Denver Broncos Talentless? I Think Not.
There have been a lot of arguments, of late, about how the Denver Broncos are pretty much bereft of talent. Some want to point their fingers at Mike Shanahan and his decisions with trades, free agency and the draft. Others would like to place responsibility on Josh McDaniels' decisions in those same areas. Reality is probably closer to the idea that both coaches secured some gems for the team while missing on other choices.
Some fans want to point to the current 3-11 record as evidence that the team is without talent. There certainly is some justification for that. Some fans go back to 2008 and point to 33-19 and 52-21 losses to Kansas City and San Diego, along with two three-game losing streaks as evidence. Others will lift up the 30-7 and 44-24 losses to Baltimore and Kansas City along with two four-game losing streaks in 2009. Some fans want to use the 59-14 spanking handed out by the Oakland Raiders combined with a four-game losing streak and the current five-game losing streak as further evidence that the current Broncos team lacks talented players. The list goes on and on.
However, I would like to suggest that while the team has significant needs and has been playing abysmally poor. There is some talent that can be used as a foundation to build on. Consider this: Take a look at our eleven losses: in two of them (NYJ and SF) the Broncos held the lead going into the fourth quarter, in one (JAX) they were tied, and in four (IND, BAL, KC#2, OAK#2) the Broncos trailed by ten points or less. Seven out of eleven losses were within reach as Denver entered the final quarter of each of those games.
After the jump, we'll take a look at some of the changes the Broncos have gone through since the end of the 2008 season, and why I believe we may not be quite as talentless as some would have us believe.
| 2008-16 | 2009-1 | 2009-16 | 2010-1 | 2010-14 | |
| Offense | |||||
| QB | Cutler | Orton | Orton | Orton | Tebow |
| RB | Bell | Buckhalter | Buckhalter | Moreno | Moreno |
| WR | Marshall | Hillis (FB) | Stokley (WR) | Larsen (FB) | Larsen |
| WR | Royal | Royal | Lloyd (WR) | Lloyd | Royal |
| TE | Graham | Gaffney (WR) | Willis (WR) | Gaffney | Graham (TE) |
| TE | Scheffler | Graham | Gaffney (WR) | Graham (TE) | Quinn (TE) |
| LT | Clady | Clady | Clady | Clady | Clady |
| LG | Hamilton | Hamilton | Hamilton | Daniels | Beadles |
| C | Wiegmann | Wiegmann | Wiegmann | Walton | Walton |
| RG | Kuper | Hochstein | Kuper | Kuper | Kuper |
| RT | Harris | Harris | Polumbus | Beadles | Harris |
| Defense | |||||
| LE | Ekuban | McBean (DE) | McBean | McBean | Vickerson |
| LT | Robertson | Fields (NT) | Fields | Williams | Williams |
| RT | Thomas | Peterson (DE) | Peterson | Bannan | Bannan |
| RE | Dumervil | Haggan (OLB) | Haggan | Hunter | Hunter |
| WLB | Williams | Williams (ILB) | Davis | Williams | WIlliams |
| MLB | Webster | Davis (ILB) | Williams | Haggan | Haggan |
| SLB | Winborn | Dumervil (OLB) | Dumervil | Ayers | Ayers |
| LCB | Bailey | Bailey | Bailey | Bailey | Bailey |
| RCB | Bly | Goodman | Goodman | Goodman | Goodman |
| SS | Fox | Hill | Hill | Hill | Hill |
| FS | Barrett | Dawkins | Dawkins | Dawkins | McBath |
One of the things I find interesting in looking at these changing lineups, is the often repeated mantra that Denver has not addressed the defense. It is a common perception that McDaniels came in and "blew up" the offense while neglecting the defense. When we compare the starting lineup in the last game of 2008 to the first game of 2009, there are five new starters on offense -- one of whom (Hillis) was on the team in 2008 -- while there were eight new starters on defense -- only two of whom (Peterson and Haggan) had been on the team in 2008. By the end of 2009, however, the defense had remained the same while there were significant shifts in the offensive starters. 2010 saw more shifts in the starting lineup, due in no little measure to injuries.
I'm also fairly certain that experience has played a role in how the Broncos have fared this year, especially as younger players have been asked to step up and fill in for injured veterans. Now not knowing how the Broncos' experience stacked up against other teams, I took a look at the two top teams (by record) in each conference and the two bottom teams (by record) in each conference. When looking at the relative NFL experience of our fifty-three man roster plus those players listed on the practice squad and the injured reserve list, we find:
| Denver (3-11) | New England (12-2) | Atlanta (12-2) | Cincinnati (3-11) | Carolina (2-12) | |
| Experience | |||||
| Rookie | 14 | 15 | 0 | 18 | 15 |
| 1 | 5 | 6 | 26 | 3 | 1 |
| 2 | 11 | 14 | 6 | 13 | 19 |
| 3 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 9 | 12 |
| 4 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 8 | 11 |
| 5 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 8 |
| 6 | 2 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 0 |
| 7 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 5 | 3 |
| 8 | 2 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 2 |
| 9 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| 10 or more | 7 | 13 | 7 | 8 | 3 |
When we look at the players in terms of the percentage of the roster based on experience we find:
| Rookies | 2 or less | 3 or less | 5 or less | |
| Denver | 22% | 47% | 58% | 73% |
| New England | 19% | 44% | 53% | 66% |
| Atlanta | 0% | 51% | 62% | 73% |
| Cincinnati | 23% | 44% | 55% | 73% |
| Carolina | 20% | 47% | 64% | 89% |
This intrigued me. On the one hand, Denver's breakdown is very similar to Cincinnati (3-11) and Carolina (2-12) -- 20-23% rookie players, 44-47% with two or less years in the NFL. On the other hand, there are some parallels with New England (12-2) and Atlanta (12-2) -- 53-58% of the players with three years or less experience (Denver and New England) and 73% with five or fewer years (Denver and Atlanta). This suggests that Denver is very typical in terms roster makeup. So is it a case of bad coaching, injuries or simply a case of our individuals not being very good? I'm guessing that the truth is most likely a combination of varying degrees of all three.
This leaves us with the question of whether or not there are any bright spots to look forward to in the rest of the season and into 2011? In my humble opinion there are. Let's take a look at some of them.
Quarterbacks
There are three possibilities here. Tim Tebow has come on strong in what little playing time he has been allowed. He has completed 52.9% of his passes for 141 yards, an 8.4 yard/attempt average and two touchdowns versus no interceptions. He has been sacked twice. His ability to use his legs to extend the play suggests that he could conceivably be the quarterback we've been waiting for.
Kyle Orton still remains a viable option -- despite his many shortcomings. His completion percentage of 58.8%, 3653 yards, twenty touchdowns versus nine interceptions are not something to be treated lightly. At the very least, he would make an effective backup if Tebow were to go down to injury.
The unknown in the equation is Brady Quinn. While the numbers from his time in Cleveland can only be called underwhelming, we have not had the opportunity to see what he can do in regular season game conditions. It also appears to me that a great deal of the antipathy that has been directed towards Quinn is derived as much from the fact that Quinn came to the Broncos through the trading of fan favorite Peyton Hillis as much as it does from Quinn's on-field performance.
Running Backs
There is a solid core here that can be built upon. Despite an abysmal start to the season, the rushing game has begun to emerge somewhat. Moreno, after leading all rookie running backs in yards in 2009, is currently ranked 24th in rushing yards -- despite missing three games, and most of the second Oakland game. In the five games in which he played, prior to the bye, Moreno had 252 yards. In the five games immediately after the bye, he rushed for 462 yards. The question with Moreno is whether or not he can remain healthy.
Spencer Larsen has shown flashes of promise in the role of fullback. He has carried the ball three times, and gotten a first down on each of them. He has also recorded first downs on three of his five catches. Another player who has likewise shown flashes of promise is Lance Ball. In the five games where he was allowed to carry the ball he rushed for 99 yards and logged three first downs.
One runner I would be interested in seeing return is LenDale White. He was a strong power runner at USC and served as a good change of pace to the speedy Reggie Bush. It would be interesting to see what he could do for Denver. If he could serve as the "punch them in the mouth" runner that we've lacked, the combination of Moreno, Ball and White could be an effective one.
Wide Receivers
In my humble opinion, this is the most solid group on the offensive side of the ball. We have seen Brandon Lloyd put to rest the perception of himself as a receiver who will duck away from a pass in order to avoid contact -- that was perhaps the most repeated video clip when he was first brought to Denver. Lloyd's 1264 yards, ten touchdowns, twenty pass plays of twenty or more yards and his fifty-nine first downs have made him a legitimate #1 wide receiver.
Eddie Royal has rebounded from his sophomore slump to put up some good numbers in 2010 -- 605 yards, three touchdowns, eight plays of twenty or more yards and thirty-one first downs. Jabbar Gaffney has proven himself to be dependable and productive logging 773 yards, two touchdowns, nine plays of twenty or more yards and thirty-seven first downs. Demaryius Thomas has shown some promise amassing 283 yards, two touchdowns, five plays of twenty or more yards and fifteen first downs, all coming through limited playing time. This issue with Thomas will be whether or not he can remain healthy. Eric Decker and Matthew Willis were both considered to have potential, but neither has had much of an opportunity to show what they can do.
Tight Ends
This is a unit that raises a great number of question. Part of the issue, in my humble opinion, comes from the fact that Denver fans have become accustomed to tight ends in the mold of Shannon Sharpe and Tony Scheffler, who were typically asked to be receivers first and blockers second. Josh McDaniels tried to install an offense in which the tight end was asked to be a blocker first and a receiver second. Daniel Graham seems to be showing his age by dropping passes that in previous years he would have caught. The remainder of the unit -- Daniel Coats, Richard Quinn, John Nalbone and Dan Gronkowski -- have not shown much that would provide a large dose of hope.
Offensive Line
This is another unit with question marks. In 2009, the offensive line protected Orton well enough to help the team to rank thirteenth in passing yards, sixteenth in passing touchdowns, and fifteenth in sacks given up. The line helped the running backs rank eighteenth in rushing yards and twenty-second in rushing touchdowns. In 2010, the line has helped Orton and Tebow rank seventh in passing yards, fifteenth in passing touchdowns and ninth in sacks given up. The rushing attack has fallen to twenty-ninth in rushing yards but risen to sixteenth in rushing touchdowns. So what changed?
Some people believe that problem lie in the attempt to shift away from a run-blocking scheme that predominantly based on a zone blocking scheme. Others have pointed to the presence of two rookies on the offensive line in 2010. I am still of the opinion that 2009 suffered from the attempt to implement a new offense and 2010 was devastated by offseason injuries to Moreno, Buckhalter, White, and Clady, along with a very slow recovery from injuries on the part of Harris and Kuper. It is important to remember that in 2010, the offensive line did not start the same five players at the same positions until almost halfway through the season. Add in the struggles that rookie offensive linemen will experience and we can see that we had a recipe for disaster.
Having said all of that, however, the offensive line has some potential, especially among the five players who have become the acknowledged starters: Clady, Beadles, Walton, Kuper, Harris. This is a good mix of age and experience. As mentioned above, now that we have seen this unit play together over a longer period of time, we have begun to see the running game improve. Hopefully, the addition of a more mobile quarterback -- read Tim Tebow here -- will help the offensive line when it comes to pass protection as well.
Defensive Line
This unit has me worried. The average experience of the defensive line is five years. This is good in that it provides experience. This is bad in that this unit is showing its age in a lot of way. It is my understanding that in a 3-4 defense, the primary objective of the defensive line is to tie up blockers, fill up the running lanes and allow the linebackers to penetrate for sacks and tackles. It seems as though the defensive line has not been able to do this with any consistency. I have not seen anyone that stands out as playing a solid game with any consistency in this group -- if I'm wrong, please correct me, I would love to have some hope here.
That being said, I personally believe the players with the most promise are Justin Bannan (27 tackles, 1 sack, 2 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble), Kevin Vickerson (38 tackles, 1 sack, 2 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble), and Marcus Thomas (33 tackles, 1 sack, 1 pass defensed).
Linebackers
This has been a unit which has both shone, and been maligned for their failures. Like the defensive line, the linebacking corps has seemed to play with tremendous inconsistency. Many people will want to point to the loss of Elvis Dumervil as being the key to this unit's struggles. While there may be a kernel of truth to this, the reality is that -- as a whole -- this unit has not stepped up their game in the absence of 2009's sack leader. Still, there are a few bright spots for the future.
I think it goes without saying that everyone is looking forward to Dumervil's return in 2011. Another player I am anxious to see return from IR is Joe Mays who recorded thirty of his forty tackles in the four games immediately following the bye. D. J. Williams is our leading tackler with 104 tackles. He causes some concerns by releasing receivers into the secondary when there isn't anyone back there to pick up the receiver. Other than that, he appears to be a solid player. Robert Ayers, Mario Haggan and Jason Hunter should also benefit from the return of Dumervil and raise their own numbers. Beyond that group, the linebacking corps is rather thin.
Cornerbacks
This is unit which concerns me the most. The Broncos have long time veterans (Bailey 12 years, Goodman 9 years and Jones 7 years) and very young players (Thompson, Vaughn and Cox are rookies and Polk -- practice squad -- is a one year player). The situation is further exacerbated by the arrest of Cox -- which may just cost the Broncos their most promising rookie cornerback. Among the veterans, Bailey has begun to look like he wants to play somewhere else, Goodman seems to have lost a step and Jones has completely underwhelmed in pass coverage. Thompson and Vaughn have shown flashes of promise but have not seen enough playing time to truly determine their potential.
Safeties
This continues the problem of aging veterans versus relatively proven younger players. Dawkins and Hill have both been in the league ten or more years and we have to question how much they have left in the tank. Bruton and McBath have shown some promise but are both only second year players. Kyle McCarthy (4th year but on IR) hasn't seen the field enough to feel good about.
Specialists
With the possible exception of the ill-will generated by the release of Mike Leach and the subsequent arrival of Lonie Paxton, the Broncos' three special teams players are a bright spot. Paxton has proven to be reliable, with the exception of two snaps that I can think of. Prater is solid and dependable as the place kicker (10 for 10 under 40 yards in 2010, 4 for 5 from 40-49 yards and 2 for 3 from 50 or more yards). Britton Colquitt has come on strong in his first season with Denver -- a 44.2 yard average (13th in the NFL), fifteen punts landing inside the twenty, six touchbacks (10th in the league), and sixteen fair catches (11th in the NFL).
Final Thoughts
So where does this leave us as we look towards the future? Our wide receiver corps and our specialists would appear to be solid. Our quarterbacks and linebackers appear to be promising, but with little depth in the case of the linebackers. Our running backs and offensive line appear to be improving. Our tight end corps has some concerns, due largely to the question of whether the team is going to pursue a block first/receive second approach or a receive first/block second one. The defensive line also has some concerns, particularly in the question of depth. Our secondary has some serious issues, given the disparity between the aging starters and the inexperienced backups.
Is our team as devoid of talent as some would have us believe? I think not. Are we elite, or even above average? At this point in time, nowhere close to either. The Broncos have a lot of work to do and a large number of holes to fill. The good news is that they have some good players to serve as the foundation for that rebuilding process.
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Comments
The key to being competitive again
Is a defense that can get off the feild when it needs to, with a offense that can stay on the field. We have neither at the moment. Brian you done a good job of pointing out why that is. Thanks.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
I totally agree with you
There have been too many times on both sides of the ball where 1st & 2nd down went the way you’d want them to only to have 3rd down be a fail.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
I shouldn't have to cringe...
When the offense has a 3rd and 1, or when the defense has a 3rd and 10…
It just makes the failure all the more demoralizing.
Nice post
I think that with the correct coaching and play calling you could put the same 53 man roster out tmrw and go 11-3. I believe that play calling is the number 1 need, coaching/teaching is #2 and drafting/ picking up FA players that can be coached up is #3.
We should really take the next 2 games to evaluate the roster. Play Brady Quinn as well as TT, Vaughn, Thompson, Quinn (TE), Olsen (C/G), Vaniduke (LB), Robinson (LB), etc. Lets really see what we have at all the positions. There is a way to do it slowly without a erupt injection of all back-ups. Insert Decker in at the X WR for a series…etc.
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
This team has talent
what they don’t have is depth to get through injuries and dominant DL men to provide a consistent pass rush.
If we abandon the 3-4, we relegate Doom to a third down player. Our secondary, both young and old has the talent to do the job if there is consistent pressure from the front 7.
We need two linemen and a stud middle backer to make this defense work.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
I really hope this idea of going back to the 4-3 is shot down soon
It would not be a requirement of mine that the new coach run a 3-4 but until we hire a coach that can actually run a competent and solid 4-3 defense, there should be little talk about it. Scheme change is not what this team needs.
And now for something completely different
by AlbertaBronc on Dec 21, 2010 9:03 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed
Scheme change is not what this team needs.
Second agreement:
hire a coach that can actually run a competent and solid 4-3 defense
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
I agree that we need a better pass rush
but it’s been my understanding that in a 3-4, the primary role of the DL is to control the run gaps and to tie up blockers in order to allow one or more LBs to provide the pressure on the QB. From what I’ve seen this year, our DL has difficulty consistently closing the running lanes and tying up more than a single blocker, which means there’s blockers left to pick up the LBs.
The whole front 7 needs some retooling. I’m not sure that switching to a 3-4 at this point would be the most advantageous approach.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
Correct generally
Of primary importance is the NT which must draw a double team and still gain enough penetration to disrupt the middle and move the play to other gaps. These are very hard to find, and we do not have one let alone a backup. Absent the brute NT we cannot run the 3-4 effectively. Our personel dictates we run the 4-3. We have a nice high pick with dominating 4-3 tackles available – but no 3-4 NTs. I am not convinced that Doom would be ineffective in the 4-3 or that he should be relgated to third downs only. If the new regime sees him as a third down player then use him in that role or deal him away. Sacks are nice, but this defense has not been able to bring consistent pressure on the opposing QB since week 7, 2009 – with or without Doom.
I still believe this team has more talent then the 08 team
Defensively i still say we have a better D then 08 (even if we do give up 2 more points a game). That 08 D was so soft. I hated watching our corners play 10 yards off the receivers every game. I would literally sit in front of the TV and predict every single play offenses would run against us. This year our defense can at least get stops. maybe not consistently but they can still do it.
Offensively we have about the same talent but the 08 team was more proven, had more experience and was MUCH better coached and schemed.
And now for something completely different
I don't know which D you're watching...
But they look every bit as putrid as the ‘08 version to me. Yeah, they get the occasional stop, but any progress there is more than offset by the number of absolutely backbreaking big plays (many of which have no business going as big as they do – see Marcel Reese’s TD reception last weekend as Exhibit A) they give up.
"You cocky cock! You'll pay for your crimes against humanity!"
"He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup."
That's been the killer all year long
Stop/short gain, stop/short gain, massive yardage gain.
Painful to watch. A lot of it seems to be confusion on the part of the defensive players as to who is supposed to cover whom and what job each player has. This could well be a coaching issue/preparation issue. As much as it pains me to say this, perhaps Martindale and his assistants are not the answer.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
IMHO it is also a byproduct of going large at the LBs
you have 270 lb LBs, you are going to stack, stack, and then get left in the dust. ballcarrier gets into open space and this defense is toast. you can go extra large if you have freakishly athletic personnel (like pitt), but on this team, DJW is usain bolt next to ayers/haggan/hunter and even dumervil. it’s a game of tradeoffs, and mcd overloaded on size by having even his ILB be a quasi DE. personally, what i like about the 43 is that you tend to have faster LBs on the outside. yeah, you need to invest in a good DL, but you can just have non-superstar, fast, solid fundamentals OLBs like ian gold, mobley, the young WILL DJW, etc.
by ssc on Dec 21, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
You may well be right.
The defensive side of the ball is something that I’ve only started studying in depth over the last 2 years or so. So there are a lot of gaps in my knowledge base and I’m relying heavily on “the eye test.”
I appreciate all observations, so that I can learn more.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed.
The advantage/thing that I like about the 43 D is that it’s much better at creating pressure without having to blitz, and when it does, it can be just as disruptive as Pitt’s or Baltimores if done correctly [Spagnuolo, Gregg Williams, Perry Fewell, etc do this].
Doom is a better pass rusher with his hand in the ground. He’s not a good run defender, but with Ayers on the other side and a good OLB I think that could mask his deficiency if we were to move back to a 40 front.
[oh, and Pittsburgh doesn’t go freakish big LB’s anymore. Lawrence Timmons is only 235, and I wanna say most of their guys are around 250, except Harrison…]
Buffs: 5-7.
Ducks: 12-0!
Hawks: 7-5 >:(
one area that we can critique
I think you’ve raised an extremely important issue, ssc.
I don’t know if it’s speed alone — and I rather suspect the ‘X and 0s’ guys would argue it’s execution and minding assignments — so scheme familiarity/experience and talent are the other parts of the problem. Still, it’s been very hard as a fan during the last two years to adjust to positional specifications that allowed for slower players, after having emphasized team speed for so long.
My preference is to stay in the 3-4 rather than switch back again, but you make some good points. The entire picture is probably muddied by various tradeoffs between the two schemes so it’s hard to look at the situation solely through the lens of speed. And even when looking at speed alone it’s important to distinguish between quickness & reaction time versus track speed. I’d be quite happy with a slowish quick reacting ILB proficient in shedding. The caveat is that the run defense can be fine but the pass defense still relies on that track speed. And I’m definitively not dismissing the utility of speed in the run game either, just saying that our ‘speed deficit’ requires qualification when you consider the run-stopping ability of a player such as Mays.
Backing away McDaniels positional specifications may be in order now (and it will happen anyways since he’s not here). Change for change’s sake is not the point though. Speed at LB and DL would clearly help. And that speed is nearly always accompanied by talent, too.
Here’s a dream draft:
1) – Fairley, Nick (DE34)
1b) – Ayers, Akeem (ILB/OLB34)
1c) – Houston, Justin (OLB34)
Note that it isn’t a tremendous infusion of speed but speed is part of what they’d bring. It would also pay to add a SS — say Barron, Mark — to address our problems with breakdowns in run defense.
Where I’m more open to suggestions for change is in the area of moving from one gap penetrating Phillips 3-4 from the often more reactive 2-gap responsibilities of the Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4. We’re not necessarily limited now but the emphasis is clearly more on responding intelligently to the offense (thus requiring a smart, coordinated team) rather than aggressively blowing up plays. The key factor in any of these changes, however, is improving our talent level of defense. And I’m still for having an intelligent team but I’m not for a slow, reactive one. This isn’t necessarily a departure since we’ve tried to do some of these things but were often unsuccessful. Changing your philosophy alone is not enough.
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
Track speed
Track speed matters only if the recievers are allowed to run free. Failure to pressure the QB with 4 guys reduces the ability of the LBs and secondary to play aggressive coverage. If you lack track speed you become limited in your ability to disrupt the route of the reciever knowing that once clear he will blow past you and you have no ability to recover. If the QB has to release in the first two seconds you are much freeer to engauge the reciever knowing that by the time he frees himself the ball will already be gone so no recovery required.
miscellaneous
I recall Simon Fletcher having the fastest “running 40” on the team, which just goes to show it’s not always the fast start that’s important but your top speed. Jerry Rice’s speed was attributable to this. He clearly wasn’t as slow as advertised but few people understood why.
I agree with you, Flunkie.
My focus has been on improving our LB’s pass coverage ability, but it’s contingent on the DL’s push/penetration. A DL with a very quick first step can blow up a play but containment still counts. Successful DLs collapse the pocket and create confusion, making it hard for the QB to know whether to step up or seek an escape route to the side/back.
My criticism of our tendencies is that our DL isn’t going to shorten the thinking time for the QB nor blow up many plays with penetration & confusion. That’s largely a talent issue on the DL. We could get better at blitzing from the ILB position, too.
A more fortuitous draft with players such as McClain, Weatherspoon, Butler, etc., would have helped, too. Having fewer holes at DL & LB makes it a lot easier (and productive) to be aggressive on defense. And it also allows you to threaten more blitzes and back off, forcing more max protect reactions.
I’m in favor of reexamining our previous commitment to size over speed. I’m not advocating a major shift but I would like more speed/talent for various reasons.
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
I
agree Colinski, your avatar kind of frightens me though because it looks like the computer virus I’ve gotten several times.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 21, 2010 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
yes, I've been considering something much shorter
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
sorry, thought you meant signature instead of avatar
It’s the cross of St. John or of the Knights Hospitaller.
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
colinski, re your comment on DL/LB penetration/disruptiveness
i would say it’s not only a talent issue but also an athleticism and coaching issue. when the broncos pass rush, you never see DL stunts and you never see sophisticated LB blitzes that are coordinated with the DL to create blitzing lanes. i would blame the former on not having quick/athletic DLs that can perform stunts, and i would blame the latter on both personnel talent and not having an elite DC that can create thoughtful and creative blitz schemes. all we ever see is fire dogs where everyone runs into a congested pile. we never see the perfectly timed DL move that intentionally creates a split second seam that is exploited by a perfectly timed LB or DB. are we to assume that someone like wink or slowik COULD HAVE masterfully orchestrated those schemes if only they had more talented guys? i doubt it. but even if we had a brilliant DC, would a 34 with ayers and doom allow that kind of creativity? i don’t think so. i think both doom and ayers are incapable of flying into gaps like a clay matthews. so having a doom and ayers at OLB negates the creative possibilities of the 34 and just relegate the defense to a 52.
We need to be a 2 gap aggressive 3-4...not a 1 gap react 3-4
This one change could make our “Talent” level go up exponentially! Thomas, Banan and Vickerson would excel in a 2 gap 3-4.
Regarding speed…we have had our fastest LB on the sidelines for most (almost all) 3rd and long defensive plays. Wessly Woodyard needs to be used more on passing downs…period.
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
yes
I was trying to say something like that. I’m not an ‘Xs and 0s’ guy but I have read Steve Nichols (and Doc). The idea was to allow for less reaction, so maybe there’s some miscommunication. My thinking was that more single gap emphasis could aid this, and more one-gap assignments (which can occur in a 2-gap scheme) allow the DLs a little more freedom to penetrate without fear. It’s also true that discipline is still important since penetration can be used against you, too.
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
my problem with investing a high pick on a 3-4 DE
is that you’re still left highly invested in two slow-twitch OLBs and still short a future NT. believe me, i don’t want to keep switching schemes either, but at some point we have to say we’re in deep with ayers and doom, and maybe if we’re going to rebuild, optimizing them is an important consideration. if you pick up another 34 OLB, you are subtracting ayers from the mix — and we just can’t afford to be subtracting 24-25 yr old 1st rd “talent.”
djw, for all his faults, would make pretty solid WILL to help fortify the right side behind dumervil. i think you could focus on getting a monster 43 DT ad have a pretty impressive 4-man front with ayers and doom at the DEs. young and an interesting range of talent, with lots of existing rotational DTs in bannan, vickerson, thomas, and even jwilliams. it should be relatively easy to figure out a serviceable SAM in FA and either spend a 2nd rd on a MLB or maybe rely on mays there for a year. on your speed comment, people knock mays in coverage, but all i saw of him this year was decisive movement and angles. he doesn’t have speed but he seemed to get to the ballcarrier faster than djw and arrive with more pop. that leaves a 2nd rd pick for a durable safety, and the defense is quickly and vastly improved on age and athleticism. yes that means another year of growing into a new defense, but i think it’s worth it to have a pretty promising talent foundation and fit.
I agree
PATRICK PETERSON, CB / S, L.S.U. is the pick! 6’1 222lbs
This would probably be the Cowboys dream scenario because the safety position has been a major problem area for many years now. L.S.U.’s Patrick Peterson actually plays cornerback in college but there are many scouts who feel his best fit at the next level will come inside at safety. Peterson is quite the physical specimen, checking in at 6-1 and 222 pounds with 4.4 speed and elite athleticism. Not only is Peterson an impact playmaker in coverage but he is also extremely physical in run support and a standout return man to boot. Patrick Peterson | L.S.U. Tigers Regardless of whether Peterson lined up at corner or safety he would represent a major upgrade to the Broncos leaky secondary. Denver might also consider a defensive end such Marcell Dareus of Alabama.
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
my recent comments
I’ve put it between Fairly and Peterson, with Dareus and Amukamara next, in either order. I gave Fairley the edge because: 1), of his position being a need; 2), positional impact (less for DL34s but still somewhat high); 3), positional impact; 4) supply. I see the situation on CBs pretty much as Matt at WalterFootball does in his draftology section. The fact that we can find a very good CB later has some influence on the decision, too. This also true of the DE34s this year so the decisional criteria may warrant re-evaluation.
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
future direction -- re: "problems with investing..."
Fairley times at a 4.83 – 5.0?(4.92 listed) range for a 300+ guy so it’s a stretch to call him a slow twitch athlete, especially with his athleticism. He’s also a very high motor, go-till-the-end-of- the-play guy. Maybe the best aspect is that he’d fit as DT in the 4-3 or DT34 in the 3-4. I see his potential as a DE34 who can pass rush proficiently while you probably would like his ability as a DT.
Ayers has timed in the 4.6 – 4.7(4.68 listed) range, which is pretty good for a 255 lb. guy. He can also switch outside besides being known as a good pass coverer. Houston times at a 4.64(low) and has been a very productive this year so his stock is rising.
The crowding problem at OLB34 is an issue but (at least for this quick MOCK) I decided that it’s better to have more pass rushing ability (especially considering how poorly we do without it) and use Ayers as nickel DL inside on 3rd down situations. That’s the logic anyways, and I did consider it when I made the pick. Again, there’s potential to adapt to a 4-3 but the choice were made under a 3-4 criterion.
The NT problem remains but it’s not because of emphasis but lack of high level prospects. I’ve been more geared to a prospect such as Phil Taylor later on. He’s moved up now and I could have mentioned him if it were a full MOCK. I see us perhaps adding a UFA such as Soliai and looking for NTs later, when they’re not reaches. The point of my original comment was show the addition of talent along with some speed. The draft choices were examples to illustrate my point.
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
correction
I meant to say "[Fairley would] fit as a DE34 in the 3-4. "
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
Brian beat me to it
The difference between the 08 team and this years team is we can get stops but then we give up a big play. The 08 defense seemed to give up 5 to 10 yards every single play.
And now for something completely different
by AlbertaBronc on Dec 21, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
True
But ultimately aren’t we splitting hairs? The 2008 Broncos D was terrible, the 2010 Broncos D is terrible – they may take slightly different paths to get there, but the end result is the same.
"You cocky cock! You'll pay for your crimes against humanity!"
"He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup."
I'm not saying this D is good by any means
but we at least have some players who can step up and make a play. Improvements however most definitely need to be made.
I don’t look at this team and go “wow, 32 players on this team are going to be unemployed next year” like the 08 team. While most of them aren’t solid everydown starters, alot of them could find work as decent backups elsewhere (if they don’t retire lol).
And now for something completely different
by AlbertaBronc on Dec 21, 2010 11:23 AM MST up reply actions
LOL. Good point.
I agree with AlbertaBronc in that I think we have some better basic players than were left with the 2008 defense.
Doesn’t mean we still don’t have a long way to go.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
I'm not so sure Brian
If indeed the talent is higher in the 2010 defense, then why is it worse in most statistical categories, including points allowed, than the already horrific 2008 defense?
Regardless, the average age of the starters for this 2010 defense is very old, and this does not bode well for the future.
The Coach and GM the most important piece!
I hate to say this but I believe that BB would have this team in the playoffs without breaking a sweat.
We traded a 4rd pick for Maroney
BB picked up Woodhead off waivers
Andy Reid lost Brandon Graham and 1 day later picked up Derick Burgess
Trevor Pryce, Gerald Warren, Josh Wilson, Marshawn Lynch all could have been signed by the Broncos not to mention LT, Thomas Jones, Julius Peppers, Karlos Dansby, Rolle, Bulluck, even Joey Porter could have helped this team once doom went down.
We need to star making good personnel decisions and this team will be a force in a hurry.
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
these are just random name off the top of my head
If you really look at who has been available over the last 2 years it is shocking!
This isn’t anything crazy. We simply need someone who can pick up the correct player off the market when one of our players go down. The person in BAL, PHI, NO and NE are right on the Money and as much as I hate the Chargers they pick up solid rotational player over the course of every season.
They lost Merriman and nobody is talking about it. The list goes on and on…same with GB and even TB. We need a great personal person ASAP! I will gladly volunteer :)lol (I wish..allot of the moves that the good teams make are just common sense)
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
Anderson (HOU), Brock (SEA), Burgess (PHI), Barnes (BAL-PHI-SD) and Adalious Thomas
Should have been brought in for a workout as soon as DOOM went down. All the above players where on the open market during this season.
Mark Anderson has (4 sacks) in 9 games 0 starts
Raheem Brock has 5 sacks
Burgess just got to PHI so we will see how that plays out but he was the sack leader of the entire league not that long ago. How is he not worth a workout?
Antwan Barnes has (4 sacks) in 9 games 0 starts
Thomas is still on the market
Kamerion Wimbley (6 Sacks) was on the open market before the last draft
Cameron Wake (14 sacks was brought in from the indoor league last year)
Chris Clemons was on the Trade Block this year (10 sacks)
Carlos Dunlap (7 sacks) avl in the late second round (I don’t even want to go there with Matthews and Orakpo form last years draft)
Tully Banta-Cain (5 sacks) was on the market this last off-season
Travis LaBoy (5 sacks) was on the market this last off-season
Joey Porter (5 sacks) was on the market this last off-season
Fred Robbins A DEFENSIVE TACKLE (5 sacks) was on the market this last off-season
WE SHOULD HAVE 5-10 PLAYERS FROM ALL OVER WORKING OUT RIGHT NOW IN DOVE VALLEY. THEY ARE OUT THERE SOMEONE JUST HAS TO MAKE IT A PRIORTY
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
team
The way you laid it out makes me feel better. You always do. But watching the games is panful
Agreed -- my family gets treated to 24 hours of my being depressed after every loss ;-p
I’m inclined to believe that if we can get some truly competent coaches on staff, we’ll see a quicker turn around than most people believe.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
Injuries, bad coaching, and some older players have made this team seam worse then it is.
We need to start by hiring a good GM who knows how to draft and pick up some good FA’s. Then we need a coach that can make his coaches coach to the best of there ability, and make his players play 110% every single down. We need players to fight for each other, not just get smashed by an opponent. We need to get younger and have more team speed, back to the zone-blocking. With Tebow at QB, the zone-blocking, play action roll outs would work to the best of his abilities. Tebow is Plummer with better legs, a more accurate arm, and a ton better leader. Did you se him, even after a 3 and out, when he was try to get Marcus Thomas and his D fired up late in the game, LOVE IT!
This off season starts up top in the GM office and needs to have it carry down to the players. We’ve had shit up there the last couple of years and it al went staight down on to the field.
Agreed with your opening:
We need to start by hiring a good GM who knows how to draft and pick up some good FA’s. Then we need a coach that can make his coaches coach to the best of there ability, and make his players play 110% every single down.
I’m not entirely convinced that zone blocking in & of itself would be an advantageous answer. In both 2009 and 2010 we’ve used zone blocking with mixed success. The problem I see in going that route is that for two years now, the team has worked on getting o-linemen in place for a gap blocking scheme. The physical traits, from what I’ve read, are slightly different between the two approaches. We may not have the personnel to be effective if we switch schemes at this point. But then again, that’s why I’m only a fan and not a coach. ;-p
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
IMO Brian Xanders will be kept as the GM. He has an excellent pro & college scout directors.
Pat Bowlen brought him in from Atlanta in 2008 and I think he gets his chance without a coach to override his suggestions. My second move, if I was Pat, would be to try and get Mike Nolan as HC. Mike brought in Wink so I think a good relationship is already there.
Now what happens when Denver has the #1 pick? Andrew Luck?
I'm hoping that whatever high pick we have
we use on an impact player on the defensive side of the ball.
I would think we want to see what we have in Tebow before we go and grab another QB in the first round.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
If we get the #1 pick
And IF Luck comes out …. TRADE CITY! Get out of that number one pick with an extra pick or two and try to find the lowest spot where we can still get Fairley
While that would be nice
From what I can recall, no team has succeeded in trading down out of the 1st overall pick, largely because of the $$ involved in signing that player.
The closest I can recall to anything like that happening was when Elway was picked by the then Baltimore Colts and subsequently traded to Denver, likewise the Eli Manning for Phillip Rivers switch. Other than those two instances, I cannot recall a team ever managing to get out of using their number 1 pick.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
You're right
Lately the the first few picks of the draft have been a curse as much as a blessing because of the guaranteed money that those players command. However, keep in mind that one of the prime things owners are looking to do in the new collective bargaining agreement is limit rookie salaries. This might make these high round picks much more desirable, which can only work in the Broncos favor.
That would be nice
I have long been an advocate of a rookie salary cap — I just can’t imagine how a top notch o-lineman with years experience and earning a minimal salary must feel when a rookie that hasn’t played a down in the NFL is awarded a multimillion dollar contract.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 22, 2010 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
You would pass up a franchise player?
Yes, I understand that we do not know what Tebow will do, but Luck does not have his limitations as an NFL pocket QB.
To be frank, yes I would
But that has less to do with either Tebow or Luck than it does with my dislike of the term “franchise” player. I really dislike applying the term “franchise player” to college players who have yet to show whether or not they can perform in the NFL. IMHO the only time that term is valid is after the player has been in the league for a time and proven demonstrated that his team would be far less successful without him.
By the way, that is not aimed at you personally DL, I’ve enjoyed reading your many contributions. I didn’t mean to go off on a tangent there, but that has been one of my hot buttons for several years now.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 22, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
It's not all talent or lack of...
There are a lot of guys that are foundation pieces on this team, they can easily build around them and win – we’re talking become a legit .500 team with promise in 2011.
Coaching – philosophy – stability … these are the 3 things that the team lacks and has lacked for several years, especially on defense.
The defense has new players, but the coaches and schemes have changed way too frequently. Offense has been the priority in the drafts and that does need to change. You look at the great defenses that produce well year after year and they are built through the draft with sound coaching and a philosophy that doesn’t change. Denver has been the exact opposite through most of the last decade.
Fix the defense and you cure a lot of what ails this team… they can do whatever they want on offense and it won’t matter until they laser focus on defense.
______
Mile High Mania
by Mile High Mania on Dec 21, 2010 9:29 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Mile High! I wish I had said what
you just said. This is spot on! Coaching – philosophy – stability! All 3 are absent, or at the very least confused. With Shanahan, particularly in the early years, you knew they believed in run first, zone blocking…. one cut and upfield. The coaches on the line and for the RBs coached this like it was religion, they knew exactly what type of player to draft/acquire for this style and then they coached the heck out of them. I remember the old Bobby Turner line for the RBs, “no running out of bounds, go for the extra yd at the end of the play!” Players gained confidence knowing what exactly was expected of them and seeing that they were being coached to that end. How many average rbs did we turn into 1k runners because they had a skill that allowed them to flourish in this style under this philosophy? How many average lineman looked like pro-bowlers because they executed well, even to the point of being hated in the league because of their legal cut-blocking that was coached within the rules? I think we are missing exactly what you just said.
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 21, 2010 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
Amen:
Coaching – philosophy – stability
I’d add one more thing: Identity.
In the late 70’s, Denver was defined as the Orange Crush.
In the Super Bowl winning years, we were Elway’s team.
Since 2000, the Broncos have not seemed to have a defining identity. Perhaps Tebow can give that to us, or perhaps we can see a resurgence of the kind of defense we had during the first six games of 2009.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
Identity comes from having the talent/coaching scheme in the first place.
Some fans talk too much about putting in place an “identity” .
The trouble is that an “identity” is an intangible that you can’t build to order.
Build the talent and then you come up with whatever fancy nickname you want – Doomsday, Purple People, Steel Curtain, Orange Crush, No-Name etc.
Anyway agree with your original post – we don’t need to blow the whole roster up. 2 good drafts and we are back in this thing.
What would Blackie Lawless do?
by British Bronco on Dec 21, 2010 12:19 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
[I voted some talent, but needs work]
All of our players have some NFL talent, or else why would they even be on our 53-man roster? I just wonder, though, how many of our starters would actually be starters on other NFL teams. Would some of them be starters on the lower echelon teams? Most likely. However, would they also be starters on the some of the NFL’s more elite teams? Probably very few of them.
So the issue isn’t simply whether they have talent or not. (They all have some talent.) It’s more an issue of whether or not our players have enough talent to consistently outplay the competition. There’s a reason why talentless teams pick at the top of the NFL Draft. They are talentless, so the NFL let’s them restock with top talent so that they can be competitive in the near future. Sorry, but that’s reality.
I'd agree to a point
My thought at this juncture is that we have some of the basic pieces to build around — that is, legitimate starter quality players. Brandon Lloyd and Elvis Dumervil spring to mind in that regard.
The issue we’re faced with is that we have too many holes, add to that less than stellar coaching, too much change in two years and too many key injuries. Doesn’t matter if you have the best QB in the league if you’re line can’t give him the time to pass and your running backs can’t make positive yardage, he’s not going to look very good.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Good job Brian and
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 21, 2010 9:33 AM MST reply actions
I think you just brought up a very key point:
that weird mix of stuff that makes a team successful, there is not always a “recipe” for success. Hate to sound trite but it’s the intangibles, will, commitment, desire, etc. I think that comes from the brass knowing how to ID those things.
How is that New England has rookies comprising almost a fifth of their people (active roster, injured reserve, practice squad) while Atlanta has no rookies, and both teams are 12-2?
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
Table issue
Great post, Brian. I would just recommend correcting the table at the top a bit. First column should read 2008 rather than 2009. There was also some formatting issues caused by only one row of RBs when a couple of columns referenced more than one. Good stuff!
Thanks for the catch on the heading
It’s been corrected.
I agree about the formatting problem with the positions. It was hard to decide how to handle it since some games had a FB while other didn’t and the one game that started with four WRs and no TEs, etc.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:43 AM MST up reply actions
As Mike Lombardi writes often and repeatedly, teams must be careful to overrate their own talent.
Let’s look at our roster
Larsen – isn’t a fullback. We need one.
McBath – can’t stay healthy – We need a reliable and better FS
Hill – well he’s not really fooling anyone. We really need a SS. His name is not Bruton.
Moreno – can’’t stay healthy – no breakaway ability. We really need a speed back.
TE – We don’t have an NFL caliber one our roster.
ILB – We don’t have one on our roster. We have 4-3 OLBs in Hunter and DJ. Haggen plays like a backup most weeks.
OLB – Robert Ayers is not one of these. He is a 4-3 DE.
OLB – We don’t have one with TE or RB coverage skills on our roster.
I haven’t even mentioned the D-line yet.
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
by McGeorge on Dec 21, 2010 9:57 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
Has Bruton been cut yet?
His epic fail of a non-tackle on Reese ranks near the top of Broncos defensive lowlights (on the field, anyway), and this year that’s saying something.
"You cocky cock! You'll pay for your crimes against humanity!"
"He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup."
/agreed. That was ridiculous.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
by BroncoRick69 on Dec 21, 2010 10:29 AM MST up reply actions
That entire play was DJs fault. He forgot to cover the back and Bruton was left in space (a lot of open space).
The commentator said it was Lee Robinson. I didn’t tape the game so I can’t be sure, but the ILB F’ed up that play moreso that Bruton.
But yes, it was ugly and Bruton didn’t look NFL ready on that one.
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
Agreed on DJ
He’s the Orton of our D – puts up good numbers, but rarely makes the play when it counts.
"You cocky cock! You'll pay for your crimes against humanity!"
"He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup."
That's
hilarious, both D.J. and Orton like to drink as well…… (that part isn’t so funny)
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 21, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
Replay shows it was DJ that took a fake on the off tackle and there went Reese.
You can se DJ following behind the play.
You are watching the wrong game friend. That pass was to Ayers side. He rushed the passer and the ILB behind him was to take the back. Instead, the ILB also rushed the passer. I believe it was DJ, but the commentator said it was Lee Robinson.
You may hate Hunter, but I’m starting to wonder if you even know whom Hunter is.
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
Nope dont hate Hunter just remember he circled OLB and the MLB one of which was responsible
Did you see how far the DJ was lined up in relation to the fullback? He was on the Right side and haggan was to his left. Reese was lined up to Haggan. Haggan crashed in on a blitz and the OLB tried to chip. DJ was locked in on McFadden.
Watch the Video if you dont believe me:http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121912/2010/REG15/broncos@raiders#tab:watch
There is no way you can expect DJ to have the Fullback when he is lined up that far i doubt it was DJ’s responsiblity. I think DJ was maned up on DMAC.
For the record i like Hunter he has played well at times but pretty bad other times(9ers game).
how can we know this?
sometimes we see players with good awareness, like champ, cleaning up mistakes made by others. just because we see them pursue doesn’t mean it was their bad. if i recall correctly, we had multiple guys on that left side blitz — it’s entirely possible that DJW was supposed to go and someone else wasn’t, and only he noticed that his teammateds f’ed up.
i know everyone here is more down on DJW than i am, but let’s keep in mind that (i) DJW doesn’t have a history at WILL or MIKE of massively blowing assignments, and (ii) his LB teammates are scrubs that have been rotated a LOT this year. if i had to guess who’s blowing assignments, i would not guess DJW.
by ssc on Dec 21, 2010 12:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It was DJ. He completely spaced on the coverage [no surprise there]
Regardless, I agree mostly with your comments. Bruton at this stage is an STer. McBath can’t stay healthy. Hill is old [and FS], and needs to retire. Dawk needs to retire. Ayers is a 4-3 DE. Doom is honestly a better rusher with his hand in the ground, thus, 43 DE. Woodyard might be a Will in a 40 front. Might be. Mays might be a Mike.
As for TE’s, they can block, but they aren’t great at catching. Larsen I have no idea about because we dont use the fullback hardly ever. He’s been fairly average [I’d welcome an upgrade if we could get one though.]
Buffs: 5-7.
Ducks: 12-0!
Hawks: 7-5 >:(
This is much closer to where we really are. Mays, Haggan and Hunter should all be backups. If we can move DJ for a third, we should do it. I would not be surprised if we tried to move Ayers either. If not, try him at DE here and draft an OLB that can actually rush the passer. Trade back and get Von Miller, maybe?
Also, McBath and Bruton are not the answer. Please move them back to ST only.
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Dec 21, 2010 10:20 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
No way we will be able to move DJ for a 3rd. He will be suspended for a few games to start 2011. We have to keep DJ since he is worth more to us than anyone else.
Santonio Holmes was traded for a 5th and he’s a much better NFL player than DJ.
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
Am I missing something?
Why will DJ be suspended to start 2011? The DUI?
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
Is there really
some rule that says to wait for this kind of suspension?!
Why wouldn’t that be immediate?
A pessimist sees the difficulties in every opportunity.
An optimist sees the opportunities in every difficulty.
- Winston Churchill
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 21, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
I’m not sure why it takes so long, but I would guess Roger Goodell really likes to make sure he has all his ducks in a row before bringing down the hammer. These things always take a long time to sort themselves out.
I was trying to remember Marshall's last suspension
But I was pretty sure the ‘offense’ that instigated his last suspension occurred in the offseason, and don’t remember for certain anyway, so I was totally wondering about that.
Thanks for pointing that out.
A pessimist sees the difficulties in every opportunity.
An optimist sees the opportunities in every difficulty.
- Winston Churchill
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 21, 2010 3:45 PM MST up reply actions
Wide receivers seem to have varying value (look at B. Marshall), but I think you’re right. The suspension won’t help either. That’s why I said “if” they can get a third. I’d also move him for a fourth. Otherwise, bring him back. By now, we know that DJ is simply an average linebacker — one who looks good one play and terrible the next — no matter his position. We need an upgrade at his position eventually, but next year, we may have more pressing priorities.
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Dec 21, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions
Not may. We will have more pressing priorities. Like replacing McBath, Hill, Haggen and maybe Champ. And getting an NFL worthy TE.
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
Kyle Rudolph!

"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins
"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.
I pretty much agree with this
I think Larsen is replaceable at FB, but I think he could be a heck of an inside linebacker. He was WAY better at hitting people who have the ball rather than hitting those who don’t.
McBath and Bruton are too unproven at this point. I have high hopes for McBath, but we’ll see what happens there. Definitely need upgrades at S.
Hill is no good.
Moreno is a good player, but DOES need a speed supplement. I would agree.
We need Kyle Rudolph or DJ Williams.
I like our potential DL if we move to a 4-3.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 21, 2010 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
McBath is our Bob Sanders. Talent isn’t his issue, but health sure is. Dude just can’t be relied upon for 16 games. We need to find his replacement or else we will just constantly be replacing him with scrubs and backups an a weekly basis. This never works.
Tebow should get a real TE so I hope we draft a great pass catching one in round 2 or 3.
I’d use our picks as follows:
Round 1 CB – Peterson
Round 2 – DE
Round 2 – ILB or Safety
Round 3 – TE
It’s a real shame McD pissed away our 4th round pick on Maroney. That was very dumb because that could have been a Safety or TE.
We almost have to trade back thanks to McD trading away our 4th, 5th and 6th round picks. I pray the next GM isn’t so fond of trading away future picks.
Do you have any idea what pick we got for Phonz?
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
We have a 6th from NE for the Maroney trade.
Champs trade should bring a 2nd. I would move DJ for a 3 rd to a 4-3 defense.
Now if we have the #1, we take Andrew Luck and trade Tebow back to Jacksonville for a 3rd and keep Orton. That would leave a bunch of picks for the defense.
We're not takign Luck
It’s just pure stupidity. Not that he’s a bad player, but we’d be starting from square one for the third straight year at the position. No, no, a BILLION times no.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 21, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
It isn't stupidity if we don't get a coach that wants to play to Tebow's strengths
Luck would be the same as starting Tebow next year…both are young and need work.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
Thank you Sayre for being a voice of reason!!
I for one, am tired of all this Andrew Luck talk. When will people realize that this is not Madden? You cannot win if you are constantly shuffling around players! Believe it or not, consistency matters!!
"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins
"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.
I hope we get the #1 overall pick and trade it to a team that NEEDS Luck. We’d get a fortune for that pick. Surround Tebow with guys that don’t suck (Rich Quinn, Haggen, McBean, Hill, McBath) come to mind.
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
It would be a King's ransom...
I agree. The key to building a great dynasty is through the draft. See the Colts and Patriots.
By the way, I love your signature.
"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins
"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.
Then it would be stupid to hire that coach
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 21, 2010 4:34 PM MST up reply actions
I’m having a hard time with this post. Too many “ifs”.
Do you know what we got for Trading Phonz. I heard we also traded picks with the Lions. Knowing McD, we probably gave the Lions a 5th and they gave us a 7th.
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
We traded Phonz and a 7th for Gronk and a 6th
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 21, 2010 4:34 PM MST up reply actions
Trade back or stay?
This is going to be a tough question, and right now there are too many outstanding variables. Whether we re-sign, franchise or let Champ walk is one. Any value we’re able to get for DJ or Orton is another. Whether we run a 3-4 or 4-3 is probably the most important consideration.
Another consideration is that if we pick no. 2, teams may be unwilling to move that high, especially if Luck is gone. If we’re picking no. 4 or no. 5, there may be a team out there willing to move up for Newton, Mallett or Locker (I guess). In that way, winning one of these final two may benefit us. Of course, if we end up with the top pick, all bets are off.
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Dec 21, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
Winning this week
Will help out in many ways, but I think it will get rid of this drafting Luck thoughts (which in my opinion is nonsense). I really think being in 4 or 5 slot makes our draft more interesting, but to be honest I really have no idea how it will shake out.
It will be real interesting the couple of weeks after our last game to see what happens and the direction our team takes. Besides the record and games, after the season will be an exciting and anxious time for our franchise.
it doesn't make sense to let champ go and then use a 1st rd pick on a corner
we can talk about how much champ has lost from his prime, but he’s still a top 5 CB. even if he’s just a top 10 CB, why would you let him go and then spend a premium pick on a CB? i’d rather pay champ the $8m/yr for 3 yrs, and use our first three picks on a DT, safety, AND an ILB.
If Champ wants to stay
I agree with everything you said. I would pay the man money, he means more to our team then just playing corner (which he still does really well).
Wrong
Elvis had double-digit sacks in a 4-3. He’s no worse against the run than he is defending the pass.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 21, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
Sayre, that is to say that he’s all-pro level against the run? He’s just not worth his contract if we go back to a 4-3, IMO. If we go back to a 4-3, and if we could move him for two second-round picks, I would strongly consider it.
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Dec 21, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions
He is totally worth it
He is a PASS RUSHER, not a run stuffer. He’s not good in pass coverage, and he’s not great at stopping the run, but at least he can use his quickness to be competent in that area. He’s not good at OLB, he’s good at rush DE/LB. Can’t trade away our only good, young player on defense for 2nd round picks.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 21, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
Sayre.. you are right, Elvis a just a pass rusher. Is he less of a liability in the 3-4 or 4-3?
In the 3-4, he is on the field every down. With the 4-3 he would come in on 3rd down. He can not play the 4-3 DE because he is only 248lbs and can not set the corner. In the 3-4 he is a WOLB with less responsibilities for runs but he also can not cover very well.
The one thing that needs to be remembered is that
in a 3-4 90% of the time one of the LB’s is blitzing otherwise its just a 3 man rush. Now i’m no football coach but if i was i’d want Dooms rushing the qb everytime he’s on the field. So while yes he can’t cover, if Dooms is on the field and he’s not rushing the qb that coach needs to be fired. The 3-4 also plays to Doom’s strengths alot more then the 4-3. Against the rush, he’s got more of a chance avoiding blockers then in a 4-3. This makes him much more capable against the run allowing him to be on the field more.
Sayre all Eddie is saying is that Dooms is not worth his contract if he’s only on the field on passing downs. However i think we could get more then 2 2nds for him lol.
And now for something completely different
by AlbertaBronc on Dec 21, 2010 5:56 PM MST up reply actions
You could well be right on all counts
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:46 AM MST up reply actions
Lets just hope the next GM understands talent better than McD and Shanny. Those two whiffed far too often in this area (not too surprising since both are COACHES)
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
Agreed
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Fun Review
I enjoyed this analytical piece, Brian, and I agree with your basic premise, that we are at least as strong now in certain areas than we were in 2008.
While it is enticing to compare Cutler and Crowd on offense to Orton, et al., I am going to resist the temptation, because I really do not want to get us back into a discussion of the merits of McDaniels and Cutler, for good or for bad, we have moved beyond both of them. In some areas I think we have replaced age with youth (OL) and youth with age (DL secondary). Its fun to compare but I won’t say which is better. I will say that I am much more comfortable with our receivers now and that McD’s strength was definitely with developing the passing game, at both ends of the passing attack.
My difference of opinion does involve the defensive line and inside backers. I think the drafting of the past two years focused way too much on offense and too little on defensive meat in the middle. Wouldn’t it be nice to have BJ Raji and Rolando McClain now?
As for draft timing, would we rather have Parrish Cox (not the promised high character guy) instead of Alphonse Smith at a lower round price?
I do not envy the next Bronco GM, but whatever he does, I hope he does it with some class and without soap opera. For that reason alone, I hope we do not entice Bill Parcells into our front office. Our personnel moves should be smooth and seamless.
The cupboard is not bare, and this offseason should provide some fascinating fodder for us armchair GMs.
by Baltimore Bronco on Dec 21, 2010 9:58 AM MST reply actions
I like the image
The cupboard is not bare, and this offseason should provide some fascinating fodder for us armchair GMs.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
Coincidence? I think not
Brian is your headline borrowed from a comedy routine? It struck me when I saw it
If it was it was subconscious
Hadn’t even been thinking of comedy when I wrote this. LOL
Funny how that works sometimes, isn’t it?
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
We definately have a talented roster, now we need the talented staff to utilize them in the right ways.
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Tim 'the Mile High Messiah' Tebow
by David G. Little on Dec 21, 2010 10:21 AM MST reply actions
And several more talented players to fill in the holes. :)
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
I disagree
When you look at our team and specifically our starters, how many of them would be starting on other teams rosters? Bailey, Royal, Lloyd, Clady and possibly Bannan, Williams and Goodman, in my opinion. I can’t say Moreno is a starter because he hasn’t proven the ability to stay healthy.
We need to be easier on Moreno
He’s had 1,000 all purpose yards each year in hte league
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 21, 2010 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed
An if he could somehow stay healthy I would be interested to see his numbers then. I think some of the worries about him are legit, but at time we are too hard on him.
Agreed that health is my biggest concern about Moreno.
He needs to have a year in which he can show that he has the durability to stay on the field all 16 games (or 18 if they go to that. ;-p )
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:51 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think that is a big deal...
I think any #1 RB worth his salt should be well over 1000 all-purpose yards. It is so far off what we normally see from our backs…it is kind of sad that we should be easier on him…just my opinion.
"They are who we thought they were!"
gcman on twitter
I'm not sold on Moreno
I think he is a good back, and a threat out of the backfield, but he has several weaknesses. First and foremost is his continuing inability to stay healthy. He makes solid cuts, but doesn’t have great break away speed, and on the other side of the coin, he doesn’t have the power to be a reliable short yardage back. One serious weakness has been his pass blocking, which has ranged from poor to inexcusably bad. This of course is the reason you always see Buckhalter in on passing situations.
I don't think I said we had all the pieces or that all our guys would be starters
I’m merely suggesting that we are not as devoid of talent as some writers would have us believe.
We have a few of the pieces, we need more.
I’m also in the process of questioning the quality level of our coaching staff. I think some of our players would be much better than they currently appear if they had a stronger coaching staff.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
You forgot Vickerson's awesome INT!
I’m being entirely overly picky on what was an otherwise excellent article… You forgot to mention Vickerson’s awesome line-of-scrimmage INT against the Raiders this weekend!
by chripstopher on Dec 21, 2010 10:45 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
My bad
I must have been too busy digging into games further back. That was a totally awesome play.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 10:51 AM MST up reply actions
I think the success of the Offense next year will hinge on the O line
I’m really hoping Harris and Clady get 100% (if there not already) and the rookies get significantly better and the line gels and really produces solid results. That would go a LONG way in helping this team succeed.
The problem is, while I can see this unit being one of the 5 best in the NFL next year, I can also see them being in the bottom 5, if the rookies don’t improve and Harris and Clady continue there current (mediocre) ways.
Yeah, just watch Tom Brady...
During the Packers game I watched him bake an entire freaking lasagna! And I don’t mean with store-bought noodles… No, he literally made the pasta himself and then baked an entire lasagna while his O-Line did their thing.
by chripstopher on Dec 21, 2010 10:58 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
LMAO, that's awesome
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah but it was a little undercooked
if only his oline could’ve blocked a little longer ; )
i also watched a RG return a kickoff 76 yards, Green Bay has some injury issues right now lol.
And now for something completely different
by AlbertaBronc on Dec 21, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
Something to consider about the o-line
In games 1-5, we did not start the same 5 players in the same position in any two weeks in a row. During that span, the Broncos rushed for 259 yards.
In game 6 (NYJ) we ran an oline of Clady, Hochstein, Walton, Kuper and Beadles and saw a breakout game of 145 yards rushing. We kept that lineup through the next two games, but the rushing totals tailed off, finishing that 3 game span with 279 yards.
In game 9 (KC) we started Clady, Beadles, Walton, Kuper and Harris, and have kept that starting five in every game since. In those six games, Denver has failed to rush for over 100 yards exactly 1 time. During that same 6 game span, the Broncos have recorded 734 rushing yards.
While I think we won’t be top 5, I also don’t see us as being the bottom 5. More likely somewhere in the middle.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
I'll agree that it has gotten better, but
The way they were playing at the end of the game on sunday was unacceptable. There was a ridiculous amount of penetration, especially on the plays leading up to the safety. Maybe it was because they knew Tebow wasn’t gonna pass and were calling run blitzes, but that HAS to improve for next year
by broncoboy326 on Dec 21, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed
The offense was way too predictable at the end of that game.
I’d like to see the coaches turn Tebow loose, to pass and run both.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
agreed
Am I the only one who wants to see him run the option?
by broncoboy326 on Dec 21, 2010 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
The play calling was predictable all through that game...
I can recall exactly ONE first down that wasn’t a run and that was a first and 25. (after Moreno took that dumb facemask penalty) The raiders were gearing up for the run every first down. The results were as predictable as the play calling itself – second and long.
Raji Got Through
that was a fun game to watch…. but the Packers did nail Brady at least once. I thought Raji was going to turn Brady into a Boston Pancake.
by Baltimore Bronco on Dec 21, 2010 11:09 AM MST reply actions
The thing is
this is the NFL, everyone has talent. The problem for us though is that we don’t have enough. We have many glaring holes, most on D. With a good draft and maybe a good signing or 2, we will make strides.
Mostly agree with BSHROUT
The amazing thing is that the Broncos seemed to have LBs and LB projects (DEs moving back to LB) coming out their ears, as well as an overload of RBs. Yet that is still a glaring weakness of the team, mostly due to injuries. I would like to see Woodyard playing at SS added to BShrout’s projections.
Interesting
I had never considered moving Woodyard to SS. I wonder how that would play out.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 21, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not the first to suggest Woodyard at SS
I think 2010oc was the first I saw mention moving Woodyard to SS, but there have been others too. He is too light for LB, fast enough to play SS, and hits hard, like Steve Atwater. But I don’t know how well he covers receivers.
Really interesting, i like it alot
He’s one of our better cover LB’s but he’s more of a zone guy. Not sure exactly how well he matches up against receivers in man coverage.
And now for something completely different
by AlbertaBronc on Dec 21, 2010 4:34 PM MST up reply actions
I believe we have ample talent on the offensive side to build off of. Defense is another matter entirely. We’re pretty sketchy in all 3 levels IMO. The biggest thing I notice is no penetration and lack of speed in the linebacking core.
And we lack talent in the front office: we need a good GM (the Ravens guy whose name keeps popping up peaks my interest). And, for goodness sake, get rid of Ellis. He was just as much at fault for this whole mess as anyone.
Most people are running around - umbilical cord in hand - looking for a new place to plug in
I've been wondering about this for a while now. Thanks for doing the legwork.
I wonder how much a complicated scheme like McDaniels’ affected the ability of young players to step in and make an immediate impact. A complex scheme seems to indicate that it would work very well with no injuries, but that, by definition, the depth would not be able to execute well. Perhaps with time, like BB has had with the Pats, a complex strategy can work well. But getting all the depth in place to learn the system well enough to step up seems like a daunting task to me. I wonder if BB had significant injuries in his first few years at NE. Would that system have caught hold if he had battled the injuries we have battled this year?
I see quite a bit of talent… but I wonder how much of our problems are due to lack of depth and familiarity with the scheme? At this point, I hope the new coach just uses the KISS method. I don’t need him to be eloquent. Just a good guy who gets his players to run over, around, and through the opposition, and deliver punishing hits and quick stops on defense, ultimately scaring the opponent to turn the ball over for fear of being hit. Is that too much to ask?
-Harvey J. Neptune
Cutler is more than a tool...hes a frickin HOME DEPOT!
-Boydy
by HarvJNep2n on Dec 21, 2010 11:49 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
One of the biggest areas of concern to me is our assistants
I was really surprised when McD was fired during the year because I didn’t know who would be our interim coach. Look at other teams that fired their coach during the season, they all had assistants who were in demand and possible head coaching candidates. I hate railing on coaches, because I’m sure they have solid talents and expertise, but we don’t have a dominate assistant. I’m very anxious to see who our Head Coach will be, but just as important to me is the assistant (primarily coordinators) that come with.
True Enough
We have very limited coaching experience from our assistants. That’s the only reason Studes got the job – who else, Wink? Really, it showed how limited our coaching staff is, if he was the best one to run the team for now.
Good job laying out the data
It’s a lot of interesting numbers. Some of your analysis I agree with, some I’m not so sure.
Our LBs have pretty good depth if you can name 6 good players on that unit. They have issues, but every LB who has stepped in has performed fairly well to VERY well. Haggan has become a guy opposing teams scheme against – he could become a star. DJ Williams – we all know he’s good, but he hasn’t been great like we need him to be. Doom will be nice, and Ayers has stepped it up. Mays and Hunter ARE the depth, as far as good talent goes. Where would you upgrade the talent? Maybe move Haggan to OLB for Ayers and put in a true top tier ILB… but that’s about it. And be healthy.
RBs – I like Moreno. Everybody else has looked HORRIBLE (apart from the unused Larson). Blame the Oline, sure – we’re used to the zone system where any Shannahan backs can step in and go off for 1000 yards. Not true anymore – but Moreno’s success shows us how important the good RB is to our system now. I wouldn’t pin any hopes on LenDale White – he’s been kicked off 2 teams in the last year.
The secondary – I like Thompson. He shows tons of promise. My take on him so far is that he is undisciplined, but explosive, as a player. He seems slightly out of position at times, but has the ability to make up for it, and to make game-changing plays unlike the rest of our secondary (apart from Bailey/Dawkins). Bailey – I wish he’d stay. The Broncos should re-sign him. Even if he starts to get old and we move him to Safety – keep him a Bronco. We have too many holes back there to fill without him – look at how it went for the Texans who were bad last year and lost their best corner – making them the worst pass D in the league (apart from Dallas maybe).
Dline – you named 2/3 of our starters as promising, then said the unit was bad. NTs are hard to come by – Jamal Williams is the best we have. Upgrades are tough – an elite player at that position is a top priority, but I’m not sure one is out there. Sign Ngata maybe? If that doesn’t happen, and the top pick goes to the secondary, then we can keep him – he was coming off an injury and every time I watched Jamal specifically he played well. Dline depth would be great – but we have a pretty good starting 3.
So, my offseason wish-list:
-An experienced coach who will keep our legit talent and develop Tebow
-Good OC and DC who will compliment the coach
-A top-tier corner and/or safety
-Dline depth/talent (Sign Ngata if he is at all available – top pick NT is also an option if we like the player better than any CB/S)
-A backup RB who gets more than 1 YPC
-A TE who either is good at blocking (our rushing inability seems to say we don’t have this) or good at receiving (or both!)
-Oline depth
-If he’s out there, a very good ILB.
All good points Brian.
I am inclined to agree with you on a fundamental level. People who say things like “The Denver Broncos have no talent on their roster” and “Josh McDaniels drove away all the good players” tend to just be parroting something they heard on television or read in the paper. Both statements are based on something, but as is they’re both very broad, sweeping generalizations.
But sports fans are known for that sort of thing. No surprise there.
On the other hand, you are what your record says you are. The Broncos are looking at a potential 3-13 season here, and while there is talent on the roster, a record like that reflects a massive deficit of expertise in many critical places.
Every team has talent, and every team has potential. But leveraging it into something greater takes a very strong organization with a clear sense of direction. And that is the biggest thing that’s been missing in Denver for a long time.
Let’s hope that this will be remedied in the coming months. I have a couple of other teams but being primarily a Broncos fan, I am getting tired of having little to cheer for in January.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
Excellent post.
It is well thought out and well presented.
Rec. from the old firtstfan.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
Thanks, Brian
I hope our next coach takes the time to read this. We really don’t suck as bad as our record indicates. The problem seems to be that our talent lacks consistent direction and motivation.
Take my advice, I never use it.
Why Bears Fans are Stupid
this is from my friend who likes the Bears. Have at it my friends! I congratulated him on Chicago’s NFC North title but I had the “audacity” (for shame…) of calling Jay Cutler inferior to Tebow
I will accept the congratulations, but if you think Timmy Rah-Rah is going to be a championship QB… I am a little worried that your fandom has clouded your rationality. I am thinking he will have a career on par with Leinart, Jamarcus R., etc.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 21, 2010 4:21 PM MST reply actions
I think people severely underestimate the guys drive to be great
"Who says Tim Tebow can't throw the ball...? Whoever said that, they didn't know what they were talking about."
-Gus Johnson
I
just think that while he’s my friend, he’s taking the jackass approach because hey the Bears are in the playoffs. I know Chicago is the weak link because of Cutler. Gruden had vocal sex with Cutler in the booth (that’s disgusting Chuckie as was your stupid hat) last night but he is the one who can screw things up. We know that all too well.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 21, 2010 4:31 PM MST up reply actions
rec'd, but I was left with the impression
that you’re trying to push this team from bottom feeders to average or just below average.
I wish your poll had another option:
“A handful of gems, but ready to be turned over”
The unit I like the most going forward is the O-line. Clearly, they can play at a top level when healthy, and more time to develop and learn each other will cement them into a top-notch unit.
The Wide Receivers are great, tough I’d like to see a strong, tackle-breaking, #2 short yard receiver added to the group.
Tebow is as raw as rookies come, but I saw enough from him Sunday to be excited to watch him as he grows into a winning QB.
now, I think like the roster falls apart:
Knowshon has looked good at times, but I can’t escape the feeling that he is a good system RB, and not much more. When defenses give KM yards, he takes them, but if the Broncos are moving forward with Tebow at QB, we need a Rb who will make holes where there aren’t holes and FORCE defenses to address our running game first.
And I think the defense is a total mess
Vickerson, McBean, Bannan, Mays, Hunter, Haggan, McBath, Bruton, Thompson, and Cox have shown flashes of talent, for sure, but I can not escape the distinct impression that every one of those guys are average, serviceable, role players: no more, no less
Every good defense has role-players like them but a winning defense needs game breakers who will ignite things.
With the exceptions of Champ and Doom, The Broncos totally lack that type of player. TOP notch defenses need 4 or 5 “Dooms” (one at every position group, minimum) And the role players to complement them.
The Broncos defense is loaded with complementary players.
That means that good stats are very possible, especially with a great coordinator, but at the very best we’ll have a defense built to break only when it really counts.
Thus, you’re ultimately left with a mediocre team.
So I would support “blowing up” our defense in the sense of going all out for game breaking defensive players, then rebuilding around those (as yet unknown) players
by RickyAC on Dec 21, 2010 7:22 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Didn't mean to give this impression
you’re trying to push this team from bottom feeders to average or just below average.
Well and truly this team stinks. Are we average or just below average? Nowhere near.
Part of it has been coaching. Part of it has been roster turnover. Part of it has been injuries. Part of it has been lack of talent at numerous positions. What I’m trying to react to is the often repeated comments that I’ve read at MHR and elsewhere that would have readers believe the Broncos are pretty much completely devoid of NFL quality talent. I simply don’t see that. I think we have some solid players that can serve as a core for a strong rebuild.
Do we have a tremendous amount of work to do? Sure we do. But I’m not as convinced that things are as bleak as some people.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 22, 2010 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
Sorry if I came across as rude at all
but I guess this is just our difference in football philosophy. I like your optimism about the talent level too, all I’m saying is this: Building around the talent already here gets the Broncos to a mid-level or at best “solid” defense. Can these guys play? Certainly! I am going off of little more than my football instincts when I say a rebuild around the current crop of talent doesn’t get the Broncos to the level of a Super Bowl winning defense.
I really hope I’m wrong about that though
go Broncos
Didn't sound rude at all
Just a different perspective, which is why we have comments on posts. :)
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 24, 2010 7:38 PM MST up reply actions
The main reason for failure on defense is pass pressure.
When there is no pressure even John Skelton can make big plays…It isn’t the DBs fault the QB has 5 seconds to get the ball off…
Tebow versus Newton - Heisman years Compared
Big Al from 104.3 wants Denver to trade Orton and Tebow to get defensive help and draft Newton. Check out this comparison of the Heisman years of Tebow and Newton from a web site called saturdaydownsouth.com:
Let’s do a final comparison of Cam Newton’s current season’s numbers versus the Heisman season of Tim Tebow in 2007. The results might surprise you.
Touchdown Totals
* Cam Newton in 13 games put up 28 passing TDs, 20 rushing TDs and 1 receiving TD for a total of 49 touchdowns
* Tim Tebow in 12 games put up 32 passing TDs, 23 rushing TDs for a total of 55 touchdowns
Truly an astonishing total of touchdowns in 2007 for Tim Tebow – Cam Newton got the extra game with the SEC Championship Game against South Carolina.
Rushing Yards
* Cam Newton: 1409 total yards on the ground or 108.4 yards/game
* Tim Tebow: 895 total yards on the ground or 68.8 yards/game
This is where Cam Newton overtook Tebow – the yardage on the ground.
Passing Yards
* Cam Newton: 2589 total passing yards or 199.2 yards/game
* Tim Tebow: 3286 total passing yards or 252.8 yards/game
Total Yards
* Cam Newton: 307.5 yards/game
* Tim Tebow: 321.6 yards/game
Tim Tebow shines in passing yards and total yards per game.
As incredible as Cam Newton’s 2010 season has been, you have to agree that Tim Tebow’s year was even better back in 2007. He had more touchdowns in fewer games and more total yards per game than Cam Newton.
With that said, Cam Newton’s team went undefeated and Tim Tebow’s lost several games that year. However, on an individual statistical basis, Tebow in 2007 wins out.
Interesting. Thanks for adding that in.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Dec 22, 2010 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
Plus
Cam Newton has lots of controversy surrounding him and he’ll get us in trouble with the Commish. Trade Orton? Who wants him right now?
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 22, 2010 3:47 PM MST up reply actions

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