Does Brandon Marshall to the Bucs Makes Sense for Both Parties?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:08 AM MST
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PrintJust going through my routine site check this morning, and as per usual I stumbled upon ESPN's Rumor Central, only to find yet another Brandon Marshall trade destination, and this time it may make some kind of sense.
Though some on this site have already suggested Brandon to the Buccaneers, I think a trade between Denver and Tampa Bay makes a lot of sense on both accounts.
The Buccaneers are poised to lose leading receiver Antonio Bryant as an unrestricted free agent, and they have absolutely nothing behind him on the depth chart to eventually be a replacement. While the post over at the Tampa Tribune suggests that:
Although he is a tremendous talent, every NFL team knows Marshall wants out of Denver (and vice-versa), so any team interested in him will not have to give up something significant, like a first round pick.
We all know that to be false. I am not suggesting Denver requires Tampa to surrender the 3rd pick in the draft, as that would be unwise on Denver's part, but the Buccaneers have 10 total picks in the up-coming draft, two of which come in the second round.
If you cannot already see where I'm going with this, here is my trade proposal:
Brandon Marshall to Tampa Bay for Two 2nd-round picks (35th, 42nd overall) and 5th-round pick
This trade makes sense to me on multiple levels. The Buccaneers have to be considered a legitimate landing spot for Marshall because they have 10 draft picks, first and foremost. They also have a huge need at the receiver position. This trade would also allow Marshall to return to his beloved state of Florida, but it also gives the Broncos the opportunity to trade him to a far worse situation than he has here in Denver (for whatever that's worth).
Will he get his money? Absolutely, but all joking aside, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are a complete joke as of this moment in time. They do have a quarterback of the future they really like in Josh Freeman, and he needs some bigger targets being that he is a bigger quarterback.
This trade makes sense for the Broncos because they rid of a headache, and they have a lot more flexibility in free agency (Denver Post reports the Broncos want this deal done shortly after March 5th free agency start) and the draft.
As many of you know, I've officially jumped on the Tim Tebow train, and while I feel the Broncos should take him while they can get him, I don't rule out the possibility of him being there later when they pick. I simply view Tebow's intangibles as too valuable to let sneak out of the first round, but I will never say never.
If Denver is facing a guy like Rolando McClain, Dez Bryant, or Sam Bradford in the first round, I would absolutely promote going after one. In fact, my final draft board will most definitely have those guys rated higher than Tebow, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't get him later if we can.
If all three of those players are unavailable, there is one player and one player alone I would be understanding of the Broncos taking over Tebow in the first round, and that is guard Mike Iupati of Idaho. Iupati has been one of the more impressive players at the Senior Bowl practices, and many on this site already wanted him before that.
If Denver makes this Marshall trade, they will be far more equipped and prepared for the 2010 draft which is being considered one of the best of all time. They would hold the 10th/11th, 35th, 42nd/44th, and 45th picks in the first two rounds.
Four picks in the top 45 would go a long way to improving this team for the better in the long run. If Denver didn't go after Tebow in the first round, I could see a quartet of picks on the first two days of the draft as follows:
1. Mike Iupati, G, Idaho
2. Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
3. Tim Tebow, QB, Florida (oddly enough, ranked 42nd on CBSSports.com's NFL Draft player rankings)
4. Arrelious Benn, WR, Illinois
Either way, I feel it is important that the Broncos do make a quick decision on Marshall, and adding two more second round picks would be an ideal way for the Broncos to move on. For all the mock draft fanatics like myself out there, here is another look at a few potential scenarios that could materialize if this trade were made.
1. Rolando McClain, LB, Alabama
2. Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
3. Brandon LaFell, WR, LSU
4. Jon Asamoah, G, Illinois
1. Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State
2. Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
3. Brandon Graham, DE/OLB, Michigan
4. Colt McCoy, QB, Texas
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Why so?
You think he’s happy with the Broncos and vice-versa?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:14 AM MST up reply actions
Because Denver holds all the cards
No need to trade him if they dont want.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
That's true, but you're saying that the Broncos wouldn't be tempted by two second rounders and a fifth?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 29, 2010 9:20 AM MST up reply actions
Possibly.. maybe even probably..
But I hope they know what they’re doing.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I'm sure they got it under control.
They are probably hearing offers left and right for Brandon. He’s a commodity with lots of market value. The Broncos will get a great deal for him or they’ll keep him and sign him and get production for years to come, anyways. It’s gonna work out well for us, I believe.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 29, 2010 9:42 AM MST up reply actions
No. It depends on their opinion on BMarsh, not on 2x2 offered
Because if Broncos believe BMarsh will be all he can be on the field, there is no price they will accept. If he stays off the police blotter and shows up for every game motivated, two 1st rounders are not enough to compensate for him. If he plays to his talent, he will be immovable, because there is no price that will be enough.
But if the Broncos think he is rotten, then his trade value will never be better and he needs to be traded now – it is only a question of price.
I understand that
But I believe they might want to.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:50 AM MST up reply actions
I totally agree.
I have pretty much set my mindset to accept the idea that Marshall may indeed be off to another team this next season. So… with that idea in mind, at least in my opinion, I believe this sounds like the absolute best deal out there. I don’t know about for the Bucs, but I love it for us, and the Bucs might really want Marshall and actually do this trade.
If Tebow (and by the way, I am on his bandwagon, too) does fall to Denver somewhere in the draft, I think we take him. I mean, I don’t know if we would for sure, but I think we should. And also, if we can get four picks in the first 45 picks of the draft, that would allow us to do so many different things, it would be a very fun draft. Pouncey, Benn, and Tebow? If something similar to that were to happen I would be very excited.
Again, I still wish Marshall didn’t have all of his problems, and that we could just keep him. But if he leaves, I am totally ready for it. And Orton – I really like the guy and he’s starting to seem like our solution at QB, but passing on Tebow may not be the best idea, even if he sits for a season or two.
by NxtYrNvrArrives on Jan 29, 2010 1:34 PM MST up reply actions
He's probably not happy.
But that doesn’t mean we should trade him. He performed great last year once he got his act together. We won’t find a better receiver that isn’t named Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson. Let the team work out a deal and keep him
Because it's become tiresome
He's always performed great...
I think we’re getting certain facts mixed up w/Marshall. There is no denying he’s had run in w/the law but we forget its mainly from a former girlfriend that was just as much to blame for his issues. They’re no longer together and I think it starts there.
To stay on point, the beginning of the season was really a means of trying to force himself a. out of Denver or b. a pay raise. We all disagree w/the method of A but this won’t be the first or the last time this happens to ANY team.
If Marshall were to go to Florida, he won’t finish his career w/o any mishaps because that state for some reason attracts trouble. Whether its the party scene or the company he keeps.
On a football standpoint, Marshall will be a tremendous addition to any if not every team. That is his true value and that doubles w/his ability to produce additional income in marketing as he continues to be the playmaker we’re all excited about here.
Say hello to my fast...
Maybe, but his value will never be higher
I don’t know that he got his act together like you say, really, but I would love to have him back.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
My only problem is if Marshall is that unhappy with the Broncos then he will not put out 100% (alia NE Moss). You know he will not get the $80 million Fitzgerald money because he has two counts against him with the commish.
He wasn't happy last year and gave all he had. Let's not forget
Mr. Bowlen more or less promised him a new contract, IIRC
Because it's become tiresome
And he still quit on the team late in the year.
That’s why I think money is not the issue. I’ve said all along that if it’s strictly a contract issue, then re-sign him. If he’s gonna be a cancer to the locker room though, we gotta move him.
by Kgrone on Jan 29, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
i disagree that he quit on the team...
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 29, 2010 6:20 PM MST up reply actions
He didn’t quit. He got hurt and wanted to enter the offseason as healthy as possible.
When he played hurt in 2008, the Broncos used that against him when he asked for a new deal and everyone said, "well Brandon has legal issues and a major hip injury" to overcome. Somehow BM got labeled injury prone, even though he has missed fewer games than Eddie Royal has the last two season. Not sure why Eddie gets a free pass at MHR for getting hurt and generally playing like crap in 2009. I guess it’s because, although he sucked, he was still a “team player”.
Marshall did the smart thing; he made it to the offseason healthy in his contract year.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I would rather have Eddie on my team than Brandon any day.
And yes, BM did quit. That was the biggest game of the season, and he wanted to sit out. You’re saying he was worrying about ruining his off-season with a hamstring?? He’s at the pro-bowl right?
You are all over Orton 24/7, but that guy played after an open dislocation in his finger, and 2 sprained ankles. If I were Brandon, I wouldn’t be able to look Orton in the eyes and tell him I gave it my all.
So you're saying...
that Marshall didn’t quit on the team but that Clady and nearly everyone else on the team did. It seems like you have things a little backwards here.
I’m saying Brandon did what was best for himself. He made the smart move to make it to the offseason healthy.
Brandon has always been a me first player. But for Denver, that worked because he would get 100+ catches per season, which is a very high goal.
His individual goal lined up well with something that helps the team.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Yeah, it's REALLY helped us over the last three years
The only thing his catches are going to help us with is continuing our rebuilding project.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 30, 2010 9:05 AM MST up reply actions
I also agree with this
If Denver can find a way to keep Marshall, that would be great. But if his attitude still remains, and by that I mean being the stereotypical selfish NFL player, than if he goes, it’s fine by me, especially if we get a deal like the one above.
by NxtYrNvrArrives on Jan 29, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
If any trade involving Marshall is to happen, this one is my favorite. +1
Two second rounders and a fifth is exactly what the doctor ordered. I think that the perfect range for picks, this season, is between 20 and 50. We won’t have to pay top ten draft money at those spots and the chances of killing us with dead money down the road is less, while at the same time, the depth of talent at those spots is still really high and we could snag some guys who have fallen down the boards if they’ll help our team. Having three picks in that range is great. I agree wholeheartedly with you on this mock. The Bucs definitely make sense.
I also think it’s cool that you have Pouncey in all three scenarios. That guy is growing on me, as well.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
I still think New England makes more sense
Tampa isnt a brandon Marshall away from being a conteder. New England on the other hand is.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
No
New England isn’t a contender. They’re about to experience turnover that we have never seen before. Besides, regardless of the bounty, you don’t trade w/in the Conference.
Say hello to my fast...
Thats a blind statement
No offense. With no facts to back it up. FA hasnt even started yet. SO unless your sitting in the room with BB you have no idea who will and wont be back yet. Realzing they have some restricted FA’s we still dont know who is going to be resigned and let go.
Thats like a fan of another team looking at our FA’s saying were about to see a ton of turnover.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Just because they aren't one player away from being a contender doesn't mean they don't want to improve their WR corp.
Their best option is to get Marshall, actually, because there are no other receivers on the market that are like BMarsh. If they want a top tier receiver, they better act fast and get him now, because he won’t be available after a few months.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 29, 2010 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
You're right
But they’re not working on a 1 yr plan to get back to winning. They knew it would a long term deal.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
but its not about the money
I keep reading about how much we won’t have to pay but the truth is that this year is an uncapped year. I expect owners to be cheaper this year (except for Snyder, Jones and Davis) and believe this will shape up the future CBA (collective bargaining agreement). I think the players will realize during this offseason how lucky they are for the opportunity to play in the NFL. Just my 2 cents but in a time of recession, I know I wouldn’t have a problem holding a clipboard at 100k a year for 4 years.
Say hello to my fast...
haha, this is true.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 29, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think anyone thinks it's about the money
It’s about the bridges that have been burned by Marshall with the Broncos. I think…If not, he should already have a contract in place.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks kb
So do you think we should trade down from 10 then also? I think if Iupati is our main target, or a guy like Bradford, McClain, or Tebow, or whoever, I think we’ll need to stay put.
I love Pouncey. I think it’s essential that we draft him.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, with the way Iupati is moving up the boards, I think we stay put to take him.
Especially, if we get two more second rounders.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 29, 2010 10:52 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
why would this be unwise again? we're not playing the 'value' card again are we?
“I am not suggesting Denver requires Tampa to surrender the 3rd pick in the draft, as that would be unwise on Denver’s part, "
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 29, 2010 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
I'll keep saying it until you guys are all sick of me
trading away top level NFL proven players for nothing but draft picks is a very bad idea. The draft is a gamble. It’s fun to fantasize about having all of these draft picks….but they do not work out more often than succeed, and that’s for every team. If we trade him, and I don’t want to, we need proven NFL players and maybe a mix of picks. To trade Marshall (and if some get their wish Scheff and Hillis and now maybe Doom) for nothing but draft picks will set us back years in my opinion.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
by bonaire on Jan 29, 2010 9:23 AM MST reply actions 5 recs
+ 1
I agree with you
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I agree
but the reality is that if we keep Marshall for upcoming year and cannot resign him, well what then? The beauty in trading Marshall, regardless the bounty, it allows new bodies w/no NFL experience to be molded in the vision of this current regime we have in place. Its why Cutler wanted out, its why Marshall attempted to play his hand out, and its why Scheffler maybe out (moreso not fitting the scheme though he did his fair share in blocking).
I have not reviewed the 2nd round picks that would be made available from Tampa’s end but I would either: A. swap firsts and a 3rd B. Two 2nd rounders and a 4th. C. 3rd this year and a 1st next year.
What I love about option A. is that if there is a player Denver really wants and Tampa is comfortable neglecting a specific immediate need (though Marshall fills a void from an “expected” departure of Bryant), we can keep that pick. More likely though, I can see Denver trading that very pick to another team as it collects additional picks.
Option B is more doable on both ends but I like to think Denver can get more and base that statement solely on Marshall’s ability to take over a game such as Dallas and NYGiants (the Colts game is meaningless as his record setting day was followed by a loss).
Option C is one I’d be more comfortable with simply because I’d imagine that pick being in the top 7 next year as Tampa’s regime has much work to do as their QB enters his 2nd season w/much learning to do.
Say hello to my fast...
Question from ignorance
I thought I read somewhere that we cannot trade Marshall if he is NOT signed to a contract. If true, and he chooses to not sign one prior to FA, then our only choice would be to place as high a tender on him as we can, would it not?
I’m guessing that the coaches & FO are evaluating the players & approaching agents in preparation for the opening of FA on March 5. And we’ll see a lot of things happening in late February.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Jan 29, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
I hear the tender rule alot too
I think the only handcuffs to dealing him is creativity. We could do a sign and trade. A team could make a trade offer contingent on him agreeing to a new contract. I know franchise tags are removable, I would guess tender’s are too. I think we could even let Brandon negotiate with an interested team prior to locking a trade. In any event, if we’re going to get max value for him, I’ve always figured he may have to get involved and have some say in it.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
thanks
I have no clue how all of the trading/tender/FA etc rules work
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Jan 29, 2010 2:09 PM MST up reply actions
Why can't you use the picks acquired to trade for veterans?
I mean, that is another option. People have suggested trading a second for Anquan Boldin before, and I would probably do that.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
Its that...
w/a veteran, you cannot teach them a philosophical difference. Veterans sometimes fight the system or the coaching. The beauty of a rookie is that you can mold them. Don’t get me wrong, veterans such as Hill and Goodman were great additions but they were allowed to test the FA market by the Dolphins. Boldin is 30 yrs old and has averaged 12 games a season due to injury.
Say hello to my fast...
I could handle that....
but that is adding another step to the process so it is a bit harder to forecast how that will play out.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
by bonaire on Jan 29, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree as a general rule
But I believe Brandon to be an exception just like Jay was. Then I think we would be done. But I do mostly agree and am not on the ‘lets sell Doom and Champ and Kuper train’ for lotto tickets.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
but for Cutler we did get a proven NFL player in Orton...
controversial as he is around here, the guy is a proven NFL player that has lead winning teams.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I don't care if he stays or goes
If we get a good deal, which I think we really will get a great deal, then I say get rid of the headache. There’s a chance that he’s just had bad things happen to him and that all his drama that he finds is some sort of coincidence… that he’ll change. It’s possible, sure. But all signs point to crazy. If it quaks like a duck, walks like a duck, then it probably truly is a drama-queen.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Jan 29, 2010 10:05 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It's definitely love/hate for me....
I love his talent and I do think he plays hard in games. Unfortunately, it seems like he wants to be a diva receiver, he seems to relish it…he probably has posters of TO on his wall. I can live with diva players if they don’t kill the locker room. If he is traded, we have so many areas of needs, it seems we could at least fine a proven NFL’er plus a draft pick. Its way more likely the proven NFL player will work out then the draft pick.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
Yeah, I'm with that
I’d rather have a proven impact player and a pick, than just the picks. Because Brandon’s talent is elite. But I would agree with any good deal that just involved picks also.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I'd take that deal Sayre
and trade down the 10/11 pick as well. If we have a bunch of picks in the 20 – 50 range, it would improve more places faster, IMO.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
In a few years..
There are no guarantees that the rookies brought in will be instant contributors.
If anything I think this part years draft class exemplified that.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
You can't approach the draft thinking anyone but a top five pick
will contribute immediately. Look at our last 11 first round picks. Only three made significant contributions in their rookie seasons.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:57 AM MST up reply actions
I would say offensive line is an exception
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:57 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
or Linebacker
Look at the players coming out as linebackers now a day.. Its sick..
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
Very true
If I see a Patrick Willis in the top ten, I’m going for him.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
With Buffalo reportedly going to a 3-4 defense...
this brings the total to 10 of the 16 teams in the AFC that run the 3-4. If you want to run on the 3-4, you have to be able to run up the middle. We need the OL muscle. It makes perfect sense to draft 1 or both of Iupati or Pouncey – or combine high draft choice(s) with FA pickup(s) to solidify the OL. I see where Iupati is ranked at #14 and Pouncey is at #34 in the CBS Sports rankings. We don’t need both of these guys per se, just some combination who can open holes consistently. And that will take high picks or good FAs.
This trade does make sense. However, I don’t think that it will ever happen because of the owner not wanting to spend the money. Try Tennessee.
After making sure that we have a decent OL, ILB and NT/DE each need a boost. I am giving up on adding Ryan Pickett as a FA. GB said that his signing is a priority. I don’t see them putting Raji there and letting Pickett go.
Thanks, Sayre, for your time and energy. Nice post and great discussion.
by Blackknigh on Jan 29, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I hadn't that news about Pickett
Can you elaborate at all if it’s not too much trouble? Like who and when said it
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I read it on National Football Post on Thursday.
It was on the Wilson wire. I read it somewhere else but don’t remember. Sorry it took me some time to answer this. Had a few things to tend to today.
Like Emmett says, the competition for 3-4 players is going to be tough with 13 teams now using the defensive scheme. Many teams will be making a strong attempt to keep their FAs.
I saw that too
Pickett isnt leaving GBAY
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Actually, that makes 13 teams using the 3-4
I posted the list the other day – it’s going to make the competition for quality 3-4 player types tougher and tougher.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Good point Kirk
Stockpile the picks, and you can always trade them for veterans.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:56 AM MST up reply actions
I don’t want to trade B Marsh….but if we are to let him test the RFA market, then so be it. However, you place a high tender on him. Get that 1st and 3rd….who knows maybe nobody wants him and he comes back, maybe we sign and trade him for more. If denver doesn’t want to have 2 1st’s, trade down after the fact. On draft day teams get crazy and we would be better off waiting until then.
That's when you'd work out a sign and trade.
Essentially, two seconds and a fifth is equivalent to a first and third.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
"Stink" said on Mike and Mike that he's talking to BM,
and he doesn’t really see BM coming back…..also meaning that if we keep BM cause he
s restricted and we can, then it’ll be bad news for us. SO……to the bucs do make sense….I REALLY like that second example. NO TEBOW!!! stop with the man crush already. We need to improve our team on the field. Having a great leader who cant do anything on the NFL field won’t matter.
I agree the Bucs make sense
Not sure why any comment from Marshall would indicate anything, because it’s not his decision whatsoever. And you’re going to have to get over my devotion to Tebow. It’s not going away, so you ought to just accept it. If we draft him, I’ll be ecstatic. I won’t be anti-Broncos if we don’t.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
I'm with you on Tebow
… but as I stated yesterday, ONLY if we can get him in the second round or later.
Tebow should not be drafted as a QB. But as a football players yes. Could he be a Dallas Clark clone? Maybe but we have to wait till the combine to find out if he has hands that can catch a football.
I've seen him prove much more as a QB
Than any kind of receiving threat. If you don’t think he’s going to be a good QB, that’s fine. But what has he done to indicate he will be a good receiver?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
tebow NOOOOOOO
and Marshall certainly DOES have a part in this decision! If he goes to McXanders and sez all the right things …it will very likely influence them! Isn’t that obvious?
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 29, 2010 6:26 PM MST up reply actions
Sorry to butt in here but my computer is not able to make it to the end of this thread for me to comment.
I just wanted to say that there is a lot of speculation that BM is as good as gone. I will believe it when I see it. For all we know right now, we have 6 draft picks (no #5). We have to find out of that guys to contribute on the OL, ILB, possibly a NT/De type, a CB and another RB. FA is not a sure thing this year because of the CBA. My sense is that many teams will play their cards close to their vest until they see what unfolds. Then take calculated risks to improve what they have in front of them. We may not see BM moved until after the draft is over – if at all. At any rate, if the Cutler trade is any guidance, in the event of a trade, I am confident that they will strive for the top dollar. Whether that is enough to compensate for a talent like Marshall remains to be seen. The same goes with Scheffler and Hillis. I am not coming down on Mock Drafts – they are fun – and I enjoy them and have fun contributing. I just wanted to inject some realism.
Thanks everyone for your time and energy.
Marshall
Where exactly have Marshall, Scheffler, & for the sake of argument Hillis gotten the Broncos thus far in their tenure as Denver Broncos? Certainly not to the playoffs.
I’m just saying…
We can say that about Clady, Royal, Kuper etc….
Just saying….We can not trade the whole team away
by no-pseudo-fan on Jan 29, 2010 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
What have
Matt Schaub, Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels done for Houston
Should they just trade those playes away as well?
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Well, they beat us
That’s not the same thing. None of those guys have been a hinderance to the Texans’ organization.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
I'm just saying..
You cant use the he hasnt done anything for us yet so we should get rid of him crap..
The fact is they have done a lot for us. Like you mentioned directly below. Its a total team effort and it shows just how hard it is to win in the NFL
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
It's not really their fault
Because until this past year, our defense has been a huge bust.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
Then we could use the same logic for Cutler
give the guy a defense and he would have a winning record.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
That's also not necessarily true
Cutler has a bad habit of throwing to the team with the wrong jersey. Even with a solid defense, a -17 turnover ratio is not going to do squat for a good defense.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
Very true
AS Orton proved in his last game.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
Its been something I considered last year....
did Cutler throw all of those interceptions the last year with us because we had the worst defense in our history and he knew we had to score TD on every drive? I rationalized it as a “yes”. However, the interceptions continued with the Bears; they also had a bad defense this year but not as bad as the Broncos the previous year. I am inclined after this year to think this is just who he is at this point in his career.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I don't agree or disagree with you
I use to think the majority of the problem with him was he had no defense and he knew he had to wing it all the time. But after watching him this year he threw some terrible passes that you just cannot throw.
I think this year is a huge year for him. He needs to get the proper OC in there that will play to his strengths. They have talent on that offense so there should be no excuses.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:23 AM MST up reply actions
Playoffs! Playoffs!
Sorry I just felt like channeling my inner Jim Mora Sr.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 29, 2010 4:12 PM MST up reply actions
Certainly makes sense to me (the trade, not the QB drafting)
I wouldn’t rule out taking their 3rd overall though. If we talked to a team like the Seahawks (just an example) ahead of time, we might be able to move back and gain more.
One QB (claussen) will likely be off the board. The Redskins draft next, making the 3rd pick potentially valuable for anybody looking to jump the Skins before they take Bradford. The Hawks wouldn’t want two picks in the first six, but even if we just traded back to #6, we would get a 2nd rounder. So that would be a 1 and a 2 for Marshall, and after we’re out of the pricey top five, it’s easier to move back again and maybe make more.
So yeah, I’d take the #3 pick if I had a likely trading partner that I’d talked to ahead of time.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Not impressed w/this year's QB crop
I saw a Colt McCoy go down w/an ‘injury’ w/in just a few plays in what was his biggest game of his collegiate career. I’m sure if I were his agent I’d suggest he did not return to preserve his status/value. Bradford? Just like McCoy, not sure if he can stay healthy. Risk doesn’t make sense. Maybe we simply want to replace Orton but the problem wasn’t at the QB but the interior OL.
Say hello to my fast...
I wouldn't want one even if I liked one
I’m just saying Seattle probably will and there’s a very good chance they have to jump over Shanny and the Skins to do it… making the 3rd pick valuable.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Excellent idea
This is one of the most likely scenarios I have seen. Get him to the NFC. I think the draftees in the second round are hungrier to succeed than the first rounders who are set for life with their signing bonuses. Adding Iupati + Pouncey = an OL that might even make Orton look good.
Forget Orton
Make our running game epic again!
Say hello to my fast...
I'll go on a limb and say this
And I know I’m going to get hammered for saying this but I honestly believe if MCD doesnt get this thing straightened out next year he is done He took over an 8 win team that was a win away from the playoffs. He basically brought us back to the same spot again this year. With all the drama that has happened over the past 12 months he needs to win this year. If the offense doesnt improve or his defene goes backwards people are going to be all over him for his moves.
I know lots of you wont agree with this and will argue what exactly constitutes a top notch player but I firmly believe this will be a big year for MCD
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Every year is big
I just think we differ on expectations. I think after bringing in a new QB, nearly all new personnel on defense, changing offensive schemes, defensive schemes, new coaches at nearly every position and play all but one AFC Playoff teams, two NFC playoff teams, last year’s super bowl champ and this years likely champ… well, then I’d say eight wins is an amazing start, regardless of how mediocre we were the previous three years.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
My point is..
He didnt need to bring in the offensive side of the ball. People will hold him to that. Orton is his hand picked QB. If Orton doesnt keep progressing then what do we do? Bring in a rookie? Will the fans have the stomach to bring in a rookie after going two years with Orton? Even on the defensive side of the ball if we regress they’re going to look to the fact that he let Nolan out of his contract and cite how they had differences in opinion on how to run a defense. That will end up on MCD plate as well.
I’m just saying.. like you said.. this year is huge.. I think MCD knows that. Trading away playmakers when you need to win now isnt a great career move.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
We'll agree to disagree
Brandon’s creates drama everywhere around hime. If our coach wants to trade him for good value I’m all for it. People worried about the Cutler trade like you’re doing now. They said all the what ifs, what do we do’s, coach better prove it or hes outta here, etc…
I think we got the good end of that deal, I think with all the transitions made we’re actually ahead of schedule… So I give him the benefit of doubt. I trust he knows whether Marshall should stay or leave. I just don’t care either way.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Who didn't
Sorry – your comment kind of lost me. Can you elaborate on this?
He didn’t need to bring in the offensive side of the ball.
Who didn’t? Is this about McDaniels? If so, he needed to redo the running back squad, deepen the O-line, replace the QB and some of the WRs.
There is a common misconception about the state of the offense. Mike Shanahan’s personnel were only useful for Shanahan’s own system. Since each coach brings in his own system and coaches (and should), whoever came in after Shanahan would have had to redo most of the offense as well as the D and STs.
On the other hand, if you were going somewhere else, don’t mind me……lol
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Diva Recievers
Desean Jackons supposedly is going to or has told his agent to restructure his contract because he has out performed it. DOes that make him a Diva? Should Philly trade him?
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
That depends
Has he been arrested 13 times? Has he been suspended on three different accounts?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
He was no role model
He had troubles coming out of college. Thats why Shannahan passed on him in the draft
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
Stop. You're not really trying to say they're the same deal
And I know you don’t believe it. I get that you want Marshall to stay. He’s elite, and I don’t use that word loosely. But he’s action packed with issues from being arrested more than a dozen times, to punting balls in the sky, to saying Coach hasn’t played in the NFL way (in a less than professional way), to having team leaders come talk to coach about his attitude, to being suspended by the team (basically twice already), to being suspended by the league and being one hickup away from an eight game suspension…
I mean come on. You like Brandon’s production. I do too. But if he feels it’s better that Brandon leave, and thereby trades him… can you really blame him or second guess it from the outside?
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Elvis is right. If you pay this guy the $10m/yr then he hits his wife/girlfriend he is gone for a year. Say goodbye to $10m.
NAH, this guy is a diva and name me one that won a SB
Michael Irvin
“Deion Sanders, Lots of Diva’s have won superbowls.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
Terrell Owens
didn’t win but he had a touchdown, 9 receptions and 144 yards on a broken leg in the eagles’ superbowl loss.
hamstring pulls are impossible to play on.
which i guess was where the “he said/he said” stuff comes in. i do think that mcGeorge has a valid point that if a team’s medical staff tried to cost you a lucrative career, you might become highly “conservative” until you got a new contract.
i’m not sure what i’d do in marshall’s position but i don’t think it’s as easy as him being some kind of lazy show-me-the-money diva type. marshall plays his butt off. he goes over the middle, he’s physical, he blocks well and has started developing very good hands.
to me the only risk of writing the big check—and it’s a big risk— is that he’s already crapped away his first two strikes.
The hamstring pull is the greatest load of bull shit I have ever heard..
And McDaniels….and the team leaders…called him on it!
He missed treatment, as the injury was an excuse for Marshall to give up.
It is NO coincidence Marshall’s season ended as soon as he caught a 100 balls……its that simple!
I love BM, but those that keep defending him only help enable his type of behavior…….and thats not the type of “TEAM” player I EVER want on my Broncos!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
easy there...
not sure what brought on the onslaught, boydy, but i did say that it’s a high risk to keep marshall.
marshall did not miss any treatments—he was late for one, and according to him he wanted to play, wasn’t sure he could, but expected it to be a game time decision.
also, if we can get a few receivers to “quit” after 100 catches, that’d be pretty sweet. i think maybe eddie royal quit after 4.
There are no shut down corners.....thats another term like Franchise Quarterback.....Champ is one of the best...has been and will continue to be!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Great Deal for Denver
If this was really on the table, I’d grab it. One of the best scenarios I could think of Denver getting. But if you’re Tampa Bay, won of the worst teams in football. Why would you trade 2 high 2nd rounders for a luxury like Marshall? They have massive holes across their team.
I'm just a messenger
Tampa’s own paper reported they would be interested, so I’m just speculating on what Marshall’s value is. Tampa doesn’t have to give up the 3rd pick, so they give up something of equal value.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:18 AM MST up reply actions
And you're very good at it
Keep it up.
But, if it were me building a team I wouldn’t trade 2 second round picks when I’m a bottom third team in the league. Not when realistically speaking they’re a 2- 3 years away from contending.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
So what was the Kellen Winslow Jr. Trade about
Last year. Remember?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 10:41 AM MST up reply actions
I have a few points
One name…Malcom Glazer. He’s been dumping salary for the last little while. They have the lowest payroll in the league. He’s in major financial trouble with ManU and I don’t see him making any splashes or taking on any players that would command big bucks. I’m not saying it won’t happen, it’s just an opinion based on my observations of the Bucs. (My brother is a huge fan so I pay attention to them.)
Second point is while I certainly would like to see Iupati and Pouncey, teams generally don’t start 2 rookies on the O-line. Maybe we draft them and start them down the road but for some reason (and I have no real basis for this) I don’t see McD starting 2 rookies on the line so we probably won’t be looking at any immediate impact. I could be completely wrong but that’s just what I’ve seen in the past.
by T.Dot_Bronco on Jan 29, 2010 10:19 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Iupati
Ive been watching the guy all week at the senior bowl and how the NFL network is gushing about him.
He may seriously project into a LT by the time the draft comes around. If thats the case there is a chance he gets drafted before we can get our mitts on him.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Last year's #3 pick got a contract for more than what Marshall will be asking for
Tyson Jackson got a five year deal for $11M+ per year. Brandon’s only going to want 8-9
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
That being said though
If Glazer is trying to do things on the cheap, he’s not going to want to pay that #3 pick and Marshall. So they’d either have to trade the pick for Marshall or forget Marshall. All of this however is assuming he’s planning on doing things on the cheap, which the evidence points to.
by T.Dot_Bronco on Jan 29, 2010 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
I'd take their 3rd overall and trade it to the Hawks, or I'd try at least
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Glazer is the public face of what’s wrong with revenue sharing. he takes the money and runs, and the team was so far below the salary cap this year, it’s hard to believe. There is no way he authorizes a big contract like this. There’s just no way.
Glazer has NO money
To give you an example of how much debt the Glazers are in with their purchase of Manchester United, If Peyton Manning dedicated 100% of his salary to pay off the debt it would take him about 85 years to clear it.
There is no way that Glazer pays Marshall. He’s not Al Davis. He’s more likely to get the players to pay him. He’d probably trade the 3rd pick for some magic beans and someone earning rookie minimum if he could.
Getting down off my soap-box
Love United, Hate Glazer!
I love Iupati
The guy is a monster just look at what he did against USC (left guard) …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWdvfRhTruw&feature=related
I know the 10th pick is high for a guard but if he ends up being a perennial Pro Bowler along with Clady for the next decade…Bring it on!
I like your first scenerio, OG and OC (both big and instant contributors) I think Benn would be a steal if we get him in the late 2nd and as long as we dont spend a 1st rd pick on Tebow, I wouldnt mind seeing him wear orange and blue.
The other thing that makes sense for this is
Anyone who would suggest to trade Marshall anywhere in our division, I think would be grossly mistaken. If the broncos are able to trade him outside the AFC to the NFC and still get value, I feel that works best. Denver certainly would like to do what it can to also send him to a team that isn’t close to going anywhere. Only my opinion.
Great scenario
Tebow silliness aside…I’d jump on that trade in a heartbeat. I think we could get more, but if this is on the table, I like the position it puts us in.
I’d like it to be 1st, 2nd, and 5th though and I think that is doable.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I am in agreement that Marshall is worth at LEAST that package of picks
Any ideas of teams willing to give that up though?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
Possibilities only...nothing concrete
I could see the following teams (hopefully) getting into a bidding war:
Redskins
Bucs
Ravens
Seahawks
The key to us getting something like what I said is getting two teams that WANT him. Much like the Cutler situation…I think we had 3 solid players in the game for that trade and it gave us the luxury of a high selling price with a QB McDaniels wanted.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Like this scenario
1. Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State
2. Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
3. Brandon Graham, DE/OLB, Michigan
4. Colt McCoy, QB, Texas
I really like Mccoy and would go a further I think we can grab him later, like 3rd round giving us more room to imprrove on a real good NT.
But another real good post.
Colt McCoy is dropping like a rock. Since his last two games have shown his worts (and quitting) I would not touch him. Remember he is very small also. under 6’2" and under 210 lbs.
Lol
He did not quit! Come on now, did you not see him nearly in tears after the game because he couldn’t help his team? Why would he have quit his last game in college, the one chance he had at a title?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
review the tape and watch when he goes for attention and the camera’s are following. At least 8 times he uses his right arm to rub his hair or face. Hurt that bad? Then in the second half he was rooting for his team from the sidelines and at least three times raised both arms in celebration. I am just questioning the amount of pain!!
And there is no crying in football :-)
He admitted it didn't hurt
He just said he couldn’t feel it, like he fell asleep on it wrong. That is a weird feeling, and I don’t think I could concentrate on the game with that sensation in my arm.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
What you're describing is usually a compression of the brachial plexus
If it takes place in the lower cervical spine or at the thoracic outlet, the arm becomes numb and you cannot use it in an athletic contest. That’s why they have chiropractors (I’m not one, just commenting) along the sidelines with most NFL teams. You could raise the arm (sometimes), but if you tried to catch or throw a ball, the numbness wouldn’t permit that activity.
I’m not a big McCoy fan, but I wouldn’t want him accused of something that wasn’t his fault.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
The ONLY QB I like is Dan LeFevour....has an arm and GREAT mobility!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard you say McGeorge....you are a smart fan......this is just a stupid thing to say!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Graham is a beast
No way this guy should be passed.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
I agree
I think he could go first round
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
I watched every Michigan game this year
Everytime they needed a big play he was there for them. Blocked kicks, sacks, you name it.
He will be another in a long line of great Michigan LB’s
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
What about this scenario with the Bucs?
We trade pick #10/11 and our 5th round pick and Marshall to Tampa
for
Picks #3 and #35 and #42
Then with #3 we pick up the “scraps” of any of these three:
Eric Berry S Tennessee
Ndamukong Suh DT Nebraska
Gerald McCoy DT Oklahoma
and still having the flexibility to pick up more talent for the O and D lines in the second.
What say you MHR?
i am cheap. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I don't know how any of those guys fits
I mean, you are willing to pull a Chiefs and draft a five technique at 3 overall? Or a safety who would be lost in our depth chart?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
Granted, Suh will be gone, but...
I think Berry will be the next Ronnie Lott. I respect your Draftuvis Acumen Sayre, so what would YOU do in this scenario of mine?
If we traded into the top three?
Assuming I’m picking between McCoy and Berry, I’d choose Berry. I think McCoy is a classic 4-3 tackle.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
If we are going to trade Marshall, a HOF type talent, it would make the most sense to replace him with a similar type talent. So trading into the top 3 makes sense.
What Denver doesn’t need is more mediocre jack of all trade type prospects like Ayers, McBath and Quinn. You replace productive stars with stars, if you can.
I’d take Berry in a heartbeat, but McCoy would be great as well. If this is how the Marshall saga ends, that would at least be a decent outcome for Denver.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
You calling McBath average.....jack of all trades???
The BIGGEST philosophy that McDaniels has brought on is players that are MULTI TALENTED McG. Thats why McBath is a great special teamer NOW and will be great in our secondary in the future.
I LOVED what I saw out of him, and think he will be a VERY GOOD safety for us.
Picking a guy on only one skill set is a wasted pick in todays game, and McD and Xanders know this!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Who says we have to accept trades for draft picks for THIS year?
Think Tampa might give up a #2 this year and their #1 next year? I would think they would do better next year easily, which means a draft pick that won’t be as high as this year.
Just sayin’….McD could be impatient and desire to build hear and now, but if he were wise he would build here and now and for later.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
besides, wouldn't draft picks next year be a whole lot cheaper to sign with a "lock out"? :)
or does the draft just not take place?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Good point, BUT
I think this is the deepest draft we’ve seen in a long time. McD wants to do what he can to help this team win now, and I think that is the best move for us, but you could be right.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
Why not
Maybe we could manage to get Rolando McClain in the first and what about Arrelious Benn in the second. Very similar in size to Dez Bryant , but a bit faster. here is a link to his scouting report. http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1849 Of course I am not sure he would be around in the 2nd round, since he is listed as the 18th best prospect in the draft, but you never know.
by Broncanatic on Jan 29, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
That's a good point you bring up though
Cheaper owners/less financially fortunate teams should be very much more interested in stock piling next year’s picks, because a new rookie cap is all but absolutely guaranteed to be in place by then. There’s got to be a way to exploit that somehow, meaning though, I guess the opposite direction Tim suggests of us stock piling the picks.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
The 2011 draft will have NO underclassmen if there is not a new CBA. Would you enter a league that wasn’t playing or paying?
If there is not a CBA in 2011, that draft will be the worst draft in NFL history.
Guys would be taking redshirts just to avoid having to enter the 2011 draft.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I’m sure McDaniels knows that if the team produces the same as it did in the last 8 games this year, future draft picks won’t help him
+ 1
I agree wholeheartly
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
We need 1st round picks
I believe if we trade marshall we need to replace him with a difference maker. Those types of players are more likely come in the first round. Two 2nd rounders from the Bucs just doesn’t excite me…
Pmac82..you are somewhat right.
The top 10 are usually difference makers. Then all your difference makes come between the 2nd and 4th rounds. Check most of the top teams and their 22 players will fall in 2-4. Yes they will have 1 or 2 #1’s.
Sayre.. I would love
the 2nd round picks more than a 1st because of monetory value.
I think your idea of the high tender, find out his true value then trade where McX can get the best value. Whether that is player and picks or just picks. I love rookie picks over vets.
An earlier post said vets have already formed their impression of the NFL where rookies can be taught.
Love your posts young man.
I voted yes
but that doesnt mean I think it will happen. Once againg this is ll Denver and they have all the choice!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
If I am the Broncos' FO
Marshall doesn’t go for anything LESS than a 1st and 3rd, or he will again be running routes for Denver this year.
If Marshall goes, Denver will need a WR plus they still will need help at C/OG. Bryant in the draft is attractive, but if the Broncos go for Bryant with one 1st rounder, Iupati is gone. Iupati is a future superstar, IMO, and he MUST be the number one priority, if I am the Broncos’ FO . . .
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
If
he’s traded this sounds best to me. For the record though I say keep him and draft Iupati and Pouncey. A QB,MLB,NT and return man in the later rounds and we’ll be doing real good.
"Just trying to win a MF game."
Would you trade Brandon Marshall for Alphonso Smith and McBath (2nd round picks)?
Of course not.
Unless Tampa threw in a 1st in 2011 or a 3rd and 4th in 2010, I’d let this trade pass by without a thought.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Cmon man!
You can’t talk about a trade being made in the now based off players from last year’s draft. You’ve said yourself this is a very strong draft class…2nd rounders here are going to be better than last year’s 2nd rounders…and the staff will have a whole offseason to scout and plan unlike last year.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Sadaraine, you're right..
regarding the strength of this draft in regards to last years. I guess thats why McGeorge gets so fired up about the Alphonso Smith trade. But thats a whole other can of worms.
I love McGeorges blunt style though.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jan 29, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
Based on the Ayers, Smith and Quinn picks – I’m not looking forward to Denver having a whole bunch of picks in any upcoming draft.
My worry is McDaniels stocks our roster with a whole bunch of mediocre jack-of-all-trade draft picks and gets canned leaving the next guy having to start from scratch (like a KC, Cleveland or Rams) with only one or two great players on the roster.
Do you guys honestly see Ayers, Smith, Quinn maybe even McBath and Moreno ever staring in the NFL?
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Here's my thinking..
I hated the Smith and Quinn moves. I didnt think they needed to be made at the time they did. It totally throws the value of the pick out the window. Quinn had a 4th round grade so why move up and get him. Its like playing fantasy football and laughing at the guy that drafts Rob Bironas in the 6th round because he’s the best kicker. Sure he might have talent, but its all about getting value. MCD shouldve known that this years draft would be much deeper and held onto that pick. There is just no excuse for trading a 1st for a 2nd.
I like Ayers and I’m willing to take a wait and see approach with him. The Moreno move was just plain idiotic to move. I was having a draft day party and tossed my Champ jersey across the room in disgust. Not that I dont like him, but once again its about value and unless your getting AP or Chris Johnson there is no value in drafting a 1st round RB. Moreno wasnt even hands down the best RB in the draft. Bennie Wells was rated just as high. Plus., we had a ton of RB’s on our roster and had signed Arrington and Buck. Needless to say with all our defensive deficienes I didnt think RB was needed in the first round.
I tend to think we think a lot a like. Just because a guy is drafting in the first round makes him a stud. The draft is filled with draft busts. It drives me nutty when people say we;re going to draft this guy and that guy and all of a sudden we’ll be fine.. No.. we may not be fine..
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Orakpo would have been my pick at 12. Hands down, easy choice. Trading down would have been they move I tired at 18. I feel like Denver took Ayers because they had to. 2009 was a crummy draft and we didn’t have many better options when that pick came on the clock – I’m more bummed that I don’t think he’ll pan out beyond being a complimentary player. I can’t really fault McD on that one.
The Smith trade was lunacy. I’m glad it failed and hope Denver learned that lesson so well they never try something so stupid again.
I didn’t get the Quinn trade at all. We could have taken him 13 picks later. If not, oh well. So we didn’t land a TE with 12 total catches in college football. It’s not like blocking TEs come along once a generation. Most teams just convert a FB, OTs and such (like they did with #86 in San Diego – Maluma or whatever).
Would not surprise me at all if Denver’s 2009 draft grades out as a D or F two years from now.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I agree with Quinn
What was the big fuss to move up and grab him. Orakpo shouldve been the pick. Its funny how most teams had him mocked at #5. I bet they wish they wouldve grabbed him.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
From the reports out of the Redskin camp, Orakpo has worked better at DE
in a 4-3 than he would at OLB in a 3-4. There was some speculation that when Shanahan came that they would move to a 3-4. The comments about Orakpo indicated that his strength was at DE in a 4-3. It looks as though that is where they will stay.
His is an excellent player and those comments do not mean that he would not have worked here. I am just reporting what I read.
Careful
Its not fair to fight fair.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 30, 2010 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
Yep, everyones a bloody expert with hindsight...
Moreno was a bad pick…totally disagree.
Not going O line last year (in hindsight) was a mistake….but who knew. McGeorge, Johnny…..not picking on you, but its really easy to be a Head Coach from the stands after the deed is done.
Am I stoked with how Moreno played? No….but who knew our O line would implode. At the time, I loved the pick, and I still think he will be a difference maker with a better o line.
Instead of bagging the crap out of the team, lets just move on with what we have and ideas to make it better!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
What time period are you living in?
When did the Smith trade fail? I didn’t know that he was off the team…wow…would have thought that would have made the front page news for MHR.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
That trade failed, even if you don’t recognize it yet. You will by mid 2010 when he is still riding pine (or deactive) behind a rookie draft pick and Tony Carter.
If Denver believed in Smith, we wouldn’t have signed Law and we wouldn’t have played Carter right off the practice squad. You are not reading the tea leaves.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
That's because I don't do hoo doo man...
You get out your crystal ball and read some tea leaves…I’ll stick with solid truth. Smith is still on the team…until he gets cut or shows no growth this year, there is no way I label him a bust.
It is very possible, but that deal isn’t done man.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
From a comment by Colinski
There are some objective metrics for first year CBs and first year players in general, but before examining those it’s interesting to note the roster moves that were made at the CB position this year. Curiously, the signing of Ty Law was greeted in many quarters as confirmation of Smith’s failure even though Jack Williams was cut immediately before Law was signed. Normally, releasing one player and signing another at the same position is considered as a comment on the released player, but many chose to interpret the move as comment on Smith instead.
There is a diagnostic value to the fact that many chose to interpret Jack Williams’ release and the concomitant signing of Law as a comment on Alphonso Smith’s performance. On one hand, there was reason to believe that Smith had performed inadequately since there would be little reason to sign Law if Smith had excelled. On the other hand, Law’s signing in itself could be merely an indication of the staff’s desire to bring in a former pro-bowler who still had value and, even more importantly, experience, which was highly valued where McDaniels has formerly coached. If people had seized upon the cut & signing as a comment on Williams’ performance then it would have made sense. The fact is that the cut of Williams only elicited some surprise and very little commentary on why he wasn’t kept.
The ‘natural’ conclusion was that Williams had failed rather than Smith, but many saw it as a sign that Smith had failed instead. Although it’s arguable whether those who took that position were critics of the trade that brought him aboard initially, but there are sound reasons for believing that this is the case. Underlying disapproval of many of the changes during the off-season had remained but — often — in a dormant state, only to re-emerge once again when the circumstances favored voicing that disapproval. It would have been unseemly to criticize the Broncos during their six-game winning streak at the beginning of the season, and very few people did, but the losses after that point opened the door once again and many who had stuck to their guns, or now returned to them, were free to criticize once the team’s fortunes had changed.
Smith opened the season with 5 tackles against the Bengals starting as a rookie at the nickel slot. He sprained his ankle in week 3 vs. the raiders, was listed as questionable for 3 weeks afterward, split time with Jack Williams (who had been out of practice that week with an illness) in week 7, then Ty Law was signed after that game and Williams was cut, and Law, with barely 2 days of practice, started and played every nickel down. Smith spent the next 7 weeks either deactivated or playing behind Law, who did excellent (as should be expected of a five time probowler, and who, notably is expecting to come back for the Broncos next year). Smith and Carter were both activated for the raiders game, and Smith only saw a few reps in that game, at the very end to rest Carter, and one was the Schillens TD that seems to have imprinted itself in the minds of those who don’t like Smith. Neither Carter nor Smith had any impact in the following 2 weeks.
I suppose that there are indeed tea leaves that can be read in this case, but they are in the injury reports. Smith spent the middle of his rookie season battling an ankle injury, lost playing and practice time because of it, and then didn’t recover when he had a chance at the end of the season. This isn’t good, but it isn’t a textbook case of a rookie bust either. Insisting that it is seems like a case of selective blindness to me.
Additionally, the notion that the trade used to acquire him can’t be effective in the NFL may not be as true as you are insisting. Carolina and Everette Brown were parties to a nearly identical trade, and it is working out great for them so far. Brown had a similar problem that Smith had in the second half of the season, where he was trying to gain playing time behind entrenched starters (including Peppers), but he showed enough that the team (and fans) feel that they have a key piece of their long term puzzle in development.
I don’t care how well Smith might have played without an ankle injury, or without Law being signed, but I don’t ignore those events when analyzing his rookie season either. He didn’t play in a vacuum designed to prove or disprove the value of a particular type of draft trade. As always, there is more to it than that…
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 30, 2010 11:49 AM MST up reply actions 5 recs
Its a noble effort...
…but there is no ‘debate’ in Alphonso Smith. His detractors are dug in and no measure of fact, logic or reality is going to impede on firmly entrenched opinions at this point. He is the most unique player in NFL history— and the lessons of history, the reality of Denver’s depth chart, his injury, and the lack of a preponderance of data (i.e the fact that he didn’t play enough for anybody on this site to evaluate him from angles provided by network production trucks) matter little.
AP is a microcosm of the McD disdain in general. The playing field will never be accurate, fair, or even reasonable— and all the previously accepted rules of common sense have been suspended.
I take strange pleasure in the knowledge that under these conditions, the same people are going to be as profoundly disappointed in the next crop of rookies as they are the current. It’s inevitable.
So this is war...misfortune at every bend in the road. Misery and murdered mules and sudden death in a ditch.-- Rick Atkinson
by PredominantlyOrange on Jan 30, 2010 12:25 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Out of the 5 you mentioned
I find it highly likely that the follow turn into starters:
Moreno, McBath, and Ayers
You worry too much my friend.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I agree. I think those three turn into average NFL starters. Nothing more based on what I saw in 2009.
You’re right – 1st and 2nd round picks should turn into starters, in fact they should start in year 1 on mediocre teams like Denver (ahead of guys like Hagen and Buckhalter).
You even hope your 1st and 2nd round picks become your best players because they should.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I said – see our 2009 draft picks as stars. Not starters. Big difference.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Well then talk about something that makes sense
If 2nd round picks must turn into stars to be a success, then your bar is set a bit too high dude.
I honestly did read “starters” and think that is a much more appropriate discussion for the thread.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
This tread is about Marshall and Marshall is an elite NFL player.
We are talking about losing an elite player so YES I am talking about stars.
You’d like and expect 2nd round picks to be impact starters pretty quickly, but expecting them to be elite is setting the bar too high.
I don’t think Denver can replace what BM brings to our team by using two 2nd round picks. That will only work if our scouts are dead on. based on 2009 draft, our scouts are not so good.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I think Arrelious Benn
In round two brings a LOT of what Marshall brings, but he is faster too. Demaryius Thomas could also be that type of player. This is the deepest class I have seen in a long time, so the time is ripe to deal Marshall. I hope we get more for him than even I expect.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:39 PM MST up reply actions
Or you could draft Dez in the first
AND Benn with one of the second’s. That’d be a stellar duo for the future.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:39 PM MST up reply actions
Or you could have some common sense
and pick up Dez lower while getting McClain at 10….just saying
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Two things
A. McClain shouldn’t be there at 10, and if he IS, I’ll take him no doubt
B. How far do you think Bryant would drop?
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:45 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly
That’s why I said McClain and Benn and not Benn and Bryant. No way Bryant falls to the second round.
I agree. We should address WR in rounds 2-4. Lots of good WRs, no great ones.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Throw Jordan Shipley into the mix if he is there in say round 3, he could be a slot machine. The next Wes Welker.
by Broncanatic on Jan 29, 2010 4:21 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
+2 on Ship!!!!
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Jan 29, 2010 6:57 PM MST up reply actions
Seriously man
They don’t have to both hit…just one of them.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Wasn't Marshall a 4th round pick?
Just asking…..because GOD FORBID that a WR we pick up before round 4 could be as good, or better than Marshall.
Is it possible????
WOW….imagine that if it is!!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
don't you think
For the price paid for Smith he should be among this group.
At the very least I would like to see him as the nickel CB this year.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I do think that
But I don’t know how likely it is…my opinion above was based off what I’ve seen and who I think is likely to be starters in the near future
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Honestly...
Yes to several, I think Ayers came on strong and is going to have a great year next year. Moreno? Are you kidding me, of course he is going to improve and be a star at some point once we get settled on a blocking scheme. And I am sure every cb ever drafted was a star his first year, except poor smith. He’s a bust, hasn’t started a single game yet, but he’s a bust. C’mon McGeorge give them a chance already and quit bashing them until they have at least had a realistic chance to show what they have.
Moreno. Why?
Why is he going to be a star? dont get me wrong. I hope he breaks out like Ray Rice did in his second year. But why are you so sure he will?
I’m just asking.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Just a feeling
I watch him run and I see a few little things he does a lot of the time. Like not running down hill as soon as he should and dancing around. Other times I see him look great and hit the hole hard. I think if he can get over the dancing and start seeing the holes sooner he will be a great running back. It’s not like he was terrible or anything his rookie year. He had what over 850 yards? That’s not to shabby when you are sharing carries.
I'll bite
Because he is starting to consistently pick the holes that are there
Because he runs well
Because he can make people miss (when it is just one guy, not 2 – 4 because our inside linemen can’t block for jack squat)
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Maybe..
I didnt really see a lot of what you did. Not saying it didnt happen, just i didnt notice it. I thought he looked slow to the hole, ran a little too upright and lacked vision. Although, its easy for me to say that as an arm chair fan.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
With Moreno – I can see him potentially rounding into a Top 10 RB in the NFL. I don’t see a super star, but he could be real good if he works hard at his craft. A better running scheme and better LG & C will help. You can’t get much worse than Hoch and Hamilton.
I don’t see it at all with Smith. The guy lacks speed and size, but what really gets me is that Smith lacks quickness. Quickness is the key to being a great CB – being able to break when a WR breaks. Smith doesn’t have the physical tools to be a good CB in the NFL. He just doesn’t.
Robert Ayers – maybe in the right light he looks like a good prospect. I don’t see him ever being a dominant player, but who knows. The fact that he turns 25 this offseason really bothers me. The guy spent 6 years in college so I just don’t see any more physical upside. His growth will come entirely from getting smarter and more experienced. If he works hard enough, maybe he becomes a player to be reckoned with. I just didn’t see anything in 2009 that lead me to believe Ayers was going to be an impact starter for Denver. On his best days, he looked like a solid role player.
Quinn? What a weird pick that was.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
This is what I'll say on Quinn
You get a guy who blocks better than any TE in last year’s draft arguably, and now that Scheffler is headed out and Graham is what, 32? You’ve got to plan for the future and develop him behind the best. J
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:25 PM MST up reply actions
But is spending a 2nd round pick on the best blocking TE in the draft really a good idea?
Time will tell on that one. I wasn’t overly impressed with how McDaniels uses TEs. Dan didn’t have his best season and it’s not like our TEs did a great job in the running game.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I think they did better than you think, though I don't think anyone but Marshall did great on our offense
And that’s because he was targeted 3 out of 4 plays. Just give it time to develop. I think using a 2nd round pick on a guy you really like IS a good idea, and we got Seth Olsen from that trade too. I think both players will be starting by 2012.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
When you are not getting PT when Hoch is the LG, that is a bad sign.
2012? Why not 2014. You don’t use 2nd round picks for guys you want to start in year 4 of their rookie deal. That is insane.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I blended Olsen and Quinn.
I can’t believe Olsen didn’t make it on the field coming from Iowa and seeing how awful Hoch and Ben played.
Quinn to start in 2012. That is insane. I think he signed a four year rookie deal and I’m sure they hoped he’d blossom before 2012.
I’m not certain we keep Dan Graham into 2010. But since there is no cap, if his contract is not calling for too much $$$, I’d like to think he will be here as the starter.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
They took the Quinn pick
Because another team was looking to take him before our next pick. Therefore, we traded two 3s for a 2 and a 4 and took him. and, because he was rated as one of the two top blocking TEs in that draft, Scheffler was iffy (still is) and Graham hasn’t gotten younger. We also ran several 3 TE looks this year and that’s kind of tough to do without three TEs. Sayre is also right – you have to develop players for the future. Colinski has written some excellent pieces on how that works.
As far as this one: Do you guys honestly see Ayers, Smith, Quinn maybe even McBath and Moreno ever staring in the NFL?
We’ll see more on Smith next year. The film said that Ayers did a nice job this year as a rookie – please watch some before continuing the negative rants. Moreno not starting? Please don’t drink and post. McBath? Between his excellent ST work and the play he achieved when he was on the field at safety, that’s a serious question? While we’re at it, no one knows how Olsen is doing yet and Bruton was both a stud at STs and received some nice compliments from Dawk and Hill on his on-field play.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
It's a weak draft class. Not good when you have 5 day one picks.
As usual, you’re the one drunk on the rookie Kool Aid.
As I’ve said a 50 times – Ayers flashed enough in 2009 for me to think he COULD develop into an impact player. But he played a lot of snaps in 2009 and his stat line of 18 tackles and no sacks is alarming for a guy that got to rush the QB A LOT. I’ve not thrown in the towel with Robert, but I don’t see a future impact player either. When I see Ayers, I see a future role player, which is not what you want out of the 18th overall pick. He has a good bull rush (which probably lead to Elvis picking up a few sacks), but Ayers will need to learn some new tricks this offseason. I don’t think the kid has good football instincts.
What we will see more on Smith next year is that he is going to BUST. He doesn’t have the physical tools to be a good NFL player. You hate to bust on the 14th overall pick in the 2010 NFL draft when we see Seattle take a guy like Dan Williams or Dez Bryant (not a player I like, but) with our Alphonso Smith pick.
I like McBath, I’m not ready to say he’ll develop into an above average starter, but I’m excited to see if he takes the next step in 2010. Of all the rookies, he is the one that surprised me the most in a good way.
Moreno struck me as a jack of all trades, but master of none. He lacks burst and pure speed. I could see him developing into an above average RB starter and that is good enough for the 12th oveall pick. I don’t see him ever being elite since I don’t think he has the physical tools.
Bruton, good pick. I’ve never said anything negative about this player.
If Olsen couldn’t get on the field with the awful Hochstein and Hamilton in front of him… Yikes.
I think that if you asked McDaniels privately about his 2009 draft. He’d say he regrets the Smith trade, the Ayers pick, the Quinn pick, and the Olsen pick. Seeing how 2nd and 3rd round RBs always seem to do about as well as the 1st rounds, he may even regret the Moreno pick, but that would have less to do with Moreno than it would with the success of guys like Shon Green (taken one pick behind Quinn).
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Like I said..
I hope he breaks out like Ray Rice did. I wouldnt rule it out. I’m just not willing to bet the house it happens. First round running backs dont always turn out as expected.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I’ll give ya smith, I am not sold on him either. But if he plays nickel the speed will not be as big an issue. He is a bit slow, only around 4.56 or so I think. Only time will tell.
you're exactly right
only time will tell on all these players..
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Smith also lacks quickness, which is why he got torched in the nickel spot. I’d actually like to see him tried on the outside to see if he is better there.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
He ran a 40 in 4.36
That hardly lacks speed. As to quickness, I’ve read 7 of his draft scouting reports and all commented on his quickness. Yes, he had a tough 1st year after the injury. We all agree. But your facts are getting pretty thin.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Again, it is your facts that are thin.
Smith ran in the 4.5s and those scouting reports you refer to just hammered him for his slow 40 (and his short stature).
You won’t have anyone back you up on that 4.36 claim. You either made that up or are thinking of a different player.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
McG....dont call people out for being liars...I know you are passionate but thats stepping over the line mate!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
And thats fine
But would you make that trade to move up Sayre?
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
No.
I would not trade a first for a second. Ever. That’s just me though.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:30 PM MST up reply actions
We agree for once.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Yeah
That’s not to say I am not on board with Alphonso. I thought he was a great prospect, but I would not have traded our first round pick JUST for a second. McD made a mistake there, but hopefully Smith turns out to be a great player like he showed he could be in college.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
I have optism regarding Smith
But we all agree that trade shouldnt be made..
MCD plan shouldve been a bit more long term focused.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
McD can be impulsive
He is SOO confident in his methods, and with that one move, he was a bit overconfident IMO.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:40 PM MST up reply actions
“He is SOO confident in his methods”
This is precisely why I don’t like McDaniels and exactly why I think he’ll flame out in Denver. The guy has 1 year of HC experience. One. ONE. Try riding the bike around the block a few times before you go charging down a mountain.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Exactly
And there lies the reason people hate him. I love having him and I love the fact that he is so confident in his methods, because they are successful as proven by the Pats this past decade. We’re not as talented as the Pats yet, but with another offseason we could be.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
Based on my take on our 2009 draft and trading away Cutler, Marshall & Scheff… I think we’re getting closer to the Lions than the Pats.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I don't see it
We have a ton of veteran leadership. It’d be different if we had traded Champ, DJ, Dumervil, and Clady.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:52 PM MST up reply actions
Champ, DJ and Dumervil have the same record as BM of the past four years. 32-32. Those guys haven’t taken us anywhere but a standstill.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
But they are high character players
You don’t see any of them, Doom in particular threatening to hold out, demanding a trade, putting this franchise in a position where we HAVE to get rid of them. That’s what Cutler did, and that’s what Marshall is doing.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:56 PM MST up reply actions
High character doesn’t win. Talent does.
Doom is a classy guy, but if we don’t pay him this offseason, we’ll have an angry man in the locker room.
I love Doom. I think Champ has one more pretty good season left and DJ – I don’t care for anymore.
Clady is a mystry. I wasn’t very impressed with his 2009 performance, but he set the bar ultra high after 2008. Lets hope for a bounce back season in 2010.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I agree
Eventually you need to pay your players.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
If last year was any indication, Champ is on top of his game
Zero touchdowns allowed? That’s by far best in the NFL.
Clady was still a Pro Bowl performer and is in my eyes the best LT in the NFL, and Dumervil will get his money because he’s handled his situation in a respectable manner.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 4:15 PM MST up reply actions
Bailey had a good season, but you and I both know he is no longer a shut down CB.
All I’m saying is Clady played better in 2008 than he did in 2009. Do you disagree? That he would regress in year 2 is somewhat alarming and I didn’t see it coming.
Agree on Elvis – we HAVE to pay him to keep the peace.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I agree on bailey
He isnt as good as he use to be.. But he is still better then 98% of the corners out there. I fear as the jury gets out that he has slowed down he gets challenged more. Of course, if we can build the defensive line up it can take some pressure of the corners.
On the surface it seems like Clady regressed a little. I wonder how much that had to do with Cutler’s mobility and Ortons comlete lack of pocket presence. However, I find it shocking that he got to the probowl this year and not last year.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
i don't agree on the zero td's allowed stat.
I’m not sure how they keep track of that one.
Either way Champ is NOT on top of his game.
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 30, 2010 8:06 AM MST up reply actions
Detroit will be better
They got some nice young pieces… I know they’re a laughing stock right now but give them another year. If they draft half as well as they drafted last year they will be competitive..
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
confident yes Overconfident... Let's hope not
everybody makes mistakes…. which is why I wish he would trust his coordinators more…. My old Shanny bitch…
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 30, 2010 8:04 AM MST up reply actions
Yes I do . . .
Especially Ayers. Mayock and Lombardi both said Ayers may be the best defensive player in his draft class a year or two down the road. They see a star in Ayers, so I do, too.
Of course, the jury’s still out on Alphonso. But that is the point: The jury is still out . . .
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
I agree
I think Ayers could be a star. I expect to see a major jump this year.
Corner is one of the toughest positions to play so I’m not going to crucify him just yet. He needs to have a better 2nd year however.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
You guys watch as much Broncos as I do so I’m glad you two see a star. That would be huge for Denver if Ayers turns into a good player.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I think he was stuck in the middle...
And this is purely speculation on my part, but coming out of they draft they werent sure if he was going to be a DE or an OLB. He projects well as an OLB. Like was mentioned before. Mayock thought he was the best prospect coming out of the draft. He tends to hit a lot more on his picks then misses. Being the crap shot that the draft is I’ll take his word on it. It was noted though that a lot of Ayers problems were on the learning side of it. Thats why he couldnt get on the field earlier in the year. Hoping he has a full off season of training and studying he can get off to a great start.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Best Defensive prospect
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Boy did I NOT see a Best defensive anything when I watched Ayers. I just saw a rookie that often looked completely lost.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Not many of our 2009 rookies. I don’t see many good football players in that group.
I think Elvis is a great player. Ditto on Marshall and Ryan Harris. I think Clady is great, but I don’t think he likes blocking for Orton since Kyle makes him look bad.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Haha
He doesn’t “like” blocking for Orton? LOL
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 30, 2010 9:10 AM MST up reply actions
Where did you read that?
Clady probably doesn’t like blocking with a weak sister playing next to him. Nonetheless, since Clady made the Pro Bowl and All-Pro teams this year, I don’t believe he had occasion to worry about looking bad . . .
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Yes I do...I see Ayers, McBath and Moreno being VERY GOOD players....
But then again, I try not and write players off after 1 year, but hey, thats just me I guess.
I have never ever met anyone like you McG who is so prone to write off players after one season…especially McBath who had a VERY good first season until injured.
I like how you call like you see it…but I dont agree with your above post my friend!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Would you trade
Marshall for DeMeco Ryans and Greg Jennings, also both second round picks.
Of course you would.
I would love for them to add another high pick, and maybe it will happen.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 1:17 PM MST up reply actions
Since I think McBath looked like a good prospect, I felt it made sense to use our recent draft history. It’s a lot more apples to apples.
But you want to cherry pick two drafts and two different teams. Why not pick Brees and Woodley then.
So yes, I would trade Marshall for Brees and Woodley. I would not trade Marshall for two 2nd round picks. Marshall is a HOF talent that backs it up with production. Trading him for 2nd round picks is trading him for $30 cents on the dollar.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I would trade Marshall
for David Harris and Woodley. Two Michigan linebackers taken back to back.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Or Clinton Portis and
Denver got incredibily luckying landing a premier player like Marshall in round 4. That kind of luck strikes once a decade. Our odds of getting a player like Marshall with a few 2nd round picks is very low.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Actually
Denver got both Marshall and Doom..
thats quite the draft
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
And Cutler and Scheffler in 2006. Don't sell them short. They had an outstanding draft in 2006.
Three great players and a good player in one draft is a good day.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 29, 2010 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
Forsure.
I seem to be in the minority in my feelings regarding Cutler. I would take that trade back in a heart beat. But., I keep that on the down low since most people dont even like hearing his name mentioned.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I don’t know, if so – only because we didn’t make the Ayers and Quinn picks count & I don’t think either will pan out in the long run.
I don’t miss Jay, but I don’t think Orton is the answer.
As of today – Denver won this deal over Chicago (easily) so you have to give McDaniels props there. I really doubt Chicago makes the trade in retrospect.
Culter is a pick machine.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Ironically enough
The only Pro Bowler from that whole trade was the “throw in” Mr. Johnny Knox
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:48 PM MST up reply actions
I don't feel you're in the minority.
Think about the value that Jay Cutler was. We got him in the first round and traded him for, essentially, 2 1st rounders, a second rounder and Kyle Orton. If I had to do it over again, I would jump at the chance.
What we’ve done with those picks remains to be seen if those picks will work out, but from a value standpoint, I’d take it, especially considering how Orton played in his first year.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Why has nobody made a live-action game of Chutes and Ladders? I'd be first in line.
by Troy Hufford on Jan 29, 2010 6:18 PM MST up reply actions
Why not Clinton Portis and Mike Singletary (both 2nd round picks).
Denver got incredibly lucky landing a premier player like Marshall in round 4. That kind of luck strikes once a decade, if that. Our odds of getting a player like Marshall with a few 2nd round picks is very low, even in the 2010 NFL draft.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
My guys were from the same draft
In the second round. My point is that you can hit big on two second round picks.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:26 PM MST up reply actions
And you can miss big too.
Or like Denver did in 2009 (draft a mixed bag – which is more usual).
I bet the hit to miss ratio on 2nd round picks is less than 50%, but probably more than 40%. I have no idea honestly. I’ve read that the hit/miss ratio on 1st rounders is 50%.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I did a wiki
on our draft picks again today. Our first rounders are atrocious. Willie Middlebrooks, Delta Oneil, George Forster..
Thats why I tend to take a wait and see approach as opposed to drinking the Koolaid and assuming everyone will be great.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Which is why I hate the idea of trading a bona fide and home grown star for draft picks.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
yeah
I was on the fence for a while regarding marshall. Recievers that get traded dont do a whole lot but the more I think about it the more I dont want Marshall to get traded. His antics drive me nuts at times but he is definitely passionate about playing ball.
I think this could be a case where the grass isnt always greener on both sides
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Take a gander at the Pats' picks while McD has been tehre
Not saying he’s been the source of their success, but dating back to 2001:
2001: Richard Seymour
2002: Daniel Graham
2003: Ty Warren
2004: Vince Wilfork
2005: Logan Mankins
2006: Laurence Maroney
2007: Brandon Merriweather
2008: Jerod Mayo
Not too shabby, eh? In fact, I don’t see a bad player on that list. He knows what to look for in terms of talent.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
What are you talking about. McDaniels didn’t make those picks. Paoli and Bilicheat made those picks.
Might as well give McDaniels credit for winning the 1998 Super Bowl.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I'm saying he knows what to look for an evaluate
As far as talent in the draft. I said I’m not saying he’s the source of those players’ success, but he’s seen how elite teams are built. He knows what kind of players to look for.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
Isn't Wilfork Coming a Possibility
It might be fun to watch the Pats implode with Marshall and Randy Moss crying about who gets the ball more.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 29, 2010 4:11 PM MST up reply actions
I'll give you that
In fact, if you look at our teams draft picks for rounds 2-4 over the last 10 years we have more first rounded misses then the other rounds.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
good point but with value you must consider the odds!
the odds decrease dramatically with each round that a player will be successful! And to the picks for proven talent point – even first rounders fail VERY often.
Any trade for picks only is a very risky one and we don’t have the talent to spare.
If we were to take a risk, I’d prefer it be for a very low 1st and take a chance of drafting a STAR.
by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 30, 2010 8:11 AM MST up reply actions
I fear KC might screw us anyway...
… by picking McClain with their first and they do need OL, so they could very well go with Pouncey at #36 beating us to the punch twice…
I think KC could use another ILB now that they've switched to the 34
But the five spot seems early, and they’ve got to protect their bone-head investment in Cassel. I think he got sacked like 45 timesish last year. KC’s got a young linebacker and maybe two that they’ll probably want to feel out before they invest first-round money at the position. I think they’d even take Bryant before an ILB so early. But I’ll be pissed if I’m wrong. And then if they grab Pouncey too, whew. Already getting my blood pressure up
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I don't see why Tampa would want or need BM
Look they are not a player away from being good, and the last thing the need is a prima-dona WR distracting from the team. I think BM would have to go to a team that is a player or two away from contending and has a strong vets to keep him in check, I think Baltimore makes sense, NY Jets may be a spot, but I assume they would force us to take Edwards, NY Giants, maybe a team like Pittsburgh, strange as that seems.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Quick response
Kellen Winslow Jr. They may not be a single player away, but they have a young QB and a top draft pick. They can greatly improve their offense and defense with their first three picks by going after Eric Berry and trading for Brandon Marshall.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly, why get another headache
Can you imagine the headaches with Winslow and BM, I doubt Tampa wants that at this point.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
That's not the point, and Winslow isn't a headache
The point is that the Bucs, though rebuilding, are willing to deal picks for premiere players.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 6:11 PM MST up reply actions
ALL ABOARD THE TIM TEBOW TRAIN
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/mock-draft-version-1
Have us getting Dez Bryant & Tebow with our first two picks.
If only there was a way to get another late first round and second round pick to get Lupati and Pouncey.
HMMM.
B. Marshall to Miami for the 12th and 75th overall picks.
Trade 12th overall pick to Green Bay for the 23rd and 56th overall picks.
With the 11th overall pick Denver selects Rolando McClain.
With the 23rd overall pick Denver selects Mike Lupati.
With the 45th overall pick Denver selects Maurkice Pouncey
With the 56th overall pick Denver selects Tim Tebow
I’d be pretty stoked on that draft. I don’t think we need Dez Bryant as either Gaffney or McKinley will step up. Plus we can add some receiving talent later on in the draft.
Wow that would be an amazing draft even if Tebow floundered in the NFL it would STILL be an amazing draft. And thats just the first two rounds.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
Also
The Packers, in my head, are moving up to take either CJ Spiller or Bulaga
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
Oh dear Lord please make the madness stop!!!
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I like it
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Or maybe I should say plus Number 1
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
hey
don’t face palm me.
thats a perfectly viable scenario. my biggest concern is getting Lupati and Pouncey.
And even if Tebow doesn’t make it as a QB I think he’d be awesome for the Wild Horse formation.
I do love gadget plays.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
I don't think we need to spend a 2nd round pick to hold a clip board for 2-3 years
while we’re trying to continue transitioning our team
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I like the 1st three, but again why waste a pick on Teabow
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Its one of those things...
Hard working, smart, and possessing all the intangibles are the most transferable characteristics.
Talent only goes so far. Do you know how many players with HOF potential are out of the league within a couple of years? A lot.
But a lot of players who work hard and can be developed do quite well. As Bronco fans you should know this. You can throw a stone into Broncos history and hit a would be hero that wasn’t supposed to make it in the NFL.
I view it as this – if Tebow is a bust then the lost value is a 2nd round pick. If he turns out to be a future HOF not drafting him is a gigantic loss.
Its irrelevant. He won’t fall to the 2nd round. The Jags have to pick him up.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
If Tebow is a waste of a pick
Then I fear for the rest of this entire draft.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 29, 2010 6:13 PM MST up reply actions
Tebow is a project player. Very hard to know if he’ll be good or not.
A very risky pick if he goes in round 1. There is a decent chance his game will not translate into NFL success.
There are dozens of better and/or safer picks in the 2010 NFL draft than Tebow.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
I would be ok with this...
Other than Tebow I would love this draft Scenario. I am not on the Tebow train and would rather see us grab someone else, say Taylor Mayes with the 56th pick. That is if his being injured drops him that far.
God I hope so
Even if his coverage skills are lacking he can change a game.
He’ll force fumbles. He has good hands to grab picks.
Watch his highlights. They’re entertaining.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
And going for that big hit he will miss
letting the runner run free to endzone, quite frequently against the NFL competition
Really?
You’re actually banking on a receiver that didn’t catch a single pass last year stepping up?
"If A.J. is not on your team, you hate him. If A.J. is on your team, you hate him less."
-Ozzie Guillen
by Nick Costanza on Jan 30, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
If Marshall Must Go
why not to Tampa Bay? We’re not playing the Buccaneers for two more years and if we can get Antonio Bryant in a trade, I think that’s good for us. Plus, Marshall will learn about the joys of rebuilding. The Buccaneers are in a tough division and while fortunes in the NFL can change swiftly, Josh Freeman is much less experienced than Josh Freeman. Darren Sharper giving him some forerarm shivers might knock some sense into him. Still, if Marshall will show he’s truly changed, I would take him back but enough of this nonsense B-Marsh
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 29, 2010 4:08 PM MST reply actions
*Kyle Orton
- Josh Freeman is much less experienced than Kyle Orton, sorry
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 29, 2010 4:09 PM MST reply actions
Not really . . .
Josh just completed his third year on the field. Kyle just completed his third year on the field. Sitting and watching others play is like sitting at a bar and watching the bartender make drinks. It’s a “hands on” procedure. So Freeman is not much less experienced than Orton.
Also, don’t forget that Freeman played largely in the same system all three years. Kyle was thrust into a radically different system with a different team and different coaches. So, if anything, Kyle just may be effectively less experienced than Freeman.
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Josh Freeman of the Bucs
Just completed his rookie season. He was selected in the 09 draft. There is another Freeman that you could be thinking of.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I haven't been very sharp all day . . .
and it doesn’t look as if that’s about to change . . .
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Thou Art Forgiven
it’s the offseason.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 29, 2010 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
No Tebow, No McCoy!
Once teams start seeing offers from hose teams who need a STUD WR, it will become a 3-4 team bidding war…guaranteed! MSM/pundits can claim all they want that marshall’s value being hurt…sure! Just wait until the bidding wars start. I guarantee several teams will bid his price way up! It’s a win win!
"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM
This has nothing to do with this post but its pretty funny
“10. Denver Broncos – Russell Okung, T, Oklahoma State
McDaniels throws a hissy fit after Clady forgets to send him a birthday card, after which he is kicked off the team, making tackle the position of most need."
I lol’d.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
Marshall to Bucs
Thats would be hilarious. Sending him to a crappy team LMAO. If we do trade him I hope we do send him to a rebuilding team…. maybe the Bills?
by Cali_BroncosFan on Jan 29, 2010 7:29 PM MST reply actions
The Bills were my top pick for Cutler last year.
Would’ve loved to see him up there fighting with TO all season. Turns out, TO didn’t throw as much of a fit as I would’ve expected though, so Chi worked out well.
I think it makes sense
but we are on different pages on the draft
CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!
I came late to the party
I voted “no” largely because I thought I remember reading that TB had stated that they were not interested in Marshall.
Great, thought provoking & discussion generating post.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Whoever wants Tebow is out of their mind
Kyle Orton is definitely better than Tebow, and by a long shot. If you want a mobile QB, get Colt McCoy, since he can actually throw the football with accuracy. We’re not gonna waste 1st or 2nd round picks on intangibles. And McDaniels isn’t near stupid enough to draft Tebow, because if you’ve noticed, he loves QBs that can throw intermediate routes accurately, and if you watched or read accounts of Tebow at the pre-Senior Bowl stuff, you would know he would be inept for McDaniels’s strategy.
The situation that I have seen that made the most sense to me was the Broncos trading Marshall to the Rams, having the two teams swap 1st round picks, and maybe the Rams throw in a pick in a later round. Ndamukong Suh eats offensive lineman for breakfast.
"If A.J. is not on your team, you hate him. If A.J. is on your team, you hate him less."
-Ozzie Guillen
Tebow NO NO
Senior Bowl stats: 8-12 for 50 yds 2 fumbles. Has everyone here forgotten that we drafted a young guy out of Cal last year who looks a heckuva lot better than T-bone or Pony Boy and who, with the help of McD’s excellent QB coaching skills could turn out to be the next great hope of Denver, rather than the next great hype. We don’t need no stinking QB (we have Phil’s kid for that). Sorry, chris, I like you and thought you had some good skills. I guess busting your spleen scared ya, since you played like a rabbit running from the dogs. Bradenstater is going to be a very good QB, IMO, and move him up behind Orton. As for BMarsh, I don’t care either way. If he’s ready to settle down and play prefessional football, then I hope he stays. If not, toss the bum.
Add to last
Of those 50 yards passing included the longest completion of 11 yards in waht the press described as a “pro-style offense” and if that isn’t enough to move you off this guy as even a second round pick, then I don’t know what will.
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