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Denver D in 2011

Denver needs to face the facts this team in no way shape or form should be running a 3-4 defense we just dont have the horses nor can we aquire it thru free agency or the draft. Dominant NT's are never available and if you draft one dont expect him to be dominant as a rookie. Jamal Williams is not effective and its time for him to hang up his cleats he just does not demanding the double teams needed to keep the hogs off of Dj. Next we have the OLb's Dumervil and Ayers are converted DE's they just dont belong in a stand up position. They both dont have the coverage skills and Ayers doesnt have the same effectiveness as a pass rusher from that position, most of his pressure and sacks have come from stunts where he lines up as a interior D lineman. Elvis may not lead the NFL in sacks from this spot but he has shown he can still wreak havoc from this position plus we wont have the coverage problems we have in the 3-4. Linebackers of course we have Dj to play the mike even though his natural position is a weak side LB but he is the most competant until we draft a real field general. the Will goes to Woodyard this guy is a playmaker and did a great job here as a rookie and has the speed and size needed for this position. Sam backer goes to haggan or mays both have shown they can play in this league neither are elite talents but they both play with a ton of heart. DT's this is where we upgrade thru free agency or the draft with a top 5 pick we can draft an impact player here who can start from day one. The other tackle could be Bannan or Marcus Thomas both belong in a 4-3 and both have high motors and can get penetration which is crucial in this defense. If somehow we can get Haynesworth then he goes here, but I really dont see that happening. Now I hate to say it but champ is as good as gone, but the good news is we have some nice young talent here with Sydquan and Cox and we still have goodman who is slipping but still a solid B player. Nate Jones is dogsh*t and needs to go. At safety Hill and BDawk gotta go they are our biggest weakness this year IMO its time for Mcbath and Bruton to step up and man the positions they were drafted to play, they both are studs on ST's so I know they are players. I also see us bringing in a FA here as well. This isnt the ravens D but I think we can go to war with this for a year considering what we have and understanding that free agency is not a cure all and that rookies rarely are ready to make an impact year one. In the draft we have gotta take the best DT available with our 1st and somehow come away with the next Al Wilson for the future with one of our 2nd rd picks. This is how I see us lineing up on D in 2011 DL Dumervil, Bannon, 1st pick, Ayers LB Woodyard, Dj, Mays/Haggan CB Cox/Sydquan, Goodman SS Bruton, FS Mcbath, FA I dont think we have a choice but to move to a 4-3 everbody wants to run a 3-4 because its possibilities to disguise blitzes and coverages but it just doesnt work if you dont have the hosses up front to eat up blocks and allow the LBs to use there speed. No team lets these guys go to free agency, and if they do there is usually a huge injury or charcter issue and you have to pay top dollar for them. When it comes to drafting most these dominant college ends weigh 265-275 and that just dont cut it for a 5 tech DE. You gotta have man strength to play any of these 3 positions and you just dont have that at 22-23 yrs old. Hopefully we can nab 1 or 2 defensive gems out of FA but I wouldnt count on it Thanks for reading!

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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I wrote this from my phone so I apologize for the format

by DungBeadles on Dec 28, 2010 2:19 AM MST reply actions  

Good...I was about to jump all over your ass. lol j/k

I too am in favor of switching over the 4-3…I found in a recent post that about 60% of the MHR community is open to the idea. Then again, when your defense is this bad most will be open to any idea. lol I vote hiring 11 girl scouts and let them play defense for us…ouch!

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The artist formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Dec 28, 2010 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Interesting thoughts.

I am not sure about switching defenses – again.

Continuity is what this team needs right now. We actually do have the size now on defense to run the 3-4. Doom was never as effective as he was last season after he made the switch to OLB. I don’t want to take that away from him or the defense. Ayers is fine at the other OLB spot.

Those two have great synergy when they are on the field together, with Ayers being the run stuffer / pocket collapser and Doom being the patriot missle with a laser lock on the quarterback / backfield. We need a stud DE, or NT. I agree, they don’t grow on trees. I would love to see us take Nick Fairley. I know he is a 4-3 DT, but all the reports say he would be just fine as a DE in a 3-4. I read a few different reports on him and the average height has him at 6’5 and his weight between 298 – 305.

He isn’t as big as Haloti Ngata, but I could see him having a similar impact with our defense. A penetrating DE that also isn’t too bad against the run. Having said that, now the question becomes who do we line up at NT. Just some things I’ve been mulling over.

It's better to live one day as a lion than a thousand years as a lamb.

by grind_core on Dec 28, 2010 3:51 AM MST reply actions   3 recs

Yes brotha - you hit it on the head, once again, as always

We need to stop this musical chairs crap, and settle in on a D here in Denver. If we could hire a great, D minded head coach, I’m all for giving Wink another go-round. It’s not like Wink has had alot to work with this year – a bunch of backups and injured vets.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Dec 28, 2010 11:14 AM MST up reply actions  

They actually called me at one point.

But I had to pass, I had to clean up dog sh** in the yard that day.

It's better to live one day as a lion than a thousand years as a lamb.

by grind_core on Dec 28, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree with that g_core

There are a few FA’s coming up that we should try to target. Here is a list of some of the 3-4 DT’s that will be available. Personally, I like the first three.

Haloti Ngata, BAL
Aubrayo Franklin, SF
Johnny Jolly, GB
Chris Hoke, PIT
Travis Johnson, SD
Cullen Jenkins, GB
Ray McDonald, SF
Ron Edwards, KC
Paul Soliai, MIA
Robaire Smith, CLE
John McCargo, BUF
Bryan Robinson, ARI
Gabe Watson, ARI
Alan Branch, ARI

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Dec 28, 2010 7:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh man,

I didn’t know Ngata was a FA. The thought just gave me chills. How awesome would that be, take Fairley and then sign Ngata. I seriously doubt he will get out of Baltimore, though.

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Dec 28, 2010 8:55 PM MST up reply actions  

That is why I've been thinking Aubreyo Franklin

and Takeo Spikes both.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Dec 28, 2010 9:47 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not sure

The draft isn’t my thing. I will just wait and see what we get. Fairley seems to be a popular choice. I’ve only watched one game with him and Dareus? Jeremy, Sayre and EJ will be ramping up their likely candidates for the draft. I look forward to seeing their evaluations.
The only thing I’ll be contributing is a signed Ball cap for Draftivus.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Dec 29, 2010 12:23 AM MST up reply actions  

thoughts re: grind_core's post

I’ve been repeatedly trying to make the point you make above but it often seems to fall upon deaf ears.

I’m very resistant to the idea of blaming the scheme itself for our problems. This seems to be recurring theme of late (actually, going all the way back to firing Greg Robinson at the end of the 2000 season). There was justification for rebuilding the defense in 2009 at the beginning of the McDaniels era because our defense has fallen into such disrepair that there was nothing left to preserve, but we’re not in the same situation now. Moreover, as most people have noted, we’ve yet to draft a compliment of front seven players suitable for the 3-4, so the rebuilding of the defense is still incomplete.

Blowing the defense up every year, or so, is the pattern that perpetual rebuilding teams fall into — to their own disservice. At best, it may work eventually for the simple reason that it yields an enormous bounty of high draft picks that are used re-populate the defense with stellar talent. But this strategy artificially depresses team performance for prolonged periods in order to reap that bounty of high picks and it also misuses and wastes talent.

There is no shortcut to rebuilding and the ‘blow it up’ attitude seems to be an impatient response to the necessities of rebuilding rather than a pure football perspective. The same conditions that are being used to justify blowing up the defense could just as easily be used to argue for building up the defense. And it’s quite clear that the building up approach has yet to be tried in full form, unless you somehow consider the last two crops of inexpensive FAs to be a rebuilding.

At this point we don’t know exactly who will be available in the draft (we will after Jan. 20th), but it’s shaping us as a terrific year to be looking for DE34s. It’’s also a good year for CBs. Considering how poorly we did in sacks and interceptions, it’s surprising that the idea of building up the DL while concomitantly building up the DBs isn’t more popular. What people tend to misunderstand is how non-linear unit performance is, which is because of the weakest link dynamic that causes breakdowns that make everybody look bad. Impact players such as Peterson or Fairley can have a sudden effect on defensive performance when combined with the return of players such as Dumervil. There’s a lot of possibilities for upgrading our team with our high draft picks + FAs. And I wouldn’t want to underestimate the value of adding LBs who can cover, besides adding pass rush ability besides what Dumervil contributes. Filling leaks can have a dramatic effect on defensive performance.

"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics

by Colinski on Dec 29, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions  

Jamal Williams hasn't played that horrible this season.

He is recovering from a severe injury and started out slow but is doing better. I think we will see when Doom comes back from the same injury he will come back a little slow too and he is a lot younger than Jamal.
I would like to see Denver trade Royal for Haynesworth and go back to a 4-3 with Williams and Haynesworth at DT and Vickersonat one DE and Ayers and Doom spliting time at the other DE. Then draft Greg Jones (ILB Michigan) and put him in at MLB with DJ and Woodward at OLB.
Most IMPORTANT, SIGN CHAMP!

Kansas Bob

by kansas bob on Dec 28, 2010 7:48 AM MST reply actions  

I would agree jamal hasnt played terrible but he is far from dominant, I would be fine with losing royal for haynesworth that would be ideal. I do agree I hope champ decides he wants to finish his career in Denver it would be huge if we lost him

by DungBeadles on Dec 28, 2010 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

I keep trying to figure out why people want Haynesworth here? He hasn’t done anything in the last couple of years.

Most people are running around - umbilical cord in hand - looking for a new place to plug in

by SSMT on Dec 28, 2010 10:13 AM MST up reply actions  

Amen bro

When Fat Albert is at the top of his game, few can match his dominance, but, he’s never at the top of his game anymore. I say let’s keep the 3-4 (Doom, Doom, Doom) and draft accordingly in the Spring.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Dec 28, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions  

Not no but HELL no.

It's better to live one day as a lion than a thousand years as a lamb.

by grind_core on Dec 28, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Define dominant DB

He takes on two and three guys every play. That is what he is supposed to do. He also has 44 Combined tackles which isn’t far off from his last full season. Take a look here.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Dec 28, 2010 7:32 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah, um , no...

Albert Haynesworth can FRY in Hell – he is the polar opposite of Tim Tebow – don’t need him, don’t want him – never will!

by Tebow-licious on Dec 28, 2010 7:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Disagree

4-3 linemen need to be quick and smaller except for one of the tackles—in the mold of the Indianapolis Colts’ and New York Giants’ front four. A front four of Haynesworth, Williams, Vickerson, and Doom/Ayers would be slower than molasses.

No thank you.

by RSH089 on Dec 28, 2010 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Your formula is easier said then done

If you wanna talk about drafting players, come here with a couple of names or something, not just “best DT in the draft” or “next Al Wilson”. I could just as easily say we need to draft the next Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, James Harrison, Richard Seymour and then we’ll be fine. You make the draft seem way too simple there, and clearly don’t understand how it works.

On to your 4-3 idea, I don’t like it. We are currently as far away from a good 4-3 as a good 3-4. Plus, look at at the prospects of our 4-3 LB’s, besides DJ, we have no one, and I mean no one, to start at 4-3 LB. I don’t really like Doom in the 4-3 either, as he will just get hurt having his hand in the dirt, and his run stopping abilities from DE as opposed to OLB are far far worse (Doom showed up against the run in 09 towards the end of the year).

Disagree on Dawk, he hasn’t been as consistent as I’d like but he has been one of the best on a crappy D. If he goes I won’t shed a tear but in all honesty I can’t say he’s been our worst. Look at the D’s numbers when he’s in and out, night and day.

by DBroncs1414 on Dec 28, 2010 10:07 AM MST reply actions  

 Just because I didnt give you a name to draft doesnt meen I dont know how the draft works, when you are projected to have the 2nd pick in the draft and carolina is in need of a qb it would be pretty hard to miss. But if you want names its a little too early at this point ask me after the bowl season and the combine. When its comes to the next Al Wilson there is no next anybody I was just trying to say we need a bad ass MLB and he was the last one we had here IMO. I would agree with you that we are as far away from a good 34 as we are a good 43 defense my point is that it is more difficult to get the players for a 34 and I think that two of our best defenders are playing out of there natural positions Dumervil is still dominant from the LOS and Ayers was a great De in college

by DungBeadles on Dec 28, 2010 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Putting McBath in is great in theory. Only one problem: the guy is never healthy.

I’m against the switch to a 3-4 just because I feel like yet another change is not the solution. I’m for bringing in a good, proven D-coord (W. Phillips) and get his take on it. We need a pash rush and Doom obviously is one of the best and seems to thrive in the 3-4. I’m for a more aggressive 3-4 scheme.

Most people are running around - umbilical cord in hand - looking for a new place to plug in

by SSMT on Dec 28, 2010 10:20 AM MST reply actions  

agreed again

You have some good sense SSMT. I like McBath when healthy, but when is the dude actually healthy – never. We can and will do better.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Dec 28, 2010 11:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Question? How many passes has DJ Williams defensed this year?

His position is a need to be filled. So what he has over a 100 tackles, quarterbacks beat him constantly using TEs and RBs out of the backfield…Jamal has come on after his injury and has done a very good job in the middle. Fields needs to go. McBean has been a blimish and needs to go. That’s 3 areas this team needs to address in the F/A pr draft…DJ might have some trade value to 4/3 team, McBean probably cut material and J Williams stays one more year to mentor a younster…
Hill makes plays and then doesn’t so I out to lunch on him and BDawk may be gone but I think it will be his decision if it happens. Draft stud safety sometime in the draft to compete with McBath who has been injury prone. Bruton is making strides every game and should get better next year.

by bfree2bronc on Dec 28, 2010 11:12 AM MST reply actions  

NO WAY

There are numerous reasons we shouldn’t switch back to the 4-3:

1) Stability, there has been enough turnover on the defense for the last decade
2) Your point of saying Elvis is better with his hand in the ground has no basis. He had 17 sacks while standing up and Ayers is having trouble getting sacks now (being blocked by TEs and RB) his pass rush will disappear should he line up against tackles every time.
3) Our current LBs are far away from being a legitimate 4-3 LB core. DJ Williams might benefit by sliding back to Will but we dont have a true Sam and Mike backer on the roster.
4) We dont have a true 1 technique player, which is the same as not having a NT in the 4-3.
5) Putting Dumerville at DE makes him a $60million liability. When he was a 4-3 end we had the worst running defense in the NFL and a lot of teams ran at Doom because of his size.
6) Woodyard, Doom, Mays, McBath…you are talking about the smallest Defense in the NFL…which means we are going regress with our already horrendous run defense and get exposed on short yardage.

I honestly don’t think the problem on this defense is scheme but rather who is calling the plays. If we can get an experienced play caller in here who has years of 3-4 play calling experience, I truly believe we will see significant strides. Martinadale going from coaching LBs to game planning and calling plays was too much for him to handle. A lot of the times we were exposed wasnt because we were flat out punched in the face but rather out schemed. For example, TE and RB running wide open on playaction or weak side run plays where motioning a TE ruined our gap integrity and we didnt adjust (see: both Raiders games). A lot of those errors can be fixed with a decent coordinator that knows how to make adjustments and has been running the defense for years thus knows its strengths and weaknesses.

by Da1Truth on Dec 28, 2010 3:06 PM MST reply actions  

find the "difference maker"

Every great defense has a “difference maker” – and some of them have that guy at safety (Polamalu in Pittsburgh), some have that guy at linebacker (Clay Matthews in GB), and some have that guy on the D-line (Mario Williams in Hou)…I don’t care where he comes from but we NEED that guy – I LOVE Doom – but he is the guy who BENEFITS from “that guy”, the difference maker – get “that guy” and Doom will be ultra-dominant…sure how we can find that guy this year in the draft…need to load up on picks and draft heavy on defense

by Tebow-licious on Dec 28, 2010 7:57 PM MST reply actions  

This makes a metric ton of sense.

Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.

by grind_core on Dec 28, 2010 8:55 PM MST up reply actions  

No Way Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have as many guys suited to the 3-4 as we do to the 4-3, if not moreso. I say bring in a Wade Phillips or someone who understands his style of 3-4 to coach our guys up. I don’t think we need to go to the 4-3 but rather run the right KIND of 3-4. I don’t like the style of 3-4 we have been running, give me the aggressive, blitzing kind.

"Whatever it takes to get on the field, I'll do." Demaryus Thomas.

by Broncofan on Dec 28, 2010 10:13 PM MST reply actions  

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