Oakland Raiders @ Denver Broncos: Destined to Rule the West
by Tim Lynch on Oct 23, 2010 11:30 AM MDT
in Strictly My Opinion
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As I begin here, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to retract a statement I made last week about the Denver Broncos season being lost if they fell to the New York Jets. Yes, I admit that I was wrong. Kyle Orton!
Perhaps it was the overall ineptitude of the AFC West this past weekend or, more likely, it is how this young team has carried itself against some of the biggest contenders in the league. Either way, the Broncos remain in excellent position to grab destiny by the throat. It starts this week, with the dysfunctional Oakland Raiders. It's time to take care of business and the business of the Broncos is two-fold: Finish 6-2 at home and NEVER lose to a division rival at home. Tim Tebow!
First things first. I have a few bones to pick with various folks in the etherworld - here and everywhere. The next person to complain about Josh McDaniels' play calling had better be prepared to bash Kyle Orton as well. After all, it is the quarterbacks job to read and analyze the opposing defenses and, if necessary, audible. So if you have a problem with the plays being called, you have a problem with not just Josh McDaniels, but Kyle Orton as well. This is not a quasi-Orton bash by me, as I am rather pleased with the overall play calling abilities of both. They'd get an 'A' from me if not for the teams current red zone woes. No, Orton!
Another bone I feel like picking is all the people up in arms over the running play the Broncos ran on 3rd and 17 early in the fourth quarter. Hello?! The Broncos were backed up inside their own twenty yard line. The smart play is to play the field position game, not the 2010 Madden game. Sheesh. No, Tebow!
My last bone to pick here is related to the "Tebow Package". If you are going to run the wildcat with Tebow at quarterback, at least pretend he might actually throw it. Without the threat of passing, its just a gimmick offense that NFL defenses will quickly adapt too and destroy. If no throws are going to be made, then sit Tebow on the bench and keep Orton in! No, Orton!
(Note: Here is a good write up I noticed that confirms what I believe about the "Tebow Package")
The Offense
Okay, so the bones have been picked and the dead horses have been thoroughly beaten, now what? The Oakland Raiders baby! Now, I would say the keys to this game is for the offense to abuse their overrated secondary for 400 yards and assault their crappy front seven for another 200 yards on the ground, but I won't. For whatever reason, the Raiders always seem to get up from the Black Hole of Losers to sucker punch the Broncos in the gonads IN DENVER. I was in my twenties the last time the Broncos won at home against the Oakland Raiders. Disgusting. No, Tebow!
The Broncos sit at 1-2 this season at home, which means they MUST win out in order to finish at the Tim Lynch specified MANDATORY 6-2 record or better home record. Therefore, I expect the offense to torch the Raiders mightily and for the Broncos to seize control of their AFC West destiny. Orton!
I may be the only person on the planet who thinks this, but after watching the game again, Russ Hochstein looked pretty solid in the run game. I am starting to think we may have found the right five guys on the line for the rest of 2010. About six weeks late, but at least it is finally here! The rushing game needs to continue to build on last weekends success. Kyle Orton is better served without the incredible pressure of having to do it all, as would any quarterback. The more balanced this offense becomes, the more dangerous it will be to opposing defenses. Tebow!
The Defense
It was nice to be right for a change. The infusion of youth on defense was exactly what gave them an edge over the Jets. Mark Sanchez, I think, is more confident when he has time to prepare for the opposing defense. With so little film on these younger guys, Sanchez's confidence wasn't what it would be normally. All in all, it was a tremendous defensive performance whose only black mark was a somewhat dubious pass interference call on fourth down that essentially decided the game. Orton!
However, that edge we saw will degrade with each passing game these youngsters play. Hopefully, the Broncos will be able to start returning some of the veteran starters and backups in the coming weeks. At least we know the cupboards are no longer bare on the defensive side of the ball. Tebow!
I see the defense being right where it should be in terms of development and execution. This unit will continue to dishearten us fans at times, but I expect them to get better each and every week. A finish near the middle of the pack in most meaningful categories by seasons end is about what we should expect. 2011 should be an interesting jump for this defense and the talent and leadership should be enough to crack the top ten. Orton!
The goal this week is the same as last week. STOP THE RUN. The Broncos do this and they will come out of this game with an easy victory. Tebow!
Civil War of the Subconscious
Whoa! I just went back to edit my story and I noticed I subconsciously typed in Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow after each paragraph. It almost seems like my subconscious is arguing with itself... I had no idea a civil war was waging within the confines of my own mind.
Well, it's time to get all Jimmy Carter/George Bush on my ass. It's time to sit down and ask myself why.
JC/GB: KO, why should you be starting?
KO: Because I'm a pimp daddy with a neckbeard who is playing like the second coming of Elway man!
JC/GB: TT, why should you be starting?
TT: Because everyone loves me and my work ethic makes Peyton Manning look lazy. GBx2.
JC/GB: Why are you better than TT, KO?
KO: Hey man, I've perfected my craft. Like a good neighbor, Kyle Orton's there.
JC/GB: Why are you better than KO, TT?
TT: KO has a 12 month headstart, so maybe his craft is perfect. My craft is only scratching the surface, so like Nike, TT just does it!
JC/GB: So for 2010, what's best for the Denver Broncos NOW?
KO: Nobody does what I do, but I must admit, having TT in for certain packages might be a good thing.
TT: Honestly, it's Orton's team right now, I just want to contribute.
JC/GB: So we all should be happy that both of you are playing?
KO/TT: Absolutely! (followed by touchy/feely hugs and tears)
Ah, my subconsious has become one again. I'm no longer crazy right? There. Thank you peanut farming oil man for settling the Civil War within my mind.
See how easy that was? Kyle Orton is the starter and a damn good one. Tim Tebow is the backup and a damn good one. This year is Kyle Orton's time. Most of us remember what happened when the Broncos made a quarterback change during the season, so let's not follow the rabbit back down that hole. The way I see it, whoever ends up the starter in 2011 or 2012, the Broncos will be better for it. Regardless.
From the Archives...
Ok, so with all the Tebowmaniacs coming out of the woodwork and all the Tebow haters/Orton lovers vehemently defending all that is Orton, I felt it was time to revisit and two old posts written by Steve Nichols regarding how to build "cred" on MHR.
There are several ways to go about discussion any given situation with people without resorting to name calling, cursing or commenting on how big of a mistake it was that their parents decided to have a child. All things not very nice and serves only to cause people to look at you with vitriol.
I also included a bonus post from Steve for those of you who already have the cred and are looking for something a bit more challenging.
Football University: Building Cred at MHR Part 1 and Part 2 by Steve Nichols
MHR University: 2008 Final Exams! by Steve Nichols
Hope you enjoyed these. Steve's a busy guy right now, but we hope to have him back in the fold before the end of the regular season.
Go Broncos!
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The sweet part about this game is this should be a *must win* for you guys.
If you guys lose, the Raiders go up 2-0 in the division and take the division lead with Chiefs at 1-0 Broncos 0-1 (if you lose, 0-1) then Chargers 0-2.
If you guys win: Chiefs (1-0) Broncos (1-0) Raiders (1-1) then Chargers (0-2, haha).
I hope to watch a great competitive game (or blowout in our favor.)
;)
The RaiderLaker
I hope to see an embarrassing destruction of the Raiders.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Oct 23, 2010 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Embarrassing?
Anyone who supports Al Davis’ organization must be incapable of shame. The best we could hope for is for Raiders fans to start beating their chests about the 2012 Super Bowl.
by Velveeta on Oct 24, 2010 9:36 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Touche' my friend!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Good post... One thought I'd like to add
It’s okay to be a Tebow lover and an Orton lover. I love Tebow, and I honestly think he is the future of this franchise. I think two years from now (possibly sooner, but two years max), Tebow will be the starter. I think watching Matt Cassel struggle without McDaniels in Kansas City has been very eye-opening to me, in that Cassel was producing under McDaniels at the same level Orton is now producing, while Orton was a low-end starter before McDaniels and Cassel has put up very similar stats now without McDaniels. I look at that and go “geez, what could McDaniels do with a guy like Tebow then??”
Allll that said… Starting Tebow now would be ludicrous. Orton is the guy who gives us the best chance to win right now, and I love the guy. He is gutsy, he’s a fantastic leader, he’s a hard worker, he doesn’t lose games for us, he’s in total command of this offense right now… Could go on and on. I think Tebow has more potential with this offense long-term, but Orton is the best guy for this season and that’s that.
It’s possible to love Tebow and still love Orton. Just because I said all those things in paragraph 1 doesn’t negate what I said in paragraph 2. Let’s avoid labeling “Tebow lovers” as “Orton haters” and labeling “Orton lovers” as “Tebow haters”…
(This wasn’t aimed at you Tim – I didn’t feel you were doing this at all – but some around here have done one or the other)
by scooter17 on Oct 23, 2010 12:16 PM MDT reply actions 4 recs
+100
I love both guys and the correct one is starting at this time.
Now as for all the idiots who blame Coaches and or QB’s for poor play calling I would like to let you all know that many of us think the play calling has been excellent. Many of you act as if the coach or QB didn’t think about the situation as deeply as you did. That is ridiculous!!!!!!!! Not only did they take into account everything you though of,b but probably about 10 additional things that you never even knew were important, and they make those decisions in about 15 seconds. I so wish some of you could sit in a real coaches meeting even at the HS level it would be like a kindergärtner in calculus. But the great thing is the internet give you a forum and its all in fun. but trust me you do not know nearly as much as people getting paid at the highest level to do the job. I AM ALL FOR QUESTIONING CALLS THATS GOOD FUN, BUT CALLING FOR COACHES TO BE FIRED OR SAYING THAT THEY ARE STUPID IS RUDE AND ARROGANT
oldcoachB
by oldcoachB on Oct 23, 2010 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
i know it wasnt aimed at me cause you hold the same exact view i do. lol
thanks btw!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
+1 scooter
especially on the comment regarding Cassell
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Good post, scooter
I agree very much with a lot of what you’re saying and like you and Tim, I’m in the “I like both guys” camp.
One thing that you said that I say all the time is “I think Tebow is the future of the franchise”, but I don’t think that’s technically what I mean when I say it.
When I say it, I mean that I HOPE Tebow is the future of the franchise. I think he looks good so far, has every intangible possible, and looked pretty good throwing the ball in the preseason. If he can contunie to develop with the McD boys’ tutelage, he should be a pretty damn good QB. But he’s not ready today and barring the incredible, he probably won’t be ready next year either. That said, I think he could have the makings of an ‘all-time great" QB. And if he does become that, then Denver has what they’ve been pining for since 1999 (just my opinion).
I know that the above paragraph suggests that Orton is not an all-time great. I don’t think he is. But then again, I didn’t think he’d become Kurt Warner 2.0. He has blown away my original expectations, but in my heart, I don’t have faith in him to consistently deliver in clutch situations and I hope he can change that, and if he can’t, at least we have the POSSIBILITY of an all-timer and clutch player on the roster in Tebow. And if Tebow’s not, the at very least Orton is a top 10 QB when paired with McD’s passing offense – and that’s good enough for me. For now, anyway.
Just offering my feelings and hopes.
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Go Broncos!
Good way of putting it
I agree – when I say that I guess what I really mean is exactly that – I absolutely think he’s got the potential to become the face of the franchise. That said, plenty of college greats had the potential and failed, so that’s not out of the realm of possibility. I have high hopes though, especially under the training of the best QB guru in the league in McDaniels. (That’s a big part of the reason I want to see McDaniels succeed so badly, if only to still have him around to coach Tebow)
As an aside… For me it comes back to something I said before the Broncos drafted Tebow. Someone asked me what I thought, and I said “All traditional logic says I should doubt the guy given his mechanics, but I just can’t see him failing at anything, he works too hard.” Then the Broncos drafted him and I was surprised, but happy.
While i agree that McDaniel's is a QB guru.
I think that Cassel is going to be a good QB, but he’s being to controlled by Haley and Weis. Haley is constantly say he wants Cassel to be a game manager, which completely sucks IMO. I would much rather see more passing in a game, but the Chiefs are using the players they have along with good coaching to play solid fundamental football.
Now to the Bronco’s
I think T.Tebow has talent and will be the Bronco’s starter in the future, but riding the bench behind a very affective QB is good for him also. At this point IMO you guys should be very happy with your QB’s play, and there should be no complaints or calls for Tebow.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Yes
I love both Tebow and Orton. Condemn me to hell anytime you’d like
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Oct 23, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Tim your thoughts on blaming Orton for not changing the plays reflects that you dont understand how the system actually worse .
The coach subs in the personnel and then calls the play and so the audible is limited to personnel and the situation . If he puts in a package with 3 wides and Maroney and Gradkowksi well then you can only make certain checks and they may not be the ones that you need to make and you hate to waste timeouts .
With our line not being able to block man to man or 5 on 4-5 so we have to hold the TE and RB into help well then what can you honestly audible too ?
We dont have the personnel thats needed to fully run the no huddle or take advantage of what the defense is giving us which is the TE and RB in the passing game .
Look at how the Jets were in man to man dropping way down the field covering our receivers and Orton ran for a first well on the Pats and Colts Brady and Manning dont need to run because they are able to leak out there RB or TE and take advantage of those types of man to man situations .
In the redzone its all about the TE and RB the better you have at those positions the more effective you will be as the redzone is all about sucking the defense into the middle and then flaring out to the edges after the ball is snapped .
Also about the Tebow package Tebows doesnt have a receiver in his helmet only the starter does therefore we would have to change the playcalling system and its just overall confusing .Orton is the one who receives the play thru his helmet and calls the play in the huddle so I dont think we will see Tebow on the field without Orton barring injury .
I wouldve loved to see Tebow as our H-back this year the things we couldve done moving him all over the field .
Gotcha...I'll be sure to apply the same logic to Peyton Manning.
It’s good to know that QBs have no job at all when it comes to audibles. When did they change the rules to allow the headphones to be turned on all the time for QBs?
Just curious, since I obviously have no understanding of what the quarterbacks job is between the huddle and the ball being snapped…..
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Sorry, I think I came off a bit defensive there.
Basically, I’d like you to explain how Orton doesn’t share any of the blame for some of the failed plays?
Keep in mind, I am not bashing him…he is making FAR MORE good plays than bad ones, but he isn’t omnipotent so when people bitch about the play calling, be freakin’ consistent!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Do you know that Peyton Manning has over 100 more career starts than Orton ?
Manning ,Dallas Clark,Reggie Wayne have been together for at least 7 seasons in the same system ..
Also I never said Orton doesnt have a job at calling audibles I said that you are limited in what type of audible you can call based on the personnel groupings and game situation.
Did you see Gaffney having to tell DT where to go against the Jets ? The coach has already said Orton knows the offense like the back of his hand but when Gronkowksi at FB and DT are in at the same time you cant check off to the same types of plays you would if you have Lloyd and Larsen in they just dont have the time in the book .
Also Mcdaniels said at one point that that he sends in two plays most of the time the original playcall and then the one Orton can change if he sees something but also Orton can at the LOS make sight adjustments with his receivers that dont involve changing the the call for everyone else .
After all, it is the quarterbacks job to read and analyze the opposing defenses and, if necessary, audible.
Knowshon being limited ,Branson being hurt ,and the Oline 5 on 4 -5 blocking limits what you can audible too .
Look at Ortons numbers in the 2 minute when hes running no huddle they are pretty darn good also wasnt the responsibility of preparing the Oline for the jets blitz on Orton last week and they gave up one sack although they had major help but still.
I didnt say Orton never made a bad read or a bad throw everyone does I was talking about the audibles and especially with the amount of packages we run and the injuries weve had that everything cant be fixed at the line of scrimmage so the play call coming in has got to be almost perfect which is why many people including myself have been asking for more no huddle early in the game .
Against the Ravens we ran a toss to Maroney going left and Graham was supposed drop back and chip Suggs on the backside and he totally missed it and Suggs made a tackle fro0m behind on Maroney behind the line of scrimmage now that play failed so do you think Orton shares in the blame ? or the receivers ? or even the coach ? Just saying :)
by Hoopforia on Oct 23, 2010 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just wondering if injuries and personnel changes how the plays are called...
certainly in regards to the running game, but McD expects the backups to be prepared and to know the plays. I’ve seen Orton audible inter different plays, so he obviously has a hand in what plays are run.
The only point I was trying to make and by only I mean just one point, is that if someone is going to sit on MHR and bitch about McD’s playcalling during games, that includes Kyle Orton. So don’t bash McD’s playcalling then come out and talk about how great Orton is.
I said in my post here, I LIKE THE PLAYCALLING thus far – which means I LIKE both McD and Orton’s performance in that area so far. I think the playcalling has actually been great considering all the adversity this team has faced. So I am not sure why or how you are disagreeing with me, unless you honestly believe Kyle Orton has nothing to do with any of the plays that are called, even when he audibles into a different play. My bone picking was only with those who are bashing the playcalling abilities of McD, then praise Orton’s greatness. If Orton’s great, then that likely means the playcalling is good…to me, it’s that simple. The only quarterback I’ve ever know to have an ability to play great in spite of horrible play calling was John Elway and I am almost certain that is not the case with this team.
Hoopforia, I really think there is no disagreement here between us other than your desire to defend Orton. Yet Orton does not need defending. I asserted that McD and Orton have done a good job in the playcallling department and people who are bashing McD for the playcalling should then be consistent and bash Orton too. The point was to say, hey, the playcalling is pretty damn good considering how open our WRs are and how many yards Orton is racking up so stop bitching about the playcalling! lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
and I dont like the playcalling and by that I dont mean the diagram of the play but the timing
We force a rare turnover and its Maroney up the gut on first down or the fact that once we took the lead he went into a prevent offense.
yes I agree our receivers are very open …..when we decide to use those plays.
The playcalling within the spread has been fantastic
The playcalling as a coach who said he wants to play physical power football has been horrible in fact I would say that the entire design and execution of the power game has been atrocious and it all starts with his lack of respect for the TE position .
Side note.
I wanted to make the caption in the picture I used to say this:
“Demaryius Thomas takes a dump on Revis Island”
However, that didn’t seem to appropriate for this venue, but I wanted everyone here to know that is the reason I choose the picture in the first place. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
lol, that is funny!
"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins
"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.
Intersting commentaries gents.
I read nothing here that I disagree with. I do believe thhat Mr. Orton has proved his on field ability to run the offense. Of course he will not be perfect. Who could be with all the variables? Nevertheless, I find it very promising that Denver is playing the game so well. They certainly don’t play like a 2 and 6 team. It should prove to be an interesting rest of the season. As far a Tebow goes, let him learn and develope, which it appears is what McD is doing with him.
We bought this teritory with our body and souls then we watered it with our tears.
Good Post
IMO it’s not a question of play calling or bad QB play, but the inability to run the ball effectively. The opposing defense knows this and that’s what killing the Bronco’s as a offense and in the redzone.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
I am thinking
there are plenty of other teams in the NFL that are very, very envious of our situation at quarterback, seeing as how Tebow was ripe for the picking for at least 24 other teams. We were the only ones that were willing to go GET him. Knowing what we know about Tebow and his loyal, everything you have 110% of the time mentality, I bet he is just aching to show us how much he appreciates the Broncos for taking him when they did. This bodes very well for us, and not so well for the rest of the league. Tebow doesn’t strike me as the type to openly say that he wants to prove the other teams wrong, but there is no doubt in my mind he knows who passed him up. And did I mention Kyle Orton is our starter right now? We might be 2-4 but I still say this team is going places. It’s just going to take a little time to get there. Rome wasn’t built in a day, folks.
I'm not a complete idiot, some pieces are missing.
I promise you
Tebow wouldn’t have lasted that far past us. Buffalo, Cleveland and Carolina were supposedly game. We ripped the heart out of that Buffalo war room. I have this picture in my mind of Chan Gailey and Ralph Wilson going “damn that young whippersnapper.”
You are correct.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I think Ortons success has a lot to do with Mcdaniels
Look at how great Matt Cassel was when he replaced Tom Brady…now look at him. Granted Orton deserves credit but i think McDaniels is extremely good at coaching Qb’s and that he can the make average look great. Think of our running game and how we could throw in 6th round picks and they would produce for us. Now our running game sucks but i feel like our qb situation is similar to our old running days in that they don’t necessarily have to be 1st round material for them to put pro bowl numbers up. This is why i feel like Tebow wasn’t such a bad pick, if Mcdaniels knows anything its how to coach a Quarterback…even if they suck (Matt lives in a Castle)
Of Course
as much as I love Kyle Orton, he is a system quarterback. Peyton is not because he can excel in any system. Heck, he kind of has already invented his own system. The man knows everything about X’s and O’s.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Oct 23, 2010 7:09 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Tom Moore gets way too much credit for that Indy system.
We all know that Peyton is the mastermind. I’m thinking that Jim Caldwell has the easiest job on the planet.
Hold on now!
Orton was a good QB at Purdue and in Chicago. Many would say that he’s just improving as he get more experience. I like McD, but what happened with Simms, Tom B., and Brady Quinn? Final judgement will come on KO when he actually plays on a good team. I sure hope it’s the Broncos.
Eh
Lots of QB’s were good in a spread offense. Orton was just ok in Chicago, but they mostly won in spite of him and not because of him. It’s true… He was not even a top-20 QB at the time statistically (go back and check if you’d like, it’s true).
Using Cassel to judge what type of QB guy McDaniels is, is a mistake IMO.
He went 11-4 with the Pats, who the year before went undefeated, and last year he played for a Chiefs team that went 2-14 the year before that. Are you really giving the Chiefs as a team that much credit? Do you think with the WR’s the Chiefs have that Orton could come here and put up the same numbers he has in Denver?
The Chiefs have to upgrade the WR core next year, but until we fix the remaining quality depth problems Cassel will be made to manage the game and take care of the ball. That’s what Haley wants him to be and that’s what Cassel will try to do on the field. Yes it completely sucks not having a passing game like the Bronco’s, but I’m happy with pounding the ball also. Nothing like watching a team run the ball down the defense’s throats.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
by CPT.Caveman on Oct 23, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Orton is easily an upgrade for the Cheifs at this point
Cassel’s mental looks shaken an i don’t know if he can be that good. He is the epitome of inconsistency. The Cheifs have bad depth at WR but if Cassel was really as good as advertised he would have made them look a lot better than they are. I thought Haley was a great pick up especially because his expertise with WR but somethings wrong with that passing game and IMO its Cassel.
by ShyandObese on Oct 24, 2010 12:56 AM MDT up reply actions
I think that was the point...and it was about Orton AND Tebow. :P
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I am not so sure that Orton is strictly a system quarterback.
I think he has always had great potential, and to be honest, I dont think he is done getting better. Don’t get me wrong, I think McDaniel’s coaching and expectations has helped him out dramatically. I think that if Orton were traded ( and I dont think he will be anytime soon) He would not have that much of a performance drop off -ala Matt Cassel. I want to put an emphasis on The word expectations, because I am not so sure that any other coach has actually made it clear to Orton that they had high performance expectations from him…If that makes any sense.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
Orton performance drop-off
Honestly, if he went to a team with receivers that are as bad as the Chiefs are, then yeah, I’d bet he would have about as much of a performance drop off… Or close to it… I’d expect him to be around the 20th QB in the league at that point. Pretty realistic since he’s playing somewhere between 7th and 10th right now.
I dont think that Cassel has anywhere near the potential that Orton has.
True, we definitely have better receivers than Kansas City, but the point I was trying to make is that Orton not only has been pressured to become a better quarter back, but he has responded well to that pressure, and has realized how great his potential is in the process. Sometimes it takes a kick in the ass to be able to grasp the concept of how good you really can be. I dont think Orton would allow himself to have much of a performance drop off regardless of the situation.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
by BroncoRick69 on Oct 23, 2010 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions
I might disagree to a point...look how difficult it was for him in Chicago?
Basically what Cassell has to deal with in KC…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I know...I meant going forward.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
by BroncoRick69 on Oct 23, 2010 8:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep...winning record with LOTS less weapons than Cassel...only Forte as a RB and no o line...Cassel would have been in hospital in Chicago. Tim, you dont give Kyle Orton near enough credit...just saying. I am a HUGE Tebow fan, but....
Orton is only getting better. He is VERY GOOD now and is starting to enter the ELITE level.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Nope, I'm talking a great DEFENSE carrying the team to most of their victories.
Why do you think Orton kept getting benched in Chicago? I’m not bashing the guy, just laying out the facts here.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
It's true
I ran into a guy at work who was a huge Bears fan (this was just a couple weeks ago) and he found out I was a huge Broncos fan. He started giggling right away and was like “hahaha how do you like having Orton as your QB?”
They hated him there, because he honestly was pretty bad there. Cutler has done better there than Orton did… Don’t hate me for saying that – it’s true.
Its wierd
I’ve seen the opposite effect, lots of Bears fans who felt that losing Orton was the final straw, having never seen the logic in having a QB battle between Orton and Grossman (that by all accounts was not fairly settled).
They seem to like Cutler just fine, after the initial system shock (though some are very unforgiving) but they felt that Orton got the shaft in Chicago, continuing a long tradition of QB non-development/destruction in CHI.
The phenomenon actually led to the adoption of the term “SuppOrtons” in Chicago talkradio culture….
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 24, 2010 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers had the two worst O-Lines in the league last year and they both put up huge numbers last year.
I think you are right hes not a system QB . They dont even know, they dont care, they didnt even look it up it just sounds good to say
because its easier to believe that Orton is a system QB than to admit that theyve been wrong about him and that Orton actually has talent .
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=8520&sYear=2008
Add up the first 7 games numbers of 2008 and its quite obvious Orton was on his way UP prior to his injury and that was playing with receiving corps worse than the Chiefs.
Cassell was the backup for 4 years before Brady was hurt and Orton was in the system for 5 months before the first game last year and they think somehow Its ONLY the system and the coach ?
The funny part is prior to June we had a bunch of unknowns who were gonna struggle to replace Marshall but now they are good and it absolutely nothing to do with them playing with a good QB.
Orton wouldve went to KC put in the same work ethic hes shown us and wouldve been the leader hes shown himself to be there just as he is here .
The article below is from prior to Ortons high ankle sprain on the Bears. That injury had not fully healed when we traded for him in 2009 and he played all of last year on that ankle and then injured the other ankle against the Skins .
We are only now seeing Orton fully healthy for the first time since around the time this article was written .
After watching the Bears’ offense transform into one of the league’s most explosive units, league observers are effusive in their praise of Kyle Orton. The fourth-year pro has been outstanding during the first half of the season, and his stellar play has ignited what was expected to be a pedestrian offense.
Orton, the Bears’ fourth round pick in 2005, has completed over 62% of his passes and tallied 10 passing touchdowns against only four interceptions. (He entered the season as a career 52 percent passer and had tossed only 12 touchdowns with 15 interceptions in 18 career starts.) His 22 completions over 20 yards this season are seventh-most in the league, and he ranks in the top 12 in passing yards (1,669) and passer rating (91.7). Not bad numbers for a quarterback who sat on the bench for 32 consecutive games after leading the team to a 10-5 record as a rookie.
Orton’s dramatic improvement as a passer is not only reflected in his statistics, but also in the Bears’ increased use of the no-huddle in recent weeks. Operating out of their “Ace” personnel package (one back, two tight ends and two wide receivers), the Bears have used the no-huddle to force opponents into simplified defensive looks while giving Orton the flexibility to attack via the run or pass. He’s completed more than 68 percent of his passes thrown out of the no-huddle, along with three touchdowns and no interceptions. Those numbers were part of a sensational three-game streak in which he completed 65 percent of his passes for 903 yards with five touchdowns.
Although the “no-huddle” has been an integral part of Orton’s solid play, the return of the credible running game has also been a factor. Led by rookie Matt Forte, the Bears have run successfully between the tackles. While Chicago only ranks 17th in rushing offense, Forte’s is the league’s 11th-best rusher and his average of 21 attempts per game is fourth among running backs. Thus, defenses have been forced to defend the run with eight-man fronts, and Orton has taken advantage of the look by attacking off play-action.
“First-down defenses want to come up and stop the run,” Orton told the team’s website. “We’ve thrown the ball pretty effectively in good-look situations and just really need to keep on continuing to do that.”
Throwing extensively to his running backs and tight ends (Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark), Orton has worked the underneath areas of the field with outstanding success. The Bears’ running backs and tight ends have accounted for 53 percent of his completions, and he has used the short passing game to keep the offense ahead of the chains. With the offense consistently in favorable position, Orton has been able to riddle defensive backfields with an assortment of deep throws out of run-heavy formations.
The combination of talent and scheme has meshed well, but Orton’s maturity and leadership have helped too. Since wrestling the starting job away from Rex Grossman during training camp, Orton has firmly established himself as the leader on offense.
“He was an instant leader,” said veteran lineman Robert Garza earlier in the season. “He’s giving us our direction.”
Teammate Olin Kreutz told reporters after the initial Lions’ meeting, “We see how hard he works, how hard he studies the game. He’s there every day. He stays late. So we expect games like [the one he had against Detroit] out of him.”
While Orton wasn’t trusted by the coaching staff to fully execute the Bears’ game plan in his first stint as the team’s starter, the restraints have been lifted this time as he has progressed from a game manager to a playmaker.
“He manages the game very well, and that’s not a negative, but he’s not just a game manager,” Turner said. “We don’t want him to be, either. His rookie year, obviously, the package was limited and we asked him basically to do that. But he has become so much better than that to just have that label.”
Scouts have noticed Orton’s improvement and have not been surprised that he has gotten off to such a solid start this season.
“Although he may not have been fully ready, he won a lot of games as a rookie,” said an NFC personnel director. “He is playing within himself right now and has improved a lot since the beginning of the season.” Another NFC scout added, “I’m surprised, but not shocked. He played against New Orleans last year, and he appears to be playing at the same level… He developed into a good player at the right time for them.”
The Bears entered the season with serious question marks on offense, but Orton may have finally given the team a long-term answer at quarterback.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/bucky_brooks/10/31/buzz/#ixzz13FT0mLH9
Thanks for helping me prove my point lol.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
by BroncoRick69 on Oct 24, 2010 9:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Orton is tough and smart, that will take you a long ways. Now he has a system built for QBs.
by ThorpeBroncosfan on Oct 23, 2010 7:49 PM MDT reply actions
Kyle is a tough, smart, accurate (at times), leader
who is in one of the most QB friendly systems in the world.
This is how I view the Orton-Tebow "debate"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMXYE_50Ts&feature=related
A retarded running horse in a circle.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
That was just
Freaky, and funny :)
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
I think McD
can take any quarterback who is a pocket passer, accurate and safe with the ball, good smarts and hard working into a supreme QB. I can’t imagine what he can do with someone like Tebow who has uber atheletic ability to boot.
by PaleHorse78 on Oct 23, 2010 8:39 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
please don't be mad at me guys for sayin that. It's just my opinion.
We all know what they say about opinions.
Thats my thoughts exactly
if he can turn a college career backup into a pro bowl qb then imagine what he can do with Tebow.
by ShyandObese on Oct 23, 2010 8:53 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didnt forget. if they had jamarcus behind center nothing would have happened for them
He played like tom brady, not just good or pretty good…essentially your taking away from brady when you say that but maybe that was the point.
by ShyandObese on Oct 24, 2010 12:48 AM MDT up reply actions
That's what I've been saying all along
And I totally agree.
If you think about it
McD’s system does the same thing to wideouts. Let’s all face it, Lloyd and Gaffney aren’t the most spectacular wideouts in the history of the game, but in this system they’re lights out.
Good point
It’s eerily similar to the Saints system that Sean Payton’s been running… I mean really, is Robert Meachem and Lance Moore actually that good? Doubt it. Got the same thing going on here…
Robert Meachem
isn’t as good as I thought. He’s kind of screwing me in Fantasy Football. Well, he was spectacular last week. You’re playing the Brownies, Rob, better OWN today.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Oct 24, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions
Hey fellas.. No internet tonight, just my phone that’s runin slowly in my backwoods country home town in idaho. Changin me n my buddys fantasy lineup.. Is eddie playin? Any help is aways much appreciated guys!
It's just about time for us to get out there and win a MF Game!
by Alex on Oct 24, 2010 3:27 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
I love both Orton and Tebow.
1) I think there is a big bust from the crowd when Tebow enters the game.
2)I also think, like you, that he needs to throw out of this package and I really thought that would happen late in the game, but it didn’t.
3) I also think that Orton needs to be off the field. Orton is not a threat even if he is miscovered by 20-30 yards. Where’s he going to go? With all of his 6.0 speed…LOL!
The Wild Horses is run by a RUNNING BACK, not a QUARTERBACK. Since when do we need 2 QB’s on the field? Switch them out like you would a RB or WR. 1 QB on the field at a time.
Well done on the post, GO BRONCOS…31-3 over the Faiders today!!!
by Bron#1 Fan on Oct 24, 2010 6:32 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Great post #1...and I agree...Tebow to Demryius Thomas would have caught the Jets off guard....oh well! But I also think you might see Orton thrown to....just a hunch!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
#1 to #1...
FOR YEARS TO COME. Could it be like Montana to Rice, or Manning to Harrison, or Elway to Smith, or…wait I’m getting ahead of myself here…sorry!
McD’s play calling is much better between the 20s than inside the 20s (both sides of the field).
He (and Orton) do their worst play calling work when they need to be at their best.
Josh McDaniel's Broncos are 10-12. He holds a career .454 winning percentage. We better freaking destroy the sorry as ever Raiders.
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom and positivity.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
That
is sadly kind of true. It is correctable. Orton and McD need to go for the jugular this day and henceforth and forever.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Oct 24, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still "recovering" after last night's Mizzou win!
Broncos need to make this a perfect weekend! Let’s beat the Raiders and begin our march to the AFC West crown!
Officially on record with a 10-6 prediction for 2010! (8/21/10)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
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