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Matt Prater is No Kathy Ireland

If you've seen the movie Necessary Roughness, I'm very sorry.  Those are two hours of your life you're never getting back.  

If you haven't, I'll save you some time.  The best part of the movie was watching Kathy Ireland play the role of Lucy Draper, a female placekicker.  For a few brief scenes, placekicking somehow seemed...slightly more interesting.

But outside of the rare and fictional supermodel, placekickers don't get a lot of attention.   Most often they are known for either making or missing a late-game kick (i.e., Scott Norwood), or for their ability to shut down an all-you-can-eat-buffet like Sebastian Janikowski.

But we should make an exception for Matt Prater.  Not only should we be talking more about him, but we should acknowledge one fact right now: 

Matt Prater, despite playing at altitude, and without ever having done a Sports Illustrated bikini shoot, was the best kicker in the NFL in 2009.

It's too bad no one really noticed.  Not the national media.  And certainly not the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl. 

But Prater deserved to go just as much as Elvis Dumervil.  Not only was his field-goal percentage consistent all year, but the Broncos defense should make him an honorary linebacker.  That's because he was able to effectively and consistently influence the other team's field position, and in turn, its points potential.  

Just how did he do this? Follow me after the jump and we'll take a look.  We'll also give you a primer on the value of kickers in general. 

Star-divide

How Kickers Are Judged

Traditionally, kickers are judged in two ways.  First, they are judged by their accuracy.  Second, they are judged by the number of points they score.  Simple enough.

Most MHR members (and those who are fans of the Football Outsiders) know these are the wrong metrics with which to judge because they are based on two faulty premises.  First, kicker accuracy is notoriously volatile, both within a season and more specifically, between seasons.  Average and so-called Pro Bowl kickers are going to make a little over 8 out of 10 field goals. Sometimes they'll achieve a much greater accuracy than this percentage. And the very next year, they'll fall well below the average.  But there's no real correlation between a kicker's accuracy from year to year.   This year Matt Prater was at 85.7%.  Last year he was at 73.5%.  This year Jason Hanson of the Detroit Lions was at 75%.  Last year, he was at 95.5%.   

This applies to the all-time greats as well.  Perhaps the two "best" kickers of the last decade, Adam Vinatieri and Broncos legend Jason Elam, reflect this kind of volatility. Here are their career accuracy percentages side-by-side:

Year   Adam Vinatieri     Jason Elam   
2009 77.80% 63.20%
2008 80.00% 93.50%
2007 79.30% 87.10%
2006 89.30% 93.10%
2005 80.00% 75.00%
2004 93.90% 85.30%
2003 73.50% 87.10%
2002 90.00% 72.20%
2001 80.00% 86.10%
2000 81.80% 75.00%
1999 78.80% 80.60%
1998 79.50% 85.20%
1997 86.20% 72.20%
1996 77.10% 75.00%
1995 ---- 81.60%
1994 ---- 81.10%
1993 ---- 74.30%
 Average 81.94% 80.45%

 

Both of these potential Hall of Fame kickers fluctuated from year to year and both had 20-point drops from a previous year. Despite all of this oscillation, their career averages are similar to the averages of all other kickers. So, while we might be overjoyed with our kicker during a specific 4-game stretch or an entire season, and while we even might be tempted to say our kicker is elite if he's currently displaying above-average accuracy, there's no real reason to believe it will continue. Absolutely none.  

Judging kickers by the traditional points-scored system is also of little value.  Scoring a lot of points from field goals--more specifically, extra points--simply indicates that your offense is scoring a lot itself. This year's top three kickers in total scoring were Nate Kaeding (San Diego), David Akers (Philadelphia), and Ryan Longwell (Minnesota).  All three of these teams were in the top 11 in points.   So the number of points a kicker scores is simply a reflection of his team's offense, not necessarily a reflection of how "good" a kicker might be.  After all, chip-shot extra points can really add up.

More important, though, is that the traditional scoring system fails to account for a very important event after the field goal, which is the Expected Points Value of the opponent's kickoff return.  

 

The Value of Touchbacks And Kickoffs

If all NFL-caliber kickers are going to average around 80% in field-goal accuracy, then what additional value does an individual kicker add?  The answer lies in how they influence field position and the points expectation of the opponent.

A few times this year I have written about a team's expected points value.  Every down and distance on the field has an expected number of points whether for the offense or defense.  In the case of a touchback, the expected points value for our opponent is -.226.  This means, statistically, over the long term, there is a negative point value associated with our opponent facing a 1st and 10 at their own 20-yard line.  So if our kicker could theoretically get us a touchback on every kickoff, we'd be ensuring (again, in the long-term) a point value for us of .226, or the exact opposite of our opponent's value (our opponent's negative values are our positive values).

Since most kickoffs are returned somewhere between the 20- and 30-yard line, it´s interesting to see just how these values change as a result of distance:

 Down  Distance  Yard-Line  Expected Points Value 
1 10 20 -0.226
1 10 21 -0.155
1 10 22 -0.084
1 10 23 -0.014
1 10 24 0.056
1 10 25 0.126
1 10 26 0.196
1 10 27 0.266
1 10 28 0.336
1 10 29 0.408
1 10 30 0.48

 

From these values, it's clear that getting a touchback carries the most value for a defense.    At the 24-yard line, the values change from negative to positive, so the ideal situation for a football team is to find a kicker who can generate touchbacks or marginal return yards.  The other alternative is to have such a stellar coverage unit that other team never gets past the 23-yard line.  But the 2nd option is unrealistic.  

To drive this point home, let's try a little thought experiment.  Let's imagine that we have 11 different kickers.  Each kicker is assigned to one of these 11-yard markers above.  So our first kicker always gets us a touchback.  Our second kicker always puts the opponent at the 21-yard line.  And so on and so forth.   And let's assume that each kicker has 80 kickoffs during a year (this year's league average after rounding).  We can simply multiply these 80 kickoffs by the expected points values to show us the total expected points of these hypothetical kickers. The following table shows how this would look:

 Down  Distance  Yard-Line  Expected Points Value  Kickoffs  Total Points 
1 10 20 -0.226 80 -18.08
1 10 21 -0.155 80 -12.4
1 10 22 -0.084 80 -6.72
1 10 23 -0.014 80 -1.12
1 10 24 0.056 80 4.48
1 10 25 0.126 80 10.08
1 10 26 0.196 80 15.68
1 10 27 0.266 80 21.28
1 10 28 0.336 80 26.88
1 10 29 0.408 80 32.64
1 10 30 0.48 80 38.4

 

These are interesting numbers indeed.  The kicker who always gives us a touchback will, over the course of the season, give our team an extra 18.08 points (the -18.08 is a positive number for our team) just through his kickoff ability alone. Conversely, the poorest kicker in the group, whose opponents always begin their drives at the 30-yard line, actually costs our team 38.4 points over the season.   The point differential between the two kickers is an astounding 56.48 points over the course of the season.  So 10 yards matter more than you realize.  Even 1 yard over the course of a season would translate to a differential of 5 to 6 points, or almost a touchdown.

Now that we have a good grasp of this concept we can apply the same points analysis to Prater and other kickers with much more acclaim than he (and more Pro-Bowls).  First, we subtract touchbacks from the total number of kickoffs in order to get the total non-touchbacks of each kicker.  Then we pull the opponent's average starting field position on kickoffs so that we can estimate an expected points value for each kickoff.  We could have pulled each and every kickoff for each kicker, but the averages provided much greater utility.  Finally we simply add the points generated as a result of touchbacks to the points that each kicker has generated on their other kickoffs during the season.  Here are the results:

Player# - Kick=offsTouchbacksPoints Value - TBTotal Points- TouchbacksOpponent's Avg. Start. Fld Pos.Expected Points ValueTotal EP - Kick-offsTotal Points -Touch Backs & Kick-offs
Ryan Longwell 98 5 -0.226 1.13 28 0.336 -31.25 -30.12
Nate Kaeding 97 9 -0.226 2.03 28 0.336 -29.57 -27.53
Mason Crosby 94 12 -0.226 2.71 30 0.48 -39.36 -36.65
David Akers 94 11 -0.226 2.49 28 0.336 -27.89 -25.40
Stephen Gostkowski 91 21 -0.226 4.75 26 0.196 -13.72 -8.97
Lawrence Tynes 86 6 -0.226 1.36 29 0.408 -32.64 -31.28
Jay Feely 82 10 -0.226 2.26 27 0.266 -19.15 -16.89
Rob Bironas 81 7 -0.226 1.58 30 0.48 -35.52 -33.94
Matt Prater 78 28 -0.226 6.33 24 0.056 -2.80 3.53


First, notice the points as a result of touchbacks.  The only other kicker on this list of esteemed kickers that even touches Prater is Stephen Gostkowski of the Patroits, who generated for his team the equivalent of 4.7 points.   Out of Prater's 78 kickoffs, he had 28 touchbacks.  This was the equivalent of almost a full touchdown for the Broncos this year.  

One might be inclined to say that there is not a lot of spread between Pro Bowler Nate Keading's 2.03 points and Prater's 6.32 points from touchbacks, when extrapolated across the entire season.  But consider that 6 points is enough to swing 1 or possibly 2 games per year.  In other words, touchbacks matter.  Touchbacks translate into points.  Points translate into wins.  

Prater is even more impressive after taking into account all other kickoffs.  Prater was the only kicker on this list that still had a positive expected points value.   This is due to the fact that Denver's opponents only started at the 24-yard line. Prater's leg strength and hang time were simply better than this list of Pro Bowl kickers. So before we even begin counting points scored from field goals, Matt Prater was the only non-kickoff specialist in the NFL in 2009 who had a positive expected points value. 

 

The Value of a Field Goal

A field goal is not worth 3 points, at least not in the way you are thinking.  From an expected points view, on average a field goal is worth 3 points minus the expected points value of where the opposition begins its next drive.  In 2009, the average starting field position for kickoffs was about the 27-yard line.  At the 27-yard line, our opponents have an expected points value of .266.  So, in general, a field goal in 2009 was worth about 2.74 points (.266 subtracted from 3).  The same principle can be applied to touchdowns, but we'll leave this topic for another time.  

This is an important concept because it demonstrates Matt Prater's value even further.  Every time the Broncos scored a field goal or a touchdown, the expected points value of the opponent's starting field position could have been subtracted (or possibly added) to the value of the previous field goal.   So the further back Prater pinned the opposition after a field goal, the more the field goal was worth.

Let's take a look at a real example of this.  In Week 1 against Cincinnati, Matt Prater kicked a field goal with 19 seconds remaining in the 3rd quarter.  When Cincinnati got the ball back, they returned the kickoff to their own 15-yard line.  Since the expected points value of having a 1st and 10 at the 15-yard line is  -.583, the value of Prater's field goal was actually 3.583 points, since the Bengal's negative expected points value was positive for the Broncos. If Cincinnati would have returned the kickoff to the 30-yard line, their expected points value for that down and distance would have been .48.  Thus, Prater's field goal would have been worth 2.52 points since we would have subtracted the opposition's positive points expectation.

The good news is that we have already counted these field-position values for field goals when we did the analysis of touchbacks and kickoffs.  So this means our last step is to award a full 3 points of value to every field goal for every kicker on our list.  Here's how Prater stacked up:

Player   FG -Attempts     Points/FG  (or subrated on miss)     Total Points - Field Goals   
Ryan Longwell 26-28 3 72
Nate Kaeding 32-35 3 87
Mason Crosby 27-36 3 54
David Akers 32-37 3 81
Stephen Gostkowski 26-31 3 63
Lawrence Tynes 27-32 3 66
Jay Feely 30-36 3 72
Rob Bironas 27-32 3 66
Matt Prater 30-35 3 75

To be even more precise, we subtracted the points from those field goals that were missed by each kicker.   One could go through each missed field goal and pull the exact points that were lost as a result of the miss.  Or one could simply use an average NFL field goal of 35 yards and assume that the negative expected points value from the miss would be -2.806 (this is what it costs if you miss a field goal on a typical 4th-and-5 from the 25-yard line).   Or we could simplify the process even further and subtract 3 points for each miss, which is what we did.  

The Final Verdict

Now that we've explored points from touchbacks, points from kickoffs, and points from field goals, we are in a position of determining which of these kickers had the best season.  We merely add the points generated from touchbacks and kickoffs to the points generated from field goals:

PlayerTotal Points- TouchbacksTotal Points - KickoffsTotal Points - Field GoalsTotal Points
Ryan Longwell 1.13 -31.25 72 41.88
Nate Kaeding 2.03 -29.57 87 59.466
Mason Crosby 2.71 -39.36 54 17.352
David Akers 2.49 -27.89 81 55.598
Stephen Gostkowski 4.75 -13.72 63 54.026
Lawrence Tynes 1.36 -32.64 66 34.716
Jay Feely 2.26 -19.15 72 55.108
Rob Bironas 1.58 -35.52 66 32.062
Matt Prater 6.33 -2.80 75 78.528

Keading and Akers were both selected to this year's Pro Bowl team, but from this analysis, Matt Prater was almost a full 20 points better.  Prater was significantly more important to his team's ability to score points. Not even the altitude-skews-everything-in-Denver crowd can look at these figures and legitimately deny that Prater had an exceptional year.  Also, considering that Prater had a higher field-goal percentage and a longer average kickoff distance on the road, it's simply not that easy to dismiss Prater's accomplishments.  

But let's face it, even at altitude, Prater is no Kathy Ireland.

He's just a Pro Bowl kicker.

If only someone had noticed. 

 

Note: Special thanks to Professor Wayne Winston of Indiana University for access to his exhaustive and extensive expected points value data.  

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Nice article!

Breaking down the kickers…nice. I must say that it felt like Prater had an ok year but not a great year. But now I feel even better about Prater and the future of our special teams. I would like to see Matt make a few pressure kicks next year to cement his status as an elite kicker in the league.

by CastorTroy on Jan 17, 2010 9:42 AM MST reply actions  

Thanks, CastorT

When I started on this piece, I had no preconceived notions of Prater’s value other than what you just described. I was blown away when I realized that he had significantly more value than I had expected.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions  

great work TJ

though I’m having a lot of trouble shaking the image of Prater doing an SI swimsuit shoot — some things should just never happen (though I could go with a Supermodel on our team. LOL)

"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by BShrout on Jan 17, 2010 9:43 AM MST reply actions  

BShrout! Respect. I love your Madden research with your first assistant. Keep that up!

Kathy Ireland in the vertical striped socks?

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Kathy Ireland in vertical stripped socks. :)

That’s an idea I can get “behind”

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 17, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions  

ummmmmm.....

In only the socks?

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 17, 2010 4:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Maybe a fitted cap too.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 17, 2010 6:45 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Awesome work TJ

Great read!

Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands

by BroncosNL on Jan 17, 2010 9:46 AM MST reply actions  

Thanks, mate, as awlays!

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:24 AM MST up reply actions  

Great insight again TJ

Now, if Kathy Ireland could kick like Prater, we just would have to sign her to the roster and the SI swimsuit shoot problem would be gone.
And if some people would learn to make good movies, the “2 hours of your life”-problem would be solved too. LOL
But back to the topic:
Wouldn’t you have to factor in the missed fieldgoals by the lost yardage (and the factor for the ensuing fieldposition) somehow?
And also: You would have to subtract all the FGA, which were the last play of any half?
But in a nutshell: if we keep Prater, i feel like we have one less area in our game to address. That feels good, for some reason or another ;-)

What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

by veech on Jan 17, 2010 10:13 AM MST reply actions  

I was thinking that too

as far as taking the expected points of opponent field position after a missed field goal attempt into account. I imagine, however, that unless any of these kickers missed a substantial number of kicks fewer than Prater, then it wouldn’t affect the numbers too much. Kaeding missed only three field goals, but Prater missed only five.

As far as the field goals at the end of the half, no worries there. Since there was no ensuing kickoff, that stats are not getting adjusted for opponent field position. So, if they made the end-of-half kick, then they simply got three points, if they missed, they got zero (and we even get the bonus of not having to worry about the above situation).

Great article TJ. Although I thought my “if we ignore him, he will continue kicking well” mantra was a good one, it is time that Prater gets some well-deserved props. It was pretty ridiculous how much belly-aching went on in the game threads for each kick he missed. Prater is rounding into a great kicker! Go Broncos!

by poorboywilly on Jan 17, 2010 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Jason, Thanks for the read and good points. You and veech are on top of this.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Jason, it's updated now to include this. Good points, my friend.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:23 AM MST up reply actions  

Veech, yes. You've got a keen eye, my friend.

I must admit that as I was getting close to finishing this I thought, well, I should probably go back through every field goal attempt and do this and take away the expected points. So I wavered. And of course, every time I underestimate MHR (or think I need to simplify something so that I don’t lose casual readers), I get a great comment like this. It really is a joy to post here because I really can’t get lazy. I’ll got back later and put this in. Thanks, Veech. I can go back and simply use the averages again for the misses and subtract the points. I’ll go ahead and do that.

Regarding the misses at the half, they wouldn’t need to be adjusted since there is no follow-on possession that comes.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 10:39 AM MST up reply actions  

Veech, I went back and just assumed 3 points for a missed field goal. The actual value would likely be on average

a negative 2.806, but I wanted to simplify just a little more.

Thanks again for reading and pointing this out! MHR has the best members.

Good stuff. It changed a guy like Mason Crosby significantly because he had 9 missed field goals, so going back was useful indeed.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

You Da Man TJ

Incredible,
but THIS place has writers, that take comments seriously.
And I’m blown away by all you guys with your willingness, after already having spent buckets of time into an article, to go back and invest some more time.
I already rec’d this post, so I wish I also had a ThumbsUp-button for “even more appreciation”. g

What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

by veech on Jan 17, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Welcome to Foot....

BALLS.

That’s a great movie! Scott Bakula, a 85 year old with eligibility left, Sinbad providing “comic” relief and Kathy Ireland with the eye candy.

Anyways… I had just about given up on Prater early this year (3rd or 4th game?) when he wasn’t getting touchbacks, then he seemed to turn it on and was a touchback machine after that. I do think Berger helped the kid though.

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Jan 17, 2010 10:16 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

Darin, the movie ain't too bad, but I needed a lead:-)

Interesting point you raise with Berger. I wonder if this will come out. Perhaps Berger was more useful “mentally” for Prater than anything else.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:23 AM MST up reply actions  

TJ, thanks for rectifying my only problem with your article as originally written.

A waste of time?!?!? I spent many hours watching that movie over and over and over….GREAT football movie!

“Show us the arm, son.”
“He means throw the football, genius.”

Awesome article, though. Thanks for the great work, as always!

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 17, 2010 12:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Prater

Interestingly the same year Elam went to Atlanta, Prater came over from Atlanta. Last year it looked like Atlanta did the right thing, but this year? Elam is gone and Prater is becoming a very very good kicker in this league. He has very good distance and height on his kicks and his accuracy is good. Most importantly he showed this year that he can kick an entire season without wearing out like he did in his first full year.

by gyldenlove on Jan 17, 2010 10:43 AM MST reply actions  

Glydenlove, those same thoughts were in my mind when I looked at that as well.

Looks like Shanny was pretty smart to let him get away at the time, eh?

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

I liked that movie.I have seen it many times

The "Broncos" stitched on the front of the uniform is more important than "Cutler" or "Marshall" stitched on the back of the jersey - Coach McD

by Welcome2Dumervil on Jan 17, 2010 10:57 AM MST reply actions  

WD2D. No worries. It's not "playmakers" LOL, but it will do:-)

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 11:21 AM MST up reply actions  

Watching Erin Gray as Colonel Wilma Deering in Buck Rogers

made me want to watch Sci-Fi films even more, not that it had much to do with football. But I digress…

If Kyle Orton was voted by the players as the most underrated player, surely Matt Prater would be a close 2nd, based on his performance.

Thanks for pointing out the “Value of Touchbacks And Kick-offs.” Prater’s points for Denver off of his touchbacks and sheer number of touchbacks blew me away. I think it’s a no-brainer that he’s a keeper and I loved the fact that his leg stayed strong throughout the season.

Very nice, as always TJ!

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche

by Horsepower on Jan 17, 2010 11:37 AM MST reply actions  

Kathy Ireland

You probably had a great article on kickers and Prater, but my attention span about kickers was significantly reduced by thinking about Kathy.

Yummy!

by Tom G on Jan 17, 2010 11:45 AM MST reply actions  

I think she could probably pull off the throwback uni with vertical-striped socks.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 4:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Kicking at altitude is different

I love Prater dearly and was his supporter last year when many called for his head. But kickoffs in Denver are different and altitude needs to be accounted for statistically. I’d say it would be fair to only count ROAD games for Prater. Or we need to figure exactly how many yards altitude adds to kickoffs and subtract from Prater’s home results

by si_ice on Jan 17, 2010 12:28 PM MST reply actions  

if altitude is to be tracked, would dome kickers be astericked too?

I think it would be terribly hard to track weather and conditions for each player/team. Especially during the winter months even in the thinner air. Gostkowski and Longwell (without looking in depth) would seem to be at a weather disadvantage vs. Keading over the later half of the season.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 17, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Ice, it's a fair point to be certain. The estimates are 4 yards for altitude, but it can be tough....

to get a handle on this. The football outsiders try to make generalizations based on hot/cold, dome/altitude, but not on a specific stadium.

As exile says, in a dome it’s temperature controlled, so they have an advantage as well since, as we all know, the ball travels a shorter distance in the cold.

And if we really take all of this to its conclusion, let’s go back to every single kick and adjust for temperate, altitude, humidity, and wind at the moment when the kicker strikes the ball. This would be the fairest way.

I’ll give it some more thought, though. No matter the circumstance, however, it became clear to me Prater was an excellent kicker this year.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

kicking adjustments by FO.com

Indeed, Football Outsiders does the very rough adjustments mentioned by TJ, as well as one for “Denver”… which they also used for the Mexico City game as an altitude adjustment.

BTW: How did Prater do in FootballOutsiders stats this year? Is that data available yet?

My sense is Prater had a very good year. I wasn’t overwhelmed by greatness, but I am perfectly comfortable with him as a long-term solution to solid and reliable kicking. With the added bonus that he doesn’t need a KO-specialist, so he saves roster space.

by cjfarls on Jan 19, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

thanks TJ for your hard work. I'm always impressed.

I would love to know how many people come to read these “STDL” pieces from across the sbnation sites. I don’t see these types of in depth analysis articles anywhere else I browse.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 17, 2010 12:37 PM MST reply actions  

That's BE! I am not sure. There is a stats guy on the Colts site that has a piece called

…Inside the numbers, but it’s very specific to the Colts game. I spoken with him before. He’s a nice guy. So I’m not sure.

I know we get some traffic for those STDL pieces from the Jags, the Chiefs, the Colts, and the Steelers. Not sure how many more. I know the SB Nation network is one big entity, so I am sure they encourage this sort of thing.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 4:23 PM MST up reply actions  

great article TJ

I never thought prater was comparable to other great kickers, but I guess he is.

Another stat I’d like to see is clutch FG’s made. I think wen most ppl think bak to great kickers, they remember them for their big kicks, and not just the game ending ones. I’d like to see the stats of prater and others in the 4th quarter or with kicks wen the game was within one possesion. I think the great kickers shine at those times, and I want to see if prater is among them

by DBroncs1414 on Jan 17, 2010 1:20 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

DB, let me see if I can work this into the article...if I can get this today, I'll put it in and reply to this with an update

Thanks for the great idea, mate.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions  

That would be great if you could TJ

I’ve always been interested in clutch FG numbers, but the only ones ever given are the 2 u mentioned, and those are always misleading

by DBroncs1414 on Jan 17, 2010 3:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Great work, TJ,, but

The voting fans simply will not pour over those numbers to select their kicker. I doubt even those in the coaching ranks pay too close attention to them—at least, I’ve never seen it. What Matt needs is a couple last-second, long distance, game saving kicks to launch him into public awareness. That is what got Vinatieri all the press.

BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!

by AZDynamics on Jan 17, 2010 2:53 PM MST reply actions  

AZ = Truth Speaker

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 4:19 PM MST up reply actions  

shouldn't the miss field goals (-3 points) also have the expected points value subtracted

from where the other teams gets the ball?

CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!

by RiG on Jan 17, 2010 3:28 PM MST reply actions  

or added if its a miss from the 2?

CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!

by RiG on Jan 17, 2010 3:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Rig, yes, they would. The average kick of 35 yards in the NFL would amount to a loss of

-2.80 points. You are correct. I just rounded up to 3 for simplicity sake. But you are correct.

If I wanted to be even more precise, I would go into each and every miss and look at the distance and the expected points value before the play and the expected points of the 1st down where my opponent takes over. This would give me the exact numbers.

But obviously that would take some more time. It might be worth doing. And yet, I don’t think the conclusion would change much regarding Prater.

But, Rig, you are 100% accurate, my friend.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 17, 2010 4:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Great post dude..

Prater is a good kicker no doubt and he has silenced most of the Prater-haters this last season. I believe next season he’ll start getting some love. I hope so anyway.

by bfree2bronc on Jan 17, 2010 5:29 PM MST reply actions  

Oh and by the way...Kaeding is choking the pooch today!

I guess he would rather go to the ProBowl the go to the Super Bowl…Hah!

by bfree2bronc on Jan 17, 2010 5:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks, Bfree, I think you are right, usually there is a delay of about a year....like with Clady.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 18, 2010 12:37 AM MST up reply actions  

Awesome work, as usual, Dude.

Another thing I would add to this is a kicker’s ability to kick in a big game. Certainly, a kicker should put up a lot of points, but they have to be able to be relied upon in a huge playoff game. Kaeding, for instance, missed 3 field goals today that certainly would have changed the complexion of the game. Vanderjagt is another kicker that comes to mind of being really good in regular season play, but he’ll be remembered for missing the field goal against Pittsburgh in the 2005 playoffs.

Certainly, Prater is a valuable kicker with your value scale, which is definitely a valid scale. He puts a lot of points on the board and has lots of touchbacks, however, we cannot measure his true worth until he called upon in a playoff game with the game on the line. That is how a kicker is measured, IMO.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.

by kentuckybronco on Jan 17, 2010 7:52 PM MST reply actions  

KB, I regret that I did not include so-called "clutch" kicks in my analysis, but really, Prater hasn't had the opportunity...

so I may not have that ability with him.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 18, 2010 12:38 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, hopefully you will after next season's playoff run.

hint hint

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.

by kentuckybronco on Jan 18, 2010 7:45 AM MST up reply actions  

As shown by today's San Diego loss

And that loss several years ago caused by Anderson (Morten or the other one, can’t remember) of the Vikings when he was 100% during the regular season and missed crucial kick in playoffs can we assume that long streaks of great kicking are essentially flukes. Like flipping an 80% coin and it eventually coming up tails?

by Dwhite on Jan 17, 2010 8:18 PM MST reply actions  

Dwhite

I think that yes, it’s just a matter of time before they regress to the mean. Just happened to do it in the most important game of the year. Ouch.

"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

by TJ Johnson on Jan 18, 2010 12:38 AM MST up reply actions  

Good read as always!

Now all we need is Manu-Manu the Slender!

by RalphW on Jan 18, 2010 5:21 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

Great post

Dude, you’re always an excellent source of 80s movie material. I think my favorite line from “Necessary Roughness” is “Don’t throw it to stone-hands!!” (while waving arms frantically) and I use it to this day.

Mmmmm, Kathy Ireland.

And oh yeah good info on Prater, but I had a hard time thinking past Kathy Ireland. ;)

by AllBroncsallday on Jan 18, 2010 10:02 AM MST reply actions  

Sorry I'll just have

to believe you when you say he should have been a pro-bowl kicker. Too many numbers and percentages for me to really follow along. I’m a little slow when it comes to stuff like that. I did give the article a rec tho because you did put a lot of work into it that deserved a rec.

by papasteven on Jan 18, 2010 3:12 PM MST reply actions  

Sorry I'm late

Very excellent post Dude. This is outstanding!
However, I think you’d better check with Coach Gennarro to see if Lucy is available. Perhaps we could sign Manu for our O-Line.
And Necessary Roughness wasn’t THAT bad, even if it was a “B” Movie.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 19, 2010 8:39 PM MST reply actions  

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