Diagnosing the Problem: Time to Abort the Failed 3-4 Experiment

Operates much like McD operated…McD said, “adjustments are overrated” and preparation was key. During the week, the gameplan consisted of heavy dosage of Moreno, but when KnoMo goes down, and Ball struggles, no adjustments are made in the gameplan and playcalling. Kind of makes you wonder if Tebow limps off for a series if they will run 3rd and 9 QB draws up the gut with Orton, lol. On the bright side, we have a QB with more passion, desire, and sheer will than all of our previous QBs combined(excluding the Mag 7 of course!) Let’s combine that with solid coaching and a few studs on the D side of the ball and Invesco may very well turn into a house of horrors for opposing teams.

In reality, our defense is such a mess, we’re going to need infusions of talent in the backfield, linebacking corps, and on the line no matter what defense we run. The key is a good, experience coordinator. 3-4 or 4-3 we need a steady plan and, more importantly, one that will last for several seasons.

One thing I will say, is that I think Jamal Williams is a failed experiment and was disappointed by some plays in which he, a veteran leader, was taking plays off. I’d actually prefer Bannan/Rookie as a starting tackle duo in the 4-3 than Williams/Rookie.

And it’s because I don’t know if it is better to have a 4/3or a 3/4. I’d like to know, however, so maybe in some of your future articles you could fill in some of the differences? I’d really love to understand this point in the defensive scheme. I know that many of the most sucessful teams employ a 4/3 DLine but I still don’t quite get why it’s better. Of course, I do understand that our DLine is horrible, but all I need to understand about that is the crappy score. If they score 24 or more against us we suck on defense. So I want to know the why. Thanks…

No. Leave the 3-4 alone, but just let someone who knows how to utilize it, run it. Do you really want Dumervil who just signed that massive contract to go to a DE position where he did not do so well? Offense is fine. Defense needs a complete overhaul. Champ wants out, let him have his way. DJ Willliams is well, DJ Williams. B.Dawk is hurt every other week like B.Dawk. We need new bodies on defense. We’re a mess.

2010: 29.6
2009: 20.3
2008: 28.0
2007: 25.6

2006: 19.1
2005: 16.1
2004: 19.0
2003: 18.8
2002: 21.5

McDaniels did the same thing Shanahan has done. Bring in mediocre defensive players and expect different results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting better results. Gut the defense (minus Doom) and make a true 3-4. You got the best OLB 3-4 in football, right? Honorable mention goes to Clay Matthews.

We will begin our third HC staff and 4th DC…its a perfect time to go back to something less of a disaster.

Is the current roster going to take us places? The secondary is antique and few of the front lineman are winning caliber. With the exception of Big Vick and Justin Bannan ( I’m not entirely sold on Marcus Thomas) the defense is to quote Mark Schlereth “garbage.” Mario Haggan, Joe Mays, Jamaal Williams, do you want these players on our defensive side of the ball going into 2011? Let’s be honest, the defense needs a complete overhaul.

And I’m excited about the young DB’s and safties we have (Perrish Cox excluded.) My concern is our LB’s and DL’s. We’re pretty thin.

I mean no disrespect to you, Tim. I love your reports and I think you do an excellent job. I’m just not sold on switching alignments because the current one isnt working. Shanahan was awarded Dan Reeves defense and won a few Super Bowls with it. His failed attempts at building a defense lost his job. Should we jump the gun and not go with the current scheme because “it’s not working?”

We need a DC who can game plan with the 3-4.

Being a Jeremiah Trotter type player who provides a heart and soul for a D…yes, he is a bit raw but the guy had made huge strides before going down. Mays is definitely a guy who can provide a consistent spark for a defense and his violent tackling can force turnovers…something we all know we need more of.

we just need to bring in a good defensive minded HC or a DC that knows how to run a 3-4 with success…leave the offense alone…GO Tebow and Go broncos

We’re throwing these young guys in the secondary into a crap storm. We cant stop the run so now these young guys who should be focusing on coverage have to come up and try to stop the run. It’s not fair to say the rookies or 2nd year players arent cutting the mustard because the guys up front are not getting it done.

Of Mays being a Al Wilson type role player. But, is he a Al Wilson type player? Al Wilson rarely missed a tackle. Mays plays like John Lynch. Lay the lumber in lue of missing the tackle.

Could he coach Tebow? Tebow is clearly our saviour.

What coach wouldnt? Other than McDaniels, lol. Would our record be better than 3-11 if Tebow started toward the last stretch? I would like to think it would.

I like the guy but he’s not a starting 4-3 LB. I look at our starting lineup and the one you’ve projected and they both look equally bad. We have only two starters who are better fits for the 4-3 and thats DJ and Ayers. Dooms is not an every down 4-3 end.

We don’t need to switch schemes again, we finally need to draft a DL. We’ve been filling it with stopgaps but like any position that only works for a short time. If we switched i’d support it but the results would probably be the same, crappy D. Majority of the players would have to learn an entirely new scheme, new positions, and we’ll need even more creative blitz packages, etc. Don’t forget most teams have gone to the 3-4 because its much easier to be creative in blitzing in this modern day passer friendly NFL. Do you think the players we have can rush the passer better in a 4-3.

You talk about our past success in a 4-3 but don’t forget the famous Orange Crush defense was a 3-4 defense and that the Broncos are one of the first teams to successfully use the 3-4.

We have some pieces in place to run the 3-4 instead of starting over. How about Brian Billick as a DC? The man knows defense.

i like the 4-3. it’s not as particular with personnel and switching back to 4-3 would get us out of the constant dogfight for those rare noseguards and 3-4 DEs. 3-4 is popular and it’s in it’s salad years but that doesn’t mean it’s a better defense. it mostly means that more coaches have been weaned on the 3-4 in the last decade or so.

great article, by the way. even if people don’t agree with your take it’s a nice break from mock drafts and tebow praise/derision. rec’d.

Seriously, its gross. Do you honestly think Woodyard could start? Do you think Mays would play, especially considering he was so bad in Philly’s 4-3 they traded him for JJ Arrington? Dont get me started on Haggan, he’d have no shot of playing LB! Chalk up needing 2 starters there.

DT’s, Jamal wont play a 4-3. Too old and slow to do anything but take on blocks. Pretty much best case scenario for said position is to draft a stud and hope he can cover for whatever excuse for a DT will be playing next to him. There’s another 2 we gotta draft/sign

Its nice to say Doom will start at DE, but c’mon he’s 250 soaking wet and wouldn’t be able to do anything beyond rushing as a specialist, and therefore not making him worth his contract. Hunter may be a good 2 down guy, but he doesnt inspire that much hope for me. Ayers could thrive here, but we’d need another DE to pick up Doom’s slack.

Thats 5 positions we need new guys to start in the front 7 alone. I realize that number for sticking with the 3-4 isnt much better but you cannot seriously tell me we should be making a scheme change that will need 5 new starters in the front 7!

I would like to point out though that if we bring in a coach accustomed to the 4-3, I wouldnt be opposed to that, as its best for an HC to go with what he is most comfortable with.

Lemme put it this way: No matter what scheme we’re in, we need a lot of new players, so either way would be fine with me AS LONG AS WE STICK WITH IT. You say we’ve been running it since 07 but we havent been committed to it since last year. Shanny went back and forth on it so it sucked. McD refused to draft players for it so it continued to suck. Whatever D we chose, our team has to be committed to it, or it will fail not matter if its 4-3 or 3-4

I honestly doubt this would happen but if we brought in Haynesworth would it make going back to a 4-3 worth while? I question Haynesworth attitude, but, I did the same thing with Julius Peppers and he’s having a decent season in Chi-town.

You’re right, I’ll settle for a .500 season at this point.

He adjusted his scheme according to his players and he would do the same for our D

I am not opposed to wholesale change on defense. This defense is terrible. Can they give up any more big plays than they already have? I am not sold on anybody except Dumervil on the front 7. Jamal Williams? Come on, he’s washed up. Bannan and Vickerson seem to be doing okay but why are they giving up so much yards of rushing plays? They are a part of this defense too.

I like what your saying about the linebackers (a huge problem spot in my mind for a 4-3) and the secondary (though who knows if Parrish Cox will be with the team, or any team, next year). I just think the defensive line has not been addressed properly. The Jarvis Moss draft along with Marcus Thomas and Tim Crowder plus the recent free agent signings have done little to nothing.

Its not the scheme – 4-3 failed and 3-4 failed.
Its not the coaches – 2 HCs and more more DCs than Al Davis has brain cells
Its not the players – Of the current starting defense how many were responsible for the disasters since 2006?

If its none of the above, then what is it? I don’t know and I sure am glad I’m not the one that’s going to have to sort it out.

Also, the point I’ll make in relation to the post is Bannan – he’s been the only DL that has looked half decent, I’d like to see him start again next year. As for the rest, Champ and DJ included, I can make a case for them all to stay and a case for them all to be cut. Look at the difference that Suh and McCoy have made to their respective teams, pick someone like that or one of the top CBs and the Broncos will be much improved.

P.S. I love any blog post that uses the phrase : “to deny it is to deny the truth” best way to start an argument ;)

I feel the failure lies in the following stats

2006 – Larry Coyer
2007 – Jim Bates
2008 – Bob Slowik
2009 – Mike Nolan
2010 – Wink Martindale
2011 – ????

How can any defense develop when there is a consistent change in coaching staff. A new coach/GM may well want a new defense coordinator potentially making it 6 DCs in the same number of years. Even if they had run a 4-3 throughout this period there are still different approaches to this scheme and would the Broncos really be in any better situation. Even if they were I would very much doubt they would have been a league leading defense.
Would the Steelers have the defense they have if LeBeau had left and there had been 5 defensive coordinators in successive years?

They are good coaches but as a group they’re not getting it done. This is one area we need a clean start.

I do not think it’s accurate to put the blame for the defense on the 3-4. The blame lies in game plans and execution. A good coaching staff uses the scheme that best fits the team. We did a decent job of that last year, not so good this year. I hope we bring in a staff that’s not married to one system but well versed in all and can use the one that best fits the team.

Good restraint in not mentioning Tebow until the last sentance of a defense post.

No 4-3 for me.

We’d have an undersized line (except for Jamal) if we switch as you suggest. Granted, we’d need to draft more players under either scheme, but are your serious about both Doom and Ayers getting pressure on the QB from a down position near the O-Tackle?

The Defense has changed coordinators every year since the price of gas was below a dollar a gallon. Why make things worse by changing coordinators and the entire scheme this year as well? What’s the advantage? None that I could ferret out for certain, just a lot of hope for better things to come.

The transition to the 3-4 was/is rough going. Now you’re asking for a couple more years of rough transitioning in the other direction? A theme on these boards is how important stability is in the NFL. Your post is flying in the face of that. More chaos for the good of the team is what I decipher from your line of argument. Good luck with that, Broncos, if you head in the 4-3 direction.

How much more disastrous could our current disaster get? I’m thinking not much.

Now that McDaniels is gone I am not comfortable implying that everything he felt or believed was nonsense; he clearly has coaching acumen but it is abundantly clear that he was simply in over his head and needs more experience before he is ready to take on the demands of a head coaching position.

That said, I think the idea of switching back to a 4-3 is intriguing. There are key personnel differences between each setup and a distinct difference in coaching philosophy and we simply don’t have either in place here. This is really going to boil down to the man hired to coach this team in 2011 but it definitely is worth some thought. Thanks for shedding some light on this.

but until you get a DC who knows what the hell he is doing, it won’t work. Nolan showed last year that he was on the right track until his play calling got reigned in.

I’m okay with switching as long as we have a DC who is dedicated to it. I just think our best option now is bring in Wade Phillips to coach the 3-4 properly and get aggressive.

The only experiment that’s failed is trying to rebuild the defense by drafting offensive players.

The problem is that we don’t have the personnel to run it correctly. The 3-4 all starts with having a dominating DT at nose guard that can stop up the inside running lanes. This frees up the linebackers so that they can blitz or drop back into coverage without worrying about having to stop the inside run game. Let’s face it, we don’t have good enough players defensively, and we definitely don’t have the right guys to utilize the 3-4 efficiently. We just need to bring in better personnel. And Dumervil is the best Jack OLB in the NFL, it would only make sense it keep him there.