Some Clarification is in Order: The IT Factor
by Topher Doll on Oct 29, 2010 5:07 PM MDT
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PrintIn my continuing, blue moon series Some Clarification is in Order, which has covered burst and steady backs, and it's update, and quarterback types, I have a new topic. Like my past posts, I'll be looking to clear up any misconceptions and misunderstanding people may have about terms or situations in football. This post has been a long time coming, it wasn't something I threw together because of recent events, but they were what motivated me to finish it. I have been want to not just understand, but better explain what the IT factor.
Both of these terms are used a lot, and are very ambiguous as well. Each person has varying definitions and views on the term that possibly have the greatest meaning to many fans of teams. I went out and looked for how those who matter and have the best idea of what these terms mean, coaches and players, view the IT Factor. Fans can say what they want, but it's those people who play and coach the game that have the real say. This isn't about a specific player or team, but it will deal with players either still playing or retired. Now since is something that people differ with, I tried to back up my research with as much research as possible, and tried to include at least one source for each point.
IT Factor:
Background:
The term "IT Factor" applies widely in our society, from sports to popular culture. It has been applied to Paris Hilton to John Elway. As a social scientist, this isn't just a football term, and it's non-football definitions are very helpful in allowing us to understand the football application.
Celebrates who lack lack high quality talent such as Hilton or the Kardashian's have something them about them that draws people to them despite no real reason for their popularity. It applies to politicians and religious leaders. Most often it applies to the outspoken, charismatic leaders, but those who met Mother Teresa, from Reagan to Pope John Paul II, said they never felt what they felt when they were around the very soft spoken women link. FDR was seen as one of presidents who showed the IT Factor despite weakened body and clam, gentle demeanor. But had people known he struggled to walk, presidential historians conclude that the he wouldn't have been given the label of "IT," see Neustadt’s Presidential Power essay.
This public factor is what has defined the IT factor in the media's eye. The label of the IT Factor given by the media and the populous is a varying and changing, given and taken away by actions, while the label given by peers isn't given lightly and usually stays despite success or failure. I want to look at both sides.
Media IT Factor:
The media will award the IT Factor label for varying reasons, here are a few examples along with the media proclamation of their IT Factor:
- Drive to win, competitive will. Examples: Tim Tebow link John Elway
- Background, what they've overcome, pride. Examples: Michael Oher link Ray Lewis link
- Ability to lift teammates, make those around them better: Peyton Manning link Joe Montana link
- Physical ability. Examples: Jay Cutler link Joe Flacco link
When it to comes to the media, these four types are the main types of abilities fans and analysts look for when giving the label. It is more commonly given to those like Manning who make their teammates better and lift their team higher. It is also sometimes given to those with the drive to win and physical ability, but these two are the mostly likely to be taken away. The rarest type I've seen is the one where it's based on their background and their pride. This type is almost never taken away, and is possibly the most respected of all the types among players and coaches link and link.
The main point and problem with the media assigning the IT factor is they are as quick to take the label away as they are to apply it.
- Jay Cutler had it coming into the draft, and even was seen as having it early in his career. But has apparently lost id due to struggles and some parts of his personality that aren't likable. Link, link and link.
- Brady Quinn had it during college and in the pre-draft phase. He was seen as a skilled leader who lifted his teammates to higher levels. Now no one would give him that label. Link.
- Marc Bulger was seen as a nobody, but due to stellar play early in his St. Louis career, he was seen as their future, and proclaimed one of the best young quarterbacks, and given the IT label. It was latter taken away as his play declined and is now seen as an average back up. Link and link.
- Ben Roethlisberger was drafted as a long term project, but due to circumstances he was thrust into the starting job. Since then he's won two Super Bowls and has been given the IT Factor. But since the allegations against him have come to light, he has had that label stripped, despite not playing any football. Since his return, he's actually got his IT Factor back due to his great play. Link, link, link and link.
- Tom Brady was a nobody before he was given the chance to show he could succeed. Brady has three rings, and is one of the winningest quarterbacks in history. Prior to his success, he wouldn't have been given any label worth mentioning, but due to success, especially in the playoffs, Brady is seen as a shining example of the IT Factor. Link.
This changing label doesn't lend much credence to when the media gives the label to a player. This lack of regularity and stability create a very mobile and weak term that gets tossed around, and is losing it's meaning in the media. At this point, from any reliable stand point, if the media or fans give a player the label IT Factor, it should be heavily relied on. In the media and especially with the fans since we rarely have any contact with players, we look at the IT factor as confidence, big play ability, similar things listed above. But the thing with those way of looking at the IT Factor is that since it's relied on success, both personal and team, if theirs a down turn in production, for whatever reason, the label is taken away. We must find a better way to define the IT Factor, so to due that, we will move on to how players and coaches see and define the IT Factor.
Player/Coach IT Factor:
While there is some overlap between the media and peer definitions, they are different in some key areas. Here are some key points:
- It's not just about flashy play, it's about consistency, doing it week in and week out. A player who give it their all is seen much higher by his peers and coaches then the player who makes one or two big plays a game. Link.
- I found players are actually just as likely to say a defensive player has the IT Factor as an offensive player, something that isn't true for the media. And it isn't about stats or physical ability, it's about intensity. Andra Davis makes a nice point:
The thing is that look in the eye that a man brings to the game. Ray Lewis and 'Dawk' both have it. And you need it. That's what takes your defense to the next level. Link
- Taking pride in your work, playing with confidence, and earning respect are keys to having the IT Factor from a players and coaches view. To players, you earn the IT, you don't "just have it" you don't earn it, lose it, earn it, lose it, that's not IT. When a player earns IT, they don't stop playing well, and a struggles that they experienced are ways of proving their IT. You don't have the IT till you've overcome a rough patch, your ability to overcome that rough spot is rewarded with the IT. Link. Brian Dawkins calls these players "warriors" those who've earned their strips. Link. Ray Lewis says it's about seizing what you are given.
Guess what? We are back in it again for another opportunity to go back and all you can ask for is an opportunity, and that what we want, just an opportunity. Bottom line is if you can get that opportunity, grab the moment man, don’t let everybody push you away with ‘There’s so much pressure. What if this, what if that?’ Forget about the what ifs and just go have fun and play football and that’s what we’re focusing on and wherever we end up, that’s where we end up. Link
- Age and experience is a big part, Lewis looks at players like Dawkins or Mike Brown, who are playing top football. That consistency and wisdom adds to the IT Factor that has already been proven.
I’ve been watching and studying football, the people who are having the most success are the ones that have been in the league a long time and have been very consistent. Link
- Players don't care about college success, they know there's a difference between the NFL and college, there's a reason they haze rookies, to let them know they don't care about their past, they want proof, either in practice or in games. Young players who deal with rookie problems while remaining confident but humble, that's the first big step according to Mike Holmgren. He says what he saw from Colt McCoy, a guy he didn't want to use any time soon, was exactly what he wanted, a guy who experienced unprecedented college success, came in very humble to camp, studied very hard, Delhomme say he hadn't seen a rookie study that hard. McCoy remained humble, and when he saw his time had come, ran into the huddle, and took command. His teammates wouldn't give him the IT Factor, but they acknowledge he's getting there. Holmgren, one of the best quarterback minds in the NFL, said he's never met a rookie with the IT Factor, but he's seen the potential. Link, link, link and link.
- Players and coaches expect a player who has the IT Factor to not bring their personal life into the game and locker room, but seem to not care about personal issues as long as they maintain what has been talked about before, such as hard work, inner fire, excellence in field, and experience. If it doesn't affect their game, teammates don't seem to mind. Link and link.
- The media and fan version of the IT Factor is more of wunderkind, more often given to young players who haven't played very long then to players who have earned it. John Harbaugh believes he's seen more defensive players have the IT Factor then rookie quarterbacks, but the media and fans never give them the label. Link and link.
- But like Holmgren said, younger players can have that potential. In Arizona running back Jason White said about his rookie, but 25 year old, quarterback:
There are certain people, when they walk into a room, they could be the newest person there, but when they speak, they speak in a certain way and they come across with a certain air, and you are going to listen, even if they are the brand-new guy. Link
Steve Breaston said it's how you feel like you could, if he proves it, follow him anywhere.
- To players and coaches, a large number of players have this potential, from Tim Tebow to Travis Johnson. It's a rare few who actually reach that potential.
- Some players don't even believe in the IT Factor. They believe players can play better then others, but they don't believe that players are naturally better because of the IT Factor. They feel a player earns respect, and they follow those they respect, it has nothing to do with anything besides how a player works and plays. Tom Brady said he's played with people who the media said had the media had the IT Factor, and he didn't see them play any better then those whom the media didn't give the label to. He pretty much referred to it as superstar treatment. Link.
- Covered in the links above, here are a few of the players who are viewed having the IT Factor by their peers and coaches that are currently playing:
- Peyton Manning
- Ray Lewis
- Brian Dawkins
- Haloti Nagata
- Tom Brady
- Mike Brown
- Michael Oher
- Brett Favre
There aren't that many players who have been labeled by their fellow players as having the IT Factor.
Conclusion:
There is a huge difference between how coaches and players view the IT factor versus how the media and fans view the IT Factor. Media gives it to the hot player at the time, and will take it away for various reasons. Players and coaches give it to those who've earned it over years of play, who have a fire. This difference is huge. At any time, the media may have dozens or more of IT Factor players in the league at a time, to the actual men on the field, there aren't that many.
After doing this research, I have lost respect for anyone other then those who share a locker room with the player. Retired players who aren't on the field, either practice or in game, while having a better understanding, still lack the key factor needed to know whether a player has the IT Factor, playing with or against them. Because of the changing criteria and how often it's used and taken away by the media, I'm not going to personally listen to the media's view of the IT Factor.
This leads me to believe the IT Factor isn't confidence, being an outspoken player, it isn't just being a great player, it isn't just about desire. It's earned, by the quite and strong, by the dependable player, the one who is respected, and by those who've overcome trial and emerged stronger.
Since I've been studying this, I've also discovered a lot about what it means to be Clutch, and that will be the focus of my next piece.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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How do you apply that to offensive lineman and role players?
Cause it looks like Oher is meantioned a lot.
That's partly true
But I did find plenty of players who were on teams that won a lot of games, but lacked any sign of the IT Factor. While there are worse ways to describe the IT Factor, players like Culpepper won a lot of games with a lot of talent around him, he was said to have the IT Factor, but in the end, wins weren’t everything when you describe a player. And I did find, like godofdeath said, a lot of defensive and offensive lineman who were said to have the IT Factor by other players, making it hard to really base an individual trait on a team sport result.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
The IT factor
is a nebulous term that is qualitative and, therefore impossible to measure. The IT factor is also not a permanent thing, it changes and manifests itself in countless ways, which complicates the situation even more. This reminds me of the topic of “leadership.” I laugh when I hear someone say definitively “leadership is” this or “leadership is” that. There are a million different ways to be a leader and there are a million different ways the It factor manifests itself.
You give greatest credence, in the football sense, to those who share the locker room. I agree. It seems like the great players always say the same thing. They want the respect of their peers first and foremost. So, in this sense, I think you are onto something. However, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss those who have been there before or those who studiously pay attention either. Though they might not have the best vantage point, they at least still have some sort of vantage point.
I agree, but like I said, while retired players have a better vantage point then most analysts, Ray Lewis made a great comment in one of the articles, I’ll paraphrase, if you aren’t in the locker room or on the field, shut up. He makes a good point, and we like to see what our legends think of the rookies, but like most of the players said, unless you are there, you don’t see that much. I kept my personal thought out of it till the conclusion, which is my own, but the players as a whole don’t really follow what retired players or analysts say about the IT Factor, it’s what their peers and coaches say.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
IT factor
Wow, I look at the IT factor entirely differently. Or maybe I don’t pay attention to it at all. I know that this article is about Tebow.
To me, it’s more a matter of this. Can the player improvise? What can they do when the play breaks down? How many ways can the player beat you? That’s where I think Tebow has more promise than Orton.
As for “mystique” or whatever, I could(n’t) care less about that stuff.
It's not about Tebow, well it's about all players so it's about Tebow as well I guess
But I’ve been working on this since before we drafted Tebow. But Tebow has brought it to the forefront of members minds. I didn’t believe of the IT Factor prior to my conclusion I didn’t even believe in it, but now I do. This is just a list of quotes and summeries of what players, coaches and writers have said. And I trust them a lot more then anyone else on football matters.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
To me
it includes an “I’m gonna come out and do what I do and kick your a$$” attitude/confidence that could be taken as mystique.
And it's not running around telling everyone how you're going to kick it
It’s the smirk or the look in the eye of “you’re mine”. A mostly quiet way of saying “bring it because it ain’t gonna be enough.”
IT factor
very interesting subject. I think it has to be a based on personal views, since their is know formula or way to track it with stats.
Yes there's mysteries in the basement
But there's comic books upstairs
Nope, there isn't
And to people who don’t like stats, it’s the best way to attack or defend a player. After researching this post, I am inclined to believe it exists, but more in the limited sense that players do. I did this post because I didn’t understand the IT Factor, and it was interesting topic, like you said.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
exactly, I think it has substance, but is a term that can be misused. For example, before Peyton Manning won a Supper Bowl and Brady had a few, Brady had IT, and Manning didn’t, he couldn’t win the big game, etc… The IT factor kind of flows in the same vein as being “clutch”, or the ability to “win the big game”. Of immense importance, but so hard to quantify or put a value on.
Yes there's mysteries in the basement
But there's comic books upstairs
Exactly, and I've been working on my clutch piece as well
They are pretty convoluted terms. I just did my best to organize the quotes and info that I found.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
begin rant/ Jesus Christ...enough with the Orton/Tebow bullshit.
I am over with this debate. Orton doesn’t have IT….yet. Neither does Tebow….yet.
Can we please focus on the rest of this season? I am going to critique Orton all I want, but you’ll never hear me call for Tebow to start this season.
You know IT when you see IT…we have not seen any IT on this team. We know a group of you are “Orton guys” and another group are “Tebow guys”…there is no way to reconcile the two. I’m an Orton/Tebow guy…Orton starts, Tebow learns. Eventually, McD will decide if I am to become only an Orton guy or only a Tebow guy…that’s that.
I’d just like to see the bickering go away for a while so we can talk about this team without feeling like at any moment someone’s going to accuse you of being an Orton homer or Tebowmaniac. ::rolling of the eyes::
/end rant
Maxwellsdemon, enjoyed the read and it was interesting. I think, though, that “IT” is only quantifiable by ones perception and if enough perceptions agree, the belief in a players “IT” factor becomes true.
When I asserted that Orton didn’t have “IT” several weeks ago, that was based upon my perception of what I have seen from him during his entire career. That is not to say he isn’t a serviceable quarterback.
I will say, I was wrong to say Tebow has “IT”. I should have said, I think he might have “IT”, so therefore Tebow is a big fat “IF”. In the end, I am content with the way things are now at the QB position and I anxious await McD’s final decision because I am sick of the debate itself! ;-)
btw, my rant was not directed at you personally Maxwell…it was to the entire MHR community. Because “IT” has been an Orton/Tebow centric topic I chose now to rant about it. lol
Part of this post feels like a response to some of the things I have said in the past month.
Words like IT and Clutch are subjective to a persons perception. I am not sure using any links will help in this matter. In the future, when I use these terms I will be sure to define them as I perceive. As I define them, Orton does not qualify at all. On the flip side, neither does Tebow. The difference, only one has had a chance to allow me to make such a subjective judgement. Is it fair? No. Is it my job to be fair? No. It’s my job to be honest with my beliefs and to share my opinion.
I still believe that Orton will not be a Bronco by the end of 2012, more likely by the end of 2011. It’s not because I have a hardon for Tebow, rather that is what my gut is telling me. If I am wrong, I’ll be the first to admit it and I’ll be 100% behind Orton. However, I’m not going to spend any more time trying to reason with those of you who are hardcore Orton or Tebow guys. There is no reasoning with people so emotionally tied to a single player, so I will no longer try.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
wow
don’t think the post was about Tebow/Orton specifically.
Yes there's mysteries in the basement
But there's comic books upstairs
The whole IT and Clutch thing is 100% Orton/Tebow.
I’m just tired of the merry-go-round. I’ll shut up and avoid all of the diatribe. ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
you remember this dude
Orton/Tebow now that we are losing and losing BIG is eerily similar to Plummer/Cutler a few years back!
Everyone wants to see what their new toy does. As kids we had to take it out of the box in the car. When we lost pieces in the car the toy was worthless. IF only we had waited til we got home to open the package how much more fun we would have had.
Next year, I don’t know who the Quarterback is but dudes and dudettes, let Orton finish out!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Oct 30, 2010 2:48 AM MDT up reply actions
exactly JT
The unknown is always yearned for, but it is unjustly given accolades before being tested.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
by KaptainKirk on Oct 30, 2010 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not saying Tebow will be Cutler by any means
But the cries of the fans are very similar. New toys are popular.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Yes new toys are nice.
Look at the Chiefs, most of our new toys are on the field and playing, but is that a good thing or does it show the complete lack of talent behind them. I would have been pissed if E.Berry would have still been on the bench at this point, but he has cost us 5 or 6 TD’s this year already. So i guess i can understand why so many want to see Tebow get some time on the field.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
by CPT.Caveman on Oct 30, 2010 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions
New Toys are popular
but the question is do we want to lose the jet pack now? or wait til we get home and see how cool the jet pack makes the toy!?
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
i hear ya tim, and i respect your opinion.
i just happen to think that tebow will be playing a much bigger factor as the season wears on. he may or may not start, but another loss or two and it’s just inevitable man. i don’t think it’s completely absurd to feel that way.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Wow this wasn't about Tebow/Orton
I mentioned twice I started this before Tebow was drafted, and I did expect backlash from someshort sighted memebers, but not from a staffer, I mean come on Nick. This isn’t about Tebow or Orton or Elway, but because fans are so emotionally charged right now, just about anything will start a fire. And if anything, this post is pro-Tebow not anti-Tebow. It supports the existence of the IT Factor, something I didn’t really put much credence behind.
So for you people who think this is about Tebow/Orton, IT’S NOT! If you feel it is, go ahead, but it wasn’t written to be that way. So take what you want, but don’t blame the author. This has nothing to do with the loss, with Tebow, Orton, or McD, if you see a connection, check your mind for the connection before the author.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Sorry, you're Tim
Nick is someone else, may bad, stupid distracting phone calls.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
maybe not max,
but after the recent chain of events you can clearly see that this post certainly has an underlying theme to it. whether it was intended or not, now that’s debatable. you say it wasn’t, so i’ll take you at face value.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
I realize that your post is not about tebow orton
at least on the surface…
When you consider the timing of your release and the label in discussion how could you not think people would take it this way?
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Oct 30, 2010 2:49 AM MDT up reply actions
I did know it would b brought up
But like I responded to Tim, the Tebow/Orton debate was only going to get worse, it was release the post now or never.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 30, 2010 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Jeez
I didn’t even comment and you’re still berating at me!
lol
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"I'm really not this fat. I'm looking at myself on the screen and that 14 looks huge. Jeez dude, do a sit up." -John "Guru" Bena
Haha sorry and it wasn't even you Nick
My friend was on the phone with me at the time.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Yeah...I disagree with Max pretty regularly but I took this as an article on intangibles and not Orton vs Tebow....anyway, good article man!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Thanks Boydy
And while it is easy to make a connection to Tebow/Orton because of what is happening now, but I tried to keep them out of it as much as possible.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
And because I can't ever get this thing to edit correctly
Here’s the second part: I don’t even want Tebow or Orton in this conversation, it was really meant to get other peoples view on IT more then anything. I wanted to learn more about what IT was and how the MSM and fans viewed it compared to players and coaches. This is a collection of my research. It isn’t meant to be biased against any player, it’s just a collection of quotes and articles I found. I realize that IT is a hot topic now, but I know that as the season progressed, the window to release these two pieces would shrink and it would only be worse. I felt it was better to release it now then during an even more emotionally charged offseason, where posts like this are more common. I appreciate your thoughts on the topic though Tim, so thanks.
This was supposed to be part of the first comment, so the first may come off one way and this another, but they are to be taken together, that’s mine and the comment box’s bad.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Ok, then if I could delete my comment I would.
I am so over the Orton/Tebow crap…sorry. I actually brought them up didnt I? lmao
I see “IT” as an entirely subjective term…each person is going to make their own judgement.
Sorry for the hijacking.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Please.
If we could delete comments we’d never get to be MHR ass clowns. and what fun is that?
I'm not sugarcoating this.
i dont see many MHR ass clowns, certainly I've never been one!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Don't delete your comment
I’m just trying not to turn a thread with little to do with QB’s in general into a Orton/Tebow debate. I know how you hate those.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Max,
I agree with you that we need to bring back the old ways of MHR discussions. Steve has some great articles on that, but perhaps its time for a new one.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
I knew this would cause a backlash
But I knew it was get it out now or never, because this debate isn’t going away. I’m a big fan of learning on the site, that’s why I love MHR University and similar posts.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I think that even if you did bring it up with ORton/Tebow in mind
it would be a strident challenge that we are capable of taking on… Nothing like “live fire” to really learn something.
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Hell i thought you was talking about cousin IT.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
by CPT.Caveman on Oct 29, 2010 11:48 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
we are related...the furry creature i am
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
So you're saying Tebow has the "IF" Factor?!
LOL just kidding…. I am with you here. I have been SO quiet this week…. I am a Orton homer it appears, when all I REALLY want is for the Broncos to win and win often!
"In a word, Uncompetitive.'' - Josh McDaniels, 10/23/10
"It" is something you see, not something you take from people like Peter King
Perhaps your view of the “it” factor is your belief it derives from the media.
My feeling about Tebow is what I’ve seen with my own eyes. It has nothing to do with media hype. Indeed, Elway was much hyped by the media when he came into the league. Yet my own eyes told me he was a liability until well into his 3rd season. When he began to show “it,” I could agree he had it.
There's a reason I got so much more material from the MSM then from actual players
Players rarely speak about it, and a lot just mock it. While I do believe there is something about it that’s real, the players who did speak made a good case, but I don’t think it’s a common thing like the MSM is tossing around. Not even going to talk about Tebow. This was meant as educational, not as a piece meant to turn any member a certain way.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
"IT Factor" for me is roughly the same as "Franchise Quarterback"
Both terms are totally subjective, and are usually defined by criteria that will support a player(s) that the definer wants to promote while excluding a player(s) that the definer does not want viewed in that way.
Both Max and TIm alluded to this in what they said:
I think, though, that "IT" is only quantifiable by ones perception and if enough perceptions agree, the belief in a players "IT" factor becomes true. — Tim
This leads me to believe the IT Factor isn’t confidence, being an outspoken player, it isn’t just being a great player, it isn’t just about desire. It’s earned, by the quite and strong, by the dependable player, the one who is respected, and by those who’ve overcome trial and emerged stronger. — Max
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Thanks Brian
The IT Factor was just a useless term when used by the media or fans, but when used by other players, they were much more hesitant to use the term, and it had different meaning then what most see it as.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
not to be arrogant...
But I have a little bit of IT in me. I think you guys are trying to read too much into it.
All my life, when I’ve been in any type of group, I was somehow the guy who all the decisions ran through. I was always the guy all my friends tried to impress the most. I was always the guy everybody said had IT.
I’m not good looking, nor do I excel at anything. I have no idea why I’ve always been that guy. I don’t think you can point to stats, measurements or anything to define IT. Its gotta be chemical or something. That’s my best guess. FWIW
by ten_fiver on Oct 29, 2010 8:39 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
i can attest to having very similar experiences in my own life.
kind of like when there is a decision to be made all eyes suddenly turn to you. you don’t ask for it to happen, it just kind of does. i think the chemical side of it could be something. it’s like people just respond, identify and even sometimes gravitate towards you.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
if the two of you got together
there would be some kind of anti matter implosion resulting in a worm hole, maybe.
I'm not sugarcoating this.
Could be fun
Just for experimental purposes of course.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
im down
We could solve the earths energy needs. (And make some coin)
by ten_fiver on Oct 29, 2010 9:40 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
no coin for you.
you’d be ’sploded.
however, on behalf of the remaining biological parties, we thank you for your participation and sacrifice.
I'm not sugarcoating this.
lol
that would rule.. i think? kinda donnie darko style.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
haha
Funniest thing I ever read Oxmouth.
Its anchorman not anchorlady. And that is a scientific FACT!
Yeah I have IT in me to...and the SH part too!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
ITSH?
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2010 4:09 PM MDT up reply actions
yes JB
THAT’S what he meant ha ha
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Oct 30, 2010 5:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I had potential once, is that close to having the "IT" factor:P
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
by CPT.Caveman on Oct 29, 2010 11:23 PM MDT up reply actions
no.
you really did have “IT” potential but alas, you have the tragic fatal flaw, chiefs fan.
I'm not sugarcoating this.
Over the last 4 years it has been tragic:P
4-2 is the best start we’ve had in 12 years, i couldn’t believe we were that bad for so long.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
by CPT.Caveman on Oct 29, 2010 11:46 PM MDT up reply actions
What? :P
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
by CPT.Caveman on Oct 30, 2010 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Huh?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Maybe braille
except he’s blind, not deaf, but he still has to read this…wait, what?
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 31, 2010 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions
IT = 21
i’m an okay blackjack player; win some, lose some. there are people—and not card counters—who are very good at blackjack. it makes no sense really, because we’re talking about a game of chance. the thing is, these bastar… these guys… mostly stick with blackjack protocol (like i do) but double down and shove in the chips when they “feel it” (me too), play with the confidence of a bear in a cock fight (as do i—thanks, beer!) and actually beat vegas consistently over the long haul (me too! well, i mean, i’ll get there. i swear. i just need to gank some guap off ya..)
so yeah, some folk got it, some folk don’t. it’s not a science it’s an art. or maybe more of a call. and i reserve the right to make that call: tebow’s got IT, kyle does not. promise. (mind you, i lose at blackjack and have changed my mind about jay cutler having IT. still though…)
I'm not sugarcoating this.
IT:
is when i see tebow, there is just something about him. everyone that has came in contact with him says there is something very unique and special about him. i like kyle orton, i do. i have nothing against the guy, other than he just does not inspire confidence in me as a fan. moreover, he makes me feel dread. i am not knocking him, this is an honest assessment. i can’t explain WHY i feel that way, all i know is that i am 100% sure that is what the feeling is. to me, tebow is like peyton manning in the way he presents himself. very pc, definitely not going to be too colorful, always very respectful of his teammates and coaches etc (i know manning called out his o-line after the superbowl loss, but imo he had every right..) so in this regard he gets IT. IT could also be a tangible thing, like for instance, mobility. our o-line has been shaky at best, so having someone back there that can avoid the rush could do wonders for our offense. again, just my opinion.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
agreed.
i just don’t think kyle has IT. never will. i think i’d rather hang with kyle and go to a christmas party at his house or something, but it’s talent, confidence, and bull-freaking-headedness. i think IT is mostly:
“okay, #$@# you guys. you don’t want to win? I DO, so we’re going to.”
btw, no one embodies that more than elway (maybe M.Jordan). dude might be the best kept secret greatest player in the history of the NFL for that reason. not 2 superbowls, people— 5 (FIVE) superbowls. FIVE.
I'm not sugarcoating this.
i dig your enthusiasm
and honestly, i don’t know about 5 super bowls, but i do believe tebow has what it takes to be our starter at some point. i also believe that he will be the one that we have been waiting for since elway left. i know we have has some good qb’s since that have been on the roster, kyle orton being one of them. however, i just have a hunch (and please, please forgive my cheesiness, but there is simple no other way to say it…) that tebow is the one. i do not think i am alone in this feeling. i could be completely way off base. there is just no way to know for sure until he plays some extended meaningful snaps and actually has a chance to throw the ball. a lot of people are of the opinion that mcd doesn’t have the confidence in tebow to play him and that is why he hasn’t let him throw a pass yet. well, what if mcd is just holding on to his ace until the best possible time to play it. so what if he has been wrong on other things, no coach is perfect. just IMAGINE for a second, if that’s indeed the case, that he is right this time.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
last sentence should have read
“what it would be like if he were right this time.” sorry, train of thought got away from me and my fingers are proof lol
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be.
Great post Max
As a outsider looking in, i have to question why the QB spot is even in question. When at this point other than the injured players you could pretty much list the rest of the roster and question whether they have “IT” or not. Not trying to be a smartass, just speaking the truth.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Not sure, but the QB is in the spotlight, therefore will get the most critisism
Whether that is right or wrong, it’s just the way it is.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
You are reading my mind max
stop IT.
Seriously though, I have been researching this topic for a few months now for an article in next year’s Broncos Annual (godwilling), and I appreciate this post of yours, as it helps me organize what I’m thinking somewhat.
However, I have the opposite inclination that you do… I lean (skew really) towards no IT. And I am positive that my reasons will be highly repulsive to many… But I think therein lies a critical silver lining. I firmly believe if we can develop the intellectual rigor to remove IT from the conversation, then we might shine our light on a trait that each and everyone of us is capable of, that is an essential part of not only our nature but our evolution, and which can be fully understood and rallied around.
On teh other hand, if we fully understood IT, it might lose its effectiveness, no? ;)
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2010 12:56 AM MDT reply actions
Haha thanks Jeremy
I didn’t really care for IT, actually I mocked IT a lot. And even after this research, I won’t use it often, especially from the media, but I do believe it when the players give the label to another player it carries some worth. The greatest respect is that of your peers and coaches, and I believe that’s how it is in the NFL. Now since this is a topic that can’t be defined completely, this study is obviously fruitless in a universal sense, but the work gave me a better understanding of the topic, and I got some great articles to read as well.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Why not a Bronco's Survivor-like reality show?
I miss these research articles, even if on ambiguous topics like the “it” factor. And I agree with you on this point, MWD – I do wish we had access to more discussion and quotes from players about other players. I would love to hear more about who they think the next star will be, who on the practice squad is making a big impression and is likely to move to the 53 squad, etc., etc., etc…
The NFL is a prolific marketing machine, but maybe they are missing a HUGE opportunity to increase fanship and revenues. Players and coaches always spout the same company line: “We need to work hard, coach hard, respect our opponent, blah, blah, blah”. But we have so little REAL information and thoughts from those that play the game. Most of the comments at the water cooler and on fan sites like MHR are simply speculation on what the coach is probably thinking, what the players are probably thinking, what the locker room environment is probably like, etc.. All speculation, with few facts.
Too bad the NFL doesn’t cast each team in Survivor reality show format. It would be like a HBO Hard Knocks show available for each team, but with even more personal info from players. I would pay for access to that in a heartbeat!
How cool would it be if we had a Survivor-like Broncos reality show, where the cameras were already rolling. Think about it:
- competition battle status – updates on who is winning at each position (particularly QB)
- specific preparations for the game, including trick plays, etc. (shown during the week after the game is played
- inside jokes and pranks
- players personal relationships, relationships with coaches
- personal locker room discussions
- thoughts from veterans on new high-$$$ draft picks (jealousy, threatened!)
- coaches thoughts on players strengths and weaknesses, opponents strengths and weaknesses
- updates from the coach on who was at risk of losing starting job (getting voted off the island)
- considerations of who should be traded, or why trade was made
- overall strategy and long-term plans for next season
- contract disputes
What would you add to the show?
Thanks, Maxwell
In my opinion, IT is something most often seen in the rear view mirror, when it can be recognized. And it comes and goes. Manning definitley did not have IT in the 4th quarter of the SB when he threw the INT (a very bad throw).
Elway certainly had IT during The Drive, but not in the resulting Super bowl, nor his other two early Super Bowls. He definitely had IT during the SB win over the Packers.
And it’s not something that comes from one player, not in football. Either the whole team has IT, or they don’t.
Take it easy, but take it. Studs Terkel
Thanks for the thought bradley
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 30, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
The problem with IT
If you believe in IT, or are cautiously optimistic that IT exists, there should be a way of applying cause and effect to the idea. Problem is, all the descriptions I am reading all basically say the same thing. “After IT manifests, you have IT.” I liked Maxwell’s attempt to pin IT down with his rough taxonomy above, but its till amounted to fundamentally the same thing.
Did Elway not have IT because he lost Superbowls? How about after? Did he have IT before, as manifested in his many comebacks, despite not winning a big game? Did he have IT when he was throwing interceptions, prior to getting behind in games that he would eventually come back in? What about the ones that he lost? There is an infinite regression going on here that defies logic.
The word as it seems to be used means almost anything, as long as it means success. In fact, IT most generally seems to be applied as a synonym for success. The thing about success is you can’t have it until you have it. I think the problem comes when people try to use it as a way of saying that someone or other is guaranteed to have success. Since that statement is easily ignored or dismissed, it gets substituted with “So and so has IT.” They have smuggled in the statement “So and so is guaranteed to have success.”
“Guaranteed Success” is an important part of the concept too, since who would say that someone who has never won anything or been a leader or has been wholly average has IT? It amounts to saying “So and so fails and is guaranteed success,” which would be a contradiction.
Bradley provides the first beachhead in his description above of actually wrangling the concept of IT into something clearly delineated, cleansed of superstition and confusion and ultimately beneficial.
It comes and goes.
This may not seem like much but it is a good start. It resolves the contradiction that a player described as having IT actually failed to have IT at one or another point.
Now I don’t mean to rule out of hand that IT can’t be an intrinsic property of someone, which would mean that it is built into them like a 6th toe, and some have it some don’t. However, given what we have discussed so far, I can’t imagine a scenario where ITs influence can be delimited just to explain the successes and not be accountable for the failures. The result is compartmentalization where one part of the reality you are describing doesn’t connect to the other parts if it is inconvenient.
So if IT comes and goes, chances are that by looking at when it is present vs. when it isn’t, we can gain a clearer understanding of what exactly IT is. If we want to lay claim to the mana of IT in discussing a player’s potential, we will need to be prepared to apply cause and effect to it, and come up with some concrete, non-contradictory characteristics of it. As I said before, I believe that once this is done we will discover that the term is archaic and useless, at its worst usage being an invalid concept that damages any discussion it is in, and at its best usage a redundant (and utterly nondescriptive) synonym for another word that better describes a virtue or value that I believe has an identity and can be taught, learned, conditioned, and, ultimately, called upon at will.
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2010 2:17 PM MDT reply actions
Great thoughts Jeremy
After all the reading I did, I’m leaning towards IT existing, but I am 100% using IT as a label that comes and goes, no player ever used it in that tense, it’s an achievement, once you’ve earned it, you are a changed player. This was especially evident among quotes from defensive players. Once you’ve emerged with IT, you will play at a higher level, it’s what sets you apart from your peers. Ray Lewis was the #1 labeled player, and almost every time they mentioned him they said that no matter how he plays it’s just a bit better then those around him. I don’t think that if IT did exist it would come and go according to wins or a bad game, because that defies the very principle, IT sticks with the player even if his team struggles, and it doesn’t go away because of a bad game. IT is permanent, at least in the players and coaches mind, it isn’t a wishy-washy label.
Now this is just what I read from the players and coaches, and I tend to agree with them, any label of merit shouldn’t come and go, because it will lose value. A label of value is one given over time, is earned, and sticks with the player. If it comes and goes, it’s about as useful as any other label. But since we can’t pin this idea down to it’s basics, and I just collected data, it’s impossible to clarify, and I can completely understand how IT could not exist at all, it’s undefinable, unrecordable, unknowable, something inside a player.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
undefinable, unrecordable, unknowable
Sounds like nothing to me… :)
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2010 2:37 PM MDT reply actions
supposed to be a reply to max...
Labeling a player as valuable is perfectly understandable, but assigning them some new characteristic the way a general pins medals on his soldiers, is simply too illogical for my blood…
Now, if IT were a superbowl ring, then it starts to make sense. The player always has IT (assuming someone doesn’t steal IT), the player may even stand out in a crowd because of IT (“look at that bling!”), IT may make the player more intimidating (“You see this ring punk? I’m a champion!”), and IT may even lead to more effective play (“Hurts to be hit by a 16 oz ring, don’t it?”).
But as far as a quality of their character or ability? That would be a miracle.
I strongly believe that “chance” is a major player in all this, and if it was given its due, players would be more interested in having some much more specific value or trait of theirs recognized, rather then get tagged with an IT label….
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2010 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions
That's the difference, in sports, especially team sports
Average players can shine when surrounded by talent, winning Super Bowls, and getting that ring. Now obviously some of the best players, especially lineman on both sides of the ball, never had rings, so it’s not something that can be based on wins or team success, it’s a personal thing. I never played football, but I play soccer, both in high school and in college, and I’ve seen some of the best players on poor teams that rarely won.
Now I don’t like the idea of IT, I’ve argued against it before and mocked it, but I just get the feeling after reading what I did that there is something about players like Lewis who’ve overcome something to be the best that sets them apart for the rest of their career.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I agree to some extent
there certainly is something that they have gained through their experience that sets them apart. i think they have developed a very specific skill, especially in regards to football, but it is still a skill that requires effort to use, though once you condition it enough, it is reflexive to a large degree, and very little effort is required compared to when you are first learning it.
So add, “It can be gained through experience” to “it comes and goes”. We’re getting closer all the time…
Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the fraternity of strangers.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2010 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Haha with a topic like this, there won't ever be complete reconcilation
People don’t agree about concepts that are less vague, so coming to common ground will be tough to do with a topic like this. It’s an interesting topic to learn about though.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Back in '69
I had a summer cab driving job in Chicago. I picked up one of the College All Stars who had missed the bus, and drove him to the game. (The College All Stars played the NFL winner every Spring before training camps started.) He was a defensive player. I told him that I thought a running back from Michigan was great and that O.J. was overrated. The player just laughed, and said that O.J. was the greatest player he had ever seen. To me, that’s the IT factor: when the guys you play with are in awe of what you can do.
I largely agree, and that's what I got from what the players said
Those who are respected by the league as a whole in their position. Those rarely chosen people are who the players think have the IT factor. This is just the opinion of some of the players though, but I hesitantly agree with them.
Also, O.J. Simpson in my experience was one of the best players ever. No one averaged more yards per game then Mr. Simpson. Dude was a beast when he played, a different kind of beast after he stopped playing.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Well I didn't think you were talking about Tebow and Orton in particular at all
They just happen to be examples in your thesis. Kurt Warner would fit right in with the rest of those up top. I also thought that Plummer and Cutler defined the point. You did a nice job here max. There is probably more to it than what you have stated, but the presentation and effort was very good. Thanks.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
by KaptainKirk on Oct 30, 2010 7:10 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
With a topic like this, there is alway more to be stated
But as I search the internet and sporting magazines, this was all the quotes, articles and information I could find. Thank KK.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I am hitting roadblocks on my next subject too.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
by KaptainKirk on Oct 30, 2010 10:24 PM MDT up reply actions
It's been known to happen, good luck
Research and presentation can be a pain to put together.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 31, 2010 12:07 AM MDT up reply actions
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