Elway V. Manning - Expanded

This is a follow-up post to my most recent blog post. I must respond to the Peyton Manning/John Elway debate.

I understood that putting Elway #2 on my all-time list would cause a stir and for obvious reasons that is to be expected. I felt the need to elaborate further on my reasoning.

First off, John Elway is my reason for being a Bronco fan. There is no other player in all of NFL History I am a fan more of than John MF Elway. I have watched a majority of the games he played as a pro and I am beyond qualified to levy judgement on his overall ability and impact on the NFL.

What made John Elway great was that he could play like crap for 3+ quarters of a game and then suddenly become superhumanly good. Winning the game. Fully 1/3 of Elway's career victories were fourth quarter steals. This is what made him great. Without that quality he would have been a .500 quarterback and a bust.

However, Elway rarely commanded and controlled an entire game from start to finish. Blame this on Dan Reeves? No. Otherwise you'd have to blame Wade Phillips as well.

People talked about talent differences between the Colts of today and the Broncos of the 80's. I would surmise that the difference is not as great as it appears. On hindsight, players like Jackson, Winder, Johnson appear to be less than stellar. Yet at the time, they were considered stars. Who didn't have a poster of the Three Amigos on their wall in the 80's right?

I know that statement is debateable, but what about defense? The Broncos had a solid defensive unit in the 80's that helped Elway and the offense stay in the game even when Elway was tossing interceptions around like candy for the first three quarters. The Colts defense is serviceable, but is completely overrated in my opinion.

Peyton Manning's greatness is in his ability to control and command the outcome of a game. Plus he can will his team to victory late. No quarterback in NFL history has dominated the position as consistently as Peyton Manning. It pains me to say it and I despise the man personally - the Broncos have no answer for him.

The one aspect of John Elway that surpasses Peyton Manning is Elway's success in the playoffs. The Broncos had just 3 of their 17 wins in the playoffs without Elway. The dude was money when the games mattered most.

Peyton Manning has measured success in the playoffs as well, but I think we can all agree that Elway had a magic about him in the postseason.

The thing with that is I consider the Colts to be a wholly average football team. I see them as 4-12 without Manning, even if they drafted a guy to replace him.

The Broncos were a 10-6 team when Elway took over in 1983(not counting strike shortened screw job that was 1982). I think we, as Bronco fans, tend to discredit the 80's team as a piece of crap just because of Elway.

We say the Broncos had no business playing in those three Super Bowls, but I disagree totally with that assertion. Those Bronco TEAMS earned the right to vie for a Championship three times. The problem was that the NFC conference was so stacked with talent that no AFC team had any business playing in the Super Bowl.

When John Elway came to town, the team went 9-7 in his first year, then upped it to 13-3 a year later. During the 80's(not counting 1982), the Broncos averaged 10.1 wins per season. Elway took a 9-7 ball club (8-8 in 80, 10-6 in 81, 9-7 in 83) and turned them into a 10 win ball club. Statistically speaking he upped the team by 1 win per year, though we all know the difference Elway made in the playoffs exceeded the difference in the regular season.

Peyton Manning, on the other hand, went 3-13 in his first season. The Colts were 3-13 the year before his arrival as well, but then he lifted the Colts to a 13-3 record in just his second season. Then two years after that started a record run of 12-4 or better seasons.

If you look at the complete body of work, it is a close call. There are so many factors that go beyond simple statistics. Elway and his postseason brilliance, Mannings regular season dominance, both men are Super Bowl winners, ect.

I give Manning the edge because of his overall stats, his consistent regular season dominance, his 4 NFL MVPs, and his two meager Super Bowls.

You will notice that no other QB even enters the discussion. In my mind, there is a significant gap between these two players and the #3 all-time QB, Joe Montana.

As for those of you who think this degrades the site and will force members to leave permanently, sorry you feel that way. MHR is about discussion, not about getting drunk on the orange and blue koolaid. I drink with the best of them, but I have opinions and MHR is the place to share them - right, wrong, or indifferent.

Besides, I know what John Elway means to me and that hasn't changed one iota with the opinions shared here. I still despise Manning and I still adore Elway.

(My) Case Closed.