Poll of the Week, 1/18/10 - Are the Broncos headed in the right direction?
It is weekly poll time! A new Monday tradition here at MHR. For a running tally of 'Polls Past' check out below -
1/11/10 - What to get for Brandon Marshall?? - Nearly 2000 people answered, with 65% saying they would take a 1st Round pick for Marshall
As the weeks go on, that list will grow as more polls are added.
On to this week's poll. I wanted to let the sting of the 2009 season subside a bit before asking a very important question. This has been a year of change in Denver, from top-to-bottom. That said, time for a look-see into the psyche of Broncos fans. Like last time, this is a "simple" Yes or No question.
Feel free to talk about your answer in the comments -
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Voted yes because I like the move to 3-4 defense as well as McD's offense and team-first approach
This was however his first year and so I’d prefer to wait at least one more season (ideally 2) to really judge this teams progress under McD.
I do like the move to the 3-4. That was smart.
I very much don’t like McD’s offense. Not sure why any Bronco fan would at this point.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Offense is a mess
But there was a difference in the offensive play when Harris was in the lineup at RT.
The rationale is that the system is so complex that it take awhile to gel (not sure if I buy that), another argument could be that we didn’t have the right players to execute the system well.
I’d like to see what another year of offensive personnel change-ups gets us.
I agree that we need another year to see what happens. Based on year 1, it was awful.
Injuries do happen though and if it’s not Harris next season, it will be someone(s) else. And was our O any good with him in the lineup? I don’t know. We struggled like crazy to score vs Cincy and Dallas. Were just okay vs Cleveland, Oakland and NE. I’d say that at no point, was our offense great in 2009. A good game here or there, but nothing sustained.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Right. I'm curious about this power running animal.
Does it take such specialized players that we have to have exactly the right chemistry to get anything accomplished? It seemed like the one-cut system of Shanahan and Turner could crank out great results with whatever talent happened to be on the roster. I know that may be a misconception. In any case, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a running back really break out and haul in a big play for Denver. Performances like Greene put up against the chargers yesterday, or like Adrian Peterson normally shows, or Jones-Drew, or any other number of top-tier running back contributions, make it look like Denver is treading water. I had high hopes for Knowshon, and I still do. What causes the huge runs? Is it scheme/playcalling, offensive line/blocking talent, or running back talent? I assume it’s a combination of the three, but some guys seem to make holes out of nothing for themselves, which KM did not do this year.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Maybe we need more passing efficiency to set up the run.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
after only one year I look more towards his work in NE still
we’ll know a lot more this fall
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 18, 2010 4:35 PM MST up reply actions
i voted yes too
but it was pretty hard for me. Let’s repost this poll after the draft and free-agency…
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 18, 2010 4:33 PM MST up reply actions
2-8 over the last ten games as the players got more comfortable with their coaches. Home losses to KC and Oakland. An anemic effort in a must win home game vs KC. Never ending public disputes between players and staff. Young players that regressed or looked lost most of the season.
If this is the right direction, I hope we head in the wrong direction next season. I prefer a direction where Denver actually plays well in the 2nd half of the season. I prefer a direction where our players and coaches back up their words.
It’s fun to watch them lose, but I’m tired of rooting against San Diego every January. I’d much rather be rooting for Denver.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
by McGeorge on Jan 18, 2010 12:47 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Handle the mess in house
This is my biggest concern/complaint about the new regime. We all know Marshall was a baby TO, but why go through a public spectacle every time he acts up?
by mt_griz99 on Jan 18, 2010 1:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I feel that 2-8 was more other teams figuring us out
We managed to surprise some teams early on as they did not have any video on us early. I think that once they saw what we were doing and adjusted we started to struggle.
Add in our lack of depth on the O-Line, changing blocking schemes and still rebuilding from a complete lack of cohesive talent on the defense the 2-8 does not surprise me. Pisses me off, but not a true surprise.
If the other teams figured us out. You’d like to think your coaches had some wrinkles up their sleeve to counter our opponents moves.
I like to think that anyway.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Valid point
But when part of being figured out is “if we stunt our best linemen to the middle they can get away from the o-line’s strengths” then there is not a lot that can be done.
I still think the collapse of the o-line was HUGE in the adjustments and the inability to find anyone who would not be blown up at center or guard consistently hurt pretty bad
Why didn’t they try Olsen when Hoch and Ben were getting smoked every game? It couldn’t get much worse than Hoch and Hamilton.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Every team has weaknesses that get exposed during a season. It’s how the coaches mask those flaws THROUGHOUT the season that makes good coaches winners and bad coaches losers.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Especially a coach touted an offensive genius.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
With you on this one....
I was extremely disappointed in our offensive and defensive adjustments down the stretch. Why not work on a new play from that huge playbook?
yeah there's much to that point i think.
We’ll see how adjust going into year two. Another effort like this year… won’t be good.
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 18, 2010 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
Heres the thing...........
In 1995 we finished 8-8 then turned around and posted 13-3 the very next season. I am sure a lot of people didn’t think we were headed in the right direction after the 1995 season either. You can’t tell anything about a new coach/system/team after only one season. Incidentally, I chose the 1995 season because it was Shanahan’s first as head coach of the Broncos. Just saying.
by Broncanatic on Jan 18, 2010 2:25 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I was not happy about it
And I wanted shanny’s head after the Jacksonville game.
And he had Elway.....
always hope with arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
Yes, but...
I like the direction so far, but this reloading-season could go a long way in easing some fears. FA and the draft will tell us if they are serious about fixing some glaring woes or if McD already thinks he sees the talent needed on this roster. Specifically I have the O line in mind. I think upgrading the talent there will help the rest of the team across the board. If he pulls a Shanny and stands pat, I’ll be concerned. Kenny Chesney is not the answer at O line.
Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?
Shanny stand pat? What. Shanny was IMO, way too agressive using UFA to fill gaps in our roster due to weak drafts.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
that's a fact and if it didn't make me throw up, I'd list Walker, Henry, Colbert, Manual, Crowder, Moss
Compared to those messes the last 3 years, I’m totally liking the direction this team is headed.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 18, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
I was not a fan of Shanny’s 2006(and on) direction for Denver and I don’t like McDaniel’s direction either (since it is getting us nowhere). Compared to the messes of 2006 thru 2008, we still find ourselves in the same place one year after McDaniels arrived.
That is how I see it.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Where were we going?
And what exactly did you expect in the first season after Shanny left?
Please share with us where the Broncos actually failed to live up to the expectations you had and what they could have done differently.
The offense failed my expectations miserably. We had the #2 offense in yards gained in 2008. We were something like 21 in that stat this season. And we also scored fewer points. Eddie Royal & Hillis vanished. Clady got worse and looked disinterested vs KC, Scheff went AWOL, Moreno was just okay (by rookie RB 1st round pick standards), the interior O-line was pitiful, our only great skill position player likely shot his way out of town, Orton got figured out by our opponents and we showed minimal to no improvement as a team as the year progressed.
That is not what anyone at MHR expected. If you read this site before the season, the vibe was we’d start slow and improve as the players learned the system. Well, the opposite happened and that is not a good sign for our future my friend.
Our return game and punting were awful. Our home field advantage is dead and the officiating sucked pretty bad all season (thanks a lot Ed Hocueli).
On the flip side, The D beat my expectations by quite a bit. Hats off to them (expect Alphonso Smith, whom I believe was a wasted pick). I love the 3-4 switch and think the secondary had a great season. We created a lot more TOs, which was a big +. Prater was also very very good, much to my surprise, but not to those at MHR.
I thought we’d go 7-9 before the season started and we went 8-8 with another historic collapse. Whip-de-do. If that is progress. then progress is disappointing.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
by McGeorge on Jan 18, 2010 2:23 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
oh no, not yards gained again
Can we retire that stat please?
How much of your failed expectations can be a first year curve? Do you think next year will be better? Do you imagine improvements and a better record next year?
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 18, 2010 2:35 PM MST up reply actions
Right now. Of course not! We finished 2-8 and looked like a 1-15 type team in home losses to KC and Oakland. How the hell you guys think we’re somehow looking good for a playoff run in 2010 is a mystery to me. Did you watch the last two months of the season? Did you watch the KC game? The Oakland game?
After the draft, FA, the Marshall’s situation, and any other public relations fiascos that seem to follow McDaniels around… we’ll all know much more for making calls on 2010.
Right now, TODAY. It’s not looking good.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Even Shanahan lost to KC once a year,
and lost to oakland at home, etc. I don’t know what caused it, but the past is not an indicator of the future. Look at the Titans. Look at the Jets. Look at the Giants. Look at the Steelers. Look at the Bengals. Look at the Broncos. Look at almost anything! Hell, flip a coin, and you’ll see that the laws of probability do lead to predicting. The NFL is either fixed, or it’s a Roulette wheel. I haven’t decided which. But just when you think you have a sure thing the perfect season goes 18-1.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Makes sense
And yes the officiating was painful at times…but we cannot do anything about that.
We did rack up a LOT of yards between the 20’s last year. Which boosted that ranking. More importantly this year we scored fewer points. 23.1 last year, 20.4 this year. Being a Hillis fan i am hopeful that whatever happened to him either gets corrected or that he is allowed to go somewhere that he can show his talents.
Return game was a push between this year and last year. Both were awful and I hope that something changes there.
Punters made me sick to my stomach both years. Overkicking your coverage is just as bad as “booming” a punt for 18 yards out of bounds…
Totally agree on the defense, HUGE surprise, but they got exposed horribly.
Now, the one thing that changed this year, and to me this is pretty huge, is turnovers…We have beat this to death, but last year we were -17 in turnovers. Partially because we only had 13 takeaways, but also partially because we had Jay “what safety?” Cutler slinging the ball around. This year our Defense created more turnovers AND our offense gave up fewer so we were +7. This happened even after we became one dimensional after about week 10 (maybe even a bit before) and turned into a throw it, throw it, and throw it some more offense.
Now, Moreno is part of the turnover issue, and he has got to hold on to the rock, but with that o-line I though he did a very solid job all season so I don’t feel he is a failure even with his 1st round status.
Overall I do agree with some of your thoughts on the season, but I think there was real progress for the first time since 2006. Hopefully I am right!
"What safety?" LMAO
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I agree with most of the problems you stated.
However, I still think this year was all played in the middle of a u-turn. The new direction should now be set, and we should start to gain traction in that direction. I don’t know if “direction” is an apt analogy. Identity may be a better one. This 2009 team was a study in morphism. What would it look like if McDaniels and Shanahan had a kid together? You get a pretty homely 2009 Broncos team. I may sound a bit genocidal, but when we purify the gene pool, if you will, the identity will be much clearer, and more attractive.
Facts on which to support my claims? See me after the 2010 season. Right now it’s a guess based upon my perception of the world.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Jan 18, 2010 2:55 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Read my comments
Above, we had the exact same record in 1995. Then went 13-3 the next year and got pommeled by the Jags at home! What happened after that was the sweetest years of my life! So basically you expected us to end up 7-9, we go 8-8 and you think it is a disaster? To expect a coach to come in and take a team that was 8-8 and turn them into something that would please you McGeorge is a monumental task if you ask me.
9-7 would have pleased me if it meant we looked good at the end of the season, not looking like ####.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
yeah there are definately different looking 8-8's!!
Ours wasn’t real nice
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 18, 2010 5:14 PM MST up reply actions
Fair enough
I guess what I had in mind was the weak defenses he fielded over the last few years while talking about the quality talent on the team. By “standing pat” I mean he never did address the weaknesses of the defensive talent, just changed coordinators. IMO, he could’ve stuck with Coyer and just made a better attempt at getting him some players to work with. Instead, he stood on the players and got a completely different coach and scheme.
Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?
way too agressive?
I’m thinking of many many great FA pick-ups! One thing about free agency is you can get talent without a huge initial investment.
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 18, 2010 4:40 PM MST up reply actions
Yes but more questions...
I am pleased with how the Defense is shaping up, the scrubs Nolan worked with turned out pretty well… It’s a promising scheme that needs another year of FA signings and competent drafting
I’m not happy with the fade in the last quarter of the season, the team totally tuned out out the coaches towards the end. Losing to Oakland at home for the past two season brings my piss to a boil.
The offense looks anemic, Orton choked when it needed him the most. Yes the O-line was hurt and they were in a scheme transition, but his lack of playmaking ability really hurt us towards the end…
um, tuned out the coaches?
I think you would’ve saw quit in the team if that were the case. I saw mistakes, over pursuing, out of position, some tiredness, but maybe beyond a player or two I didn’t see any quit or lack of effort.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 18, 2010 1:07 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope. Just really sloppy play when it mattered most – late in the year. I suppose that doesn’t fall on the coaches whatsoever.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Definately not the players either.
Players saying they wished the season was over, and others slacking off in practice/being late. You’re right. All McD.
I don’t think we are going to get past the mess Shanny left of the team until we get rid of Shanny’s fingerprints on the team.
Here’s the thing about that verdict: How do you differentiate tuning out the coaches from having weaknesses that got exposed? Like BroncoInExile, I think the biggest change was that teams started taking advantage of linebackers, especially DJ and Doom, who overpursued badly. That’s the common thread in the Raiders and Chiefs games, anyway. That, combined with bad play at RT, the loack of a downfield receiving threat, and a weak interior OL, made it pretty easy to stop the Broncos. Maybe the players gave up on the coaches. I don’t know that buy maybe they did. I do know for sure that the O-Line got pushed backwards and that zone-blocked runs headed Doom’s way went for big gains.
How does a team that tuned out the coaches rally on the road to nearly beat excellent playoff teams? I don’t know what listening to coaches looks like, but by most popular measures, teams that quit don’t turn near-blowouts into near victories; quitting means letting the other team roll all over you. I really think that if the linebackers took less weird angles on Jamaal Charles and Orton didn’t throw those two terrible picks, we wouldnt’be be talking about whether the players listened.
by Chibronx on Jan 18, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I tend to think they got exposed and got wore down.
I’m hoping that McD rethinks the boot-camp training camp mentality. It seems over the course of two season, the Broncos players have been subject to the two extremes in thinking. In 2008, there was the Shanahan Country Club Camp. In 2009, you had the McDaniels Bear Bryant circa 1955 Camp. It seems feasible that both philosophies contributed to the team’s late season collapse. The last few Shanny teams were heartless, the first McD team wore down.
Everything doesn’t have to be arbitrary. For example, you can’t just deduce scheme-change to learning, or poor play to quiting. A team playing great isn’t driven by great coaching anymore than a team in a bad stretch is a reflection of coaching. (The Ravens, for example, must have an ultra mercurial relationship with Harbuagh— much like a few of my college flings, infact…but I digress) Beyond having undersized lines— especially a zone built line trying to power block for chunks of 16 weeks— but also predictable limitations in talent on defense. Though Nolan did a masterful job with the defense, coaches film combined with talent issues are bound to catch up after awhile. It seems possible, at least, that they got tired, which magnified some already apparent talent issues.
For the all of you in the ‘they quit on McD set’, I’d be interested in the answer to one question: Why’d they quit for the first half against Indy, then rally, then quit against Oakland, but then try hard enough to take the lead, then quit all the way through the first half against Philly, then rally again, then quit again….. The whole ‘they quit’ theory just doesn’t even work if you think it through much. It really doesn’t. Its not like getting beat at home by an inferior division rival is an Avatarish like phenomenon introduced to the world by Josh McDaniels. Its been happening to just about everybody since the very first day I was able to discern what a football is— and long before that, I imagine.
That said. I’m sure there are guys on the team that don’t like McDaniels. Just like I’m pretty sure their are guys on the Saints that don’t like Payton, or on the Jets that don’t like Ryan, or— and I’m really sure about this— guys on the Vikings that don’t like Childress, etc….
I’m also pretty sure McDaniels didn’t or wont ever do a perfect job.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 18, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
I think it is easier to say they quit
Rather than to actually think they may have been outplayed. Which they were.
by Arimaris on Jan 18, 2010 2:45 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
What's most amazing...
…is that its generally the same people who screamed about the talent problems (McD doesn’t understand how to build a team!!!) that now totally discount those as being legitimate explanations for another year of mediocrity. In a strange way, McD invited worse scrutiny by getting this team off to a better than expected start.
This debate always comes down to whether you like McD or not— and the football details almost always get lost in the wash. He is held to an almost impossible standard by those who either wanted a different coach or who haven’t moved on from Cutler.
Its always black or white in McD land…
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 18, 2010 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
could be black & white in bronco country
Either you’re Elway or you’re not, Davis or not, Oline ’08 or not… to some people that is… the loud people it seems.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
by BroncoInExile on Jan 18, 2010 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
Yes
That’s why I bolded ‘generally’. There are a lot of solid concerns about McD articulated at MHR. Venture out of these friendly confines, however, and its a bad SNL skit most of the time.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 18, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions
+1 PdO, and record your comment,
Its been proven, you tell a lie often enough, and it becomes truth.
One mans Opinion, is just that…one mans opinion.
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
And he is held in impossibly high regard by several that will find any and all possible excuses for the way the 2009 season fell apart without so much as mentioning the coach. Black and white it is.
Either you’re 8-8 or 24-24 under Shanny or your 8-8 under McDaniels. GENERALLY.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Some might argue...
…that maintaining after such an audacious change in philosophy on both sides of the ball, and doing so with sizable portion of personnel unfamiliar with the new scheme, is a pretty impressive coaching display.
Sure…all things remaining equal, there was no change and the Broncos are no better than they were a year ago. The thing is, hardly anything remained equal.
It seems to me that the real debate is whether he’s the perfect coach and a magician. That being the case, I think you’re winning it. He’s neither.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 18, 2010 5:18 PM MST up reply actions
i think there was some quit
more ‘wore down’
and even more simple frustration leading to poor play.
It doesn’t take many lapses in focus to get beat up by the professional talent on every team out there!
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 18, 2010 5:03 PM MST up reply actions
hmmm... voted no....
and i’m curious to see opinions on how the broncs are headed the right way. i agree on the defense being better but the offense isn’t. more importantly, going position by position, this looks more and more like a long term rebuild than an upward swing. it’s hard for me to say this is a better, more talented team than 2008, or that the coaching was improved (again, excepting nolan).
that said, it’s a new staff and new systems all around so there’s that reasoning (although the Jets won’t be using that one), and sometimes to make big leaps forward you have to rock the car backwards to get it out of its old grooves. hope that’s the case here.
Ineresting
I don’t necessarily agree though. I have heard the thoughts on our offense being better position by position from 2008 to 2009 and I tend to agree. Are you looking forward where a loss of Marshall and a potential regression of Royal hurts our WRs? Adding our O-Line needing complete overhaul in the center and additional depth?
If that is the case I would counter that it is likely we would have had these issues anyway. I know some people feel that Marshall would have been paid by Shanny, but I use TO as the example. What happened to his game after SF gave him his first big contract? Also does anyone anymore think Cutler is not going to continue to be an interception machine?
Yes, "potential"
Because historically WR’s take 3 years to show if they are worth it. Very few have a good rookie year then a good second year.
That and injuries and overuse means that Royal get’s another year before we say goodbye.
nolan quits.
well, that pretty much sucks the positivity out of my post. i’m sure this all falls in masterfully in the mcJedi plan though, right?
I can appreciate your cautiously optimistic approach here.
Nice metaphor too, the car thing.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
thanks joe.
my cautious optimism has taken a solid hit though, with the nolan resignation. sigh. go broncos.
Nolan huh?
how many here would change their vote given the latest news
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 18, 2010 5:05 PM MST up reply actions
YES,
hired Mike Nolan, signed Dawkins, switch to 3-4, Doom to LB, going to power running attack, spoiled brat players being held accountable, how well this offense looks when it is on, the domination of the defense when it is ON, I expect more and better next year.
broncorat
"Our word for the week has been accountability...and anyone that showed any indifference to that, we’ll play without them, and we’ll play well anyway."
I like the direction
Defense? Nolan, Doom, Dawkins, Bailey, Goodman, Hill…How could you not like it?
Special Teams? It’s better even considering Berger’s roller coaster. Reid, Woodyard, Bruton, Larsen. man-o-man I can’t remember the last time I cheered for ST like I did this year.
Offense? I’m REALLY happy with this new idea where we keep the ball when we’re in the red zone trying to score. I like the direction the offense is heading. Now I just want to see some results after a year in the new system.
I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)
A solid...maybe
Put me in the “maybe” category. I like the improvement made by the defense but I’m concerned about the regression on the offensive side of the ball. A lot of the slide had to do with the largely unforeseen regression of the o-line and Royal’s sophomore slump, but I have concerns about the overall offensive scheme. Despite those issues (and the o-line was a big issue) I thought the play calling was less than stellar. Where were the tight ends this year? There were games where the run clearly wasn’t working but the coaches stubbornly kept wasting first downs trying to run.
I understand that McD has a system that he wants to implement; however, I was expecting him to be smarter about using the resources he had available to him instead of trying to cram a square peg in a round hole. If you have Scheffler, you throw him the ball. The offense this year had a Dan Reeve’s era feeling to it = scheme that didn’t play to the strengths of the pieces and parts.
The defense and special teams finally seem to be heading in the right direction. Sadly, with the likely departure of Marshall and Sheffler, I can’t say the same about the offense.
by Iguck! on Jan 18, 2010 1:29 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
I like how you put it
I am curious though about the running on 1st down comment. I thought we went AWAY from the run to early too often allowing teams to go to a cover scheme because they felt that they could handle the run without help from the safeties.
I believe that the fact we had little to no run game in the last four weeks made it that much harder to win late in the season. And I think that was partially because the offense did not just try to run at times.
Spotty Memory
You are probably also correct in games. I made my comment based on a few games where the run seemed to be a lost cause but they kept sticking to it. Problem is, I can’t even remember which games left me with that impression, but it seems like some of them were late in the season.
I’m a big fan of the run, and I remember the Elway/TD days where the run didn’t necessarily do much the first three quarters, but then TD would break off a big back breaker of a run in the 4th quarter. Unfortunately, that rarely happened for Denver this last season. And once Harris went down, the team seemed to lose any hope of being able to do that.
I wonder about the 60 = 100 phenomenon...
Only in Bronco Land can a line with 1/2* of its personnel be considered the same, and thus be accused of regressing.
Bare with me here, because lets look at that. Going into Baltimore, Denver was 6-0 and slowly building offensive steam. They were coming off a masterful second half against San Diego. Then Ryan Harris goes down, and Ben Hamilton basically breaks down. All the while, the C that had a career season the year before starts showing his age. So all the sudden the same offensive line is reduced to 60% of the same, minus performance from its center reminiscent of the year before.
How does 60% equal the same?
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 18, 2010 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
Point Well Taken
“Regression” was probably only partially accurate. Hamilton and Weigman might fall into the regression category. Harris was obviously an injury, not regression. Of course, the Harris injury might have exposed Weigman, hard to say.
Regarding the offensive line, the point I really meant to make was it did not do as well as expected. A healthy Harris next season will go a long way toward fixing that.
I agree.
My only consolation is that McD was calling plays he know WILL work when executed correctly. I hope we will see the personnel added to make those plays work consistently. That being said, your statement about adaptability when certain plays aren’t working in real-time is gold. Rec’d.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Okay this is weak poll John
limiting it to a yes or no answer just doesn’t allow you to capture the overall feelings of the MHR members IMO. Maybe you could add in “Maybe, but I need to see what happens in the off season.” That’s really where I’m at. I think the Broncos cuuld be going in the right direction, but, really need to see what’s going to happen in FA and the draft to make up my mind. Even then I may still have questions. Generally speaking I believe we could be going the right direction, but, the 2-8 record in the last 10 games would say we’re stuck in the mud somewhere.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Then you would say no...
It’s not ‘weak’ because it doesn’t give you a way out. You either do or don’t. That said, if you feel like you can’t answer, then don’t. That, in and of itself, is an answer.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
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+1 John, That said I voted Yes...
I believe the TEAM, is heading in the right direction. To qualifiy that statement,
would include all in the organization. New Coaches, new players, new front
office, new schemes. For a first year “makeover” we did pretty good. Some of
players run out of gas towards the end ( not quit ) due to injuries, age, maybe
even trying to do to much.
This is a very competitive league. Its a razers edge, between winning and losing.
Even the best teams sometimes fall short, and we as fans can be very unforgiving.
So yes =}
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
I'm just saying it might give more light
to what Bronco fans are really thinking if we had more options. This reminds me I guess of some of the politcal polls that are tailored get the answer they desire to support what they think. I know that’s not you intent here. Or maybe I’m over thinking it a bit, I have a habit of doing that. I would say yes to some areas and no to others based on how the season progressed. So a maybe or I don’t really know might be nice.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
this was meant to be a reply on John's above
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Not at all...
People have an opinion now, either way, or they don’t. That is ok. I want people to really think about it. What fun is it to say, "I’ll know after the draft, or after Free Agency, or after the Broncos win a Super Bowl.
The most important thing is, there is no right or wrong answer. I’m not going to say “anyone who said no is not a Broncos fan” Not at all. I want a snapshot in time, now that much of the knee-jerk emotion of the season is gone…..
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Well my gut says yes and that's how I answered,
but my head says no. Are you going to do another post on this after the draft?
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
I Voted No
For the simple reason that in football you are judged by wins and losses. With the exact same record as the previous season, we moved sideways, which is not the right direction. IOW, if you are not making improvement, then everyone else is passing you bye.
FWIW, I held my 9-7 preseason prediction throughout that 6 game winning streak (indeed until the final game’s final 2 minutes or so), and if we had achieved that, I would have voted yes in the poll.
Losing to the Faiders at home – TWO YEARS IN A FRIGGING ROW!!!! NOT the right direction!!!
However, being a true fan who bleeds predominantly orange, I remain hopeful that next season will be better.
Jeff Zepp, Kittredge CO USA
“I remain hopeful that next season will be better.”
Me too, even if I don’t have much to base that on. And then there is always the Dolt playoff choke that makes me smile.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
Wow, I agree with McGeorge on something
Looking forward to the dolt playoff choke. Loved the fact that Turner did NOT adjust to the Jets defense at all when they changed up to a more conservative attack in the 2nd half.
It makes me happy that Norv is and will remain the coach in SD. Thank goodness they didn’t have a good coach when they WERE the most talented team in the NFL (circa 2006-2007).
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
SOOO true
I remember calling my friend who is a San Diego fan and getting to break the news they hired Turner. He actually started crying on the phone. Ahhh, memories.
That is a good memory. I almost wish I had SD Charger fans as friends so I could rub it in today. I stick with my Dolphin fan friends. They are much less obnoxious.
I'm so angry at the Broncos right now.
I do and it was a fun day let me tell you.
I just walked by chanting J-E-T-S….JETS….JETS….JETS!
For the first time in a couple of months it was peaceful at work.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Absolutely Yes
Based on the fact that the ‘07 & ’08 Broncos were outscored an average of 5 points per game (an avg score of 25-20 in ’07 & 28-23 in ’08) and in ’09 the Bronco’s outscored their opposition by .2 ppg (20.2-20.4) I’d say that is absolutely a move in the right direction. Offensively, they are where they were in ‘07 and not far behind where they were in ’08 (and the ’07-’08 teams were made up entirely of players selected by the coach for the system)
Putting together a stronger O line will mean a better conversion percentage on 3rd and short, and they’ll be winning 2-3 more games next year.
I voted yes.
But it’s not a sweeping “yes” as I previously would have noted. I’m generally happy with the way things are going. A lot will depend on the FA and draft though.
I’ve accepted that Marshall is most likely leaving, so as long as McD and X get something of good value in return, then I’m ok with it. Losing a guy like Marshall can be one of two things. It will either devastate a team that relied on him so much at key points during the season, or it will unite the team and the team-first attitude while giving lesser known players the opportunities to show their salt as well. Some people would say we’re losing the biggest playmaker on the field, and while that’s true, I highly doubt guys like Dawkins, Champ and Dan Graham will allow the other players to start whispering things that would eat the team inside out after Marshall leaves.
All in all, I’m very excited for 2010 and beyond because I feel like McDaniels is making the changes necessary to get this team out of the rut it’s been in for 5 years. The issues of mediocrity were here long before McD showed up, so I won’t pin him to the cross about it yet and neither should anyone else.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
Voted NO
Mostly because I could not decide. I figured if I could say that I felt like yes is the right answer, then it must be no.
Having said that, on the defensive side of the ball, I do like the direction. If we upgrade the talent on the D-Line and add another quality LB, then we may be in very good shape. I am a bit worried about the age of the CB position (S is old, too, but I like Bruton and McBath as future starters). Alphonso Smith needs to step up next year at the nickle spot.
On the offensive side of the ball, I am far less happy. I am not a big fan of the “Patriots Spread” offense. I am also not really a big fan of the spread at the college level. Some of that is just my bias towards a strong running game and play action passing. You have to be able to pass at the NFL level to win, sure, but you have to be balanced, too.
I feel like I can see where the defense is going, but the offense is much more in a state of flux going into McDaniels’ second season than I would have hoped. There are too many questions. For example:
1. Do we have the right personnel on the O-Line for whatever the new post-Dennison blocking scheme will be? (My answer is probably no and we needed a talent upgrade in the middle of the line anyway)
2. Is Orton really the QB of the near future (2-4 years)?
3. Who will be the primary receivers next year? (Marshall and Scheffler are likely gone, Royal was extremely disappointing this year)
4. Is Knowshon Moreno a real #1 back? (His heart, character, and enthusiasm are not in question but can he make plays — honestly, I thought he would make more of them this year based on his draft position)
Finally, other than Prater, Special Teams are an area of concern.
Too many questions for me to vote yes. I have been generally supportive of McDaniels, but the Raiders and Chiefs games left me feeling quesy.
Keep Moving Forward.
Wrong
If the season played backwards, starting with home loss to KC and concluding in a 6-game winning streak, culminating in a last-minute miracle win at CIN, I’d be ecstatic. As it is, it started well and ended on an even worse streak then 2008. What’s right about this direction? I like our new D, but even it gave out by the end of the season.
Who wants to revote if Nolan is leaving.
McD is clearly struggling to maintain control of this organization.
by legendarywalton on Jan 18, 2010 4:07 PM MST reply actions
huge shock
Mike Lombardi just said on the NFL network that Mike Nolan has been let go………..
by WYO(MF)BRONCOBOY on Jan 18, 2010 4:09 PM MST reply actions
Umm, crap
Ok, McGeorge, Do you have like a clinic or something? I think I just joined your thoughts on the issues we are having.
Yeah......
the one truly successful improvement and McD can’t keep him………..????
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
What's going on
with Mike Nolan parting ways with Denver? Can someone post that story soon? I heard about it on the NFL network, and that it is mutual, but not much else.
by NxtYrNvrArrives on Jan 18, 2010 4:12 PM MST reply actions
It was just announced
Not much being released yet
by WYO(MF)BRONCOBOY on Jan 18, 2010 4:13 PM MST up reply actions
Pardon my language
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!
I call BS on Mike Nolan being released
I went to every major site and no one had this posted on there.
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 18, 2010 4:19 PM MST reply actions
Glazer: D-coordinator to 'part ways' with Broncos
by legendarywalton on Jan 18, 2010 4:21 PM MST up reply actions
Glazer is an idiot
i will wait for a better source
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 18, 2010 4:23 PM MST up reply actions
Ok, if true
Nolan better go become a head coach or be dying or something.
Lindsay Jones / Denver Post confirmed
Bummer, man. I think the other 2 coaches leaving made sense, was a positive thing, but this seems more negative. Or is it?
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
Yea he better be considered for a HC
because I would be very pissed if he was let go for some stupid arguement
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 18, 2010 4:28 PM MST up reply actions
Given we have no idea what the scoop is
or why he’s parted or what went on behind closed doors, we really don’t know anything yet. I’m going to withhold judgement, on either guy.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
Or...
He wouldn’t return Mcd’s phone calls
by WYO(MF)BRONCOBOY on Jan 18, 2010 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
yea i hope your being sarcastic
because that is stupid
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 18, 2010 4:42 PM MST up reply actions
Speculation that we're after the pats former d-coordinator
Yay, re-treads!
by legendarywalton on Jan 18, 2010 4:29 PM MST reply actions
Maybe
the Broncos didn’t give Nolan a high enough suit budget.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
This isn't the Poll of the Week.
Doug’s poll was the Poll of the Week.
"In the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." -Ian Faith
Um I want to change my vote to a NO
since Mike Nolan Stepped down. This is a very bad move. He should have won DC coach of the year with the players he had to work with
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 18, 2010 4:44 PM MST reply actions
Adam Schefter
saying Miami is already planning to interview him. At least their defense will be good next year.
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 18, 2010 4:46 PM MST reply actions
Ok, I got this figured out.
Wade Phillips is going to be fired in Dallas, we are going to hire him to replace Nolan and he will prove once again he is a really good coordinator!
RIght? Guys? Hello?
/cries into his beer
Schefter Also Said
This afternoon on KOA’s the Ride Home that Wade Phillips is safe in Dallas. The only vacancy he spoke of during that interview (~3:45PM MST) was (going to be) be Cable, and he predicted we’d find out within the next 48 hours. If there was something in Miami, he didn’t share it on-air this afternoon when specifically asked about the coaching carousel.
Jeff Zepp, Kittredge CO USA
Miami wouldn't be a head coach, it'd be DC again i reckon...
I could see Nolan going to the Raiders though. If he doesn’t take an HC job though it looks bad on Josh to me.
I hate to say it but I voted No.
However I like the new philosophy McDaniels has brought in except for airing our laundry to the MSM. That has to stop. I know it is McDaniels’ first year as a HC so I will cut him some slack. For once I want to see some consistency through 16 games whether we make the playoffs or not.
I am optimistic that things will work out, it’s just that I can’t vote “yes” because we are still a .500 team that still can’t win the game when it matters the most.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
I would have liked a "can't really tell" option
But backed into a corner, based on the factual information in front of me, I had to vote No. The 2-8 finish is the only hard core evidence we have in what direction the team is heading. Can they turn it around? Sure. Will they? Nobody really knows, imo.
And with the 32nd pick in the 2009 NHL draft, the Red Wings select: Someone other than Ryan O'Reilly. LOL@Detoilet.
by Bob in Boulder on Jan 19, 2010 11:00 AM MST reply actions

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