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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Tales from the SunnySide: Team Building 2010

Team Building 2010


I have a confession to make. I love the draft.

To me, it's both Christmas and birthday, rolled into one. Optimally, the general manager and the head coach combine with every scout, position coach and assistant to pick out my presents for me, and I can't wait to get a chance to play with them. It's a great time to consider the issues of strategy and tactics, to review one's own way of viewing the game and the concepts of team-building. It's an opportunity to watch the front office carefully and to pick up ideas about how your own team views these same ideas. In short, it's a heck of a chance to debate, theorize, argue, bloviate and pontificate. It's two of the most enjoyable days of the NFL calender year, back to back. In many ways, there's nothing like it.

Perhaps my favorite part of the draft is one that gets relatively little press. To draft well as a team - as well as to do well in free agency - you have to have your priorities clear in terms of which positions are the most important to you. It's the game of 'How do you Rebuild' - even though few teams will use that term.

The Denver Broncos are in a unique situation. While they do not accept of the idea of 'rebuilding', and still don't believe in using the term, Josh McDaniels was comfortable saying during the 2009 training camp, "We're not a Super Bowl team". He was right, they weren't and aren't: changing that for the better is the entire point of the offseason and draft experience. MHR members like Colinski can give us chapter and verse on the concepts of draft strategy and I won't waste time echoing (poorly) their understanding. However...The simple issue here is that we have to get better and free agency and the draft are generally the ways that you do that. I'll lump the college free agency in with the draft to make this all easier. So, what's our theory on which positions are the most important in our version of 'improving' (I'll use that, since the 'R' word is verboten).

Where are the Broncos this year in their preparations? Simple - much further along. To quote Frank Schwab in the Colorado Springs Gazette:

"Denver's draft preparation will be different, McDaniels said. He said last year the front office didn't get a full opportunity to evaluate college players because he was hired in January. This year, the Broncos already have preliminary draft rankings after scouting players during the season.

"That's something that we didn't get to last year until late February or early March," McDaniels said. "We're months in advance of that. We've got a really good idea of what we want to look for and the kind of players we're looking for."

 

Star-divide

There is a deeper issue here that is a key to what players you consider and which you choose. The way that you perceive the team in football and the way that you look at how to build a better team will be reflected in your choices for drafting in each round. There are those who believe that since 'This is a quarterback driven league', the first thing that you need is a quarterback. I'm not that that school, although I will agree that you need a very good QB to win the Lombardi Trophy - I just disagree with many opinions about when you want to obtain 'the guy'. There are many factors that come into it but, for me, none is as important as this: The game is won and lost in the trenches. It always has been and it always will be. That's an area where Denver fell down during this season and they can't afford to let that happen again. so, for me, I'm going to build the offensive line as my first priority, look at the defensive ability to stop the run as my second concern, then move to the secondary. I tend to add most of the 'skill' positions the later stages. By the way - this is not carved into stone for me. If I get a chance at a guy who I feel will change the game for years, I'll make a change. However - like everyone, I do have my own feelings on the game of team-building.

 


The Game of Team Building

John Madden loved to play the game called 'Team Building'. It's a mental exercise in which you assume that you're starting from zero and trying to create a team - given that situation, what position(s) do you fill first, second, etc. He mentioned it several times on the air, he was said to be fond of passing time by playing it and he wrote about it on at least one occasion. He believed that you build a winner by starting by having a great offensive line and then, next, settling your cornerbacks. Everything else when from there. Obviously, if you can fix a lot of things at the same time, you do that to the best of your ability. But every fan, manager or coach will have preferences, even prejudices - carefully thought-out or not. It can be helpful to discuss and debate your own to improve your understanding of the process.

I'm without question an O-line first kind of guy. I might go with a NT and/or DEs (in a 3-4) before I went to the CBs, but in general, I don't have much to argue with Big John about. Cornerbacks are essential - in the right scheme and at the right time. If you argue that they come right behind the O-line, I don't argue much. Everyone has a theory - I've also heard the QB first theory, the linebackers theory and various others. It's a great chance to learn by arguing the different approaches. But when it comes the the #1 issue, to me it's the O-line.

In the Broncos case, it's obvious that the offensive line developed problems that could not be foreseen (although expecting another season like 2008, where every O-lineman played nearly every down was unlikely) and that after Champ Bailey, the 2008 Broncos had little at CB. Unfortunately, we also were so weak in many other areas that even starting to establish a winning team was rough. Going into this year's draft, we have another chance to play the game of 'Team Building'. I'd make the approach unusually simple. It's my own perspective that how you use the draft is an extension of how you feel about the basic idea of team-building. How you go about accumulating the pieces will vary greatly from person to person and coach to coach. But our first issues is to improve the middle - offense and defense.

Let me be clear about exactly what I mean by this: I'm not suggesting that we avoid the so-called 'skill' positions in the 2010 draft. I understand the advantages of a fast receiver as well as anyone. I also realize that the secondary is aging, for example (nice job on fixing that in the last year, but some older players must be accounted for, and that we can improve at nearly every position, but you have to establish clear priorities in order to develop a winning strategy. Free agency and the draft are your biggest methods of development.

In this case, it's probably no surprise that I think that means drafting/acquiring for the lines (on offense, especially the center - the tip of the spear, predominantly the center and guard positions). Denver wasn't strong there when it had to be. Winning, especially winning in the playoffs, requires that we improve in those areas. Following them, I have several other concerns, as do we all, I'm sure.

Josh McDaniels own way of going about this is still a comparative mystery, but let's fact it - there are things that we do know about how he'd like to build the team as well as many that we don't. What do we know? Let's look at that first, move on to life's mysteries and also look at each position.


Quarterback

What about the big question, that one that we will argue about right up until the end of the draft? That question is, will/should Denver draft a QB, perhaps in Round 1? I don't believe that they will, and I think that they'll be right in going in a different direction. My reasons might surprise you, though. It's not because I think that Orton is necessarily the best long-term option. I like Orton a lot, but that's not the argument. In fact, far from it.

If you want my arguments you can read them in far more interesting format by clicking on Jeremy Bolander's First Up: Quarterback, the first in his series on positional stability indexing.

There are also a couple of simple things that I think we can agree on. One is that right now, we're not a Super Bowl team. That being the case, we need to put our energies into getting ready to be one. Eventually, I want to see nearly every position bettered. There's an issue of sequence here, however. There should be a reason for the choices that goes well beyond the 'I like X player' approaches. There will be not shortage of good, even great options in this year's draft. The issue, as always, is which among them will strengthen our team the most.

An example: We know that Orton is a very good QB when he has enough time. No, he's not Tom Brady, and no, he's not Peyton Manning. Those two will probably be first ballot hall of Fame QBs and demanding that everyone else -- anyone else -- be them is a bit pointless. Orton, healthy and with good protection, is a 90+ QB rating, 65% completion rate QB. He's not the most exciting QB on the planet but he's a very qualified, smart, tough, leader of men. If he was the biggest weak link on the team, I'd be eager to look to a 1st round QB, but that's not the case by any stretch. Having a good QB will never make your O-line better. Having a better O-line will make your QB better, though. More time to throw means more completions. Equally, a better running game, via better blocking, will also improve the output from the QB position.

Equally, I think that it's important to consider that our offense does take at least two years to master. Finding a backup QB who has some familiarity with similar systems is one approach. Finding a backup who is only there until Tom Brandstater is ready to be the full-time backup is also reasonable. Those who dislike Orton or who simply feel that he is near the top of his possible improvement will argue that drafting a QB this year and starting his training is the best route to go will feel that to be the best solution. Each approach has weaknesses and each has potential strengths.


The Offensive Line

As I said, to me this is the gist of the circumstance. I think that the basis for a successful team starts, regardless of other factors, on the offensive line. You can't run the ball or protect the passer without quality players there, and with Casey Wiegmann aging and Ben Hamilton, fine man that he is and player that he was is fading, Ryan Harris gimpy and both Hochstein and Polumbus less than effective, we have to replenish the interior of the O-line while making sure that - to the best of our abilities - we also have enough tackles. It's a tall, tall order. But, it's also essential. Happily, we have both free agency and the draft to accomplish it.

We know that our O-line dropped off sharply and surprisingly in 2009 over the 2008 season. Ben Hamilton was benched for lack of production, Casey Wiegmann didn't play as well. Russ Hochstein wasn't the answer and Hamilton was also supposed to be our backup center. Tyler Polumbus didn't play as well as we needed him to and needs to be replaced if possible. There was a reversion to the mean.

The result was that the QB position and the running game - keys to the offense that Josh McDaniels is establishing - both took a huge hit. If you bring in another QB and leave him with the much same problems, you're going to have pretty much the same outcome. A rookie QB behind a shaky O-line is a disaster waiting to manifest. If you're going to reach for a new QB, with all the perils that such a decision entails, you want to have a line that will let the player give you the best chance to winning. It makes better sense to establish the line, see how the QB plays with that group of players and make an informed decision based on that information, rather than taking a leap of faith on the QB position and then trying to figure out how to protect him and get a running game up and moving. Doing whatever needs doing to redevelop a dominant offensive line will make almost every part of the offense better. To me, this is Job 1 for 2010.

We can see certain things about Josh McDaniels that don't match - quite - what he did in New England. For example, it's starting to be obvious that Josh McDaniels wants bigger, more powerful players (especially on the lines) and that while we will continue to run the zone blocking scheme, it won't predominate like it had. Bringing in Matt McChesney at guard (if he showed that skill level) would add a quick 30 lb to the roster. If Dustin Fry has the skills, he's also a huge man at 326. If you consider that the players they might replace (and this is only speculative - I have no idea if they have the skillsets), it would replace Casey Wiegmann at 285 and Hochstein/Hamilton at 290/305 with an additional 70-90 lb of irritable O-line. That's a fast way to get your team bigger. I don't know the level of talent - you can't really judge by practice squad time or rotation, and they may not be starter material - but that's a lot of player size.

Players in the physical mold of JD Walton and Matt Tennant at center and Mike Iupati and Vladamir Ducasse at guard are, to me, the biggest need that we have. Do I demand one of those players? No. That's just the general mold - much bigger than what we've had, quick enough to pull, strong enough to dominate. McD wants them as big as he can get and still use the gap (with a pulling guard) plays that he likes. I understand that we probably won't use our 2 highest draft picks on both a guard and a center, but we should consider at the least obtain one or the other of those positions in the first three rounds if we can't address them both in free agency or unless McD and whoever our O line coach turns out to be can agree that one of the players I just listed will fill the bill well enough to start in Year 1. Which players, exactly, is dependent on a lot of information that I don't have, as well as some that I do. I don't know enough to make a firm recommendation, not that the Broncos management is waiting for my opinion ;-).

As an example of that kind of missing information that I'm referring to - we are moving to a different scheme of blocking than we have used in the past. While I, like anyone who watches film, can easily identify this as a weakness during the 2009 season, I'm not sure that I fully understand what the final outcome that McD has in mind might be. For that reason, grading the individual college players is a fun exercise, but ultimately flawed. That doesn't indicate that it's a useless exercise, of course - quite the opposite. The more we debate, the more everyone learns. I just don't know exactly what the tradeoff between size and agility (for example), when required, should be. We don't know exactly what the HC wants - just the general outlines. That will always make mock drafting much more difficult.

We know, for example, that Denver seems to be looking to trade in favor of some size on the lines and are willing to let some agility go if that's needed to get bigger. I'm actually in favor of this tradeoff, much as that might surprise some folks. For years, Denver has worn down late in games and late in the season. San Diego, on the other hand, has one of the best records in the NFL in November and December (there are many reasons for this, but a couple of big lines seems to help). To compete, we need a bigger, stronger line on both sides of the ball and especially on offense.


Defensive Line

There were a few nice surprises here last season. Ryan McBean has showed that he can play in this league and was generally quite good at LDE. Ron Fields played well, despite being light for the traditional NT position. Vonnie Holliday was a nice surprise, but Le Kevin Smith wasn't as good as the fans generally seemed to expect (ditto the coaches).

I don't know if J'Vonne Parker can ever take the place at NT or challenge Ron Fields (or rotate with him) but at 338 lb, he's going to be a lot of fella to run around at the very least. Chris Baker at 326 lb? We don't know much about his skill level right now although he seemed quick and tough in his preseason stints. It will be an interesting training camp, but he's big, very quick and with Wayne Nunnely's training, he might be a very good player. Can he come on in the second year?

How about Carton Powell? After one year on IR and one on the practice squad, is it finally time for him to make a move to DE? He's smaller, compared to a lot of our potential players - only 312 lb, but that's about as big as Marcus Thomas, whose name always comes up in discussions of who might play DE. I thought that Kenny Peterson was giving great effort, but I think that he's just a little small (6'3", 295) for where this team is going. Le Kevin Smith was, frankly, a disappointment and Vonnie Holliday was usually very good. I hope that he'll be back, but the skill level of the players that we didn't see much of this year - Baker, Powell and of course, IRPS player Everette Pedescleaux are all possibles with a little training and experience, at least on the scout team.

So, will we also go to the draft and/or FA for more DL players? I'm not taking a simple out, but that will depend on two things - how well our aforementioned players are coming along and who is available at what value. One thing is sure - it's nice to have options, and we certainly have them. Getting those long, late-season runs stopped is essential.


The Inside Linebacker

I believe that the ILB can roughly be considered as part of the defensive 'line' in the 3-4/5-2 variation that Denver ran during the 2009 season. In other words, since the NT and DEs are doing a lot of clogging and taking up O-line players, the ILBs have to be stout at the point of attack and effective at penetration in order for the scheme to work (while the OLB's set the edges, attack the QB and grab any running backs). Andra Davis as an ILB came out of the chute as if he was on fire and yet he seemed to have leveled out to some extent after the bye week. I love the man's humility, willingness to work, strength of character and powerful leadership, but he isn't the kind of ILB that we need to have starting to make the next step. That's going to be high on the list. We don't have much on the PS or IR that that position. Our only PS player at LB is Kelley Braxton, a 230 lb LB. Still - if you look at what Dannell Ellerbe is doing at LB in Baltimore, Braxton could a possible at ILB. He wouldn't be playing next to Ray Lewis in Denver, though, and he's pretty light. Time will tell.

I don't even know what to think about DJ, and I consider him to be one of the most promising and yet confusing players that we have. Was it that questionable change to a read-and-react defense during the losses that made him look bad? Was he really that far out of position that often? Sadly - yes, at times he was. I don't think that he is in the 'must replace' group, but we should also be looking at how to deal with the fact that in two seasons in a row, DJ has ended up by under-performing. It may simply be a factor of changing positions and responsibilities too often, but this wasn't a great year for him, despite leading the team in tackles. Again - after a great start, he seemed to fade for a series of games, and so did our chances.

What to do? One obvious option is to bring on the best young ILB that we can afford, given our other issues - we like them bigger than the norm, too, so getting one with speed on his feet and within his head is also essential. Roland McCain and Brandon Spike are the ones that come to mind, but there are other good options that will come to light. They appear to be of similar size, McClain has a better track record as far as behavior. As I say - there are other good ones out there. It's too easy to just list the top players and to assume that we didn't have a good draft if we don't have a nice share of them. That's never been true. Whoever we go with, FA or draft, we need to upgrade this position. To me, it's one of the big priorities.

I'd be interested to see if Spencer Larsen could be that player, but he seems fixed at fullback and special teams. He does an excellent job in both roles and that may to be something to mess with. He hasn't had the time on the field for me to feel like I can determine that, although I'm impressed with his special teams play. Larsen is a unique talent: he seems like someone who will be good in nearly any capacity but who may not be 'great' in any one. You want a lot of guys like him on your team. We have needed to improve our special teams play and he's one player who can help us out there. Can he help at ILB? Perhaps - but we need someone full time or at least in a full time rotation.


Outside Linebacker

How about our outside linebackers? It's always helpful to upgrade, but I don't see this as the same level of need. Robert Ayers will, in my opinion, continue to progress. Watching him on film, I thought that he did a far better job than some other folks did. Darrell Reid has had one 'fair to good' season for us: Elvis Dumervil and Mario Haggan were a lot better than that. D. Reid has never played at this position before and seemed to make an impact reasonably often. Perhaps he's improved enough to keep him there - that's something for someone who has the time and setup to follow him on every play, week 1 to week 17 and to see what the improvement is like. Ayers, overall did a nice job for a rookie year, contrary to some who want more highlights from him. My impression is that he learned visibly over the season and will be even better next year. I'd still love more upgrades, though. Haggan was a good player - whoever can come in an fight for a slot in the rotation will have to beat someone out. I like that. Over the years I've noticed that when you have a few players who are locks at their positions, sometimes you don't have that much behind them. We need both stars and depth.

Josh Barrett and Wesley Woodyard are good special teams/nickel LB players, with Barrett able to play an acceptable SS/LB hybrid for nickel and dime packages. That doesn't scream out to me as much as I'd like. I saw Woodyard getting beaten in coverage too often - he's very young and should continue to improve, but it was a worry. I'd like to see Barrett more against the TEs - he's done a heck of a job at times, he and Woodyard are nearly the same size and Barrett was a little faster with better coverage skills.

The same thing is true for the DL in general - I'd love to see upgrades, but we will make some of them 'in house', perhaps some in free agency and should make the rest, if possible, in the draft. We have a lot of players in Ryan McBean who was better than I expected, Ron Fields who I liked from the get-go and Kenny Peterson who I think can be improved. Vonnie Holliday certainly was a step up, but Le Kevin Smith was a bit of a disappointment, mostly because it looked like McDaniels really felt that he would be an upgrade. I didn't think that he was - actually, I thought that he was a dropoff, and one that the Broncos could not afford. But hiding in the wings are Chris Baker, Marcus Thomas if we shift him to DE, Carlton Powell and J'Vonne Parker. Everette Pedescleaux is on PSIR if he can get up to playing shape. With the exception of Powell, all of them are bigger men, so we have a lot of potential in-house.

If your economic model is similar to the New England Pats, a direction that ours seems to be going, that's something to consider. You don't want to overpay for veterans. You want to create a situation where everyone does their job and where you get quality players rather than superstars. Remember the JAG acronym - Just a Guy? You want to get good people at decent costs and to upgrade by drafting well over several consecutive seasons. That's what keeps NE in the playoffs, and it works about the same in Pittsburgh. It isn't a fast process, but it will work. Yet, it takes time, and that's tough to come by in the NFL.

As a total aside - I was very surprised when Dannell Ellerbe sat on the board during the last few rounds before heading to Baltimore as an undrafted rookie. Congratulations to him for making an impact in his first postseason game - he's been a very good addition for them over the past two months. While he was victimized last spring as being undersized and having suspect skills as a pass rusher, he's shown all and sundry that he's got the skills to handle the position - especially when playing next to All-Everything Ray Lewis. Very good in coverage, too. Ellerbe is much stronger than his size would suggest at his speed is between 4.5 and 4.6, depending on who holds the stopwatch. Congratulations to the young man.


Defensive Secondary

The defensive secondary is an area that we will have to continue to build. Jack Williams didn't make it this year and while I'm disappointed, I have to admit that I'm not that surprised. John felt that his dismissal was premature, and he may have been right. At the same time, what I saw on film from last season just didn't improve greatly during the early season. Champ Bailey and Andre Goodman are both approaching their ninth years in the league. I like Alphonso Smith and I recognize that rookies usually have to develop - he has his work cut out for him. I'm not concerned about him at this point, but we need at least one and preferably two more CBs. Cornerback is certainly one area where I can see us picking up and developing a player or two.

I suspect that safety is fine for now. Brian Dawkins will continue to injury more easily as time goes past and we will have to replace him eventually (2023 sounds about right) , but Darcel McBath has impressed me. He's a different kind of player than Dawkins - nearly everyone is - but he's a talented young man who will contribute on STs and at safety for year's to come. In many ways, McBath reminds me more of Renaldo Hill. David Bruton is becoming a fan favorite and he's got the build and speed to develop into a heck of a player for us. He was considered raw coming out of school, so that may take a few seasons, but his history of special teams work, leadership in college, intelligence, drive and effort as well as his physical gifts could make him an excellent SS.

Sure, I'd love to see Joe Haden back there, but there are a lot of talents that could help us. I wouldn't be surprised to see a younger veteran picked up with the Xanders/McD Brain Trust and wouldn't be shocked at a FA pickup either. The point has been made that we go into each week with a smaller number of corners than most teams.


Offense - Wide Receiver

On the offensive side, what needs changing besides the O-line? We could make good use of a wide receiver, and one with substantial speed would be helpful. We have the 'possession' receivers that we need, but we need to improve our speed level. On the other hand, we have both Brandon Lloyd and Kenny McKinley waiting in the wings at WR. Brandon Stokley will, at some point, show his age, but it wasn't this year. Brandon Marshall hasn't shown enough of his emotional age this year, but the back and forth between the Broncos and Marshall is far beyond my ability to comprehend. and for all I know, he'll be back. What does concern me is this - Marshall is brilliant with his face to the QB, but he really isn't as comfortable catching over his shoulder while running and that's a weakness that he needs to improve. We need a player - and it may end up being McKinley - he has a skill for that. It's important to have a fast guy, a go route guy, but equally so to have one that can catch while in stride.

There's another consideration. Very few wide receivers traditionally are big contributors in their first year. The move to a league where everyone is faster, where everyone is athletic, where press coverage is more widely used and where the level of mental and film work has to be vastly higher has made life tough for a lot of very good young receivers. If the Broncos do choose one in the draft, it's not likely (although hopeful) that he will contribute during his first year. We need to plan accordingly. As noted - I'm oping for Kenny McKinley to come into his own. He could be a huge help. His Combine-timed 40 was a 4.44 average and he received raves for his route-running. His 37 inch vertical leap didn't hurt any either. The Sporting News War Room noted:

Uses instincts and quick footwork to get a good jump off the snap and accelerate to full speed. Shows agility changing directions quickly to gain separation from defenders. Shows excellent hands and the concentration and body control to catch nearly every pass he is thrown. Adjusts to catch off-target throws. Shows toughness running routes into traffic. Goes up for high throws and holds on to the ball while absorbing hard hits.


Running Back

A new coach at running back? It's been a long time since the Broncos had to deal with that. Moreno will hopefully be with Denver for years, but Buckhalter will eventually deal with injuries and age. Hillis hasn't excited McDaniels yet and may not - he's kind of a tweener in several ways. A man of his size should block better, a skill that would get him on the field more. Some systems use a fullback as an extra running back/receiver - some don't. When Spencer Larsen is on the field, for example, the Broncos don't. Hillis should be able to create some flexibility, but for whatever reasons, that just hasn't been a big part of the plan. Will they get another RB? Among free agency, the draft and the CFA crop, I'd guess that they'll pick up 2-3. Hillis may or may not stay.

Why 2-3 more even if Hillis stays? Attrition. You will lose a RB or two (or more) during almost any season. LaMont Jordan didn't overly excite anyone (except for those who were cussing and throwing their beer cups at the screen when he was on the field, which is a different type of excitement), so I'm fairly sure that adding to Lance Ball, Peyton Hillis, Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter and L. Jordan will be a priority. And that's a good thing


What is it that McDaniels Wants?

The basic litany is well known - smart, tough physical players, right?. It makes perfect sense, but other than telling us that he'd like some bigger smart guys who don't fall apart when the game's on the line, it doesn't tell us a lot. The schemes are complex and Denver need players who can learn, learn quickly and produce in multiple ways, it's not a ton of information. But there do seem to be some patterns emerging, despite this being McD's first season ass a head coach.

First and foremost, I tend to suspect that McDaniels wants a great big old offensive line. I like that idea, too. I love the zone blocking approach, but the rest of the league seems to be moving to it and it never hurts to get above the curve. We are playing in a division where SD and KC are 3-4 teams and OAK plays much like one- being able to run the ball up the middle is essential against those teams, and we haven't gotten that done in a while. That's 6 of your games each year. About 12 teams are mostly or full time 3-4 defensive teams now, so we'll also see plenty of that during the rest of the year as well. McDaniels wants to overpower a lot of people and that starts with a big, strong offensive line. He wants to control the ball, both on the ground and through the short passing game. If Orton is your QB next year, as is likely, he needs time to set and throw. That's also going to require a big, strong line.

Why else go the big line route? Opening holes that Moreno is more used to is much in our favor. A lot of folks seemed to forget that Morneno, like a lot of RBs, had never seen anything quite like the Turner/Dennison approach which is now a thing of the past. I talkied before the draft about my concerns with it for Moreno - it wasn't that he couldn't learn the system, simply that I thought it would take him longer. I think that it did, and I suspect that if the Xanders/McD group can give him a big, tough line, his numbers could be half again and more what they were this year.

As far as the defensive line, we could use ore beef up there as well. We talked about some ways to do that - there are many more, but we'll be looking to do it, regardless of how. More beef but also more talent on the defense - particularly the front 7 - is something that I'd bet on as well.


Who Belongs as a Bronco?

If we want to understand our upcoming picks -- not predict them, but understand them -- these are the things that we, as amateurs, should consider looking at. I'm going to suggest that we look at a few categories of analysis that will make a lot more of a difference when the Broncos consider a player. Feel free to disagree, debate and enlighten me, please, but this is how I see it. Here are my reasons, in no particular order.

Depth. Just to use this as an example, we're surprisingly deep at nose tackle. Ronald Fields has been very good. I've been happily surprised by Marcus Thomas' play as the #2. Chris Baker is in the wings (and by the way, he, or Thomas, can also play a heck of a 34DE). Whatever positions we draft for will be positions that we either need now or will soon. In rare cases, we will take a difference-maker that is simply an upgrade on a good group of players that we already have, but that's not the Pats system and it doesn't match what I know of McD/Xanders so far. We're going to go looking at the places where we need the most help.

Conditioning. It's very hard for a man to get into the kind of condition that our schemes require. It's not impossible, but if we are looking at a player, his practice habits and desire to train, to work, to run, to get in Broncos shape had better be very high. If he's got a heck of a drive, works out constantly and continues to get in better and better shape, it's a maybe. The Broncos work harder on conditioning than most teams, and the players will have to do so at altitude. I've done it - it's tough.

Intellect. I do know this - Josh McD will not compromise on Tough, Smart and Physical. You can tattoo TSP on the walls of Dover Valley. That's how important it is. If he doesn't have both a good IQ and a high IPS, we won't take him.

Leadership/Character. Is the player you're looking at a leader of his college team? Does he play that role? If not - he's probably not our guy. You can put character here as well. I'm saying that we should be far more interested in this than in simple metrics.

Metric Obsession. People are often swayed by how big, fat, strong or fast a player is. Many of those kinds are of the greatest draft busts in history. It's not that it's not important - for example, Josh and Xanders are unlikely to choose an outside linebacker who is under 260 - but it's not a simple issue. TSP. Add Character/Leadership to it and you've got the formula. Finally - and probably the most important:

Scheme Appropriate. Tell me exactly why this player fits our particular scheme perfectly. Explosion? Tenacity? Intellect? How does he play when it's a tough game? Big plays? Does he make the difference when the game is on the line?

These are among the things that we will want to be looking at as we start talking about the draft. We're going to be swayed by emotion, school allegiances, personal attachment and generalities, but I'm fairly certain that Xanders/McD won't be. If we look as closely as possible through their eyes, we'll see a lot more.


Was 2009 a Failure?

That's something about this year that we can easily lose sight of: Josh McDaniels inherited a lot of problems. He brought in some very good coaches and he brought in a lot of players who did well for us early on. the coaches did a good job of getting players ready for the early season. We won some games.

As the season progressed, all teams make adjustments based on the film. Our opponents did so, the weaknesses that we have don't lend themselves to quick fixes. The depth of the team doesn't currently include a lot of star talent and hence we are starting to talk about the draft early on. This is where the folks who claim that it's a talent based league are right - it is, but that has to include a certain amount of stars and a certain level of strength among the backups as well as a lot of star power on the coaching staff. There is not perfect formula for that - your 'mix' changes each year, in degree. The Broncos just didn't hold up. I wasn't that surprised - at the beginning of the year, I wrote:

"The true test of an organization is not how it fares one year. It's building a competitive team year after year and competing for championships...I suspect that the Broncos fans may go ballistic if it (losing) happens. I won't. I know that creating long term change is difficult. It's messy. You're going to be questioned, disliked, hated and reviled, but that if you're the head of a team, you can't listen. You have to look within yourself and make the decisions, accept that some will be right and some wrong and move forward. If you're a fan, seeing that will make this process less painful."

That's still true today.

Comment 106 comments  |  27 recs  | 

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thanks

For your excellent observations and continued optimism about our team’s future. I for one am tired of the negativity that has prevailed since the end of the season.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick

by azdenfan on Jan 14, 2010 4:45 PM MST reply actions  

I too am excited for the future

and LOVE this time of year (although I loved it after the two Super Bowl wins MUCH better…)
Rec’d!

by topnation on Jan 14, 2010 4:50 PM MST reply actions  

excellent take, bear.

i especially appreciate your view on QB. even those of us who aren’t enthralled with Orton aren’t exactly haters (well, okay, some people are), and i think most of us would admit that unless brandstater’s ready to walk in on the #1 spot (seems unlikely) that we don’t have a lot of options but to have Kyle there at least next year.

by oxmouth on Jan 14, 2010 4:59 PM MST reply actions  

Yes
I’m going to build the offensive line as my first priority, look at the defensive ability to stop the run as my second concern, then move to the secondary. I tend to add most of the ‘skill’ positions the later stages. By the way – this is not carved into stone for me. If I get a chance at a guy who I feel will change the game for years, I’ll make a change.

Yes.

by Remember Keith Kartz! on Jan 14, 2010 5:26 PM MST reply actions  

Great Piece!

Am I nuts, or does Brandon Spikes not make the best fit for us at ILB???

"A player who conjugates a verb in the first person singular cannot be part of the squad, he has to conjugate the verb in the first person plural. We. We want to conquer. We are going to conquer. Using the word 'I' when you're in a group makes things complicated." ~ Wanderley Luxemburgo, 1999

by ejruiz on Jan 14, 2010 5:28 PM MST reply actions  

Good question, ej

I’m honestly not sure. This reminds me in come ways of the situation with Maualuga last year. Spikes has a rep for that temper and/or behavior, based on…what, a single incident? Two, three, four? I honestly don’t know – I haven’t studied him yet, so I’d be glad to catch some other member’s opinions. My point, though, is that I think that the Broncos will, other factors being equal, go for the guy who plays disciplined football and has good ‘character’ issues.

Were Rey’s as bad as they came out? I don’t know – he did have some issues. He also used them right and let them drive him to do better where other guys would use the new money, power and freedom to act out. Where will Brandon (when even the name can strike fear into a Bronco fan’s heart right now) come down on this issues. I hate that we don’t get to catch tape of interviews during Combine, don’t you?

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 14, 2010 5:38 PM MST up reply actions  

McClain is like Rey, but with more smarts and reads play better....I am starting to get on the band wagon!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jan 14, 2010 7:20 PM MST up reply actions  

+1

-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

by BroncoSense72 on Jan 15, 2010 8:05 AM MST up reply actions  

re: Spikes

Just to give you an idea of where he ranks, he’s at #18 for seniors on Scott Wright’s Draft Countdown. Interestingly, Vladimir Ducasse is #16. That’s a big change from last year, when Spikes was considered at the same level as Maualuga.

His stock has obviously dropped.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 14, 2010 8:33 PM MST up reply actions  

The War Room (Sporting News)

Has him as #11 (just one slot ahead of Mike Iupati) overall in the draft pool…going 15 to the NY Giants. #1 ILB prospect.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 14, 2010 11:42 PM MST up reply actions  

From TSN:

Bottom line: In games we’ve graded, Spikes is involved in one of every 6.4 snaps, an excellent ratio, especially against SEC competition. He is not the premier athlete NFL coaches drool over, but he is without question a good all-around athlete with the strength and smarts to make plays in every facet of defense. He projects as a good NFL starter capable of playing in the middle of a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 14, 2010 11:44 PM MST up reply actions  

"a good starter"

Yes, that’s about right, but that’s also a notch below where McClain is pegged. Anyone who’s projected as a 1st rounder is starter material, so that’s not actually saying that much.

He’s still well regarded but there are a lot of knocks that have arisen on him — takes poor angles, somewhat slow, not a 3-down LB, etc. He’s not as rated as high as last year, but there are some people who still like him. He’s a player but not an athlete. The question is whether his shortcomings will be exposed at the next level.

Comparisons to McClain are now heavily in McClain’s favor. Spikes could also be suffering from over-analysis, too.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 15, 2010 1:34 AM MST up reply actions  

No doubt.

I was just posting that as reference to ejruiz…not in any advocating posture.

I’m not wild about any ILB in the first round at this point, although McClain certainly wouldn’t upset me.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 15, 2010 8:49 AM MST up reply actions  

not sure why

I think he’s yet to update him. My impression is that most people have dropped Mays, I’ve even seen him as a 2nd. He’ll still go high because someone will like his metrics but he’s not where he would have gone last year if he had come out.

There’s way too many good Safeties this year and Mays is more a hitter than a pass coverer. I’m not sure what to do with him, and we likely won’t have any real interest in him.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 15, 2010 1:44 AM MST up reply actions  

Wow.!

That was a lot… But VERY worthwhile. your views were well thought out. I believe the jury is still out on Marcus Thomas. I saw him get tossed around quite a bit and he doesn’t seem to get any push(easily blocked), especially against the good teams. My question to you(or anyone else) how long, realistically, do you think that the McX team building will take? Not to WIN the superbowl, but to be that caliber of team? Or is that the $64,000 question?

by the northerner on Jan 14, 2010 5:44 PM MST reply actions  

As always, I really enjoy the read Doc.

I really enjoy your soup to nuts approach, as apposed to the kitchen sink routine.
You make it easy for those of us, to follow your logic and will deserved wit in a most
enjoyable fasion. I for one, feel at times, I’m privy to insider information, on the nuts and
bolts, of building a team.
I look forward to what I am sure to be surprises in the Reload.
Go Broncos
Rec’d

Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM

by UB3 on Jan 14, 2010 6:22 PM MST reply actions  

I enjoy feeding soup to nuts

Makes me feel right at home, too.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 14, 2010 9:17 PM MST up reply actions  

I realize your intention was to provoke thought, not necessarily persuade, but..

Your articulation about depth of ILB vs depth of DL (perhaps somewhat unintentional) has, I believe, single-handedly changed my mind about the importance of drafting a NT so early. While I still believe a guy like Dan Williams would be a very welcome upgrade at NT, and that Fields could then move to DE as an upgrade there also… I no longer place that priority over a run-stopping ILB, larger due to the lack of depth.

Great read, thanks for the breakdown

by Alex on Jan 14, 2010 6:49 PM MST reply actions  

a quick thought

Most people have forgotten about Nick Greisen. I’ve wondered how he fits into our projections.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 14, 2010 7:58 PM MST up reply actions  

I've wondered the same thing..

from what I understood when he first came in, he was mainly brought in for special teams purposes too right?

Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands

by BroncosNL on Jan 15, 2010 12:32 AM MST up reply actions  

so were Reid and Haggan

He’s started in the past and he’s a good fit for us. If he’s only depth it still means that we’re fairly well covered at ILB.

I think it makes ILB an area that we take only if the prospect is the BPA at that point.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 15, 2010 1:50 AM MST up reply actions  

Nick Greisen is on IR

He’ll be in a fight trying to get PT past those guys, too. We have some depth (lots more than last year) – we need better quality.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 2:33 AM MST up reply actions  

no disagreement from me

We’re not going to fill everything so it’s important to identify areas that can go without help, or as much help. A McClain pick may be our best shot at upgrading ILB and if we go another route then it’s possible that we’ll go into 2010 without an upgrade there.

Greisen may help our depth situation at ILB and provide a stopgap until we address the position later on.

As aside — my draft philosophy is to look at rounds one through four as upgrade picks. A trade or two could increase our allotment of picks in this range but the current scenario doesn’t allow us to upgrade as many positions as we’d like. That could put us in a situation in which we have to make do with players already on our roster, with perhaps a few minor additions.

My feeling on the early rounds at this moment is that ILB isn’t a likely early pick nor necessarily should it be. There aren’t many scheme-appropriate players available who qualify as upgrades, as you can see HERE, so we may not have a choice, regardless of what we want to do.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 15, 2010 4:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Awesoe work Em.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jan 14, 2010 6:49 PM MST reply actions  

Excellent post, Emmett. Rec'd!

I was thinking today about doing a post about how we would build a football team. What position(s) would we begin with? Here I see that you have essentially done this for me – with greater eloquence.

I agree with you on the OL being the first building block for a successful team. And ours needs a large influx of personnel. Talented personnel. Last off season we hoped that we could have a defense that could stop someone. This year, it feels more like wanting an offense that can block and/or move thru someone. If we can pick up FAs, that will help. Otherwise, I think that we will see either #1 or #2 as being an OG or OC.

The DL ended up getting some flexiblility with players. I am guessing that that is what we will have on the OL as well.

Very good work, Doc. Thanks. This one rates a couple of salmon!

by Blackknigh on Jan 14, 2010 7:04 PM MST reply actions  

Doc, FRICKIN awesome my friend!!!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Jan 14, 2010 7:21 PM MST reply actions  

Doc

That was quite a thought out piece and was a very good read. Thanks

"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."
"We laugh to stave off madness."

by zclayro on Jan 14, 2010 7:28 PM MST reply actions  

one position at question...

Assuming Scheff leaves in a trade, are you happy with where we stand at TE? Graham is still playing great but is getting older and seems to draw more flags with age. As for Quinn he just seems a little slow getting a grip, understandably as a rookie in a tough system. Either way I would think we would need a third for either depth or jumbo packages

"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."
"We laugh to stave off madness."

by zclayro on Jan 14, 2010 7:31 PM MST reply actions  

I definitely think Denver needs to draft a TE

or sign one (not sure who is available as a FA this year). Especially if Scheffler is indeed traded. Graham seems to have one more year in him, Quinn I think will be good, but another TE seems almost a requirement.

There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.

by underdog on Jan 14, 2010 7:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes, TE could be a tough one

I’m not sure when Quinn will be ready and I’m not convinced that Scheff will be back. There is a backup option ‘tho, that might work out well. Since we have a tendency to play fullback’s, linemen, etc., as the third TE in a Magic 3 set, why not look at the options that Marquez Branson offers. He’s a little too light, sure, but he runs nice routes, is as fast as Scheff and really did some nice things at receiving TE in college. To whit:

  1. SI grade for Quinn is 3.54, for Branson is 3.34
  2. Pro day times for the 40 consistently under 4.7, with one time of 4.55
    Positives: Stout frame with room for additional growth. Good initial quickness off the snap. Athletic enough to gain a free release off the line and to shake linebackers to gain separation. Secure receiver who looks the ball into his hands. Can take a shot and maintain possession. Good speed to challenge the seam. Surprisingly physical at the point of attack as a run blocker. Gets a good initial pop and will battle for position.

Negatives: May have to make the transition to H-back or fullback at the next level due to his lack of preferred size and strength. Has no experience as a traditional fullback. Good effort, but only marginal overall strength as a blocker. Level of competition a concern. May struggle with a complicated playbook.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVK3OFhGiRs&feature=player_embedded

There’s enough more that with another I’ll drop it into a quick post

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 14, 2010 9:26 PM MST up reply actions  

wow… hadn’t see that video before…

by Todd Jewell on Jan 15, 2010 7:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Consider how little time he's had in the game

Really, a couple years of JUCO, then two years at a small school. It’s hard to learn everything that you need to, and he’s not all that fast (although not that different from Brandon Marshall). He needs to be taught, brought along and coached up – and that’s assuming that they see him as a piece to the eventual puzzle.

But as the article you’ll see tomorrow indicates – there’s a lot to consider with that young man. He might end up being a nice piece of the puzzle.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 5:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Dennis Pitta, BYU

All this guy does is get open and catch the ball. His blocking is good too… everybody blocks at BYU!

" May the bandwagon jumpers bark their shins!"

by hairybear on Jan 15, 2010 2:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Nice!

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 2:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Btw add me to the kudos here Emmett

great stuff. It sounds lazy almost to say “What he said!” but seriously, I agree with everything you wrote above.

There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.

by underdog on Jan 14, 2010 7:40 PM MST reply actions  

Another nice post Emmett

I hereby recommend the article. Sounds almost British.

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Jan 14, 2010 8:02 PM MST reply actions  

I'm excited about the draft too here comes X-mas!

I’m ready to see McD take the next step in building this team in his vision. Let’s get on with finding out if he can! (Gawd I hope he can)

BTW I’m hoping we focus on our lines.

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 14, 2010 8:23 PM MST reply actions  

DJ

what, if any trade value does DJ Williams have?

"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."
"We laugh to stave off madness."

by zclayro on Jan 14, 2010 8:25 PM MST reply actions  

not enough...

… to replace what we would lose by letting him go.

While frustratingly inconsistent at times, he’s still by far the best all-around ILB on the team. He is defintiely starter quality, and can be a long-term compoonent to the DEF. When he’s playing well, like he was at the beginning of the year, he can be dominant with good cover & passrush skills, as well as the size and speed to handle runs both inside and outside. Unfortunately, he has never been able to maintain that level of consistency for a whole year…

I agree. My top priorities are interior O-line and D-line, but for slightly different reasons.

D-line however is an issue because we really don’t have a “difference maker” upfront, which means we’re too dependent on scheme to get consistent pass rush or stop the run. They current crew isn’t bad, but against big strong olines, our guys get pushed around too much (particularly when McBean/Peterson were out), which means we have to commit the LBs to run-blitzing. This in turn opened up opportunties for bigplays if they get past the first level, either passing or running. Basically, I think we need an early round pick here that has the potential to be superstar, if not this year than in future years (like many positions, D-line tends to be a 2-year development cycle). Either that or pray that Baker can be that guy.

Interior O-line for our obvious weakness, and lack of depth generally. Giving Orton more ability to stand and step-up, and better short-yardage running success would’ve meant probably 2 more wins this year. We need at least one starter from the early rounds (1-3) and/or free agency, if not 2 starters here.

If Marshall leaves, we need to start developing another WR too. Royal/Gaffney/Stokely/McKinley may not be the worst group WRs in the league, but no one would call them scary either….

In later rounds, secondary depth also has to be a big concern. At the beginning of the year (1st SD game comes to mine), the big blitzing was fine because the safeties were coming up and cutting off the outlets/screens while Champ and Goodman shut down the outsides. However, once teams figured out we were soft at nickelback and that Dawk/Hill/McBath were slowed/out with injury, the result wasn’t so good. Plus, just as we saw with Hamilton/Weignman, once players hit their 30s the wheels can fall off real fast, taking things from positions of strength to big weaknesses. I want to have options if/when that happens to Champ/Dawk/Goodman/Hill.

Other late round priorities I agree are depth all around, as there isn’t anywhere that I don’t think we are truly in very good overall shape at, even if the starters are decent. The possible exception being OLB/Saftey, depending on how you think Ayers is coming along and how risk adverse you are about our safety age…

So in summary for my thoughts (as of now):

Quality Starter Free Agents/Rounds 1-3 we need at least:
1 D-lineman, 1 or 2 interior O-lineman, Potentially impact playmakers if they are BPA at ILB or WR

Later rounds/FA/CFA
Depth at CB, Oline, TE, RB, ILB, WR, QB, OLB/Safety(?)

by cjfarls on Jan 15, 2010 10:21 AM MST up reply actions  

sorry about the wierd transitions...

copy/pasted/moved some para’s around, and the transition words don’t always make sense anymore…

by cjfarls on Jan 15, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions  

I fully agree

O Line is a must priority and I think Josh has alluded to that fact as well. That and depth. Very soon we will see which direction he and Brian Xanders are going and the drafting options will be more refined. Nice work Emmett.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 14, 2010 8:33 PM MST reply actions  

Thought provoking and mind opening

I am amazed by the quality of posts, the variety of styles and knowledge, and the ability of a good number of our posters to write such high quality pieces. Woody would be well advised to take a few lessons from reading MHR as he pales in comparison to at last four or five of our best.

by BroncoCUbuffs on Jan 14, 2010 9:09 PM MST reply actions  

Nah, his words are too harsh.

I’d rather wipe with a brick.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.

by Troy Hufford on Jan 15, 2010 6:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Is it too much to ask to call this time of year "McXmas"?

Haha, that was lame, but who knows…If McJaygate can stick…

I really enjoyed reading this, and found that everything I read in your writing was echoed in my most recent mock draft, save for the WR position. I currently (though my mocks are pretty far fetched at this moment with projecting Marshall/Scheffler/Hillis trades) have us taking two WR’s in the third round; Carlton Mitchell of USF (6’4" 215) and Dezmon Briscoe (6’3" 200) of Kansas.

I think even if we don’t trade Marshall that we should upgrade at WR in the third round or later, and get someone with good speed and good height. We need someone who can win a jump ball situation, and currently we don’t have anyone on the roster who can do that. I think both Mitchell and Briscoe excel in that area, and while you are correct in saying WR is a low impact position for first year players, we still should look into upgrading in the draft, especially if we trade Marshall.

As to your argument for the offensive line being the foundation of a great team, I couldn’t agree more. I currently project us to select Maurkice Pouncey and Mike Iupati in the first two rounds. I think shoring up the interior of our offensive line with these two elite prospects would be outstanding. If we can get those two, I would immediately consider any other pick a splendid luxury.

I also have a question about the last segment you included. You talked about a player who is tough, smart, and physical. You talked about adding depth at key positions, leadership, conditioning, tenacity, intellect, character, measurables, and finally, the ability to adapt to our scheme. Immediately after finishing that part of the piece, I thought of where we might selecting in the draft, and given the formula you created, how important our winning the coin toss with Jacksonville might be. I know you are opposed to a QB with our first pick, and I am all for Orton, but the player you described verbatim in that segment is Tim Tebow, to a “t”.

I am as big a Tebow fan you will find, and I could spend hours trying to convince people and make a case for him. I have not so much given up on making a case for Tebow as I have resorted to hoping others will see it on their own. BUT, given what you said in that part of the post, you must have some soft spot/support of drafting a player like Tebow, even if it IS in the first round.

by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 14, 2010 9:29 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

I am right there with ya on Tebow Sayre...But,

I just can’t seem to make sense of a scenario that would justify the move after taking all of our other needs into consideration…I only see it happening if Josh is just absolutely in love with the guy and McX decides to go against their own “policies and procedures”…Even if they are tempted, I believe they will suppress the urges and stay the schedule…I , for one, sure wouldn’t be dissapointed if McX blew everybody away and took him (sometimes one can believe that they have found that lightning in a bottle?)…I just don’t think that he will and I won’t be dissapointed with that decision either.

-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

by BroncoSense72 on Jan 15, 2010 8:46 AM MST up reply actions  

McXmas?

Hey, works for me. Sort of a ‘From new year’s to spring solstice/passover/easter sort of thing, so sure, why not have a few more holidays? McFestivus? I could really go for that. We did Draftivus last year, thanks to Styg/Jeremy

No, I’m really not big on Tebow. Look, I love the guy as a person and I know that he’s a very dedicated player, but I just don’t see his physical skillset matching what we need at QB. I know and respect that you disagree, but there it is. Feel free to change my mind though – happens all the time. In the case of both a backup QB and at least one WR, I’m more looking for a veteran. Think of it this way – regardless of your feelings on Tebow, I think that we need a QB who can come in and help out immediately if Orton is injured. I’m not sure that Brandstater is ready for that (although down the road, I hope for good things from him) but I feel strongly

against
Tebow being ready this year. Unless we want to become the Tampa Bay Bucs North, we don’t want to start collecting QBs. Three, sure, but I’m not so sure about 4.

I’m not sure that we need two new WRs (I finally got a dictation program to work, so I’ll have a thing up on Marquez Branson in a couple of days) but I’m certainly not opposed, either. Again – I think that we need a guy who can help us right away, and that might be Kenny McKinley who looked pretty good in the last couple games he played (the injuries worry me, but they said that about Eddie Royal too). Branson has some potential as one more possession receiver and after that, I’m open. Like I mentioned – I’m not at all looking to avoid or refuse ‘skills’ players, I just have strong feelings about where I’d like to see the Broncos start.

I’m still not clear on a couple of things – who can we trade for picks (and/or players), ho wmany picks we can line up and who will declare. If we wound up with 3 extra draft picks, I get open to a lot (sorry, not Tim T, but a lot of other stuff;-) )

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 10:36 AM MST up reply actions  

I have no idea why against decided to become bold

Perhaps my feelings are stronger than I thought….

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions  

LOL Mickmas.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jan 16, 2010 2:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I just spelled it that way for pronunciation, not as a racial slur.....

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jan 16, 2010 2:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Sublime.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 14, 2010 11:51 PM MST reply actions  

Great article! Thanks

definately what I love waking up to in the morning..reading such brilliant insight…

One question…
You mentioned Carlton Powell. I noticed that many of the guys we signed to future contracts came from our own practice squad. Carlton Powell was not among those signed to future contracts right? So is he technically still on the team… I guess he is, but what after March 5th when the new league year begins?

Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands

by BroncosNL on Jan 15, 2010 12:37 AM MST reply actions  

Great question

I suppose that it’s another way that we’ve set up flexibility – if he’s going to be ready, some form of contract can be signed at that time (Rotoworld had nothing). There’s not point in a future contract if he’s not going to make it back. For his sake, I hope that he does

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 2:37 AM MST up reply actions  

to my knowledge

the practice squad contract runs out at the end of the season. Whether that means regular season or after the Super Bowl, I’m not sure, but signing the futures contract is the only way to retain exclusive negotiating rights with players on our practice squad at that point.

If Powell hasn’t signed a future’s contract, it means that he is eligible to be signed by any squad. This may be his decision as much as it is the Denver front office, but there is no real way of knowing.

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 15, 2010 5:00 AM MST up reply actions  

That's a great plan, Walter. That's %$^&in' ingenious, if I understand it correctly.

It’s a Swiss %$^&in’ watch. Just like your post… timeless. Thanks Bear.

My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.

by Blackshirt4Broncos on Jan 15, 2010 2:07 AM MST reply actions  

Nice Analysis

We may not agree on the head coach, Emmet, but I sure like the analysis and work you put into your columns. My son makes fun of me for having a 2010 Broncos folder already, and your article has just been placed in it.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jan 15, 2010 4:38 AM MST reply actions  

As always Bear, you continue to impress...Looking forward to the process!

-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

by BroncoSense72 on Jan 15, 2010 8:26 AM MST reply actions  

Super article Bear

Loved every second of it….really great offseason reading.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jan 15, 2010 8:45 AM MST reply actions  

O line, O line, O line

I totally agree that O line has to be the priority. Emmet, you’ve said a couple times that Ryan Harris’ dislocated toe is the type of injury that takes one to two years to recover from. Is that still your opinion? If so, it means that Harris will not be back until November at the earliest. With the abject failure of Hamilton/Hochstein, and the drop off from Wiegmann, and also some dropoff from Kuper, and Polumbus’ failure, we have huge needs on the O line. Maybe 4 of 5 positions, if Kuper just isn’t a fit for the power block scheme (but I’d like to think that some of Kuper’s problems were because of the weak play on his right side)
Anyway, I’m with Sayre on this – get Pouncey and Iupati, or Asamoah if Iupati is gone. I’ll hope and pray that Polumbus makes a giant leap after a ten games as a starter – this will only be his third year in the NFL.

War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles

by bradley on Jan 15, 2010 10:22 AM MST reply actions  

Bradley, I think that being cognizant that the toe could be a one-two year issue is just being wise

Harris managed a nasty injury to the same toe in that one game he came in for, so I’m going to assume the worst for the moment. All three injuries healing and not leaving any changes or issues with balance and movement is a tall, tall order. That being the case, I’m in favor of looking along the lines of a right tackle as well. I like some of the names that are going by.

One point – I like Kuper more than many right now. I felt that after a few weeks of being the only guy on that side of the line who was doing OK – even pretty well – he just got overwhelmed. Perhaps he tried to do too much, but he didn’t suddenly lose the skills that he had last year and earlier this year. Is he too light? Not immediately, perhaps. We have bigger problems, I suspect. Once they are solved, looking at getting some value for him might be a good idea. He may be just fine, though – tough, tough guy. Get him some players around him and we’ll see.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 10:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I think Kuper should stay.

He’s (comparitively) affordable compared to a FA and less risky than a high draft pick rookie.

I give him the first year system pass though. It’s hard for me to evaluate how much the new offense effects the style of play, new responsibilities and that each player has their own hill to climb with it. I can’t think that his performance between this year and last year is a drop in talent as opposed to all the new scheme to learn. I’d like to see Kuper back mostly because I wouldn’t want to see too many draft picks start out of the gate and learn on the job. Very risky in my opinion to put too many rooks on the line.

Now, Hamilton, I don’t know what happened there.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 15, 2010 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

This issue makes Iupati even more appealing, IMO

The dude has the metrics to be an outstanding 3rd T at the very least. Tall order for a rookie to be a LG and T his first year— I know— but I reject the tendency to view every rookie as what he can do the first year. Iupati is one of a handful of players available that has the potential to be rare at his position, and his potential versatility is uncanny. So you get your probable LG of the future (and a starter out of the gate at G), and a guy that, with a little seasoning, can also kick out to tackle if needed.

Long story short, Denver probably can’t solve (upgrade and depth the Oline completely this offseason) but Iupati seems like a heck of a start in that direction. Unfortunately, there is a real quandary between Denver’s draft position and Iupati— and the trading back/and or King’s Ransom from Marshall scenarios are a heck of lot easier said around here than done in the real world. This might ultimately be an issue of timing, and Denver might have to look at the second tier of prospects at G, because I see no chance that Iupati falls much beyond the 20-25 range…if he even cracks the teens.

That is going to seriously bum me out….

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 15, 2010 11:04 AM MST up reply actions  

McDaniels showed last year [albeit with lack of proper time / consistency on scouting] that he isn’t afraid to take players ahead of where they “should” go

by Todd Jewell on Jan 15, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

PO, check some of the earlier comments about Lupati.

There is a ranking from Scott Wright and a link to it. I believe Lupati is 14th. Someone else mentions him at 12th on the Sporting News ranking. We draft at 11. Not really a reach.

by Blackknigh on Jan 15, 2010 4:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd be all for it...

Brandon Albert went at 13 (I believe), so its not unprecedented. But the prevailing league wisdom suggest a G (even a great one) isn’t equal to an equal prospect at DE, LB, CB, etc, so I’m not holding my breathe that the Broncos would be willing to do that, especially if they’re as high on McClain, Williams, etc as people around here are.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 15, 2010 4:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Albert was the 15th pick

I have read a few Scouting reports that say Lupati is extremely raw. He worries me because of the level of competition he played against in college. I do not see him going before the 25 pick in round 1 at this point. #10 or 11 is way to high for Lupati in my opinion

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 15, 2010 5:35 PM MST up reply actions  

No doubt.

Clady had the ‘level of competition’ tag…which was lucky for the Broncos, or else he would have never fallen far enough.

Just like McClain, you can certainly find some that have less glowing opinions of him than others. What I like are the descriptions of his strength, athleticism, and most importantly his character. He not only seems to be a good candidate to fill a desperate on field need, but he also appears to fit the McX mold as a person.

I’d be stunned if Denver picked him at 11. Like I said further above, the stars don’t seem to be lining up for him landing in Denver.

I recognize that what I hope for is far different than the likely reality.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 15, 2010 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

I love all the positives

the scouting reports give me but a lot say he is raw and needs coaching. Clady was not really raw he just have level of competition concerns but look at Boise State now. They compete with the big boys and Clady was part of that team that beat OU. Idaho is no where close to Boise State. Some reports say he may not start day 1. I would rather pick a player that has a very good chance to start day 1, the minue they walk into dove valley

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 15, 2010 6:11 PM MST up reply actions  

a myth

Re:-

“- McDaniels showed last year [albeit with lack of proper time / consistency on scouting] that he isn’t afraid to take players ahead of where they "should" go.”

People recycle these stories without bothering to verify them. There were different issues regarding different picks but post-draft analysis (not the heat-of-the-moment comments) placed Denver somewhere in the middle of the NFL regarding this. We neither deviated much from expected projections for our picks nor were the results atypical, as measured by retention and end-of-season evaluations.

Many of the commentators were surprised that we didn’t emphasize defense (although we did) after not addressing defense in free agency (although we did). And that’s the point, most commentators weren’t well-informed on our situation. The Cutler-gate drama had shaped opinions and the paid commentators were no less prone to being influenced by this psychological dynamic than some fans.

Many of the ‘mini-Kipers’ were just kibitzing and didn’t have a detailed knowledge of all the prospects, nor did they have an accurate method of judging when prospects should go. This phenomenon of second guessing has been aided by the Internet’s resources on the draft, which has given rise to vocal, partisan kibitzers who register their approval or disapproval to each pick regardless of their level of knowledge.

There are resources on the web that show where prospects were rated/ranked, and these also happen to be some of the best resources available. Here’s some examples on our controversial picks.

Scott Wright’s Draft Countdown: MOCK: Quinn, Robert #76, Big Board: #93. Draft Scout: Big Board: #85(rising). ACTUAL PICK; 64.

The furor over Quinn’s selection didn’t jibe with what the better analysts were saying. Quinn’s ranking had him as a 3rd round pick according to the two Big Boards but Wright’s MOCK had him going higher, which reflects demand at his position. Interestingly, Wright’s MOCK had him going to the Jets with the 12th pick in the 3rd, which was one pick ahead of Houston’s. In an article by Frank Schwab of the CS Gazzette, Quinn’s agent is quoted as saying that knew that Houston was intent on taking Quinn with it’s 3rd round pick. Denver’s pick, at #79, was just a few picks later. Later in the draft, during the 4th round, Houston went ahead and took the other dominant blocking TE in the draft, Anthony Hill.

Quinn’s position was much higher than many people believed, and the contention by his agent that he would have been selected in the 3rd by Houston is confirmed by the fact that they later took a similar prospect at a slightly later spot. Moreover, Wright’s MOCK tells us that the Jet’s could have been interested, too. Quinn was also a "rising’ prospect, meaning that his draft stock was still moving upward at the time of the draft. Moving up to take Quinn with the last pick in the 2nd made sense given the likelihood that he wouldn’t be available by the time we made our pick. And the terms of the trade for the draft pick was somewhat favorable given the fact that we initiated the trade offer.

The other controversial pick was Alphonso Smith’s. He was selected in DC’s MOCK by us at #48 (coincidentally. and Wright also correctly predicted we’d select Ayers at #18), and his rating on the Big Board was at #33. Draft Scout’s Big Board rated him at #34. His actual selection: #37.

The controversy over Smith’s pick had less to do with when he was picked, which was later than he was rated, than with the fact that we traded to acquire the pick to select him, and this necessarily involved paying interest. Smith’s Big Board rating was in the 20s according to many sources but fell slightly before the draft because of concerns over his height.

Parts of the controversy over Smith’s pick related to top ten positional considerations for picks, which applies when you actually pick in the top ten (which we did not). Teams stay away from taking players at certain positions. CBs can be picked in the top ten but most teams shy away from the practice unless the player is truly exceptional. Again, to reiterate, all of this applies when you’re actually picking in the top ten, and it applies because of the salaries involved, which are slotted according to pick number. We didn’t pay Smith for what we traded him for, however, we paid him according to when he was actually picked.

There are numerous controversies that develop around many picks, but most people are far less aware of those that develop around other team’s selections. The only real difference between the controversies surrounding the Broncos’ picks and those of other teams is the fact that the draft happened shortly after the Cutlergate controversy was still fresh in many people’s minds. Many of Shanahan’s drafts were unsuccessful in both the short and long run, but they generated far less controversy. The only pick that deviated from its expected range was Seth Olsen’s, but that presumes that a prospect “should go” where some draftnik designates.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 15, 2010 10:11 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

When I think of why the MSM reports and their analysis

I always try to think of what is easiest for them to do? Is it easier to say, "OMG the Broncos traded “one” of their future 1st round picks for this 2nd round pick" or rather go into depth and explain your points above? Your work above is reporting, digging deeper into what is actually happening. That’s much harder than offering the superficial, reactionary soundbite.

It’s not like ESPN is going to offer a thought that Broncos got exactly who they wanted and also saved 3 million by bundling two picks to get their player Quinn. It’s obvious by what the Broncos traded they were serious and had a plan about Quinn as the player they wanted. It takes a lot more work to interview or read the Agent’s take, look at Houston and the Jets motives in position to draft him. It’s just too much easier to spout, "OMG look how Denver traded “TWO picks to move up and take this ONE player” and also add with less emphasis that he was the best blocking TE in the draft. Best at his position doesn’t sell as well in creating a “story”.

But the draft boards and reporting of it is entertainment. It’s entertainment. The pick boards create a storyline and the media basis it’s soundbite “analysis” on that storyline. It’s the main reason I don’t read MSM sites and value greater the opinions from intelligent people like you and others here.

The instant-soundbite-analysis story is also much easier to ingest for the casual fan. Also easier to repeat by the kibitzers (BTW I had to look that up and learned something new today). With those short-sided takes of the draft repeated over and over and over, it sinks into people’s mindsets, whether it’s relevant, truthful or not.

Thank you so much for taking the time to add comments like this above to the site. I appreciate all the time you take to share your knowledge.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 16, 2010 1:22 PM MST up reply actions  

low information voters, so to speak

Although not all are low information, and those that aren’t low information voters don’t actually use more sophisticated methods for making up their minds, in spite of what they claim (as research has shown), The strange thing is that people will often admit admit to the irrational nature of their belief and insist that it’s true anyways, and even go back to pretending that they arrived at their conclusions rationally despite their earlier admission.

I use the term myth (in this case) to describe the tendency of people to believe whatever satisfies certain psychological factors. Many people believed the worst about McDaniels because it’s easy (and satisfying to some) to believe the worst. The Dolchstoss legende (stabbed in the back) is one of history’s best known myths, and it demonstrates how psychological factors can influence beliefs. People who believed the worst of McDaniels never updated their beliefs to account for new evidence. And, moreover, the hardcore haters merely changed their minds about other things in order to allow themselves to continue hating McDaniels. And catching people in the middle of doing this only elicits anger, thus the Kool-aid myth was born to allow the haters to rationalize how some people not only arrived at different opinions but separate facts.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jan 17, 2010 3:40 AM MST up reply actions  

you make a great point Colinski

to take it further, it is helpful to drop the “round” distinction, and track these players by “pick” instead. While harder to remember, I think it makes our memories of the draft more accurate.

Also, when looking at the more professional BigBoards out there (my favorite is nfldraftscout, especially for finding CFAs) I think it is helpful to look at any individual player as having around a 32-pick window. This represents both that on average NFL teams have long waits until they pick again, as well as the fact that the player himself may only be a quality fit for a handful out of 32.

Calling someone a “2nd rounder” when they are selected at #33 is highly misleading…

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 16, 2010 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

TEAM BUILDING

I echo your sentiments exactly regarding the Bronco’s priority being OL & DL versus QB. First, there are better QB’s in the next two drafts coming. While this years crop is good the only “real” pro prospect is Bradley and he is damaged goods. My draft selection at this point would be junior OC-Maurice Pouncey from Florida or senior OG-Iupati from Idaho. There is a junior ILB by the name of McClain that is a “game changer” however and could command serious consideration early. Lets hope Denver can get reasonble and early compensation for Marshall and Scheffler, say another 1st round and 3rd round for Marshall and a 2nd rounder for Scheffler.

by Charlie Tango on Jan 15, 2010 10:37 AM MST reply actions  

TEAM BUILDING REQUIRES GREAT COACHING

Speaking of team builidng, lets not forget that team building requires great coaching, especially if your are going to rely on your younger players and not get carried away with high priced older FA’s. Has anybody got a clue what Denver will do to replace Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison? Both weren’t just coaches, they were smart coaches who could cummunicate and teach.

by Charlie Tango on Jan 15, 2010 10:50 AM MST reply actions  

I have no current clue, CT

One aspect of last year’s efforts came in bringing in good coaches. I hope the Broncos can do as well with the replacements of Turner and Dennison.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

Needs

O-line is certainly a need, no doubt about that. But I question the notion that the falloff from 08 was really that surprising and unpredictable.

Clearly a lot of things went well last year in terms of offensive line play, no significant injuries and a scheme customfitted to the players we had. We knew that there was no chance in hell that we would be injury free for 16 games this year, but we also knew, or at least the powers that be knew that they were changing the scheme significantly and they knew or should have known that it would be difficult to execute that scheme with the players we had. I would seriously question the competence of Mcdaniels, Mccoy and Dennison if they didn’t know that.

I have to admit I don’t share your optimism regarding the practice squad players we have and the future contract signees, if more than 1 of those players make the final 53 it would be surprising.

The way I see it, Olsen should be ready to play this year, he was handpicked for the current scheme so he should fit. He could percievably be slotted at center where size is not as much a premium as it is at guard, that would leave us with an empty guard slot – hopesully we are done picking up New England linemen (Hochstein, Gorin and Smith) who have all been disappointing – so that leaves us with the draft, I think a 2nd round OG would fit nicely.

Currently our biggest need seems to be CB, keeping in mind the concept that current needs should not be primarily addressed in the draft. We are very old at CB (our top 3 CBs are 33 on average.) Smith frankly faded to the point of irrelevance during the season and Tony Carter has a long way to go to show he is any more than a Josh Bell nice story. We could easily have to replace every CB on the roster within the next 3 years, if we are to do that we need to start now.

To my eyes DE and OLB are the needs rounding out the top 4 along with CB and OG. Smith was nowhere near where he needed to be, Holliday is getting into retirement territory, Peterson for all his media savvy is not stout enough at the point. At OLB Dumervil is a bit of a stud. Reid is a good situational player who however made most of his impact in the 40 front we run in the nickel package. Haggan is decent against the run, but has nothing against the pass unless he faces some serious broken blocking. Ayers to my eyes has a very very long way to go. He reads the run rather less well than most blind people and gave up containment often giving up huge yards, he was also pushed around a lot and he wasn’t impressive as a pass rusher – he may be better suited bulking up and kicking inside where he won’t be asked to do as many different things. We need a long term replacement for Haggan and some added pass rush to take the attention away from Dumervil.

by gyldenlove on Jan 15, 2010 12:36 PM MST reply actions  

I'm not sure I follow you on this~
I would seriously question the competence of Mcdaniels, Mccoy and Dennison if they didn’t know that

.

Getting players and players fitting are two different things and I wouldn’t go as far as to say their ‘incompetent’. These areas after a full season will be easier for them to assess and target in FA and the draft. One could argue that the injury to Ryan Harris may have cost us a game or two, it’s hard to say, but not out of the question even though Polumbus was servicable he wasn’t the Right Tackle we needed on the field. Again Hamilton may still be recovering from the head injury he sustained months before and who could have realized or even planned on that? We struggled for sure and if we are to be successful with Kyle and the Backs then the O-Line will need fixing and there is the other part, the part where player get acquainted with a new scheme. So, I wouldn’t throw them under the bus just yet.

by bfree2bronc on Jan 15, 2010 3:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Great read, Doc!

Thanks and rec’d!

" May the bandwagon jumpers bark their shins!"

by hairybear on Jan 15, 2010 2:08 PM MST reply actions  

Perfect article Emmett, thanks.
  1. Darrell Reid is a player who likes to hit hard, just ask Macho of the Eagles. I don’t we were going to witness an on-field homicide…Whew. Darrell was very good at OLB and if you watch him he rarely got tangled and out of the play when inguaged with the blocker. That’s the reason he had the blocked and tipped passes, when inguaged his football mind was still on where the ball was and his concentration was very good, especially in his first full year of duty. In my opinion Darrell Reid is the left OLB for the team and future and he should get better this year in his reads. I like his play alot.

On the ILB position..Hmm, puzzling is for sure and I agree with every word you wrote concerning DJ. He at times seemed like a duck out of water and I related that to the many different positions he has been asked to play. I hope that’s the general consenses of Nolan as well because DJ does have talent and getting more acquainted with the position can’t hurt. With his veteran experience and tenacity for tackling he could be the weapon we need in the middle. He’ll have to prove us wrong this season and drafting a very good ILB along side of him might be the ticket for the Broncos. I’ll take McClain in a minute if he is there at 10.

Spencer Larsen is a very smart, physical, tough versitile player who plays on both sides of the ball with great enthusiasm and power. I have been thinking a lot about Spences position on the team as a whole and that has been baffling to me. This is my theory and my opinion only so here it goes. McDaniels knows he has a trilateral player and a very valuable player in terms of he would be (was missed) missed if he was injured. Larsens’ special team play leaves players sprawled out over the field with his hits and that’s a part of the team we have been lacking in. My theeory is McDaniels accepts the fact that he needs him on ST and if he were to get hurt playing ILB it would be devastating. I would love to see him play along side DJ and we did a couple of times and he was on the play almost everytime. The guys a player, but McDaniels may feel he is more valuable at ST’s. Thanks Doc for great write up.

by bfree2bronc on Jan 15, 2010 3:09 PM MST reply actions  

bfree, I recall a comment of DJ's last year

I know that Colinski saw it at least once and mentioned it later, but my recollection is that DJ felt very betrayed that the Broncos dragged him out of the MLB slot after one season – he felt that he hadn’t had a fair chance to learn the position. Looking at this year – do you think that he might feel that way again, unless he’s given a couple of years (at least) to get completely into the position?

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 3:21 PM MST up reply actions  

That is the puzzling part to me..Let's hope he get's it.

I really got excited when we played Dallas and the hit he put on Roy Williams…Heck I thought they would be hauling him to the emergency room.

by bfree2bronc on Jan 15, 2010 7:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Great read ES! Even better today than last evening when you posted it with the discussion and comments.

I’m going to speculate a little here: I am going to assume that Marshall nets a 1st and a 3rd. If our OL pickups are not adequate via FA, we might see 3 OL guys taken in the 1st 5 picks. OG,OC & OT. The 1st 2 for starters, the OT for a good backup. (The other 2 might well be a DE and a CB.) The last time Denver drafted 2 OLs in the 1st two rounds was in ’83 with Chris Hinson (traded for Elway) and Mark Cooper. Hinson went on to be an all Pro.

This may seem extreme – but it certainly plugs some big holes.

Thanks everyone for your energy and comments.

by Blackknigh on Jan 15, 2010 4:31 PM MST reply actions  

Great read Emmett

I also believe that fixing the O-line should be the #1 priority this offseason. I know a lot of people are looking at player that can play Guard and Center. I preferrably would rather have a player that can play RT and Guard. Ryan Harris is a very good player when he is healthy however he has been injured half of his pro career. Harris injury concerns worry me. I think we need insurance at RT incase Harris gets injured again. It was obvious this season that Polumbus is not the answer there. What do you think about taking one of the bigger tacles with our First pick. The three I think of are.

1. Anthony Davis Rutgers- 6’6 325-335lbs. depending on what site you look at. He played Guard, RT and LT in college so he is versitle. Some things I have read about his positives

he has the size, strength, and tenacity to simply destroy defenders, especially when he gets out of the box and out to the second level. For his size, he has surprising footwork, and is equally sound run blocking as pass blocking. With a gigantic wingspan, he’s able to stun pass rushers, preventing them from ever getting traction

2. Bruce Campbell Maryland. 6’7 310 lbs Scouting report on him. He has only 17 carreer starts at Tackle so he may be a better guard.

Prototypical length and frame, Athletic freak, Displays good flexibility, Smooth, fluid hips, Outstanding ability to adjust, mirror, and recover, Elite agility and speed, Great in pass protection, Nice awareness; head on swivel and picks up blitz, Good hands; extends and locks on, Light on his feet, Instinctual, Solid run blocker, Love his footwork, Ridiculously high upside, Room to develop strength and body mass, Elite skill set

3. Trent Willaims 6’5 318 lbs.

Solid height and bulk, Long arms, Very athletic, Gets set quickly, Nice lateral movement, Consistent footwork and mirrors well, Patient; gets comfortable in stance, Gets to second level, Displays short range explosion, Light on his feet, Great balance, Instinctive; counters moves well, Nice stunt/blitz awareness, Effective hand punch, Shows ability to handle elite speed off edge

I know the 10 or 11 pick is really high to pick a player to play guard but I have concerns with the lack of depth at tackle. Also if we sign a player like Logan Mankins in the offseason the contracts would be similar. I personally would rather have a player that can play Tackle incase of injury and Ryan Harris injury history worries me. I know you can get Guard and center prospects in the 2nd round and later but I could see McDaniels doing something like this since he is unpredictable. I will probably get grilled by some people thinking this but it is an option.

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 15, 2010 5:29 PM MST reply actions  

I can see why
I know the 10 or 11 pick is really high to pick a player to play guard but I have concerns with the lack of depth at tackle.

You’re right. If you get someone with size, power and good feet who can ALSO play guard, I don’t see why 10 is too high. Clady went at what, 12? Yes, he’s brilliant and a rare find but the issue of Harris’ injuries bothers me as much as it does gnarly. I’d have to think about it, but I think that there is an argument for this, depending, of course, on the player.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 15, 2010 5:35 PM MST up reply actions  

LOL glad I am not Crazy

The Oline is my biggest concern next year and I would be happy taking an elite Tackles that can play guard also. The Oline of Clady, Davis, Pouncey(if we can get him in the 2nd or an extra 1st we get from the Bmarsh trade), Kuper and Harris would be really nice.

I found myself being jealous of the Jets watching their Oline play last week. They were constantly getting push off the ball and it was very impressive. I want a dominate Oline like that next year.

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 15, 2010 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

We also need Size

I am really sick of the small, light Olinemen Shanny always had. They always break down at the end of the season

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 15, 2010 5:53 PM MST up reply actions  

For the record...

…Draft Countdown is already listing Iupati as a ORT. He has the skill set to play either.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 15, 2010 5:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes but he worries me

because he is very raw and the level of competition he played in college. I think he will be very good but is to risky to take at 10 or 11. I would take the 3 guys I have listed above over Iupati at 10 of 11 because they are more polished players. I really like Anthony Davis but he might be gone before we pick. He has all the physical intangibles to play Guard at the next level but I do not think he can play tackle in the NFL

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 15, 2010 6:03 PM MST up reply actions  

DEFENSE Wins Games!!!

Period. End of Story. Yes, of course we need to Upgrade the interior of the O-Line. And there will be plenty of good prospects to accomplish that Starting in Round #3. But in order to WIN in the NFL, you HAVE to Stop the Run! We lost 5 games this year B/C we could not stop the run. The Chiefs, Raiders, Redskins, Steelers, and Ravens ALL pounded us B/C we were unable to stop their running games. If McClain is on the board when we pick at 10 or 11, we are NUTS if we don’t grab him! If he is already gone, then you take Dan Williams. Plain and simple. Screw taking a WR that early or anybody else! We Must strengthen our front 7 or we are looking at only 6 to 8 wins next year. What is the reason behind the success of the Jets in the past month? Defense!!! What got the Ravens to the AFC Championship last year? Defense!!! And what got the Broncos to the Super Bowl in 1977 (for those of you who can remember back that far)?? You Got It!! Defense!!! Nuff Said. Thank You for your time and attention. Lee in Tennessee

by Lee in Tennessee on Jan 16, 2010 9:16 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

I agree with the sentiments.

Disagree that the ILB’s or NT were the problem. Most of the big runs came on cut backs against the flow. That points to assignment discipline, under sized DE’s. I tend to think Ayers is improving with experience and that D.J. was clearly hobbled the last quarter of the season. IMO, a worthy 5-tech (perhaps Price or Wootten) would go further to address that problem than a Williams or McClain. I’m surprised more people aren’t concerned with Williams’ consistent work ethic, consistency and conditioning questions. I’d be stunned, from what I’ve read on him, if he was a Denver Broncos draft pick.

Though it borders on blasphemous around here, Dawkins and Hill will hardly exceptional in run support the last quarter either— lots of missed tackles (Dawkins) and suspect effort from Hill at times. So I’d be inclined to throw S into the mix also. So, IMO, DE and S are bigger priorities than either ILB or NT.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 16, 2010 9:40 AM MST up reply actions  

Respectfully Disagree

Our first priority in this year’s draft in both rounds 1 and 2 needs to be focused on the Defensive Front 7 in order to strengthen our run defense. NT in a 3-4 Defense is critically important. UT’s Dan Williams is a better choice over Alabama’s Terrance Cody due to Williams being more consistant and having more intensity. My 1st choice for Denver’s first round pick is McClain. However, I did forget about the DE out of Georgia Tech, who appears to be the best 5 Technique DE in the entire draft. If the Broncos took him with their 1st pick, I would be very pleased. I believe we are in good shape at Safety in the short term. Right now we need the most help at ILB, DL (either a solid NT or DE), and the interior of the O-Line. After those issues have been addressed, we can look at who is available at CB, WR, OT (meaning a Right Tackle), Safety, and TE. Keep in mind we may pick up some key additional draft picks if we end up trading Scheffler and/or Marshall. We may disagree on the order selection, but the bottom line is that we both want to see our team improve. I firmly believe improving the run Defense is where we MUST begin. Looking forward to the 3rd week of April!!!

by Lee in Tennessee on Jan 16, 2010 11:13 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

I agree we're in decent short-term shape at S..

…but question the need to have over $10 mil a year at ILB— especially when the Davis role is two-down and both Nolan and the Pats have a history of filling that position with solid, if not spectacular, veterans.

That said, I am a D.J. Williams fan and believe, by and large, he is far better than is reputation with most Broncos fans. He was clearly hobbled at the end of the season.

I’m not sold that the NT position isn’t solid with Fields/Thomas— and see the distinct possibility that perhaps Casey Hampton or another good veteran FA can’t be aquired at considerably less risk than Dan Williams presents.

This is the kind of stuff that adds flavor to another disappointing off season, at least.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 16, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions  

Whatever the details,
Disagree that the ILB’s or NT were the problem. Most of the big runs came on cut backs against the flow. That points to assignment discipline, under sized DE’s

PO is right on this – Martindale and Nolan both commented on this at different times, and I believe that McD did as well. As far as the belief that D wins games, period – very few teams win without scoring points, statistically speaking. I’m not trying to be rude, just teasing, but there’s a point. Our O line and our D 7 are both deeply troubled. Both have to be improved for us to move up.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Jan 16, 2010 11:37 AM MST reply actions  

This is worse than Christmas and birthday.

It’s like being able to unwrap your presents in April, but you don’t get to play with them until August. It’s torture, and it’s fan abuse.

Offseason is horrible when you hate watching baseball.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jan 16, 2010 2:39 PM MST reply actions  

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