the replay you could see that the Boise St. player taunted Blount and he totally lost his mind.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 13, 2010 6:19 PM MST up reply actions
I thought it was racial at the time...
nothing to substantiate that, though :p
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Interior Oline is priority 1....
He’s been hidden from us, so I don’t know…but I’d like to see what Chris Baker has before we drop a high first rd pick on a NT. I say we go McClain because we need to groom a leader to take over when Bdawk leaves, or Dez Bryant if we do keep our top pick. I’d prefer to trade down a bit, and hopefully pick up either Pouncey, or Iupati or both depending on a potential BM trade.
We have other holes, but a great Oline covers a multitude of sins. Any QB can excel when given enough time, abt RB can run for 100yds/gm when given big enough holes, and our defense is definitely good enough to dominate if we can sustain drives and keep them fresh.
#1 priority = ?
It’s certainly up there with DL but what does being the #1 priority mean? I’m not disagreeing with you but I wanted to make a point on this. Identifying needs is part of the entire process. Teams conduct end-of-year reviews as part of an evaluation process but knowing that you have a weakness is not the same thing as having a plan to fix that weakness.
The crux of my point here is that designating the OL as the #1 priority might lead to several courses of action. For one, we might not want to rely on the draft because of the uncertainty involved and instead trade for a OC/OC. We might also become active in the UFA market and find help for the OL. It could also led to adapting our draft strategy — for instance — and targeting an OL at a certain point in the draft.
I hope we draft Pouncey along with an OT/OG type like Ducasse and add one versatile quality interior-OL through free agency. Much will depend on whether we trade Marshall, et al. And I’m willing to accept partial solutions if we can obtain other high-value players at other positions. I see other needs, too. If we go into the draft with our current allotment of picks then we’ll have trouble drafting a lot of help for the OL, so it may be a multi-year project.
no goats, no glory.

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