Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: VIDEO: The Daily Show Talks Jeremy Lin

MHR Chalk Talk Special Edition - Locker Room Issues in Week 17 ('09)

There are many angles to look at for the Sunday game against the KC Chiefs.  We could breakdown the Xs and Os, we could compare the teams, we could look at the players, or we could even evaluate our playoff chances.  There are many ways to approach this.

But I'm going to take a different tack.  I'm going to look at the locker room issues that have come up lately, and see if I can make some sense of what is going on for this team, now and going into the off season.  Keep in mind I scrapped my entire rough draft I prepared for this game due to the news of Marshall and Scheffler's de-activation for Sunday's game.

I hope that I can lend some credible and reasoned opinions about what is happening (or may be happening), and that the discussion generated is healthy and cordial.  Remember folks, this doesn't need to be "McDaniels haters" versus "Marshall haters".  This is about the Broncos, and what the team needs to do moving forward.  Let's keep the discussion respectful, and let me start it off today with my own take.

Star-divide

TE Tony Scheffler

What does Tony Scheffler have in common with Brandon Marshall?  He is scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent after this season.  Think about that.  Also, think about this: Who is Tony's agent?  None other than Bus Cook, the man who brought us the Cutler versus McDaniels conflict in the last off-season.  Brilliant reporting by MHR's Jeremy Bolander revealed Bus Cook to be the likely instigator of the feud between Cutler and McDaniels.  At the time, there were concerns about what Scheffler would do.  Scheffler stayed with the team, but in a diminished role.  Denver's TEs are being used more in blocking roles than in receiving roles, and while Scheffler continues to be a top notch receiving TE, he has been less of a target than he might have been with Cutler and the former Shanahan scheme.  In fairness to Scheffler, I am unaware of previous attitude issues with him.

We don't know for sure (yet) what prompted the benching of Scheffler.  According to Klis of the Denver Post, it was attitude.  Assuming this to be the case, let's take a look at the two other players in this week's drama.

Head Coach Josh McDaniels

Josh McDaniels has made a decision as a coach that (as a former coach myself) I respect.  With the post season on the line, he has made the decision to place the people on the field that he feels are committed to the team, not necessarily the "best" players on the team.  We as fans can argue that we want to see the best players on the field, especially in a "must-win" game.  But from a coach's perspective, there are variables that go beyond just ability.  Team chemistry is crucial, as is character and motivation.  In the age of Madden games, we may look at players as having abilites on a scale of 1 to 100.  But in real, team sports the other variables are often more important for a team's success.  There is no true "1 to 100" scale, and player issues beyond raw physical talent or essential to winning games.

Was the decision to bench Scheffler correct?  Unlike players (who divide their goals between personal bests and team wins), a coach at the pro level is judged on his ability to win games to keep his job.  Scheffler may or may not place himself or his team higher in terms of priorities.  But it is reasonable to assume that a coach's only desire is to win games.  I won't question Scheffler's issues, because I don't know what is really happening.  But I don't see a plausible scenario for the coach to bench Scheffler for some sort of egoist's gain.

But what about Marshall?  This is the heart of the matter, and I think this is where I can shine the most light in a difficult situation.

WR Brandon Marshall

Who is Brandon Marshall?  First, he is one of the most talented receivers in the NFL.  Let's get that out of the way, because I don't think there is any credible argument against this point.  He is also very young, with a promising career ahead of him.  There is no doubt that Brandon Marshall increases a team's ability to win ball games if we judge him by his on field performances.  He is a beast at WR.

We also know that (unlike his coach or his fellow benched team mate Scheffler), Marshall has a history of behavioral problems.  He has had run ins with law enforcement on many occassions (and no, not just because of one woman).  He has also had run ins with everyone from ball boys and feloow players (witness his behavior when he was benched during the preseason), and has shown terrible judgement (including the "glove" incident during a game, as well as other game time decisions and horseplaying with a television set).  He has been suspended by the NFL, and by his own team.

Here is a little reported fact that stood out to me earlier this season.  While Marshall's fans where cheering him for hugging his coach and playing hard earlier this season, many folks may have missed a little quote from Marshall a few weeks ago.  Marshall made a statement about not knowing where he would be next year, and made no attempt to talk up his team's chances at keeping his services.  Talking about staying with a team is almost a common tradition in such statements, but Marshall steered clear.  In my mind, at that moment, I seriously doubted if Marshall would return.  Since that time, I've written in several comments at MHR that I wouldn't count on Marshall coming back, and his chances might be 50/50.

What about the injury issue?  Whom do we believe?

The Injury

Marshall received a hamstring injury during practice.  The only question is, "To what extent is the player injured?"

Marshall acknowledges the injury, and some reports had his status as being up in the air.  In a breach of polite protocol (in my opinion), the head coach came out and called the injury "mild" and claimed that other players were going to be playing through worse injuries.

What would prompt a coach to do this?  Let's look at reasonable ideas.

First, what the coach did was certainly impolite.  While I was a former coordinator (and only at the sub collegiate levels), I would have to be entirely beyond mending fences with a player to publicly call an injury an excuse (which is what McDaniel's is clearly implying).  But for the coach to make this implication, it is only logical for us to asume a key point - Marshall must have either "not wanted to play" or was not playing to his potential in practice.

In other words, had Marshall said, "Look, I'm hurt.  But my team needs me and I'll give it everything I have" we would have no problem.  In a similar vein, had Marshall said, "Coach, I can't play.  My injury is too much" he would simply be placed on "out" status and there would be no argument between player and coach (though the coach might growl to the press about the player's attitude).  But we don't have that here.  Only Marshall's lack of commitment to playing or not playing would force the coach to have to make the decision for him.

In this case, the player was benched, and then the player comes out expressing surprise.  Odd?  Not if we followed the possibilities.

The Other Players

When I am looking at behavioral issues and dynamics in a locker room, I look at other players for clues to the problems.  If there was an issue between a player and, let's say, a position coach (often not far removed from high school himself), I often watched the behavior of team leaders. 

So here's a telling point.  Since the preseason issues with Marshall and McDaniels went down, have there been any locker room grumbles about the coach?  At this late date, have we heard any derisive comments from Brian Dawkins?  Players who support a coach or player may or may not speak out, but when a player or coach is unpoplular with other players, someone is bound to speak up.

We've heard about Marshall needing to straighten up, or to be taken under someone's wing.  But we haven't heard about the Coach being a tyrant.

After four difficult losses, Brian Dawkins called a players only meeting, which led to 2 straight wins.  Since that time, the team has fallen again on hard times.  The meeting worked (albeit temporarily), but the key is what player meetings are about.

When a player calls a player's only meeting, the issue is almost always about accountability.  It is likely that some players weren't being accountable, and Dawkins addressed this.  Accountability isn't just about how well guys are playing, but attitudes.  For example, what if a player is playing very well, but makes the statement to fellow players that he isn't planning on sticking around with the team next year?  What if a player is grumbling to other players about his lack of being used in a current system?  We don't know what the issues are, or who has them, but the players do.  They haven't gone to the press, and (to our knowledge) haven't gone to the ownership.  This lends further credible evidence that the problem with our team is at the player level, not at the coach level.

Conclusions

Looking at this game against KC, I think we are the better team and are at home.  On the other hand, we may have to play without our two top receivers (Eddie Royal is also questionable with a neck injury).  KC has the advantage of "first loss" (onder the theory that a team that loses the first engagement has more to benefit from game film and has improved odds of winning the next game).

Even with a win, a couple of other games need to go our way.  Even if everything washes together well, I don't think we are a playoff contender for a deep run this year.  I could be wrong, but I don't like our chances.  However, I think we are positioned to improve our chances for next year.  I've been wiriting this over the last few weeks, even with the consideration (in my mind) that Marsahall may very well not stay in Denver.

Folks missed Cutler (some to the point of abandoning their team fandom), but it turned out that a mature, careful QB trumped a talented but immature QB.  I think Marshall will be missed by folks who look at him as a "98" or so in a "1 to 100" context.  But in my own opinion, Coach McDaniels is pushing for high character players.  We saw it when he brought in veteran leadership like Brian Dawkins.  We saw it when he drafted players that were (almost to a man) team captains at their university programs.

The Patriots have often had players who weren't big names, but played well together.  Like the Steelers (another good program over the years), very good players are often cut loose to the surprise of fans, only to be replaced with players who are less expensive and that "buy into the program".

I don't know what the future holds for Marshall.  I expect he will leave the Broncos, and that he has wanted to for some time. 

Coach McDaniels has (in my opinion) improved the Broncos from an 8-8 team that suffers blowouts to an 8 or 9 win team that beats very good teams and loses some close games.  That was my prediction before the season (Denver wins 8 games despite a rough schedule, but is improved).  I was proven right about the schedule; Denver played all of the top AFC teams this year.  On the other hand, while I doubt it will happen, Coach McDaniels was looking great at the start of the season only to (potentialy) come up short at the end - and this cost Coach Shanahan a job, so...

Here's my thought.  The team will continue to draft and obtain (through free agency and trades) players who buy into the "team first, ameoba flexiblity, Patriot way, character driven" style of football.  I expect more improvements next year.  As with the Patriots and Steelers, I expect the team to cut some players that we might have expected to be sure keepers.  In the case of Marshall, his cut won't be a surprise if and when it (likely) happens.  In my humble opinion, we're seeing the same thing from Marshall we've always seen, and shouldn't be surprised.  By being benched now, we are spared the off season drama that was coming anyway from a player that wasn't willing to commit to playing this Sunday, but acted surprised at being benched.  Now we know where Marshall stands, and it is where he stood when he held out this summer, and where he stood when fans thought things were going well and Marshall refused to endorse playing for the team next year.

Right now, I want the people on the field to be the people that have the interests of the team at heart.  I believe the coach is one of those people, and I believe that Marshall has demonstrated a lack of commitment to the team time and again, despite playing brilliantly on the field. 

Now the only question left for me is how fans will react.  Will they place Marshall higher than players that have bought in to the Bronco Way (like Dawkins, Buckhalter, Stokley, and Dumervil), the coach, and the team?  Or will they wish Marshall the best (sincerely), but continue to bleed orange and blue and hope for more improvement next year?  Bashing Marshall won't solve anything, and blaming McDaniels seems irrational.

For me, I'll take the positive high road.  I wish Marshall all the best (unless he goes to Oakland of course).  I also wish our head coach all the best, and most of all, I wish our team all the best.

Happy New Year!  And hold on tight.  We're in for another "interesting" off season, and I'll bet some interesting twists and turns are just around the corner for our favorite team.....

Comment 104 comments  |  23 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Good Post

I pretty much agree with everything in here. McDaniels gets so much heat for the decisions he makes, just because he’s benching so and so good player for so and so reason. Like in the first game when Brandon Marshall didn’t play for almost a quarter’s time, and Moreno’s benchings after fumbles. I personally believe that team chemistry goes a longer way than most coaches and fans know. If you aren’t committed 110% to the team, you deserve to be benched, no matter who you are.

by Nick Costanza on Jan 2, 2010 11:42 AM MST reply actions  

Woudl we cut BMarsh?

He is a restricted agent, wouldn’t we receive compensation if he were signed? I need to find out about this, because there is a team out there that would give up quite a bit for BMarsh. Mostly bad teams, but they are there for sure.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jan 2, 2010 11:49 AM MST reply actions  

oh and the caption to the picture was down right hilarious.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jan 2, 2010 11:50 AM MST up reply actions  

If they would WANT to get rid of him, they would probably place a low (2nd round?) tender on him

so that they at least get that compensation. I dont see anybody giving up a 1 and 3 for him, but a 2 should be possible…

Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands

by BroncosNL on Jan 2, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions  

I think we could trade for more than a 2nd rounder for BMarsh.....

31 other teams, there is one out there that would pony up for a “franshise” WR. lol

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jan 2, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions  

exactly,

look at what dallas gave up for Roy Williams. Marshall is head and shoulders better than that guy ( i think they gave a 1st, 3rd and 6th for him). He will get a 1st rounder for sure.

by BroncoMath101 on Jan 2, 2010 6:06 PM MST up reply actions  

I also think we can do better than a 2nd rounder.

I’d be happy with a first rounder, even if it is 2 years out. But I wouldn’t be surprised if we got less. Indeed, I wouldn’t be shocked if Marshall was realeased outright. A trade would be preferable, but it could go that way.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 6:09 PM MST up reply actions  

2nd Rounder most likely

Marshall’s injuries, attitude problem and well documented history of domestic violence make him either risky or untouchable to a lot of NFL teams. If you think about the Moss to Oakland move, the Plaxico mess after Pittsburgh got rid of him and Chris Henry’s unfortunate death that stemmed from a domestic arguement, signs don’t point towards top value for our malcontent.

by mattison on Jan 2, 2010 11:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I would tend to support BroncoMath's theory here.

Roy Williams has set a precedent, and there aren’t’ many receivers that have had more catches in the last 3 years, or that have had 3 consecutive 100 catch seasons. The Broncos should get a premium price for him. He is more of a Franchise player than Cutler ever was.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 3, 2010 1:31 AM MST up reply actions  

I could see a team like Miami

giving us a first and maybe more for him

Denver rookie head coach Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team." - John Clayton, April 23rd, 2009

by diviesti on Jan 2, 2010 12:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Or

Any team coached by Mike Shanahan…

by RCEB on Jan 2, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure

Shanahan stated to ESPN that he would’ve cut Marshall after the pro bowl had he not been fired.

Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.

by Hercules Rockefeller on Jan 2, 2010 1:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Did he?

I thought that was a debunked rumor?

by jvill on Jan 2, 2010 3:10 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I never heard this..

also, I thought Shanny was under a gag order to not discuss Bronco doings because he was still being paid by the Broncos?

Dear Rockies-Thank you for a wonderful rollercoaster season! Best turnaround in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.

Garrett Atkins-So Long, Farewell, Auf weidersehen, Goodbye!! You were a great Rockie! GOOD LUCK!
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba- Re-sign!! he's en Fuego!!
Brad Hawpe- I hope I get to see you in a Rockies uniform again!
Dexter Fowler - prowling CF, WC in his talons, leaping Utleys in a single bound!

by SDcat09 on Jan 2, 2010 3:49 PM MST up reply actions  

or The Ravens...

My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.

by Blackshirt4Broncos on Jan 2, 2010 10:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Great post....one question?

Saying he’s gone, in what way does that go down? In the top of the article he’s un UFA…..we can’t get anything for him? Or do we at least have a chance to play hardball and tag him…..whats the plan assuming he’s outta here?

by bronco112 on Jan 2, 2010 11:52 AM MST reply actions  

I don't think he's a UFA

War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles

by bradley on Jan 2, 2010 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

He's an unrestricted free agent, but,,,

If there’s a CBA extension, they can use the franchise tag on him. If there’s not a CBA extension, than he’s a FA, but can only negotiate with the Broncos (or another team if the broncos allowed him to seek a trade)

Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.

by Hercules Rockefeller on Jan 2, 2010 1:48 PM MST up reply actions  

No

He is a Restricted Free Agent. An Unrestricted Free Agent can go wherever they want to. Hence the “Unrestricted” and the “Free.” Another team may sign him to an offer sheet and the Broncos can match the numbers or not. If the other team signs him after that, the Broncos would be compensated for it with draft picks. A 1st and a 3rd is the going rate.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 3, 2010 1:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Love the photo caption

No more twister at Dove Valley, news at five LOL

Great post, good thoughts.

Go Broncos! Whomever is playing!!

Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that

by Sean in Pa. on Jan 2, 2010 12:03 PM MST reply actions  

This was a long time ago...

But I remember in one of the Orange Bowls one of the great Oklahoma teams was scheduled to play Arkansas. They were like a 10 point favor. Then in the week before the game, Lou Holtz benched his three best players. The line shot up to like 20 or 22 points, and everyone was talking about how Lou Holtz was in over his head, he wasn’t flexible enough, etc.

But Arkansas won in a blowout, because the players that were left rallied around the coach, and put the team first.

Maybe history will repeat itself.

Adelante, Broncos!

by Chapulin Colorado on Jan 2, 2010 12:05 PM MST reply actions  

Well, we are playing the Chefs....

I think they could put me in at WR and still win by 3 TDs

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jan 2, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

I'll pick you up off of waivers for my fantasy football championship.

Zappa, you’d be good for at least a double digit fantasy day.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

by Troy Hufford on Jan 2, 2010 12:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Interesting

Do any of you football encyclopedias out there know more about this story?

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jan 2, 2010 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Holtz#Arkansas

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 2, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions  

sorry, let's try again

href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Holtz#Arkansas” >

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 2, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions  

here

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 2, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

WOW

So sorry everyone. Fumbling fat thumbs and a touchy computer today, I guess. If you just wikipedia him, the story is under the “Arkansas” section.

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 2, 2010 12:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks

Copying and pasting the URL worked fine.

That’s an interesting read. It would be nice for history to repeat itself. I for one would take 205 yards from the third string running back tomorrow.

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jan 2, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions  

great line BP

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Jan 2, 2010 1:42 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

I was thinking about that Holtz stoy when the news about Marshall broke.

Holtz also (if I recall) took a team vote too. The team backed the coach.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 1:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I may be mistaken

But I would think that history has proved that Coach Holtz wasn’t in over his head.

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jan 2, 2010 1:07 PM MST up reply actions  

You are very correct.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 1:26 PM MST up reply actions  

i think Holtz did ok for himself

Excluding his Jets experience but the cripples most coaches. :-)

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Jan 2, 2010 1:44 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Thanks for this, and Rec'd

I think we all appreciate the logical approach you took here, cutting out a lot of the emotionally charged stuff several of us fell into in other threads.

The one thing I don’t agree with…I will wish BMarsh the best unless he goes to OAK OR Sandy Eggo. Or KC…

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 2, 2010 12:09 PM MST reply actions  

I hope we send him to the Rams. :P

for two 2nd round picks….

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jan 2, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Wouldn't that be sweet?

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 2, 2010 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Or Seattle

Marshall is an east coast boy, so let’s ship him to the northwest.

War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles

by bradley on Jan 2, 2010 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

There's the spirit!!

I hate to admit it, but Cutler getting to go to Chicago burned me more than any of the rest of it. BM earning a trip to Seattle would be perfect.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson "An Army at Dawn"

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 2, 2010 1:44 PM MST up reply actions  

How about being sent

to the Lions. Then Jay could throw passes to him twice a year, while he stands on the sidelines.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 3, 2010 1:41 AM MST up reply actions   2 recs

Oh that would be the best case scenario

He gets punished by going there and we get good compensation. Win win!

There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.

by underdog on Jan 2, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes, the Rams sounds good

I would rather see him go to the Rams or the Lions for a 4th round pick than to just about any other team for two second rounders. Then again, you get the feeling that Marshall doesn’t care how his team is doing so much as he cares how HE ($) is doing, so going to a loser team may not bother him in the least. Good article except for the wishing Marshall well part.

by warmick on Jan 2, 2010 12:23 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

Supply and Demand

As we saw with Cutler supply and demand is what decides compensation in a trade. The truth is there are very few WR with Marshall’s talent. If a team believes that McD or the Broncos is partly to blame for the situation he is in, then they will be willing to give up whatever is needed to aquire Brandon. He is definately, even with an attitude problem worth more than a 1st round pick.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Jan 2, 2010 3:29 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

And TO has proven that fact 3nS

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 3, 2010 1:43 AM MST up reply actions  

Well done HT...Much appreciated

-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

by BroncoSense72 on Jan 2, 2010 12:28 PM MST reply actions  

Good piece...

I hope we are able to trade him for a combination of player(s)+draft pick(s).

It would be great if we could swap two players looking for a change of scenery – Marshall for Boldin. I know, there are more than likely too may issues regarding money (that each player wants) for it to happen, but a guy can dream. I believe Boldin would buy into the team and scheme and he is also a BEAST over the middle.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Jan 2, 2010 12:29 PM MST reply actions  

Agree Greek....

Next time a player acts out in the media, the coach can no longer say that “these things should be handled behind closed doors”.

by bronco112 on Jan 2, 2010 12:36 PM MST reply actions  

That's it in a nutshell.

Well said.

War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles

by bradley on Jan 2, 2010 3:38 PM MST up reply actions  

has anyone considered that McD has consulted wth the team doctors and maybe this is an injury

that they also felt could be played through? Maybe they let McD know that it wasn’t as serious as some people think. Even Brandon said it wasn’t a “pulled” hamstring because those are bad.

I doubt McD diagnosed this himself without checking up on it. It seems the way he prepares each week that he really does his homework on things.

by BroncoMath101 on Jan 2, 2010 6:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Good call.

It wouldn’t be reasonable to assume that McDaniels didn’t consult with his training staff.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 6:18 PM MST up reply actions  

hoop, you're on point today.

Every comment of yours that I’ve caught has reeked of truth.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 2, 2010 11:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Presto!

Your comment is green.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 3, 2010 1:47 AM MST up reply actions  

anyone else find it odd that he coincidentally got hurt in the 15 minutes the media gets to watch practice?

i’m not saying, just saying

by Todd Jewell on Jan 2, 2010 12:42 PM MST reply actions  

Yeah

I had that thought.

Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that

by Sean in Pa. on Jan 2, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Respectful Disagreement

For the reasons I stated in the previous thread, I respectfully disagree with your analysis. At some point, McDaniels needs to stand tall and take some of the heat for the team’s collapse in the last half of the season.

We don’t need more melodrama from the coach. He is not the center of attention, the team should be.

I expect that the Broncos will win tomorrow without Schef or BM. Why the drama then?

Some might like the new and improved offense under McD, but I find it now stale and predictable.

We should get beyond pro- and anti- McD, just as we did with Cutler, but there should be a middle ground on these discussion boards. Not all that McD has done has had the feel of genius. Just take a look at the punting, for example, or his second round draft picks.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jan 2, 2010 12:46 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

Where I disagree with you...

We are talking about two entirely different things. You are talking about accountability for the second half of the season, which rests with the coach and players. I buy that.

However, I’m not talking about the season or the performance of our coach and players. I’m writing about Marshall’s behavior and the coach’s reaction. I see no relationship between Marshall’s recent behavioral issue (along with the coach’s reacition) and a tie-in with who’s accountable for the poor second half of the season.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Good point

Steve, you have me there. I may be jumping the gun on the season’s analysis. My problem is that McDaniels just seems to relish confrontation and division, even within his own team. Hammy’s are tough items to handle with receivers and I just don’t know if McD handled this right. Should we make the playoffs, and that is big should at this point, you want a BM who is healthy and has his head on as straight as possible. Without him, I don’t think the Broncs have a chance. I thought things were going in the right direction with BM. This just seems unnecessarily embarrassing to all.

But, I see your points as legitimate, I simply disagree, which is what these boards are all about.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jan 2, 2010 1:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I respect the disagreement.

In terms of confrontation, we might look at Marshall’s past (filled with confrontation both on and off the field) versus McDaniels.

One of the most bizzare coincidences I see is that this happened under Shanahan too (Marshall saying he was injured, then Shanahan having to publicly tell Marshall that he would be playing, like it or not).

There is plenty of room to disagree on this matter, and more information (from either camp) may come out. But given Marshall’s near constant troubles for several years, I just have to think that the problem lies almost entirely at his feet.

I like your style of disagreeing (with class), and it is what makes MHR a great place to discuss these kinds of issues. My hat is off to you!

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 2:01 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks and the Same Back

I would not want to be the person to try to manage BM. He is a not very mature person in the body of a big man.

Nor do I think that Shanahan was above making dumb coaching moves. Getting rid of HIxon was a petty move based on personal pique. He has clearly helped the Giants.

What troubles me about McD is that he seems to go out of his way to turn matters into controversy, and that is the last thing Denver needs.

I agree that Dawkins was a terrific addition. I hope to meet him in Baltimore for the Ed Block dinner.

Let’s just have some good debate about what is good for our team and I really appreciate the energy and thought you put into rational debate.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jan 2, 2010 2:11 PM MST up reply actions  

Gotta argue with this
What troubles me about McD is that he seems to go out of his way to turn matters into controversy

Marshall certainly caused the controversy last August, and it appears that he did so again yesterday, although we don’t know what exactly happened. But I can’t agree that McD goes out of his way to turn matters into controversy.

War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles

by bradley on Jan 2, 2010 2:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks to both Baltimore AND Steve.

This is what MHR is all about. You guys do the rest of us proud, by managing to disagree without name-calling or fighting. I wish all of us — myself included — could debate points while remaining “friendly” and eloquent!

I am being very sappy today, but it’s great to see such class from our fanbase in the midst of all the anarchy surrounding our team…

- Nick

"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.

by ncm42 on Jan 3, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Is it possible...

…that Denver has struggled, in part, because of personnel? That the offense has been flat because of player issues? That losing to Washington and Oakland (inferior teams) is part of NFL life and always has been? That Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Indy might be better football teams?

I don’t get exactly what McD is supposed to say? Did we hold it against Shanahan when he didn’t use his post-game press conference to preach his incompetence and short comings and mistakes? Has any other coach in history made a bad personnel decision?

It goes both ways, and for some reason there seems to be an expectation for McD to either be perfect, or when he’s not, to completely break the mold and publicly proclaim his fallibility. When he doesn’t, his a smug little egomaniac not properly in touch with his mortality.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson "An Army at Dawn"

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 2, 2010 1:54 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

One interesting point about player issues.

Did you notice the uptick in play from the team when Dawkins had the players only meeting? We broke a four game skid (for two games). I think player leadership is crucial, and (perhaps) there are elements within the team working against the good influence of folks like Dawkins.

If Marshall (and perhaps Scheffler) have been dragging down the team in the locker room (despite playing well on the field), maybe a turnover in players will help the team out. Look at Cutler! We rid ourselves of a “pro bowl” QB, and bring in Orton (players like him), and all of a sudden we have better scoring margins for the season.

Good call!

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions  

That was aimed more at BB and the anti-McD set.

To me, there’s an outside chance, at least, that McD isn’t the only coach to ever call a bad play, make a head scratcher personnel move, to experience growing pains in his first year with players in a new system, or to struggle to elevate a team in decline to elite status by waving some genius wand. I mean, they weren’t very good last year with the genius and the golden boy, or the year before that, or the year before that….

It seems possible that the blind faith McD lovers see this year’s struggles as predictable rather than earth shattering or disconcerting, and thus spend very little time pointing out the obvious.

So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson "An Army at Dawn"

by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 2, 2010 6:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Look, this season's Broncos team is like a hot rookie in baseball

First time around the league, he tears it up – looks like the second coming of Ted Williams. Second time around, teams have been studying his tendencies, know the holes in his swing, and make him look bad. The Broncos came out with a new offensive plan that got an intial break with the surprise factor. But once there was enough film on the analyze them, the lack of physical talent and depth became a serious problem.

by ClarkFan on Jan 2, 2010 9:45 PM MST up reply actions  

great comments Baltimore

I couldnt have said it better myself. McDaniels isnt perfect. People need to realize that. Not everything he touches turns to gold.

by johnnystarr on Jan 2, 2010 2:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Baltimore
Not all that McD has done has had the feel of genius. Just take a look at the punting, for example, or his second round draft picks.

While I certainly agree with you on the punter issue (McD stunk on that one) the jury is still out on the second round picks – McBath showed a lot of game; Quinn has made some big plays on special teams, and Smith made some good plays early on, then hurt his ankle. We don’t know where he’s at with that.

War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea - eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles

by bradley on Jan 2, 2010 2:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Please, clear my confusion on Sheffler.etc,etc.

I am a supporter of Coach McDaniel and everything else Broncos but……I am wondering what is going on with players like Sheffler. Tony is an excellent receiving tight end and last couple seasons when he was healthy he was unstoppable.
     I don’t get to hear all the games from here in Chicago but I get the feeling that maybe Coach McDaniel is going overboard with his my-way-or-the- highway.? Could he be creating some of this locker room problem we are hearing about? I do not recall Tony being used that much this season. It seems to me that a player of his calibre should be in every game tor a few plays till he shows that he doesn’t have it.
  All of a sudden, some of the players who had great starts last year like Royal and Stokely have not been in enough games to have shown what they can do. I know all about the practise evaluations and game plans and coach knows best etc etc……..but, Sheffler and Marshall are too valuable to lose. I’m sure I am wrong but that is what I am feeling.
         Also, If we get rid of Tony and Brandon those are two slots lost that we could have used for other needs in the off season.and draft. I would appreciate an opinion of some of you experienced and knowlegeable guys. Thanks McManJoe

by McManJoe on Jan 2, 2010 12:51 PM MST reply actions  

A lot of people have pointed out that the plan doesn’t use TE as receivers with the frequency that Shanahan did, at that point Scheffler does become expendable. Also, if he isn’t being used to showcase his talents, his contract demands become smaller [and thus could potentially cause frustration for him]. It also lowers what we could get in return.

I haven’t ever really been a Scheffler fan and his inability to even attempt to breakup the interception last week bugged me. I don’t care what happens with him one way or another. Marshall, I wish we would get everyone on the same page about [GM/HC/player] — but I don’t really see that happening.

by Todd Jewell on Jan 2, 2010 12:55 PM MST up reply actions  

Todd Jewell

Thanks for comment. McManJoe

by McManJoe on Jan 2, 2010 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

tony scheffler

good point about the interception. tony is remarkably awkward for a pro athelete- he ends many of his runs with a bizarre half-slide, half-oops I fell again like austin powers. am very happy he has gotten such a good reputation because it would be great to see something come back for him in a trade or RFA signing. will be happy to see his space freed-up for quinn, who shows signs of good athleticism and saavy in his special teams action.

by LouisWright on Jan 2, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I hear you, and the questions are reasonable (and reasoned).

Scheffler – A coach isn’t going to use a player simply because he is very good. Scheffler is an EXCELLENT receiving TE, but receiving TEs aren’t part of our system anymore. (We got Graham, and excellent BLOCKING TE from NE; blocking TEs are a part of our system more so than recieving TEs. The same with other positions. Even if we had an excellent FB, it wouldn’t help us. Our system doesn’t use FBs much at all).

Scheffler gets his passes, but we shouldn’t build our system around a single player.

In the case of Royal, there are a couple of issues. First and foremost, I haven’t heard any complaints from Royal. Second, his decrease is either due to a decrease in talent, or (my thinking) less passes his way. WIth Marshall’s dominance, why throw elsewhere? (In the game against the Colts, even though we lost, we kept going to Marshall because nobody could come close to stopping him).

Last, though it may sound harsh, it MUST BE “my way or the highway” when a coach runs a team. It isn’t a democracy, nor a committee approach. When the players, fans, or (God forbid) owners try to run the team at the field level, the team goes to heck. If players aren’t on board, they can go to another team. A coach can only take responsibility for wins and losses if he is the sole individual with sovereign control over field level decisions.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 1:24 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

Coaching Styles

Steve, I must again respectfully disagree. I strongly disagree with the "my way or the highway" style of coaching.

Denver got John Elway, not because he disliked Baltimore, but because his father was a decent college football coach who despised the "my way or the highway" style of coaching that Frank Kush had in Baltimore. Batlimore’s loss was Denver’s gain and Elway thrived under different styles of coaching.

Again, I don’t think anyone benefits when the coach makes himself the center of attention.and I think with the modern athlete that the Kush style of coaching falls short. I am not even so sure it is working all that great in the current Belichik form

by Baltimore Bronco on Jan 2, 2010 1:53 PM MST up reply actions  

It depends on the context that you mean.

My way or the highway can mean different things to different people.

To me it doesn’t mean “ruthless dictator with a nasty attitude”. And at any rate, I don’t think there is anything to indicate that McDaniels is a tyranical guy.

That said, to me, a coach must be the final word and his word is law. He can (and must) accept input, and he needs to constantly re-evaluate his work. At the end of the day, the buck stops with him. If players aren’t on board with what a coach is running, the players (not the coach) need to go. If the players do what the coach says to do, and the team STILL loses, the coach has to go.

The problem is, if the coaches don’t do what the coach dicates on the field, how do we know who is responsible?

In McDaniels’ case, I don’t think he is being “the center of attention”. Frankly, Brandon “the glove” Marshall has done everything imaginable to stain the Denver papers since he has been here. I freely admit my bias here, but I think the bias is based in historical patterns. Still, they are only my opinion, and I respect the disagreement.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 2:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Fair Enough

I just don’t get the sense that McDaniels is self-critical enough of his own work. Sure, that will have to wait for the off-season. I just think that his cookie cutter offense has been figured out by opposing defenses and other things should be tried. I wonder what the true dynamics of that locker room are now. If Sheffler’s comments are that the offense needs to be lengthened and revved up, maybe that is a good idea.

Let’s just hope the Broncos win tomorrow, and things fall into place with the other teams. If neither happens, then I hope some healthy self-criticism takes place and that includes a more versatile offense. The injury to Ryan Harris didn’t help, but I found the offensive line play has deteriorated badly under McDaniels.

I don’t think the problem is just Sheffler and Marshall. Marshall may be just another prima donna WR with a short shelf life with serial teams. Its a pity, he has so much natural talent. Gaffney is great for certain roles, but Denver needs some versatility currently lacking. Just my humble opinion.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jan 2, 2010 3:51 PM MST up reply actions  

More room for agreement!

Again, if we stay focused on Marshall, I have to say that Marshall seems to be the problem child here, NOT McDaniels. But now you are again discussing a seperate issue – accountability for the season. I think McDaniels has done a lot of good, but I also think there are many fair critical comments to be made too. Here’s an area where we agree: the offensive line.

I think that we have moved to far from our OL’s strengths, which is to say, an agile, zone blocking group. We’ve done a lot of power running (with little success in short yardage), whereas a commitment to zone blocking in short yardage plays to our strengths.

I don’t mind if we transition away from zone blocking (I’d rather keep it), but if we DO transition, I’d rather we do it after bringing in bigger bodies.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 5:38 PM MST up reply actions  

The Line

I am rather unfocused today, but I appreciate your moving with the flow.

I agree with you completely on the offensive line. If McDaniels wants to use a different blocking scheme, he needs different personnel. We should be flying through defenses with the offensive backs we have now.

by Baltimore Bronco on Jan 2, 2010 5:49 PM MST up reply actions  

It really depends on the player

I’ve never coached football, so I can’t speak directly to this. However, I do manage a team of project managers that I need to keep focused and accountable and I very deliberately use different styles of management with each of them. For me, there is no “my way or the highway” style, and I’ve never known many successful managers who follow this approach. This is because they people react differently to different kinds of guidance. Some need a soft touch and encouragement, others need to be allowed to make mistakes and then get boxed back in-line.

I don’t mean to get all annoying-MBA-nerd on you guys, but one rule that has long served me well comes from Jim Collins’ book, Good To Great (a classic business book). That rule, his very first, most fundamental rule is, “Who First”. That is, you want people who can either do the job, or be trained to do the job. Problem employees, even if very talented, generally suck up way more energy and time than a good, reliable employee who can be trained to perform well within the culture.

I know this doesn’t quite stack up when you’re talking about the rarefied talents of an elite NFL WR, but don’t discount the “Who First” rule I’d say McDaniels seems to be pursuing to a T.

by jvill on Jan 2, 2010 3:29 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

Good point.

There is different leadersip for different places. As a teacher, I had a reputation as a “students’ teacher”. In other words, kids loved me. I wan’t very authoritarian, and used a lot of humor and charm. This was with a group of sixth graders.

As a HS defensive coordinator, I was still considered the “good coach” in a “good coach / bad coach” dynamic. But I was still much more authoritarian than in the class room setting. Setting plays a key role.

For example, a college educated person leading a group of college educated professionals is dealing with egos, time limits, quality of work issues, and perhaps regulatory issues such as company policy. But in combat, a sergeant has no time to be questioned when a decision has to be made about who takes the patrol or who charges the machine gun nest. You do what you are told, and there is no time for niceties.

Indeed, despite the egos of million dollar players (and even their collegiate qualifications), I would liken a football field and the required style of leadership to be nearer to combat leadership and far removed from upper or mid level business management.

That’s just my opinion of course. I’ve worked in law enforcement, education, clinical counseling, and the military. I’ve been a supervisor (and a subordinate) in most of those settings. Given my friendly, outgoing, and humorous approach to life, I much prefer avoiding “my way or the highway”. But with the greatest respect, I submit that I want a coach that sets firm limits, and has no patience for players (however talented they are) who hurt the image or morale of the team. Questioning the coach’s authority is the sole domain of the ownership, not the players.

Can a coach cross the line? Sure. I’ve always considered Bobby Knight to be a tyrant and a buffoon. His abuse (both physical and mental) crosses the ethical (and even legal) boundries of good coaching. But we’re talking about Brandon Marshall here, who has a long track record of acting hurt, getting in legal trouble, and doing things on and off the field (glove incident, fight with a TV, many more), that make me tend to think that he is (sigh) once again the culprit. McDaniels didn’t start the fire (in my opinion).

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

I think this can be seen in an earlier quote this season

Where mcdaniels stated that he’s about teaching football and that it takes different approaches for different players. Saying some need reps, some just need a draw up and some need both. I think the managerial style you’re referring to is at heart in line with the coaches quoted style of leading/teaching.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 2, 2010 9:11 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

You got your 101 and a ProBowl nod, now go sit down, shut up and don't punch any TVs!

We could get more for Brandon than we did for Jay.
Josh McHiavelliDaniels is a genius!

broncorat

"Our word for the week has been accountability...and anyone that showed any indifference to that, we’ll play without them, and we’ll play well anyway."

by broncorat on Jan 2, 2010 1:48 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

Let's keep the discussion respectful

Nice write up ‘teach but

Let’s keep the discussion respectful
nearly had me spitting my tea all over my new laptop. Suppose its worth a try!

by mikebirty on Jan 2, 2010 2:21 PM MST reply actions  

lol

Well, you know…

: )

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 3:00 PM MST up reply actions  

HT

What is going on? You capitalized the name oakland. (unless he goes to Oakland of course) What is the world coming to?

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Jan 2, 2010 4:31 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

I know, I know.

Much of MHR’s readership comes from other sources. You may be reading MHR right now. But some folks are reading MHR articles linked as a part of YAHOO SPORTS, Sports Illustrated, CBS Sports Line, and other fine internet entities.

While typing “oakland” in lower case is a fun inside joke within MHR, I’m afraid it looks petty to our friends and readers that aren’t familiar with MHR on a day to day basis. You’ll continue to get my honest opinons on all things under the sun, but I really need to be careful that my humor doesn’t call into question my ability to command the rules of English composition.

I’m still a little bit silly though. Have you noticed the captions that go with the photos at the start of my articles the last few weeks? If not, you might start with the one at the top of this page.

: )

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 6:00 PM MST up reply actions  

I understand

However, your articles are always so good, it is rare that I get to write anything besides recommended. It took the opportunity to hopefully make you smile. By the way, the article was recommended.

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Jan 2, 2010 7:01 PM MST up reply actions  

We need them to win today! We can capitalize today! LOL

A proud prognostication of 10-6 in 2009!!! (April 2009 prediction)

Revised to 11-5 due to reality!

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on Jan 3, 2010 8:50 AM MST up reply actions  

I guess I have to question the timing

We can all say this is a meaningful game, but looking at it realistically, this game will likely have no signifigance. The Bengals are likely to rest their players, Baltimore likely will beat the hell out of the Raiders, and this game will be an afterthought.

I agree in accountability and being for the team, but I seriously doubt whatever prompted McDaniels to bench Sheff and BM had not occured earlier this year. We all know what BM has been like and his attitude and his issues, yet somehow he magically changed in the span of a week after he was suspended for preseason games, or was it there was an agreement between McDaniels and BM thatMcDaniels would focus the offense toward BM with the idea that BM would be traded this offseason, BM pretends to be a team guy and then gets what he wants, a ticket out of here and a fat pay check. But now BM decides to shut it down and McDaniels feels like BM is trying to screw him so he benches him now for attitude or whatever you want. My point being that the attitude and accountability has been an issue for roughly 11 weeks and now we get benching in a meaningless game, if you preach it then preach it for 16 weeks, not the end of the year in a game that will likely not mean anything. That is my issue with it, why not have suspended BM and Sheff, then at least you can collect some money from them, but my guess is that there are not enough grounds to suspend them for this game, and it is more McDaniels trying to make a point, but it seems pretty senseless and pointless since he has allowed this attitude(s) to fester on the team all year and ignored it with the hopes they could win some ball games.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman

by Broncoman on Jan 2, 2010 5:25 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

It may be speculation on your part Broncoman...

…but I tend to agree with you here. I imagine that Marshall has not been towing the line for some time now, though he has been great on the field. I can’t know for sure of course, but I agree this has been a lingering problem.

The only thing I DO feel confident about (based on what we DO know) is that the fault for the present situation lies with the guy that has been causing problems for our team well before the arrival of McDaniels, namely Marshall.

I wonder if Marshall, during his formative years, learned a bit too much opposite Javon Walker. Hmmmmm.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 6:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Poor timing

A week or two back I posted that Marshall should be traded primarily on the basis of history…a leopard changing his spots kind of thing. Unfortunately, he had one game left in the season to reveal those spots again. This episode will probably cost us a much higher pick than would have been garnered otherwise. We also have some aging veterans that may end up on the trading block due to the need to find the right pieces and grab a few extra draft picks to fill in next year’s draft. As much as I like Baily he could be one such candidate. In today’s market it seems “high cost” franchise type players might be more detrimental to hold rather than trade for cap room and picks. This team is at least a dominant pass rusher and dominant linebacker away from making deep runs in the playoffs and we are a few cards short on offense as well, center/guard specifically.

Personally, I’m ready for the season to end after this game so the team can focus on continuing to rebuild.

by BroncoCUbuffs on Jan 2, 2010 5:49 PM MST reply actions  

Marshall’s sudden conversion to a righteous path was out of character considering his past behavior as outlined in John Bena’s piece. Marshall is concerned about one thing: money. It is interesting to note that none of Marshall’s quotes concerned the team, only his goals. His reversion to type is no surprise. I support McDaniels and his quest for high character team oriented players. Long term this will mean consistent championship runs as opposed to the mediocrity of the past several seasons. Disfunctional relationships are characterized by periods of calm broken by explosions. Someone has to break the cycle or the disfunctional narcissistic behaviors will continue. McDaniels has stepped up and called the question. He has broken the disfunctional cycle with Marshall and Scheffler and has signaled to the others that he will not tolerate drama kings. I am glad he had the nerve to do so because it portends a bright future for our team

by Mile High Mac on Jan 2, 2010 6:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Good stuff on predicting the need to trade.

As I mentioned in the article, Marshall didn’t commit to staying with Denver when questioned a few weeks ago. I thinks several of us saw this coming.

Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 2, 2010 6:06 PM MST up reply actions  

I think other teams

May be wary but if great enough need (cough Miami) they can either put him in parcell boot camp or (cough jets) convence themselves it was only an issue with Denver and not marshal (cough Edwards). I think I’m coming down with a flu here

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 2, 2010 9:19 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Comments, good and bad

As for Tony Scheffler, rumors has it that he was complaining to team mates after the Eagles game that he is not being used as much as previously and it is not playing to his strengths.

In some situations I agree with that, the Eagles have had problems covering the TE this year and I was surprised not to see Scheffler more in a game where we were so depleted at WR. But be that as it may, if Scheffler has made a lose comment or two to a few players about how he could have done more then the response from Mcdaniels is entirely out of proportion, on the other hand, if Scheffler has consistently and openly complained in the lockerroom or another team setting then he certainly should be told and showed that if you have a problem with the coach, you talk to the coach.

With all that said, I think Mcdaniels has shown very poor judgement in not sitting Scheffler down and telling him straight up what the deal is, but rather telling the media and then having the TE coach tell Scheffler he is on the scout team this week in practice and will not suit up tomorrow. I have seen both good and bad organization communcation pathways and the way Mcdaniels handled this one is a prime example of poor communation that will lead to dissent. Mcdaniels is creating the impression that he is elevated to a position where his decisions are unassailable and indisputable and in using other coaches as messenger boys he is removing himself from questions and criticism leaving the player to draw his own conclusions that will never be good.

As for Marshall, it is a special situation, while Scheffler is a bit of a lunchpailer Marshall is a superstar and one of the best players on the team and in the league. Marshall has clearly had some issues over the years, legal as well as motivational, no question about that.

When it comes to injuries it is always difficult, we have certainly seen enough players deteriorate into near vegetables because of untreated head injuries and we saw just last year how an injury in house was misdiagnosed and treated for an entire season (Marshall’s own hip injury), so when it comes to a player being injured I am more willing to accept the players evaluation than the coaches. I genuinely do believe that Marshall is injured and I believe that if he tried to go out there he could either aggrevate his injury or would be unable to perform at an acceptable level, neither result is desirable.

The big misstep to me is Mcdaniels calling out Marshall in public like this, if he had told Marshall to practice Friday and test it, while listing Marshall as a game time decision this could have been avoided. This is nothing major of course, it is a minor rift if any and should be easily forgotten.

As for Marshall not committing to being in Denver next year, I think we have ample evidence that every player is available and so committing to a team now would be stupid, he knows that if a trade offer comes in Mcdaniels will listen to it and since no contract has been offered yet despite promises of doing so I can see why he is careful with promising anything.

As for the assertion that New England is character driven, I would question that, Adalius Thomas, Randy Moss, Merriweather, Bodden and Springs are all people who have run afoul of the law or the league or the team at least once.

by gyldenlove on Jan 2, 2010 7:04 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

it is a stark contrast

If I am Sheff, watching Celek go for 120 yds and 2 TDs would burn me up. He is such a weapon and so utilized. Painful. I love McD but his playcalling is getting brutal, especially on third down.

by Bradoncadonc on Jan 2, 2010 8:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Fair assesment

I would counter that you don’t see grahm giving up on plays. It was also scheff who
needed a sit down with the coach preseason because scheff was afaid he’d be less a target this year.

I'm glad we had this talk.
(signature courtesy of TJ Johnson)

by BroncoInExile on Jan 2, 2010 9:26 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

As a pointy-eared friend once told me

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or one.”

Is it fair for the majority of the team to suffer the selfish needs of a few, even if they are superstars?

I expect the team to cut some players that we might have expected to be sure keepers.

I have held that thought for the last month. I also expect that McX will do the unexpected again.

Steve, I’m glad we had this little (Chalk) Talk. =)

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jan 3, 2010 1:57 AM MST reply actions  

Give Coach Time

A first year system with over 50% player tunover and a schedule the talking heads said was so hard the Bronco’s would be lucky toe win 3 games. The Bronco’s will end up 9-8 this year and that still doesn’t make people happy. The Steelers, Colts, and Patriots were not made in 1 season. Let’s purge the team of self inflated egos and let Coach McDaniels have a chance to rebuild this team.
Brandon Marshall is a great receiver but just like Jay Cutler he is a coach/team killer. I can’t imagine what kind of attitude he will have when some team finally pays him, then what will he have to play for?
By the way great article.

by DBORANGE on Jan 3, 2010 9:15 AM MST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

MileHighReport(MHR) is the ultimate independent resource for the Denver Broncos on the web. Along with MHR Radio, the official podcast of MHR, we look to provide hardcore Denver Broncos fans positive, independent insight about the Broncos, 24/7/365!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Haleycriesalot_small
Pre-Free Agency Thoughts
Pumpkin_small
MLBs - what we have and what Fox and Del Rio historically want
Ph_small
2011: MHR I Need Your Help With An Upcoming Post
Zozobra_small
Explaining What "IT" Is that Tebow Has: An Analysis of the Art of Miracles
Pumpkin_small
The risk/reward analysis on drafting RBs earlier vs later

Recent FanPosts

0_1979_ford_f100-sequin_small
QBs and what MHR wants???
Small
Denver Broncos Draft Strategy - Analyzing 2011 Offseason
Small
Broncos Roster needs – offseason 2012
Cube-orange_small
what makes a good nickel cornerback?
Small
Spread-ing History
Denver-broncos-wallpaper_1__small
The First Real Signing
La_la_land_small
Kids In A Candy Store
Small
A Shot at a Mock
Small
Broncos positions of need – off season 2012
0_1979_ford_f100-sequin_small
My GM box 2.0

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Getting Social With MHR

Facebook_badge_medium_medium
Black_generated_button

Milehighreport_email_medium

Web Stuff


 

Listed on BlogShares Top NFL Fan Sites


General Manager/Head Coach

Milehighreport_small John Bena

2011_small KaptainKirk

Asst. Head Coach

Dadndaughter_small Tim Lynch

2_small Sayre Bedinger

Bronco-pride_small Brian Shrout

Broncohoodie_in_africa_small Troy Hufford

Position Coach

182px-jesus_small Jezru

Flag_canada_small Colby

Img_0007_small Topher Doll

Small zsheely

Hottie_small Sarah_Marshall

Quality Control

800px-john_brown_painting_small mdierk