Denver Broncos Mock Draft Part 13: Tebow Destined for Denver?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 27, 2010 11:05 PM MST
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PrintBefore I continue, I beg everyone to continue on in the post before simply commenting on my headline. I feel everyone has the right to their own opinion, and I acknowledge that a majority of NFL observers are not so hot on Tim Tebow, but I feel the Broncos are the perfect fit for him, have said so numerous times, and will continue to say so until a piece of Broncos brass comes forth and declares that I am wrong.
Now you might all be wondering, "Then why have you not included him in all of your other mocks, Sayre?"
In all honesty, it may have been because I felt due to some of the comments received on this site that my dream of Denver drafting Tebow would never become reality, simply because a majority of you all didn't think so.
I would like to personally apologize to all of you readers right now, because in essence, I questioned my own integrity. I didn't trust in my own judgements, and to be blunt, I didn't "stick to my guns". For that, I am deeply sorry.
Now, on to the fun stuff.
This is already my 13th mock draft, and this one will have a similar feel to the previous ones. I still think ultimately, the Broncos will try and trade Brandon Marshall, but in my opinion if they cannot get adequate value in return, they should hold on to him if not for another year, for the long term.
With that, here is a mock draft with a little bit of a different twist than the previous ones.
Free Agency Signings
1. Brandon Marshall, Wide Receiver (RFA)
Gasp! The Broncos bringing Marshall back doesn't seem likely to a lot of people, but it's certainly a possibility. This may be a silly analogy, but Brandon Marshall is like a child's first teddy bear. When the teddy bear is brand new, and the child is young, they are tailor made for each other. They grow with each other, and the bear becomes a significant part of the child's life, silly as it may be.
As the years pass, we all know what happens to the bear. It becomes tattered, tainted, and in all honesty, much uglier than it once was. Only the child remembers the true beauty of the teddy bear, and no matter what happens, the kid is stuck with the bear unless he wants to throw it away.
To the child, the bear is worth so much, it's almost unbelievable to even consider placing a price tag on it. It's value to the child is worlds above what it is to any other kid, who probably have teddy bears of their own.
Brandon Marshall is like the Broncos' teddy bear. He was great when we first got him, but he has been tarnished and tainted in his time in the NFL. But darn it, he gets the job done, and to us fans and the team, his value is much higher than any other team might view him.
Silly analogy? Maybe, but it makes some kind of sense, and the point of the whole speech here is that it may be in Denver's best interests to keep Marshall. While his value right now is a first and third round pick, I don't think the Broncos are going to get as productive a player with either of those picks, though it would be nice to have all the draft choices.
In this instance, I think our "teddy bear" gets re-signed. I think we tender him the highest possible value, and no offer made to him will be high enough (not likely) that we will not match.
Denver signs Marshall to a contract filled with stipulations and restrictions, and the amount of guaranteed money he receives depends on his off-field actions. If we can figure some kind of contract like that out, I would jump at the opportunity.
2. Kyle Orton, Quarterback (RFA)
I think Orton played very well (for the most part) in his first year as a Bronco, but I'm not sold he is the long-term answer at the position. I think if he can continue to grow in this offense, we have a very capable backup on our hands. A leader you want on your team, and one who can come in and win games if need be.
I still am not sold Orton is a "franchise" quarterback, though I love his mistake free approach to the game. It's not that I doubt him as a player, it's just that with John Elway/Jake Plummer/Jay Cutler, I was comfortable going into the fourth quarter with the other team having a lead. With Orton, I'm not exactly giddy. I think most of Orton's games are won and lost in the first three quarters.
Denver signs Orton to a three year deal worth 10 million dollars, and Orton is a happy man.
3. Elvis Dumervil, Outside Linebacker (RFA)
There has been talk that Dumervil is destined for Miami to be closer to his family, to play in his home town, and to reunite with defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.
I don't see it.
Dumervil is the Broncos' best young defensive player. I think they will sign him to whatever anyone offers him. If I am the general manager, especially in an uncapped year, I would be ecstatic to bring back such a high character player who brings a pass rush to a defense that otherwise lacks one.
4. Chris Kuper, Guard (RFA)
Kuper has been a very solid player for this team since he stepped into a starting role. I think he struggled just as much as any other lineman in the new system this year, but he is a good player, and he will adapt. I think he is an essential part to rebuilding this offensive line.
5. Matt Prater, Kicker (RFA)
Prater had, in my opinion, a Pro Bowl caliber season in 2010. Many were skeptical of what he would be able to accomplish because of his failed second half of 2008. It appears as though his new conditioning regiment and preparation after a full season he is ready for a long kicking career in the NFL.
6. Chester Taylor, Running Back (Minnesota)
Taylor is extremely versatile, and his value to the Vikings would indicate to me they will be willing to overpay him to keep him in Minneapolis, but I believe McDaniels will do some hard recruiting on this guy if he hits the open market. He is an older version of Knowshon Moreno, but I believe he runs harder, and Moreno would benefit greatly from his teaching.
7. Ryan Pickett, Defensive Tackle (Green Bay)
You all know my views on Pickett. I think he played extremely well in his first year as a true nose tackle in the 3-4 defense, and he may be a hot commodity on the open market. I think Denver needs a true nose tackle, and Pickett is better than any player they will find in the draft for 2010.
8. Jarvis Green, Defensive End (New England)
Patriot fans seem to think Green is a starting caliber end in any other 3-4 defense, and I tend to agree. I think his connection with McDaniels and the Patriots will be a huge factor in his signing with the Broncos, if indeed he chooses to.
Trades
1. Tony Scheffler to Cincinnati Bengals for 3rd round pick (84th overall)
2. Peyton Hillis to Washington Redskins for 5th round pick
Draft
1. First Round, 10th overall: Tim Tebow, Quarterback, Florida
6'3" 240
We can all think of so many reasons we don't want the Broncos to draft Tim Tebow, but in all honesty, he's going to be the best player available when we pick in all likelihood.
Rolando McClain? He'll be gone. Joe Haden? Gone. Many see this as a reach of a pick, but not me. With Tebow's intangibles and arm strength, if the only thing holding him back is his poor throwing motion then I'd take the guy number one overall, and it wouldn't even be a question.
Players like Tebow are extremely rare. It's not often you see a player so devoted to his teammates, so devoted to learning anything and everything, and a player who is willing to do whatever it takes to help his team win.
He is a winner. All the guy ever did in college was win. Say what you want about him being a "system" quarterback, but he mastered that particular system better than any quarterback before him, and he is arguably the greatest college quarterback of all time because of it.
Tebow is an All-American athlete. He is an All-American student. His work ethic and intangibles are off the charts. His passion for the game is almost unmatched. His arm strength is elite.
Seems like all he needs is the right coaching, and with the McDaniels brothers, he has it. If I'm the one calling the shots, I pull the trigger on Tebow right away. It looks to me like our coin flip with Jacksonville is going to hold a lot more weight than all of us think.
2. Second Round, 45th overall: Maurkice Pouncey, Center, Florida
6'5" 320
What better way to welcome Tebow to the Broncos than to bring in the guy who has snapped him the ball the last three seasons.
Quick question--if a quarterback can be maligned for not taking a lot of snaps from under center, can a center be criticized for the same thing?
Pouncey is an elite player at this position, and probably will be the best center prospect in the next couple of drafts. He could go higher than this, but in such a deep draft I just don't see it.
Great value here, and an immediate starter.
3. Third Round, 80th overall: Sean Lee, Inside Linebacker, Penn State
6'2" 240
Lee was a team leader for the Nittany Lions, and in addition to that he was an excellent player. He seems like he'd be an ideal fit in the 3-4 defense, and though I'm not sold that he would start for us right away, I think he can be a starter either next year or two years from now after learning behind Andra Davis. Nobody mentions him as a possibility often because many think we will either go with a LB early or later.
4. Third Round, 84th overall: Kareem Jackson, Cornerback, Alabama
5'11" 192
As many of you know, I really like Jackson's teammate from Alabama, Javier Arenas. However, I think Jackson is better suited for the professional game as a potential starter. He has good size, good speed, and he comes from a similar defense to that which we run. I think he would benefit greatly from learning from the best in the NFL, Champ Bailey.
5. Fourth Round: Eric Decker, Wide Receiver, Minnesota
6'3" 215
I think Decker's stock is really dropping right now, and I'm not exactly sure why. Some sites rate him as a mid-late second round pick, and others rate him as a late third-mid fourth round pick. I think if Denver could get him in the fourth round, they would be ecstatic. His injury is minor cause for concern, but he can be an impact player at the next level with his size and jump ball ability.
6. Fifth Round (from Washington): Brandon Carter, Guard, Texas Tech
6'6" 340
Carter's stock is on the rize because of his brute strength and leadership. He might seem a little insane with his face paint, but make no mistake this guy is a scary good offensive lineman. He is probably going to be slow, but his punch at the line of scrimmage is quick and effective, and he finishes on every play.
7. Sixth Round: Linval Joseph, Defensive Lineman, East Carolina
6'6" 322
What I like about Joseph is his versatility. I think he is athletic enough to play either end or nose in the 3-4, and the Broncos should give him a look at both. Good value pick here.
8. Seventh Round: Joe Webb, Wide Receiver, UAB
6'4" 225
Played WR his first year at UAB, and has played QB ever since. I think he showed great work ethic so far at the combine, and with more coaching he could develop into a fine player at the next level. His excellent athleticism and ability after the catch attract me.
Depth Chart
QB: Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow, Tom Brandstater
RB: Knowshon Moreno, Chester Taylor, Correll Buckhalter, Spencer Larsen
WR: Brandon Marshall, Jabar Gaffney
WR: Eric Decker, Kenny McKinley
WR: Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Joe Webb
TE: Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Marquez Branson
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus
LG: Seth Olsen, Brandon Carter
C: Maurkice Pouncey, Dustin Fry
RG: Chris Kuper, Brandon Carter
RT: Ryan Harris, Tyler Polumbus
DE: Jarvis Green, Marcus Thomas
DT: Ryan Pickett, Ron Fields, Chris Baker
DE: Ryan McBean, Linval Joseph
OLB: Elvis Dumervil, Mario Haggan
ILB: D.J. Williams, Wesley Woodyard
ILB: Andra Davis, Sean Lee
OLB: Robert Ayers, Darrell Reid
CB: Champ Bailey, Alphonso Smith
CB: Andre Goodman, Kareem Jackson
S: Brian Dawkins, Darcel McBath
S: Renaldo Hill, David Bruton, Josh Barrett
K: Matt Prater
KR: Joe Webb, Eddie Royal
PR: Eddie Royal
LS: Lonie Paxton
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Comments
haha, I don't think I could cash in my broncos chips fast enough
if they picked tebow w/ their #1 pick
I like it.
LIke I’ve mentioned in previous posts, Tebow’s got mechanics problems, but his mind and focus is light years ahead of anyone else in the draft, relative to their position. He’s got all the things you can’t teach. If Denver takes him, I’m fine with it. It certainly would shut half of Broncos Country up about an elite quarterback. God knows that’s half the battle.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
Great point Joe
I think he has all of the tools to be an elite QB at this level, and I would be so excited to add him. Like you said, his mind is well ahead of any other player in this draft. He is an intriguing prospect to me.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:46 AM MST up reply actions
Belive it or not...
I am actually with you on Tebow, BUT not until the 2nd round. I love the guy and I agree with a few others here at MHR that he could be a transitional player in the NFL for the Broncos. The NEW offense would have to be tailored to his specific strengths, but with the emphasis on getting bigger and stronger, we may be on our way.
I would use the first pick on McClain, and if he is gone, I would trade back for Iupati, then somehow trade back into the second for Pouncey and Tebow.
I read something interesting today
First of all, I don’t think McClain will be there, and even if he is, which side of the ball do you think Josh would take an eventual leader? My money is on the QB position.
I read today that the Faders LOVE Iupati, and we all know how much they love to stretch their arms come draft day. What if he’s gone by the time we pick too? Raiders take Iupati at 8, McClain goes earlier as well. We could trade down, but I don’t see Tebow getting past the Jaguars, in all honesty.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:50 AM MST up reply actions
What about Micah Johnson?
@Sayre
What about Micah Johnson ILB from Kentucky? I really think we should get this guy in either the 3rd or 4th round. I think he is going to be VERY productive pro and eventual succesor to either Andre or DJ. Thoughts?
Hey, I like him
I suggested him a month or so ago, and I also suggested him as a fourth rounder recently. I like his pro potential, but Sean Lee seems like more of a “sure thing” to me. I got to watch him play more too, so that might have a bit to do with it.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
Almost forgot....
I like the Tebow idea, however I agree with topnation that we should not take him unless he’s there @ 45 in round 2. Just sayin’…..
In my opinion, then you miss out on him
And it’s not like we didn’t get good value with the later picks. I think it’s important to focus on the offensive line in the second round and beyond, because there will be great value there.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
Dog
Look, I mean, look, I mean, I mean, I mean. If I ever have a daughter, I want her to marry Tim Tebow. The guy is a great person, a great athlete and he may end up being a solid NFL player. From all I’ve seen from him, however, I don’t believe he is an NFL quarterback. From all accounts, he is struggling terribly under center at the senior bowl and I disagree with your assertion that he has an extremely strong arm. He embodies everything JMcD likes in a football player. I would be proud to have him as a bronco. I could be completely wrong.
All of that said, if we take him at 10, I’ll cry, a lot.
by GJcontingent-rAd on Jan 27, 2010 11:46 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
ill rec that!
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
But he does have a strong arm
You didn’t actually watch the senior bowl practice? The dude has a cannon, and he was accurate with his throws. Like I said, if his mechanics are all thats stopping us, I’d take him with the first pick in the draft. His intangibles are off the charts. I don’t want him cause he’s a nice guy, I want him because he’s a player that a team can rally around.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
Tebow
I respect him for coming out and competing this week. So far, the long windup, hitch in the delivery, poor footwork and mechanics and trouble with the long ball have been reported on 6 sites that I skimmed today. I wish him well, but also prefer to look at what he is doing, rather than speculating on how much someone may do or don’t ‘like’ him. I hope for his sake that he smooths out over the week – there’s lots of time.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Didn't Rivers have mechanics problems coming into the draft?
And he turned out alright. Depending on what Tebow’s are, are mechanics that big of an issue?
"I'm a Michigan Wolverine, which means I'm the only one who watches 'Rudy' hoping he pulls a hamstring or pops a quad." - Rich Eisen
Still does...
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 28, 2010 7:00 AM MST up reply actions
The same was said..
About FAvre when he came out..
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Yup...His tendency to throw back across his body while on the run really held him back...LOL
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 28, 2010 7:17 AM MST up reply actions
You're kiddin' me
He does it better than anybody in the nfl………. I’m lookin’ at you Jay. Get your game up. lol
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 8:14 AM MST up reply actions
ahahahah
Burned! At least this was true in the championship game.
Anyways (this isn’t in reply to anyone in particular), it’s kind of ridiculous to say “well QB X had bad mechanics…” since there are also a whole slew of promising QB Y’s who had mechanical flaws who flamed out.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Jan 28, 2010 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
10-4
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 28, 2010 6:35 PM MST up reply actions
In watching replays of Favre
He still puts the ball down by his thigh pad.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
Most college QBs do
I wouldn’t count out a college QB purely on mechanics unless they are simply horrific or unless the QB doesn’t have a good work ethic (or similar problems) and Tebow does have a good work ethic. However – there are problems and then there are bigger ones. Tebow will be a highly polarizing figure until and even after the draft. Here area some reasons why:
The mechanical concerns with Tebow are fivefold:
1. That he has sloppy footwork in the pocket,
2. That he tends to drop his hands to his waist before passing
3. That he has a long windup that will not play well in the NFL since it requires a lot of room just to release the ball
4. He also has an odd ‘hitch’ in the throwing motion that impacts the release as well.
5. Despite what’s been published by some members, he has had trouble on the deeper balls, and that really did show early this week. He was much more accurate on shorter throws. I don’t have strong feelings about him one way or the other (which is why I don’t particularly want the Broncos to take him – I’d prefer someone that I did have strong positive feelings for), but my ability to read is just fine. Beyond a few folks who strongly like him, there were many reports during the last season and lots more so far this week that Tebow is having trouble on long throws. Don’t shoot the messenger on this on, OK? Denial does change the reports.
You asked: are mechanics that big of an issue? The short answer is , yes, they’re essential. Many college QBs can develop better mechanics, but not all of them – including a lot of very high draft choices – ever make the leap.
The remaining issue is that he was not taught in more of a a pro style offense. Even many of his supporters – and there are lots – agree that the offense he lands in will have to be tailored around his skillset to a greater degree than is common in the NFL. Comparisons to Steve Young have also been made, but those are, in my opinion, pushing the envelope of reasons. Why?
Bruce Feldman wrote:
I do think Tebow can become a starting quarterback in the NFL over time — if a staff is willing to adjust its system to accommodate what he does well and what he cannot do. Of course, that is a huge if. Scouts will be quick to tell you that Tebow’s not as athletic as Young and that his release isn’t anywhere near as quick.
I’d also like to give the reasons (or some of them) that Tebow is so interesting to those who support him as a pro QB: What people tend to like about him falls into two categories.
First, he’s a great college QB – one of the best ever. Many fans fall in love with college QBs and claim that there is no reason that their problems can’t be smoothed out in the pros. History doesn’t support that, however, so it’s a tough one. That was said about a lot of guys who never had a winning season in the NFL.
The second is that he has great ‘intangibles’ and that’s also true. ‘Upside’ is a great thing to argue since neither party can be declared ‘right’ for years to come. He’s charismatic, determined, appears mature and and hard-working.
By the way, l don’t care about an athlete’s religion one way or the other, but that’s a third reason for his popularity with some people – he does wear his religion on his sleeve, and that’s good, bad or immaterial based purely on your point of view. If something gets him to work harder and to be less chance of a locker room problem, I’m all for it, regardless of the spiritual or personal path involved.
I hope this helps a bit. Tebow is going to be polarizing for all of the above reasons and for many that time didn’t let me discuss. On the Monday following draft day, we’ll be talking about them all over again. Look at the air time that Pete Carroll’s comment that Mark Sanchez should stay in school a year longer go. I happen to thing that he was right, but you can’t argue that Sanchez didn’t do well in getting his team to the playoffs, either.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Jan 28, 2010 1:42 PM MST up reply actions 8 recs
Rec'd because of an excellent, thorough answer.
Overachiever!
Just kidding, this was VERY helpful. Thank you.
"I'm a Michigan Wolverine, which means I'm the only one who watches 'Rudy' hoping he pulls a hamstring or pops a quad." - Rich Eisen
wow
one of the better comments I’ve seen on MHR. This has enough information here to be a full on article.
Thanks Emmett!
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Jan 28, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, he's struggled mechanically
But his throws have been strong and on the money. He can make every NFL throw, and we have great teachers to help him here in Denver. I honestly believe with the correct coaching he will be a great quarterback at this level. I mean, you can put as much stock as you want to in this one week of practices, but I’ll take the four years of production against it any day.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
K I read it all... Great detail and well thought out as always, but I just can't get past Tebow
I don’t like drafting Tebow. I don’t like drafting another rookie to sit on the bench. I’m not even sure we can get out of Simms’ hefty contract. And mostly, I’m not looking forward to every arm chair QB from Denver to London screaming after every loss or bad performance that they want the Tebow under center.
BPA at 10/11, when the position (QB) is not a need or even necessarily desired position really just kills me. And I’m not really sure why everyone thinks McClain is goin to be so long gone by #10. Not many teams ahead of us have a need for him. And they are not going to draft McClain as BPA that early if they already have a starter at MLB and a young backup, well not any more than we’re going to spend the #10 to fill our roster with another QB that virtually nobody thinks is going to be BPA even at the #25 pick.
On another note, I would be very concerned go in into the season with two guys at LG who’ve never started a game, and only one backup at OT, especially considering Harris’ uncertain status.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Jan 28, 2010 12:11 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I see your points on Tebow, and I respect it
I just have to say I disagree. I really want the guy on my team.
As to McClain, I could see any number of teams drafting him with their first pick. Kansas City is the earliest, and from what I’ve read over at Arrowhead Pride, they’re all clamoring for him as much as we are.
As to LG, we went into 2008 with only two proven starters on the offensive line, and ended up with the best sack total in the NFL. I’m not so worried, but i understand why you would be.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
Sayre
Didn’t you take Dez Bryant in one of your previous mocks? Why not stick with that? Whether Marshall stays or goes, Bryant would be an excellent pick, assuming McClain and Haden are both gone. You’d take Tebow over Bryant?
"I'm a Michigan Wolverine, which means I'm the only one who watches 'Rudy' hoping he pulls a hamstring or pops a quad." - Rich Eisen
Like many mock drafters
I have changed my mind, especially if we keep Brandon Marshall. I think Bryant would be a nice add for us even if we do have Marshall, but I see some more value in the later rounds that we could get at the receiver position.
I honestly would take Tebow over Bryant, yes.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
What worries me?
Say what you want about him being a “system” quarterback, but he mastered that particular system better than any quarterback before him, and he is arguably the greatest college quarterback of all time because of it.
Arguably the greatest college QB of all time is what worries me the most.
My imagination keeps conjuring up images of Matt Leinart, JaMarcus Russell, Charlie Ward, Tommie Frazier, Chris Leak (Florida), Danny Wuerffel (Florida), Andre Ware, Dan McGwire, David Klinger, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, Cade McNown, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, etc. and dare I mention Tommy Maddox?
Do I disagree with you on Tebow? I really don’t know.
Do I agree with you on Tebow? I really don’t know.
Something I do know is that nobody really knows how good Tebow will be in the NFL.
My main point is that I feel some caution is warranted when we start using best college QB of all time in deciding who will succeed in the pros and who will not.
I want to go out on a limb and suggest that where you rank as a college athlete does not correlate to success at the next level.
If Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, etc. would have started at the Florida’s, Texas’, or Oklahoma’s of college football is there not a chance they would have been considered one of the best college quarterbacks of all time as a result of the program and system?
I mean, how many of the best college quarterbacks of all time came from the Delaware’s, Miami’s of Ohio, NC State’s, California’s, or Purdue’s of college football?
If we do go after Tebow let it be because of the intangibles or arm strength that was mentioned. Please don’t let it be because he is arguably the best college quarterback of all time.
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Jan 28, 2010 12:34 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I just got a call...
Ty Detmer was very upset he didn’t make it on the above list. 100% agree with you.
by RalphW on Jan 28, 2010 4:52 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I think
The best QB of all time came from STanford. Not exactly known as a powerhouse. :)
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 28, 2010 7:03 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
He's part of the etc. group... lol... good call!
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Jan 29, 2010 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
I never said it would translate
My opinion that he is among the best of all time simply cemented the fact that he mastered that offense at Florida better than any player before him, as is evidenced by his career statistics.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
Citing career college statistics
is a slippery slope as well. Not saying that he is a good or bad player, it just think it’s more about value and need. Cetainly worth a look, but why spend more than you way need to?
I dont like the idea of tebow early
Not that i dont think hell do well, i do. but hes too risky so early. I do like the idea of drafting need so high, I’d prefer QB or DL early at the 10 spot, and if none could be had then id want to trade down for OL, DL, or QB. I dont believe in reaching, but i feel we should def go need here
Tebow anywhere you can get him.
We are talking about what, value in a draft or our future seasons? Tebow is the most coachable QB in memory. He is very dedicated to his studies, and delivers on promises and work ethic. many of the other QB’s mentioned were no where near his mental caliber.
Payton Mannings team mates says that his preperation sets him apart from the pack. Tim Tebow has this potential. If you draft for potential, Tebow is the man. If you are looking for the safe pick, there simply isn’t one, we do not know how it will work out. We MUST put our best foot forward, and steal the type of potentail in the draft that could set us apart from the other teams for years. If he does not work out, hey, drafts come along every year. However, if he is what I suspect him to be, we would greatly mourn the fact we passed on him.
What shoe should we wear? you decide.
Strength and honor
"It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you've got to have is faith and discipline when you're not yet a winner." -Vince lombarti
by kybroncomaniac on Jan 28, 2010 7:12 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree with Mario being a backup.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Jan 28, 2010 12:36 AM MST reply actions
I think he should get him a lot of PT
But if Ayers can develop into the player I think he can be, i think he should be a backup
by DBroncs1414 on Jan 28, 2010 12:39 AM MST up reply actions
If Ayers is THAT good, I have no problem with it.
Best player at his position gets the starting job. But I still think Mario has done well as a starter. He’s finally found his niche (and he always was meant to be a 34 OLB).
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Jan 28, 2010 12:47 AM MST up reply actions
I guess were on the same page then
But I still expect ayers to do well. the guy played as a linemen in college, and now, not only did he hav to make the tough adjustment to the nfl, but at a pos he never played before? I really think the guy needed at least one year to develop before being a fulltime starter, just like larry english. Plus, he got plenty of PT at the end of the year, and he kept getting more as the season went on. I think the more he plays the better he’ll get
by DBroncs1414 on Jan 28, 2010 12:51 AM MST up reply actions
Mayock
Said that Ayers was the best defensive player coming out last year. Of all the so called critics he is by far the best evaluator
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Ya he said that about 5 years down the road he thought Ayers would be the best player out of the draft
It’s quite the statement……..but i like Mike Mayock as a draft anylist, i think he’s better than a lot of the others out there
We gotta get our first round pick out there, man
I just really think Ayers started to improve as the season went on, and I believe he is ready to start with Doom.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
I am not high on Tebow,
however, I can see where you are coming from. A first round pick ( #10 or #11) is a bit high though. The debate on how he will do and who should draft him and where will be quite interesting to listen to till draft day. The first day is primetime @ 7:30 est.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
For our money
I think I want a guy who is going to work harder than every player every day, and a guy who is going to push the rest of his teammates to work just as hard. Thats one of the things I love about Tebow.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
Whoever gets him will definatly get that.
If he somehow lands in Denver I will be behind him 100%. If I remember correctly, aren’t one of the downsides that people are saying about him deal with is accuracy? They guy is player and a solid teammate. He does have attributes that you just can’t teach and that is a solid plus.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
I would like to see it.
With all the “experts” saying that Tebow will not translate to the NFL..my gut keeps telling me that he will. Not sure how many GM’s actually pick a guy on a gut feeling in rd 1 but I would try it in Tebow’s Case.
I am in %100 agreement that Orton is not the long term answer. Pick Tebow or Clausen and get on to winning games.
by CastorTroy on Jan 28, 2010 12:43 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I agree
the amount of doubt on Tebow right now is really making me wonder if anyone saw him play the last four years.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
I did
And he is a great college QB, but his skills don’t translate to the pro game, there aren’t any Vandy’s or MSU on the schedule in the NFL. He will get killed running the ball because he is not that fast and can’t make people miss like Vick, and he is not accurate and has horrible mechanics, two things that will get you killed throwing the ball. There have been plenty of great college QB that didn’t translate to the pros, Ty Detmer was an awesome college QB with much better mechanics and accuracy than Teabow, but he was a back-up, guys like Akili Smith ring a bell, same issues. Teabow may be a great guy and all, but I don’t see him doing anything in the NFL other than being a curiousity.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
i appreciate the hard work on this but
I would be very upset if that actually happened. if tebow is the best at 10 or 11 then we need to trade back.
Thanks
I understand that, and I can respect it. I just see Tebow as a huge add for this team.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Can we draft Riley Cooper then?
Give Tebow his Center and favorite WR…
;)
Quit drinking the Kool-Aid and start drinking the good stuff, and everything is always alright.
by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Jan 28, 2010 1:50 AM MST reply actions
Heck yeah!
That’d be sweet. Another big, 6’5" target.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
Please not Clausen.
Maybe Tebow will stink it up at the Senior bowl and the combine and we’ll be able to get him with a 3rd round pick. I wouldn’t mind then. I think the guy can play but I think he may take a little longer to get used to the NFL game and develop his mechanics to the point where he can play in the league. I would rather him be our 3rd QB behind Tom B. and maybe line up as a WR or TE in the slot. Could you imagine Tebow in an Antonio Gates type role taking on line backers? I would like that.
Outstanding ideas Sayre.
I’ve never been big on the mock drafts as you never know what can happen with so many different moving parts in the league, but I had to dig into this one. Tebow to Denver. Well I spent about a half hour reading articles, watching highlights, and watching interviews and I developed my own opinion. You run the highlights and you might not see the best drops, the best runs, or the prettiest throws… but the guy has a knack for making plays. People criticise so often when a guy’s mechanics are less than steller or they’ve got a ton of things to work on… but I look at it this way:
If a guy can have all of those issues and still find a way to win… then man, the potential seems almost limitless. Now I didn’t see this at first… it was after I watched an interview with him and the guys from NFLN at the senior bowl and I am complete hooked. I’m all in on Tebow to follow Orton and Brandstater on our roster. Give him a year or two to work with the McDaniels brothers and watch Orton and Brandstaters dedication to knowledge and I can only see the upsides. After hearing him talk I would be dead shocked to not see him go in the first round. Our Broncos are in the best position to take a guy in this situation as well. Josh has got control of the team, is the offensive shotcaller, and has the knowledge and experience to personally work on Tebow with his fundamentals. Denver is in a great position to make a move on him with the 10th or 11th pick, and we’ve got a handful of players we can use to make moves up in the draft if need be.
Great work Sayre. I would say that you’ve got me sold, but Tebow just plain sells himself so well that he doesn’t need anybodies help. If anyone wants some great insight on the QB check out his interview at the senior bowl HERE.
I don't need a talented, well-coached, winning-only team to get me out of my seat to shout "Orange Crush" until my lungs bleed every Sunday. I will love my Broncos whole-heartedly, no matter how disfunctional they might every become.
by USMCWall on Jan 28, 2010 2:22 AM MST reply actions 3 recs
You've hit the nail right on the head
Everything you just said is why I want Tebow. Well done. Well done.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
Maybe we should start the "Florida to Denver Tebow Train" Lol.
History has a history of making fools of the foolish. - Alexander Wall and.... BAM, Coined!
Thanks for the link.
That was a good interview and you can just see how much he loves football.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Tebow is a great player!
but with the needs of our team it becomes unjustified to draft him at #10. If we trade Marshall and get a late first rounder I would take Tebow there, but not at #10. Denver could also trade back from #10.
If Denver drafted Tebow at #10, McDaniels would receive more scrutiny than he already has for some of his decisions. Not that that is a reason to make the decision, but we need to go with the a player who is going to help us this year not next.
Saying that, I love Tebow. I think that McDaniels could do wonders for his mechanics. Imagine how Tebow could help in the Redzone or on short yardage plays?? Great leadeer, great teammate, great person, and just plain great. He would become the face of the organization.
This is how I would want it (without all the details of trades)
1a. Iupati G
1b. Tebow QB
2. Cody NT
3. A. Benn WR
That'd be awesome if I thought it were possible to get Tebow later
I just can’t see it right now. I doubt he will be there that late.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
Riley Cooper ...late round? YES
Tebow…..? Hmmmmmm, no! He is who he is, a great leader w/o positional skill! I’d take Tony Pike in a heartbeat. If we’re looking for college tandems… Let’s go for Pike-Gilyard! McCoy-Shipley. I’m afraid Tebow is going to be a H-Back, FB, TE,…
Or let’s wait for 2011 and snag Ryan Mallet (Ark). Wait until this year, and watch this kid come on! His stock should shoot up charts! Strongest arm I’ve ever seen, and he can throw it w/accuracy!
"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM
Tony Pikes arm strength is worse than Chad Pennington's
I don’t like him at all.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
heck no
No tebow no way in the first round. He might make an ok receiving tight end. Get a real QB if your going to draft one. Tebow seems like a nice guy i’ll give him that.
I disagree
Gotta put on the tape, man. What has he done in college that indicates he’s not a good QB?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
I Cannot Convince myself
That Tebow is not going to end up a top tier QB. As soon as he is drafted, 31 other teams are going to secretly regret it. We do not need to be one of the 31, we need to be that one in a million who does not listen to critics and main steam media. Wee need to follow our gut instincts, and do what is right. Setting yourself up for success takes guts, smarts, and courage of convictions What are we made of? We will find out.
Strength and honor
"It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you've got to have is faith and discipline when you're not yet a winner." -Vince lombarti
And has anyone followed their instincts more in the last year than Josh McDaniels
He’s certainly not afraid to make bold moves.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
Huge Tim Tebow Fan
I believe there was another potential HOF QB who received the same draft reports as Tebow. Anyone recall Philip Rivers scouting reports…very weird side-arm delivery but did nothing but win in college. Reports said he lacked arm strength but had good accuracy. However, he had taken the Wolfpack to 4 consecutive bowl games including a win over Notre Dame. What you get in Tebow is a humble, gifted leader, knows how to win, passionate in every way about life, football, and his teammates, will give you all he has on every play of every game, to me that’s priceless. If we can pick him up 1st round, mark my words, he will not play the hold out game. He’ll sign his fair-market contract, get to camp in time, work his tail-end of and win ultimately. Let’s go get him!!!!!
Romans 5:8
I just vomited.
Rivers in the hall……. I just threw up again…..
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 8:18 AM MST up reply actions
one thing rivers has that tebow doesnt
Accuracy
Rivers had about a 70 percent completion percentage in collge. For his mechanical issues, they never interfered with his accuracy.
Compare that to tebow, and you see its a completely different comparison.
I think Tebow actually improved a lot this last year. A year ago, he looked so awful passing that I figured him for a 5th/6th round pick. What little I saw of him this year, he looked significantly better… You can tell he heard the critiques and worked to get better.
However, he’s still a major project, and would be a major mistake at #10/11. If we get a later 1st (20+) or he falls to the second, he’s worth considering. But his bust potential is HUGE, which you can’t do with a top 15 contract.
by cjfarls on Jan 28, 2010 9:32 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
A better comparison
would be Alex Smith. Strong character. Was a shotgun quarterback in Urban Meyer’s offense and was a winner going undefeated with Utah his final season. Only difference, is he has a lot stronger arm and is more accurate.
Wasn't Tebow's in the high 60's though?
And he certainly played against better defenses in the SEC than Rivers did in the ACC.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
Rivers
General feelings on Rivers as an opponent not withstanding, I found a few striking similarities to Tebow and a lot of differences:
6’5, 229 (so, taller, which McD has said that he prefers)
Analysis
Positives…Has a tall, linear build with adequate body thickness and good size for his position…Shows good arm strength and velocity…Very smart athlete who makes proper judgments (rarely throws into traffic) ((One of Tebow’s weaknesses is his decision-making, according to multiple sources)…Has great poise and pocket presence, as he will stand tall and deliver under pressure (Tebow prefers to run more – neither is ‘right’ but the Broncos usually prefer Rivers’ approach)…Takes control in the huddle and is very respected by his teammates(Same)…Displays above average ball placement in the short area passing game and throws a very catchable ball, knowing exactly when to zip the pigskin and when to show touch…Has a natural feel for when he needs to slide out of the pocket and avoid the pass rush…seems to always be in sync with his receivers, doing an excellent job in timing his tosses and anticipating when to hit his targets in stride…Has a keen understanding of the offense, keeping his head on a swivel as he checks down the line…Vocal leader who words hard in the weight room and practices…Highly competitive type who is not afraid to “mix it up” when defenders get over-aggressive…Has the body strength to fight off pressure and get free from the blitz…More comfortable in the short-to-intermediate passing game, displaying incredible accuracy (Similar, but Rivers accuracy was/is better)..Not fast, but can buy time with his feet and maintains his accuracy throwing on the move (his precision allows him to squeeze the ball into tight areas) (Tebow wins with his feet, Rivers with his arm)…Will need mechanical refinement, but much like Brett Favre, this kid is a flat-out winner (Tied).
Negatives…Won’t ever hurt you by running the ball, but has enough foot quickness and hip swerve to elude the rush and throw on the move(Tebow)…Needs to work on his foot quickness in his drops, but has made steady improvement in recent years(About equal, perhaps a bit to Rivers)…Throws the ball with a sidearm motion, but he can improvise and make plays with his creativity…Will struggle with his long tosses, as the ball will sail and hang on him (his best way to get the ball deep is through an awkward wind-up delivery)…His unorthodox style sees him keep the ball at his waist, displaying a low release, but he has good timing. (Equal)
My only concern here? So far, I’m mostly hearing what Tebow does not offer that the Broncos do – but Sayre should get in his chance here.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Great comment
Though I hope the only hall Rivers ever sniffs is…well I can’t think of a good joke. I agree totally though. Tebow is a team player. He does whatever it takes to win.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
Don't mistake me for a Rivers fan....
LOL, I was just making a comparison between a QB who had an awkward ball delivery. Tebow’s career average completion percentage was 66.45%. Combine that with his instinct in the pocket to feel the pressure and move the ball vertically, I think you have a better player than both Alex Smith and Philip Rivers, potentially. Now, let’s all be honest. The kid hasn’t even taken a snap in the NFL so we can only conjecture on the given tangibles and intangibles. It’s my opinion that, while he is a project QB, I think he will most definitely be a reward for whoever picks him up. At stake too is the fact that he ran for over 900 yds. against nearly pro-style defenses. Against Alabama, he rushed for 63 yds. against Saban’s defense. That’s nothing to shake a finger at. On the flip side, he did only complete 57% of his passes.
I’m just saying, I really hope the stars line up correctly because I think Tebow would flourish in Denver. He buys into the whole “team before me” concept and I truly can’t imagine him ever being an issue in the locker room. I’ll go so far as to say that he could be an offensive “Brian Dawkins”. I’m just sayin…..
Romans 5:8
Love it!
These first two picks are a dream draft – and a plausible one at that. Tebow will not last until our 2nd pick. That coin flip with Jacksonville could determine a lot of destinies.
That's where I agree
I don’t think Tebow will fall to our second round pick, so we’ve got to go with him early on.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Two words: Sean Canfield.....
The best value in the draft in the 3rd round, many mocks have him going to Denver then. Do your homework and don’t get all sold on the glamor of the 1st round. Besides we need Defense anyway.
Sean Canfield Oregon State, look it up
Sorry, but it was our offense that sucked in 2009
Not our defense. We need offense. I’m not sold on Canfield. He seems to be physically ready for the NFL, but I didn’t see much production from him in college.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Very good
mock and comments. If we can’t trade down our 10/11 pick for a lower 1st and an extra 2nd or trade Marshall for an extra 1st our draft is in trouble. We need lots of help. Tebow doesn’t provide that. No to Tebow in 1st round. 2nd round I wouldn’t mind him. I really like your new addition of Sean Lee. I too have been thinking Micah Johnson and haven’t looked at Lee until now. Andre has one more year, we need a good replacement and I hope we get it here in the 3rd round with Lee or Johnson.
The only extra picks I concede to right now is if we can trade down(hard to do) and one for Scheff. Going with that here’s my mock.
1. 10/11 Cody
2. 45 Pouncey, Asamoah or Ducasse
3a. 80 Dan Lefevour
3b. 84 Lee or Johnson
The rest of the picks are determined by what we got with first 4
One more thing. Hate to call you out on this but are you sure Prater is a FA? He’s not on the lists I found.
"Just trying to win a MF game."
If
we do manage a trade down I still take Cody if there or Williams and then get 2 of the guys listed on #2.
"Just trying to win a MF game."
We could be the Denver Gators?
They wear orange and blue, right?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah
Here’s a list;
WR Riley Cooper
DE Jermaine Cunningham
DE Carlos Dunlap
CB Joe Haden
TE Aaron Hernandez
RB Brandon James
C Maurkice Pouncey
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Ryan Stamper
QB Tim Tebow
S Major Wright
"Just trying to win a MF game."
Actually, not a bad idea
I would love to see Cooper, Dunlap, Haden, James, Pouncey, Spikes, and Tebow on our team
The rest I could take or leave.
Only Alabama gets that much love from me: McClain, Arenas, Mike Johnson, Cody (for the right price), and the other CB opposite Arenas (forget his name now)
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Jan 28, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
Cody is the polar opposite of Tebow
Fat. Lazy. No work ethic. Shows up to the biggest audition of his life OVERWEIGHT, which even for him is a stretch. I wouldn’t take Terrence Cody in the fifth round, let alone in the first at 10 overall. He is going to bust in the NFL, and bust hard.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:29 AM MST up reply actions
3 months
until the draft yet. His value will go up as will Iupati’s. I really don’t like anyone at our current spot. Can you tell me where you see Prater as a FA.
"Just trying to win a MF game."
Please Josh
do not stay at the 10/11 spot. Trade up or trade down, I don’t care, but move out of this spot. Maybe we lose the coin toss and Jax takes Tebow at 10!
"Just trying to win a MF game."
Matt Prater's contract details:
Rotoworld lists him as a 2010 RFA
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Thank you
The sites I looked at didn’t have him on the list. I especially liked your site mentioned for this page;
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_contracts.aspx?sport=NFL&majteam=DEN
"Just trying to win a MF game."
I'm not a fan of Tebow in the first.
Second maybe. Third definitely. I don’t think we can afford to waste a first rounder on this guy, especially if his stock is falling at the Senior Bowl. We could get him on the cheap if we let him fall and take him later.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
Other than that, I really liked it.
The Brandon Marshall situation is genius. All the analysts and fans think we have to get rid of him and I don’t think that’s the case at all. Sure, it would be ideal to get rid of him and get ridiculous compensation for him, but it would be awesome if we could keep him. If money is what he wants and that will make him happy, then he could still stay here. If his problem is deeper and he genuinely doesn’t like McD or Denver, then he should go. It remains to be seen which of those cases is more legit, in this situation.
Good stuff, Sayre.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 9:09 AM MST up reply actions
If you pass on him at 10, you're not going to get him
So I would like to pose you the question: Take him at 10 or miss out on him at all?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
Why do you even ask!?
There is not even a question there…let me translate what Sayre is asking for the masses:
“Would you like to take your 1st round pick and just mash it into the garbage can like so much crinkled paper that has been spat upon numerous times, or would you like to do something that has some semblance of value for our football team?”
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I say pass then.
The bust factor is too high IMO to give tebow a pick at ten.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
Also, I think we have bigger holes to fill with the 10 pick. QB isn't our biggest priority on draft day.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
Just saying, seems to me
Like every player we have had picked in the 10th/11th slot has been a luxury, not a need. Dez Bryant, Rolando McClain, and now Tebow. You can’t reach for need, so IMO Dan Williams is outsdie the realm of possibility at ten. Tebow can lead this offense/team for the next decade plus if he gets the right coaching.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
I completely agree that 10/11 is a luxury.
I’d love to trade down, first of all, to around 20 or so. Then, we could take the best of whoever falls to us. We need OG, depth at OT, center, ILB, and Dan Williams would certainly help us out, as well.
I’d love to see us get Iupati, Pouncey and Micah Johnson, in that order. That would make me very happy. If Tebow dropped, I would certainly take him before Micah Johnson. I’m about 50/50 taking him before Pouncey.
I feel that offensive line is our biggest hole and we need to fill that first. Free agency could change my mind, depending on who we go after, but If the draft were to happen tomorrow, I’d go offensive line before I went QB.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
Good thoughts
I know it kind of gets lost in the Tebow part of the mock, but I did have us picking up Pouncey and Carter, two starting caliber players.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 1:08 PM MST up reply actions
This is true.
I’m completely cool with your picks, Sayre. You’ve done a great job all offseason and I don’t see why this one pick diminishes anything you’ve done. Opinions are opinions. You like tebow at 10/11 and that’s cool. That’s what Draftivus is all about.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 1:19 PM MST up reply actions
Tebow not early in the first
If we could get a second first rounder, or two more second round picks, via trade, I could see Tebow in the late first early second round. The guy is a true unselfish leader, on the Peyton Manning level of leaders. He just needs some fine tuning courtesy of the McDaniels brothers.
I'm not going to believe he will fall to the second
So. You take him at 10 or miss out on him. Which do you choose?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
Just like Tebow is not going to believe that he's not a NFL-caliber quarterback
lol
Let me know if my humor is getting out of line and I’ll hush up. :)
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I'd be fine
with taking Tebow early if that insures we get him. This guy’s intagibles remind me of Brian Dawkins, albeit much younger. I didn’t like him at first, probably because he is just so good. He has a great attitude, awesome in the locker room, humble, incredibly versitle, hes not gonna hold out, hes not gonna go all jay cutler on every body, hes not gonna be on any police blotters, he’d imbrace a fan base like Denver’s, and you know he would be great in the community. I really think it’s worth a risk, mechanics can be tweaked (aren’t we supposed to have a QB developing gure for a coach?) He’s going to be a solid player at some position, he’s to driven and athletic not to be. Have I become gay for Tebow? apparently
I agree
I think a lot of people have become “gay” for Tebow if your comment means that. I’d actually like to echo what you’ve just said in this comment. Those reasons you like Tebow I like Tebow, and I hope McDaniels does too.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I get a strange Matt Leinart vibe from the usual ESPN over hype concerning Tebow. I do not see him correcting his mechanics early enough to justify taking him in the 1st or 2nd round when the Broncos have glaring needs on the O & D lines.
A left handed QB has a blind side when throwing and I don’t think that Tebow has the ability to get rid of a football quickly enough when under duress as we witnessed in the SEC Championship against an aggressive D.
Tebow has benefited from a Florida team that has had a good array of players on both sides of the ball during his tenure as starter. Saddle him with an average at best team like Vanderbilt and he would most likely be an average QB at best.
Tebow might be a nice guy (I don’t agree with some of his beliefs but what the heck,,,he has a right to an opinion as long as we have a separation of sport and church) but how does that translate to never playing a down against the bigger, nastier, and faster NFL that loves to eat up rookies at QB? Until he takes a snap in a regular season game in the NFL he is another over hyped draft prospect that gets far too much ESPN coverage and credit for what the rest of his team as a whole accomplished . Humble is nice but can it make his arm get rid of the ball faster and more accurately?
We forget that Kyle Orton is a nice stand up type of guy and has proven that he can still play this position for the Broncos in 2010. Considering the overhaul to the entire team he did pretty well with a watered down playbook, rookie RB, and an O-line that was switching schemes.
by sid66 on Jan 28, 2010 9:16 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
I agree that he has a lot to prove
but matt leinart has proven to be more concerened about partying and being a celebrity, i dont think they are similar at all. and there would be no way he played qb as a rookie, he would definately be a project. but he is far and away a more driven individual that leinart.
Awesome take...
…from top to bottom.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 28, 2010 9:35 AM MST reply actions
Oops, that was meant for sid66.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 28, 2010 9:35 AM MST up reply actions
Decker = McCaffrey jr.
Sticky hands.
Step aside, my friend, I been doin' it for years.
Said sit on down, open ya eyes, say open up ya ears....
Sorry Sayre
I wouldn’t take Tebow before the third round. I think at times we as fans can get cuaght up in college production and don’t look at the fact that there is a big leap to the NFL. Basically, he does absolutely have all the intangibles, but has non of the tangibles, slow release, hasn’t had to read defenses in the drop back, footwork will need tweaking.
All these tangabiles are ingrained in his make-up as a player and would take years if at all to correct, high risk low reward.
I would consider taking him but not before the fourth round. Just my thoughts
I won't have to consider it
Because it will be too late. You know there are 32 teams interested in this guy based on his work ethic and intangibles alone.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Where is all the Brandstater love
from before this season started? Why would we take Tebow #1 to be a clipboard holder for a year or two when we have a quality QB already in development and holding a clipboard?
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on Jan 28, 2010 9:46 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Don't get me wrong
I think Tebow’s intangibles are incredible. But is a developing QB a “need” for this team?
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
I'm with you.
It would be awkward if they held the clipboard together.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 28, 2010 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
Finally...TB will be our #2 this year and will be ready to step in if/when he is needed...TB has everything that McD is looking for!
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 28, 2010 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
Tebow or Brandstater
Which one would you honestly choose?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Brandstater
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
That's your opinion
But based on both of their bodies of work, I will never be convinced that Brandstater is a superior prospect.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
Sayre...I totally agree with your evaluation of Tebow and I have commented as such in other comments...
However…I do not think that this is the right time, right place, considering all the multitude of variables, existing talent and prefered retentions, immediate positional needs (specific to the OL and ILB), and of course BPA considerations…If we were to obtain additional picks (i.e. Marshall) and still satisfy some of the other concerns and Tebow were to still be available 2/3, I would be right there with ya…Just not at 10/11
If we didn’t have TB, I might feel differently.
Just my opinion of course!
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 28, 2010 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
The only thing is
we have never seen a player like tebow and i dont think we will anytime soon, to me its not right time right place, its only time only place
by plainview88 on Jan 28, 2010 12:19 PM MST up reply actions
I'm sure that McX and Crew will consider all options, moves, etc.
If it works out and we end up taking him I will be very suprised…
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 28, 2010 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
I would agree
BroncTastic, the broncos have many more pressing needs to fill before we look at QB, especially since more than likely it will be Orton for one to two more years even if we were to draft one of the top 2 QB’s just to get them seasoned
Just wondering
Which areas did I not address in this mock draft? Just because I took Tebow in the first I didn’t look to other areas of need?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
My 2 cents
Draft BPA that fits team needs. I am against drafting a QB period that high in the draft. We have a solid improving fairly young I think 26 year old QB in Orton, we have a soon to be 2nd year QB with all the tools to run McD’s offense from what I understand so why waste a high draft pick on a position when we don’t have a need? That’s all I’m saying, I am like most everyone else I have my gut feeling about whether or not Tebow will be a great NFL QB personally I don’t but regardless of that we need a stud DL, OL, or even LB. I like McClain at 10/11 if he is available. He was the best athlete and football player on Alabamas defense in the “National Championship” game. If we have a good draft or two then we can start looking at the BPA scenario to add depth but we are not there yet from a talent stand point on this roster.
Sayre please!!!! HEAD TOWARDS THE LIGHT!
Dude…you’re headed the wrong friggin way! How did you get from Bryant to Tebone!?
You didn’t have much credibility with me before, but it has all absolutely flown out the window now. Same with the rest who think Tebow is a good idea….yeah maybe as a TE….maybe after the 2nd round…but he’s believing that he’s gonna be a gosh darn QB in the NFL.
Ugh. His mechanics are horrid, his accuracy is very much in question, and I have seen almost nothing that shows me he can handle progressing through reads in an NFL game.
Someone please get the CSP (Common Sense Police) in here STAT!
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Easy, sadarine
I couldn’t care less where my credibility stands with you. I have an opinion and I’m sticking with it. IF we don’t draft Tebow, then fine. I’ll roll with whoever we get. If I’m mocking the Broncos draft, this is who I believe we SHOULD get, as of this day. As of this moment in time.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
And I applaud you sticking to your opinion...shows more spine than most people
I just think your opinion is completely silly no matter how steadfast you are about it.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
And I think you not liking Tebow
Is silly as well, but I’m not bashing you for it.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
If I want to read hair-brained draft ideas, I'll go MSM
I expect more realistic exercises of intellect at MHR. I’m okay with someone saying Tebow is “interesting” or “could be good” if drafted at a value position.
Saying let’s go throw down our first round draft pick for this kid is just nuts.
The thing you have going for you is that there seem to be enough people that share your enthusiasm for him at some level…so enjoy your dream while the off season lasts.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Good god, have you seen his practices
He can’t compete on the same level with third round guys, if McDaniels wastes a 1st round pick on Teabow he needs to be fired immediately. Teabow was a great college QB, but that does not translate into the NFL, Eric Couch and Danny Wuerfial were great college QB but neither was any good in the NFL. I respect you but, there is no way that Teabow is worth anything more than a 4th round pick.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Broncoman is now an official representative of the CSP
Please show your badge wherever needed…especially in mock drafts with us taking Tebow in the 1st round or with us taking Dez Bryant in the first round with our #10 pick.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
So does horrible college QB translate to the NFL?
Just wondering, because if being a great college QB is grounds for not drafting a guy, then I don’t want to be part of this anymore. Eric Crouch was 5’10". And he’s not a good QB to begin with.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
No
But you have to look how his game translates in the NFL, I can go down the list of great college QB’s that stunk it up in the NFL, lets look at Kordell Stewart, I saw a lot of his games, and he was a much better prospect coming out of college than Teabow as far as mechanics, velocity, accuracy, and running ability, but he still could not translate into a consistent starter in the NFL, mainly because his accuracy was bad. Teabow has that same problem and if he didn’t fix it in college, I doubt his transition to the NFL will fix it. He may be a guy like Rich Gannon who struggles for years and finally becomes a decent QB at age 30, but I can’t see waiting for 8 years for Teabow to develop.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
If the teddy bear
is made of asbestos and covered in lead paint, then you may want to replace it no matter how well you think it complements the kid.
Intriguing stuff Sayre but
yeah, sorry, taking Tim Tebow with the #10 pick in the draft is not just risky, but a total mistake. Sorry. I don’t see him going in the top 15 to 20 picks and if he does, well I’d rather it be some other team than ours. And yes, I’m one of those who doesn’t dislike Tebow as a pick in general, if they were able to get him in 3rd or 4th round I’d be happy. I think he’s better than Tim Couch f’rinstance, and if as you predict he’ll be gone long before Denver would have another shot at him, so be it. He’s too risky imho for a team that has more pressing needs right now, namely the OL and the DL. It’s a deep draft but not so deep that they can risk not getting the best players available at positions they really need. Again, I like Tebow, he’s intriguing to me, too, but not THAT much.
If they take him with the #10 pick I may do what another commenter here threatened to do vis a vis Dez Bryant: eat my shoe Werner Herzog style. ;-)
Thanks for these mock drafts though, lotta good stuff here.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
I'd be with you on Tebow...
…because the idea of him translating is intriguing. If Denver was going to draft a QB in the first round, he’d probably be my choice.
I just think they have much bigger fish to fry at this point. He’d be a great idea for the team that has it all and has the luxury of rolling the dice. But for a team that lacks the fundemental pieces on offense, that is under talented along the dline, and that has a secondary that could have key contributors start breaking down by virtue of age any day now, he doesn’t seem like a smart pick to me. He seems like a big gamble that has just as much of chance as being a wasted premium pick as he does of helping this team over the hump. I don’t think McD has the luxury of making that gamble.
Basically, it’d be hard to justify, IMO, especially since Kyle Orton did a respectable job under difficult conditions. The better play and quicker fix is to try to help Kyle Orton rather than finding his replacement.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 28, 2010 11:00 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
Alex Smith ring a bell/maybe even Vince Young
Not as athletic, however he faced the same challenges that Tebow will face and look at his track record.
I might even put Vince Young in this arguement, he hasn’t shown much up until now, I would still give him a year or two to see, but my point is that athletisism can work well in the college game, but in the pros technique becomes even more important.
VY's problem is that he is somewhat of a mental midget
not the case with tebow
by plainview88 on Jan 28, 2010 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
No, those don't ring bells
Neither has anywhere near the intangibles that Tebow has. similar tools? Maybe, but intangibles go to Tebow hands down. I’ll take the smarter player any day.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
I disagree for several reasons
Tebow is going to be a project. The only way I see him making an immediate impact is if he is placed in a run first offense, where he is doing a lot of running and his poor short/intermediate accuracy and infernally long release time can be mitigated by simple plays that generally have only one read. Doesn’t sound like anything the Broncos have been trying to do, this year or in years past.
Now, if he doesn’t make an instant impact, you instead have him on the bench and attempt to coach him into better mechanics and smarter play (like not instantly running the ball when there are issues—NFL defenders will crush him if he runs with the same love of contact he had in college). Unfortunately, this would probably put him on a timeline to be “ready” at the same time as Brandstater, after next season. If we go with Tom, we “wasted” two years of coaching on a guy. If we go with Tim, we “wasted” a first round draft pick that could have been used for much more pressing needs.
Sorry, I just don’t see it for a multitude of reasons, one of them being that I think there is far too much risk that he just won’t pan out in our offense.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
Your lack of confidence in our coaching is more concerning to me than anything
You don’t seem to have a lack of faith in Tebow, you seem to lack faith in McD, which bothers me a bit because of his previous success with less talented QB’s. Just think of what he could do with a talent like Tebow. Also, not that the Broncos need it very much, but we would sell out every game just by having him on the roster. He brings too much to a team to simply write off the idea, as you have.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Absolutely wrong
McD having success coaching NFL QUARTERBACKS is not the equivalent to coaching Tim Tebow. Tebow is not on any level a NFL quality quarterback. Let’s compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges please.
I have tons of faith in McD, but I have yet to see him turn water into wine…which is what you would be asking him to do drafting Tebow in the first round.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Yet you think he can make Brandstater into a star?
Spare me.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 2:31 PM MST up reply actions
When did I say that?
Don’t put words in my mouth. That is about the biggest DB thing a blogger can do on these forums.
Spare me indeed.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Those aren't the two words you're looking for...
It isn’t “Whatever man”…it is “I apologize”
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Nope, the only thing I'm sorry for
Is feeding this on for so long.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
I hear you man
Its like I’m playing poker with my sister’s kids…
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
careful
first of all there appears to be some mixing up of comments, let us be careful to avoid that.
I have every confidence in McDaniels and the coaching staff he has assembled to coax things out of great talent that are more than the sum of their parts. However, I don’t think that has anything to do with this: I think the manifold problems with Tebow’s game will limit him at the NFL level (regardless of good or poor coaching), and moreover his skillset meshes rather poorly with the skillset that (to me) appears necessary for a Bronco QB.
In my opinion, picks in the first half of the first round should be able to immediately thrive (ala Ryan Clady). There is simply too much money thrown into them to have otherwise. I do not doubt that McDaniels could get every last ounce of usefulness out of Tebow, but the risks involved is too great to make him our top pick.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Jan 28, 2010 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
Good points, as usual Jason
moreover his skillset meshes rather poorly with the skillset that (to me) appears necessary for a Bronco QB.
This is where you and Sayre obviously are coming from different cosmic nebula – Sayre has stated several times that he considers Tebow’s skillset perfect for the Broncos (and, although I have not seen this, mentions taht Lombardi, Maylock and Davis agree) and you point is the opposite.
I’ll play instigator for once – Would either or you care to be precise? Other than character, what does Sayre see that he believes meshes so well with Josh McD’s approach? And, to the contrary, what is it that Jason sees that is such a bad fit? Forgive me for seeming to game-play here – I think that this is at the heart of much of the matter, and the question appears to me to be central to either perspective.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
I've seen the video with Mayock, Davis and Lombardi
They were talking more about the front office and head coach situation than Tebow’s skillset.
Offensive-minded head coach in control of organisation
That was they’re reasoning for mentioning the Broncos. For what its worth, they also talked about WAS (“Shanahan is the perfect guy for him”), JAX (" [Owner] Reaver has pretty much said they want Tebow") and SF (“Singletary will sympathise with him”).
There was absolutely no mention of Tebow’s skillset. Here is the video.
Actually, they mentioned McD's innovative offensive mind
And how he could use Tebow.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 8:56 PM MST up reply actions
I think we are talking about different (but quite similar) videos
They don’t talk specifically about how he could use him, other than to say McD would need to have a plan specifaclly for Tebow.
In the other video, they mention Shanahan as being “the perfect guy for him”. I think it has merit and that Shanahan may be a better fit than McD. DCJ pointed out earlier that Shanahan’s system with bootlegs and roll outs might fit Tebow’s skillset better than McD’s which seems to be more focussed on pure pocket passing.
Tebow may very well be successful in the NFL. But success with one organisation does not mean he would have success with another. Personally, I feel that his skillset/gamestyle (whatever you want to call it) does not fit our system well, even if his intangibles fit perfectly. If that is true, I would consider him to be a waste of a pick no matter what round it was in.
by Timimus on Jan 28, 2010 9:14 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
In addition to his character
I see a strong arm. I see escape ability. I see intelligence. I see willingness to work. Motivator. Team player. Coachable. Winner. Versatile. And while his throwing motion is not great, his accuracy is far better than he is given credit, especially in the short range. Check me on this, but I believe his accuracy increased every year, and this past year his completion percentage was 68%, which is very good considering the competition he played against.
I believe with a year or two of observing, good coaching, and studying, he will be an elite quarterback.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 8:59 PM MST up reply actions
actually
you are playing Solomon more than instigating, I think.
I will concede that from a character/personality front, Tebow is exactly the kind of person the Broncos (meaning the current staff, McD and the rest) want on the team. His qualities of work ethic, leadership,and giving his all are definitely second to none.
I’ll also admit that I’m not the hugest college fan (one reason is I get tired of hearing about “containment” and “breaking contain” on every other play)—certainly not the best person to ask about the draft, and my time spent seeing college film is far more limited than NFL. However, from what I’ve seen (and a little of what I’ve heard mixed in for reinforcement), there are a few main concerns. Firstly, I think Tebow has poor decision making skills. If a play doesn’t develop how he expects, he doesn’t appear ready to go to another read, his reaction seems to be to just tuck and run. Now, this could just be a bad habit, since he was able to run the ball rather effectively in college it wasn’t really a bad choice, or it may be that he doesn’t “think on his feet” like any NFL QB needs to.
He also seems uncomfortable in the pocket. Again, this could be due to the seduction of the run game, or it could be deeper than that. I do not believe that Tebow can be nearly as successful running the ball in the NFL as he was in college, and this is one area where I really see his skillset not jiving. I don’t see McDaniels running a bunch of option plays or QB draws or really much anything where the quarterback is designed to take the ball to the defense. NFL defenders are too hard-hitting and the QB position is too expensive and important to take those risks, and IMO McD wouldn’t be willing to do much of that.
Finally, the quality of his thrown passes leaves some to be desired. The balls he throws (careful with the wording there) do not have a consistent spiral, and while I think there is nothing wrong with his short accuracy, intermediate and longer definitely has issues, especially with the ducks. How many times in college do we see a duck hang through the air eventually reach it’s target? The prettiest pass isn’t necessarily needed in college. In the NFL, however, even the worst secondaries are so much faster and better than college secondaries. NFL secondaries close and break up or intercept passes that hang in the air as wounded ducks.
Finally, there are also a number of mechanical flaws in his delivery, the biggest which concerns me is the length of his release, because I think that one might be the hardest one to “coach out” of him. In the NFL the length of release can easily determine a strip sack or a completed pass.
At any rate, the offense that I see the Broncos run appears to be extremely complex and very reliant on a QBs decision making. McD wants his QB to make any throw on the field at will, and be accurate. Short and intermediate timing and combination routes seem to be heavily used. The QB is expected to be comfortable in the pocket and avoid poor decisions leading to negative plays. Nearly every play has multiple reads and the QB needs to be able to progress to the correct read given the defense, and this can mean utilizing things like pump fakes or looking off safeties to enable the throw.
That about sums it up really. Clearly Tebow has mechanical issues, most of these are not my main concerns as good coaching would probably be able to iron most of them out to an extent (although the release troubles me). The wounded duck affect has me really troubled, coaching may or may not be able to help this. Finally I see aspects of his decision making troubling, especially in relation to the Broncos’ offensive style as I see it, and this is something that cannot really be coached.
However, again I emphasize that he certainly has many qualities that McD and staff rave about.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Jan 28, 2010 9:28 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
**CHEERS WILDLY**
Fantastic post pbw.
Your turn Sayre…bring it!
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
by sadaraine on Jan 29, 2010 9:00 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
sayre..
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Packers-make-resigning-Pickett-a-top-priority.html
looks like the packers are not going to make pickett available =)
Bummer
I’ll take Aubrayo Franklin from San Fran. He really came along this season.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
Frankly not interested in Tebow at all (not even 3rd round)
I just see much more value in bigger areas of need for us in the early rounds.
Oline: Pouncey, Iupati, Asamoah, Johnson, etc.
WR: Shipley, Alexander, etc.
DB: Haden, Thomas, Wilson, Arenas, Thompson, etc.
Dline: Williams, Odrick, Price, Neal, Alualu, etc.
On top of all that, I see Orton as our best medium term option going forward. I don’t see the need for Tebow at all and the reviews from the senior bowl are not changing my mind one bit.
I'm sorry to hear that
So you’d take which one of those players at 10 overall before Tebow? Just curious…
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
im hoping kyle wilson lasts to the second round, not sure if DB is something they will be looking for in the draft. i want this mostly since im a bsu fan.
by plainview88 on Jan 28, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
The majority of those guys are not worth the 10/11 pick
At that spot I’d only really be interested in either McClain or Haden. If they are gone (say to KC and CLE, respectively), then I’d prefer to trade down for Iupati, Pouncey or Dan Williams in the late 1st round.
The other guys listed (plus some others) are guys from the 2nd and 3rd rounds I feel fit some of our needs or at least I think would fit nicely in our team.
Sorry repost!
There is no way he will draft him due to the fact that McD likes to draft QB’s late and build them up like Shanny did with RB’s.
Any movement in history which attempts to perpetuate itself, becomes reactionary.
- Marshal Broz Tito
Sorry, but IMO
That’s a lame reason NOT to draft him, or to not predict us to draft him. When had Shanahan ever drafted a QB high? Ever? No. Then out of nowhere, here’s Jay Cutler! And don’t use Elway as an excuse, because Shanny had him as a head coach for what, five years?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
More specifically
McD was asked about this and stated that there is no position that he would not pick at any point in the draft – including the top 10 – if he felt that to be the best option for the Broncos.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Good post but disagree with Tebow.
I think Tebow has a chance to be a contributor in the NFL, most likely as an H-back/wildcat QB. If you are watching the senior bowl practices, remember 1 thing, the top QB’s are not there due to injury, so if you compare him to who is there you are comparing him to 3rd-4th round picks at best. I do not know how you think he has a strong arm, it is average at best and if you compact his delivery it might get weaker since he uses his windup to help generate power. I am hearing that 90-95% of scouts at the senior bowl rate him as a 4th round pick at best, that should tell you something.
If the Broncos were going to take a QB who was winner in college, I think McCoy in the 3rd-5th round would be a better pick. He has almost the same intangibles and I think a more NFL type skill set, though his size makes durability an issue. Overall I do not think the Broncos will draft a QB, unless someone falls and it is too good to pass up.
As for the 10/11 pick if Marshall is gone or looks like he is gone then I take Dez Bryant. If they are going to keep Marshall then draft the best defensive front 7 player. Sorry I do not have names I have not gotten into draft mode yet and spend only a little time studying the stuff and Tebow dominates what information I find. Plus i would not be surprised if the Broncos trade down and pick up more picks.
Really?
I have heard nothing about positive things regarding his arm strength. As far as I am aware, the only negative thing about Tebow’s game is his long release, which hasn’t ever been a problem for Philip Rivers, Brett Favre, Steve Young, or Vince Young. All of whom are at least Pro Bowlers, if not future hall of fame players. Combine that with Tebow’s intelligence and intangibles, he is an elite prospect to me. His footwork isn’t a concern with me because we have great coaching. I see him as a first round pick, and I honestly don’t believe there is any chance he will sneak out. Could be wrong though.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
Yes really!!
This is a league where if you have physical tools you get overrated in the draft. Look at Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Jamarcus Russell to name a few. All are QB’s who have strong arm causing them to be drafted way to high. If Tebow’s only problem was mechanics he would be rated as the top pick because of his intangibles not graded as the range of 5th-10th best QB prospect in the draft. Evidently Rivers mechanics did not hurt him since he went 4th overall. If it was just mechanics the same would be seen by Tebow. It is more than that, mostly arm strength and ability to adapt to a pro offense. I have heard some college types say Tebow has a fairly strong arm but not NFL people. And if they say his arm looks good at the senior bowl look at what they are comparing him to, Tony Pike?
I agree he will not make it out of the first round because some team will take a chance on him, but that does not mean the Broncos should take him at 10/11 with many more pressing needs facing them.
What more pressing needs did I not address in this mock offseason?
Please, enlighten me.
I disagree with your assessment of Tebow, based on things you’ve heard. You can’t make a legitimate argument to me based on what you’ve “heard”. Seeing is believing. I’ve seen Tebow, and I believe he can be an elite QB.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
I have seen Tebow play
I watched him for 4 years in college, I watch more college ball than pro ball, and his throws are wounded ducks, he pulls the ball down too quickly and gives up on plays and from the throws I have seen him make at the senior bowl I would be worried with him throwing a 10-15 yard out route to the sideline. His ball has pick 6 written all over it, due to lack of velocity and crispness of the pass. Now the reason I listen to other people and take their word on it is because I am not an NFL scout nor do I have the knowledge they do, but I do know what an average arm QB looks like and how they translate into the NFL.
As far a enlightening you, I feel the most pressing need is the front seven on defense and the first player you have them drafting is at the 80th pick. I feel they can get a more impact player at 10/11 than 80th. And if Marshall goes WR becomes more of a need.
Here is something else. McD feels this team is a few players away from being a contender, so drafting a project QB will not help him win now, he needs somebody who will have a good chance to be on the field this season to win. That does not sound like Tebow to me.
Mixed feelings on Tebow.
I think if McD can see Tebow as our QB of the future than I can accept that. I don’t know enough about him to really judge if he would be good in the NFL, but when I look at him play I envision him as a Big Ben type QB. At the very least I could see him being more effective on the 3rd and short since he’s a natural bruiser when rushing. I like taking Pouncey in the 2nd, but with him being the top center in a draft that isn’t exactly loaded at center I would be surprised if he was still around at the 45th overall. But it would be sweet if he was.
Personally I would prefer Doom and Orton to be signed before Marshall if we do indeed keep him.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make a new one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Jan 28, 2010 1:37 PM MST reply actions
I agree Tebow's intangibles
are absolutely great. I disagree with drafting him with the 10th overall pick because of the intangibles. And to circumvent your semi-rhetorical (false) dichotomy question, yes I would completely pass on drafting him before picking him 10th overall.
I have three basic reasons. First, a high first rounder has to have tangibles as well as intangibles. While Tebow has so many intangibles that “spending five minutes with him makes you a better person,” there are legitimate questions about how his skills will translate into the NFL. If he is better suited as a non-QB yet insists on being a QB, it will be detrimental to both him and the team, vis-a-vis Kordell Stewart (while not comparable on a talent scale, there still are parallels between Stewart and Tebow’s situations). Drafting someone for intangibles over tangibles is a luxury that is usually reserved for teams which are relatively complete (read Colts, Vikings, etc.).
Second, QB is arguably one of the least pressing issues facing the Broncos. Even if you regard Orton as merely serviceable, there are several positions (DL, LB, OL) that are well below serviceable and need to be addressed. If the best players to fill those needs are too much of a reach, you trade down.
Finally, as Emmett pointed out higher up the page, Tebow’s skills are not necessarily those valued by most NFL-style offenses. Based upon what we saw last year and extrapolating from the Patriot offense, I think McD will see Tebow as a project rather than a immediate contributor. I think there are several QBs later in the draft who seemingly are a closer fit (Pike, McCoy) to the offense than Tebow, and thus would likely contribute sooner.
To me, Tebow’s greatest contribution to the Broncos will be the potential value he adds to the trading the pick: someone who values Tebow at 10 and wants to get him before the Jags at 11 will trade up, giving the Broncos a lower 1st round and more picks in the 2/3 round.
oops -- editing clarification
I over-edited — I mean to say I disagree with drafting him at 10 because his intangibles are not enough.
Haha okay, so his intangibles are all he's working with?
Really, one of the best college players of all time? Come on now, now you’re just hating on the guy.
I don’t like Tebow ONLY because he is a great leader. He is a great player. You don’t even have to pull up tape to see that. He dominated the top level of collegiate defenses for the last four years.
QB is not the “least” pressing issue for the Broncos, but I agree it’s not as high on the priority list. Neither is McClain at MLB. What DL are you taking at 10 overall? Please don’t say Dan Williams or Terrence Cody. Offensive line I get, but I don’t see where in this mock draft I didn’t address the offensive line adequately. If you have your sights set on Iupati, then I can’t help you.
As for your last point, Emmett is a great analyst, he certainly knows what he’s talking about. Even he hasn’t ruled out Tebow, and if you knew Emmett well you’d know how against a QB he is. As far as Tebow being a project, what player did we draft last year that wasn’t a project? One guy pops out, and that’s Moreno. Even he is a project in a sense.
My point is that none of the reasons you’ve presented here are legitmate enough in my eyes to pass on a leader like Tebow. There has never been, and might never be another guy who possesses these kinds of intangibles. The Broncos don’t need to rebuild through the draft, though mocking it would be fun, but they need to add a big piece to the puzzle and an elite QB prospect would go a long way in the right direction.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
I actually agree with your last sentance
Too bad Tebow isn’t an elite QB prospect, huh?
You are seriously losing ground dude…DCJ put together a very well thought out post and you are just tossing it. “…none of the reasons you’ve presented here are legit[i]mate enough…to pass on a leader like Tebow.” WOW! I can’t believe you even typed that sentence. You have yet to provide a legitimate enough reason to draft the player at 10. Come talk after you do that please.
Tebow = NOT WORTH IT
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
You just won't listen or read what I'm saying
I have presented good reasons. The only reason people don’t think he will be good is because he has bad mechanics. I’m not suggesting he come in and start year one, I want him to learn for a year or maybe two, then be the top flight player I know he is capable of being.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
That isn't it
I listened to a point at which your whole point of this fanpost seems to be to make Tebow some sort of super human who we just need to give a chance. The MSM does that well enough already and I honestly expect more out of people who post on this site. That’s why I’m riding you…multiple people have spelled out a myriad of excellent reasons with evidence on why drafting him in the 1st round is a very poor decision (to say the least). You are clearly the one not listening.
CMON MAN!
The top flight player you “know” he is capable of being? How do you know this? What is it about you that makes you qualified to make that statement? Dude, you are a blogger…not an NFL scout, or NFL coach, etc etc.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Umm, debating a point
doesn’t mean exagerating the other’s position until it becomes a strawman argument. I never said the intangibles were all Tebowwas working with. What I really said was that his tangibles are great, but his tangibles need to both be better and to fit into the Broncos’ offense scheme for him to be worth the Broncos’ 10th overall pick. He has talent, he will be chosen in the draft, maybe even in the top ten. But that does not make him a good pick/fit with the Broncos. The great skills he showed at UF may actually translate better into Shanahan’s offense (predicated on rollouts) as opposed to McD’s (pocket passing). Square peg, round hole. If this is not a legitimate reason, then my apologies.
In my opinion, the Broncos need depth at most positions, not specific skill at one. Trading down rather to get more picks makes more sense than using the #10 on a specific player.
by DCJ on Jan 28, 2010 6:01 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I see what you're saying
But you honestly don’t believe Tebow can pick up this offense? He mastered Urban Meyer’s offense, so what tells you he can’t adjust to McD’s? I think putting a square peg into a round hole would be adding Mike Vick to this team as the starting QB. Tebow is not a scrambler in the NFL, he’s not fast enough. What his running ability brings is escape ability.
I hate to sound like a broken record here, but I can’t seem to find any reason why with good coaching (McD IS a good QB’s coach) Tebow cannot succeed in this offense. If Kyle Orton can do it, Tebow can do it. We shouldn’t hold it against Tebow that he ran a lot in college. That’s part of the offense he was recruited to run.
I agree that the Broncos need depth at other positions. The mock draft and offseason I presented didn’t stop with our first round pick. In fact, I feel this mock reflects some of my best work in terms of adding value and quality depth to key positions like center (Pouncey) guard (Carter) defensive line (Green, Pickett, Joseph) wide receiver (Decker) running back (Chester Taylor) among others.
In fact, I fail to see a position on this team that I did not upgrade through this mock offseason. Scratch that, we could use another pass rushing end/outside linebacker.
I see your point above about Colt McCoy being an option, and I am just as much on board for McCoy as I am for Tebow. Maybe McD thinks there is better value in the second or third with McCoy than in the first with Tebow, but when I hear Tebow speak I get jacked up.
Let me also clarify, I’m not presenting Tebow as an option to start immediately. I want Orton to start for us the next year, maybe two years. He will only get better. If Orton turns out to be a franchise quarterback, which I don’t really see because he doesn’t have the killer instinct you see in other elite QB’s, but IF he does, then I will accept this idea as a failure.
Tebow has everything you look for in an NFL quarterback prospect. His footwork? Yes, it’s extremely raw. His delivery? SLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOWW. I get that. Neither of those things cannot be coached. He has everything you cannot coach. If Tebow had great footwork and a quick delivery but he was a total douche bag and planned to hold out if he didn’t receive a max contract, would you rather select him then?
I realize QB is not the most pressing need on Denver’s team, but neither was RB a year ago. Neither was it when we added Cutler. In fact, historically when this team goes for need in the first round rather than someone who can come in, learn the system, and flourish later in his career, he epically fails. Dating back to 2000.
2000: Deltha O’Neal
2001: Willie Middlebrooks
2002: Ashley Lelie
2003: George Foster
2004: D.J. Williams
2005: none
2006: Jay Cutler
2007: Jarvis Moss
2008: Ryan Clady
2009: Moreno/Ayers
2010: ????
I see three names from the last decade that made an impact their rookie years in the first round that was worth writing about. The others? Busts because they were thrown to the wolves.
The thing I love about McDaniels is his willingness to sit younger players and let them develop. IE Alphonso Smith, Robert Ayers. He’s not going to rush them into something they’re not ready for. Enter Tebow, who is clearly not ready to start in the NFL. He will sit for a year, maybe two, and flourish as a third year pro, maybe even in his second year.
Just saying.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 9:16 PM MST up reply actions
Statistically Vick seems a pretty good analogy to Tebow
Tebow: 692 att, 2947 yards (4.26 ave), 57 rush TDs (4 years at Florida)
Vick: 553 att, 3954 yards (7.2 ave), 23 rush TDs (6 years of NFL in ATL)
223 att, 1216 yards (5.45 ave), 17 rush TDs (2 years at Virginia Tech)
In college, Tebow ran more often than Vick with a slightly lower average and had far more rushing TDs. For all I know, these stats may not mean anything meaningful at all, but at least on face value it seems to suggest they are at least comparable in scrambling/rushing.
I also acknowledge your points
And I do think your mock addressed many positions — I can not and will not argue that the rest of the choices are not interesting picks. My main argument is that I believe the 10th overall pick has more value to the Broncos if it is turned into more picks later in the draft than being spent on any specific player. I’d rather see the 10th turned into the 20th-30th pick with a some 2nd/3rd rounds picks.
Philosophically, I see picks 1-10 as places to pick up guaranteed blue-chip, contribute right now type players. Later first round picks are guys who have something to learn and need to develop, but may be contributing later in the year. The last ten draft choices illustrate this perfectly. Concentrate on the guy at the top: O’Neal was a definite reach when drafted and he was drafted to play a position where he had a lot of learning to do. He failed to pick it up well enough to contribute during his tenure as a Bronco, and while he did eventually become a decent player he is labelled a bust because he never reached the level of play a first round choice should have (especially with the Broncos). In my opinion, while the O’Neal pick was the biggest fail, 5 of the first 8 picks were total head-slappers (and I include Mr. Cutler in that list — I would have been quite happy with Plummer at QB for the next 4-5 years, but unfortunately Shanahan wasn’t).
Addressing Tebow at 10 (which is ultimately what this is about), you can see where our disparate takes on him lie. I think we are pretty much in agreement about his intangible and skills, although I might be a bit more skeptical of the latter than you are. I’m sure he will be able to academically understand the offense, less sanguine about how well he will execute it. And don’t make a mistake about it: while Tebow was learning Meyer’s offense, Meyer was also tailoring the offense to him. Taking Tebow would require McD to alter his offense as well, the major question would be how much it would have to change.
I also agree that RB was not a pressing need last year, but Moreno’s modified BPA*need index rated him out over any other pick, and he did make major contributions last year (despite unrealistic expectations from some quarters).
I think the main difference between us really seems to be you’re willing to pay top ten dollars to develop a fellow for the next 2-3 years and hope that he contributes, while I think that is a bad business model — you invest heavily in a player to get 1 or 2 years of top-flight play before you risk losing him to free-agency. I think that’s why we seem so far apart on this specific choice. Perhaps we shall just have to agree to disagree.
PS. Where did the Vick reference come from? Let me go on record right now as saying I think Vick would be a horrible choice for the Broncos. If the choice was draft Tebow or hire Vick, I’d be right beside you on the Tebow wagon.
Dude
Let’s break this down nice and easy:
1. Urban Meyer offense != Josh McDaniels offense…again…please compare apples to apples
2. Tebow isn’t anything in the NFL cause he’s not even drafted yet…don’t label him as “not a scrambler in the NFL…” cause you sir, have no clue on that.
3. Tebow != Orton
a. Tebow = college QB
i. Tebow = long wounded ducks
ii. Tebow = no quick decision making
iii. Tebow = fumbled snaps under center
b. Orton = NFL QB
i. Orton = Long throws aren’t super zippy, but they get there with a nice spiral
ii. Orton = Superior decision making proven and true
iii. Orton = Shotgun, under center…its all money twice on Sundays to this guy
4. Your best work??? Stop digging man…the hole is deep enough.
5. Speaking is not an NFL trait that anyone cares about for their QBs. I’m glad he gets you jacked up, but Martin Luther King, Jr. wouldn’t make a good NFL QB either.
6. Tell me again, what is it that Tebow has that is “everything you look for” in an NFL QB? I missed the boat on that one…you have yet to provide such evidence other than his skills in the areas of oration.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Tebow...are you serious?
I love the guy, think he is a great leader but there is NO way he is a top 10 pick as a QB in the NFL! He has never taken a snap under center, he has a VERY long deliver and the ball flails out of his hand when he throws, showing there are serious questions about his arm strength. McDaniels is a system guy and Tebow is the antithesis to his “system QB”. First, he likes them big (6"4" or taller) and with big arms and guys that go through their reads while in the pocket . Brady and Cassell both have VERY big arms, Cassell was drafted in baseball out of HS. People talk about Ortons arm, but it is above average and he can make EVERY throw in the NFL. Out of HS Orton was rated as the number one QB in the country in arm strength. I have been watching the Senior Bowl highlights and updates and it is obvious that Tebow cant make EVERY throw the NFL will ask for, especially the deep out. Not gonna happen and I can gurantee that.
I do like Pouncey and I love the Decker pick but I think the interior needs to be addressed 1st and foremost, the way Iupati is performing at the Senior Bowl…I wouldn’t mind going after him with the 10th pick…every report I have heard says he is the only player at the Senior Bowl that is a lock for NFL success!
Sorry - danged computer. Anyway - Just so we're clear
I rarely rule players in or out, lacking the inside info that goes into making those decisions. The exceptions have usually been players like Rey M, who, although I commented several times that I thought he would be a very good NFL player, I also knew that choosing him would seem to go against nearly everything that I know of Josh McD’s choices and preferences over the years.
I have strong doubts that we’ll see Tebow in Broncos training camp. There are just too many issues against him. McD likes a QB 6’4 – 6’6, Tebow is 6’3. McD prefers a QB with experience both in the ‘gun and under center – Tebow has almost none under center, and this Monday was embarrassing for him when he tried. As far as this issue of what his arm strength is, let me say this: I read lots of pro football folks arguing that he has arm strength issue from last year all the way to this morning, so I can’t agree that ‘no one’ believes that he can make every throw. He also has a habit of a wobbly ball, and that’s been mentioned quite a lot as well. Other analysts feel that his arm strength is OK to good, so it’s a debated area.
With all of this said, would I welcome him as a Broncos if he is chosen? Sure, of course. McD/Xan have access to about 400 times the info I do and are much football smarter than I, and I know that. By the way, thanks for the comment/compliment, but I don’t think that I’m an expert analyst – just an info geek who used to put human diagnostic puzzles together for a living. You learn as you go….there aren’t many experts in any field, and very, very few of those who really are would use that term – there’s just too much to learn.
Tebow will be a puzzle for a lot of teams, though, and I do look forward to seeing that play out. As I do with almost every player, I wish the young man well.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Jan 28, 2010 3:10 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I like your last sentences.
If Tebow is to be a puzzle for ANY NFL team, or even a lot of NFL teams, why not give him the best chance to succeed by putting him in this offense? He was rumored also to be of interest to the Patriots, who run the same offense we do pretty much, so why don’t we come up in the discussion? Apparently we do, actually, because an NFL Net analyst (can’t remember which) said “Broncos” when asked a good fit for Tebow.
I don’t know, maybe I’m way off base here. I know Tebow is an inch shorter than McD’s QB’s, but he’s got every other quality this team looks for in a player.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe - I'm not so sure
For those who get Insider from ESPN, here’s a link that I thought was a pretty fair and balanced discussion of Tebow. It’s from KC Joyner, who some love and some hate, but who I tend to respect. His first point dealt with longer passes, which I know you’ve supported Tebow on. I can see why, but there’s an issue there:
He was 4-for-16 on go routes, but two of those completions came via blown coverages. Those don’t happen anywhere nearly as often in the pros as they do in college, and a 2-for-14 non-blown-coverage showing on that route type simply wouldn’t cut it at the next level.
One of his other points is that statistically, Tebow has trouble with decision-making. As you know, this is one of the McD Evil Things.
Tebow also fared very poorly in the bad-decision metric. This metric gauges how many times a quarterback makes a mistake with the ball that leads either to a turnover or a near turnover (dropped interception, fumble that his team recovers, etc.). Tebow’s 3.4 percent rate here isn’t quite in Jay Cutler territory, but it would rank near the bottom of the league in most seasons.
That one is a huge Ouch as far as draft-ability for Denver. The final summary was this:
1. Tebow has a really elongated throwing motion that hasn’t improved even with extensive coaching.
2. He tends to lock onto receivers.
3. He usually doesn’t look off the safety.
4. He doesn’t read blitzes or other pass-rushing tricks very well.
5. The step forward he takes on play-action fakes is something he almost certainly will not be able to do in the NFL.
6. He is very uncomfortable working in a pocket environment.
Any one of these on its own is a significant weakness, but six are simply too much for anyone to overcome in a single offseason.
So, perhaps we can agree that if Denver takes him, it is on a project basis. I’d argue, right now, that we don’t have the roster space for that, but you could go the other road and I’d respect it. What we can probably agree on is that if Tom Brandstater isn’t ready to move into the #2 slot, the Broncos need is for a backup who does have experience.
I’m not taking Joyner’s work as gospel. I do note that most of what he’s talked about, I’ve read multiple other places. I just thought that it was a good summary, and there were parts of it that were very pro-Tebow, if you read the whole article. I hope this is helpful.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Jan 28, 2010 3:37 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
Nice post
Again, I don’t think Tebow is a starter from the moment he steps into dove valley. The things mentioned here would concern me if this team were planning to throw him to the wolves from day one, but that’s not going to be the plan. It’s rare for McD to start any rookies, let alone a quarterback.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
Tebow?
I’m finding it difficult to take your draft topics seriously when you come up with stuff like this. It’s not personal, I just don’t think this is a particularly serious topic.
Tebow has some value but it’s hard to see a good fit in our offense. He’s not out of question but the real problem is when. I see him as rating around a 3rd, but he might go higher to someone who has the luxury of taking a wildcat type of player. Our problem is in foregoing other needs that can be filled at the point where he would go. His value to the outlier team that picks him is higher than what we can afford. His consensus value is lower.
We can’t afford flyers on wildcats. It’s a little like desert for a starving man, he needs nutritious food before he can think about desert. It’s not so much as usage question, since the nutritious metaphor is arbitrary, it’s because his value is too rich for us in the role he would play. It’s what we wouldn’t be doing that hurts a Tebow choice.
I would be willing to draft him in the 3rd as a TE/FB/wildcat. His upper range might go all the way up to the late 2nd but that’s being optimistic.
no goats, no glory.
by Colinski on Jan 28, 2010 4:31 PM MST reply actions 4 recs
+10000000000000000000000000000000000
This…read it twice if you need to Sayre.
It is hard to take your mock drafts seriously when they are out on such a limb
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Not happening man
You are a staff member of my favorite site on the Internet. I care about what my other brothers and sisters in Bronco Country hear about here and I will personally hold you accountable for providing reasoned content to us. If I feel strongly against what you post, I’ll point it out because people NEED to hear both sides, not just yours.
Don’t let that stop you from posting just expect to be pressed to back up your opinions when you leap off the ledge into the wild blue yonder.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Like it or not, Tebow to Denver IS a serious possibility
Nothing personal on my part either, but anyone who thinks Tebow is only as good as a third round draft pick shouldn’t be taken seriously either. We both have our own opinions. I don’t take it personal that you don’t take this seriously, but I’m dead serious. I will be legitimately disappointed if we don’t draft Tebow, and three years down the road, every Bronco fan will too.
I don’t see Tebow as a “wildcat” player, and to assume that I picked him as a luxury “wildcat” player is out of the question. I don’t assume him as a wildcat, I would fully intend on him as the quarterback of the future. Period. IMO, he is no more a wildcat option than Ben Roethlisberger, who has escape-ability but is not especially fast.
You say we forego other needs, but I fail to see another position on the team where we struggled as much as we did in the passing game. Like I said in the article, I think Orton has done an admirable job here in Denver, but his games are won (as a game manager) in the first three quarters. With Tebow, you’re never out of it.
And don’t think I assume he will be a first year starter, which is a misconception apparently across this board. I envision Tebow learning for a year, maybe two at the most behind Mr. Orton and growing as a player off the field and in his fundamentals before he even takes a snap for us.
This is a pick we must make. Tebow is going to be too valuable to a team, hopefully the Broncos, to pass on. If you think Tebow is at best a late second round pick, then I can tell you right now you are wrong. I’m sorry. If he falls to the third round and the Broncos DON’T take him, I will seriously consider the value McDaniels places on character.
Tebow is EVERYTHING McDaniels wants in a player. He is versaitle. He is tough. He is smart. He is not only a leader on the field, he is a leader off of it. He is a player you can build around. He has a strong arm. He is accurate in the short range. He throws a catchable deep ball. The only thing he needs to improve upon is his throwing motion, which over a year or two of coaching will be absolutely mastered, especially with Tebow’s work ethic.
Think what you want about Tebow, and if you don’t take it seriously, I’d suggest not even clicking on my mocks the rest of the offseason, because until I am 100% certain it is out of the quesiton, he is going to be my pick. If I were building a team, this is the guy I would want to start it with.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
I'll agree with one thing
If he falls to the third he could be worth it, but not before that.
One thing I know for sure - I'm usually wrong.
"This is a pick we must make."
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
You really are so sure McClain and Haden will be gone?
I think that is unlikley. There is only 10 picks before us, no matter how many ‘top ten picks’
between mcclain haden and bryant one will be there
CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!
Yes, I'm pretty sure
Based on any ranking system, either will be gone by the 9th pick. As for Bryant, I don’t see him as valuable as Tebow, but I wouldn’t be upset by drafting him.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 6:23 PM MST up reply actions
Each year, DL, OT and QB seem to take up the majority of the first picks
And, each year the mocks (not this one, I’m just making a general observation here) ignore that fact. There will be exceptions, certainly, but for the most part, I think that we’ve got at least a 50/50 shot at Haden or McClain. I’d like to have either – they look like excellent prospects. This assumes, of course, that we won’t trade down (there’s a distinct possibility that we will) or get additional 1st round picks from Marshall or some other such deal.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
So are you saying
If we traded for an additional 1st rounder via a Marshall trade, that you would support the drafting of Tebow at 10?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 6:23 PM MST up reply actions
I'm sorry, are you asking me, my friend?
If so, the answer is absolutely not. I don’t see this in any way similar to the circumstance that led to the drafting of Moreno with our first pick last year, where I could see if once we had the extra pick: Moreno could come in right away, we are not immediately starting QB short (to the extent that we need a third, he has to be experienced, IMO), we have several far more pressing needs and I don’t see Tebow, if at all, as better than a third round value.
Honestly, this has become sort of a one note song, so to speak.I wish I could support you more on this, but I really don’t see Tebow as a valuable choice. He’s got too many problems with his game – I understand, of course, that you and I see that differently, but while I value your opinions in general (Love the Dexter McCluster pick on other drafts, btw), I don’t see a realistic role for Tebow in Denver. He’s an extra inexperienced rookie while we need someone with some time in grade, I’m unsold on his skillset working out in the NFL at all as a QB, he has been terrible under center so far and I don’t like his mechanics at all, feet or hands. I’ve listed his weaknesses as I see them and I’m not going to keep badgering this one. Sorry, but we should just agree to disagree. I would consider Tebow to be a waste of a pick at a time when reloading nearly the entire team is on the agenda (between last year and this upcoming season). I’d love to see Haden or McClain – or trading down.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Jan 28, 2010 6:37 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
10th or 11th??
has it been decided if wich pick we get???
I’m not sold on taking Tebow with our 1st pick. If he’s still there in the 2nd round then MAYBE only if Brandon Spikes is not available. I liked your previous mock draft better.
I highly doubt McClain. Haden and Iupati will all be gone but I also thought Tyson Jackson would be available.
by Cali_BroncosFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:49 PM MST reply actions
That will be decided at the combine
Yeah, you bring up a good point about Tyson Jackson. We ALL assumed he’d be there at 12 last year before the Chiefs rumor came about a day or two before the draft. I think that’s one of the reasons our draft went somewhat awry last year. McDaniels REALLY wanted Jackson, and it seemed he’d planned on getting him with our first pick.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 6:25 PM MST up reply actions
There will be a coin toss between Denver and Jacksonville
As long as the Tebow questions, such as it is, has taken up a lot of this thread, I wanted to add the info from The Sporting News Daily. I add this without prejudice either way. Their comment for today was:
Florida’s quarterback Tim Tebow has had mechanics problems that have been apparent all week. Yesterday, however, his difficulty with his mental struggles were even more apparent. He was consistently late on his throws, especially on deep routes. He struggled to locate his receivers at the top of this drop back, and he double-clutched almost every time before throwing the ball downfield, telegraphing his passes badly.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Again, any QB goes through this kind of stuff
I should think it a high mark on Tebow’s part that he is being held to a “perfect” standard by the scouts. He is not perfect, but I still condone drafting him because we have excellent coaching at the position.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 6:27 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not so sure that he's being held to any standard that others are not
I’ve appreciated Scott Wright’s work. This is what he pointed out – and please consider that he sees Tebow going in the first round, to NE:
Whether it be his throwing motion, footwork, taking snaps from under center, reading coverages or going through progressions there is just a laundry list of things he will have to work on. The bottom line is Tebow’s probably 2-3 years away from being able to run an NFL offense
That’s a lot of stuff to fix, even if you believe that he will do so. Again – I think that the Broncos have much more immediate problems and that they need to concentrate on fixing them before taking on another major project QB (I’m going to consider Brandstater as a project, just because I’ve seen so little of him since TC).
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
To be fair though,
This IS the first time in his football career he has had to do ANY of this stuff. I realize he didn’t come from a pro style offense, and I realize his flaws. To me, he is one or two years away from starting, and I acknowledge that. I think the only other position I could see the Broncos passing on him for at 10 overall is with McClain (you know my stance there on whether or not he’ll be available), Dez Bryant, or Iupati. McClain would be phenomenal value, Bryant has been out of football, and Iupati would be a reach.
Maybe the best option is to trade down. IMO, Tebow is the best option as of now. I seem to remember the Chargers taking a three year project back in 2004, and that worked out pretty well for them too.
I know you and I have butt heads on the QB talk before, and I respect your opinion greatly. I know Tebow’s weaknesses, but I refuse to believe he cannot be corrected. Three of my most respected NFL analysts in Charles Davis, Mike Mayock, and Mike Lombardi all think Tebow is a good fit for the Broncos. That’s not what’s shaped my opinion of him, but there are those out there who see my point of view on this as well.
I think McDaniels’ role as an innovative offensive mind, and a quarterback guru make Tebow an ideal fit for this offense. His footwork and throwing motion can be worked on over the next couple of years, and his problems coming out of center don’t concern me so much because our offense seems about 60-40 at worse coming from shotgun-under center.
Reading coverages is something that will be a negative on EVERY prospect’s scouting report.
Again, I see your points here, but I am willing to give Tebow a shot here.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 28, 2010 7:00 PM MST up reply actions
No worries
There is also a factor that none of the three listed (All of whom I also appreciate and respect), with the possible exception of Lombardi, who was with the Broncos organization and seems to be remarkably well-liked within the football community: The Brandstater factor. Is he just sort of coming along slowly? Has he dazzled and they are not tipping their hand before the draft? Does he look like a bust-in-making?
If he’s dazzling them, everything changes: Orton’s contract, training camp, the draft – all of it would be changed. If he dazzles, they may not even need a third option (although most teams carry one). The same is true if for some reason they just don’t see him in their plans other than as a last resort – suddenly, Tebow or a different QB (and at that point, the arguments about who will see friends threatening each other with the Final Sanction) would become something of a necessity. However, if it’s that middle of the road thing – If he’s in that ‘coming along as expected’ category, the need for an experienced backup may be much higher – and we’ll find that out in free agency.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Why dot we just pick Tebow in the third if we really want him?
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Not too sure yet
I’m sure this has already been mentioned, but I think as far as character goes, you might not find a better example than Tim Tebow in this draft. I truly believe if you have players that display great character you can go far. However, I don’t think Tebow is what we need. I don’t see K.O. as the long term answer, but I’d like him to get another year under his belt and try to prove me wrong. If Tebow were available in the latter part of the 2nd round or maybe the 3rd, that woudn’t be too bad. But picking him at # 10 or 11 is a too much of a reach for my taste. I think there are more pressing needs to be met with this pick, like WR if Marshall is in fact traded or DL
Tebow
Finally someone that agrees with me. I love the idea of getting Tim Tebow in our first round. I keep saying, “I hope one team gives a chance to Tebow”… and I really hope the Broncos do. Nobody said Vince Young was going to make in the NFL as a QB and look at him now. Rookie of the Year award and took his team to playoffs his rookie year and he probably would’ve done it again this year if would’ve started the year off. Same thing with Kerry Collins, nobody said he be a good QB and now look at him, he’s lasted 15+ years in the NFL. If the Broncos draft him I will be soooo happy that day! Do I actually think they’ll draft him? No. This is why, McD isn’t a high risk coach. I think Tebow is a Low/Medium Risk = High Reward player. McD sees him as a High Risk = High Reward player and that high risk is too much for him. I think with the right coaching and being under the same system for at least three years he can really thrive as a QB.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like Kyle Orton but do I think he’s our future? No. Thus, bring in Tim Tebow. Kyle Orton is a reliable QB, but that’s it. Not really a strong arm, (Tim Tebow does). Is Orton a leader, ah I don’t know about that it’s debatable (Tebow has Two Championships under his belt). Kyle Orton is tough when he played his ankle injury but we lost the Redskin game because he left the game and didn’t come back. Tim Tebow is a warrior and has played with a BROKEN ARM! What more do I need to say? Let Kyle Orton start the season and keep Tebow as his back up. The minute we lose faith in Orton it’s time to bring in the Rookie and the Tim Tebow era as a Bronco will begin.
There's lots of ways to lose your life. All at once............or one day at a time.
Vince Young is not a good QB
VY is one of the bottom 5 starting QBs in the NFL. He runs a completely dumbed down offense, which only works because he has the best RB in the NFL, and a top 5 O-line surrounding him. He couldnt beat out Kerry Collins as starting QB. They also have a very good defense, yet still they plod around in medicority. The perfect example of why NOT to waste a high 1st round pick on VY.
I think the recent senior bowl reports seal it for me. All the things folks questioned about him are turning about to be very true.
If he falls to the late 2nd/3rd, he might be worth a flyer as a project. As a 1st rounder, he’s far too risky for a multi-million contract and our other more pressing needs.
On Tebow
Sayre…I’m not a draft expert, but the guys at the following links are:
http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2010.php
http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl.php
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-Scouting-Department.html
http://draftguys.com/
I have read all of their Senior Bowl coverage…and Tebow looks bad, not like a guy who can play QB.
I’m not gonna berate you for sticking to your guns, you do a good job with all these posts, I just would not like the pick based on all the stuff I have been reading.
Tweeting via @jtkimbell
Sayre...
Fire off a new mock draft and leave this one behind, there’s just too much pain in these posts. You’ll lose any passion you had for writing by trying to defend this opinion! Let’s get back to the Rolando McClain/Dez Bryant mocks. This team has a ton of wholes and for now, we don’t need an elite QB because we’re not going anywhere soon.
by legendarywalton on Jan 30, 2010 1:21 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
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