Every Rose Has Its Thorn...Life After Mike Nolan
Love--like defensive coordinators--is a game of easy come and easy go. Just listen to the McDJ on the radio.
Now that Mike Nolan is heading to Miami to work on his South Beach tan, we are left to ponder (at least for a few days) the fate of the Denver Broncos defense. And lonely Broncomaniacs everywhere want to know:
Was is somethin' we did or somethin' we said? Did our words not come out right?
We may never know the exact reason. What we do know is that Mike Nolan is gone. And it's not sitting well with a lot of us. The latest rumor from the Boston Herald is that McDaniels wasn't a fan of the number of times Nolan blitzed this year so the marriage had to end. Personally, I'd like to see the Broncos blitz on every play of the game, but that's why I'm just a stats guy. Either way, as much as we may need a reason for Nolan's departure, we may never get a good one. He may have left Denver because he's an East Coast guy. He may have left because he wants to work with Bill Parcells. Perhaps he left because he's a closet Jennifer Lopez fan.
The more important question is where does this leave the future of the Denver Broncos?
If one believes the rumors coming out of Denver, that future is coming in the form of former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees. As our own Sayre Bedinger wrote yesterday, Pees is very likely the choice.
Dean Pees? Who? Are we rebounding too fast? Can we give this guy our love so quickly?
Broncos fans, although we all lie close together, we feel miles apart inside. But as always, the stats are here to help mend your broken hearts.
Follow me after the jump and we'll check out Pees' defenses over the past four years. And maybe you'll feel like blitzing a little less.
I Listen to our 5-2 Song Playing on the Radio
Before getting into the numbers, a brief thanks to Mike Nolan for his work in 2009.
By almost all accounts, and from casual fans to league insiders, Nolan did a bang-up job with this year´s Denver Broncos. Denver´s inferior personnel would not allow for a pure switch to the 3-4, so Nolan went back in time and brought out a good old-fashioned 5-2 defense.
And for six glorious weeks it worked about as well as it could. Since the 5-2 is a good run defense, the Broncos got a lot of mileage early in the season by placing the two outside linebackers at the line of scrimmage. This didn´t require as much athleticism at outside linebacker as other 3-4 teams possessed. And, as noted earlier, Nolan blitzed. And early in the season, the blitzing worked.
After six games, however, the novelty wore off and the run defense crumbled. In the last third of the season, if you really wanted to gash the Broncos, you ran to the left side of the line. Here you would find the worst three run defenders on the Broncos defense: Kenny Peterson, Elvis Dumervil, and D.J. Williams. Once teams figured this out, they worked the left side like a nervous tick. Even the Chiefs and the always-combustible Oakland Raiders figured this formula out. In the last two divisional games, K.C. and Oakland ran the ball over the left guard-center on 42% of their rush attempts, averaging almost 9 yards per carry. Without beating a dead Bronco, there is a reason Brian Dawkins led the team in solo tackles this year aside from the fact that he is immortal. As any coach can tell you, if you are running a 5-2 defense and a defensive back is leading the team in solo tackles, you've got some big-time problems.
Outside of the Indianapolis game, it was interesting to see Nolan take the 5-2 experiment through a full 16-game schedule. Absolutely fascinating. Although the 5-2 has the same general functionality of the 3-4, the ability of the 5-2 to disguise zone blitzes is more limited. One might have expected Nolan to deviate from this look at some point during the season. However, he pushed the boundaries of the 5-2 to its breaking point and gave as good as he got. Given his personnel in Miami, which is more talented at the line of scrimmage than Denver's personnel, I would be shocked to see him touch the 5-2 again. But we do wish him well.
Somebody New? Dean Pees
Can Dean Pees be as effective as Mike Nolan was this year?
I decided to break the Patriots defense down statistically over the four years that Pees was defensive coordinator to find out. Before I give you the results, it's interesting to know that the Patriots, while talented up front with the likes of Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork, have experienced significant player losses due to injuries in the last several years. Pees, even if you don't believe in the numbers, should at least get a decent amount of credit for his ability to plug players into his scheme and get production out of them. As this quote from the Patriots' website indicated:
In 2008, the Patriots allowed 19.3 points per game and achieved an 11-5 record despite using 22 different starters on defense, including four rookies.
Any defensive coordinator would be happy with that result, given the circumstances. But the truth is that all of Pees' numbers were indicative of this type of success. Rather than going through each of his four seasons, I simply took the average of all four and compared them to both the 4-year NFL average and the 4-year Broncos average. Here were the results:
| Team | Rushing Yards / Game | Rushing Yards / Play | Passing Yards / Game | Passing Yards / Play | Interception Rate | Sacks / Pass Attempt | 3rd Down Pct | 4th Down Pct | Red Zone Pct | Goal to Go% | Points / Game |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| NE | 103 | 4.21 | 200 | 6.33 | 3.58% | 0.08 | 37.77% | 37.47% | 53.63% | 60.46% | 17.25 |
| DEN | 133 | 4.52 | 205 | 6.59 | 2.69% | 0.07 | 40.15% | 54.55% | 52.96% | 70.56% | 23.25 |
| NFL | 115 | 4.17 | 212 | 6.49 | 3.05% | 0.07 | 39.07% | 50.64% | 51.98% | 68.07% | 21.48 |
Try not to laugh (or cry) at Denver's numbers over the last four years.
Pees' defenses have been better than the average NFL defense across the board, but here is what stands out from these numbers:
- Pees' defenses have been better in allowing less yards per rush and pass.
- Pees' defenses have been better in turnovers and sacks.
- Pees' defenses have been better in getting the other team off the field on 3rd downs.
- Pees' defenses have been better on 4th down and in goal-to-goal situations
- Pees' defenses are close the league average in the red zone.
The last column interests me the most, which is Points Allowed. Pees' defenses were significantly better than the league average. Allowing only 17 points a game in any season will put you in the top 10 in defense--each and every year.
Many of you will remember from a few weeks ago a piece in which I gave an equation that helps to predict winning percentage within 6% on average over the last 23 years. The equation uses only two variables--points scored and points against. The reason I mention it once again is that is useful as a speculative tool here. If Pees becomes the defensive coordinator for the Broncos, and he can maintain his 4-year average of 17.25 points allowed, then the Broncos would simply need to score the same number of points they scored this year (20.4 per game, which many were disappointed with) in order to be a 10-win team.
Clearly I'm speculating a bit, but Pees, if history is any indication, can make a difference. His teams just don't give up a lot of points. And Denver's offense is going to improve. This bodes well. This bodes very well.
Well enough to get over the loss of Mike Nolan?
Can you throw Vince Wilfork in the deal and ask me again?
15 recs |
152 comments
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Comments
Great job my friend!
Remember the credo better the devil you know!
Fans are scared of the unkown…I remember my first rection to Kyle Orton for example…..the WTF is going on.
Pees can do a good job, and I have a feeling that maybe Wilfork and/or Seymour may end up here.
Awesome post!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Thanks, mate! Wilfork is a bad dude, for sure. Power combined with mean.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
I think NE is going to have a hard
time retaining both Wilfork and Mankins. They may have to let one of them go. I think Mankins is a little over rated. I would love to get Wilfork. He is in my opinion the best 3-4 NT in the league. I do not think the patriots will let him walk
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 20, 2010 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
not done reading yet...
but DJ led the team in tackles. BDawk was second (and that’s still really bad). Any time your FS has over 100 tackles, you’ve been in for a long year
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
ok now I'm done
another great post as always TJ, though I think you’re a bit hard on Doom & DJ’s run-stopping abilities…
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Negative-
The author is spot on. The left side of our defence was AWful, has been for years. Dumervil and DJ are suspect in this category – I’m an advocate of using 92 situationally and trading DJ to the quickest bidder. Williams has to go. We need a legitimate end in free agency..
by quarterhorse on Jan 20, 2010 10:32 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
What kind of value do you think we could get for a LB who has led our team in tackles for years and years? 1st rounder? 1st and 3rd? Something like that? Any players come to mind?
I ask this because I would have NO IDEA what we could get for him. I am in favor of trading him, though, if we could get a sweet deal out of it, especially if we end up going after McClain in the draft.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I think the play is this..
Draft day manuevering. We need second and third round picks, I don’t think with his salary we could expect to get a first rounder out of Williams – if they take that inside LB everyone’s so hot on then a third rounder would be fine. His salary (thanks to a late season move from Mikey last year) will have teams thinking twice, even if they haven’t done their homework.
by quarterhorse on Jan 20, 2010 10:46 AM MST up reply actions
meh I'm still in the 'get DJ a coach and a position' camp
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
by Drizzt396 on Jan 20, 2010 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I've always like DJ
but I’ve been like a broken record with my complaints about him. Some of the stuff he appears to still not get right are very fundamental things. If he’s not getting them by now, I don’t know how much coaching will help. The thing that drives me nuts with him more than anything, is he always takes horrible pursuit angles at a ball carrier. That’s stuff that should get worked out in the pop warner or high school level.
I do agree that the constant shifts in position and scheme has not been good for him, though….
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
when positions change, the angles change?
dunno how else to explain it…he definitely didn’t do that his rookie year, from what I remember
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
DJ isn't great
We all know what Al Wilson was.A great ILB and leader.He not only stuffed the run but punished the runner.DJ’s been here long enough that it’s obvious he isn’t in the great catagory and we should look for someone who is dominating,not just good sometimes.As mentioned above he takes poor angles and gives up too many big plays.
by Broncolorado on Jan 20, 2010 7:24 PM MST up reply actions
Me, too.
Again, and this is basically his story for his whole career, DJ was learning a new position. If we just leave him alone, and let him grow into his position, then I think DJ would be worth every penny.
And even though he has been moved all over the field, the man still leads our team in tackles. I don’t think we need to trade him, I think we need to get him some help.
If we don’t draft McClain this spring, my head will literally explode.
I swear Maualuga would have been a great, Ted-blocking ILB this past year if we had drafted him.
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
Drizzt, thanks. It is possible they compensate for Kenny Peterson, but..
the data that I’m looking at and the film is showing this. Dumervil is getting better at it, though. Williams is hit and miss. Streaky player. Very streaky.
I would be surprised to see Peterson here, honestly, although I like the guy’s fire.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
by TJ Johnson on Jan 20, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
after watching the KC film for this post:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/1/3/1232253/this-is-not-a-doomsday-post-d-j
I can conclude that Peterson is terrible against the run, but McBean should be a starter next year and as long as he continues to play like he has been. the focus is on DJ, but all of the front 7 is analyzed on these plays.
the first part is written emotionally after the KC loss. the second part (the divide is clearly denoted in the post) was written a day later and no one really saw it because the post wasn’t on the front page anymore.
i think this film analysis supports your statistical analysis of the peterson-dumervil-williams triumvirate, TJ.
by bailey disciple on Jan 20, 2010 2:55 PM MST up reply actions
...and we have another year with another DC
if they remain in the same positions and there’s still no noticeable improvement I’ll change my tune—the new DC should watch lots of film and figure out how these guys can be effective consistently—because it’s undeniable that they can be effective
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
DJ did lead the league in tackles, but that doesn't make him a good run defender.
A good run defender can stuff up the middle and assist the Dline in tackling the RB for 2 yards or less (hopefully in the backfield). DJ is a sidelines to sidelines player. He’ll tackle you for 4 or 5 yards all day long. If he gets beat and the RB breaks contain, it is usually DJ or Dawk that runs him down (Jamaal Charles).
So, if DJ would develop a downhill game and meet the RB at whatever hole the Oline creates, then yes, he would be a good run defender. I think that a better description for DJ is “a good, opportunistic tackler”. He’ll make the tackle most of the time, but he is not a run stuffer.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
well when linemen are coming into the second level to block you...
it’s kinda hard to stuff…
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Good point.
It’s like Knowshon Moreno in reverse. Knowshon and DJ are kindred spirits, of sorts. Touche, Drizzt.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
I just look back to his rookie year...
DJ is a natural strong-side 4-3 LB. But I think given time he’ll turn into a great 3-4 MLB. But that’s the key—given time>. Which is something he hasn’t been given at all in the course of his time here. I think he’s an opportunistic tackler because he hasn’t been comfy in any position so he’s finding ways to get off his block that occurs right after the snap almost every play…
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
LB is an attacking position, though.
If you are responsible for stopping the run, you do it, whether that is strongside 4-3 or MLB 3-4. Like ncm said a few comments up, he does take some bad angles, at times. If we did trade him, though, I think now would be the time, when his value would be the highest.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
fair enough
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Drizzt, yes, thanks for this, I really meant solo tackles because was the data set i was looking at:-)!!!!
I’ll fix that right now.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
that makes far more sense
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
5-2
From my eye’s it looked to me like we ran alot less of the 5-2 after our 6-0 start. I saw alot more of 3 down line men and 1 backer standing up at the line. When we started the season they had 5 guys with their hands on the ground.
Portability of Scheme
It worries me a little— in the short term, at least— if Denver is going to blitz less. The idea of the NE defense is great and all, but Denver seems to lack the personnel to play it at NE’s level. I imagine they’re really going to have to look at players like Price, Wootten and even Dunlap in the draft, as you can’t simultaneously not blitz and not have playmakers on the Dline. McBean and Fields are nice attrition players— the left side is a problem— but they’re going to have to get more production out of that group in order to successfully mimic NE, IMO. Barring a great FA haul, I would expect that things will now get worse quicker than they’ll get better on defense.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 20, 2010 9:56 AM MST reply actions
My $0.02
I am really feeling like, if we land this Dean Pees, we could be looking at landing Richard Seymour, or even trading for Vince Wilfork. NE has Wilfork’s replacement in Ron Brace, and Seymour is UFA this year. The UnDead will probably forget to franchise tag him, and he’ll leave on his own accord, and would maybe enjoy reuniting with his old DC.
Call me anything you want, but I have this feeling, bro. Something big is going to happen this offseason, and our team is going to be the better for it.
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
If Wilfork goes untagged, we should nab him. I like your gut feelings, zog.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Hell, even if he is, the McD-Belichick relationship should work out a sign-and-trade for VW.
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
I like it.
Belichick – “Josh, I’d like a 1st 2nd and 4th rounder for VW.”
McD – “How about we get VW for a 7th rounder and a hoodie hug.”
Belichick – “Hoodie hug?”
McD – “You wear your favorite hoodie and I wear my favorite hoodie while we hug it out.”
Belichick – “Sounds great, Josh. Cya for dinner.”
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:46 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
hahaha! Awesome, KB. Simply awesome.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
I'd love to see a Belichick/McDaniels sitcom. CBS is looking for some original stuff, anyways, right?
I’d watch that show. lol
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That would be GOLD
you’re on fire KB!
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
I think Wilfork is unrestricted.
Sporting News has him that way, at least.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 20, 2010 2:04 PM MST up reply actions
Good call.
I just fact checked on nfl.com and Wilfork has already played 6 seasons, so that makes him a UFA, like you said.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions
So's some guy named Casey Hampton I believe...
….two of the best NTs in the NFL available in one year.
Be interesting to see what plays out/
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
I think the Steelers would be foolish not to have Hampton next year.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
Uncapped year
Hey Mr Bowlen.Would you pay some big money for a premier NT?This is the year to do it.
by Broncolorado on Jan 20, 2010 7:46 PM MST up reply actions
Nice article
I agree, the scheme wasnt satisfactory in the last 10 games. The game I last saw crazy blitzes was the 1st chargers game. I remember seeing like 6 guys looking completely lost, and when the ball was snapped, they jumped to life and looked like rabid dogs, and made the QB’s life hell. Towards the end, namely the Eagles game for me, I remember those same people would all be dropping back and we would only bring 3 rushers. I wanna blitz like we did against SD the first time. We gave Rivers headaches. That was the only bad game he had this year, as all his big plays were really just his receivers bailing him out of bad throws
And on Vince Wilfork
I mentioned a want for him as well in my offseason wish list. With everyone making there wishes, I thought he would be on some peoples. As of now, me and you are the only ones who have even mentioned Vince and Denver TJ. I don’t know why more people don’t say the same either, as Vince said he wouldn’t want to be tagged, meaning he wants to test the FA waters
by DBroncs1414 on Jan 20, 2010 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
I agree with you, DB. I want Vince here, too. I just don't post as often as maybe I should...
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
DB, Vince Wilfork is a man among candy-#$%ed teenagers. That guy can eat up 4 blockers like a sponge.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
You don't have to block out "candy-starved teenagers", Dude.
Wilfork just ate all the candy. It happens. The fact that he still has the appetite to eat up 4 blockers is a feat unto itself.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
And that looked like Doom's best game
in my eyes. He was a force in that game. Coincidence? I think not….
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
I don't know
His 4 sack performance against the Browns could be his best game. I think 3 of the 4 sacks came on 3rd down. He was unstoppable in the 2nd half of that game.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Good point
For some reason, that game always slips my mind when reviewing this season….Of course, considering the opponent….
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
best game, but best moment?
when he loomed over Eli like Doom incarnate on his second sack (the blindside forced fumble) easily
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
DB, good points, and thanks for the kind words. For the first 6, things were pretty shiny and new. And how many teams were running
a pure 5-2 in the NFL? None. So it was very creative indeed.
If you remember in the SD game, the pressure came from a lot of delayed blitzes and inside stunts. Clearly the film was circulated. And given that we already put our OLBs at the line of scrimmage, our ability to disguise anything coming from the outside (other than a CB or S blitz) was limited.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
This situation is as bad as
Ricky Rocket’s Hairdo.
Stupid Glam Rockers!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Thanks for reading, Kap, even with the bad hair!
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Good job on this post
I read the same DPP article you did. Sounds like Denver will be forced to look for elite D-Line talent. Thank God. We’ve been looking for elite D-Line talent since 1979.
I agree with the idea that blitzing so much isn’t always a great thing. It means scheming your way to a successful play rather than simply having better players. It almost creates a built in excuse for passing on top flight defensive talent.
That excuse gets thrown out the door if Pees or Martindale take the reins.
I look for Denver to grab Dan Williams (in the draft) and a guy like Johnny Jolly or Marcus Spears (thru FA). I also forsee bigger and faster outside linebackers. Doom is a situational player, IMO, and I hope Denver can find a way to use him, but he may have to really turn the corner on pass defense (and actually play linebacker) to be on the field on 1st and 2nd downs.
I agree fully on Doom & DJ. Love ’em both but do the costs outweigh the benefits on these guys?
We can’t be worried about current personnel either. Denver needs to pick a scheme and stick with it. We’re not winning the Super Bowl next year, so lets start adding guys to our ideal scheme now and contuniue to add until we have exactly what we want in our ideal scheme.
We need to stop thinking in terms of next season and start thinking in terms of a few seasons from now.
We’re going down the right path, but the albatross that was Shanny’s weakness will weigh down McDaniels’ success for a few seasons as he adds a competitive level of talent and depth on defense.
by super7 on Jan 20, 2010 10:04 AM MST reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd!
Build, build, build!
As a certain Caped Crusader once said, a successful warrior will “…learn to absorb necessary and acceptable losses, in order to achieve every possible gain!”
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
+1
Nice post super7. I agree with everything you just said except for:
We’re not winning the Super Bowl next year
Once we make the playoffs next year anything can happen my friend :-)
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Lombardi: Nolan's Departure is Win/Win
NFP: Lombardi on Nolan’s Departure
(reposting from comment in previous thread)
Good stuff. I hope people read your post here and Lombardi’s piece to get some good perspective on this.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
Great stuff
Lombardi thit that one out of the park.
We need to be patient and let Josh build the team he wants. You have 2 choices: Trust Josh or don’t trust Josh. If you don’t trust him, you’re going to HATE some of the stuff he’s gonna do in the next few years.
by super7 on Jan 20, 2010 10:16 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice work by Lombardi
But I am on the fence still. I don’t like changing coaches/schemes season to season because I feel that it slows growth…but who knows what will happen.
On the sideline or on in the booth?
Nolan called the game from the booth. The photo of Pees shows him working on the sideline. What are the advantages/disadvantages of each approach? Did Nolan choose the booth? Does McDanials prefer his guys on the sideline? How were the defensive calls relayed? Were they coming from the booth to someone on the sideline to Davis/Dawkins on the field? Does the defense have radio helmets or just the QB?
broncorat
"Our word for the week has been accountability...and anyone that showed any indifference to that, we’ll play without them, and we’ll play well anyway."
Answers
1. Sideline advantages: Better communication with your personnel and more hands-on sideline work with them when they aren’t on the field. (reverse this for booth disadvantages)
Sideline disadvantages: You have to get still shots or video of the game to see what is happening properly. Distractions are more prevalent. (reverse this for booth advantages)
2. I believe Nolan chose to be up in the booth.
3. I doubt McDaniels has a preference
4. Calls are relayed to a defensive player on the field
5. Booth to sideline to designated defensive player
6. Defense has radio helmets (this just was changed this year)
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I always thought it was ridiculous that a coach could radio a play to the qb but not the defense...
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
And DJ wears ours...
which is primarily a function of the number of plays he is in on. Like 100%
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 20, 2010 7:03 PM MST up reply actions
Pees vs Crennel/Mangini
Try to compare Pees Patriots defense to Crennels or Manginis, suddenly he doesn’t look quite as good as when you compare him to the likes of Jim Bates and Bob Slowick.
Also try to look at the trends:
Yards per game rank in the NFL: 6th, 4th, 10th, 11th in 2006, 07, 08 and 09.
Points per game rank: 2, 4, 8, 5. in 06, 07, 08, 09.
Interceptions rank: 4, 6, 15, 11 in 06, 07, 08 and 09.
Averages fail to consider the trend and those are all negative trends, Pees by all account took over one of the best units in the league if not the best and now they are merely above average and declining.
Beside the declining play of the Patriots defense under Pees there is also his health which caused him some serious problems this year, with the thin air in Denver that is going to be helped.
Take this as a word of warning, Pees may not be the solution and he may not even part of the equation so prepare for all eventualities.
Good insight
But please look at player personnel, which IMO is at least as important (if not more) than coaching personnel.
They have lost Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, and Asante Samuel in the last 2 offseasons. That’s about 50% of their defense and moreover, their 5 best defensive players.
It’s next to impossible to convince me that it was Pees’ fault that this team had weak depth or lacked talent on defense. I can’t imagine Bellichick calling Pees up and asking him who HE wanted to draft or what moves he thought Bellichick should make.
reminds me of Shanny's post-superbowl D...
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Player personnel
Sure they have lost some talent, but the slide started before they lost talent. The big slide is between 06 and 07, in 07 they added Meyo who was the rookie of the year, they had Seymour, Warren and Wilfork up front, they had Harrison and Vrabel. Sure they lost Asante Samuel, but they also lost Lawyer Milloy before that and it didn’t change the team much, they have always been able to scheme to make up for loss of a single player, but Pees couldn’t in 07 despite having a strong team.
Sure the 08 numbers are probably somewhat skewed by the exodus of players, but then is Pees taking over a unit with more talent in Denver? I don’t think so – and we weren’t that much behind them this year, so can Pees improve our defense?
Okay okay okay
First…against my better judgment, I gave you a rec despite the damn Poison references. UGH
Great read though…hopefully some of the haters will read this and get the picture that a switch in DC may not be the end of the world.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Haha, thanks sadaraine...look what the cat dragged in????
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Well I guess my comment is that is that Pees defense or Bilichik
To me, Belichick has always controlled the Pats defense, not the DC (at least since Romeo Crennel left, so I think when we give the blanket statement that it is Pees defense maybe somewhat inaccurate. I am sure he has input, but I am guessing the Hoodman calls the defense.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Beat me to it!
My question too…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
B-Man, I could see how you might think this, certainly. Perhaps these sets of interviews might change your mind:
http://www.patriots.com/mediacenter/index.cfm?ac=audionewsdetail&pid=40951&pcid=0
Pees is very well spoken and when you listen to 2 or 3 of these interviews, I think you might come to a different conclusion. It appears as if he is in charge of the D.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Will Nolan tell people that Denver never meant that much to him?
Will seeing him with the Dolphins cut us….like a knife?
Sorry, couldn’t resist. I keep picturing TJ wearing Bret Michaels’ guy-liner.
On a more serious note, how much of the credit for NE D can go to Pees? Is Bellycheek still very hands on with the D, or has Pees been running it as much as would any D-coordinator?
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Nice, NCM! Guy-liner, spandex, and blush. Does it get any better?
To your question, check out these pressers, I think you’ll like how well-spoken and in charge Pees is:
http://www.patriots.com/mediacenter/index.cfm?ac=audionewsdetail&pid=40951&pcid=0
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
TJ,
You, Bena, Emmitt, and I’m sure plenty I am leaving out make MHR a site with no peer! I can’t even fathom how I got through last offseason without having the MHR community to lean on.
Thanks for the info, and for the great work as always!
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Thanks, guys....sorry, I meant solo tackles...I was looking at the solo tackles dataset, my bad
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Thanks, TJ
An excellent post and kudos for defusing some of the initial hand wringing over Nolan’s departure. A constantly blitzing defense is oftentimes figured out sooner rather than later. Otherwise, all defenses would blitz on every down.
Thanks and rec’d too.
" May the bandwagon jumpers bark their shins!"
Thanks, Bear, glad to see you commenting in one of my pieces (peeses?)
Sometimes it is good to do something without so many stats. I get to interact with more members this way.
Thanks for reading!!
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
by TJ Johnson on Jan 20, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
PEESES!!
Well played.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
Nolen Left Porbably because he couldn't get along w McDaniels..like many others
I’m sorry for not wanting to jump into the “LETS BRING SOME MORE PATRIOT GUYS INTO DENVER” bandwagon…If we get PEE Brain, we might as well call ourselves the DENVER PATRIOTS. …could you imagine we got Cassel…geez.
So far since MCD has taken over we took a #2 offence to average and a 29th ranked D to 7th. So NOLEN improves our D and MCD screws up out offence?? ok ..so now we “part ways” with the best thing that happened to us in 09..go figure.
Oh yeah…and he ran Cutler out of town and has BMarsh and Tony Shcefler wanting out to. …to me, it appears our new head coach has a SERIOUS pride issue. I am NOT a McDaniels fan at all. I though we were good about mid season and then he goes and publically calls out Brandon Marshall before the chiefs game (Horrible way to handle it) and now he let Nolan go…and we collapse AGAIN and miss the playoffs.
Man, one could only think how good we could have been if we got a defensive minded headcoach and left Bates and our #2 ranked offence in tact…wow..we’d be like the Jets only with a explosive offense.
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 11:28 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a MDC fan either..
But in all fairness the JEts had a lot of talent on their defence coming into the season.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
by johnnystarr on Jan 20, 2010 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
I must have missed something......
when exactly did we have the #2 offense? Or are we still talking about that worthless yard stat, that somehow made us look good when we really weren’t?
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Jan 20, 2010 11:46 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
that's the one
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
by Drizzt396 on Jan 20, 2010 11:51 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
This is so 200-LATE!...
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
Wow you really like to use
stats to prove you point however its obvious you just hate McDaniels. You only use stats that prove your point but leave out the stats that prove your points wrong We had the 16th ranked offense in scoring and the 2nd ranked in yards. Yards DO NOT MATTER. Last tiem I checked POINTS win games. The defense improved significantly however you have no idea how involved McDaniels was with the Defensive scheme. He is the Head Coach so I am positive he has a saying in everything that happens on Sundays. What Defensive coach do you have in mind, Rex Ryan, because the rest of your defensive coaches like Spags have sucked it up this year. You are still Blind if you think we have the #2 ranked offense. Get out of your delusional world and start looking at all the facts
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 20, 2010 1:33 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
2nd ranked offense in total yards.
16th ranked offense in total POINTS.
So, we went from average to average. You don’t win games by getting more yards than the other team.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 1:43 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Wait, you don't?
So I’ve been piling up yards in Madden for no reason? ;-)
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Of course it does!!!!.......but only in Madden.
You can’t officially say you’ve powned a noob unless you put up 1000 yards on them in an online game.
Real life football follows different rules, though……..
Go figure.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
hahahahahh
“powned a noob”!!! I thought I was the only one who peppered my daily conversation with a variation on that statement!!!
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
haha, I like to vary my diction, at times.
Life is boring if you can only describe it one way.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 2:16 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah the jets did BUT Nolen Managed to put together a pretty decent defense for us. for the first time in years I actually enjoyed watching and had faith in our defense to make some plays and hold an offense (thank you Nolan) I think they fell off at the end because of all the drama and discouragement brought
Actually Nolan RAN a pretty good D for us but he didn't put it together
McD was the one who put it together. Look at all the FA signings McD made on D. It wasn’t Nolan putting the D together it was McD. Of course our defense would be improved after McD replaced Manual, McCree, Bly, & Josh Bell with Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, & Ty Law. Interestingly enough, our pass D was what was really improved from last year (from 26th to 3rd) bur run D was about the same (went from 27th to 26th).
While Nolan deserves credit for the job he did for us, McD deserves just as much credit for the improvements on defense since he completely upgraded the defensive talent on the roster.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
by c_style on Jan 20, 2010 3:06 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
McD 's pride..
I wanna hear McD hold a press conference and for once make a statement like this… I WAS WRONG IN THE WAY I HANDLED THIS SITUATION". …I was wrong i should have communicated better with Jay Cutler (not the player) / I was wrong i shouldn’t have called out Brandon Marshall publically behind his back no less we should have kept it private and I’m learning to be a better communicator and not jump the gun and act on my emotions so quickly like when i told the Chargers we owned them and then my team got there a$$ spanked and it was all downhill from there..lol
You seem pretty confident that it is McDaniels and
not you reacting on emotion based on the limited information available to fans. Interesting that you can be so sure, what exactly is your position within the Broncos organization?
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Sounds like you are in love with
Cutler and you have hated McDaniels ever since he traded your so called “Franchise” QB, who threw 26 picks this year by the way. McDaniels will never be able to win people over like you that only have blind hate for the man
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 20, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
Actually Nolan RAN a pretty good D for us but he didn't put it together
McD was the one who put it together. Look at all the FA signings McD made on D. It wasn’t Nolan putting the D together it was McD. Of course our defense would be improved after McD replaced Manual, McCree, Bly, & Josh Bell with Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, & Ty Law. Interestingly enough, our pass D was what was really improved from last year (from 26th to 3rd) bur run D was about the same (went from 27th to 26th).
While Nolan deserves credit for the job he did for us, McD deserves just as much credit for the improvements on defense since he completely upgraded the defensive talent on the roster.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Yard stat...??
How could you possibly say we didn’t have a good offense in 08. We had trouble finishing drives etc. But i’m sorry if you’re capable of putting up yards like that..then you have SERIOUS POTENTIAL to fix other issues like points etc. PLUS we did it with out a RB for 5 games. Come on man..our offense was very good in 08 and simply average in 09. ..thats my opinion anyway.
Yes your right
my mistake that being #2 in yards, yet, in the lower half of the league in scoring points does mean something. Like a lack of real production. Afterall, it’s much more difficult for a defense to defend the field b/w the 20s but gets easier once in the red zone (smaller field to defend and all). Which ironically is why it’s the best indicator of an offenses true ability.
No we did not have a good offense in 2008. Near league leader in INTs. League leader in drops at the #1 WR position. Not one player w/ double digit TDs. No 1,000 yard rusher (albeit injuries). Second highest TO rate per drive in the NFL, behind on SanFran. No we obviously did not have a good offense in ’08.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Jan 20, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure what there is to disagree about?
Offenses job is to score points and not give the ball away. It’s that black and white. 2008 offense was terrible in both categories. Thus it’s a pretty easy conclusion as to what it really was.
If yards is all it takes to be considered a “good offense” then I’d assume the AFL or CFL would have been/be more popular. Afterall they put up lots of yards and points.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Jan 20, 2010 12:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Good stuff Randall.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
I'm just looking at RESULTS..
ok so there’s nothing wierd about hiring a new defensive coordinator and then having him PRODUCE good RESULTS and not trying to keep him in Denver.
Do you really believe it was nessisary for McD to publically call out Brandon Marshalls toughness and dedication after he made a complete 360 and was playing as hard or harder than any other player.
I don’t have any clue why Peyton Hillis, Schefler and Royal were not bigger contributors on offense this year.
As a matter of fact of not that excited to be a Bronco fan right now..to be totally honest. And no i’m not a pessamist just beiong a realist.
results and time will tell but in my opinion, it seems we have an inexperienced pridefull head coach. I truly hope i’m wrong
Are you only looking at the first half of the season
for results when it comes to Nolan, and only the second half of the season when it comes to McDaniels? Just saying, be fair about this.
Nolan is an overrated coach in my opinion who worked well in the first half of the season but ran out of ideas in the 2nd half and the defense collapsed. All indications are that he would only have spent one more year in Denver max., and then was going to take the Miami job when it came along. He also burned a lot of bridges here in San Fran when he was the Niners. I appreciate what he did in the first half of the season but don’t think he’s all that huge a loss, especially since, as Mike Lombardi pointed out, it seems their styles may not have meshed well together and this was probably good for both parties.
And yes, McDaniels is inexperienced as a head coach. So what? A lot of great coaches were inexperienced when they started because you have to start somewhere. He’s going to be a good coach. he learned a lot this year. He also mentioned being frustrated with the lack of production from Royal and vowed to improve that next year, was a combination of nagging injuries, Royal’s own ineffectiveness and not have a good game plan for involving him.
patience, my friend.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
NY, is this question for me? Or for the guy above?
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
You mean the defense that allowed 259 yards and two touchdowns by Jamaal Charles?
Nolan did have a deceptive defense for the first 6 weeks, but teams started to figure things out after a while and we weren’t near as good. So, maybe a change was needed?
McD shouldn’t have called out Marshall, but at the same time, Marshall wasn’t going to play anyways, so it is a non-issue. Marshall wasn’t going to play on sunday, so McD deactivated him. That’s it.
Peyton Hillis and Scheffler don’t work as much in McD’s system. Sheffler blocks more in McD’s system and DG is a better blocker, so DG got more snaps. Hillis is a FB and Larsen is a better blocker, so Hillis didn’t start much.
Royal needs to learn how to break free of press coverage, but he was productive splitting time with Gaffney. He just didn’t get as many snaps because of depth at WR and an injury late in the season.
I’m not sure why you aren’t excited about being a broncos fan right now. Things are changing, the draft and Free agency are coming up.
“Inexperienced prideful head coach”? After an 8-8 season in his first season, I don’t understand why it was a negative season. He’s learning, sure, but he’s also getting the guys he wants and hasn’t completely put together his roster. Prideful? How so? Because he knows what he wants and gets rid of people that don’t want to be in Denver, anyways?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah but You cant be a dictator
KNowing what you want is one thing but running all your talent out of town because your communication skills SUCK is another.
McD brought in Dawkins and continued to state we are NOt in a rebuilding state, we intend to win NOW. ..obviously we didnt do that after starting 6-0…this yr was worse than the collapse in 08. why was it a negative season…i cant believe you even stated that
I will say that i agree with you that McD CAN be a good coach one day but right now he is learning to be on our team at our expense
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Who said his communication skills suck?
The fact that he got Dawk and Hill and Goodman and Davis etc to come in and let them know that we wanted to win now is good communication, in itself. Obviously, he wants to win now. Everyone does. However, there were players on the team that didn’t care about winning as much as McD does (Scheffler and Brandon, for example).
this yr was worse than the collapse in 08
Well, we didn’t exactly have a 3 game lead with 3 games to play in December, either. Both were historic collapses, no doubt about it. However, there is something wrong with this team that is making it that way. It isn’t the coach, because it has happened to two different coaches in back to back seasons.
I’m not sure if it is a lack of effort later in the season, overconfidence as a season continues or whatever. To say that all of this is McD’s fault is overlooking the other problems. Pointing your finger at one thing isn’t going to fix this team. Sure, McD could handle things differently, but it hasn’t destroyed this team. What has destroyed this team, IMO is a lack of dominance up front on both sides of the ball and the inability to consistently stop the run throughout the entire season.
Those things can’t be fixed in one offseason. So, McD will have chance number 2 to take a swing at it. Let’s see what happens.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
And yes considering Marshall's behavior
and his supposed comment about “being ready for the season to be over”, no I have no problem “calling him out”/benching him. Marshall is a continued problem, whom severly overestimates his value, as evidenced by Gaffeny’s ability to produce at the same position in the KC game. He either needs to learn his place in the world and keep his head outta the clouds or he can leave. I wanted him gone 2 years ago and he’s done NOTHING to change that position.
I love the Hillis questions. Guys fumbles most of his touches early in the season and people just don’t understand why the coaches won’t trust him w/ the ball down the stretch. Just so hard to figure out. That and Larsen’s a better blocker kinda hurts him.
Scheffler’s been one of only two things in his career, unhealthy or inconsistent. Yes he can produce as a reciever, too bad that’s only half his job and McDaniels obviously puts emphasis on that other half, Graham playing so much, drafting a blocking TE.
Finally, Royal dealt with a number of injuries throughout the season thus hindering his development. Then again we also didn’t pass nearly as much as last season, so his opportunities were decreased. And he still showed flashes of what he brings to the table.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Jan 20, 2010 12:14 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Randall, good points. Nice post.
I am doing a play by play expected points analysis on the entire season. Right now I’m through 4 games. It’s quite interesting to see that Graham’s points values per pass play are twice as high as Schefflers. And Gaffney’s are as high as Marshall’s. I plan on showing all of this to you all when I get done, but I thought your points were excellent and wanted to share this with you right now. Makes me want to get back to work!
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
I’m not even going to begin to explain why Marshall is a more talented and bigger weapon than Gaffeny. Come on man
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
Hey, NY, I'm not saying that Marshall isn't more "talented." I'm saying that I'm doing an analysis of the expected points value
of each play and through 4 games the numbers are showing similar points values.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
ok thats cool..and i think Gaffney is a good reciever and i’m glad we have him, but i don’t think he is a #1 wideout
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
Coo...lookin' forward to your results,
but if your results hold true, color me one person not surprised.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Gafney is a JOKE compaired to Marshall
Marshall didn;t do anything wrong after his issues in the beginning of the year at which point he proved to man up about it and appologize stating that it was inappropriate and unprofessional…well McD’s press conference about Marshall’s injury was inappropriate and unprofessional!! ..case closed. That is not the way to handle the situation.
Moreno had fumble issues as well..he played
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
Hate is a strong word...i didn't say that
IMO, we already made some poor choices but..I would try and salvage all the good we have and work on the weak spots. It’s kinda hard becuase our leader (head coach) inmo has a character flaw that would need to be fixed first. Don’t get me wrong..i do like a lot of things about McDaniels
Obviously now it starts with finding a good 3-4 D coordinator. I would have liked a Romeo Crenell move (even though hes a former Pat :) ..just stinks that we’ve been searching for consistency now for 5 yrs in this position. It’s nice to be able to build off of a previous yr.
Offensively we really need to improve on the O line in run blocking. Our running game sucked this yr and our short yardage was horible. we also need to keep B Marsh and develop a team/family mentality. Enough with the division. Oh yeah and more explosive play calling on offense as well…more deep balls!!
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
What contradiction!
we also need to keep B Marsh and develop a team/family mentality
Why can’t you see that BMarsh on this team would and did hurt the team/family menatlity? In the infamous words of Mike Singletary, “If a player is not fully commited to the team you cannott play with ‘em, cannot win with ’em, cannot coach with ’em. Can’t do it.” BMarsh is not fully committed to our team. Nothing made that more clear than when he refused to play in the biggest game of the year with the playoffs on the line. Even when all the medical information said he was good to go. As soon as he got his 100 catches all of the sudden it was too cold to practice. Then it was his hammy and he told the coach he woun’t play.
Cannot win with em.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Lol, I'm not even going to start on Marshall.
I’ve a post from last year if your interested in him. Absolutely hilarious the support he gets.
Let’s see Moreno had 247 carries and two fumbles, while Peyton had 2 or 3 in his 6 opportunities as a KR……..mmmm, yes I can see the similarities.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Marshall had plenty of issues, i’m not denying that..but he has seemed to come around in the way he handles things and you cant deny his talent
Moreno fumbled a couple of times in the beginning as well but his extented amount of caries covered that up. Look i love Moreno…but i also think Hillis can be a huge weapon who has ridiculous hands for his position.
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
I agree about Hillis......
which is why we’ll get great value when we trade him to Shanny in Washington. He just didn’t fit last year. If we can trade him and get someone who can make an impact on our team, then it will benefit both the Redskins and the Broncos. I’d much rather have an impact player than a guy who only plays when Spencer Larsen is out.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
You only see the way Marshall acts
when he is in the public eye and has his agent coaching him on what to say. You have no Idea how is he behind closed doors. The fact that Marshall said he was not going to play regardless of if he was active or inactive shows me McDaniels did the right thing. Marshall was more interested in a little injury then being on the field helping his team win. Marshall is a great talent but he has some major character flaws.
Moreno had Fumbling issues but he is also way more talented the Hillis will ever be. Moreno gave us a better chance to win so he was on the field and Hillis was not
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 20, 2010 1:49 PM MST up reply actions
HILLIS
fumbled once on a kickoff return, a lot less than some others on the team.
source: http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/careerstats?id=HIL734134
A lot less?
You might want to reconsider that. Orton & Moreno had the most at 4 a piece. While 4 is more than 1 the info becomes much clearer when you judge how often they fumbled.
Moreno had 4 fumbles in 275 touches. 4 / 275 = 1.45%. So Moreno fumbled the ball away 1.45% of the time he touched the ball. The others:
Buck – 3 fumbles in 159 touches = 1.88%
Orton – 4 fumbles in 565 touches = 0.70%
Jordan – 0 fumbles in 26 touches = 0%
Hillis – 1 fumble in 23 touches = 4.34%
While Hillis may have fumbled less than Moreno, Buck & Orton overall, Moreno Buck & Orton fumbled a lot less often than Hillis when you take into account the # of touches.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
That's why it's a pointless argument
Hillis’s sample size is too small to prove anything.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
You are not being a realist
you are not looking at the facts. You are only using stats that make you feel like you are right. You are not looking at the whole picture. You are just angry at the HC and think the players should be able to act however they want with no consequences. News Flash is Nolan did not want to be in Denver any longer. Look at all the reports coming out now and you will see this. I do not know why you would want any coach that does not want to be a part of the Broncos.
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 20, 2010 1:40 PM MST up reply actions
TIME WILL TELL
All this debate makes for good conversation but the truth is only time will tell. RESULTS are the final measure.
If Cutler goes on to win a superbowl with Chicago and become a Great QB …if Nolen goes on to improve Miami’s D and stays with them for a while …if B Marsh gets traded and goes to another team to have great success …if other offensive players move on to other teams with success …THEN the RESULTS will speak against the decisions and actions of Josh McDaniels
…If Cutler continues to have eratic play and never amount to a great QB .. If Miami has an average D …If Marshall goes to another team and becomes the next TO …if other offensive players fade into ablivian …WELL THEN THE RESULTS MAKE A CASE FOR JOSH’s DECISIONS
We’ll see what next season holds for the Denver Broncos. I’ll hope for the best but I’m prepared for the worste
Can't say I agree with that at all.
Waaaayyy too many variables in all the “ifs” you just described to so narrowly classify as either a success or failure.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
I'm not so sure any of that matters.
I’d say that if the Broncos have successful seasons over the next few years and make the playoffs and do all that good stuff, then the results make a case for josh’s decisions.
I could care less what Cutler does in Chicago or what Nolan does in Miami or what Marshall does in whatever city he ends up with (unless it is Denver).
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
So then how do you measure a decision then??
if nothing matters than how do you measure the accountability of a decision??
Obviously if Denver goes on to win a superbowl in the next few yrs then the results wil speak for themselves. ..but don’t say none of the other stuff matters. It is relevant to judge a decision. How do you judge your decisions??
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
I told you. I judge my decision on progress.
If we win 10 games next year, I’d say that we are going in the right direction. If we win 4 games next season, I’d say we aren’t going in the right direction. Cutler, Nolan, and Marshall (if he leaves Denver), won’t impact our season next year, unless, of course, we played against them and they beat us.
Maybe the players or coaches are a better fit in their new situation? Maybe they would have done the same thing in Denver if they had stayed? There is no way of knowing that. In a vacuum, then yes, we could compare their successes with our success. However, the NFL doesn’t work that way. There are different systems, schedules, injuries, penalties, executions on gameday and even different bounces of the ball (Stokely’s catch) that change the outcome of games and the fates of players and coaches and franchises.
So, I would measure the accountability of a decision based on wins for the Broncos and only the broncos. If the Broncos win 4 games and the Dolphins, Bears, and whoever has Marshall win 2 4 and 3 games, respectively, It would still be tough for me to say that we are improving, even though Cutler/Nolan/Marshall had worse seasons than the Broncos did.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
I agree partially with that
First off based on what your saying we didn’t make any progress this yr because we were 8-8 last season too. So according to your judging McD made no progress in 1 yr.
Granted progress measured in results is a HUGE factor in evaluating how McD is doing. ..but i still say you have to factor in the RESULTS from the decisions he’s made as well. yes there are many factors to consider like the draft picks we got for the cutler trade…i’m not saying that was a bad gig. I’m just saying you have to look at it.
If in 4 yrs Kyle Ortin is playing consitant good football and Moreno, Ayers & Smith etc are doing well than that was a good move BUT if our draft picks turn out to be flops and Ortin had one decnt yr and ends up being an average QB at best than it would have to be judged a poor decision. ..thats all im saying
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 1:16 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not so sure that all of them will be around in four years, but that's just nitpicky on my part.
Here’s the thing, McDaniels came in with a defense that was, statistically, one of the worst of all time. McDaniels came into Denver with a QB who just went to the probowl despite never having better than a 9-7 record in any of his seasons as Broncos QB. So, he blew all of that up and started over. Addition by subtraction.
Going from an 8-8 team in 2008 to an 8-8 team is an improvement, considering the fact that he brought in a new offensive system, a new QB, new RBs, a new blocking scheme, new defensive coordinator, new defensive scheme (4-3 to 3-4) and basically an entirely new defensive personnel, including changing Doom from a DE to an OLB.
We did all that in one offseason and didn’t regress in the win column. Sure, you’d like to see more “results” from the decisions that he made, but many in the MSM were calling for a 2, 3 or 4 win season. We exceeded those expectations within the first 2, 3 or 4 weeks of the season. I’d call that progression. In another year, with more exposure and understanding of the system, I expect more wins. We’ll have new players that have McD’s stamp of approval on them and they’ll be expected to produce.
The guys we got rid of, they just didn’t fit in Denver. That’s the bottomline. We don’t have to compare their careers and say “They could have done that in Denver”. That’s not taking in all the variables that I mentioned earlier. We just need to consider how the organization does in the next few years. If we go from an 8-8 season this year to a 1-15 season next year, then yes, I will say McD needs to go, as well. So far, though, I like what I’ve seen.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 1:42 PM MST up reply actions
Addition by subtraction
is exactly right. The defense got better by addition and the offense got worse by subtraction
haha, well played. Kudos for creativity.
I was using addition by subtraction to mean that, in the long run, we’ll be better without the likes of Jay Cutler and Hamza Abdullah and Marlon McCree and Calvin Lowry and Nate Webster and so on…….
It’s much better to start out with a level headed QB who controls the ball than a big headed QB who wings it around the yard to God knows who….
It’s also much better to have a safety that can tackle and cover than ones that……. can’t.
It’s also much better to have a LB that makes a tackle for no gain and quietly goes back to the defensive huddle than a LB that makes a tackle that allowed a first down and then gets up and celebrates like he won the Super Bowl.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 2:36 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with the first statement but not the 2nd. You can never take out accountability. Just because he’s a head coach doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be held accountable for his actions and decisions.
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
I never said he shouldn't be held accountable in that comment.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 20, 2010 1:07 PM MST up reply actions
ablivian - for when the moment is right
Have fun in the bomb-shelter.
Its just a game.
You hate McD. You love Cutler. We get it.
McD is the Head Football Coach of the Denver Broncos. Jay Cutler is NOT the QB of the Denver Broncos.
Get over it.
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
bomb shelter??
we’re just having a debate man..u get over it.
by NY_BroncoMan on Jan 20, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
Your style of debate is "I'm right, you're wrong" No need to get over it, I just choose to ignore you.
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
"Every cowboy sings a sad, sad song..."
did i miss it? how could that line go uncited? i must’ve missed it… well, anyway:

Ox, would you believe I had it in the first draft, but I had this:
Every Bronco sings a sad, sad song…..
But it just didn’t feel right! I like that you brought it up instead, especially in that context.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
i know. it didn't really fit your article at all.
but i saw a chance to use the crying tony romo shot and took the gamble. :-)
You should have used an LT crying one or a Rivers pout......
Those would have been fitting.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by kentuckybronco on Jan 21, 2010 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
Nice post, TJ.
I liked your analysis of the run defense on the right side of our D with Peterson, DOOM and DJ. I watched several times the KC TD run in the 2nd half where they had the OC,LG, LT and FB running in front of the RB. They steamrolled the D on that one.
As someone said, we may see some changes that leave us steamed. But they are changes the McD feels he has to make. What happpens if DOOM is traded for a high draft choice so we can get a run stuffing OLB? Could be interesting. My comment on DJ echoes someone else’s – put him in one position and let him grow into it. He is an excellent talent who needs discipline and longevity in one position.
Someone else mentioned in another post about Pees and Martindale: Pees as a consultant and assistant coach involved in the defense while Martindale is the DC. This is a consideration of Pees health issues.
Thanks, Bk
I agree that DJ has some talent and as Jeremy Bolander brought up, the dude is playing 100% of the plays. Your point about him finding a position is well-taken and well-put.
Peterson is the weakest link..by a wide margin, although I would never say I disliked him as a player. I remember the plays of which you speak.
Regarding Doom, you might recall a post of mine on the value of a sack and his record…this was many weeks ago. I said I didn’t think Denver would resign him. I’m still not sure they will, although I wish they would. There is a lot of talk about trading Marshall, but we could be in for a shock and see Doom actually be the one to go. They didn’t draft Robert Ayers to sit on the bench, now did they?
At this point nothing would surprise me. Considering what this franchise has seen in the last 18 months (and even in the last two days), I think we are still in for a ton of surprises.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher

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