MHR University - Offensive Line "gap blocking", running terms, and other thoughts
I've been out of the loop for a couple of weeks with some work related matters, and have returned to answer a few questions from my e-mail box. The questions I'm getting the most relate to our team's change in offensive line blocking.
It certainly looks like Denver will lose the identity it had as a zone blocking team. While I'll miss it (and the advantages that go with it), I also realize that there are advantages to gap blocking as well. (Gap blocking, as we'll see, is the standard form of blocking. It is sometimes erroneously referred to as "man" blocking).
In today's University piece, we'll look at several issues. We'll look at gap blocking, and how it differs with zone blocking. We'll also go into some other areas as well, such as my thoughts on recent coaching changes, as well as needs going into the next season.
More below the fold...
Change in Defensive Coordinator
First, I'll say that I'm sorry to see Nolan go. He's a terrific defensive coordinator. However, I'm very well pleased with the decision to elevate Martindale (aka "Wink") to the DC position. First, he seems to have the respect of the players. Like a few other coaches on the team, he has a background with an AFC West rival (in Wink's case, the Raiders). Most importantly, he gives continuity to a team that has faced turnover in the position every year for some five years (by coming up from within the organization).
Another thing I liked about the move was that it gave Brian Dawkins the forum to express something that (once again) typifies professional, elite players:
If that's where Josh feels like we need to go in order for us to take the next step, to be on the same page, then that's what I am willing to do. I told him and I'll tell you guys; I'm behind him so if he made that decision there's a reason why he made it. I trust him and I'm going to go out, and whoever he brings in as Defensive Coordinator, he's going to have Brian Dawkins on his side.
Dawkins is the voice of leadership, maturity, and professionalism amongst players in the NFL. If he backs this coach, that ought to be good enough for most folks.
Last, I like the move because it means we aren't going down the NE hand-me-down road. The Broncos had been considering DC Pees for the position. He has a solid record, and is respected for his work. While his health issues and age could be a concern (for a team needing continuity), I was more bothered by another issue. I respect Josh McDaniels, and continue to be in his corner, but I also feel he dodged a PR bullet by picking Martindale over Pees.
The Houston Texans have been the "hand-me-down" team of the Broncos for some time, and have never been able to compete in the AFC South against the always solid Colts and the sometimes solid TItans and Jags. A team can't compete or gain credibility (in my opinion) by not only imitating, but scavanging a particular team. While a young coach ought to emulate his elders and the program he came from, he loses points for creativity, indivdualism, and player development if he only copies his old team and takes assistents and players from that program.
So while I was a little concerned about the consideration given to Pees, I'm relieved that the "hand-me-down" debate was short circuited before it even got started.
However, I'm going to be up front about another coaching areas that concern me. Josh's brother has been brought in to coach the QB position. I don't know anything about Josh's brother, and I'll assume that he's a very solid QB's coach. However, it always bothers me when coaches elevate their own family members in coaching positions. (In fairness, Coach Mike Shanahan did the same thing, and many coaches do it). It isn't that the individual assistent doesn't deserve the position, but the appearance is often questionable. I imagine that there are also dynamics in-house that can complicate relationships between coaches, as well as coaches and players. I wish our new QB's coach the best, and support the move. (Josh comes direct from coaching at the HS level, though he did some work as a grad assistant for the Minn. program. He was also an outstanding QB for Kent State).
Needs Going Into Next Season
Perhaps the most obvious place to start is at OC and OG on offense. I have read arguments both ways on whether Kuper ought to stay with the team, but I think most folks will agree that we need at least one OG, as well as an OC to replace Wiegmann at Center. With the OL likely to switch to more of a gap scheme, we'll have to watch Clady and Harris for how well they adjust at the OT positions. But for now, Denver should pursue an OC and OG.
Next, we have to ask the hard question, "Is Orton our QB of the future, or is he holding the fort until we bring someone else in?" I like Orton. He is at once both a smart and careful QB. He may not win a lot of games for us, but he doesn't throw away games like some other QBs can. I expect him to be improved next year too. However, if Denver is within striking range of a top tier QB in this year's outstanding draft, do we pull the trigger? This seems like a tough call to me.
WR is going to be a concern. I am of the belief that Marshall must go. Marshall's change in behavior this season was due in part to his understanding that his value would drop if he continued to be-clown himself. Marshall has continued to assert that he doesn't want to be in Denver, and he has worn out his welcome with other players and staff. Some folks think that he should be forced to stay and play, but that argument doesn't carry much weight when measured against the history of similar situations in the NFL.
I think that Royal will pick up his game (with Marshall no longer being the "go to" target). I also think there are other good receivers still on the team (Gaffney, Llyod, Stokley, McKinley). But given concerns for age, as well as the obvious hole Marshall leaves behind, Denver should consider pursuing a decent WR with moderate draft compensation.
I think the team can continue at RB with the present roster. I also think the team can continue at TE. If Scheffler leaves the team, Denver won't suffer so much as one might think. Scheffler is an outstanding receiving TE, but with an emphasis on blocking TEs in Denver, Denver can rely on Graham and Quinn. The bigger consideration may be Graham's age, and the need to shop now instead of later.
On Defense, I think the team needs some work. Age is an issue at the corner and safety positions. The team needs to evaluate the back-up players acquired recently (such as McBath and Smith) to determine how big the need is. However, even if the team trusts the younger players to step up, Denver faces the loss of about four or five defensive backs in the next couple of years.
Assuming (as I do) that the 3-4 is here to stay, Denver still needs some work at both LB and DL. Ayers does well enough stopping the run at LOLB, but (as asdqqq recently wrote) he might be even better as a LE. It is a matter of taste though, and I think Ayers stays put (along with frequent on-field player Haggen). D.J. Williams continues to be a solid LB, and Davis fills the role of inside linebacker well. Obviously Dumervil is a pass rushing specialist at ROLB, but so long as he can tackle well, we can overlook his coverage abilities because he is so darned good at what he does. We have other options at LB currently too (such as Woodyard and special teams standout Reid). Still, if the best available player on the board is a LB, a change could be made.
My concern is the line. McBean, Fields, and Peterson are all good enough on paper, but the play towards the end of the season fell off. As with the LB position, I have no problem with taking a "best available" approach. If the best available is a NT or DE, bring him in and let the competition for this summer begin.
Here are my own priorities for the re-loading season.
1. Get Marshall out of here, and get whatever can be had in terms of compensation. We have a lot of good receivers on the roster, but a "decent" #1 or #2 receiver with a couple of mid round picks would be fair compensation. In the best scenario (though unlikely), we trade Marshall for another elite WR straight up.
2. Determine if Orton is our man for the next several years, or if we can do better. This is a tough call (remember the Plummer / Cutler issue, or the Cutler / Orton issue). If Orton is the man, fine. If not, target one of the QBs in the draft. At the very least, Denver needs to replace Simms, so a late QB pick is probable.
3. We need an OG and an OC pretty much right away. An additional OG late in the draft would also be good insurance.
4. In two to three years, we will face the turnover of several elite or (at least) very good defensive backs. Bailey, Dawkins, Hill, and Goodman (not to mention Law) are nearing either retirement or a down turn in performance. We have serviceable and young back-ups in place, but we don't have the talent or numbers to make the transition a smooth one. We need one or two DBs in the mid to high draft range every year for the next three years in my opinion.
5. Best Player Available would seem to solve the other problems nicely. The front seven in Denver's defense is good enough, but a game changer from the draft could shake up the roster and turn the defense into a powerhouse. A receiver or a blocking TE would solidify those two positions for years to come. Any draft gamble on OG, OC, WR, or DB would be worth the competition in camp.
Gap Blocking versus Zone Blocking
"In a lighthearted moment, the Denver Broncos offensive line reenacts the famous 'mooning' scene from the movie Braveheart (Battle of Stirling Bridge). Jay Cutler plays the role of John de Warenne, 7th Earl of Surrey. It was later rumored that this was Cutler's "last straw", and led to his contempt for his team." photo courtesy of BroncoTalk.net
For a quick review of what Zone Blocking is really all about, read here.
"Gap blocking" is a rarely used term, but is the correct term for the standard blocking that we see from offensive lines in football. Some folks (including coaches and even myself) will use terms that aren't technically correct from time to time. "Power running" is a running scheme that can be used with either a gap or zone blocking OL. In some cases, "power run" refers to a particular type of running play. "Power blocking" is an often used term, but refers more to individual technique than to a holistic OL approach. Some folks may even use "man blocking", since they may assume this is the opposite of "zone" blocking.
Coaches that use the incorrect terms are likely to use "power" (rarely "man" if ever). This doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. In fact, I've read the term everywhere from a recent McDaniels press conference to multiple publications (including our own MHR and other major blogs and media outlets). While I may be a stickler for correct terminology, I give this term a pass (and not only because I've been guilty of it). Here's why:
In gap blocking, the runner may use any number of techniques to effect yardage. He may run "downhill", he may "power ahead", he may "one cut", he may sprint, dive, bounce, or any of a number of other approaches. However, "power running" is more likely to be used with gap blocking than with zone blocking. Power running is also the most common running technique. So amongst coaches and writers, it is understandable that the terms seem to go hand in hand. Most OLs use gap blocking, and most run plays use a "power run" approach (whether or not the play is an actual power run "play").
For the purposes of this article, and to prevent confusion, we'll use the term "gap block". I'll go ahead and define the different terms for both blocking and running to further simplify the concepts.
Zone Block- In the zone block (which we'll call "zb", not to be confused with "zone blitz") each OLman stays shoulder to shoulder and starts to move in the direction of a run play. (We'll discuss pass zone blocking a little later). They will either block an opposing player 1:1 or 2:1. On the 2 to 1 blocks one of the OLs will break off of the block to go to what is called "the second level". Here, a LB is blocked. That is the simple idea behind the zb. The runners lane may or may not be predetermined.
Gap Block- The standard run blocking scheme of most football teams. In short, each OLman targets an opposing player and moves him away from a runner's predetermined lane. Also, an OLman (or lead blocker) may target a gap and attempt to run through it to ensure a passable lane for the runner.
Power Run- When a runner has a predetermined lane (or on some sweep plays, a route) that he is dedicated to. He commits himself to the lane, does not "juke", and gains as many yards as possible.
Power Block- Instead of blocking the opposing away away from the play (by placing himself between the opposing player and the runner), the technique is used by an individual to force the opposing player backwards. If successful, the defensive player is off balance or knocked down (a "pancake").
Downhill Running - Often confused with "power running". While power running is type of overall approach to running, "downhill" running refers to the technique used by a runner (who is often "power running") where the runner keeps his legs moving even while being hit or tackled. Years of experience shows that a runner with powerful legs can ensure extra yardage by ignoring balance and just "plugging ahead" with his legs. This is hard to train because a runner's natural inclination is to stay upright. But if a runner keeps his legs moving, he is likely to gain more yardage than slowing down to maintain balance.
One Cut- This is also an unnatural way to run that must be trained (which is why few runners are one cutters). The technique requires patience and good field vision. In this technique, a runner rarely has a predetermined lane. He starts towards one edge of the field, sees a lane created, and turns back towards the center of the field to take this lane. After years of learning to hit a predetermined gap, most runners fail to adapt to this scheme. The technique takes advantage of opposing players being pushed against the grain, and "free" defensive players (those players not in contact with another player) who are heading in the (now) wrong direction.
Sprint - A running technique where the focus is to beat a defender to a predetermined area of the field. Speed is the emphasis. It is to be hoped that the players momentum will carry him through any attempts at tackles.
Dive - A running technique (and a play) where a runner aims for set yardage, regardless of down and distance. This may involve a literal "dive" by the player, but may not. This is often used for short down yardage, goal line plays, or plays to get near enough to first down to set up a pre-arranged short yardage play.
Bounce- A technique usually reserved to short but stocky players in closed space, the technique has the runner glance off of potential tacklers and even team mates in order to build acceleration for short yardage. Rare at the pro level. (These player types are sometimes referred to as "pinballs" or "bowling balls").
There are, of course, many more terms associated with running techniques, runner types, and offensive line blocking techniques. For our purposes though, we want to differentiate between "zone" blocking and "gap" blocking, which are by far the two most common blocking schemes in football (with zone blocking being a distant second in terms of usage).
There are advantages and disadvatages to both schemes. However, it is my opinionthat short yardage runs are NOT an advantage of one scheme over the other. Because we often hear "power" associated with gap blocking, we may tend to think that "power" running is more, well, "powerful". However, with the exception of dive plays, any running play has the goal of picking up as many yards as possible. Even a brute force power run up the gut will hopefully turn into a big play.
The quickest way to get yardage (in theory) is to go straight ahead, right? Right. However, if we take the straight line, euclidean approach to running the ball, doesn't it also follow that we want the back closest to the line to be the runner (as in - the FB)? Not necessarily.
How a team creates the gap is the difference between zone and gap blocking. Any type of running style or technique can be used with both blocking schemes. A team can still hit the gut in a predetermined lane with a power run or even a dive while running a zone block. But the difference in short yardage effectiveness (or lack of difference in my case) between the two schemes is debatable and only my opinion.
Here is what we DO know for certain. Denver has dropped their links to both zone blocking and one cut running with the ouster of the former OL coach and RB coach. Denver is almost certain to switch schemes to gap blocking. With that in mind, here are some things to watch for.
- Denver may not have to place as much emphasis on run blocking WRs as before. While we will still follow the NE model (some run blocking by WRs is expected), the intensity for blocking WRs will lower somewhat.
- Less emphasis on mobile QBs (since the bootleg will have less prominance).
- Bigger OLmen. These are easier to find, but then again, we'll be competing with the rest of the League for these guys.
- Less emphasis on one cut runners. I also expect that we will move more towards "power" type backs than speedy backs.
- Our TEs will get away from the Scheffler and Sharpe types, and move more towards blocking.
- The defense will benefit from practicing against the type of OLs they are most likely to see during a given season.
~~~~~
If there are any questions for me or any of our knowledgeable staff or members, this is a great place to leave them. No question is "dumb", as MHR is a safe haven for fans of the game both new and experienced. Fire away!
94 comments
|
15 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Thanks HT!!! Awesome!
McDaniels mentioned in a presser that they were going to blend the two styles some… he specifically mentioned running some “Inside Zone” schemes…. Got some insight into exactly what that means?
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Jan 30, 2010 12:08 PM MST reply actions
Great question.
You really want the “advanced stuff” huh?
: )
The term “inside” (when talking about zone blocking) refers to the initial direction of the RB.
On an inside zone, the back is aiming for a spot just inside the OT. On an outside zone, he is aiming for a spot just outside the OT. On a stretch, he will aim just inside the outermost defensive player (almost always a corner). The only difference between the three types of zone blocks routes is the initial direction the RB aims for before he cuts.
For what it is worth, I think too much blending got us into the mess we had with the OL this year. While every team runs both “gap” and “zb”, teams almost always run one scheme MUCH more than the other. I haven’t read the qoute, but my guess is that McDaniels means that he will run a gap block scheme, but when he runs the zb, he’ll do it conservatively. In other words, he won’t use 90% of the zb plays that a zb team would run.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
I think McD agrees with you on not blending too much, Teach.
His comment specifically was that we were going to “major” in gap blocking.
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 30, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks for the clarification.
I hadn’t read the quote, but I thought that a commitment to “blending” did seem a bit much.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 3:43 PM MST up reply actions
the horse's mouth
McDaniels: the running game will change
New coaches have been hired to teach a new way of running the ball at Dove Valley. The zone-blocking, one-cut running scheme, a Broncos staple since 1995, will not be back.
“Our running game and some of the things we’re going to do next year will definitely change,” Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said Saturday night.
I was writing on this subject over on horse tracks while you were posting here. A key point that I made was that — to my recollection — the identification of our SB team’s scheme as a ZB is misleading and a trope, since those OLs were quite physical and relied on more than the stretch play/outside zone. The stretch play was their “bread and butter” (often heard at that time) but it was not all they did. In other words, we’ve come to identify those OLs by the ZB tag and overlooked how talented they were and how often they still employed gap blocking.
I still regard the Gap V. ZB controversy in short yardage/RZ opportunities as somewhat of an open question (although I do trust you), but it’s not scheme controversy, per se. Our OLs have gradually become smaller when compared to the rest of the NFL, and this is what made me wonder if the problem could be described as a physical mismatch rather than the difference between schemes.
Here’s McDaniels:
“The teams that run the zone play, that’s predominantly what they do,” McDaniels said. “Because if you’re going to be good at that, you’re going to have to be good at that all the time. We’re not doing that. There will be some zone in there, but we’re not going to major in it.”
“We’re going to run some power, we’re going to run some inside zone,” McDaniels said. “There’s no way to exactly characterize our type of running scheme. It’s just not going to be dedicated to the outside zone play. It will be different. But it will be more what I’m used to, and Clancy’s going to do a great job with it.”
no goats, no glory.
Outstanding!
I hadn’t yet read the whole transcript, but it blends perfectly with what you, Jeremy, and I have been saying.
1) Having read the entire quote in context, I can see that Coach used the terms “power” and “zone” in the proper way. While many folks link “power running” (a running approach) as the opposite of “zone blocking” (an OL scheme), Coach correctly spoke about “outside zone” and “power run” (both running approaches). The key was his addition of “outside”, which I had missed the first time.
2) He reaffirms what I wrote, which is that a team predominantly runs one or the other (zone or gap).
3) I really like his commitment to one approach or the other. While I personaly prefer the zone, it is only a matter of taste. I think we’ll do fine.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 6:57 PM MST up reply actions
my horse tracks comment
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/1/30/1284461/horse-tracks-1-30-10-martindale#29980596
I’m guilty of sloppy use of the terminology but the key point I’ve been trying to make is that we were physically overpowered at times this year, which is actually a pass blocking problem more than run blocking. Size comparisons between other team’s OLs and ours shows we’ve become usually small over time. And it would be impossible to miss the fact that our OL couldn’t hold their own in short yardage.
I’ve been quite happy with ZB but if an unintended (or intended) consequence of selecting for ZB-type OL is that we’re physically overmatched then maybe it’s time to move away from ZB.
no goats, no glory.
I agree that it is an open question.
I hope that I was very careful to point out that it is only my opinion that there shouldn’t be a difference between the two schemes in short yardage. It is certainly not a settled issue.
Here is where my opinion is formed. First, the difference in the two schemes is how the gaps are opened. Whether by brute force or by agility and teamwork, a gap should be created in either instance. Second, short yardage seems to be an issue for any team for some stretches during a season, but (it seems to me) that only the ZB team will get blamed for size as a variable.
The value of the scheme is the reputation for more yardage than that garnered by gap blocking teams. Bear in mind that pretty much all run plays are not aimed to be “short or long” yardage plays, but start with the intent to just get some yards with the hope that longer yards are the result (in other words, neither ZB not gap is specialized with the intent to be a long or short yardage scheme).
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 2:48 AM MST up reply actions
confounding
Much of the controversy has only begun with the decline in our OL and that decline was itself partly attributable to moving away from ZB. Therefore, the scheme issue is partly or largely a red herring.
We didn’t have anything to complain about earlier in this decade. In fact, ZB was given credit for our success.
Analysis of this issue, HERE, fails to show a short-yardage advantage for gap blocking. In fact, it seems to tip slightly to ZB for short yardage situations (less “stuffs”), although prevalence statistics are still open to interpretation, besides other difficulties with analysis.
Given that fans are preoccupied with their own team and only rely on impressions of the success of other teams, which is a notoriously inaccurate way of measuring things, I’d say that our problems are related to personnel with some disruptive effects from switching schemes. It should be noted that questions about the effectiveness of ZB in short yardgage appeared at a time when we moved AWAY from ZB.
I think that one of the biggest problems on the OL has been the loss of Nalen, and it was compounded by the decline of Hamilton. Our decline in the running game started in 2008, although it was overlooked because of a robust average per carry. However, the total yards were down and we were successful by setting up the run with the pass.
no goats, no glory.
Agree 100% with your thoughts on this.
It will be interesting to see where the team goes from here onwards. I’ll miss the zb, but I’m excited to see how we do with a new approach. I hope the transition goes better than ’09. I also hope that Clady and Harris are able to do well in the gap program.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
I haven’t read this yet, but before I do I just want to say that I am PUMPED that MHR University is back HT, it’s my favorite!
OK, I’m going to go read it now….
Every year (it seems) I have to vanish for a couple of weeks or so.
I’m back and ready to go though. I’ll also have a lot of free days in Feb, so I’ll be much more available at MHR this month.
Also, if anyone has any ideas for future MHR-U articles, please let me know.
Thanks for the kind words aLuffabo!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Good to hear!
My idea/request for a future article would be regarding our new offensive system and how it relates to our WR’s compared to our old system. One of my frustrations last year was that it seemed like all (or at least the majority) of our WR routes ended in them standing anywhere from 5-12 yards downfield facing the QB waiting for the throw with no forward momentum or chance to pick up yards after the catch. I am also curious as to whether you think this was a result of McD’s lost faith in our offensive line as the season progressed, or if it his ultimate vision for our “ball control” offense. My hope is that with improvement in the interior of the O-line, we will see more of a vertical threat instilled in the offense next season (ala Moss in NE). Ultimately, a breakdown on what kind of WR routes and responsibilities exist in this system, and what you think we will see next year would be awesome!
Loved the “Gap” article… the definitions were especially useful. You can count me in on the many people (I’m sure) who had those definitions either mixed up or completely wrong.
I think that the offense...
…this past year was devoted to the concept of high percentage, low risk pass plays. Catching a ball in stride can lead to more yards, but it is also hard to complete such a pass. There is also more risk of turnover. My guess is that a new system and a new QB will force most teams to play a very cautious passing game.
If Orton has good protection next year, we may be able to open things up a little. Royal (in particular) is a player who is best when catching the ball mid stride, and would miss Cutler the most in terms of compatibility.
I think the offense will remain pretty much the same, but should become more effective with the same players in place. If this is the case, the playbook can open up a bit more, allowing a little more in terms of verticle passing and slant routes. However, I imagine that the deep field threat will remain more of an occassional threat than a common play.
The key to having more fun with the passing game next year comes down to two variables in my opinion. One is that we need to have excellent pass protection. Second is that we have to be able to sell the run to open up the pass. For these reasons, I think that we need to shore up our interior OL more than anything else this re-loading season.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 2:41 PM MST up reply actions
Chicken and egg question
One thing I noticed this year is that as our pass offense got less and less inventive, opponents started loading up the short area of the field which really hurt our run game. More than anything what we need is to open up the passing game and spread out the defense more, that will open up the run as well.
As long as we are passing heavily with screens, stay routes, short slants and ins, we are not going to be able to force the defense away from the line which means we will always be in a situation where there are more defenders than blockers.
To comment on Royal, he is a guy who relies on his cuts to get separation, so he needs to get the ball on the move after he makes his cut because that is when he is open. Orton didn’t seem comfortable with making those passes, he tended to throw inside to guys who either in a missed zone or in situations where he could hit a guy who was shielding the defender, which is difficult when you are Royals size.
Royal this year partially as a result of QB play and partially as a result of playing a role not well suited to him underperformed badly, he was far off Marshall and Gaffney in terms of receptions, yards, TDs and 1st downs compared to targets.
Really what we need is for the passing game to improve so we can run the ball and for the run game to improve so we can pass the ball.
If I remember correctly
McDaniels has said that his offensive scheme relies on the 15-20 yard passing range to open up both the running game and the long ball.
I think teams picked up on this, and that, added to Orton’s tendency to check down very quickly — often due to a collapsing pocket — along with the inconsistent ability of our receivers to explode off the line, severely hindered the ability of the offense to use the mid-range passes to open up the rest.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Jan 30, 2010 7:43 PM MST up reply actions
it is all good
Except that after the Patriots game our passing game relied on 0 – 5 yard passes more than anything, and that is no way to open up the run game. We ran too many smoke screens, too many bubble screens, too many quick hit routes and not enough deep crossing routes, corners, outs etc (except vs Kansas City when the medium pass came back along with a handful of interceptions).
In the Washington game
I was shocked at how strongly Washington’s defenders were biting on the short routes. In the two long TDs the specifics were different— on one the defender was beaten by Marshall, on the other someone blew his assignment—but it seemed to me the underlying cause was the same. The defenders were biting so hard on the short routes that they were caught flat-footed when we went vertical. I’m still not sure why we didn’t learn a lesson from that game and mix in some hesitate and go routes to keep the defense from crowding the line of scrimmage (unless it was our deteriorating ability to protect Orton while the longer route developed).
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Great article Steve!
Thanks a lot! Very excited to hear that you’ll be back on MHR more! Knowledge like this is why this site is my favourite on the web.
Not related to the blocking, but I love reading books on football…and pretty much any subjects on it. Economics, draft, teambuilding, scouting, tactics, etc…love it all. Since I am in the US at the moment, you have any books that are MUST reads in your opinion, and that I should pick up? (assuming you read them too ofcourse).
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
I hope some folks will chime in with their favorites.
I get this question all of the time. In fact, this question pops up at least two or three times a week in my e-mail, and my answer is always the same, poor response. I’m afraid that anything I know about football has come from three sources. First, from learning under the coaches who taught me. Second, from some darned good seminars I used to attend. And last, much of my knowledge of “off field” issues (like the draft, scouting, etc) come from MHR.
In terms of books, I really haven’t read much about football. I love to read, of course. However, I’ve spent much of my adult life coaching, and the time I’ve spent outside of coaching has been devoted to other pursuits.
I always cringe when I have to give that answer, but I just don’t have a recommended football reading list.
Anybody?
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks.
I did kinda expect that, but figured it was worth a try ;).
Im sure others at MHR will have some suggestions.
Really hope I can at some point learn from coaches myself
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
Football books in particular?
Friday Night Lights, while dry in stretches, is an excellent book. It was written long before the TV show came along. The book itself deals with economics, race, and ultimately is a kind of microcosm of the hard realities of life in small-town America. I haven’t read it in what seems like ages, but I remember the “football action” parts of the book were very well-written, and I found myself genuinely caring for the players…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
I'll dictate a list tomorrow and will post with a request for other members favorites.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Thanks Em!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 2:51 AM MST up reply actions
I would be more concerned if McD brought in his brother to coach as DC or something...
I have a feeling McD is going to be coaching up the QBs with his brother until he things his brother has a good feel for coaching in the bigs.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
It is a tough call.
My disagreement with bringing in family members is (I admit) a knee jerk reaction whenever it happens. Ben may do an outstanding job, and his presence may not create some odd moments if there is a disagreement between Ben and someone else that Josh has to mediate. It just doesn’t leave me feeling comfortable.
However, as I’ve written, that is always my reaction to bringing in family members on the staff. It may not become a problem at all.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
HT, you one of the reasons
the MSM cannot compete with MHR. The level of expertise you lay on us freely is amazing. I applaud your willingness to educate us here. I know we have so many talented people at MHR but as far as sheer football know how, you are the king. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
Thanks, but honestly...
…I learn an awful lot myself at MHR. While I feel comfortable with much of the coaching aspects, I still manage to learn an incredible amount of stuff from the staff and members about everything from the draft to legal, medical, historical, and financial aspects of the game. Sometimes I encounter an issue that deals with Xs and Os that I’ve never considered, and even manage to pick up something new there too.
I enjoy puttting the time into MHR, but to be frank, I get so much more out of it than I contribute.
Thanks for the very kind words Dmitch!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 3:48 PM MST up reply actions
rec'd Steve
Thanks for yet another great write up. Every time you post, I learn something new.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Great job!
I’m starting a series on draft prospects and their fit into the Broncos’ scheme, and I thank you very much for your insight that I will gladly poach (and cite) when the time comes to address the O-line.
A quick note: I can be as picky as anyone regarding “correct” terminology, and I applaud you for attempting to maintain the purity of the language. That being said, I often feel that as widespread as confusion is, one is better off simply using the most socially acceptable term and clearly defining what one means by that term, even if it isn’t objectively “correct”. The football world is, without a doubt, a social constructivist’s dream. :)
A few questions for you (links to other MHRU articles are fine as answers): 1) what is the priority that will be placed on agile O-linemen in this gap-blocking scheme? We already know we want bigger guys — Essentially, I’m wondering where the golden mean is between Andre Gurode and Bruce Campbell (the Maryland tackle in this year’s draft, not the fantastic actor from the Evil Dead movies). 2) what role does pulling/trapping play in a gap-blocking scheme? More or less than zone? and 3) is there a difference between pulling and trapping? Oh, finally: 4) Moreno seems a good fit for either zone (great field vision) or gap (downhill and power runner). Is he a better fit for one or the other, in your opinion?
Thanks for you time, as always!
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Jan 30, 2010 5:09 PM MST reply actions
Agreed on your philosophy of terminology.
It is handy to know the actual meanings. On the other hand, it is just as important to know how to “throw around the lingo” like the “experts”. For example, this past week I heard McDaniels refer to “power running” as if it were opposite of “zone blocking”. It is good to know the meaning of each term, but it is as much (if not more) valuable to know “why” the terms get used incorrectly. Josh knows the difference, but because he DOES know the difference, he is the type to understand why the use of “power running” is associated with “gap blocking”. By knowing both the correct AND common usages of these terms, I think our readers have a deeper understanding of the terms and how to sling them with the coaches and writers.
I have several personal examples of football terms that I mis-use frequently. When I am speaking to another coach, we both understand the mis-use, but also understand the thought that is being communicated.
Here’s a good example (if I may say so myself). When refering to one’s abdomen, both laymen and doctors may say “stomach”. It is helpful to know that the stomach is a particular organ, and the abdomen is an area. But if a doctor is giveing a press conference, he can be forgiven for saying a player has “stomach pain” when everyone knows he likely means abdominal pain. One can be technicaly incorrect, but the meaning is still clear.
On to your good questions…
1) (Nice Evil Dead ref!)
I think we will see a much decreased role in agility from future OL picks. I think the emphasis will be on size and power. Depending on McDaniels’ tastes, there will be varying amounts of stock put into assets next to build, such as agility (as a secondary trait), as well as intelligence, upper body strength, weight, aggression, etc. Agility will still be in the mix, but it will drop from being prime.
2) Pulling and trapping will be much, MUCH more frequent in gap blocking. For the most part, when Denver pulls or traps they are often gap blocking (though there can be a pull used as a wrinkle in a zone blocking play). Expect to see more traps in the new line. How much more will (again) depend on what kind of system we see from McD.
3) Both terms mean pretty much the same thing, and get used interchangeably. However, A “pull” is when an interior OLman steps back, pivots, and goes down the line to pick off a defensive player. A “trap” is the name of a block or play where the “pull” is used. As with the terms I used in the article, many experts will use both terms to mean the same thing, but there is still a technical difference that is worth pointing out.
4) Moreno is special because he can one-cut (1C), which is something that few runners are brought up to do. However, he can run as a 1C or as a standard runner equally well. Here’s a good rule of thumb: Any very good 1C is going to be good at either type of running. A good “standard” runner may or may not be a good 1C. In short, I don’t know how good Moreno will turn out to be, but the change from running predominantly 1C to power shouldn’t affect him at all.
Great stuff Sharpe!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 6:24 PM MST up reply actions
And nice Les Miserables reference!
Probably my second-favorite book.
Thanks for the clarifications. To summarize: it seems that in our Offensive line system, our guys will fit the following mold — tough, smart, mean/agressive, great upper-body strength, versatile. They will be asked to do the following very often — pull/trap, take their man down or at least take him out of the play.
Pending actual game footage, of course.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Jan 30, 2010 7:34 PM MST up reply actions
The scene...
…where Valjean turns himself in to protect an innocent man is very stirring to me. Still, there are so darned many powerful scenes in this book.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 2:53 AM MST up reply actions
"Probably my second-favorite book."
So what’s your favorite book?
Take it easy. But take it. Studs Terkel
Here are my two guesses.
My first guess is the Bible (which seems to be the favorite when folks say, “My second favorite book is….”)
My second guess is the Hitchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (given Sharpe’s sig).
Is there a prize if I’m right?
: )
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
I don't know about a prize
but if you liked Hitchhiker’s Guide, try The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul, by the same author. Great book – Odin is sleeping a lot in a rest home, while Thor is running amok, and private investigator Dirk Gently is investigating things.
Take it easy. But take it. Studs Terkel
Not to get off on another MHR bookclub tangent
but if the humor of Douglas Adams tickles your funny bone, one might give some attention to one of the writers who inspired him, P.G. Wodehouse. It is definitely different from Adams, but it is the same sometimes subtle, sometimes over the top humor, and Wodehouse has a real talent for using language. His wit, in my mind, is rivaled only by Twain…
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 31, 2010 5:55 PM MST up reply actions
You're all close to the mark, but not quite on
While I love Wodehouse — and you MUST see the old “Jeeves and Wooster” DVDs from A&E: young Hugh Laurie and Steven Frye — and Douglas Adams (I have read “Tea Time” as well as “Holistic Detective Agency”), my favorite book is The Lord of the Rings.
Trite, (still somewhat) trendy, but my caveat is that I read them when I was in junior high while Peter Jackson was making “Heavenly Creatures”. The movies were just the culmination of a dream.
"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 1, 2010 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
Hey Steve
Thanks for a good read as always. I’ll be interested to see how the Broncos actual draft stacks up against your vision and that of others on MHR.
The Marshall saga is kind of sad, I think a couple of guys will have to really step up fpor 100 catches. That’s a lot of production to replace. I like the Anquion Boldin idea.
"Kool-Aid Kool Aid, Tastes Great, We Want Kool Aid, Can't Wait"
by littletinybroncos on Jan 30, 2010 5:24 PM MST reply actions
Marshall is a top notch player...
…no doubt about it. Unfortunately, there just isn’t room for a player who doesn’t want to be here.
As BShrout wisely wrote in his fanpost, there may still be some benefit by forcing Orton to distribute the ball more evenly. It is a shame to see Marshall go, but I think the team can adjust well.
In terms of who we actually end up drafting, I’ll stick with last year’s prediction. That is to say, I think that we’ll be surprised more than affirmed in many predictions. If we go best available again (which is fine with me), a lot of mock boards will go up in smoke.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 5:45 PM MST up reply actions
hey steve!
long time no see :D. A lot of people have been advocating drafting tebow in the first round and i just don’t get it. i could just be biased against him but i see him at most as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Do you like him? if so why? (man that sounds like an english essay prompt)
Lol!
I’ll take a bite at the essay.
I’m not sure if Orton is our answer or not. I think the trade for Orton was the right one to make, and I like Kyle. But could we do better?
Right now, I think Denver has much more pressing needs than QB. In fact, we need a good back-up even more than worrying about our starter. With all of that being said, I couldn’t blame a coach for taking a “QB of the Future” if a trade-up can be made without doing much damage to too many other needs on the team. For example, Plummer took us to the AFC Championship game, but who (at the time) could blame Coach for pulling the trigger and jumping up to get Cutler?
QB isn’t on my rader for this year’s draft. But if the scouts think Tebow (or anyone else) gives us a better chance than Kyle, we have to make the move. I don’t follow college ball, so I can’t speak with any authority on Tebow. I will say that I like many of the intangibles that I’ve read about.
If you see him as 2nd or 3rd rounder, and he falls to us, we should take him. He may be a good back-up (at worst) and a good starter (at best). But if he is sitting just above our top pick, it depends on what the scouts think he’s worth. If he falls to us in the first, at least we have a real nice dilemma!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 6:31 PM MST up reply actions
Great post HT!
I can’t wait to see the new blend of gap and zone blocking. I am already soooo excited for next season and the draft feels like it is years away as well. Hopefully this team is moving in the right direction and will continue to feed our appetites over the long off-season.
I also can’t wait for the next MHR University post to come out…I always learn something about football when I read them. Thanks again for the post HT.
Rec’d.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
I think we're moving in the right direction.
I predicted an 8-8 season this year, and that is what we got. I also thought there would be some minor improvements (despite a tough schedule, a new QB, and new coaches and coordinators) and I think we saw those improvements (especially on defense).
For me, losing Nolan at DC and Marshall at WR aren’t the major events for us to worry about moving forward. I’m much more concerned with the massive turnover the team faces at all four starting DB positions. We haven’t staggered our ages and contracts at those positions, so we may face a “perfect storm” in terms of scrambling to fix the problem in a short amount of time. I think that problem will affect the Broncos even more than the proposition of an uncapped year!
Except for that (and “THAT” is a major issue), I think our players are in a better position than last year (and the year before that). All I ever ask for is continued improvement, and I see that for us in 2010. I still don’t see a SB year there, but I think the team will perform better than in 2009. Beyond that, our front office will need to maintain and improve the team in light of my “defensive backs doomsday” even that is on the horizon. (Hmmmm. Souns like a story idea).
: )
Thanks for the kind words and the rec Bholic!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 6:40 PM MST up reply actions
("event" that is on the horizon)
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 30, 2010 6:41 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think we'll see a perfect storm
At Safety we do have McBath and Bruton and Barret. I think we can safely bet on one starter there and two isn’t unreasonable so we would only have to bring in a back up which is a perfetly reasonable thing to draft for when Dawkins and Hill hang’em up.
At Cornerback we are certainly thinner. Smith has promise Carter might pan out but the key is that they are already looking which is starting to stagger things at least a little bit. I think it’s that planning that will keep the storm from achieving perfection.
Keep in mind that we did replace 3 of four guys last year so it can be done.
by Fan in Exile on Jan 30, 2010 7:13 PM MST up reply actions
It can be done.
But consider how we did it. Dawkins, Goodman, Hill and Law where brought in as elite, short term answers. We can afford to do that once, but not on a repetitive basis. I think the jury may be out on McBath, Bruton and Barret. Like you, I’m hopeful that one or two is a capable starter. But it is also reasonable to expect a dropoff from the current crew, each of whom is fantasiticaly talented.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 2:56 AM MST up reply actions
Absolutely
That’s why I want them to get D-line in the draft and FA because that has to improve because I don’t think we can expect our secondary to stay at this level. I still however wouldn’t expect a perfect storm to be coming.
by Fan in Exile on Jan 31, 2010 7:19 AM MST up reply actions
There are some nice possibilities in free agency
Looking at the UFAs listed on Sporting News Today (that are UFAs whether or not a new agreement is signed), there are four quality 3-4 defensive ends: Jets’ Marques Douglas (“At 32, can still make plays as a 3-4 starter”); Patriots’ Jarvis Green (“Would be savvy pickup for 3-4 rotation”); Panthers’ Julius Peppers (could play OLB or DE); and Raiders’ Richard Seymour (“Still can be a disruptive force vs. run and pass”). UFA nose tackles are Steelers’ Casey Hampton (“At 32, Pittsburgh still covets him as its nose”); Packers’ Ryan Pickett (“Coming off big season as Packers’ nose”); and Patriots’ Vince Wilfork (“Remains a dominant interior presence”). If we signed just two of these guys, especially if one of them was a NT, it would be a significant upgrade of the D-line. Notice that three of them are Patriots or ex-Patriots, one or more of whom might be interested in playing under McDaniels. None of them would cost us draft choices.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
The Attack of the Flying Elvii! Now, in theaters near you!
What are these pods? No, wait. They look like football helmets with an advertisement for some Vegas-style Elvis act. It’s moving! What!? No!! Ahhgh!! Aaaaaaaaaaaghhhh!!!
Don’t let them take over!!!
by jayrockstone on Jan 31, 2010 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
(Rolls eyes)
lol
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
Excellent list Spock.
Anything out there on DBs in FA?
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Here you go
Cornerbacks
Dre’ Bly, Leigh Bodden, Ralph Brown, Demarcus Faggins, Travis Fisher, Nick Harper, Walt Harris, Anthony Henry, Roderick Hood, William James, Nate Jones, Ken Lucas, Hank Poteat, Keiwan Ratliff, Dunta Robinson, Allen Rossum, Benny Sapp, DeShea Townsend, Frank Walker, Dante Wesley, Brian Williams.
Safeties
Safeties
Will Allen, Mike Brown, Tyrone Carter, Ryan Clark, Nick Ferguson, Todd Johnson, Sean Jones, Kevin Kaesviharn, Ty Law, Marquand Manuel, Lawyer Milloy, Donnie Nickey, Jermaine Phillips, Pierson Prioleau, Mark Roman, Brian Russell, Bryan Scott, Darren Sharper, Matt Ware, Roy Williams.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Here's a list limited to UFAs
who’ll be unrestricted even if a new CBA isn’t signed:
Cornerbacks;
Leigh Bodden, Patriots (“Found a home in Bill Belichick’s scheme”)
Dunta Robinson, Texans (“If he can stay healthy, he has shutdown potential”)
Safeties:
Tyrone Carter, Steelers (“Serviceable backup who can play either safety spot”)
Ryan Clark, Steelers (“Best suited to contribute at free safety”)
Darren Sharper, Saints (“Age (34) doesn’t keep him from making big plays”)
Roman Harper of the Saints is also listed but with no designation, which makes me suspect he’s restricted.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Turnovers
At safety we are not bad, Dawkins realistically only has 1 more year, but Hill should be effective for at least another 2 or 3 seasons and we have plenty of youth, at least one of whom should be able to start.
CB is much more troubling, Bailey is declining and could fall off completely any given season, his contractual situation needs to be taken care of as well and how much he is willing to play ball on that is unknown. Goodman is good enough as a 2nd CB and should be able to play for a couple more years on his current deal and level, which gives us enough time to groom a starter replacement for Bailey if we ever get around to drafting players who can play. I don’t think any of us expected Smith to stink up the place as badly as he did, but hopefully we won’t mess up the next CB we draft like that.
CB is my biggest position of worry as well, we are extremely vulnerable to injuries, we lack depth and we have no good young talent to go with our old starters. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 1st round CB next year and maybe a 2nd rounder this year.
As for Nolan, it is a loss, but how much remains very much to be seen. Marshall is a huge loss and frankly anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves, he had more offensive yards this year than any other player and more TDs. He is the most talented skill player we have on offense. Chances that we can replace his production are slim and with a struggling run game, a QB who relies on big targets and a passing game that doesn’t utilize secondary options much we are going to be in real doo if our 1st WR is not at Marshall’s level.
Chances that you get a top WR in the 1st round of the draft are less than 50%, chances that you get a top WR later than the 1st round, are miniscule. The talent level in FA is pathetic and we will need to dole out a big contract to get a decent player.
You asked for recommendations for a future post...
How about your analysis of what happened to the defense.
The same players looked like Shaquille O’Neal the first six games, and Ben Stein the last four. I would love to read your insights, which I will forward to the Broncos coaching staff ASAP!
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Jan 30, 2010 7:04 PM MST reply actions
Especially the defensive line
as both our run defense and pass rush suffered as the season wore on. Doom may have led the league but he tailed off considerably during the latter part of the season. (I’m considering the outside backers as linemen who sometimes drop into coverage.) More specifically, how much of the fall-off was due to injuries, how much to wearing down due to a lack of depth, and how much to the line overperforming early on due to good schemes and coming back to earth as teams adjusted? Also, McDaniels mentioned at one time that the team tended to lose confidence when they lost, so that losses turned into losing streaks. It seemed to me the defense was much crisper earlier in the season, with the defenders reacting quickly and decisively—which suggests they were unsure and tentative during the losing streaks. Or did they become tentative (if they did) because they got fooled and burned more often as teams figured out our schemes? I’d love to see an article covering these and any other defensive issues that seem relevant.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Actually
If you look at tackles made, the d-line performed better in the 2nd half of the season, than in the 1st (66 tackles as a unit in the 1st 8 games, 97 as a unit in the last 8), while other important stats remained relatively static (sacks 4/3, tackles for loss 6/6, quarterback hits 7/6).
Our linebackers, on the other hand, had a significant drop in production: tackles 204/179, sacks 23/9, tackles for loss 33/22, quarterback hits 27/24.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Jan 30, 2010 10:22 PM MST up reply actions
That's intriguing
I’m not sure how to interpret it because a 3-4 D-line isn’t supposed to make tackles but is supposed to enable the LBs to make more tackles. Does the drop-off at LB mean the linebackers weren’t doing their jobs, or that the linemen weren’t doing theirs. Reading between the lines of McDaniels’ statements during the season, part of the drop-off was apparently due to a loss of discipline, with players trying to do too much rather than staying at home. That could mean that two-gap linemen were committing too soon to one gap or the other, letting a runner through clean, or that linebackers were overpursuing and thus abandoning their gap responsibilities. Do you know the breakdown in the drop-off at LB tackles between inside and outside backers? I’m wondering about Dumervil especially. Also, it occurs to me that his drop-off in sacks could have been partly due to a less effective pass rush from the down linemen, making it easier to double Doom. Alternatively, teams might have done a better job of picking up our A-gap blitzes without losing outside rush protection. Lots to think about.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Lol
I’m still working on what went wrong with the defense Priestess. Though I will say that Ben Stein may not beat Shaq at basketball, but I’ll still take Ben Stein in almost any other competitive category (such as economics, writing, etc).
: )
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 2:59 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks for the nice read Steve
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Why do you like Zone blocking more than gap blocking?
CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!
Three reasons.
1st, since it is still the less common approach to run blocking, it is much harder for teams to prepare for it. 2nd, for purely aesthetic reasons, I enjoy watching the application of either speed, teamwork, agility, or cleverness in overpowering brute force. Last, it was the source of so much success for Denver for many years.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 3:03 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
because it’s less common, we were competing against fewer teams for the available talent.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Of course.
We are competing against less teams for zb type linemen, but then again, there are less such linemen to be found. Still, all in all, I think the advantage goes to your point – we are competing with less teams for those guys.
Good call!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
And, oddly, as we go an almost opposite scheme
Move and more teams are taking up the zb. I read in one thread that it’s up to 14 (?) squads now. Well, at least we’re competing with a few less ;-)
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Why wouldn't Gap blocking help with short yardage?
CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!
In my opinion...
…both schemes are equal to the task of creating short yardage. Good minds will differ.
Here is my opinion that I wrote some moments ago to Colinski:
First, the difference in the two schemes is how the gaps are opened. Whether by brute force or by agility and teamwork, a gap should be created in either instance. Second, short yardage seems to be an issue for any team for some stretches during a season, but (it seems to me) that only the ZB team will get blamed for size as a variable.
The value of the scheme is the reputation for more yardage than that garnered by gap blocking teams. Bear in mind that pretty much all run plays are not aimed to be "short or long" yardage plays, but start with the intent to just get some yards with the hope that longer yards are the result (in other words, neither ZB not gap is specialized with the intent to be a long or short yardage scheme).
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 3:05 AM MST up reply actions
When teams stack the line of scrimmage
one or two yards from the end zone how much good is finesse? Don’t big bodies make a difference when the defense is committing everybody to stop the run? Too often in such cases it seemed like our guys were either pushed back off the line of scrimmage or allowed penetration. Or was that attributable mainly to a drop-off in performance at left guard and center?
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I think the latter is the case.
When a defense stacks the line, it hurts any kind of run blocking scheme (zb or gap). The way to counter is the same way to attack an un-stacked scrimmage – hit the opposition at an angle and get good blocks at the second level (if zb).
Again, good football minds will differ on this point. My opinion is that a stacked line of scrimmage affects a zb OL no worse than a gap block OL. Just my own opinion.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:07 PM MST up reply actions
Glad you're back, Steve
I’ve been wanting to pick your brain. One thing I hope you can clarify. In your response to Sharpe as a Tack‘s question about the difference between pulling and trapping, you said that “[b]oth terms mean pretty much the same thing.” My impression was that they were different, or at least implied different kinds of runs. My understanding of the trap block is that an interior defensive linemen is allowed to come through and is wiped out by a blocker coming from the side, with the runner then going through the hole the d-lineman just vacated. If so, does the o-lineman whose gap he comes through pull or does he allow himself to get “beat”, and whichever the case is what does he do next? Does he lead the runner through the hole just vacated? Who blocks the “trapped” defender? Didn’t Pittsburgh under Chuck Noll use a lot of traps?
In contrast, when I hear of a pulling guard I think of a sweep rather than the inside run that (I thought) usually accompanies a trap block. (Do the center and left guard cut off backside pursuit while the pulling right guard leads the runner around the left corner (and vice versa for the other direction)? Or… Would appreciate it if you could alleviate some of my confusion.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Perhaps this will help.
Any time an OL steps back to take another assignment, we can say he is pulled. If his intent is to race lateraly and take out anyone who gets through, he is said to be trapping.
It is not the intent to let a defender through to be hit by the trapping player. In an ideal play, the trap player has nobody to hit. However, the assumption is that a player will get through because the play leaves opportunity for an opposing player to get through in most cases, and a defender will take the opportunity if it presents.
I don’t know Noll’s tendancy on this, and would have to look it up.
The difficulty in understanding the terms may come down to this. Remember that any OL on any running play is intended to hit someone. If he is being pulled, he is just moving to hit someone other than the guy directly in fron t of him. If he is trap, he is being “pulled” to run lateraly with the intent of getting a guy in the backfield. All traps result from a pull, but not all pulls are traps. Does that help?
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 3:14 AM MST up reply actions
Great job HT.
Before I read this post I went back and read your Zone post as well (enjoyed the little intermission photograph too. :D). I am glad you cleaned up the terms for everyone here.
Also I was reading your and colinski’s comments to each other and I find myself in the same seat. I’ve always seen the two schemes as a matter of preference and not necessarily one better than the other. I was excited when I watched that presser of Josh talking about the new line approach and I would be shocked not to see him take at least one (if not a few) OLmen in this upcoming draft.
I agree with colinksi also on our short yardage problems not being a matter of scheme or personnel, but strictly that our OL are very undersized. With a careful eye it was fairly easy to see that our line was losing 1 on 1 matchups across the board (though specifically in the interior). That fact jumped out at me in our first game against the raiders (because they are known for drafting size, strength, and speed) when we could never get a push on short yardage. We just didn’t have the meat. I hope McDaniels aims for some heavier guys, but not at the sake of versatility. Whether he wants them big or small, I hope he keeps the flexibility in the line (since we’ve already got WRs and RBs by committee) because we just won’t have the roster room to keep adequate depth.
Great post though. I always enjoy getting schooled up. ;)
History has a history of making fools of the foolish. - Alexander Wall and.... BAM, Coined!
Thanks Marine.
I had forgotten about the intermission photo! In fact, whenever I go back to look at my old articles I remember the “ZB” article for one thing – the troll war in the comments! You ought to read it. It is kind of funny in hindsight. Also funny was our amazement (at the time) about getting more that 100 comments (and some of those ended up being deleted). Only a few months later, 100+ comments stopped being that far fetched. lol
Thanks again!
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks for the info!!
Loved the picture and caption :)
I agree with most, that interior OL is our biggest need. The OG to watch (Iupati) in the Senior Bowl yesterday didn’t impress too much. His blatant holding at times drew a flag that negated a TD. He is a massive individual and doesn’t look to be fat at all.
Do you think he is the caliber of player that could make an immediate impact….can the over-reliance on his upper body be easily fixed??
The Mile-High Magic must be rediscovered!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I confess that I've never been up to speed on college players.
Most folks at MHR probably have a much better opinion on specific players than I do.
However, OLman over-reliance on upper body skills at the senior (?) level of college football can be difficult to “re-train”. Some skills (such as the “one cut” RB we’ve been discussing) are near impossible to re-train, while other skills (re-training good form in a QB) are pretty routine and not too hard.
Some OL skills are harder to undo / fix than others. If Iupati is over reliant on upper body skills to compensate for poor footwork, that could be a problem.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:18 PM MST up reply actions
Bummer....but TY for the reply! :)
The Mile-High Magic must be rediscovered!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I agree that the scheme needs to change as well as the players in some circumstances.
To my eye it wasn’t just size that made us ineffective as the year went on, but also speed and aggressiveness for want of a better term. We weren’t quick off the snap and were getting beaten to the contact point by the opposition thereby losing leverage. The reckless nastiness that dominates the trench just wasn’t there. Everyone seemed to be thinking too much and not attacking the way they need to for success. Thanks for a great lecture HT!
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
by Ponderosa on Jan 31, 2010 9:20 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if that's
the same tentiveness I thought I saw on defense when the tean got down on itself and lost confidence?
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I think you are on to something.
That may also account for why we had so many silly penalties on the OL this year, which didn’t seem to be as much of a problem in the past. Hmmmm.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
Slightly off-topic, but
do you have any preferences for any of the guards coming out of the draft? If Mike Iopati is gone (which may not be a bad thing,) would you favor selecting Mike Johnson, if he’s available? Scouting reports state he is versatile in the sense that he can play both guard positions and can play right tackle as well. He’s also 6’5" and 305 lbs., which is adequate for the new scheme we expect to use from now on.
Thanks for the good article, HT.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
I'm sorry.
I’m the wrong guy to ask about prospects in an upcoming draft. I don’t follow college ball much at all, and don’t start looking closely at players until the week before the draft and immediately after the draft. I’m definately not the “go to” guy on scouting.
Sorry!
: )
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
No worries
I only brought it up because it is in-line with what the vast majority of us here believe is our biggest need going into next year. Iopati has a great deal of talent but may have dropped his stock value a bit, due to his Senior Bowl performance yesterday – had a tendency to hold faster defensive linemen, which could be problematic for him in the NFL.
Mike Johnson however, was steady, impressed some, and can play more than one position on the O-line. Methinks this is the type of player McX will be looking to draft, rather than the most talked about prospects.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Good to see you back in the saddle HT...Looking forward to seeing input leading up to FA and the Draft!
I have a comment, question, and suggestion:
Comment: There has been a tremendous amount of speculation here at MHR regarding Draft and FA scenarios…Much of which seems to ignore the potential and (perceived) lack of expectations of some of the young developmental players currently on our roster…I am a little surprised at the lack of inclusion of some of these players in the discussions (Mocks, etc.) as there are several of our players that seen to fit the profile(s) of exactly what many are proposing we be looking for. I’m sure that it’s not intential but, even in your discussion(s) regarding certain positions of concern I notice little acknowledgement of players like Tom Brandstater, Seth Olson, Chris Baker, Lance Ball, Marquez Branson and Anthony Batiste. All of these players seem to have alot of the specific measurables, prototypical size(s), and projected upsides that many (here at MHR) seem to be looking for in the Draft and FA, except they have the advantage of at least 1+ years experience in our system(s).
Question: (for you and all MHR Members): What is your opinion on how "McDaniels, Xanders, and the Coaching Staff view these players (and a few others as well) in relation to our perceived Draft and FA needs and/or wants?
Suggestion for Post: I would like to propose a post that would take into more serious consideration as to what some of these players have to offer within the context of the overall FA and Draft plan/expectations and assumptions from more of a McX and Co. perspective.
Again…Nice to have you back and thanks for your consideration.
-Richee
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
Good point.
Here is what I think. Current “up and coming, young talent” on the team is rarely a part of the equation because those players are still an unknown factor. Is Brandenstater good? We just don’t know yet. Are Olsen, McBath, Smith, and others (many of whom you’ve named) ready to step up? Who knows. Only the coaches have seen these guys in practice and know their true value (to some extent).
For that reason, I (and some others) discount those players when considering how to build the team in FA and the draft. Otherwise, we are adding another level of speculation on a topic that already involves too much guess work (mocking a draft).
The approach then becomes to take known variables (our starters) and to make our guesses on FA and the draft based on them. Then we hope to see competition during summer training to see who wins out – either a solid draft choice, and experienced veteran, or a surprise talent that has been “hiding” on the roster (namely, one of the types of players you have refered to).
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 1:29 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks Steve
For making the terminology a little clearer. I read somewhere recently that the last Super Bowl winner to use a predominate zone blocking scheme was actually the Broncos in 98. Is that true?
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick
Yes
1st, yes. The teams that have won the SB since Denver are STL, BAL, NE, TB, PIT, IND and NYG. None of them were ZB teams.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t measure the sucess of the ZB based on SBs since the Broncos. The fact remains that Denver has managed (over many years) to get multiple 1000 yard rushers. When a team can do that year after year with (often) no-name RBs, the team has been doing something right.
The comment you read came from Klis BTW.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks again for further insight
This is obviously a huge shift for our team, and affects all the upcoming player decisions. Do you feel that ZB was a harder system to learn? And will larger OL players actually hold up better than smaller ones over the course of the season, or is that just one of those things we assume to be true?
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick
Very good questions.
1) ZB is not hard to learn, in the sense that both the OL and RBs who run in such a scheme at the pro level typicaly have been exposed to it at the college level. For example, one cut runners aren’t created at the pro level – You have a 1C runner or you don’t. For OLmen, the major adjustment is learning the tendancies of your peers on the line (an OLman has to develop a good sense of what his team mates will do in order to know what to do himself).
2) Will larger players hold up better? My opinion is that lighter OLmen are in better shape, have less weight on their joints, and are able to endure the season better than their larger peers. Because of their style of blocking, they also take less punishment. I don’t have evidence to support this, but it is my sense that lighter OLmen would actually have more endurance (I’m pretty confident on that) and be less prone to injury (my guess).
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 4:49 PM MST up reply actions
I like your thinking on point 2.
This is from one of Emmett’s recent posts on this subject:
We know, for example, that Denver seems to be looking to trade in favor of some size on the lines and are willing to let some agility go if that’s needed to get bigger. I’m actually in favor of this tradeoff, much as that might surprise some folks. For years, Denver has worn down late in games and late in the season.
Does anyone keep track of weight/injury ratios, or is this just too subjective for stats?
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick
My guess is just that - a guess.
I would defer to Doc Smith on anything that is related to physiology.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Jan 31, 2010 7:25 PM MST up reply actions
Gap Blocking...
Gap Blocking is another word for the “Power Running Game”. I was fortunate enough to play for John Robinson in college, the inventor of the modern day power game and the best way to describe the scheme is:
-Load up on big O-Lineman
-Every block is a double team to the second level
-Guard and Tackles pull on almost every play
-Fullbacks or TE’s/H-Backs are required to lead block through the hole
-RBs are asked to hit the hole hard and react at the second level not in the backfield in which zone game runners are asked to make their read in the backfield (one cut) then find the hole and go.

by 






























