Denver Broncos 2011 Mock Draft Part Three: Can Broncos Move to a 4-3?
When Josh McDaniels was hired, one of the first moves he made was trading away the quarterback everyone thought he was hired to mentor. Obviously, people like Jay Cutler who are hard-headed and whimpy are not wanted on most teams, but it would have been nice to see what Denver could have been had they just stuck with Jay, but we will never know, and I am excited about the future that Tim Tebow brings. Let's look at some of the moves the Broncos have made since early 2009.
- QB Jay Cutler, 5th round pick (Johnny Knox, WR) traded to Chicago Bears for 2009 1st round pick (Robert Ayers), 2010 1st round pick (traded), 2009 3rd round pick (traded), and QB Kyle Orton
- Broncos trade 2010 1st round pick to Seattle Seahawks (Earl Thomas, S) for 2009 2nd round pick (CB Alphonso Smith)
- Broncos trade two 3rd round picks (G Kraig Urbik, WR Mike Wallace) to Pittsburgh Steelers for 2009 2nd round pick (TE Richard Quinn) and 2009 4th round pick (G Seth Olsen)
- Broncos trade up in 5th and 6th rounds of 2009 NFL Draft to select WR Kenny McKinley (deceased) and QB Tom Brandstater (Miami Dolphins)
- Broncos trade late round selections in 2010 Draft for OL Russ Hochstein, DL Le Kevin Smith
- Broncos trade WR Brandon Marshall to Miami Dolphins for 2010 2nd round pick and 2011 2nd round pick
- Broncos trade TE Tony Scheffler to Detroit Lions for 2010 5th round pick (CB Perrish Cox)
- Broncos trade 11th pick in 2010 Draft (OL Anthony Davis) from Chicago to San Francisco for 13th overall pick, 4th round pick
- Broncos trade 13th pick in 2010 Draft (DE Brandon Graham) from San Francisco to Philadelphia Eagles for 24th overall pick, two 3rd round picks (one traded, one used to draft WR Eric Decker)
- Broncos trade 24th pick (traded to Dallas, who selected WR Dez Bryant) and 4th round pick (TE Aaron Hernandez) to New England Patriots for 22nd overall pick (WR Demaryius Thomas)
- Broncos trade 2nd round pick from Miami Dolphins (OLB Sergio Kindle), 3rd round pick from Philadelphia (TE Ed Dickson) and 4th round pick (TE Dennis Pitta) for 25th overall pick (QB Tim Tebow)
- Broncos trade 2011 5th round pick for two 2010 7th round picks (CB Syd'Quan Thompson, DE Jammie Kirlew)
- Broncos trade RB Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round pick, conditional 2012 draft pick for QB Brady Quinn
- Broncos trade conditional 2012 pick for LB Joe Mays
- Broncos trade 4th round pick in 2011 to New England Patriots for RB Laurence Maroney
- Broncos trade CB Alphonso Smith and 7th round pick to Detroit Lions for TE Dan Gronkowski and a 6th round pick
Bowers and Fairley have both been dominant this season, and both play different positions on the line. Bowers is a defensive end who has double digit sacks and more than 20 tackles for loss this season. In fact, he's second in the nation in both categories.
If I was general manager, this is how the draft would go if it were held today.

Rudolph is a huge target at 6'5" 260. He is coming off of injury, but will be ready for next year, and should he declare for the draft, he will be the unquestioned top prospect at the position. He brings the Broncos a red zone presence that they have not had in some time, and a cast of characters that includes Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Lloyd, Kyle Rudolph, Eddie Royal, Jabar Gaffney, and whoever else is very appealing to me.







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Didn't have time to read it just yet Sayre
I will when I get home, but I looked at the picks and trades you put down. I was shocked you put Haynesworth – who I think is nothing but problems, although he is highly talented in a 4-3 (although I think if he put his own ego aside he could be far more talented than what he has been)
Other than that I like the picks, and I too would grab Reisner from Iowa – he’s a good fullback in my opinion!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
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I don't like the idea of switching to the 4-3
Reasons
1.Doom can’t play the 1st 2 downs
2.Switching schemes again= no consistency
3.Look a the dominant defenses i.e. Balt., Pitt., and I hate to say it but SD
all run the 3-4
4. We already have the base of a 3-4 defense we just need to add better d-line and maybe a corner and safety
PS I don’t want Albert Haynesworth he’s another headache
by VR92 on Dec 23, 2010 5:14 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
1. If he can’t play the first 2 downs in a 4-3, he can’t do it in the 3-4 either. He is not a pass defender, so playing OLB is almost pointless.
2. We were better in a 4-3, and the only consistent thing right now is that we are terrible.
3. The Bears have one of the most dominant D’s in the league, run a 4-3. Same with Minnesota, New York Giants, and some of the other better defenses. 3-4 does not equal dominant, but I would agree, some of the best come from the 3-4.
4. We do not have the base of a 3-4. We have no nose tackle, and we have no defensive ends that are of starting caliber in the league. We also only have one pure pass rusher
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 5:37 PM MST up reply actions
Dumervil won't be able to play DE...
At 248 it will be difficult for him to be an every down DE in a 4-3… Running around slower OT is his specialty.. On run down he will not be able to hold the point of attack against a 330lb LT… In a 3-4 he is protected by the larger DE with 2 gap responsibilities. IN a 4-3 the LT will always know where he is….
by Mike Riley322 on Dec 23, 2010 6:31 PM MST up reply actions
Yes, but...
They are better against the run. Although size is a big deal, small doesn’t always = bad against the rush. For some reason, Doom isn’t good against the run as a down lineman, but other guys of similar stature are.
Also, for years they’ve had Bob Sanders to come in and essentially function as a fourth LB. We never had that with the 4-3, and I don’t think we do now (Dawkins aged too much this year).
The bad thing about doing nothing is that when you get tired, you can't stop and rest.
Mathis is... But he line up over the RT.... Freeney is 270lbs... 30lbs is a huge difference
by Mike Riley322 on Dec 23, 2010 8:38 PM MST up reply actions
30?
Closer to 20
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 9:03 PM MST up reply actions
Doesn't matter.
With Manning at Q, how often (comparatively) does Freeney have to defend against the run? His offense forces their opposing offense into passing from behind so often that I would consider Freeney a product of his environment more than anything.
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by THolt on Dec 23, 2010 11:55 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
cause you know that stopped him his first 3 years!
Dear Santa- All I want for Christmas is a Stud NT and David Harris- Thank you!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Dec 24, 2010 2:28 AM MST up reply actions
But we have 4 solid LBs in the 3-4
Mays, DJ(yes I called him solid), Ayers, and Doom. They all(with maybe an exception of Ayers) play their best in the 3-4 if we get 3 D-lineman that can play worth a lick they can all maximize their potential in the 3-4 not the 4-3
ILB
DJ is best if we cut or trade him! DJ is by far the weakest and least productive LB on the team!
DJ tackles
Have u studied his tackles majority are for 8yds or more and the unbelievable number of times he misses a tackle. The reason he has so many tackles is because teams no they can run at him and right over him. Ask the Raiders who the game planned for! It was DJ.
DJ is by far the weakest and least productive LB on the team!
how so? opinion cause dude above me states fact!
Dear Santa- All I want for Christmas is a Stud NT and David Harris- Thank you!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
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by Jon Tollerud on Dec 24, 2010 2:29 AM MST up reply actions
You can look at his stats
He was up and down in the 4-3. I don’t know if that was because of injuries but he has been more consistent in the 3-4 with season of 122 tackles and this season with 112 and more to come
We have terrible 3-4 LBs
Doom is the only one worth mentioning, really.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 9:04 PM MST up reply actions
We have terrible 4-3 backers too...
I dont understand how we switch to a 4-3 when we paid Doom $60 million after 17 sacks in the 3-4? The problem with our 3-4 isnt only our D-Line (while I agree it can be improved) it is the horrible tackling of our LB core. The 3-4 is designed to have the D-line take up blockers and let the LBs run to the ball. Mario Haggan and DJ Williams have done a horrible job making plays in the run game. You look at his 100+ tackles…how many of those are play-making tackles (tackles for loss, critical stops, stuffs)? …Very few is the answer. The 3-4 is designed to stop the run because you have better gap integrity, when you look at the top ranked run defenses in the NFL, 7 of the top 10 are 3-4 defenses….we have to start from scratch to go to a 4-3 (Hence your mock drafting 2 LBs, signing numerous FA D-Lineman) why not just build off of the core we currently have in place for the 3-4?
Thats why I like Mays so much He blows people up and his a sure tackler
I’m hoping he can improve in coverage
Good post man..
I would play Mays and get David Harris. I am off the DJ bandwagon BIG TIME. He is slow, undisciplined and inconsistent.
Cant have that as an ILB in a 3-4 front.
Put Mays and Harris in, Doom and Ayers at OLB, and rotate Hunter and Haggans and we look pretty good.
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"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
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I disagree...Ayers is very good and will continue to grow so I dont think that is the truth at all.
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
This is a great writeup Sayre - having said that, I disagree on two of your points...
1. The reason that Doom can play on the first two downs in the 3-4 as opposed to the 4-3 has to do with both positioning and the player blocking him. In the 4-3, he is shading the outside of a tackle (who is bigger than a guard/center) and within 6-inches of his reach. The tackle can get him right away and manhandle him since he is often giving up over 60 lbs.
However, in the 3-4, he is a few yards off of the ball and (usually…unless they are shading) outside of the tackle. When the run comes straight at him, he is just as likely to be blocked by a TE or a FB as the T (usually giving him the size advantage). Also, if the tackle does come for him, the few yards of space that he has allows him to use his quickness to counteract the other man’s size.
I’ve seen a few games from when we ran the 4-3 recently, and Doom is pretty bad against the run. He’s above adequate in the 3-4. Based on that (and his superior pass-rushing out of the 3-4 instead of just good pass-rushing in the 4-3), I can’t see us making the change unless we trade him. We’re paying him Michael Strahan type money, but in the 4-3 he’s only half of Michael Strahan.
2. We were a bit better in the 4-3, but not by much. Also, in the past 8 years or so, we’ve had two incredible runs by our defenses – the year with Coyer when we blitzed everyone on every down (worked until PIT figured it out) and the first six games last year. I think the reality is that we’re equally bad in either front b/c we have no foundational personnel to run either.
Points 3 and 4 are airtight.
The bad thing about doing nothing is that when you get tired, you can't stop and rest.
Great job Maximus!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Could he play a Lawrence Taylor type of role?
Taylor didn’t do much pass coverage, either. He mainly played pure disrupter.
Kevin Vickerson?
Sayre I enjoy your mocks quite a bit, but I think your wrong here. We have some pieces and it would be counter productive to scrap the 34 front. Robert Ayers may not be a double digit sack guy but he can be a 6 to 8 a year guy. Dumervil is great in a 43, but he is elite in a 34. His run defense will be suspect in the 43 while in the 34 he was an average run defender with the worst 34 defensive line in the league. If you put a Kevin Vickerson or Marcell Dareus/Nick Fairley that improves our run and pass defense. Nosetackle is a problem, but if we sign Paul Soliai that is solved. If not we draft a nosetackle and prepare him behind Jamaal Williams. Your argument about NY, Minnesota and Chicago is irrelevant. We are not them we don’t have their pieces. That being said we are not the steelers, ravens, or chargers. But the word is, a good defensive coordinator (Ron Rivera, Mike Nolan, Rob Ryan, Eric Mangini, Wade Phillips) the 34 masks talent defficiencies. Look at the chargers who honestly thought they would have a top 20 defense let alone the #1 defense in the NFL? I will be first to admit I didn’t. Thoughts?
by Jake Edmisten on Dec 24, 2010 12:54 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Asked in a different thread
Are there any nose tackles that have the potential to be dominate. I have not come up with any, although I do not follow college ball closely. J Williams is not an answer.
Also remember that Big Vick has some NT experience and could play there as well.
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
I think we would need better d-line in a 4-3 also it is inevitable
I love Doom but hes just too small to play 1st and 2nd. He would act as a Pass Rush Specialist just as he did in the Shanny years
I like the FA's besides Albert Haynesworth but...
but I think we should build on our 3-4 personally. Also I think that PATRICK PETERSON, CB / S, L.S.U. is the pick hands down.
from nfldraftcountdown.com
This would probably be the dream scenario because L.S.U.’s Patrick Peterson actually plays cornerback in college but there are many scouts who feel his best fit at the next level will come inside at safety. Peterson is quite the physical specimen, checking in at 6-1 and 222 pounds with 4.4 speed and elite athleticism. Not only is Peterson an impact playmaker in coverage but he is also extremely physical in run support and a standout return man to boot. Patrick Peterson | L.S.U. Tigers Regardless of whether Peterson lined up at corner or safety he would represent a major upgrade!
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
we didnt trade the 2010 first round pick for cutler
We traded our pick which was lower than the bears because we finished with the better record!!
WE WILL MOVE ON!!
by milehighhitter505 on Dec 23, 2010 5:25 PM MST via mobile reply actions
We actually did trade it
We traded it to the 49ers
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 5:34 PM MST up reply actions
Oh Ya!
Sorry sir
WE WILL MOVE ON!!
by milehighhitter505 on Dec 23, 2010 6:11 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
With Champ being GONE, Peterson or Amukamara has to be the pick.
We only have Vaughn and Thompson along with vets Jones and Goodman.
Aga old agument, DL make the DB betteer or does the DB make the DL better?
With the quick passing game of today, you NEED excellent corners for 1-on-1 and jamming.
I like it Sayre
1st of all thanks for putting together the timeline, very helpful.
4-3 makes sense
Doom has shown he can play DE and Ayers needs his hand in the dirt – IMO he would get destroyed inside even w/15lbs
I like Haynesworth here for sure
I think Champ is gone (hope not) if so they should consider a db later
love Rudolph
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."-Steve Prefontaine
Happy Christmas Sayre
It all looks good but I really think it’ll come down to dollars. If we are on the hook for Thomas,Tebow.Moreno,Ayers,Dumerville,Bailey,Haynesworth,DJ,Clady,Kuper,Harris and and second pick money for Fairley, you better be thinking Superbowl rather than 8-8 coz there are some serious dollars right there. Haynesworth? nah. Rather have some athletes than morbidly obese @#$%’s on $10,000 a down or whatever he works out at, probably more.
The Redskins owe him plenty of money
They are tied up. We could wait for him to be cut, but I think he could be a good add.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 5:38 PM MST up reply actions
Not saying that the squad you come up with isn't awesome.
I just wonder if any big free agents will move if its an un-capped year because I don’t see teams throwing long term deals around in the hope 2012 is capped again. No big deal, no incentive to move. If Fat Albert is a Bronco in 2011 then he is automatically the best DT in football. NQA
No Fat Albert
I like the idea of possibly switching back to the 4-3, but no way do I want Albert Haynesworth on our team. He has been a huge distraction in Washington and we’ve had enough distractions that the media has blown up. It’s time for us to rebuild quietly and under the radar. Time to see if players we currently have are going to play in the 4-3 rather than paying a ton of money to a guy who plays only for himself.
Love your work Sayer... but please no AH
oldcoachB
"The will to win, the desire to succeed, the urge to reach your full potential...
these are the keys that will unlock the door to personal excellence."
Sayre, Is Orton traded in this mock?
I didnt see him in the depth chart portion. I love the mock by the way and you know I have been waiting for another one. Even though this year was a bad one at least we are in prime position to get an elite defensive lineman and get this defense revamped.
"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things". (Philippians 4:8)
Yes
I projected a trade to Arizona
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 5:59 PM MST up reply actions
The key is the shortest way to success
Once the structure of the organization is set and in place, they will decide on one thing: keep the talented productive players we have and build from there. Gutting the team is not an option. The next coaching regime will be brought in to fit the identity of the organization, not the other way around. Meaning, we will not gut the team so that another scheme can be used. What you must remember is that success can be found in both the 3-4 and 4-3 schemes. The scheme is not the problem. It’s who is running the scheme and how much authority the person has to execute it.
Horsepower did a nice job on his recent post (it is a good well thought out post) with making a connection to the schemes we employ and coaches who could transition into them.
Right now, more of our personnel and identity lies within the 3-4 scheme. That will be the direction we will go. Anything less than that sets us back two to three years just to get the proper personnel to fit the scheme. This is why the structure of the organization is changing. It’s so that the identity of the team is found in the organization, not the coach. This type of organization allows you to have consistency each year with bringing in the right player personnel and coaches. The schemes don’t change.
To better grasps this structure is to think about the Steelers and Chargers. They lose coaches and players each year. However, the identities of their teams stay the same. The schemes stay virtually the same. This allows them to bring in player personnel and coaches consistent with the identity of the organization. When one great player and/or coach leaves, they have others ready to take over. This is the structure we are working towards.
I would agree
but our personnel is not tailor made for the 3-4. We do not have a true SILB, we do not have starting caliber DL (at all 3 positions), and we have ONE true pass rusher, and he’s got a torn pectoral and is accused of assault.
Do we really have a group tailored for the 3-4?
Not really.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 5:56 PM MST up reply actions
More than meets the eye
What you have to keep in mind is that changing a scheme is more than about adding and subtracting players. For two years, every defensive player on the roster has been taught, trained, skilled, and developed in the 3-4. When changing schemes you have to take in account the learning curve to do this. This is especially important to keep in mind when you talk about young players. A change automatically sets them back two years. It stunts their growth. Everything they’ve been taught, skills they’ve developed, the feel for the scheme, etc. goes down the drain. This is why a number of players end up being busts. Organizational decisions like that factor into it.
As a leader of the organization, you have a responsibility to put your players, coaches, and personnel department in the best position to succeed. That means identifying yours strengths and building upon them. Changing schemes can’t be taken lightly. Overall, the price to change the scheme is too steep.
by Denver West on Dec 23, 2010 6:26 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Do mean what we have seem for 2 years was the result of training?
For two years, every defensive player on the roster has been taught, trained, skilled, and developed in the 3-4.
God help us
Love the comment, but the everything is a fact.
You made me laugh in a good way with that comment!
Nevertheless, everything i’ve mentioned holds true. I’ll give you something else to chew on in addition.
All of the scouting and personnel departments have been reviewing players all year long geared towards the 3-4 defense. They are currently reviewing available player personnel for the up coming draft and free agency period for the 3-4 scheme. They aren’t going to change their direction for the new coaching regime. Remember, under this structure the coaches and players are being brought in to fit the identity of the organization, not the other way around. Too much has been invested to let the scheme go.
I agree that coaching staff are doing there homework now.
But if a 4-3 favoring coach is named, won’t he have a draft board and FA list of his own already? Doesn’t matter what our current staff are doing, the new guy will already have his guys lined up no? Personally I like the 3-4 but you have to have talent across the field at linebacker and I am underwhelmed by our guys. We are better there, but not really good enough.
Think of the structure of the organization, not the prior coaching staff
The decision to remain with the 3-4 has everything to do with the identity of the organization. They will not bring in a coaching regime that will require a complete rebuild. Bringing in a new scheme requires the rebuilding and structuring of players, coaches, and personnel members. What you’re not seeing is the time, energy, effort, resources, money, etc. it takes to pull this off.
When an organization is setup with the structure of the general manager operating separately from the coach, his responsibility is the organization. His job in tells keeping the identity and integrity of the team intact. This means the organization decides which schemes will be used for the deration of its existence, not the coach. All coaching candidates being brought in will have the 3-4 scheme as their main defense. The strength, survival, and well-being of the organization demands this is done.
by Denver West on Dec 23, 2010 7:38 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Just because we stick with a 3-4, if we did, does not mean that we won’t change schemes. Unless we hire Romeo Crennel, or some other person the chances are that we will change our 3-4 scheme which will require different personnel. This is going to be a problem unless we execute the same exact scheme we did last year. None of the coaches anyone has mentioned runs the same 3-4 McD was. In other words, a scheme change is inevitable.
Keeping this in mind
Mentioning the 3-4 is like mentioning the word "apple". Is there only one type of apple in existence? The answer is no. There are a number of varieties that exist and offer different qualities. It’s the same as the 3-4. Every team that runs the 3-4 has a different variation of it. At the end of the day, they are still 3-4 defenses. Will we have to add some player personnel to fit the new version of the 3-4 scheme? Yes we will. The key is we will be making "additions" and not rebuilding.
by Denver West on Dec 23, 2010 7:53 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That is not true
I think we have a better personnel group for 1 gap 3 – 4 instead of a 2 gap system we currently use.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
EXACTLY...thats why getting Wade Phillips as DC is a no brainer. Its precisely what he specializes in. Our players have always been a better fit for Phillip's scheme.
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Interesting thoughts Sayre
I really like Ron Rivera , Nick Fairley
I would rather sign Barry Cofield – younger and not a head case. Denver doesn’t need Haynesworth’s bad attitude.
I think Jimmy Smith would be a much better pick with our top pick in 2nd Round. Smith can be a great CB or maybe play some Safety. Andre Goodman is 32 and probably play only 1 more year. Perrish Cox is probably gone. CB much more important and Smith is a great CB with Size for the AFC West WR’s.
Not sure on the 4-3. I think if we added Nick Fairley and Barry Cofield at DE , that our Dline would be much improved in the 3-4.
I like Greg Jones but will he last til 15th pick in 2nd Round???
Getting Haynesworth will depend on our new regime
if they think they can handle a headache or 2, they’ll take him. If we have a McD like authority, I doubt it.
Of course once again an Iowa guy makes it into your mock ;p
I like this, although it would require relying on 2 rookies to start at LB for us. It’s a tall order, and even if we do switch I dont expect to see much improvement. Also, Doom had a great 07 year, but beyond that he didnt have much success in the 4-3, and I think its a justified concern of his ability to go back to the 4-3.
I wouldnt mind going back to the 4-3, but seriously beyond DJ and Ayers I dont see this scheme benefitting any other players greatly. I think it should come down to whichever the nect coach prefers
Yeah, it will definitley depend on the stones of the next guy who takes over
Personally, I hope we can handle a few head-cases. Not drug-dealers like Travis Henry, and not convicts, but a TO or Ochocinco here or there can’t be something we permanently shy away from.
I don’t think Dumervil fits a 4-3 any worse than the 3-4, because he can’t cover anybody. Vickerson played in a 4-3 in Tennessee, and Bannan could easily play DT in a 4-3. Our LB’s are the question mark, but there are some solid ones in the draft and we have four very high picks.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 5:58 PM MST up reply actions
Vickerson was a waiver guy and Bannan isn't anything worth writing home about
But what I meant was that people are saying we should switch to the 4-3 because our team is better fit for it, and I disagree
And I dont like Doom in the 4-3 because he’s not big enough to consistently have his hand in the dirt. If he doesnt get hurt he wont have the production there, unless they reduce his playing time, which is the last thing we wanna do (take our best D player off the field). I dont think he’d be garbage in the 4-3, but why move to a scheme that hurts our best player?
Ochocinco's just a loudmouth, nothing more.
Doesn’t even drink, for Chrissakes. T.O. however does have the potential to be a true distraction. Chad is simply a talented player with insecurities from coming from the Northwest.
I’m a Hawks fan, by the way. We all hate it out here, aside from the month and a half of summer we get, which is glorious.
Love the game, love the beer, love your team.
by THolt on Dec 24, 2010 2:09 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I like Chad Ocho
I believe he is not a bad guy he’s made out to be. He just loves to have fun and is a bit of goofball. I don’t get why NFL cracks down on TD celebrations so much. It’s like players are not allowed to have fun on the field and do something emotional and entertaining after an achievement that scoring a TD is. And this is what Chad is being vilified for quite a bit – he scores and he does something off the wall after that. And what’s the harm? Who or what is harmed?
just saw some interviews on Greg Jones
He seems like a true leader on the field, matter of fact they call him the heartbeat of MS defense. He can hold his own in an interview too. That is a good sign
"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things". (Philippians 4:8)
I like Jones
hard for me to say, considering I hate MSU
follow me on Twitter: @Sayre_Bedinger
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XBox LIVE gamer tag as suggested by XBox: SoppiestKibbles
yep....that's for real
by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 23, 2010 5:59 PM MST up reply actions
Very Nice work
The only thing I see not covered the way I would hope is OL. I think we need more quality backups than we have and I would like to see someone push Kuper for playing time
Sayre...
I agree with your assessment and criticism that the Broncos have been aggressive in filling “temporary needs rather than use all of the picks to build for the future.” So wouldn’t trading a draft pick for someone like Haynesworth be a continuation of this flawed approach to roster building?
KO for a 3rd rounder?
slam dunk win
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."-Steve Prefontaine
sorry meant for JS below ;-)
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."-Steve Prefontaine
Wow
Looking at those trades you can make a solid arguement that Denver didnt “win” 1 single trade.
Its anchorman not anchorlady. And that is a scientific FACT!
KO for a 3rd rounder?
slam dunk win
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."-Steve Prefontaine
Roster
HaynesWORTHLESS! No way! He will kick somebody get fined get suspended, quit, walk out, give up, cry, or just suck! Trade DJ, keep Champ for sure. Love Fairly, Dawkins retires, CB in Second round, very deep draft for DB, still need a saftey in FA or Draft. 4-3, 3-4 depends on DC and HC and personell, picked up. Now that we have decided that we must go with the Tebow experiment to sell tickets it will cost us Ortons trade value, because all anyone will remember is last two games and benching. WE BLEW IT THERE! Hope it is worth the hot dogs……. NO TE in second round Wasted pick trade for one, maybe we can get Boss or someone but draft needs to focus on other needs! DT, DTor End, LB CB DE, S, FB, RB most likely in that order!
Rivera and Mularkey are my leading candidates for coach.
Not sure on the need to move to a 4-3 at this time, but my mind is open to entertaining the thought.
Any mock that doesn’t involve Prince to the Broncos is OK. Hagg is one of the players in the Huskers secondary that makes Amukamura look better than he is…..and he can be had a lot later in the draft.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I think Sayre has come up with a valuable post here and the reaction proves it.
This team needs clear direction from the coaching perspective because the personel do not dictate the defense we run. We are NFL playoff calibre nowhere across the front seven so the debate is moot until the DC is named. God I miss Romanowski, he let us play a 6-1.
Mad as a Hatter but the guy could make a play and he scared the crap out of people. Who does our D have that is scary? Get me some scary guys you draftniks.
nice job!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
thanks brutha! right back at you and yours man!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Rec this post mate.
He’s put some thought into it. I think a few more guys are leaving than he does but overall I like it. Cold There? He he. Be on the water in my budgie smugglers boxing day. I’ll have a Crownie for ya. Go the Dragons…………..
Have a good one mate!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Awesome Sayre!! Rather have the Stanford FB
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
by The 3 Amigos on Dec 23, 2010 7:11 PM MST via mobile reply actions
What abougt Stanley havili from USC. Kid is a beast!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Yeah boydy would take him at FB too!
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
by The 3 Amigos on Dec 23, 2010 11:18 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I dont think we need new tight ends, we do need help on the o line
I know we have limits but u would keep our oline just the way it is, that is why orton had two bad games…the oline was butter
nice work
Sayre, I can’t believe how much you and I think alike. I’ve been drooling over Fairley, especially since the Bama game where they couldn’t block him. It’s either him or Bowers, but I haven’t seen Bowers play much. Worst case scenario is Peterson, but I’m of the build from the inside out camp, so I would prefer DL before D backs. I’m not sure I like a TE in rd 2, but if we can get another second round pick (KO to Minn?), I wouldn’t mind it. I still think we need to keep adding to the DL or LB, so I would be looking there in rd2 as well. I think you could find a suitable TE in rd 3 or later. Not sold on Albert coming in, and I don’t think he would come here as a FA if Wash cut him. However, he would make a great space eater, and allow Doom or Ayers to get penetration in one on ones. Also like the Hagg pick, although if we could get Deunta Williams earlier, I might go that route. Overall, nice work, and I look forward t more mocks as the season winds down and we start the rebuilding process.
Problem with Haynesworth is $$$$$$
His contract is bigger then Bowlen may be able to take, even if he was willing. And oh yeah, he also appears to be a cancer and plays only in contract year.
If they do indeed decide to go with a true youth movement next year, I think a player like Haynesworth should be avoided… doesn’t seem like the kind of guy you want on a young and rebuilding team.
"Who says Tim Tebow can't throw the ball...? Whoever said that, they didn't know what they were talking about."
-Gus Johnson
Albert Haynesworth ~ Daryl Gardener
The situations are too much alike for me – even down to the face that they both played for the Redskins. I just don’t think we need a guy like that if we’re going to rebuild with young players. His influence would probably be just too counter-productive.
The bad thing about doing nothing is that when you get tired, you can't stop and rest.
Sayre,
Obviously I like the moves. I’m glad you are bold enough to go with Rudolph in the second. If we don’t land a TE through trade/free agency, it would be a no-brainer to pick Rudolph. Deangelo Williams would be awesome. I have always thought he was a great RB. Mike Pouncey is a player I am very tempted to take with our first second rounder. Not the biggest need on our roster but if he slipped a little, he would be hard to pass on.
Having said all of the problems that I have with the 4-3 in this post
You’ve still put together one heck of a front-7 in this writeup. It’s quite creative and solves our problems quickly. You should send this to Xanders…
Also, if we were to get Fairley and Greg Jones in the first two rounds, I think my head would explode from excitement.
The bad thing about doing nothing is that when you get tired, you can't stop and rest.
I hate the idea of a switch to the 4-3.
It would require a bigger switch of personnel then you make it out to be, and we get worse imo by switching Elvis, Ayers and Hunter back to DE. Doom’s a lot better at getting to the QB when he can move around more and get some distance, which the 3-4 allows. Ayers played VERY good this year before getting hurt, and I think when Elvis is back, and with another year under his belt it’ll really show.
He’s not a great pass rusher, but either was Suggs for like 4 or 5 years out of his career(never getting more then 8 or so off the top of my head), I think Ayers can be a very good OLB despite not being a double digit sack guy. Jason Hunter off the bench will provide a good spark.
Fairley or Dareus are the right pick imo, and I hope we end up with the best of the two. Either can be a very good 3-4 end imo, much like Richard Seymour imo. They’d also make Ayers and Dumervil that much better because we’d actually have a real 3-4 end. That to me is more impactful then either inside and switching our whole scheme again.
You guys could easily put Doom in a LEO like we do with Clemons in our 4-3.
Gets the spacing right without sacrificing run stop ability. And, because you have a lockdown in Champ, the pass defense wouldn’t be nearly as disrupted by what is tabtamount to blitzing one plus four.
Love the game, love the beer, love your team.
by THolt on Dec 24, 2010 3:17 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
*Tantamount. Damn phone.
Love the game, love the beer, love your team.
by THolt on Dec 24, 2010 3:18 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
No switch to 4-3...
So you want to put Doom at 240lbs on one end and guarantee he gets blocked by tackles every down (run and pass) and Ayers on the other end where he gets blocked by tackles every down (with only 1.5 career sacks against TEs, RB, and Tackles in the 3-4)? Not only are we susceptible in the run game having an undersized front but now our pass rush only gets worse because Ayers cant even rush the passer with the advantage of doing it against RBs and TEs.
I would prefer we stick with the 3-4…I like the idea of having Ayers add weight and possibly play the 5 technique. He is stout enough against the run to hold up with his hand on the ground. Draft Bowers from Clemson to come of the edge opposite of Elvis and like you said in the post, this is a deep draft for D-Lineman, get additional help in the 2nd and 3rd round. I like the idea of adding Greg Jones, he is a lot like Jerrod Mayo who is doing a great job in the Pats 3-4 (160 tackles). We need a true leader in the mold of Al Wilson and he seems like he might be able to fit that mold.
Ayers to the inside
I really like this idea. It seems to me that he could add a few pounds to his frame, and move to DE. He is basically playing that position anyway while we rush four. He might even fit at DT.
He looks to be better with the bull rush than anything else, and excelled against the run – - could be a natural fit. We could pick up an additional OLB instead of a DL, and let Ayers collapse the pocket all game long. I think I remember Keith Traylor making a move like that and adding years to his career.
if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all. - -Shakespeare
Would you still draft Kyle Rudolph if we grabbed Mercedes Lewis from FA?
I think it would still be great to have both but might be overkill especially if we can’t figure out how to utilize them like NE has done.
I really don’t think Gaff will be a Bronco next year (at least I hope we let him go). I’m glad you have Dan Graham being released.
I love most of the picks but I would rather get some heavier LBs than Bruce Carter. Seems a little light (like Woodyard). I would also rather use that 3rd round pick and pick up another good DE/DT since this is such a deep draft for them.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
Sayre, while I don't agree with a lot of this post I had to rec'd it just for the sheer breakdown of the player aquisitions and draft pick trades made by the McD regime.
I am astounded and utterly saddened by what we lost out on from these trades. It really seems like we squandered so much in that first year and even part of the second. To think we traded away picks instead of picking talents like
Mike Wallace
Johnny Knox
Earl Thomas
Aaron Hernandez
and instead gave away picks to bring in mega talents like
Alphonso Smith
Russ Hochstein
Lekevin Smith
Seth Olsen
Richard Quinn
Laurence Maroney
We did better with our second year draft picks but still the picks we gave up for Maroney, B.Quinn (along with giving up Hillis), Le Kevin Smith and Russ Hochstein could have gotten us even more. Who knows if our Defense (or offensive line) would be as terrible if we could have those picks back and use them.
It is a travesty that so much was wasted. I hope our next GM (or Xanders if given personnel control) and coach can get it right where McD failed.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Dec 23, 2010 10:59 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Happens to every team
Every team misses, that’s the nature of draft.
true but if we had a good GM and all those picks we may have missed much less. Alot of the misses weren't draft related either they were FA misses. Still, I would rather have the picks back than Maroney, Hochstein and The Kevin.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Dec 27, 2010 5:20 PM MST up reply actions
Ugh...no thanks to blowing up the defense
And no thanks to drafting a TE in the 2nd
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
No I'm not
There are a handful of starters that need to go.
The rest just need to be used properly…Nolan had us doing the right stuff the first 6 games he was our DC. Aggressive and upredictable. That plays into the strengths of our guys a lot.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
He also seemed to be using them improperly for the last 10
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Dec 27, 2010 5:21 PM MST up reply actions
Just pick a a scheme and stick with it.
Rebuilding our defense from the defensive coordinator on down and then asking the players to do something they’re not used to doing is, IMHO, the number one reason we stink defensively. The number two reason is our drafting. I hope the new regime changes that.
Some people got nothing to be angry about so they're angry about nothing. - Doug Stanhope
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. - Thomas Jefferson
by MrFNSunshine on Dec 24, 2010 6:22 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Fun
This is more fun than watching the Games. I’m amazed Sayre and others can always come up with a bunch of exciting picks. Albert would be our best lineman, but he’s a prima donna. If our coaches use tact they can probably get something out of him. Pissing him off before the season starts probably is not theway to go. Benching him might not be either
Love it Sayre!
The only thing that would worry me is Big AL. But the draft is solid. I am also on the KYLE RUDOLPH bandwagon. Kid has got some very impressive skills. Plus for me Fairley has to be our pick.
"just win Baby"....... unless you draft jamarcus russell
Great post Sayre!
Rec’d
I don’t know about the 2nd pick for a TE – Lord knows we need a good one in the worst way, and I’m also squemish about fat albert, but you bring up some good points.
I think once we have the FO and coaches in place, we’ll all have a better idea of the direction we’re headed.
First few picks need to be for defensive studs regardless.
Sorry, but I think this is a waste of an article, and a waste of a draft analysis.
Why look for defensive players that best fit the 4/3 when we do not even know if the switch is going to or should be made? I do not think that a switch to the 4/3 will make our defense any better. I think we need a coach that has a better grip on the nuances of the 3/4 -5/2 defensive scheme. An effective 3/4 defense is hard to diagnose, and even harder to game-plan for.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
What are you talking about????????
Using your logic, why should we look for players who fit a 3-4 when we don’t even know if we will run a 3-4 with the next coach.
Oh, I dont know...Just because we already run the 3/4 and uh,,,,,ya know it is a pretty darn good scheme.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
by BroncoRick69 on Dec 25, 2010 5:31 PM MST up reply actions
Great research Sayre
I’ll have to study this for a while. I am high on the Fairley pick though.
We conquered this territory with our bodies and souls, then we watered it with our tears.
Go Denver!
Fairley
He looks like a solid player, but I saw a couple (really) cheap hits in the Georgia game this year, and I would rather pass on that character. Don’t need someone who will be drawing personal fouls at the least (usually at critical times), or someone who’ll decide to stomp heads at the worst. You can say character doesn’t win games, but it sure can lose them.
D line
This is all Shanahans fault
Why did he ever release Monsanto Pope, Mario Fatafehi and Dorset Davis….
by guatemalan bronco on Dec 24, 2010 11:10 AM MST reply actions
Sayre..great research and opinions as always.
Please no Albert. We all know that Champ is GONE. Two reasons, he wants out and has made it clear, and second, Denver can not afford $13m to one player because Bowlen will be cash strapped in 2011.
Also I do not see the over 30 DB gang being here. Dawkins retire or should, Goodman injuries and Hill, well enough said.
With that being said Patrick Peterson is the slamdump #2 pick. Nick Fairley would be big but not as big as Peterson, rare talent.
Bronco big board probably will look like Luck, Perterson, Fairley, Amukamara, Dareus
Hey Sayre, what do you think of Martez Wilson SILB Ill. I know little of him but he LOOKS better that Jones (IMO).
i like and don't like.
i love the move to a 4-3, i love the Nick Fairly pick up as well as the pick up of albert Haynesworth.
I would love to pick up Lewis from the Jags i believe we need to cut our ties with Graham and see what we can get for him even if its for a 6th rounder, he drops too many balls.
I’m excited to see White come back next year and be the smash and dash we’ve been missing.
What scares me is we are putting alot of eggs in one basket as far as keeping Champ.
I would start Haggan and Mays over the two rooks.
Nice Mock
However, I would prefer to pick up a FA TE, and use that pick on maybe Jimmy Smith or Rahim Moore. Im not crazy about Haynsworth, instead of the trade there maybe draft a guy like Marvin Austin if he falls. Regardless I think our first 4 picks should be defense

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