McDaniels doesn't know talent
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 9:53 AM MST
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I have tried for a year and a half to support Josh McDaniels but it has become very evident that he has no clue on talent. He traded Peyton Hillis and Tony Scheffler for next to nothing and has made alot of questionable draft picks.
I am just going to give you 1 example.
McDaniels trades a 2nd Round Pick ,3rd Round Pick and 4th Round Pick for Baltimores 1st Round Pick in order to draft Tim Tebow.
If McDaniels had a clue that Kyle Orton was going to throw for 20 TD's and 6 Int's and is on pace for over 4900 yards , he would have never drafted for Tim Tebow. McDaniels obviously didn't believe in Orton and he was wrong. So wrong that he extended Kyle Orton's contract for 1 year and 9 Million.
Everytime that I see Peyton Hillis score a TD - I want to puke(on Josh). He completely wiffed on evalutating Hillis.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is a look at who Denver could have gotten instead of drafting Tebow.
2nd Round Pick(43rd) -------- LaMarr Houston , Linval Joseph or Terrance Cody - DT's
3rd Round Pick (70th)-------- John Jerry , Jordan Shipley , Tony Moeaki ,Jimmy Graham , Alterraun Verner
4th Round Pick (114th)-------- Dennis Pitta , John Connor , Cam Thomas , Riley Cooper , Arthur Jones.
My picks would have been
2nd Round - Terrance Cody - 6'5" 330lbs - NT - Alabama
3rd Round - Jimmy Graham - 6'7" 265lbs - TE - Miami
4th Round - John Connor "The Terminator" - FB
These 3 players would have given Denver 3 great young players who would have helped Denver reload with talent.
"The definition of Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result" Denver must hire a GM capable of correctly evaluating TALENT.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I have to agree… McDaniels has struggled mightily to evaluate talent… I would even add alphonso smith to the list
Did you see A Smith's last couple of games
He got burned badly, i mean badly many many times, especially from the Patriots stellar receivers.
by diehardbronco2 on Nov 30, 2010 11:24 AM MST up reply actions
Smith
gave up 3 receiving touchdowns and wiffed on 3 or 4 tackles that I saw in that Patriots game; with all that, I still think he’s better than Nate Jones…
You can take the man out of Colorado, but you can't take Colorado out of the man.
by manbearpig5000000 on Nov 30, 2010 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
+1 to Jag (jabsbch???)
And to clarify why this is a seperate comment vs. a reply to his…
and nuts I’m still re-iterating…..
I’ve said this before in regards to Hillis. Regardless of how well he EVER did for us in the past. There are a couple of factors people tend to forget.
A. Hillis NEVER put up the consistent dominating style of performance that he has in Cleveland. He put up GREAT performances for a short time before injured in 2008, but nothing remotely close to what he’s done there. No one could HONESTLY claim to have seen THAT LEVEL of production coming from him. And before you all get uppity about my statement, I am not saying people (including me) didn’t think he would be awesome. I thought it, many others posted it. But not ONE PERSON can be 100% honest and say they knew for a fact he could do what he’s doing now. Even the Browns had him 3rd on the DC until injury forced him in. I love Hillis and am GLAD for what he’s accomplished, but he also did nothing but fail in front of McD as an audience except ONE game. granted I am only defending McD here so I won’t go into why I think Hillis SHOULD have gotten more chances. But the fact is he didn’t show it on the few tries he got here with Josh.
B. Sheffler….really? you even dare to bring him up like that? Sheff quit on the team. Outwardly. This is no secret. He was not dropped because of his performance, he had great numbers. his “talent” level was NOT a factor in the trade. He wanted out, and we let him out.
Neither of those examples even remotely exemplify your statement in my eyes. I think you may have a good theory, and may even be on the right track. But Tebow was a good pick in my eyes, and the other trades were UNDERSTANDABLE to me.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Totally disagree with you on Hillis.
I remember in 2008 when he was running over people and making a huge impact. In fact if he doesn’t hurt his hamstring catching a pass from Jay Cutler , I think Denver would have finished 9-7 or 10-6 with Mike Shannahan at the helm and Denver would still have Shanny , Cutler , Marshall , Scheffler , Hillis.
Go back and look at Hillis production in 2008. 64 Rushes for 343 yards and 5.0 yards per carry and 5 TD’s and 24 1st downs. Then injured hamstring.
Way off on Hillis
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 10:09 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I understand your point but will
re-state that even given your statements I believe my observations are accurate.
Again I will try and address them each.
A. in 2008 he WAS having a huge impact for the few games he was in. Agreed. BUT he was not nearly as explosive as he is this year regardless. He had some bad fumbles if memory serves correctly, and his injury severely limited his playing time and by definition his game film to watch.
B. If he doesn’t get hurt because of Cutler hanging him out to dry, I ALSO agree that our team likely does much better. And that we would still have Shanny because of it. But the fact of the matter is he DID get hurt and as I already mentioned, this limits his game film to be watch by McD.
so while I agree with BOTH of your points, I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make, that his injury limited his playing time way too much for McD to get a good bead, and that when McD gave him a chance (albeit almost bedgrudgingly) Hillis was unable to perform for HCMcD when it counted.
I for one was on the verge of purchasing a Hillis Jersey, as he was at the time my fave player on the team that I didn’t already have a jersey for. Bailey was the other. I am a Hillis fanatic and clamored with the best of them when the trade was made. But after having time to look at both sides of the story I do understand why McD chose to do what he did, even if I don’t like the choice.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
to be fair
Peyton Hillis is a great player I have lways liked him but the dude is a west coast offense type of running back and his few performances in denver in 2008 showed me that . Zone Blocking helps him but the man is a monster in west coast offensive schemes like the one that The Walrus runs in Cleveland!
I wish we hadn’t traded him either but he probably wouldn’t have seen much playing time here due to the system we use in running.
Dear Santa- All I want for Christmas is a Stud NT and David Harris- Thank you!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Nov 30, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
The list could be very long
Robert Ayers instead of Clay Matthews
Alfonso Smith instead of Rey Maualuga
Robert Quinn insteatd of Shonn Greene
Demaryius Thomas instead of Dez Bryant
Obviously McDaniels had no clue that Brandon Llyod would be a ProBowl WR. He sat him all of 2009 and drafted 2 WR’s in 2010.
nobody knew he would be a probowler thats why he bounced around the league remember he has a history of great preseasons
Demaryius Thomas was the better choice
Have you watched Dez play? Another T.O./Brandon Marshall cry baby attitude in the making. Best to avoid him altogether. Could the pick have been used on another position, sure.
by FtCoNative on Nov 30, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't watch a lot of Cowboys games
But are you repeating what you’ve heard from the MSM regarding Dez? There was a stretch before Wade got fired where Dez appeared to be the only one putting forth maximum effort on every play. Not saying he’s better or worse than DT, but the only “attitude” I’ve seen from Dez was the whole ‘refusing to carry shoulder pads’ thing.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Dude.... you could do this kind of analysis on every single coach/gm in the league...
Hindsite is always 20/20… the draft is nothing but an informed gamble.
If you had this same kind of assessment you would also have to think the same thing about…
Detroit because they released Jason Hunter?
What about the Eagles who let go of Joe Mays for JJ Aarington?
What about Big Vick…?
What about SF and Chicago for dumping Brandon Lloyd?
How about Chicago for trading away Kyle Orton?
I mean seriously… you can’t just pick and choose the decisions that you want to criticize so they support your already determined beliefs.
The Fan Formerly known as HillisRanUover...
by theGreatGuessKowski on Nov 30, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
HindSight... (Sorry)
The Fan Formerly known as HillisRanUover...
by theGreatGuessKowski on Nov 30, 2010 11:43 AM MST up reply actions
the GreatGuessKowski
+10000
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
by The 3 Amigos on Nov 30, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
Sam Bowie instead of MJ
oops, wrong list. :)
Despair: It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
ha ha!
The Fan Formerly known as HillisRanUover...
by theGreatGuessKowski on Nov 30, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
Actually,
Everyone who had a clue knew Orton was going to have a big season statistically. Just look at his progression. This is an annoying post to me for multiple reasons. First of all, you’re going to be MISERABLE as a fan if you always think of “what if’s”. McDaniels whiffed on Hillis, but not on the others. You are one person on here among many who expect instant production from draft picks. Look at the Chargers a couple of years ago, who drafted a QB with the #1 overall pick despite having Drew Brees. He wound up getting hurt, let go in the offseason, and Rivers is now arguably the best QB in the game.
Second of all, McDaniels does not have a bad eye for talent. He’s had two drafts. You can always look in hindsight and say, well we should have drafted this guy in this spot. Every other team could do the same.
follow me on Twitter: @Sayre_Bedinger
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yep....that's for real
by Sayre Bedinger on Nov 30, 2010 10:09 AM MST reply actions 4 recs
Totally agree Sayre
Everyone knows hindsight is 20/20. If the same analysis was done for the other teams you would have 32 Super Bowl contenders. The judgment of a draft pick or trade should be based upon the best available information at the time of the decison, not we know happened after the fact. We all know the draft is a gamble. Regarding the Hillis trade, at the time almost everyone on MHR was stoked about the Hillis for Quinn trade – a lot of fans said they would miss Hillis but they were happy to pick up Quinn for him at the time. At the time of the trade there was no Tebow and Simms play was pitiful, and we thought Quinn would plug a significant hole.
Rivers isn't better than Brees. nice try but NOT
Sayre ,
Missing on 1 or 2 players is OK but missing on 5-8 players???? REDICULOUS
1. Peyton Hillis – not a good fit for our team = STUPID. Hillis is a hard running RB.
2. Alfonso Smith – gave up 2010 1st Round Pick = Dumb
3. Robert Ayers – had 3 Sacks as Senior. 4-3 DE who never played OLB. REACH-could have had Clay Matthews.
4. Richard Quinn – gave up 2 – 3rd Round Picks to draft Quinn in 2nd ROUND? REACH
5. Brady Quinn – traded for bad QB – Denver still owes Cleveland Picks.
6. Tim Tebow – traded 3 picks that Denver could have used to BUILD a GREAT TEAM.
7. Seth Olsen – 4th Round Pick cut
8. Jarvis Green – $20 Million – REALLY
9. Mike Nolan – why can’t he get along with another Good Defensive Cordinator??
10. Lawerence Maroney – by 2011 4th Round Pick.
Sayre you need to look at the pattern!!!!
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 10:21 AM MST reply actions 3 recs
Thank you!
So many misses in just two years illustrates McD’s lack of ability when it comes to evaluating players. Any coach/GM/front office is open to second-guessing, and it’s easy in hindsight to say what a team should’ve done. But such egregious misses in such a short amount of time leads reasonably to the conclusion that McD and Xanders are in over their heads when it comes to personnel calls. To those who keep calling for fans to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would ask: what has he done to earn it? I know from my point of view, he’s done a heck of a lot to lose it.
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Nov 30, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
Rivers....is a crybaby! Brees, not so much
1. See my point about Hillis above for in depth analysis why I think Mcd is somewhat off the hook there.
2. Phonz, I personally hated the pick as far as watching him TRY to play. I thought he was horrible, and was FUMING when he did not produce. Even into this years TC. However, his production for Detroit has been nearly par with what we expected from him, and therefore it would SEEM to me a system misplacement not a talent mis-evaluation.
3. Ayers, personally have seen things this year that make me glad we have him, but I don’t expect you to agree on this one and I don’t know enough about the position there to make an educated comment.
4. Quinn….you might be right, haven’t watched him enough either.
5. Brady Quinn, hated the guy from the get-go, but given our QB situation before KO started bombing it out, think it was a smart move as far as making sure we had QB’s who MIGHT have been able to produce. so glad KO and Tebow are better though.
6. Loved the pick, placement, and reasons. I think Tebow will eventually make us all glad we didn’t pass.
7. possibly a waste. but who really could have known prior to seeing him in TC? I’ll concede this one regardless.
8. except for the money…hasn’t he made significant improvements to our line play?
9. Again I think Nolan wanted other things, and I don’t think this had to do with personalities. I think it was a goal move, and scheme disagreements. not sure how you pin this on McD’s talent evaluation.
10. Not sure the details of the trade, why its a 4th rounder, but he did help when KnoMo was out of it whether he sucked it up or not.
so…..I see about 3 honest items that I would say I have to agree or concede. The others I believe were mistakes any coach could have and would have made. missing on 1-2 PLAYERS as was your argument, I think 3-4 constitutes acceptable. and I don’t see 5-8 misses yet.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Is Jarvis Green on the team?
or did we cut him again?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
umm....
This may be a face palm moment actually. I could have sworn he came over with Jamal williams and was still playing D-Line…but I could be sorely mistaken.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
I know he was cut in preseason.
But now I forget…did we re-sign him at some point? And after that, did we cut him again?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
I really don't know
Thanks for pointing it out though I may have confused him with another player…(no I’m not talking about jarvis Moss who IS gone and is now a Fader)
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
I think we are both
Jumbling Jarvis and LeKevin (“The Kevin”) Smith.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Wow
I’m not so miffed about who we’ve missed on, but my knee-jerk reaction is that looks like a trend of consistently ‘overpaying’ in trades.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Wait you forgot
LeKevin Smith for a draft pick
Russ Hochstein for a draft pick
Paid a long snapper 2 million per season because he was a patriot
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
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Only a fool...
would have kept journeyman WR Lloyd, traded an injured running back for Mays, and signed other teams’ ineffective players, Vickerson and Hunter. And can anyone explain why McD would draft a starting caliber CB in the fifth round?!? What a dumb move…
Cox hasn't been a good CB. He has been burned more than anyone.
Sure Joe Mays has been pretty good in 2 games and Vickerson and Hunter are decent players this doesn’t make up for alllllllll the baddddd picks and trades.
Joe Mays – average player
Vickerson – good DT but far from dominant
Hunter – had a couple good games but isn’t a great player.
Cox – has looked pretty bad so far but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that he is a rookie , BUT I wouldn’t pencil him in at Starting CB next year yet.
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
Joe Mays is only AVG?
Joe Mays – Huge in stopping the run for us so far this year, much better than my definition of average.
Vickerson – don’t know enough to comment
Hunter – don’t know enough to comment
Cox – I think Cox has shown flashes of brilliance I’ve yet to see from a rookie, at least on our team. I think Cox truly is the future of our backfield and that he deserves the title. given the benefit of the doubt, I’d say he has looked like a GREAT 5th rounder so far. Would have been ok higher, but even more happy we got him there.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
My problem with this post
Is that it relies solely on hindsight and does not account for the realistic nature of the former problem.
People look back and say “why the hell did we trade for Quinn and draft Tebow”, well the answer is very simple and it was very simple at the time of both roster moves.
Keep in mind, at the time of these transactions, Orton was in his contract year. He was at a crossroads in his career and he could have maintained his fromer level of play and he would have been an average QB. The other path was to improve his play (and dramatically one can argue) which is exactly what he did.
So at the time of the quinn trade, we needed someone to account for Ortons injuries and we needed an upgrade over Chris Simms. As we have seen this year, you must win every year because your not guarenteed your third year. So they have the backup QB that can sustain the team if Orton gets injured (which he has a history of being dinged up). Also remember, this trade was made at a time when we had no clue at all if we were going to be able to draft a QB. There are never any guarentees in the draft, and entering the draft without an insurance policy at Backup QB would have been sheer madness.
So the team has their Backup QB of the present and future as well as a QB at a career crossroads in which performance and improvement is not guarenteed.
The Broncos enter the draft with their eyes on probably a couple of QBs (i’d have to assume they liked Bradford alot as well) but only one with which they had realistic expectations of securing (Tebow). So you have your backup, which means your not drafting a late or middle round guy, especially with Brandstater on the roster. So this draft is basically Tebow or nothing at QB.
They secure the rights to Tebow, which means that they exit the draft with this on their roster.
1) A veteran QB at a career crossroads who now has a young and highly decorated first round pick nipping at his heels to push him further. Who also is in his contract year.
2) A quality Backup QB with some familiarity in a similar system (Notre Dame) who is young and has a very reasonable contract
3) A young blue chip prospect who needs a year to develop and is willing to do all the right things for the team and not pout.
You have looked at these moves as Mcdaniels inability to evaluate talent.
I believe these moves are part of a plan to accomplish a goal, which was to finalize the QB position no matter what. Mcdaniels did that and he now has a very good option in Orton. A very good backup, and a guy that can be molded to be a much better player as he learns the system. Finally an excellent ball of clay in Tebow that he can mold into a great QB, and make no mistake if he is molded properly then the sky is the limit for Tebow because his faults are very correctable and his strengths are uncoachable.
by DW76 on Nov 30, 2010 10:51 AM MST reply actions 10 recs
Thank you. My thoughts exactly
To the OP – What a stupid thread. I’m sorry to have even briefly glanced at it. That’s 5 seconds of my life I’ll never get back.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
by Jason Witte on Nov 30, 2010 11:17 AM MST up reply actions
It was dumb to trade for Quinn and then draft Tebow.
We could have kept Tom Brandsetter instead of trading for Quinn.
McDaniels continues to make Dumb moves.
Would it have been dumb if Otron got hurt and Brandstater proved to be no more competent than Simms?
Would it be dumb is Tebow turns into a great QB?
Claiming that something is dumb is the easy part. Proving your opinion with intelligent context that relies on something more than hindsight is what tends to be difficult.
Or if Tebow turns into a Bust???? Right now we know nothing.
The fact is if you have a GREAT QB and no talent around him , he will struggle = ie: Peyton Manning 2010.
Denver could have used those picks on making the whole team better not 1 – future QB who might be good or might be a BUST.
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 11:45 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the post Captain Hindsight!!
How did you obtain this superpower of 20/20 hindsight?
You can take the man out of Colorado, but you can't take Colorado out of the man.
by manbearpig5000000 on Nov 30, 2010 11:48 AM MST reply actions
So you support McDaniels for trading Peyton Hillis????
Not 1 person on here thought he got a fair shake here.
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 11:51 AM MST up reply actions
Nah, I agree with that one...
When that trade happened I was PO’ed, not for giving up Hillis, but because we gave up so much to get a terrible QB in Quinn. Don’t get me wrong, I liked Hillis when he was here and I think McD went a little crazy when he refused to let him play after a fumble on a punt return early last year. However, from my point of view, Hillis was never a guy that I would have considered untradeable. This Hillis is different than the one we had in 2008 and especially different than the one we had in 2009. He just caught on with another team that suits him better, good for him… Same thing that is happening with B. Lloyd right now… My Captain Hindsight comment was pointed directly at your draft bullet points, those are just ridiculous points to make. If every fan of every team looked at what could have been, and judged their respective coaches’ personnel decisions based on something like that, then no coach in the NFL would be considered a “good judge of talent”. How are you seriously grading McD’s drafts yet anyways?
You can take the man out of Colorado, but you can't take Colorado out of the man.
by manbearpig5000000 on Nov 30, 2010 6:11 PM MST up reply actions
Sorry Broncosfansd, but I have to call BS here.
Please go back and read the mock draft you posted just a few short months before the season..before we traded hillis and scheffler. In this mock you had us trading Hillis AND Scheffler. You had us trading Hillis for a 6th rd pick!!
I don’t want to cherry pick articles but the thing about the internet is that your posts and comments live on. This post is all about hindsight, but the reality is that many of us on MHR (myself included) never thought Hillis would have the kind of production that he has had this year.
Take a step back. I know this season sucks and I know that it’s been frustrating to watch former players do well…but man, you didn’t see this coming any more than the rest of us and this post really seems counterproductive to me.
by J_Smith on Nov 30, 2010 12:11 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/2/15/1311384/trading-elvis-dumervil-mock-draft
Sorry, link didn’t post correctly
I have done multiple Mock drafts with different scenario's. That is what a mock draft is.
I never wanted to trade Peyton Hillis but when it became apparent that Josh McDaniels wasn’t going to play him , I put him in a Mock draft.
The funny thing is if Peyton Hillis doesn’t tear his hamstring catching a football by Jay Cutler , Denver would have probably have not lost their last 3 games to finish 7-9. Peyton Hillis was averaging 5 yards per carry and was playing incredibly well. Denver finished tied with S.D. at 8-8 and Mike Shanahan was fired.
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
My take on Hillis is this – I’ve heard (and not from just one source) that Peyton isn’t exactly the smartest guy in the world and ultimately was underused by McD because he just didn’t get the offence. Remember how he was completely off the radar until he had to be called up at tailback? (also, in Cleveland he only started getting a significant number of reps because of injuries). He was also splitting time at FB with Spencer who hadn’t played the position before which also says something about the guy. I remember that Shanny said in a press conference that they switched to a man-blocking scheme when Peyton ran with the qualification that it was a better fit for the guy. It could also be interpreted as Peyton struggling with the zone-blocking system, whereas man-blocking systems flag the holes which the runner is supposed to attack. To me, it was a desperate case for Shanahan who NEEDED a runner and – in that situation – was forced to change the scheme (y’know, THAT scheme) to accommodate him.
I may be off with this, but…well. It makes sense to me. Either way, it’s a trend that Peyton is low on the depth chart until he’s forced into action.
I understand that you didn't want to trade Hillis...
I will, however, reference your earlier post where you valued Hillis as garnering a 6th round pick in a trade. It seems pretty clear that you thought the Broncos couldn’t get much draft value for Hillis when you made that mock. I wonder what you think Cleveland could get in trade for him now? I would guess that it is considerably higher than a 6th round pick. That is because we have to take into account his production this year. He wasn’t producing nearly as well when he was a Bronco.
To use hindsight to lambast McDaniels in this particular instance does not prove he cannot evaluate talent. I would say that some of his business decisions and judgements have been poor and had me scratching my head (like the jarvis green situation, the trading of a first rounder for A. Smith, and the hiring of a former New England videographer).
J_Smith
ahahahah that is a great post, sorry Broncosfansd you just got owned!
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
by The 3 Amigos on Nov 30, 2010 2:36 PM MST up reply actions
We could have had a lot of players
Look at this awesome team we could have had, in hindsight:
Nnamdi Asomugha (instead of George Foster)
Anquan Boldin or Osi Umenyiora (instead of Terry Pierce)
Jared Allen (instead of Darius Watts)
Frank Gore (instead of Karl Paymah)
Haloti Ngata and Demeco Ryans (instead of Jay Cutler)
Dwayne Bowe or Anthony Spencer (instead of Jarvis Moss)
Brian Orakpo (instead of Knowshon Moreno)
Clay Matthews (instead of Robert Ayers)
If only we could see the future, we would have the most dominate team ever!
Also, BS about what “your picks” would have been. You did literally hundreds of mock drafts, both here and on db.com, and you have projected the trading away of Hillis and Scheffler so you could have more picks to play from. Saying “your picks” would have been the ones that in hindsight have stood out is disingenous at best. It’s actually along the lines of ridiculous.
It isn't just draft picks!!!
How about other McDaniels choices.
1. $20 Million contract to Jarvis Green?? Dumb signing.
2. Trading 1st Round Pick for Alfonso Smith a 5’9" 190lbs CB
3. Trading Peyton Hillis saying he doesn’t fit system. Hillis = hard running RB. We don’t need that.
4. Using a 6’3" 225lbs Demaryius Thomas as a Kick Returner?? = Dumb
5. Robert Quinn = 2nd Rounder who plays like a 7th rounder.
6. Trade for Lawerence Maroney = Goodbye 4th Round Pick next year.
7. Not getting along with Mike Nolan. Nolan is a Excellent Defensive Cordinator. Why can’t McDaniels get along with him???? Major down grade.
8. Drafting 1 Defensive Front 7 player in 2 years!!! You have to draft Defensive players.
McDaniels name should be McStake
And what about the good choices:
1. Signing Brandon Lloyd
2. Signing Brian Dawkins
3. Signing Renaldo Hill
4. Signing Andre Goodman
5. Trading JJ Arrington for Joe Mays
6. Signing Kevin Vickerson
7. Signing Jamal Williams
8. Signing Justin Bannan
9. Signing Jason Hunter
10. Drafting core OL in Beadles and Walton
Interesting list
I could go one by one and argue the merits of each (e.g., was Dawkins really worth the money/length of contract), but a better way to look at it is this: Eight of the ten “good choices” you mention are on the defensive side of the ball. If those were really good decisions, wouldn’t we have a better defense?
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Nov 30, 2010 3:30 PM MST up reply actions
Basically
Just cause guys are on the NFL roster doesnt make them good. The Denver defense is ranked dead last and people actually think these were good moves? Doesnt compute.
Its anchorman not anchorlady. And that is a scientific FACT!
Good point EddieRoyal!!!
If they were great signing Denver would have a GREAT DEFENSE. Not the case when St Louis scores over 35 points on Denver at home.
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 8:31 PM MST up reply actions
Compare with '08 roster
Our defense isn’t good, but I think that’s a combination of a lot of things, primarily pass rush and scheme continuity. If you add Doom’s 17 sacks from last year to this defense, this defensive unit would be amazingly good. They have stopped the best RB’s in the game (Gore, Charles, Jackson), and just get beat because the opposing QB has all day to throw against the secondary. We need a pass rush, and having our top 2 pass rushers out has destroyed us.
A healthy Doom and Ayers next year, with another year in the scheme and some bright young stars will do wonders for this defense.
’08 defensive roster:
LDE Ebenezer Ekuban
LDE John Engelberger
LDT Dewayne Robertson
RDT Marcus Thomas
RDE Elvis Dumervil
LLB Jamie Winbor
LLB Boss Bailey
MLB Nate Webster
RLB D.J. Williams
RLB Wesley Woodyard
LCB Champ Bailey
LCB Josh Bell
RCB Dre’ Bly
SS Marquand Manuel
FS Marlon McCree
Can you honestly tell me we don’t have better players in place today than we did when McD came in? Honestly?
The big question
Did you all see Mt. Cody’s gut!?!?!? Holy crap!!!!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Broncosfansd
I respect your opinion and can understand you are upset, but this is pointless, you might as well look back to the lottery numbers and keep telling your self you should have played those numbers and what if. Move on, it will make things more enjoyable. Yes McD has messed up but to use the draft is a joke, %50 success rate for Draft picks is what I alway hear fomr experts and draft guys, and every coach and team can go back in the last 2 drafts and say who they could have had, but remember sometimes it is a perfect system for a player or scenario that makes them so good. Look at TD as the perfect example or Tom Brady. Let it go.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
No offense Broncosfansd, I enjoy reading your posts, but I just puked a little after reading this
We could have also drafted:
2(43): Sergio Kindle (oops), Jimmy Clausen (doh!), Vladimir Ducasse (bummer)
3(70): Brandon LaFell (meh), Donald Butler (ouch), Daniel Te’o-Nesheim (who?)
4(114): Al Woods (wave goodbye), Akwasi Owusu-Ansah (huh?), Phillip Dillard (w/e)
"It's a little bit of us against the world. It will be wonderful when I prove him right."
www.worthingtonjohn.com
You are never going to achieve happiness by living in the past
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
You will relive your past unless you learn from your past
by Broncosfansd on Nov 30, 2010 8:32 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly
So is that why you continue with these inane wish lists and would coulda shoulda posts. The horse is dead. Quit kicking it.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
by KaptainKirk on Nov 30, 2010 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
And the adage goes
Those that don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Big difference.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
by KaptainKirk on Nov 30, 2010 10:14 PM MST up reply actions
LOL
I say go back a step and look at what we missed out on for reaching for Alphonso Smith
Earl Thomas –
Mike Iupati
Markice Pouncy
All were available at where Seattle picked, how nice would our draft looked had we had that pick.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
You can look at a whole lot of teams picks and find someone drafted after them that has been more successful.
You know this boogie is for real.
True
But how is it possible that the conventional wisdom on this site would’ve led to better choices than those produced by McX the past two years? I know heading into the draft I would’ve much preferred Dez, Iupati, Pouncy to our current crop of rookies.
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Nov 30, 2010 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
Orton
I’m tired of seeing the Orton stats….they mean absolutely nothing. He might throw for 30 TDs and 5000 yards, but he’s still only going to win 3 games this season. He has proven that he can’t get it done under pressure.
Orton is not a franchise qb, so please stop pretending that his stats are reflective of his true ability. Half his yardage comes in garbage time when the defenses are playing prevent and backing off the line. He is Scott Mitchell.
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