Denver Broncos News: Horse Tracks - 10/21/10
by John Bena on Oct 21, 2010 5:09 AM MDT
in Horse Tracks
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NFL Game Center: Oakland Raiders at Denver Broncos - 2010 Week 7
If either team is going to become a factor in the AFC West, now is the time to stand up. The Raiders are looking for a QB, again. The Broncos are looking for a running game.
Raiders "have issues" with injured quarterbacks | All Things Broncos
So, Tom Cable, who will be the starting quarterback for your Raiders in Sunday’s game against the Broncos?
Woody's Mailbag: Broncos' current 'D' could contribute to '97, '98 Super Bowl champs - The Denver Post
Woody: I'm not convinced our 2010 Broncos roster is remotely close to having enough players with the right stuff. The cupboard is so bare, it seems a playoff run either now or in the next few years is a fantasy. To prove my point, I think we have a couple of homegrown "championship talent measuring sticks" that we can use. Woody, how many starters from our 2010 Broncos team would be able to replace (or start ahead) of their counterparts on either of our Super Bowl championship teams, in the 1997 and 1998 seasons? Thanks for the Old School vs. New School report card!
Raiders' quarterback woes continue - The Denver Post
JaMarcus Russell is long gone, but the quarterback woes for the Raiders are not.
No such thing as Broncos' Moreno getting too fired up for a game - The Denver Post
To get full value for that ticket, show up early and watch Broncos tailback Knowshon Moreno in pregame warm-ups.
Right away, hypocrisy stands out - The Denver Post
Through the years, it has been a common lament among the players who have been fined by the NFL for tackles they've made.
Analysis: Running the ball more out of the shotgun is best for Broncos - The Denver Post
But one thing may have been overlooked: The Broncos tried to be less predictable in their pass-first offense, especially when trying to run the ball out of the shotgun formation.
Q&A: Broncos' Bowlen won't have a quick trigger finger on a coaching change - The Denver Post
Q: Good teams such as New England, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis and Green Bay seem to have injuries but overcome them and stay in contention. The Broncos, meanwhile, have gotten rid of apparently good players (Jay Cutler, Tony Scheffler, Alphonso Smith, Peyton Hillis and Brandon Marshall). Kansas City has been in the AFC West cellar for a couple of years, and now the Chiefs might be favored to win the division. It's been said that Broncos coach Josh McDaniels has three or four years to turn things around. But if the Broncos finish 5-11 or 6-10 this year, does team owner Pat Bowlen pull the trigger and find another head coach?
"Road Raiders" have attention of Broncos' McDaniels - The Denver Post
Don't let the Raiders' 2-4 record fool you, Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said today.
In name of player safety, NFL starts enforcing rules on illegal hits - The Denver Post
The NFL is a violent world filled with collisions that excite fans — and, at times, cripple players. In an attempt to severely curtail helmet-to-helmet hits that have resulted in concussions and knocked players out of games, the NFL has ratcheted up enforcement with heavy fines and threats of suspensions.
NFL.com news: Players fear crackdown on hits will change essence of football
Ray Lewis is worried about what's happening to his sport.
NFL.com news: Cowboys must change status quo to recover from rough start
The Cowboys are on heightened alert after a 1-4 start. Dallas, coach Wade Phillips in particular, needs to review my five-step plan for recovery to have any hope of saving itself from disaster.
NFL.com news: Steelers vow NFL's crackdown on hits won't change style
They're not sure how they're supposed to tackle. They're also confused about why they must change the way they've played football for years.
NFL.com news: Cool-off period: Upset Harrison excused from Steelers practice
The unhappy Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker was excused from Wednesday's practice after meeting with coach Mike Tomlin about the $75,000 fine the player incurred for a helmet hit on Cleveland Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi. Tomlin believed Harrison needed time to cool off.
NFL.com news: Colts RB Addai might need several weeks for shoulder to heal
Indianapolis Colts running back Joseph Addai could be sidelined for several weeks because of his left shoulder injury, a league source said Wednesday.
NFL.com news: Re-injured rookie Odrick could miss rest of Dolphins' season
espite being limited in Wednesday's practice, the Miami Dolphins rookie defensive end re-injured himself and might miss the remainder of the season, a league source said.
NFL.com news: Ochocinco back to tricks vs. Falcons; Zimmer speaks his mind
Chad Ochocinco's prank started working even before it arrived. He has some of the Atlanta Falcons riled, just as he intended.
NFL.com news: Saints safety Sharper hopeful he can play; Gay placed on IR
All-Pro safety Darren Sharper proclaimed Wednesday that he feels good and hopes to play for the New Orleans Saints this weekend.
Mike Sando's MVP Watch - NFC West Blog - ESPN
The call for not-so-obvious MVP Watch candidates went out Tuesday afternoon.
Miami Dolphins linebacker Channing Crowder says he'll keep using helmet - ESPN
Miami Dolphins linebacker Channing Crowder says the only way of preventing helmet-to-helmet hits is to eliminate the helmet.
Pat McAfee of Indianapolis Colts arrested, charged with public intoxication - ESPN
Indianapolis Colts punter Pat McAfee has become an example for his teammates headed into the team's bye week -- and not in a good way.
Sources: Indianapolis Colts' Dallas Clark out indefinitely with hand/wrist injury - ESPN
Indianapolis Colts Pro Bowl tight end Dallas Clark has a hand/wrist injury that will sideline him indefinitely, sources close to the situation said Wednesday.
Terrell Suggs says he'll have last laugh over Tom Brady | National Football Post
Baltimore Ravens outside linebacker Terrell Suggs definitely isn't done with his verbal feud with New England Patriots star quarterback Tom Brady.
Julian Edelman has a concussion, Mathews, Gates didn't practice | National Football Post
New England Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman has a concussion and didn't practice today.
Derrick Mason unconvinced that fines, suspensions will stop illegal hits | National Football Post
Baltimore Ravens veteran wide receiver Derrick Mason is unconvinced that the stern warning issued by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL vice president of football operations Ray Anderson will stop players from breaking the rules.
Chargers sign Kris Brown, cut J.T. O'Sullivan | National Football Post
The San Diego Chargers have signed former Houston Texans kicker Kris Brown and cut reserve quarterback J.T. O'Sullivan.
The impact of Dallas Clark's injury | National Football Post
Reports surfaced last night from ESPN’s Adam Schefter that Colts’ TE Dallas Clark is out indefinitely with a hand/wrist injury. A big blow to Indy? Without a doubt, because Clark is the ideal fit for the way the Colts run their base offense and game plan.
Charging in: the McNeill deal | National Football Post
The Chargers do what the do, unconcerned about player and agent discontent in their sometimes-contentious negotiations. With two notable holdouts throughout the offseason, that number is down to one (Vincent Jackson) as they got an important piece of business done for the long-term.
A tale of two GMs | National Football Post
John Schneider, the new Seahawks general manager, first expressed interest in Lynch around draft time. The Bills weren’t interested in moving him then. But Schneider never stopped calling. "I just kind of kept bugging the crap out of them," is how Schneider put it. Finally, two weeks ago, the Bills relented and shipped Lynch to Seattle for a fourth-round pick and a sixth-round pick that could become a fifth rounder.
Jenn Sterger camp in ongoing dialogue with NFL about Brett Favre - NFL - SI.com
The manager for the woman at the center of the Brett Favre controversy said Wednesday afternoon he has been in touch with the National Football League about Jenn Sterger possibly cooperating with the league's investigation of Favre, but that no decision has been made whether she will consent to be interviewed in the probe.
Lions' Matthew Stafford expected to start Oct. 31 vs. 'Skins - NFL - SI.com
Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford warmed up by softly tossing screens, then put some zip on 10- and 15-yard passes to teammates.
NFL officials won't overreact on big-hit ejections - Don Banks - SI.com
The NFL's rapid response to Week's 6 spate of collisions involving players who delivered damaging hits to the head will not prompt a bevy of mid-game ejections or any overreaction by game officials, the league's former vice president of officiating, Mike Pereira, predicted Tuesday.
If NFL fears hits, why play 18 games? - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
The mistake is to assume the NFL can change the nature of its players, rewiring them to remove the desperation that consumes their lives. In a sport where few contracts are guaranteed, where the men who wear the jerseys are discarded at the first sign of a salary-cap crisis, there is no policing a way to tackle just because a few extra bodies piled up last weekend.
Fox, Cablevision dispute stretches into 5th day - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
The dispute between Fox and Cablevision that has left 3 million cable subscribers in the New York area without Fox programming has stretched into its fifth day.
Players think Terrell Owens is the most overrated in NFL - Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
Terrell Owens(notes) is the most overrated player in the NFL, according to his peers.
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Whew!
Thanks for the Tracks John!
I loved that Woody was actually admitting the possibility of some current Broncos ability to compliment the ’97 and ’98 squads…..
Also the fact that McDaniels will be given four years. If only the anti-McDaniels crowd could just wrap their heads around that and show some damn support! I know, I know, who cares what ignorant people think? Well, I wouldn’t say I do, but it is still exceedingly annoying to put up with. Especially when I live in Chiefs/Cowboys territory….. I suppose it would get to me a bit more, were I to still live at home (in Colorado) and hear it from residents.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Oct 21, 2010 7:21 AM MDT reply actions
This might sound crazy to some of you at MHR, but McD needs to win if he wants support from the fan base.
Just this season, we are 0-3 in games vs superior teams. 1-1 in games vs lesser teams and 1-0 vs similar teams.
We lost 3 games last season (two at home) to inferior teams. Other than the Titans game, we’ve lost EVERY close game since the NE overtime winner early last season. Lost a close one to Oakland, close one in Washington, blew a close one to Philly, lost a close one to the Jags and one to the Jets.
He’ll have plenty of support if he can head into the bye at 4-4. He had plenty of support at 4-0, 6-0, 8-4 last season.
Losing most of your close games and losing to inferior teams will do him no favors with Bronco Nation. Nor should it. We expect results and improvement. With our easy schedule coming up, that means wins. Very simple equation. Rack up some wins and McD has tangible evidence of progress. Rack up some more competitive Ls and our coach is just a loser.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
I see your point
Especially after all the hype about Orange Sunday…. I can see some fans that attended the game especially, having a hard time getting over that Loss.
MY thing is, support the coach until he isn’t the coach anymore! He’s the Denver Broncos head coach!
Constructively criticize? Sure!
Point out his mistakes in a straight forward, non-derogatory manner? Please do!
But to just be negative about him because he has yet to win a buncha games…. Get real and support the team, including the coach! This doesn’t mean you have to fall all over yourself to do so, but it truly isn’t that difficult to see the positives McDaniels brings, has brought, and could potentially bring. Not directed at you specifically McGeorge, I just continue to struggle with the lack of support from the fan base. I get the lack of Wins being a huge factor, but I don’t get the lack of support from the get-go.
And you have to admit, it’s been this way from the start, before he even had a W or a L with Us. It perpetually amuses me that so many assume they know better though. So at least there’s that.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Oct 21, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here here
Positivity costs nothing.
Josh McDaniels-All he wants to do is win a MF'in game!
by RockyMountainThunder on Oct 21, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions
Do not support a loser coach! Look no farther than Boulder to realize why you don’t do that. The Univ of Colorado is wasting seasons and wasting away as a legit program under Dan Hawkins.
Those very few that still support him are the cowards and the losers.
We are not there with McD. Totally unrelated deals that can’t be compared.
But no fan should support a bad coach or bad player. I never supported Claret or Travis Henry and feel just fine about that. They may have been Broncos, but they were losers and punks. Supporting that just because they are Broncos is BS.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
Hey man
Did you just insinuate that Josh McDaniels is a ‘loser coach’?
- If so, you’re trippin’ man, season ain’t even over… That’s exactly the conflicted attitude I despise and was pointing to. We can start to consider that discussion after two seasons are done and in the books. I give it three or four. Whether or not one should or could consider McDaniels a ‘loser’ coach, as you so eloquently put it.
- If not, then… Well, yeah, good. ( =
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Oct 21, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
It's often darkest before the dawn of day.
I don’t support losing, but I’m also not enough of a bandwagon jumper to jump ship on a guy just because he’s had a few struggles at the beginning.
Josh McDaniels-All he wants to do is win a MF'in game!
by RockyMountainThunder on Oct 21, 2010 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Any training wheels McD was riding on come off this week for good. His team needs to finish better than 5-5 vs the rest of this season’s soft schedule or we hired ourselves a loser coach.
If it’s dawn, and I think it might be, we will find out Sunday. And next Sunday as well.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
Such absolutes.
Too many things remain relative…what if all the QBs go down, etc. Absoutes are absolutely non-convincing to me.
agreed
A great writer once said, “Its not whether you win or lose, its how you played the game.” His point wasn’t that winning and losing didn’t matter, but that they weren’t the objective measures of value that they were often touted as, and that they were in the service of higher ideas.
The reliance on W/L as the sole measure of whether the Broncos, their coach or their players are of any value to us as fans has become a boorish conversation that creates a lot of smoke but no fire, and creates divides between people who claim to share a value. I used to enjoy the W/L conversation, when it was prefaced with a willingness to learn about and understand the Broncos, but anymore it has become a shortsighted excuse NOT to learn about and understand the Broncos.
I’ll admit I haven’t given up on the conversations completely. Super7 has some really good points below, and while I don’t agree with his thesis (that W/L is our only objective measure of “good”) I think we could come to terms on his statements. I think there is friction there with the potential to become something more, perhaps something that illuminates. Of course, the difference is that he doesn’t deliver his assessment of an abstract topic as an absolute. As you say, absolutes, especially in regards to something as complex as program building, often seem less substantial than the lowliest, yet moderated, opinion….
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 21, 2010 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very well stated.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Oct 22, 2010 7:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Ummmm....No one supports Dan Hawkins.
I think he lost most of his support when we lost to Montana State at home.
魏 多福
-:Broncos season ticket holder:-
Dan Hawkins is a joke and anyone that says “you must support the coach to support the program” need to look no farther than Boulder to realize what a false statement that “can” be.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
When did this become a CU Buffs Blog?
Just teasing!
Josh McDaniels-All he wants to do is win a MF'in game!
by RockyMountainThunder on Oct 21, 2010 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Reality is that most fans don’t consume football to the same degree that you and most people who come to MHR do.
So they are not going to see much beyond W/L and “star” players.
We don’t have many star players. Orton is a star to the super fans but to the casual, he isn’t. Champ is really our only star and due to his position, he doesn’t have the same star power to the casual fan as an offensive player. Thomas, Moreno and Tebow have the potential to be stars but they have to start dominating games and get talked about by the fanasty football crowd first.
So we need Ws to keep the fan base. I don’t think McDaniels will be fired this season regardless, but nothing is for certain and if we end 3-13 or 4-12, then anything is possible. But if we can’t get to at least 8 wins, then Bronco country is going to be not so fun this off season. If the Broncos end on a 4+ game win streak, then it is all different and people will be excited for 2011.
In almost every game under McD, the game has been winnable going into the 4th Q. During the 6-0 run, we won those games in the 4th Q. Lately, we haven’t for the most part. If that continues, I expect that the first guy to get the ax is the QB.
But we are now in a part of our sched where we are equal or better than our opponents. We need to win some of these games like the Seahawk game. I hope the players take their disappointment out on the Raiders and crush them.
by McJay on Oct 21, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
We don't need to win some of them, we need to win most of them.
Star players equal entertainment. Guess you need that to sell tickets. But the Jets game was real damn entertaining and so is throwing the football all over the field so that should not be a big issue for McD.
But I don’t see much beyond W/L either. Nor should I. It’s the one stat that matters far more than any other factor in professional sports. We are not a college football team trying to graduate players or a high school team trying to develop young men. Having some great Christian leaders like Dawkins and Tebow or showing a lot of heart in your losses is not good enough for an NFL coach. I like this team (lots of great guys), but they must win. Close counts for nothing, likable players count for nothing, effort counts for nothing, and teamwork counts for nothing if you are a loser more often than not.
McD has a four year contract, he’s got time left. But if he hasn’t produced a winner by year 3, he won’t see year 4, nor should he. The guy needs to put together a winning record over the rest of this season. If he can’t, he should rightfully get booed by the home crowd. MHR may be ahead of the curve (I hope so) on McD. But maybe it’s not. We’ll know in about two months.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
Woody says that McD will get 4 years. He has more access than we do obviously so McD may be here through 2012 regardless. But if he doesn’t win more, then things will get painful (unless you are the type that likes to hear fans complain, justified or not).
I expect us to win more than we lose over the next 10. What I’d like to see is some blowouts of these lesser teams. Winning close games shows something but let’s face it—winning close games also has a lot to do with luck. Or rather, luck can play a big part in the outcome.
I think the guy that gets fired first if we don’t win games we should will be Orton. He has good yardage and doesn’t throw picks. But he is 1 for 4 in 4th Q comebacks (and yes, luck does play a part in those as does the rest of the team).
It's like a marriage
When do you get a divorce? Do you stick it out and try to make it work? Or do you just get all critical and point out every flaw in some misguided believe that such behavior is supportive. I’m not talking about you McJay, I’m just raising these questions in general. Some posters here are so full of piss that they’ve colored and dyed and added sweetener to that they call it being real, or constructive, or whatever. The bottom line is it’s still piss and still tastes horrible to drink (that goes out to everyone who’s called the optimists here “cool aid drinkers”).
Quite frankly, I find some posters (who call themselves fans) incredibly boorish. I wish the poster’s names would appear at the beginning of each post so I could avoid letting their piss sting my eyes without having to scroll down to read the name before I scroll up read the post.
I love the Broncos. It hurts when they lose. It hurt worse to see all the bile they are subjected to by people who don’t understand that the word fan inherently means “supporting” the team.
I wish those who don’t want to feel the hurt the comes with supporting the Broncos save it for wife beating and dog kicking and pulling the wings off flies. I literally avoid MHR for a few days after a loss because the pissy posters who are quick to defend their righteous view of the Broncos’ wrongness are too much to bear when I’m already hurting.
There I’ve ranted and now I feel better. Too bad the posters I’m talking about won’t even have a clue about what I’m saying. Reality is that McD is with us for a couple of more years. I like a lot of what he’s done and am willing to give him time to see if the Broncos can live up to the vision he sold Bowlen. And even if he fails miserably at rebuilding the Broncos, he’s the coach and I’m a fan. So I support him. Is the logic behind this really that complicated?
First they ignore you.
They then laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then, you win.
--Gandhi
by Santa Fe Bronc on Oct 21, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Interesting point about blowouts.
But McD won’t get four years. He’ll either get three years and fired or get an extension after year 3. Getting an extension before year 3 is possible if we go on a big run this season. Getting fired before year 3 is possible if we finish 3-13.
I highly doubt Bowlen lets McD go into the 4th year of his deal not knowing what year 5 will bring. Look at how disastrously that is playing out in Carolina this year. That is a bad business practice. Not the way it’s ever been done in Denver.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
exactly
what exactly is the point of a discussion about, ostensibly, “how many years McD has left”?
Methinks it is subterfuge, an indulgence by those who don’t want him here now, and who find comfort in talking about when he won’t be here in the future.
mcGeorge has a good counterpoint regarding the bad business practice of heading into year 4 of a four year plan without a contingency in place, but I think more credit needs to be given to the context of the situation. I don’t think it is an either/or scenario with an extension or firing in year 3, otherwise what is the point of a four year contract? A fourth year, both within the context of a highly successful McDaniels or a perilously struggling McDaniels are both likely scenarios as well.
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 21, 2010 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions
W/L are the only real measurement of how good you are
The reason Denver’s not had a winner since 2005 is simple. Talent evaluation (both in FA, on the roster, and in the draft). Shanny got fired b/c although he could coach, he sucked as a GM and internally – I think relationships had gone a bit stale/sour.
McDaniels took the road less traveled (the hard way) to get where he is today as far as building a playoff team, but remember that it was ultimately his choice to do so. Nobody else’s. Not Bowlen’s, not Xanders’, not the Broncos’ GM (Not that Bowlen would ever hire one), nobody’s.
Most coaches and especially defensive minded coaches would have gone bigger on the o-line, drafted a Rb, and gone all-in on turning over, drafting, and signing D-linemen and Lb’s.
McD turned all-pro level starters into currency and we haven’t seen a lot of payoff yet with drafted talent, but I’m intrigued by what he’s doing. I know he’d admit that the ‘09 draft sucked and that he really blew it, but I really liked the ’10 draft, which he was obviously more prepared for. McD went all in on good-guys and a veteran secondary. We’ll see what pans out.
At the end of the day, the tack McD took is a 3-4 year plan. Most other coaches do a 1-2 year plan and simply overhaul the D and it’s scheme and get bigger on the O-line. We’ll never know how this path would have turned out, for better or worse.
We are on a 3-4 year plan now – whether you like it or not, but McGeorge is right, he needs to have this team in the playoffs next year to be assured his job in 2012. I don’t think its a sure thing that he’d get canned after year 3 of no playoffs, but its more likely than not.
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Go Broncos!
And, this is just my opinion, but...
right or wrong, I think McDaniels’ goal is loftier than Rex Ryan’s or Steve Spagnuolo’s. I think everyone’s goal is to win the Super Bowl. I think McDaniels’ goal is to do things with long term continuous payoff and build a dynasty type team that can win 2 or 3 or 4 rings. And I dig that about him.
Subscribe FREE to my weekly PODcast on iTunes. The Denver broncos Podcast (http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-denver-broncos-podcast/id393488394)
Go Broncos!
by super7 on Oct 21, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rex Ryan
has the goal of beating Johnny Chestnut in the annual hot dog eating competition July 4
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Oct 21, 2010 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not going to pretend I know what the truth is
but I’ll say this. If we truly are “rebuilding” (and the evidence seems to confim we are) then we need to look at this with wider eyes. The truth is most teams rebuild at some point and while doing so they tend to sink to the depths of the NFL. Some teams have a relatively quick rebuild, 2-3 seasons, others get stuck at the bottom and struggle for years (Buffalo, Detroit, Oakland). If rebuilding is what we’re in the midst of then maybe we should be thankful that 7-9 or 8-8 are the depths to which this team has sunk and not the normal alternative. Think about it. If we rebuild and become contenders within the next 2 seasons, how masterful will McD and Co. look if to get to the top, without having to visit the bottom? I’m not saying there isn’t a lot or work to be done or that McD and Co. are destined to succeed, but what if last season and this season so far are the Broncos rock bottom? Doesn’t look so bad. You just have to look at it in the right light.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Oct 21, 2010 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions
That is too true (unfortunately), and I easily forget
The ‘casual’ fan. They’re like “Who are all these new players?” They know Eddie for sure though. So Champ, Eddie and I’d say DJ, are our “star players” to the casual fan, I’d imagine. And of course Elvis.
But yeah, I do forget that most don’t give a $#it at the levels that I do.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Oct 21, 2010 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
McGeorge
I agree with some of your points and some of Pearl Jam’s points. My point is we can’t win a championship overnight because the Colts and Ravens are better than us. To quote Metallica, it’s sad but true. Nevertheless, we need to dominate our weak division. I watched film of the Chiefs-Texans game on the illustrious NFL Replay last night and KC plays hard but we’re just as good as they are. As you’ve often said, Matt Cassel is a career backup. If we can shut down the Jets’ running game, we can neutralize the KC rushing attack if we put our minds to it. The Faiders, to quote Ozzie Guillen: PLEASE, the Dolts suck now
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Oct 21, 2010 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions
We are or should be better than the Chefs. A split vs them is the bare min. We could and probably should beat them twice this season. We should also beat the Raiders in both games. I’ve said that the last two years and we always play down to them at least once in those two games.
We usually kick their ass in the other.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
I think we lose the one at Arrowhead
and win the won at Mile High.
just my guess though.
Follow me on Twitter: ballinnickcast
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
"I'm really not this fat. I'm looking at myself on the screen and that 14 looks huge. Jeez dude, do a sit up." -John "Guru" Bena
It's quite simple
The AFC West is one of the two worst divisions in the NFL.
Therefore if see ourselves as a good team we need to go 6-0 against them.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Oct 21, 2010 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions
On one hand it is cool that Woody didn’t pull something like “get rid of ’em all!” in answer to that question, but on the other hand it is an extremely loaded question. First of all, you have two years of players to compare against one year. Sure, most of the team was the same but there were a number of players that were only on one of the 1997 and 1998 rosters.
Secondly, and more importantly, you are comparing guys (with the lone exception of Trevor Pryce AFAIK) who are done with their careers, and thus you have full benefit of hindsight. Not a single player on the Broncos current roster has shown their full body of work as an NFL player. I fail to see how it is very ilucidating to compare partial careers of active players to the full careers of other players and choose a “dream team” on those grounds. The only people who we are remotely close to seeing what their whole career might be like are Champ, and Dawkins (and interestingly enough Woody chose both of them).
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Oct 21, 2010 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Krieger said something interesting in his article yesterday
Talking about Tim Tebow, he said star running backs don’t run 4.7 in the 40.
Odd, I remember a certain Georgia running back who was taken in the 6th round that timed out at about 4.7 headed into the draft. He turned out pretty good I think.
Josh McDaniels-All he wants to do is win a MF'in game!
by RockyMountainThunder on Oct 21, 2010 8:16 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I need to remember not to read the DP comment sections
I’m continually struck by what a whiny, short-term thinking, instant gratification, and spoiled bunch Denver fans (and our society in general) has become. The sense of entitlement disgusts me. Sure we’d love the Broncos to win the superbowl every year… but so would 31 other cities.
Success is a process, and focusing only on the current results is a great way to get on a treadmill of mediocrity or short-term mirages of success followed by long-term crashes. You’d think the mortgage crisis would’ve taught us this, but apparently folks are too busy shouting at eachother (on both sides, both politically and in bronco fandom) to actually think rationally.
I’m happy to evaluate McD at the end of this year (or year 3 as McG says), but I’m defintiely gonna look beyond a simplistic view of wins and losses in my analysis of whether the process is one that will lead to successful outcomes in the long term.
With the exception of our aging/mediocre D-Line, the long-term youth and potential of bascially every position group excites me about the possibilities of the team going forward over the next 4 or 5 years. We’ll need to see how some of the young players develop over the next year or 2, but if the young oline/DBs/WRs/QBs are progressing, I’m not going to worry too much about the actual Wins/Losses, given our youth and injuries in key areas. Obviously if they are progressing we’re likely to see more wins, but there are too many random variables/injuries/luck to say that a 6-10 year (I’m still guessing 8-8 or 9-7) can’t be consistent with showing player development.
Sure there are holes that will need plugged, but thats normal for EVERY TEAM, and what drafts and free agency are for. Bad coaching/player development is bad, but I haven’t really seen too much evidence of that to date from McX…. and W-L record is certainly not competely contigent on the coaching staff, as I struggle to see why SD keeps Norvy when appears that the coaching staff in SD seemed to be what was holding the team back, despite their relatively successful W-L record.
by cjfarls on Oct 21, 2010 11:32 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
True
how do you think Brownies and Bills fans feel?
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Oct 21, 2010 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I can't tell you how many times, the same line of thought occurs to me (and not just from reading the DP boards, but that'll certainly do it too).... Unfortunately...
I’m continually struck by what a whiny, short-term thinking, instant gratification, and spoiled bunch Denver fans this part especially—> (and our society in general) has become.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Oct 21, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
The reality of the NFL feeds the short term thinking of fans.
Every year it seems a team goes from worst to first. So it is natural for people to think that their team could be good almost instantly.
The other way it feeds it is that many NFL games are close. So it is very easy for fans to see how their team could have won a game they lost. If you lose 31-14, it is hard to see how a couple of plays would have impacted the outcome. But if you lose 24-20, it is easy to see how if one play was different you win. Have enough of those games and people get fed-up that you keep losing when you should win.
I think the instant-gratification mindset actually makes the game more compelling. I’d rather have that than have a mindset that accepts losing records as “rebuilding”. If done right, you can “rebuild” very quickly in the NFL.
But often times those "worst to first" stories
… are false mirages fueled by weak schedules and/or luck.
Denver’s 6-0 start last year is a good example (we weren’t that good), as was Atlanta a few years ago.
Atlanta was horrid, then all of a sudden had a year where they won their division… until you looked a bit closer and saw that they had above average injury luck and an easy last-place schedule. Last year they “regressed”, creating a whole nother round of anxiety and hand wringing… when in actually their “regression” last year was really them playing at basically the same level as the year before (and I think closer to their “true” level) of being a pretty mediocre team.
Its unclear to me if Atlanta has the PROCESS in place to move beyond mediocrity. They have a few pieces that could be good enough (White, maybe Ryan, etc.)… but have been heavily dependent on an aging John Abraham and Tony G. I don’t know enough about them and their young talent to really make a judgement, but the point is that simple W-L analysis probably isn’t enough to understand.
I’d be really worried about our aging DEF, except that we have a young core behind them (except D-Line), that demonstrates a potentially good PROCESS… basically, I care more about that than the actual W-L.
I've been thinking about something for a while now and I want to get it off my chest
McD get’s a lot of flack from fans and media for countless things. From player evaluation, to trades, to gameday coaching etc. He’s what intrigues me. There is only one aspect that we know McD actually has controll over and that’s the coaching aspect. If you want to criticize coaching decisions, play calling, team preparation, I believe that’s fair game.
Here’s where things get cloudy. We don’t know to what extent McD is the overall talent evaluator. We don’t know if McD is the personel decision maker. We don’t know if he has final say on anything. We also don’t know if he’s the guy making the trades. He very well could be but we can’t say with positivity that he is the be all end all. Now before you all jump down my throat I’ll explain to you what got me thinking like this.
We know now, after the fact, the it wasn’t McD but Bowlen and Joe Ellis that squashed Champs deal. We were all in a frenzy when it happened and the media jumped on McD for it. But we know he had a deal with Champ and it was squashed by people above him. We also know that Bowlen was the one who made the decision to trade Cutler. We know that McD handled things with a sensitive player poorly but it was Bowlen who made the call to trade him. We also know that Bowlen himself said that the Broncos may take a QB in the first round. That was immidiately after the season had ended. And viola Tim Tebow. Here’s a theory, Bowlen wanted Tebow and McD did his bidding by moving cleverly around the draft board.
The point I’m trying to illustrate is there are handprints on this team from people above McD. There are big decisions made that happen above McD that impact personel. We criticize McD for all sorts of decisions but do we know which ones are his? We know some of the ones that aren’t, the interesting question is which other moves didn’t belong to McD.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Oct 21, 2010 4:48 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
re:
supposed to say here’s what intrigues me not he’s….not my best sounding mistake
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Oct 21, 2010 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions
A Shanahan induced myopia
good points T.Dot. I wonder if it isn’t an extreme reaction to the total control that Shanny exhibited.
before I day another word, I feel I need to point out that I love shanny. I loved defending him against BBS, I wanted to carry his baby prior to every raiders game, and I have a ton of respect for his gameday philosophy. that said, i fully acknowledge that he had TOTAL control of the Broncos at the end of his tenure, and that was the worst possible scenario.
Funny thing is, I thought all broncos fans understood that Shanny had far too much power, and that it was highly unusual for a team to be that invested in one single person and his ideas… When Bowlen fired Shanahan, i thought the absolutely crystal clear statement being made was that Bowlen wanted his team back, and I was confident that when the organization got restructured, Bowlen would explicitly and knowingly seek to establish a balanced front office structure that allowed input from solid people across the board.
I have to be honest, i have seen absolutely NOTHING from this organization post shanny that makes me think Bowlen hasn’t succeeded in creating the balance he sought.
So you can imagine how flabbergasted I am when absolutely EVERY single thing that happens with the Broncos is somehow about McD. I’ll admit he is interesting, and that he has a figurehead role, but you are absolutely right T.Dot, criticism and credit should be far more farflung than it currently is, which is a sort of static “player/coach” dichotomy. To me this boils down to a part of the local fan psychology that simply concretized during a time when Shanny spent 15 years becoming a total ruler, and now they haven’t adjusted to the new reality. Shanny, despite the fact that his level of control was unusual, became the norm for them, and now McD is just sort of assumed to be the same thing.
I also remind myself that this site, and others like it are the vocal minority, both positive and negative, and that a lot of fans probably have a very healthy relationship with the Broncos… :)
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 21, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking the same thing
Years of Shanny dictatorship (not intending that word in a deragatory sense) have lead to a belief that this regime is the same. A mistaken belief in my opinion. I could ultimately be wrong but even the most stubborn of people have to admit there is some evidence to back our claim.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Oct 21, 2010 6:05 PM MDT up reply actions
