Tim Tebow: How Legends Begin
by Tim Lynch on Dec 29, 2010 9:29 AM MST
in MHR Broncos History Lesson
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When I originally began writing this post, it was titled, "Where has the Mile High Magic Gone?". That was back in September and I shelved the post because I couldn't find an answer to the question posed in that title. Last weekend, Tim Tebow helped me find the answer. An answer so simple that it was easily overlooked as I tried to find a more complicated cause. The answer is belief. Belief in the magic. From the quarterback, to the rest of the players and, ultimately, to the fans.
Mile High Magic isn't some mystical aura that ensures the Broncos snatch victory from the clutches of defeat; no, it is people who believe that they will be led to victory. It takes a unique person to embody that belief within the minds of other players and fans. John Elway had that kind of effect on people and now, it appears, Tim Tebow may have that effect on people as well.
If you listen to the local Denver media, as well as the national media at large, you will notice plenty of downplaying of Tebow's performance last week. With good measure, two games is hardly the kind of measuring stick great players are made of, but I recall how the media treated Jay Cutler during his first few starts and I begin to wonder...Where was the magic during Cutler's five game rookie season?
Well, let's review the stats first.
| 2006 Jay Cutler Game Stats | |||||||||||
| Week | OPP. | OPP. Record |
Score | Comp | Att | Comp % |
Yards | TD | INT | Rush Yds |
Rush TD |
| 13 | SEA | 9-7 | L 20-23 | 10 | 21 | 47.6 | 143 | 2 | 2 | 10 | 0 |
| 14 | SD | 14-2 | L 20-48 | 17 | 30 | 56.7 | 188 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 15 | ARI | 5-11 | W 37-20 | 21 | 31 | 67.7 | 261 | 2 | 1 | 10 | 0 |
| 16 | CIN | 8-8 | W 24-23 | 12 | 23 | 52.2 | 179 | 2 | 1 | -1 | 0 |
| 17 | SF | 7-9 | L 23-26 | 21 | 32 | 65.6 | 230 | 1 | 1 | -1 | 0 |
| 2010 Tim Tebow Game Stats | |||||||||||
| Week | OPP. | OPP. Record |
Score | Comp | Att | Comp % |
Yards | TD | INT | Rush Yds |
Rush TD |
| 15 | OAK | 7-8 | L 23-39 | 8 | 16 | 50.0 | 138 | 1 | 0 | 78 | 1 |
| 16 | HOU | 5-10 | W 24-23 | 16 | 29 | 55.2 | 308 | 1 | 1 | 27 | 1 |
I don't know about you, but those are pretty wimpy stats. Actually, they are the kind of stats you'd expect from a rookie quarterback. There is more to this story, however, that cannot simply be explained away by statistical comparison. First, Tebow had his first boneheaded interception last week, but in the grand scheme of things, was it as boneheaded as Jay Cutler's first interception against the Seattle Seahawks? Yeah, you all probably recall that one. Cutler was about to get sacked, so he just chucked the ball up into the air where it was promptly plucked and returned for a touchdown.
I don't recall people hammering Cutler for it. We got the, "He's just doing what rookie do, he'll be fine". Of course, they were partly right as Cutler is a solid starting quarterback, if a bit of a head case. The point I am hammering at is that Tebow appears to have a large portion of the media that are reluctant to grade him the same way any other first round, first time starting, quarterback would be graded. This perplexes me.
The big thing that stats doesn't quite cover, and what the premise of this post is all about, is how certain personality types are able to inspire people to live up to their full potential. For example, whenever you see John Elway talk about how he was able to win so many games in the final minutes, you never see him talk about himself or what he did, rather you hear him talk about the other guys on his team. Elway may have been the reason the Broncos won, but it was because he was able to inspire his teammates to believe not only in his own ability, but their own ability. I saw something similar in Tebow and all it took for what I saw in him to become what his teammates see in him was to do what he did last weekend. To lead his team to victory.
Think back to the final five games of 2006 and remember how the Broncos blew a golden opportunity to walk into the wild card. I wouldn't blame the losses on Jay Cutler, but he led his team to those defeats when he had two opportunities to lead them to victory. He would do it again in 2008. Kyle Orton did it late in 2009 and again in 2010. It's not just the fans that can sense these things, the teammates of these quarterbacks sensed it too. The magic was gone because the man leading the charge didn't inspire it.
The magic never left the Mile High city; people just stopped believing in it. Last week, we got a taste of that magic and it tasted good. I have not felt that way since the AFC Divisional playoffs in 2005. Is this how Tebow's legend begins? Or will it be a blip, an anomaly on what will become a forgettable football career? Tim Tebow has surely gotten off on the right foot and a win this weekend will only help continue his rise to greatness. As a fan, I am certain of only one thing - I will never again lose hope during a game until that clock runs down to zero-zero.
Go Broncos!
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Comments
LOL - It is a little premature for this!
He has played 2 games. Let Tebow win 10 games in a season and then you can call him a good QB.
Hey man...it is a speculative piece. I believe I suggested as much...
Man I’m tired….baby is sick and I finally gave up on getting back to sleep at 3am.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
yikes
That’s the worst. Hope you’re getting some sleep today, man.
And wow, you nailed it. Magic = belief. So simple, so true. I want to believe.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions
no sleep....I enjoy punishment. :)
I did not enjoy my daughters re-enactment of a scene from the Exorcist last night. lmao
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
lmao
that happened to me once when my girl was 2, in the middle of the Philadelphia airport. : )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:10 PM MST up reply actions
ahahaha...
Go ahead TSA…do the full body rub down! Take the gloves off first. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
does all this vomit count as a liquid
cuz I don’t have a bag for it
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
Is this liquid on the "not allowed on the plane" list?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Belief my friend, belief!
Your mind is a powerful thing, if you believe in miracles, if you believe in the mile high magic, well then Tebow Time will believe in you.
by CyberSpartacus on Dec 29, 2010 8:20 AM MST up reply actions
You call Luck best in 30 years
to be available (possibly) in the draft. You are willing to go out on a limb to declare that about someone who hasn’t even touched an NFL field or been drafted or declared for the draft. Cut the kid a little slack, how did you feel about Cutler?
by tom3565 on Dec 29, 2010 8:46 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point. Forgot about Luck.
It’s that double standard that I am having trouble understanding. I THINK I saw the beginnings of Tebow’s Legend in the NFL last week….only time will tell if it was. At least I’m not parroting the words of Mel Kiper or Colin Cowherd. Right? lmao
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
it's just that trademark "MHR groupthink"
where we get criticized for having opinions that are not those of 90% of the national pundits.
Ugh.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 11:33 PM MST up reply actions
who was the last QB in denver to win 10 games in a season?
Give Tebow a break just because he hasnt won 10 games yet you say he sucks? so Cutler sucks 2 right? John Elway sucked 2 right? Wrong the point of this is Tim Tebow brought back the Mile High Magic!!! and came back in the 4th Quarter from 13 points down Kyle Orton cant do that Cutler didnt do that! Do you know who did Tim Tebow as a rookie!!!!!!!
GO BRONCOS Orange Crush 4ever
Mile High Magic...
i just had a revelation of what creates it, now don’t laugh but I think I’m on to something. Craig Morton had it, John Elway had it and I believe TT has it…. they are “alpha males”. All 3 of those dudes walk into a room full of guys and they immediately garner respect. Hard to define, but you know it when you see it. They don’t complain, refuse to let a look of lostness, or “woe is me” cross their face. When did you ever see any of them look defeated, or pout? 4th quarter comes around and those in the huddle believe they should win because they’ve got the guy with the biggest “boys” on the field on their side. Let’s face it, if you’re a guy reading this, you know exactly what I mean.
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 2:24 PM MST up reply actions
Nice summation.
And yes, it’s very easy to pick out those that are alphas and those that are not.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
"LOL" Well, did you wait for a 10 win season
before you called Cutler a god qB or even one that would become good??? Seriously, I am betting you did not wait for that. That was exactly his point in the post.
Good article
All the comments I have read about tthe stadium rocking during the game leads me to believe you are correct.
As to your last statement. All I can say is that never is a very long time ;)
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
Yeah poor choice of words there....
ADDENDUM: add “hope I” before the word “never” in the last statement.
There, that is more realistic of an expectation, right?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Reason for Tebow Critics
First, as a marketing professional I can appreciate Tebow’s critics, because just as everything thinks they know something about marketing, there are also a majority of fans who think they know everything about football (though few have played pee-wee, highschool, college or professional). Second, it’s Pareto’s 80/20 rule. 20% will lead, the other 80% will follow and mostly criticize and grumble while the 20% lead. But ask those critical to get off their duffs and lead, and they’ll quietly go back to the sidelines. There’s absolutely nothing to NOT like about this kid.
by peanutbutter on Dec 29, 2010 8:23 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
shoulda been "everyone"
First sentence. sorry bout that.
by peanutbutter on Dec 29, 2010 8:24 AM MST up reply actions
I don't know him
So I can’t like him. He seems through the media to be a fine young man. Also through the media I have heard (over and over….) that he has problems with his mechanics to an extent that most of those that (are supposed to) know think he will fail.
Charisma and Talent can take you a long way but…..I am with broncosfansd. I want to see him get a half season under his belt before I get too excited.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
Do you have any observations of Tebow beyond wha tthe media have said?
"We will be a physically and mentally tough football team. And it's not something you talk about, it's something you live your life with.’’
Will Muschamp, December 14, 2010
No, but that doesn't mean the media is wrong
When I watch Tebow, I don’t see Allpro quality QB play. His reads often seem stunted (too quickly looking to run and/or not keeping his eyes downfield while scrambling), and he throws an awful looking ball more often than what I typically expect out of a NFL superstar. At times his mechanical form breaks down, and I get really scared that someone is gonna come and knock the ball out, plus it hurts his accuracy and velocity… such mistakes don’t have to happen often, but those are often game changing plays… and could sink TT longterm.
That said, I could never believe how successful Bernie Kosar was… he had more wounded ducks than an Audobon Society rescue center… yet had he not played against the GOAT QB, he would’ve taken his team to the SB twice. He was a consistent pro-bowl caliber QB, even though he threw more bad looking passes than good ones. So TT can be very successful.
I’ve also been very impressed with the improvements TT has made since last year. His bad form is a breakdown now, not consistent. Combined with his great intangibles and and athletic attributes, his potential is huge. I’m very hopeful and excited that he could be great…
Close your eyes and tell me what you saw
300+ yards passing, 2 TD’s and a 17 point comeback. WHO CARES what he looks like doing it, as long as he keeps doing it.
I must admit...I too hope he starts to look prettier doing it.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
It's his foot work
He has shown good improvement on the throwing motion, but he is not planting his feet yet. Part of that is the poor line, part of that is rookie jitters, and part of it is Tebow’s natural playing style.
He just needs to keep working on it and the throws will get better. Look what Brady did to get better over the years. You telling me that Tebow is not going to work as hard as Brady?
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 9:42 AM MST up reply actions
love the last line
I think he’ll work harder…
Plus i like the monk hair cut much more than Brady’s current hair.
I could not give 2 shits...go look at some games from high school to now...he has a completely different action and its getting better. ANY of you that under rate the heart of a TRUE athlete just dont get it...Tebow is a freak and we should all be stoked!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
by boydy2669 on Dec 29, 2010 8:04 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
against a HORRID....
HOU pass defense. When he does it consistently, and against better teams in games that matter, I’ll be all aboard.
You hit the nail on the head when you said “as long as he keeps doing it.”
Quarterbacks who fared worse against a horrid Houston Defense.
Tony Romo
Eli Manning
Matt Cassell
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Mark Sanchez
Mike Vick
Joe Flaco
NFL defense regardless of how “bad” you want to label them.
by Jordo5150 on Dec 29, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions 8 recs
nice!
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 9:45 PM MST up reply actions
That statement about HOU pass defense is overrated and overused.
When Bradford put up 36 on Denver earlier in the season, we didn’t hear much about Broncos horrid defense as being the reason Bradford was a stud, did we?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Dec 29, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, here in Washington DC
we actually did say that a lot, probably because Washington’s pass DEF is in the same sorry state. Lots of QBs can light up the current Denver DEF… its not that big an accomplishment.
Tebow was only the 5th quarterback this season to put up 300 yds on that Horrid defense
"We will be a physically and mentally tough football team. And it's not something you talk about, it's something you live your life with.’’
Will Muschamp, December 14, 2010
by GoGators15 on Dec 29, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, they were so horrid that
Peyton Manning only put up 24 points against them in a Colts loss and one of his TD passes happened with only 41 seconds left in the game when the Colts were down by 17. The Texan defense was so bad Tennessee only scored ZERO points against em. Their defense was so horrid that both KC and the Raiders lost to the Texans. It is worth mentioning that the Texans had the number 10 ranked defense (103.5 YPG) against the run and we almost rang up 140 on em. Love him, hate him, or simply indifferent, Tebow brings passion and hunger to the Broncos, something Orton simply could not do. The scary thing is that Tebow is only going to keep learning and getting better. I have a lifetime ticket on the Bronco bandwagon and am enjoying the view with Tebow driving. Bronco football is BACK!!!!!
by Broncos15 on Dec 29, 2010 10:51 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I'll say again...
“as long as he keeps doing it.”
TT has too many obvious flaws for me declare victory at this point.
Those flaws may be inconsequential compared to his good things he brings to the table… but one good game against a relatively bad team doesn’t make me want to call it yet.
Obvious flaws??? Please name them...I really want to know! Remember you said "too many" which means he must have LOTS of problems...i just need a list!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
My concerns
1) footwork in the pocket,
2a & b) windup throwing motion and/or raising the front shoulder (seems to be making good progress fixing this),
3) occassional floater deepballs (largely a result of inconsistent footwork),
4) potenitial inexperience making more than 2 or 3 reads before running (though I forget who it was, but someone posted a primer on the UF playbook a few months ago that debunks this one a bit… I don’t know enough to really tell if this is real concern or not, most agree he did not play in a pro-style college offense)
Any one of these COULD (not saying WILL) make a QB a top-10 NFL starter (what I want for Denver). The footwork is my main concern, as that has sunken many of the high potential QB draftpicks (Carr, Harrington, etc.). Whether it becomes a major problem, gets fixed, or whether the things TT does well (like mobility and intangibles) overwhelm any flaws is what I’m waiting to find out. If I had to bet off of 2 games, I’d say the odds are that he will be at least NFL starter quality (top~40 quality)… but too early to say that definitively and he could be much more, or much less. We just can’t know at this point.
He’s unproven. We know. We still like him. Next topic.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 9:47 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Dude...seriously....this is a NFL defense....what, he wins against SD and it will be:
" Well, SD had nothing to play for"
He wins against another team, it will be the weather.
He wins again it will be but the defense had a bad day.
Lets get real here…he led a 17 point come back against an NFL team as a rookie….what…it had to be a 34 point comeback because it was Houston.
Sometimes enough is just not good enough for some people!
Do you really think Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler or Jake Plummer could have done the same???
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
The problem with this thinking
is HIS mechanics matter because they are SO bad. His long, winding loop of delivery adds at least 2/10ths of a second to his throw, That’s enough time for a NFL CB to make up six feet of separation and is the difference between a great throw and a defended/intercepted pass. Throwing an accurate pass in football is undoubtedly the hardest skill in ANY pro sport. That’s why there are only five or six elite QBs at any given time.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 11:05 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
wrong...hardest skill in any sport would probably be hitting an 85mph breaking ball....
that is why .300 or 3 successes out of 10 is considered pretty darn good.
"They are who we thought they were!"
gcman on twitter
Best Athletes...
Ski Racers… period. So the hardest skill to master… 85 mph on skis going down an icy pitch.
I do have some stuff to back that up.
Just recently a multiple sport/athlete competition had two racers and their cohorts going to the finals.
http://www.examiner.com/skiing-in-national/skiers-kristi-leskinen-bode-miller-start-strong-the-superstars-tv-show
In years past they did a similar comp between male athletes from every major sport. Skiers always won and often had 2 in the top 3.
Even Alberto Tomba, who was widely considered the most unfit world cupper finished 5th, if I remember correctly.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
by BeachBronco on Dec 29, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Kristi is a skier... not a racer.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
by BeachBronco on Dec 29, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
SHes a free ride skier who also does some gig mountain stuff.
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
It would be an interesting competition...
some say NBA athletes are the best athletes…some say soccer players…others might even say hockey players. It would be interesting to find a way to compare them accurately.
My point though was specific skill…I still think the most difficult specific skill is hitting a major league breaking pitch. Being a ski racer is more a testament to a person’s risk taking and fear management. Just my opinion though.
"They are who we thought they were!"
gcman on twitter
They have had the competitions... and it was interesting.
I love the game of football.
These men, one of which you can see below, are skilled in going fast while not dying. In my book that is a skill. A select few are true world champions… the whole world champions of football kind of wears thin. This is only one of 4 disciplines… Giant Slalom is widely acknowledged as the most skill full.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWDqF1fG89A
—-there is also a good video with Bode accidentally skiing onto and off the fence and still finishing well.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
by BeachBronco on Dec 29, 2010 12:08 PM MST up reply actions
I'll wager there
are more than a few NFL QBs who could ski race at the amateur level but I doubt Bode Miller could walk onto a college football field and start chucking the ball around a defense with much success.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
I'll take that bet
You really think the NFL conditioning translates to ski slopes? What amateur level are you referring to anyway? You do realize that olympic skiers are amatuers right?
Well, maybe I have to take that back, the more I think about it the olympics do allow pro’s now. Still, strong stiff muscles for the football field would be the worst thing I could think of for downhill skiing.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
Jeremy Bloom seemed to do a decent job at both...
granted he didn’t do much at the professional level in football…but he was a pretty darn good football player.
"They are who we thought they were!"
gcman on twitter
You are on...Bode Miller is a freak of an athlete....and I doubt MANY NFL guys could ski race or snowboard race at a decent recreational level.
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
But the batter doesn't have
to hit the ball while running, checking down to where he wants to hit it and dropping the ball on a 1 square foot space, all while some 300 lb guy is running at him to put a hole in his chest.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
No but he does have to worry about the 98 mph chin music that could out a hole in your face
Both feats are impressive however if you complete 65% of your passes you’re considered successful. If you get a hit 30% of the time you’re considered sucessful.
What’s harder? Something that the best in the world at do successfully 65% of the time or something that the best in the world at do successfully 30% of the time?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
Since there have ...
only been 36 QBs in NFL history to achieve 60% plus for a career (active and inactive) and 176 baseball players to hit .300 or better, I’m going with NFL QB.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
Ah, but my numbers were 65% and .300
Not 60%. And let’s adjust these then. How many batters have hit .400 in a season? How many NFL QBs have completed 40% of passes in a season?
Which is harder again?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
I'm sticking with
QBs with 65% or higher? Three. .400 batting average? ZERO which means .400 average is unattainable. But if you want to be fair you should be asking how many sub-.200 batters are there in comparison to 40% QBs.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 4:08 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly!
40% success rate doing Task A is impossible. Nobody can do Task A successfully 40% of the time.
60% success rate of Task B is attainable. Not many can succeed 60% of the time doing Task B but some can.
Which task is harder to succeed at? Task A where nobody can succeed 40% of the time or Task B where several people can succeed 60% of the time?
Task A is harder to succeed at, obviously.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
And you won't take
me off throwing a pass in football to be the hardest thing in all of pro sports because in baseball the only person trying to stop the batter from making contact is the pitcher. There are 11 guys on the football field dressed as guided missiles trying to stop a QB from completing a pass. And to answer my question above, there has never been a QB who completed less than 40% of his passes in a career that meets minimum standards.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 4:14 PM MST up reply actions
Baseball sucks.
I’m biased though.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Bad footwork, bad passing mechanics, yada, yada, yada...
who cares? Wins…..! That’s what I want.
What really matters? Ryan Leaf sure looked pretty, Marc Wilson looked great back-peddling, I could list you 10 qbs who sure looked great but could not win. TT has (I believe) great football instincts, that is what will make him a winner and hopefully a champion. You want pretty? Go dig up Tommy Maddox, but I’ll take my chances with TT any day.
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
lol
amen brother ruben
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
Actually, Leaf didn't look pretty
He had all the physical tools, but had some mechanical flaws (like TT) that raised some red flags. Manning was always the one with the pretty footwork, etc… he just didn’t have as big a gun or as fast of wheels as Leaf, so some said his ceiling was lower.
Leaf’s big problem ended up being some personality flaws that prevented him from moving beyond his mechanical flaws… the hope/assumption is TT will be able to overcome his mechanical issues because he doesn’t have the personality flags.
pretty footwork.... and relatively poor mobility.
Tebow can be used throwing on the designed rollout, but Manning had to work to get that skill and even now rarely is asked to do it. Trade-offs. Why focus so much on the mechanics…“How does the whole package work?” is the question.
Bull Shit alert! This is the greatest load of garbage that has been perpetuated on us by the media...
Are you factoring in his mobility in with this? This whole study was based on the QB being STATIONARY in the pocket and does not account for Tebow’s mobility or strength.
I am not calling you out, just this grevious load of bull.
i would buy in…just a little …if he was a pocket passer ONLY…but he is not.
I dont know how anyone could doubt his arm strength based on his college career and what we have seen here.
And you know what…I will tend to side with Champ, dawkins, Hagans, lloyd and buy in with professional football players that PLAY with the guy…but hey, thats just me maybe!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Jeff George put up good numbers too...
There are a large number of factors that go into a reasonable analysis of a QB….
That reasonable analysis will tell you that there are some concerns, but that there has also been some good play.
by charlesnelsonreilly on Dec 29, 2010 3:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Skiing Comparison
I was a downhill ski racer most of my life. Bode Miller, whom most of you probably have heard of, was technically THE worst racer in the upper echelon of U.S. skiers.
He was personally responsible for a mini bump in K2 ski sales in europe because the euros couldn’t believe that someone that bad could be that fast if not for really good skis. One quote was “Bad Pilot… Great Plane”.
It is not to hard to see where I am going with this. He became the first U.S. male to win the overall World Cup title since I was born and has won many Olympic medals.
Miller was a nightmare for coaches (I know because I was one briefly). I would tell a kid not to do something technically and would typically get a response like “Bode does it and he is fast”.
Some people know where the fall line is and never let their skis go perpendicular to it. Tebow is a “downhill runner” in this regard… there is always a fall line and he knows it.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
by BeachBronco on Dec 29, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
lol, the Happy Gilmore effect.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Seriously
He tried to coach me once on what he does and I about broke my shins.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
I like Bode too, but he always struck me as a bit inconsistent - streaky.
Of course, I only watch competitive skiing every couple of years. ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Skiers, Like QBs
Are graded on their career. Each race equates to an average of 2 minutes of actual competing. He was streaky but that was what made everyone want to watch him… either he would win by 3 seconds and blow the field away or he would have an epic crash. It was exciting.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
by BeachBronco on Dec 29, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
I concur with that....which is why I watched. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Ricky Bobby
He either finishes first or crashes trying!!
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
by The 3 Amigos on Dec 29, 2010 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
SHAKE AND BAKE!
Does that blow your mind?
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, that just happened.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
Love it BB..
Bode is one of my favorite athletes because he does it his way. Tebow will probably never throw a consistent perfectly tight spiral but he puts the ball where it needs to be. The footwork critique really cracks me up as well. The reason he’s throwing off of his back foot, left foot, right foot, both feet whatever foot is that he’s focused on throwing the ball when it needs to be thrown in order to get it to the receiver while he’s open. FYI every QB in the NFL does this …some more than others. Anybody watch Vick last night? It wasn’t pretty and so far all I’m hearing from the MSM is it was just an off game and he should still be in the running for MVP. If / when TT has a game like that it will be trumpeted by the critics as proof that he will never be a NFL QB .
"as in football so in life"
+1
Just like Bode, TT will feed off the hype and the detractions. He is a voracious competitor and this is part of his diet.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
by BeachBronco on Dec 29, 2010 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Solid post!
The chip on his shoulder drives him towards success. Maybe it is a good thing that people continuously doubt him. I want him playing with an attitude as that provides an edginess to his game. I feel like we can score on every play when he takes the snap. Cant wait for Sunday!
Great comparison. Well done!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
jesus christ man
are you for real? the kis goes over 300 in his first start at home, brings the team back from 14pts down and scores the game winning touchdown. yea, you are right. definitely NOT allpro quality.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
17 actually...13 in the 4th.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
gotcha, I was just thinking in terms of the fourth quarter
but that’s even more to his case.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
TT wouldn't be the first bad QB to put up a huge game
… now, I’m not saying TT is a bad QB. For a late 1st round rookie coming out of his 2nd game, he actually looks like a pretty good QB.
But he also looks like a rookie with occassional bad form, footwork, decision-making and mechanics. Saying “mission accomplished”, we have our allpro QB for the future seems a bit premature. Definitely possible, but far from guarunteed.
WHATEVER
there is a difference in being a skeptic and a hater. Why do so many people hate Tim Tebow? Why do so many people seemingly want him to fail? Is it because he is a virgin? Is it because he has morals? Is it because he is unlike most, if not all other athlete’s? Is it his faith? Is it that he is a goody-two-shoes? I think the bottom line here is simple. People want to see him do poorly so later on they can come back and say SEE I TOLD YOU SO.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
by grind_core on Dec 29, 2010 3:21 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Your assumption/declaration is I'm a hater
… but I actually really like TT and am very excited about his prospects.
Just because I’m not ready to throw my panties at a guy who has played 2 games doesn’t make me a hater. Pointing out flaws in his game that could hold him back long-term shouldn’t be some grievous sin. I also point out the good things he does. Both are just reality.
Really? It's sure as hell hard to figure out
by the tone of your posts. Have you ever heard it’s not what you say but how you say it? I’m guessing not.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Find me one post where I didn't say TT has huge potential
My story hasn’t changed since the day we draft TT. He’s 1 part potential HOF QB, and 1 part total NFL washout… time will tell which he becomes. Never liked TT as a high first rounder due to his flaws, but for a late 1st round QB, thats an acceptable risk. I might’ve preferred a 2nd, but given McX didn’t think he would last, I’ve always been fine with taking him where we did.
You just can’t seem to handle any criticism or lack of fervor for TT. That is your problem, not mine.
Not talking about potential. I'm talking about the overall tone.
Thought I was specific enough.
" I say bench his ass and lets look for something better"
Nope, no negative tone there.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
"if he isn't performing"
Read the whole post, not just the parts you don’t like.
It still doesn't change ANYTHING.
The tone is still the same. Do what you gotta do bro, I’m over it.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
And like you wouldn't be back here first thing pronto
to post an I told you so thread. You don’t fool me, man. Not one bit.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
If that is your position,
why does it seem you feel compelled to throw ice water. It would see that stating a cautionary post once each thread would be sufficient to make your stance known, but instead it “feels” (subjective to me) that you cannot read a positive comment or post without feeling forced to respond. How is that behavior consistent with being objective/rational/skeptical but not consistent with simply being negative about Tebow? I won’t use the “hater” label, as it carries too many other connotations.
Sorry... some folks have lives and don't live online
Anyway, I respond when folks say it is unreasonable for folks to have concerns about Tebow… I typically DO NOT respond to folks who simply say Tebow looks good, etc… because in general I agree.
If you look at the start of all this particular debate with g-core, my initial response was to a post by peanutbutter that basically said the only reason folks in the media don’t like Tebow is because they are “haters” and/or not knowledgeable, and that the media (or anyone else who disagrees) is stupid. Statements like “There is absolutely nothing to NOT like about this kid.” That simply isn’t true (his footwork and mechanics are relatively poor), and saying so shouldn’t be such an offense to the TT fan club. People are often have flaws, have them pointed out, and still succeed inspite of them.
My response to this original post was that I really liked how Tim laid out a strong but balanced case for why Tebow had such a huge impact on the crowd and seemingly his teammates, and how that is a great thing, regardless of the ugliness of some of his passes, etc. I agree with that completely.
I’ve also made some posts about Jake Plummer’s benching, basically saying that winning is a team thing, and W-L record isn’t sufficent for me to judge a QB. If a player has a sub-70 QB rating and the team is averaging less than 20ppg, I don’t care if the team is undefeated… the team is winning INSPITE of the QB, not BECAUSE of the QB.
This post summarizes basically everything I’ve said in this thread… if that makes me a hater, so be it.
Hey!
Sorry… some folks have lives and don’t live online
I have a life…it just includes a healthy obsession with MHR and the Denver Broncos! lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Dec 30, 2010 8:53 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I have watched film
Training camp, Broncos.com, games or highlghts. I am in Ravens country and if not them then Redskins, Pttsburgh, or one of the NY teams. H87L really, I am a West Coast/Southwesterner by birth and upbringing. Followed a girl out here 22 years ago and never left (a little background)).
I don’t get to see much which is why this site is my lifeline to the Broncos. What I have seen of him I have liked. I am quickly comming to expect TT to do well in the NFL somewhere. The only firm statement I would make today is that Tim Tebow will find a home as an NFL QB somewhere. He has passed my litmus test that he can play in this league. Now we will find out how well!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
Just the way I read the post
Truly? No. I can like the way they play. I can like what they do.
Symantecs? Yeah, but a line worth paying attention to.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
few who claim to know really do..
Knowledge is far more ethereal than most prefer to think about. Even worse, most “pundits” have little to no football experience. We, as humanity, try our damnedest to attribute causality to everything, usually in retrospect -which is fundamentally flawed.
The draft processes is an exercise of this kind of futility. (minus reviewing college tape and interviews). Does Tebo take 3 days to wind up that arm of his, sure does – that is measurable and it is easy to foresee problems with a wind-up that takes longer than most punter’s hang-times; however, the impossibility of measuring the intangibles will lead to underestimating the value of those abilities. The impact of good leadership will vary, dependent on who the supporting cast is.
by jholm7 on Dec 29, 2010 9:24 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I second that notion
This is becoming borderline worship. Let’s have him get through a complete rookie season first and see how he does against DCs with game film on him. I want him to succeed and that drive was exciting but my gosh, let’s not unveil his name on the Ring of Fame just because he breathed some life into a stale team.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Overstating
Critics keep using the HOF/Ring of fame/Pro Bowl sarcasm to attack Tebow, but it is a shell of an arguement.
No one is saying any of those things. What we are saying is that our offenses has improved from 20 to 24 ponts per game. We are .500 since Tebow started, and his attitude is infectious to the other players, fans, and even players of other teams. All of this out of a rookie with 2 starts.
Just depends how you look at it:
“Wow, it’s only been two starts, let’s calm down”
or
“Wow, it’s only been two startss and look at what he has done and started”
We are just hoping for the best, not waiting for the other shoe to drop.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
I feel hopeful
but I am not yet inspired. I jumped off my sofa and yelled “Tebow for six!” when he ran in the tying TD. But it is still two games against teams with very little film on him. I want him to crush SD this Sunday and give me hope for next season…Hell I’ll take a 1 point win against SD.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Dec 29, 2010 10:51 AM MST up reply actions
LOL Fair enough!
But I think he will have his first offical rookie “trial by fire” game this weekend.
Assuming our defense can even keep us in the game!
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 10:55 AM MST up reply actions
Brian
I think his trial by Fire was first start in the Black Hole against a Raiders team fighting for their playoff life.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
by The 3 Amigos on Dec 29, 2010 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
Sure
I meant more so his first multiple interception/mistake game.
We’ll see. He is a proven winner and is a TD magnet, IMO. But all rookies are still rookies.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
Good points.
1. Everyone’s an expert on everyone else’s job.
2. It’s easy to be an expert when you don’t have to produce anything but an opinion…
3. …and opinions aren’t the same thing as facts.
If that 20 percent you mentioned were put in charge of the Broncos it would be interesting to see whether or not running a football team really is as simple as they seem to believe it is, or that they’d be as successful doing the real thing as they are in running their mouths about it. I’m here to tell you that it isn’t and they wouldn’t.
And while much of the criticism on Tebow is not unfair, remember that most of the naysayers have never thrown a football under pressure once in their lives. And you still have to take it worth a grain of salt when it comes from someone like Boomer Esiason and Dan Fouts – who both know a thing or two about playing quarterback, but still cannot account for Tebow’s heart and personal drive.
In the short time he’s played, Tebow has showed us something. He’s showed us that yes, he is a rookie, but he’s also shown us that all those “intangibles” guys like Kiper and Gruden talk about really are there.
Sooner or later he’s going to have a horrible game – everyone does – and the naysayers will be up and at it again. It’s far too soon to make lasting proclamations about Tebow but I think that some people simply do not want him to succeed simply because he has always been successful.
What they don’t realize is that Tebow has the drive, the work ethic, the passion and the ability to lead that 99.9 percent of us will never muster if we live to be a thousand. This is why he succeeds, it isn’t because it was given to him. It’s what separates NFL athletes – the best of the best – from the rest of us, and it is what separates the champions and the leaders in any profession from everybody else.
They are the best of the best of the best.
And in my opinion, it is why Tebow will eventually have success as quarterback of the Broncos. You’d be a fool not to build your team around such a dynamic talent whose ability to raise the level of play of those around him is unquestioned. The mechanics, the reads…it’s no different from any other rookie with two whole starts under his belt.
It’ll either come or it won’t. There’s nothing wrong with feeling the magic and letting it inspire you. That’s what leaders do, and that’s why they’ve become leaders. It doesn’t mean that Tim Tebow is going to win himself a ring with it, but in my mind you’d be a fool to bet against him.
Got Tebow?
by TheMastermind on Dec 29, 2010 10:45 AM MST up reply actions 21 recs
rec'd. well said.
I'm betting Marshall is sitting in Miami thinking "That could have been me." Instead, Tyler Thigpen is throwing him passes. - Nick Cast
by Jay Fin Anderson on Dec 29, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
Go Green!
The ignorant redneck formerly known as kentuckybronco.
by Troy Hufford on Dec 29, 2010 1:23 PM MST up reply actions
Hallelujah
preach it, brother MM.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
And the Tebow naysayers response to this excellent comment...
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
Its all personal opinion about how TT's work ethic and intangibles are so great, that nothing else matters...
And stated as such… What is there to debate?
I very much agree with most of it, even though my personal opinion is that mechanics/footwork/accuracy/etc. matter a lot too… and thus, I’m not quite so ready to declare “mission accomplished” in finding the next great Broncos QB, even though I love TT’s potential and hope it is so.
Further, the Mastermind also falls into the category of people commenting on things that are “not his job”, and many football people have big doubts about TT. Many football folks also really like TT, including McD/X who thought he was worthy of a first round pick… given his late 1st round value, I agree that is definitely a die I’m willing to roll, because the upside is there.
However, there are a lot of elite college athletes with big hearts, big stats, and poor skills… the so called best of the best of the best, that wash out. After Leinert destroyed a great Chicago DEF in the “they are who we thought they are” game, I was positive he was the real deal too… now, not so much.
So who is right? Only time will tell…. I think that is all the so-called “naysayers” here on MHR (who are all Bronco fans) are saying. As a bronco fan, I firmly hope it is the Tebow advocates that end up right.
I am anxious to see if Tebow improves his mechanics over time...
but it is obvious he has enough desire to fill a stadium of Cutlers or Ortons. I’ll take it…it’s just going to be rough at times next year.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Mechanics & Intangibles
Here’s a pre-draft scouting report on Tom Brady (certain words highlighted by yors truly for emphasis):
Tom Brady Positives: Good height to see the field. Very poised and composed. Smart and alert. Can read coverages. Good accuracy and touch. Produces in big spots and in big games. Has some Brian Griese in him and is a gamer. Generally plays within himself. Team leader.
Negatives: Poor build. Very skinny and narrow. Ended the ‘99 season weighing 195 pounds and still looks like a rail at 211. Looks a little frail and lacks great physical stature and strength. Can get pushed down more easily than you’d like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can’t drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own.
Summary: Is not what you’re looking for in terms of physical stature, strength, arm strength and mobility, but he has the intangibles and production and showed great Griese-like improvement as a senior. Could make it in the right system but will not be for everyone.
Here's a Link
to another one:
http://www.gmjrnfldraft.com/files/tom_brady_tom_brady.pdf
The point being, predictions about Brady were that he lacked the mobility and arm strength to ever be a great quarterbacks though he did have the “intangibles” to succeed in the college game.
Well, we all know how Brady turned out. True, his situation when he was drafted was not equivalent to Tebow’s, but Brady busted his butt to fix his weaknesses. I would say he now has a strong arm that can make any throw you want, and is one of the best at moving in the pocket to avoid sacks. His arm strength and mobility are much better now than they were back when he first took over the team in 2001. Go back and review tape of his earlier seasons (even his first couple of Super Bowl seasons) and you will see what I mean.
However it was his intangibles, which no one can teach you, have always been there. Tebow is a driven person by all accounts and thinks football every moment he’s awake or not praying. I think he has the work ethic to fix his weaknesses and his intangibles will help carry him through that process.
Much as I appreciate Kyle Orton, he must have a great running game and great pas protection (or a great defense — i.e., Chicago) to win games. Orton has maxed out his potential at this point. McD got more out of him than anyone expected but he couldn’t teach him the ability to rally his team and win games when he was behind by two scores or more. He may be a great guy, but he lacks what Denver needs in its QB right now: the ability to inspire his teammates when things go south.
Tebow? I’m not sure any of us can say how much potential he has, but one thing we do know — he has more of the intangibles that a winner needs than 10 Kyle Ortons or Jay Cutlers.
Just my opinion, of course
I think people are far too caught up in being "right" or not
Of course nobody knows what the future of Tebow holds as the future has yet to unravel yet. What I don’t understand is why some Broncos fans want to try to pee in other Broncos fans Cheerios for being excited about our rookie QB who looks far better than most hoped for in his first two starts in this league. A rookie QB who just inspired a previously dreadfully performing team to a 17-0 halftime comeback victory.
The fact that people are so concerned about being right or wrong about their belief (or disbelief) in Tebow is the whole reason this is completely blown out of proportion. People were so adamant that this kid could not be successful as an NFL QB that they are freaking out that gasp! they could be wrong. Wrong about something that everyone all agrees is a crapshoot anyway (drafting NFL players, especially QBs). If from the start the naysayers stance was "maybe he will make it maybe not, you never know, but look at those mechanics"…then it wouldn’t be so bad right now. It’s how completely against Tebow his detractors were. They were adamant that this kid couldn’t and wouldn’t make it as an NFL QB. They were certain of it. It wasn’t a “you never know with QB prospects in the NFL” it was a “this kid cannot play in the NFL as a QB” kind of sentiment.
Now that the early returns show that hey, maybe he can play after all, those naysayers are shouting around about it only being two games, and citing his mechanics for the zillionth time. They are terrified of being wrong about a draft prospect! Meanwhile, most of Broncos Country is excited for what the future may hold with Tebow as our QB. Are we sure he will be great? No, but we’re going to be excited just the same. And we’re excited for the journey. For the ride. For the experience. Please don’t try to temper our excitement for our team. This is what it’s all about. We’ll all find out eventually for sure but the last thing I’m concerned with is who turns out to be right and who was wrong. I’m just excited for the journey.
Go Tebow!!! Go Broncos!!!
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by c_style on Dec 29, 2010 3:09 PM MST up reply actions 6 recs
You mean 105% correct right?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
c-style
you are right in saying that there isn’t right or wrong tight now… both are correct.
1) Does TT have great intangibles that mean he is likely to succeed? Yes.
2) Does TT have mechanical and footwork flaws that mean he’s likely to fail? Yes.
People “peeing in the TT fans cheerios” are simply saying point 2.
I haven’t heard anyone say TT hasn’t played well for a rookie, or that he doesn’t have a lot of potential. No one is denying point 1, and its only the TT bandwagon’s hypersensitivity to any criticism that makes it seem like we are “pissing in their cheerios” (love that term).
The most adamant of the disbelievers pre-draft were saying that a QB with Tebows bad college mechanics couldn’t make it in the NFL… well guess what… they were probably correct too. They were so correct that 20+ teams passed on what otherwise would’ve been a surefire #1 pick. Those college mechanics probably wouldn’t fly long-term in the NFL, and TT’s draft stock fell accordingly to where Denver could grab him with a late first round pick..
Fortunately for us, TT seems to have made some pretty significant progress in tightening things up, though his footwork is still questionable… the only question is whether he can continue to improve, or will he revert once teams get some film on him and his weaknesses… but thats the same for just about any rookie QB… the future is murky. Saying so shouldn’t be anymore controversial than saying TT is the next savior of the franchise…
Geez dude...great post MM...always love your stuff and this hit it out of the park my friend!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
The real bottom line is that the QB situation is resolved for at least 2011
So Broncos management can focus on building a football team and not go all deer-in-the-headlights over the quarterback prospect du jour.
The real problem is that this is an under-talented, over-aged team, and until that is fixed you could clone Elway and the Broncos still would not win.
And if Tebow can be the “the answer” so much the better. So far he has been good enough to get a crack at it.
it’s not complicated
Tim Tebow simply had a lot more detractors of his perceived ability to play quarterback in the NFL when he came into the league – in fact most weren’t even of the belief he should be drafted in the first round. Therefore it will take a lot more success on his part before those critics are won over.
www.haikuboy.com
It's not complicated, just hypocritical.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Consider this
Anyone remeber when Seattle(still an afc west team) drafted Brian Bosworth?
My God, Everyone said he would be a stud. Seattle was going to take over the west.
The man fell on his face. Was it the pressure? I think to a large extent it was. He was a huge player in college and nothing in the NFL.
Thank your lucky stars Tim Tebow does not have that pressure on him. It is much easier to impress doubters than to satisfy believers ;)
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
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by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Boz was full of himself though...doing movies and crap.
Tebow lives and breathes football 24/7.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Bosworth and Tebow is a horrible comparison.
Let's put the 'D' back in Denver
by plainview88 on Dec 29, 2010 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
Not
comparing players. comapring situations. Hailed as a champ coming in and failed vs. hailed as nothing and succeed.
Boz was full of himself and who knows how much that hurt his play.
I don’t think he made movies till after his very short NFL carreer.
I could be wrong though :D
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
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by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
But Tebow was hailed as not an NFL QB by many
Let's put the 'D' back in Denver
by plainview88 on Dec 29, 2010 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, but by comparing them without comparing their work ethic and personalities isn't a fair comparison.
Like the dope fiend, turned motivational speaker, Todd Moronovich. We could compare him to Tebow, but to what end? One could not cope with his life, the other can. I think it’s more fair to compare Tebow to Peyton Manning…both have similar work ethic and desire. We can then separate them based on physical attributes.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Ok
this has gone terribly wrong somehow.
My post was meant to show the difference in expectations and the pressures put on by them.
I did pick a bad example but I was going for opposites.
Please disregard any reference to “The Boz”
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
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by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
lol
Todd Moronovich would have been a better example.
http://www.esquire.com/features/the-game/todd-marinovich-0509
Read to see what pressure can do to a man.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Steroids in college,
none in the pros….end of career.
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
Are we talking about Boz or Merriman?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Jabba
: )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:11 PM MST up reply actions
Keyword there: perceived
The perception BEFORE he started his college career was exactly the same and we all saw how that ended up. Tebow has my vote!
its simple, win games
Cutler and Orton didn’t win enough in Denver – doesn’t make either of them bad players. If Tebow does win a lot of games, no one will care about anything else.
Wait that shoudl read no one SHOULD care about anything else…..
BS
In 2006 Denver won 6 games before Cutler was put in… but it was IN SPITE of Plummer, not BECAUSE of Plummer. Plummer looked horrible, the team was averaging 16 points per game, and he had a QB rating of under 70.
If all of a sudden the defense is playing lights out and we’re winning games, but TT is sucking, I say bench his ass and lets look for something better. W-L is important (and I’ll be cheering the Defense and the wins), but so is performance.
7 games...Broncos were 7-4 before Cutler started.
Cutler finished 2-3
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Yeah and they were 7-2, then
Plummer lost 2 straight ugly games against San Diego then KC. Shannahan was looking for an excuse to get Cutler in. I admit, I was all for the change at the time. Let’s not forget some of the bonehead plays Plummer would make though. I think Shanny truly believed we were a Super Bowl caliber team just lacking a SB caliber QB at the time, he may have been a bit optimistic…
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 2:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I think a lot of Plummers problem was Shanny himself....
But you can’t knock the fact that Plummer is the winningest QB in Broncos history……
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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I know
there are some realities that make my head hurt because I simply have to accept them. I was all in on the Plummer to Cutler change and now, in hind-sight, I wonder…
Of course, if the HC is not on your side it’s probably not going to work out anyway, which brings it back to your point about Shanny being the problem. Ow! my head hurts…
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 3:04 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah...also adieu Cutler.
My guess is, Tebow is such a respectful and humble guy that it doesn’t matter who the next head coach is – that head coach is going to LOVE Tim Tebow.
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Fully agree.
Easy to coach, leader, works hard, great athlete, respectful yet his own man. Wow, I just realized I sound like I have a man-crush!
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions
and spends more time studying than the head coach... lol
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not that there's anything wrooonnng with that...
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
Jake wasn't playing like The Snake in 2006
If Jake had put his heart into it he wouldn’t have been replaced by Cutler. He was simply tired of football. Pat Tillman’s death had him re-evaluating what he wanted from life, and it wasn’t football.
I know Jake. He simply rebelled. Shanny was constantly chewing him out and restraining him with playcalling. He grew facial hair in rebellion against the media and others. He resisted participating in offseason workouts. He started complaining about Shanahan to the media. etc. etc. etc.
I love Jake and think he could have been one of the greatest QBs ever if he had wanted to, but as much as it pains me it was the right move to replace him with Cutler. The magic was gone, the losses mounting, and the team needed to know what they had in their young QB.
we may have been a super bowl caliber team that year if Al Wilson hadn't got hurt.
the defense was awesome with his skills and leadership in the middle.
by bailey disciple on Dec 29, 2010 4:23 PM MST up reply actions
we're not winning games. We won one game. The defense didn't start playing lights out until after halftime which is about the same time TT started playing lights out as well.
Connection? who knows but don’t say the defense is winning games because aside from this one they haven’t won squat.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Dec 29, 2010 9:45 AM MST up reply actions
Yep
Just goes to show that W-L is more than simply the QB. Cutler performed generally great in 2007… but the defense was putrid so we lost.
TT performed very well this week… but we still game seconds away from losing. If HOU isn’t stupid and simply runs the ball and kicks a FG, we lose. The DEF made them play for being dumb, so it really was a team win, not just a TT win.
totally agree it was a team win but the defense didn't score 17 points or 14 unanswered. So Tebow needs just as much credit as the defense.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Dec 29, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
Defense played lights out against KC...still lost 10-6.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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In my opinion
It was benching Plummer in the first place that got us down this path….
by BroadwayBroncoFan on Dec 29, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
Nope, Plummer totally deserved benching
Don’t even try to tell me <16ppg and a sub-70 QB rating is good enough.
Now, a valid argument could be made that the real mistake was drafting Cutler in the first place. Plummer never played well under pressure. He was great when he was ahead of the curve and could manage a game, but when pressed (see 2005 AFC Championship game), he did crazy stuff like left-handed tosses and generally melted down. In 2006 I had the feeling he was always looking over his shoulder at the shiny new kid with the rocket arm, and thus constantly pressed rather than just playing his game like he did in 2005.
As such, you could indict Shanny for poor GMing/coaching for putting Plummer in that akward situation, but not for benching him when he was stinking up the field… Cutler greatly improved the offense (up to 20ppg and had a better QB rating) when he came in… but Al Wilson’s injury derailed the defense and the team fell apart.
If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and walks like a duck..
It’s a hater.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Plummer should have never been Benched
but that is an argument for another time
by gnarlybroncodude on Dec 29, 2010 5:46 PM MST up reply actions
You got it right, Tim!
My wife and I were in the South Stands last weekend. “IT” started in the section down and to our right, right below the big screeen. They got it going, and it just kept building.
“Tebow, Tebow, Tebow”.
Man, the place was rocking. I was also sitting in about the same area for the New England game in the 2005 Playoffs, and that’s what it felt like Sunday. Truley amazing!
I understand people’s apprehension, and agree, but it’s obvious who was and wasn’t at the game. If you were there, you would be a fool to NOT get excited. We Bronco fans just need some hope, and we have found it. Is that such a bad thing? It’s nothing more than a belief in what MAY happen with Tebow, but it’s better than scepticism.
All things begin with hope and belief. Let’s hope Tebow’s career can justify the faith, for his sake and our beloved franchise’s.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 8:53 AM MST reply actions 20 recs
Great comment. I can't say anything else other than rec'd!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Damn
Did that really go green in less than 40 minutes?
Wow dude, way to hit the nail on the head LOL
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
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by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
Not soon enough imo. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Great! Something new to
go for in life! What should I say to get 5 recs…." Got it, either “I love Tebow!” or “I hate McDaniels!”
Ok, I’m waiting…
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 30, 2010 1:44 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Fantastic comment, Brian!
I would only add that as a fanbase we’ve officially spent 12 straight years now arguing over whether we can be a good football team again soon. There have been a few highlights, but a lot of lowlights. Personally, I’m gonna stop overanalyzing everything to death and just enjoy this kid for what he is, win or lose.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
Umm, you weren't excited in 2005?
Were you not paying attention when we had a 13-3 season and a home game for the AFC Championship game?
I think very few were arguing that we were a good football team that year.
LOL
Yeah, I must have missed that year. Did we win the Lombardi? Or at least an AFC Championship on our home field?
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
No, but we broke Brady's perfect playoff record.
Punked his ass too! It just felt good, that’s all he was sayin’. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Or the 100 yard INT for Bailey?
I lost my voice on that very play……….
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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I dream of that play every night
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:05 PM MST up reply actions
Mine is 4th and 6 incomplete pass by Farve in SB 32
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IT’S INCOMPLETE! INCOMPLETE! OHHH BOY, CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? THE BRONCOS ARE GOING TO WIN THIS THING!
Yes, I have a big ole shit eating grin on my face right now. lmao
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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John and his
6" vertical celebratory jump : )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:08 PM MST up reply actions
Even if we win another SB
can it ever be as sweet as that was?
Tebow has the fire, but he’d have to slog through the NFL for 13 years before winning one to equal the ecstacy of that moment! : )
But I’m game for giving him a shot. ; )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
It's been a long time....so I think the next one will be just as sweet.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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I remember Lou from Littleton predicting we'd win the next seven
Good times.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:13 PM MST up reply actions
I remember saying to the guy standing next to me at the bar..
“If Brady tries that again, Champs gonna take it back for six.” Very next play…
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
okay
I’ll amend “good football team” to “championship caliber football team”.
Which irks me, because that’s exactly the argument I’m tired of! : ) I don’t CARE about the last decade anymore. I want the future, whatever it may hold.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:07 PM MST up reply actions
it's hold Tim Tebow baby!
and 4th quarter magic!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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I didn't need to be at the game.
I felt it at home. And, I have eyeballs. Rec’d.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
The point I am hammering at is that Tebow appears to have a large portion of the media that are reluctant to grade him the same way any other first round, first time starting, quarterback would be graded. This perplexes me.
as you know, many, and i mean many, journalists and so called football analysts, predicted that tebow would amount to an average qb or even worse than that: a bust.
that said, those same critics don’t want to look stupid. therefore, they are still critical and reluctant to identify the positives in tebow’s game. personally, i think they don’t have a choice. tebow will make them eat their words and make them look like idiots.
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
i have that feeling in my gut as well.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Agreed
Tebow will need a big Sunday or Monday night game for the critics to finally be quiet.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 9:09 AM MST up reply actions
or, dare I say, a playoff win? :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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I tweeted to John on Sunday.
After he tweeted that we don’t care that Tebow put up 300 yards against the worst pass defense in the league. I replied that it’s exciting because it was only Tebow’s second start. And after thinking about it more, I tweeted again that if Bradford had brought his team back from 17-0 in the second half by posting two touchdowns in the fourth quarter, even against the Texans, those same journalists would be fitting him for Canton right now. Of course I was much more succinct in 140 characters, and maybe didn’t get my point across.
Anyways, I’m trying not to get carried away, but I’m feeling something from the kid. I watched his presser after the game and he kept talking about how the players believed in themselves and each other, and that was nice to hear. He looks to be a born leader. I’m concerned that whoever we hire as a new HC won’t like him and won’t give him a chance. I want him to turn out well for the Broncos, but if he fails, I want him to do it on his own merits, not because someone doesn’t care for his mechanics.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
by Jason Witte on Dec 29, 2010 9:16 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed:
I’m concerned that whoever we hire as a new HC won’t like him and won’t give him a chance. I want him to turn out well for the Broncos, but if he fails, I want him to do it on his own merits, not because someone doesn’t care for his mechanics.
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Bowlen says he will never tell a coach who to play or who to bench.
But he is to smart a businessman not to realize that Tebowmania singlehandedly saved his bottom line this season. He’d be a fool to hire a HC without making sure the HC will give Tebow a fair shake.
-Harvey J. Neptune
Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.
I hope so.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Bowlen says a lot of stuff he doesn't necessarily mean
Like Shannahan being the coach for life and McDaniels being the coach through 2011. The fact is he doesn’t have the stomach for another firestorm and he’ll make it clear to the next coach that Tebow is to be the QB.
I think he means it at
the time. He has a great reputation of a man of his word. That’s why the Cutler thing looked so bad for Cutler when he said he called Bowlen and Bowlen was saying it didn’t happen. People who know Bowlen know who was most likely telling a lie at that moment.
Circumstances just changed so dramatically after those statements were made that he was compelled to do what he did. Perhaps the best lesson for Mr. B is to not make those kinda “never” or “forever” statements.
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure at this point the coach that is brought in
will be brought in knowing that Tebow is gonna be the guy. Surely there is at least one other coach that believes in him.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Yes. So I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
No? Why not rc
Totally not being argumentative whatsoever. :) I’m just curious as to your reasons is all. I just don’t know who else there is that loves Tebow like he does.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Purely irrational I'm sure,
I live in the bay area and had to watch his act while with the Raiders. He was a huge self-promoter and he seemed to be putting on an act all of the time. He loved the cameras a bit too much for my taste. I just got so tired of watching him, biting that lower lip trying to be so intense….got old. He’s good at coaching up QBs which I know could be a plus, but I fear he would be short term at best, his act also got old with the players both in Oakland and in TB. Also, I don’t have a lot of confidence that his personality type and Bowlen’s are a good match. I do confess that most of my dislike is a personality thing, afraid I can’t give you a very reasonable discussion on him other than I don’t like him and can’t stand the idea of watching and listening to him each week. Not a very intelligent reason I agree, but there it is….
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 9:43 PM MST up reply actions
No worries, mate.
I guess i haven’t paid much to the psychological side of it, so much as his career numbers. Won more than he’s lost? Check. Won in the playoffs? Check. Won the Super Bowl? Check. People argue that he is a QB collector and that he road Dungy’s coattails to the SB win. Those same people forget that he faced his former team that same year in the big game.
When he was in Oakland, I remember Gannon playing quite a bit. He also brought them from obscurity. Then when he was in TB, he had no real QB, hence the need to stockpile. He also didn’t have the necessary draft picks (because of the trade to acquire Gruden in the first place) to keep bringing in young talent and the team was still paying some players that were no longer even with the Bucs when he got there.
I’ll admit, he may clash with Bowlen, but maybe that is exactly what this team needs. Of all the guys out there, he is the one I would most like to see come to Denver. We aren’t that bad of a team, yet. One bad year doesn’t and won’t make us the doormat of the AFC West or the NFL. Gruden is older than McD was, but not some super old dude that is out of touch with the game. And he loves Tebow. It’s a perfect fit IMHO. But I’ve been wrong before, many times.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
I’ll admit, he may clash with Bowlen, but maybe that is exactly what this team needs.
There you go making sense again. : ) Well said, grind. Not so much clash as maybe challenge. If Bowlen is the anti Davis, that shouldn’t threaten him in the slightest.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 11:36 PM MST up reply actions
that's not wholly inaccurate
for Gruden at that time. I have to say, though, based on what I’ve seen from him just in the last few years, he seems to be maturing gracefully, carries himself well, and … most importantly … he has a lot of wisdom. Like he told Tebow, you can’t change who you are. But I think you can mature and become more effective.
To me, Gruden (if he were interested) would be worth a dice roll for two reasons: 1) he knows and loves Tebow and 2) he understands the AFC West and despises Al Davis.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 11:40 PM MST up reply actions
I honestly can't think of another guy I'd rather have.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Agreed Grind...
Man that would be some serious intensity on the sideline with TT and Chucky rev’n it up. The Broncos would have more Sportscenter highlights than ever. I also believe that Gruden has matured in hos time away from the game. Really enjoyed his QB interviews last offseason.
"as in football so in life"
No matter what
we still have to wait and see. I like Tim and I’d REALLY love to see him do well on Jan 2 against the Chargers. Those guys need an a-kicking for payment from the last two games.
We conquered this territory with our bodies and souls, then we watered it with our tears.
Go Denver!
we had to wait for Elway too
we waited for Griese. we waited for the Snake. we waited for Cutler. waiting is part of the game.
Where will we end up? Who knows! We’ll be good sometimes, bad sometimes. But after that comeback, I couldn’t be more excited for the ride.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:18 PM MST up reply actions
Very well reasoned and balanced post
There is a lot to be excited about TT, and too often the team has played down to the level of its opponents. If TT can light a fire under folks, including the wine-drinking wussy fans in the new Stadium, I’m all for it….
That said, he has to perform too. He has one mediocre, and one good performance so far. Thats a good start for a rookie.
Very good indeed...just looked at Elway first few starts...YIKES.
Therefore, I can only deduce that how a QB plays in his first season has NO bearing on his future career outcome. I’m just optimistic as all hell.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Sorry CJ but the Raider game was not mediocre
A 100+ QB rating that includes the longest QB run in Bronco history even with the loss is hardly mediocre. Remember he wasn’t given much to work with as far as plays either.
"as in football so in life"
Cutler in '08
I remember watching Cutler in ‘08 and remarking all too often that after his second pick of any game, especially those madening ones in the endzone, that the game was all but lost. The ’08 Broncos did not belief in any “Cutler” magic. He didn’t have the mental toughness to overcome the adversity he, himself created. Fast forward to Tebow ’10. A pick in the endzone, shades of Cutler, but unlike Cutler, he comes back and leads the team from 17 points down. I did not know at that instant if he had it in him to pull it off, but it looks like he might. And even better, I think the rest of the Broncos are starting to believe he might.
…when Elway started the Drive, Broncos offensive guard Keith Bishop said of the Browns, “We got ’em right where we want ’em!” (That was Mile High Magic!)
broncorat
Maybe we needed to be at our lowest low.....
……to believe in magic again. If the team was a .500 team and Tebow came in and won a game, I think we would be very happy but not bestowing mystical magic on the win. I don’t really recall anybody really saying we got our mojo back when Stockley took that deflection to the house to start last season (although it was on the road). If that would have happened last week and Tebow made the throw, we would have been talking magic. Maybe it is from the ashes that is this season that magic can rise. So whatever this is, even if it turns out to be a parlor trick (and not magic), I’m enjoying the ride and it sure makes this offseason more bearable.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
by bonaire on Dec 29, 2010 9:50 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
It wasn't the win, it was how he won.
Elways first comeback was 19-0 to 21-19. Tebow’s first comeback was 17-0 to 24-23. It was HOW he won it, not THAT he won it. This is why there is a bit of a magic feeling to this win.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
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Rec'd
Very well said.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
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by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
your first sentence is spot on, bonaire
You reach a point where the laws of the physical universe no longer apply, you’re so far into the weeds. You look at what you have and you try to make the most of it, and set lofty expectations aside. That’s really the only reason I can think of that this seemed like more than Win Number 4, that it transcended. I felt, personally, like I was just ready for it to happen — not so much out of expectation of “Broncos Football”, or desperate hope that we wouldn’t lay another massive egg, but because we had a guy in the huddle who was playing like he gave a rat’s tuchas. It distracted from everything else. Conjecture was moot. It was happening before our eyes.
Was it Elwayesque, even though it was just one, early, imperfect win? You’re damned right it was.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 11:47 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed.....
……I just know the players believe we can win in the fourth quarter again. They are going to try just that much harder to make the play. Belief is a tremendous advantage in sports.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I'm Thankful...
and I expect my MHR team to be thankful. All you negative nellies got me all mistified. I love this team, I love this state, I love Tebow’s attitude…. And most of all, I love my authentic $240 Tebow jersey I got for christmas. Enough said!
by CyberSpartacus on Dec 29, 2010 10:00 AM MST reply actions 3 recs
Yes... under the pseudonym PositivePolly...
JK. I haven’ seen him. Wonder what happened.
-Harvey J. Neptune
Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.
Pro-Bowl Press Conference:
Interviewer: Do you want to wink to the three teams that cut you and tell them, "I told you so?"
Brandon Lloyd: "No, I want to say, ‘F— you,’ and I mean that in the most professional way."
Haha! Good one Harv!
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
He spontaneously combusted after getting his wish!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
I feel the magic too....
….I’m just not sure it would feel the same if it was Orton or Cutler that came back and won that game. I just think we are so low as a fanbase right now that a rookie gives us more hope than if a veteran QB would have done it. But whatever it is, I still love it.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I don't recall either Orton or Cutler leading this team back from a three score deficit in the second half....at HOME.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
I was using a hypothetical....
……but I doubt we would have felt the magic had it been them. I could obviously be totally wrong, and it really doesn’t matter. My point above was trying to define where the magic came from, and the main point I was making is that I believe we had to be at our lowest to feel the magic again. I could be wrong, it’s just my guess. Not sure how this turned into a debate with you, it really wasn’t my intention. Sorry about that.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I think the point is, fans had come to expect them to crumble so when it didn't happen and the Broncos pulled out a win
we were collectively unconvinced that it would happen again. Tebow started out grabbing a victory from sure defeat, so now the fans think that maybe this is what we might expect more often than not. I hope it is!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Me to! I think I forgot how hopeless..
…I had felt (or maybe it was just a willingness to accept the inevitable defeat) when it came to the Broncos until last week.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
But thats the point....Cutler, Orton, Plummer and Griese have NEVER done this...the last guy was Elway...pretty elite company!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
There was good reason for Cutler to be treated differently
Cutler is as gifted as a quarterback as this league has seen. I remember the first time I say him throw, it was the first time anyone ever made me think of Elway. Cutler’s ability to throw with velocity and accuracy is just sick. Cutler also has good pocket presence and can throw rolling to either side of the field with great accuracy. Anyone remember the roll out where he threw a 30+ yard pass on he dime, as Dilfer likes to say, on the very edge of the endzone to Royal against the Raiders? There are only a handful of NFL quarterbacks who can make such a throw.
Please, nobody have a coronary. Jay’s demeanor, his behavior on the field and his willingness to throw others under the bus, were not only perplexing but the anti-Elway. To put it another way, don’t you wish Tebow could throw the ball like Cutler can? Cutler has seemed to right some of his mental problems and has played amazing over the last 8 games. Don’t believe me what about Phil Simms who played the position and does a lot of film work? What about Mke Martz or Rex Ryan. When Jay is mentally there he can be an elite quarterback the kind Tebow never will. The thing is, you never know if Jay is going to be there mentally.
Tebow, you never have to wonder. He will give you 100%, he won’t blame his teammates and he will do whatever is best for the team. One has to love all of that. The question I have about Tebow, which is a legitimate question, is how will he succeed when many more athletic quarterbacks with just as good or better arms have failed so repeatedly in the NFL? Lets be honest, faster quarterbacks who have just as good of arms have failed spectacularly or only had brief success in the NFL. Tebow is not gifted with the type of ability Vick has. A good argument can be made he does not even have the talent of a David Garrard. How will Tebow have all this success when Garrard is a team guy, does whatever it takes to win and yet has had such uneven success that he is constantly on the edge of being benched?
Hey, I hope he is the one in a thousand who has a game like his and makes it in the NFL. The pundits are right to point out that if Tebow succeeds he will be doing what other more athletic quarterbacks with his type of game have failed to do.
by Keyworthpunch on Dec 29, 2010 10:03 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
I think Tebow's arm might be stronger than Cutlers....Tebow loses so much of his potential with his horrible footwork.
A lot of a quarterbacks strength and velocity comes from the entire body motion of a throw. Will Tebow ever get to that point? It remains to be seen…
Cutler’s rocket arm sure looks nice…even into the arms of the other team.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Couldn’t disagree more. Tebow has plenty of arm and velocity. A number of receivers and commentators have mentioned this. You can see it during the games.
Tebow also possesses leadership. Something which Cutler has never shown and, IMO, likely never will. I’ve watched a few Bears games and obviously Bronco games when Cutler was playing. When he made mistakes you could just feel the team lose confidence.
I think Tim said it best above – the thing you have with Tebow is that you never feel like the game is out of reach until the clock ticks down to zero-zero. That intangible is seen very infrequently in just one player (Elway, Manning, Brady, Montana).
Most people are running around - umbilical cord in hand - looking for a new place to plug in
kwp...
You deeply underrate Tebow’s physical gifts, but otherwise you’re right on in terms of why folks project Cutler as a great QB vs. TT… and why Cutler is just as likely to fail (but for different reasons).
Tim is right that Tebow’s problems are more mechanical/footwork than than they are athletic/physical. The problem will be it is far from a sure thing that he’ll ever be able to fix those things. That said, his work ethic and intangibles, and demonstrated improvement over the past year make me hopeful. Plus, the physical can be overrated in terms of team success (see Bernie Kosar)…. TT’s footwork/mechanical issues may keep him from being the next Elway/P.Manning/etc., but he could still be the next Rich Gannon, Bernie Kosar, etc…. and if he fixes his issues, the sky is the limit.
I can't remeber Cutler
every taking responsibility for an INT like Tebow did last sunday. Most of the time it was the WR fault
by gnarlybroncodude on Dec 29, 2010 5:55 PM MST up reply actions
Before Tebow started.. Bronco fan had nothing and I mean NOTHING to feel good about
Now even thou many want to be objective and reserved about Tebows meaning to this team … Man There is a BUZZ out there..can’t help but want to watch this kid and more importantly This Team.. Too much " Crystal Ball " watching about about all that is wrong with Tebow… Dear Lord there is a lot Right about this kid. He has inspired this Team in ways they have not been in awhile. Our Broncos are rallying around him and so are many fans . Do NOT bet against this kid many have and many will continue , but it is undeniable that Tebow has changed our outlook for the Broncos. He has done this with just TWO GAMES no running game No catching TE and a bad defense.. Let the Magic
Begin
" He conquers who endures."
by bloodwell on Dec 29, 2010 10:03 AM MST reply actions 7 recs
IT IS OKAY TO BELIEVE.....Really
I have been a Bronco’s fan for over 23 years. This is the first time since the Elway era that there is a Pronounced “BUZZ” about Tebow and the Broncos. Maybe because of all the crap that has happened the past four months to the Broncos, we just want to believe. To Believe in something positive for the Broncos.
After Bad trades, massive and untimely injuries, death and coaching deficiencies…WE AS FANS just want to Believe. It is okay to Believe. And if you as a Broncos fan need more time to Believe, that is okay too.
Tebow is Here NOW, and in one man’s opinion Tebow will be here for the forseeable future.
IT IS OKAY TO BELIEVE .. or NOT!
TIME TO BELIEVE. BRONCO Champions are being forged as we speak
We hope yoou got it right...
I think it is too early for proclamations of greatness….but your post only suggests that it might be present, so I can gladly support that…as fans, we can and should embrace the possible…and possibly Tebow will be the real deal.
That said, I worry about the pressure all this places on Tebow himself…no way he can be immune to it, and even though he seems to have the intestinal fortitude and strength of character …and broad enough shoulders…to carry the expectations, it is still a lot to place the hopes and dreams of an entire fan base atop those shoulders…he needs to develop…get good coaching….have more good games…..and also, some really bad games…see how he recovers from adversity…that will be the true measure of the man. All of us hope that your article is an accurate crystal ball though…I just hope Tebow himself is sheilded from the lofty expectations that we all have in him…
What if you don't know Jack....but Jack knows you?
Same kind of fan pressure was placed on Elways shoulders - perhaps even more so.
If he can handle it and thrive under it, then we may have a suitable heir to the empty Elway throne.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Aint *THAT* the truth
Elway the savior. Passed on baseball, dissed Baltimore and came to raise Denver up to the highest highs!
And damned near got run out of town in a cattle car, LOL.
You don’t get to make the mistakes Elway did anymore. That is the one big reason I believe we have to have our rookies sitting for a year. But hey, I don’t run things.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 29, 2010 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
We may yell and scream sometimes, but I actually think we will forgive Tim's mistakes just as we did John's
As long as we believe (to borrow Tim’s brilliant assertion) that there is a chance we’ll see a game like this last one, we’ll be on the edge of our seats and supporting 15.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:21 PM MST up reply actions
And with Elway coming back to the fold, that will be a great guding forse for Tebow!
FIRE JOE ELLIS!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
How many QB's
have been put through this vicious next Elway stuff. Tebow will be what he will be, good or great I hope to soon find out. As a former coach you I love his intensity and how his team follows his lead. Orton just never projected that, I like Orton but Tebow brings other abilities to the table Kyle can’t. Tebow doesn’t need to be the best QB, he just needs to lead his team to the best of his abilities. Last I knew there was some elite QB’s that haven’t won a superbowl. Peyton may be the best QB ever, but he has only one ring and alot of records, if not all of them before he retires.
It's the price a QB pays to play in Denver.
I think Tebow is the first guy that has come along that will truly “get” it and embrace it.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Enough Already!!
I discovered the Mile High Report just before this years draft. What I read made me excited for a new season of Bronco’s football. The attitude seemed positive overall and was very informative regarding the rules of the game. And then came the Draft and Tebow. Everything seemed to go south from there. So many people came out to comment on what a horrible choice Tebow was, how he couldn’t play in the NFL, how he can’t throw properly, how he isn’t good enough to lead a team! That is all speculation!! Watch any documentary on past winners and you will see how all of them were doubted by critics for one reason or another, but somehow, they rose above it all and succeeded. I hope that is what Tebow will do and I will be behind him until he proves to be less than I think he can be. I know that folks need to present all sides of issues otherwise this site would be covered with rainbows and unicorns!! But enough already, lighten up and enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts and offer some positive energy to a difficult season!!
by Broncos#1 on Dec 29, 2010 10:31 AM MST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I believe my post here was a positive endorsement of Tebow. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Yeah
MHR is the most “positive” site I have found online, almost to a fault some times. :)
However, I see no fault in hoping for the best with Tebow and looking at it as the “glass is half full” going into next year.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 10:41 AM MST up reply actions
You have missed some of my more damning posts then haven't you? lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Well...
Being unnecessarily negative out of frustration doesn’t accomplish anything. Having a positive attitude – while striving to remain realistic – is a lot more helpful when it comes to accomplishing things. Plus, a positive atmosphere is a more pleasant place to be – there’s enough yelling and fighting and flaming and trolling on the internet as it is.
Not to mention, it is easier to sleep at night when you feel like you have something to look forward to. Why be a downer?
Got Tebow?
by TheMastermind on Dec 29, 2010 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
precisely
Doesn’t take any more genius to rip a team apart than it does to be a homer. Most folks here fall somewhere within that range, rather than the extremes. Critical thought does not preclude hope.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:23 PM MST up reply actions
Wait wait wait.....
Don’t you start trying to lump everyone together and be all unificatory. We have well defined sides, and they make me comfortable. I’m not about to go start agreeing with someone I had an argument with yesterday. What do you think this is…. IAOFM or something? Namby-Pamby land (*$&&#&$
-Harvey J. Neptune
Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.
Pro-Bowl Press Conference:
Interviewer: Do you want to wink to the three teams that cut you and tell them, "I told you so?"
Brandon Lloyd: "No, I want to say, ‘F— you,’ and I mean that in the most professional way."
Oh yeah, well F#@$!!! McDaniels!!
.. Wait. …
What side was I on again?
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
Really?
Do we need to find you some self respect?
Namby Pamby Land
Oh lala lala la lala
Pick up that box of tissues Harv
:D
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
LOL.... Chillax, man!
-Harvey J. Neptune
Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.
Pro-Bowl Press Conference:
Interviewer: Do you want to wink to the three teams that cut you and tell them, "I told you so?"
Brandon Lloyd: "No, I want to say, ‘F— you,’ and I mean that in the most professional way."
I agree with your sentiment about the timing of the change.
Interesting how a successful college QB who had never played an NFL game divided the community. Still is interesting now, but any analysis of the “why” would be speculation.
After the game Sunday the players, particularly on defense made a statement...
That’s all I needed to hear. Sure Tebow might struggle some, but in the end if he stays healthy, I believe he will be a good one…He won’t give up and he certainly won’t let his team mates give up either…That’s a trait you can’t teach a player…They just have it!
Speaking of staying healthy,
that is very important, and Tebow seems very rugged, even with his stye of play.
Another thing I’ve noticed is how personal the other guys on the field take it when someone gets a questionable hit on Tebow.
Let's put the 'D' back in Denver
Yes, and it's Studesville's fault
He needs to stop calling QB keepers, as it increases Tebow’s chance for injury, as well as the potential for fights and personal fouls. LPayers will rally to their QB, who is their franchise right now. It will often lead to fights.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Really falls on McCoy
He is the one calling the plays
McCoy seems to be taking the blinders off Tim
and opening up (finally!) the play book, so hopefully we’ll see a little less of the keeper stuff. But it’s also part of Tim’s game, instinctually, and it’s not going to change.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:32 PM MST up reply actions
I didn't follow college football but I can see now why Tebow is so compelling
There’s enough questions to have some skepticism about him as an NFL quarterback and, yet, there’s no denying that there was something special about him last weekend. The mile high magic was back.
He was already leading jersey sales before he even started a game and if he continues with the kind of heroics he showed last weekend, there’s going to be a cult of personality around him like nothing we’ve seen before. I don’t see how the Broncos can go forward any other way than trying to make sure it is with Tebow as the quarterback.
The fact that he’s unconventional and unpolished just adds to his aura. And more importantly, he’s been dismissed and counted out, so there’s a sense in which you root for him not only for what he does to the Broncos but to see hardwork, leadership, moxy, etc. win out over the NFL establishment cynicism that said he wouldn’t amount to much.
He’s the most compelling thing to happen to the Broncos in years and I can’t wait to watch how it will all unfold,
by Broncos2009 on Dec 29, 2010 11:44 AM MST reply actions 3 recs
Hypocrisy
One of the things I don’t understand is how Tebow is receiving #1 pick criticism, when he was a low first round pick. I realize how many picks we traded for him (mostly picks we had accumulated through other trades that day when Rolando was no longer available at #12), but he wasn’t drafted terribly far out of position.
There are times that I wonder if the negative stance in the media is a confluence of their view of him as a 2nd-3rd round pick combined with the idea that they have to mention him often because he boosts ratings (like Favre).
As a low first-round pick he’s doing great. As a top-5 pick, there are a lot of questions surrounding him. The reality, however, is that he is the former and not the latter.
The bad thing about doing nothing is that when you get tired, you can't stop and rest.
There hasn't really been a clear standard so it contributes to the confusion
The extreme were the people who said he could be a good tight end and are basically saying he can’t even play qb in the league. These people are already starting to look bad. I’m pretty sure Mel Kiper said that right after Tebow was drafted.
Some just didn’t like that so much was given up for Tebow but that’s not Tebow’s fault.
Partly, he’s being held to the standard of being unbelievably successful in college and so it is not going out on a limb to say that he won’t be able to duplicate that in the NFL. But that’s an unfair standard since pretty much no one in the NFL is that successful.
The ratings aspect, as you say, is there as well because of the enormous interest. The media both benefits and contributes to the polarization of the debate.
By the standards of a QB’s second game strating ever, he’s been an enormous success but you’d never guess that from his detractors, who will likely shift their standard of succes upwards and hope that nobody notices.
by Broncos2009 on Dec 29, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
Great points Maximus and B2009
Agree completely
IMHO, I think that the
entire team will respond very well to the “underdog, no respect, you guys can’t play” mentality that Tebow brings to the table. Players want to play their very best for a guy like that. First to hit the practice field, last to leave, first to hit the weight room, last to leave, first to hit the playbook, last to put it down. C’mon MHR, we have ourselves a bonafide winner and someone that not only the teams but the fans can rally behind and around. Cant wait for Sunday when SD comes to town cuz we got a bone to pick with em!
A Question
Personally I love Tebow. But I’ve been following the Elway saga and I don’t hear an endorsement from Elway in what I’ve read so far. The way I take it Elway thinks there is a better option than Tebow. I think Elway is going to have major influence in the next starting Broncos quarterback. What do you guys think ? Am I off base? Tim?
Elway loves Tebow, and said so in the preseason
There was a lot of press on it.
Elway’s statements on Luck were just blown out of proportion.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
Elway has only said really good things about Tebow, but yeah, if he becomes the head of Football Operations, then we better know who he wants at QB.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
He's not down on Tim
He’s in evaluation mode. Any new QB would receive the same scrutiny in this situation. Even John.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Dec 29, 2010 2:30 PM MST up reply actions
This!
Is correct. Your VP of operations does not commit to an employee in a meeting when he has not even hired the managers yet. People blew this out of proportion.
by Brian Conrad on Dec 29, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions
Lots of questions few answers
Alot will be made and said of what Elways says publically. How the questions are asked to elicit those responses is what has to be thought of before you can fully understand what is really being said. As a former Standford grad Elway will no doubt will give more praise just due to his own personal bias and pride for his former school. It is no different for any one else here. John has said good things about Tebow as well, time will tell and nothing else.
Luck
I thought when they were in position to get Luck didn’t Elway say they should do it ? Thats e what it sounded like to me so I took that as he thought there was better options than Tebow, like Andrew Luck,Maybe I read too much into everything
Elway said if Luck was available they would have to consider drafting him
That doesn’t mean Elway wanted to draft him or prefers Luck over Tebow. It’s saying they will consider all possibilities. Those comments definitely didn’t mean that if available Elway thinks we should take Luck. It means that all possibilities would be considered and evaluated.
Many people misconstrued that statement and read far too into it. It was probably an answer to a direct question as well. Reporter: If Luck was on the board when you pick would you consider it? Elway: Of course, we will consider all options to try to make the team better. The spin: Elway wants to draft Luck! Doesn’t believe in Tebow!
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
To me, Elway saying that is no different than
McD listening to trade offers for Cutler. Yet McD is demonized for it. Double standard.
-Harvey J. Neptune
Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.
Pro-Bowl Press Conference:
Interviewer: Do you want to wink to the three teams that cut you and tell them, "I told you so?"
Brandon Lloyd: "No, I want to say, ‘F— you,’ and I mean that in the most professional way."
Not really.
He said it was a great question and would need to be considered…which is not a endorsement of either side.
Thanks
Thanks for clarifing. If they don’t go defense for the first couple of picks I’ll be disapointed as hell
Dude,,,,,,,,,,,, You nailed it!
With Elway, Staubach, Manning & HOPEFULLY Tebow, needing a touchdown, 80 yards and less than 2 minutes on the clock you just knew you had ’em where you wanted ’em.
You were going to win and the QB would will them to victory. I never felt that way with Cutler or Orton or anyone else since John, maybe there was a glimmer of hope with Jake the Snake.
This is the IT that Josh saw & kept talking about. I am not going to rehash the McD fiasco but I hope that his legacy will be, bringing back the Magic to Mile High! Thanks for the post!
Go Broncos Go Tebow
Don't forget Bradshaw
I know a lot of people are down on him these days. Personally I find him funny as heck.
Terry Bradshaw was Staubach’s nemesis and had his own share comeback wins.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
Nostalgia time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lSKijTma9I
For those of you think Tebow running is NOT what a QB is supposed to do, well here is a clip of the MASTER and my personal favorite Bronco memory of ALL-TIME.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpnqfZ3cyeY&feature=related
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Wow
How could you not love that? And want it again. Tebow? Are you watching??
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
ooooooooo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXIt_9l023o&feature=related
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
I have the biggest Grin!!!
Yes!!!!
Don’t know Tim, I may hate you for this. I love those memories and so scared I will not get to feel that way again.
Mr. Tebow, I really hope your supporters are right!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
42 McSpeed200 1, xxxxx 139 80.1
drooling like Homer Simpson.... wow.
What an ugly windup that guy had. LOL.
-Harvey J. Neptune
Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.
Pro-Bowl Press Conference:
Interviewer: Do you want to wink to the three teams that cut you and tell them, "I told you so?"
Brandon Lloyd: "No, I want to say, ‘F— you,’ and I mean that in the most professional way."
My goodness, talk about an over-reaction
to 2 ok games. And that is about it. He did OK
Doesn’t mean he is God nor Ryan Leaf
Take the stick out of your arse.
Can’t you see this post is merely made out of sheer excitement? What’s not to be excited about? Man, some folks really trip me out.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Hell hath no fury as a Tebow scorned. lol
Relax…it’s called being excited over a huge comeback win and hoping it translates into long term success.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
If a 17 point come from behind win is just OK for you
You must not enjoy the game the game much.
"as in football so in life"
Let's prepare
for a loss to SD though. Tough D and a above avg. O. This will be quite a challenge for TT and the offense, and quite ffrankly, I can’t see our D stopping their O. I am looking forward to seeing TT compete against a D of this level. Either way it’s going to be fun and I am still excited about the future.
by rubincarterrocks on Dec 29, 2010 9:53 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
They have owned us since 2006, so it wouldn’t surprise me.
Even though neither team really has anything other than pride to play for, you would think SD would be more down having just been eliminated last week and Denver might be more amped up and step up at home,,, or at least I can tell myself.
Let's put the 'D' back in Denver
I expect us to come out swinging, and the Chargers to be flat.
It’s usually the other way around, but I suspect that will not be the case this time.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Yep, I would be very surprised if Denver came out flat, and I expect the stadium to be rocking.
Let's put the 'D' back in Denver
by plainview88 on Dec 29, 2010 10:36 PM MST up reply actions
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