Mile High Report: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Phils, Astros complete Roy Oswalt deal

Draftivus: Don't Sleep On Me - Wide Receivers

To keep Brandon Marshall or not to keep Brandon Marshall, that isn't the question.

I don't think it matters what we do with BMarsh. McXanders will not take a first round wide receiver. I don't even think he takes a second or third round wide receiver.

Whatever you may think about our depth, we have everything we need at the position - with or without BMarsh. The idea of needing to have a Top 5 WR is one of the most overrated beliefs in football.  

To back this up, I will use the New England Patriots as my example.  They went to the Super Bowl and lost in 2007 with two top flight wide receivers in Randy Moss and Wes Welker, yet who were their starting wide receivers in 2004 when they actually won the Super Bowl?  Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patton.  Yeah.

I still think McDaniels will target a wide receiver in later rounds and after an exhaustive search for players who meet my criteria of talent, character, and scheme fit, I have come down with a list of five wide receivers and one potential kick/punt returner.

I will start with the kick/punt returner and then list the wide receivers in order, ending with the guy I hope we target first.  Some of these guys are higher ranked than others on draft boards, but it all comes down to value for me. Some guys are more valuable to me in later rounds than more talented guys in earlier rounds.  The post is a long one, but there were just too many good prospects not to cover here.

Trindon Holliday, WR, LSU
5'5", 162 lbs

This guy is almost too small to be considered.  However, his weight on his frame makes him somewhat more durable than one might think.  His size will also cause him to fall considerably in the draft, possibly even into the free agent market.

McDaniels cannot allow that to happen. My question is simple. Is a 7th round draft pick worth several huge kickoff and punt returns through the course of a season? I say absolutely and if it takes a late 6th round pick, then I would also be happy with it.

Star-divide

We all know how our special teams has languished without a consistent threat returning kicks. Holliday would instantly provide us with that threat.  He will get blown up occasionally, just like Eddie Royal does, but when he squeezes through with nothing but grass ahead of him - no one will catch him.

Andre Roberts, WR, Citadel
5'11", 192 lbs

I really like this kid. He hails from a military school, which means he will be disciplined and will have an excellent work ethic.  His is a wee bit undersized, but there have been plenty of 5'11" All-Pro wide receivers for me to overlook that. The only problem I have is that he is projected to go in the 4th round. I am hoping his small school status, size, and many other wide receiver prospects will cause him to fall to the 6th or 7th rounds.  If that happens, the Broncos should try to snatch him up.

Let's see what CBS Sports had to say about him:

Release: Good straight-line speed and superior quickness. Quick first step off the line, and separates from defenders after a cut or once past the second level with great acceleration. Will need to learn how to beat the jam from pro corners, but won't back away from the challenge.

We have all seen how a wide receiver will struggle to make an impact if they are unable to fight through a corner jamming them at the line.  Our own Eddie Royal has to figure out a way to get open when pressed.  Some guys learn how to do this, some don't.  Andre tends to work hard and hard work is a good way to fix any potential problems.

Hands: Makes the easy catch consistently, and can make difficult catches look easy. Strong hands and good vertical in jump-ball situations, albeit against smaller FCS corners. Can track the ball over either shoulder. Maintains control of the ball after taking a hit down the sideline. Secure with the ball as a punt returner.

I find it hard to judge his actual ability here as it is easy to shine against inferior opponents.  However, many greats hail from schools like this.  Shannon Sharpe comes to mind.  I wish I could have found some film of him making catches with defenders all over him.  That is what the NFL is all about.

Route running: Most receptions come on screens, drag routes or down the sideline. Separates from nickel corners on quick outs, and can stop on a dime after securing the ball to head upfield. Will need to learn the finer points of route-running to find holes in zones from the slot, but his quick feet and sure hands should allow him to excel.

Good thing the Broncos run a lot of screens.  The NFL is all about timed routes.  Catching the ball in zones or man-to-man isn't all that big of a deal if the wide receiver is open at the time the quarterback expects him to be where he is supposed to be.  Finding holes in zones, I think, may happen more when the wide receiver has several different routes he could run as the play develops.  That's something I expect from a veteran, not a rookie.

After the catch: Very elusive after the catch, often turning short throws into big gains using quick reverse moves, vision and acceleration. Protects the ball well, and plays stronger than his wiry frame would indicate. Fights for additional yardage after initial contact. Nice first step, cut back and quick acceleration on punt returns, but NFL special teams units will be tougher to gain yardage against.

This is what sold me on this kid.  Plays must be made after the ball is in your hands and Roberts takes the ball and makes plays.  Brandon Marshall is not a great wide receiver because he can catch a ball, he is great because he takes the ball and makes great things happen.  As for his punt return skills, the level of competition is no where near the NFL.  So I agree with CBS Sports analysis here.

Blocking: Willing downfield and goal-line blocker, but lacks the size and hand technique to sustain against larger corners. Could give more consistent effort maintaining the inside angle and getting to defenders in the open field. Gets a body on a defender to seal back-side edge when run blocking from motion.

Typical wide receiver in this regard.  A Hine Ward-like blocker is a rarity.  All we can ask is that he is willing and puts forth maximum effort.

Intangibles: Hard worker on and off the field, as is expected from students of a military school. Quiet leader, well-liked by his coaches. Received the South Carolina Athletic Hall of Fame's annual Bobby Richardson Sportsmanship Award in May 2009.

All around, I would love to have a guy like Andre Roberts on the Denver Broncos depth chart.  He may never ascend to a #1 guy, but he could be dangerous in three or four wide receiver sets.  Not quite worth a fourth round pick in my opinion, but the farther he falls the more valuable he becomes.

Verran Tucker, WR, California
6'2", 184 lbs

Tucker is a solid prospect out of California who would make a fine addition to the practice squad. He has shown flashes of ability in his senior season, but is still considered a project, and many consider the drop-off in production from his junior to senior campaigns to be a bit of a red flag.  

I know I keep bringing up former Broncos, but who really minds hearing the names of former Bronco greats?  Rod Smith was once a practice squad player who went undrafted.  Tucker may not become the next Rod Smith, but the Broncos would serve themselves well to continue to bring in solid depth to compete against in practice.

Verran Tucker is graded out as a 7th rounder, but I think he will end up going undrafted.  An easy practice squad sign right here.

Release: Still developing his technique in this area, but has enough lateral agility and suddenness to defeat press coverage. Eats up the cushion against zone coverage and has a second gear to get behind the defense.

Hands: Better than expected. Shows soft hands to pluck the ball out of air, as well as the long arms to extend outside of his framework. Good body control to adjust to the poorly throw pass behind or low. A natural leaper who times his jump well and catches the ball at its highest point. May be able to make an immediate impact in the NFL as a red-zone target on fade routes due to this ability.

Route running: Quicker feet than you'd expect for a long, skinny-legged athlete, but remains quite raw in this area. Flashes the ability to plant his foot and drive for the slant route, but too often rounds off his longer routes, including the deep out and post, which will lead to NFL defensive backs easily recognizing the play. More sudden acceleration than most receivers his size, but is still learning how to use this to his advantage.

After the catch: Relies on his burst to slip by tacklers, rather than showing the strength his size would indicate to break free. Some lateral agility to elude, but isn't going to make a lot of plays on his own when he isn't hit in stride. Too often goes down to the first defender. Does have the burst to get free and into the open field, but lacks the elite speed to pull away.

Blocking: Doesn't offer much in this area. Possesses a long, lanky build with little overall muscle definition. Gets in the way of the defender, but doesn't have enough strength or the toughness yet to sustain blocks for long.

Intangibles: Isn't yet a finished product, as he only began playing football as a high school senior and has only five years experience, overall. Has the athleticism teams are looking for, but may struggle with a complicated playbook. Originally signed with a junior college due to his inability to score high enough on placement tests for a D-I school. Struggled academically during his time at Cal.

 There is no doubt the kid is raw and his academic struggles are a concern. A solid coach and mentor would go a long way in helping him develop into a contributing player on the depth chart.  I have him graded a bit higher than he probably deserves, but that is with his expectation of being a CFA.  He is at least worth a look at in my opinion.

David Gettis, WR, Baylor
6'3", 217 lbs

Projected as an early fifth round prospect, he could see his stock rise due to his size.  I think he would be a very valuable pick up in the fifth round, but any earlier and it could become a risky proposition.  Gettis is still too raw to make any kind of impact in his rookie year.

He could turn out to be a diamond in the rough, much like Brandon Marshall turned out to be.  Gettis suffered early on with a lacking work ethic, but all reports lead to him having changed that. 

Release: Has moves and strength to get past press coverage, but must be more quick and violent with his hands to beat the jam. Accelerates quickly off the line and gets past most corners with his long strides.

I like violence.  Will he be strong enough to man handle smaller corners?   I think so.

Hands: Catches nearly everything thrown his way, but traps the ball against his chest too often; needs to trust his large and strong hands and catch the ball away from his frame. Extends to grab wide throws and reaches above his head to snare high throws, exhibiting good body control in the air.

This sounds a lot like the big man already catching balls for the Denver Broncos.  BMarsh has shown marked improvement over the past three seasons in regards to catching the ball with his hands rather than his body.  I am not too worried about the chest catching, that can be coached.

Route running: Uses his size and length to get physical separation, and his long strides are hard for corners to match when running full tilt down the sideline. Sells the deep route, but has better foot quickness than expected for his size when stopping to curl or turn outside. Working on sinking his hips to get into and out of cuts more fluidly.

Gettis is not a Top 5 deep threat, but he would be better than anyone on the Broncos right now.  That respect for the deep ball would open up the middle of the field for other receivers.  Kyle Orton proved he can throw deep with accuracy, but most of the time our slow wide receiver core has been unable to break free down the field.  Gettis would give us that threat in most games.

After the catch: Possesses acceleration and elusiveness not expected of large receivers. Also able to stiff arm and run through smaller would-be tacklers in the secondary. Used on quick screens. Though he's taller than most kick returners, he has a chance to contribute there because he has a bit of elusiveness and hits holes at full stride.

Ignore the part about kick returns, that's just bullcrap.  I'm sorry, but elusiveness in college will rarely translate to elusiveness in the NFL for a guy this big.  Players are just too fast.  As for his after-the-catch abilities, I found myself impressed by this kids abilities to gain critical yards after first contact.

Blocking: Uses his size to neutralize corners in the run game or on quick screens, dropping his hips and extending to keep them from ripping off. Needs to consistently give the effort to get to a target.

Has the size to be a solid blocker in the run game, but like most wide receivers, he does not give consistent effort. He'll need to be browbeaten out of that habit or he won't be invited to play in the final game of the season.  Ha

Intangibles: Took him some time to become a regular contributor despite his physical attributes. Puts effort in on the field now, however, gaining the respect of his teammates and coaches - and now looks to be ascending up draft boards in a similar way.

It's easy to put in effort when someone tells you it is hurting your draft stock.  I'd wait to proclaim him "cured" of his lack of effort until he is seen in action during training camp.  This is a major reason why I would prefer to see the Broncos take him no earlier than the fifth round.

Seyi Ajirotutu, WR, Fresno State
6'3". 211 lbs

If you can say his name five times in a row, I commend you.  Put him in the finalist list for "Coolest Name in the Draft" Contest.  I like Ajirotutu because he clicked well with Tom Brandstater and has the size and speed to be a solid wide receiver threat in the NFL.

My only minor point of contention with him is that he snubbed my Boise State Broncos after he scored MVP honors in the California High School State Championships.  Using that to, instead, sign on at Fresno State.  It turned out to be the worst choice, after all, Boise State is the best team in the nation - it just gets no respect.  

Release: At least moderate initial quickness and use of hands to avoid the jam at the line of scrimmage against press coverage. Smooth acceleration downfield, but is a bit of a long-strider who doesn't get to top-end speed immediately. Rare timed speed for a player of his size.

His long stride will prove to make Seyi a dangerous deep threat receiver.  Corners will think they are staying with him when they look back, only to have Seyi turn it up a notch.  I like that, especially for a sixth round pick.

Hands: Soft hands to pluck the ball outside of his frame. Good concentration to make the reception in traffic. Times his leaps well to catch passes over defenders. Can track the ball over either shoulder.

This ability is what sets Ajirotutu apart from those I profiled before him.  Catching in traffic is the single most important skill a wide receiver can develop when it comes to pure catching.  There is not much difference in talent among NFL players, so most of a players catches will be in the midst of one or more defenders. 

Route running: Can drop his hips and shows some burst out of his breaks to gain separation, but needs to be more consistent in this area. Too often rounds off his routes and relies on his size and speed advantages to get open. Good exterior threat for the deep ball.

His tendency to round his routes can be coached.  My belief in his deep threat capabilities is only confirmed more by that last statement.  

After the catch: Build-up speed is enough to pull away from defenders once he has the ball in his hands, but he lacks the agility and explosive acceleration to elude if he's not hit in stride. Has to do a better job of securing the ball (lost two fumbles as a senior).

His biggest drawback and likely the reason he will fall to the fifth or sixth rounds.  Still will be an excellent deep threat, but other than that, don't expect much in the way of yards after the catch.  His ball control could be an issue, but every player goes through a bit of fumbilitis.

Blocking: Good size, strength and toughness as a blocker. Appears to take his role as a blocker seriously. Not afraid to work his way toward the action for the seal block on the linebacker. Good effort downfield to stalk and sustain.

Well, there you have your Hines Ward-like blocker, but can he become a Hines Ward-like wide receiver?  I'm not so sure.  I think Seyi Ajirotutu could become a solid #3 or 4 wideout on the depth chart.  That deep threat guy who can open up the middle of the field for guys like Royal or BMarsh.  

Intangibles: Reliable performer with 34 career starts (in 40 games). Competitive player at his best in one-on-one situations - i.e. jump balls and blocking on the edge. No known off-field issues or injury concerns, other than the ankle injury which sidelined him for much of the 2006 season.

His durability will ensure continuity for whichever team adds him to their depth chart.  His ability to be a top receiver is unknown, but there is little doubt that he can find a niche somewhere on the depth chart.  The deep threat ability is more than enough to land him a roster spot somewhere.

Danario Alexander, WR, Missouri
6'5", 221 lbs

We're finally here.  My #1 must have late rounder wide receiver.  Danario Alexander led the NCAA in receiving yards and should have been destined to be a first round pick.  However, his poor showing at the Senior Bowl and already three knee surgeries in his career have pushed his stock downward to the fifth or sixth rounds.  There are also his concerns about speed, but I've never been keen on 40 times and .09 difference doesn't phase me none.  Alexander has game speed and that is what matters the most.

That said, his injury history warrants concern.  Even so, I think the Broncos could spend a 4th rounder on him and still come out okay in my mind.  The risk would be high, but the thought of landing a first round talent in the fourth round would be awesome!  

In many ways, this is the guy I would be looking to draft to replace Brandon Marshall if the Broncos somehow part ways with him this offseason.

Release: Used in the slot quite often, not often faced with the jam. Lacks a quick get-off from the line, but has the physical tools to muscle his way past corners down the sideline or inside for slants. Separates using size and acceleration once free.

He would have to become an outside possession receiver to make it in the NFL.  He is too big and strong to be wasted in the slot.  He may not have to have a quick get-off the line ability if he can out jump and out muscle cornerbacks.

Hands: Very good hands, only the occasional drop when trying to make a play after the catch. Gets to passes others wouldn't because of his height and exceptional leaping ability. Athleticism and strong hands allow him to win jump balls. Good red-zone target for that reason; also uses his body to shield defenders on slant routes. Very good body control, extends for high throws over the middle and gets his feet down to stay in-bounds on sideline passes. Traps balls against his chest when facing the quarterback.

His pass catching abilities are obviously first round talent and he would allow McDaniels to call more aggressive plays and allow Orton to throw riskier passes, confident in Alexander's ability to snatch the ball out of the air more often than not.

Route running: Usually lines up in the slot so he can work the middle of the field. Needs to work on a head fake to sell seam route before heading to the corner. Rounds off routes too often, failing to sink his hips. Takes advantage of open zones inside where footwork isn't as crucial.

The guy is not afraid to go over the middle and does not shy from contact.  His route running can be coached up, but his willingness to take punishment cannot.

After the catch: At his best when catching the ball on the run, using his long strides to beat defenders down the field. Used on receiver screens to get the ball in his hands in motion. Slow to accelerate when stopped on a route, but is tough to catch once in his stride. Able to change directions after the catch or make a quick sidestep to avoid defenders, but lacks quick-twitch elusiveness. Defenders bounce off him when failing to wrap up, and he runs with good balance after that contact to drive forward for additional yards. Good stiff arm in the open field.

He is a big man and big men are harder to bring down.  He doesn't quite have the agility that Brandon Marshall does, but he has shown he can plod his way through defenders for extra yardage.  What a tandem he and BMarsh could become...

Blocking: As physical as he wants to be blocking for the run, with a chance to be really good. Handles small defenders well using aggression and length to hold them off, usually just a one-arm shove takes them out of the play. Will need to bend his knees and move his feet more quickly to mirror and sustain against NFL corners who will out-quick him in space.

As physical as he wants to be.  I don't like that comment.  If he wants to be a top flight receiver, he needs to be as physical as he must be in the running game.  He needs to take pride in punishing the defenders.  If he can't do that, he'll find himself on the bench on first and second downs.

Intangibles: Constantly works with his quarterback and in the film room to be a better receiver. Showed great work ethic to come back after injuries, but his medical record is still an issue. Coaches have nothing but kind words about him.

Danario Alexander has what it takes to be a starter in the NFL someday and his value has dropped significantly enough for the Broncos to capitalize and draft a "diamond in the rough" here.  I'd be very pleased if we nabbed both Alexander and Trindon Holliday.  We will have upgraded our special teams unit and our wide receiver depth.

There are a plethora of other prospects out there, but these six players stuck out in my mind as having something to offer the Denver Broncos.  It will be interesting to see which way McXanders goes in later rounds, but I have to believe a wide receiver will be one of those late round picks.

Poll
Who is your late round wide receiver?
Trindon Holliday
53 votes
Andre Roberts
25 votes
Verran Tucker
10 votes
David Gettis
16 votes
Seyi Ajirotutu
46 votes
Danario Alexander
100 votes
Other...name in comments
21 votes

271 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs  |  Comment 95 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Marcus Easley (6-2, 220, UConn). Most scouts view him as a one year wonder but he stepped up his production when the team desperately needed it. He has sub 4.5 speed to go with a larger body frame and runs good routes. He tend to body catch the ball at times but does have good hands.

by D1g1tal J1m on Feb 22, 2010 11:40 AM MST reply actions  

I considered him, but he didn't make the cut.

He just seemed far too raw and add the one year wonder part of it…if he goes undrafted I think he would make an excellent practice squad player. He definitely needs a year or two to develop.

Good choice though, Easley was certainly on my short list of considerations. :)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions  

Once he runs a sub 4.4 at the combine with his size (which is now listed around 6’ 3" 220+) we will defiantly be drafted and will not go undrafted.

by D1g1tal J1m on Feb 22, 2010 12:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Then I hope the Broncos don't draft him.

I am more concerned about his poor route running and questionable hands than I am with 40 times. Then again, McXanders might disagree with me. lol

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 12:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Voted Denario Alexander...

Also like DemaryiasThomas (Georgia Tech) and Jordan Shipley (Texas), although they may both be gone by early 3rd round…BTW Tim, did you do any work on Carlton Mitchell (South Florida)???

-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

by BroncoSense72 on Feb 22, 2010 11:53 AM MST reply actions  

I didn't. He grades out in the third round, so I bypassed him to later round prospects.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 11:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Ahh, another well deserved (what were you thinking) slap to the back of my head..."Later Rounds = 5-7"

-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!

by BroncoSense72 on Feb 22, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Perhaps an early to mid round post is warranted considering how many WR prospects there are this year....

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 12:11 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree completely about WR's in general.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to spend a first round pick on a guy who will touch the ball 8 (maybe 10) times a game. Marshall’s 21 catch performance notwithstanding, plus we all know how that turned out (loss). Out of sixty snaps or so, I just don’t see that as good value.

Obviously, this is my opinion only, I know that others won’t agree because any one of those 8 catches could be a game changer. But then again, how often does one pass change a game? I can only think of one game (that I watched) from last year and that was Stoke’s who won the game on the next to last play of the game. And Stokley is not exactly your prototypical WR (in today’s NFL – 6’2" and above).

It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?

aka Solace

by Jason Witte on Feb 22, 2010 12:06 PM MST reply actions  

I tend to agree.

Second round is about as high as I would be willing to draft a WR…it just doesn’t make sense to go WR in the first round. Too many elite LTs, DT, LB…every down, every play kind of players.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

there's no doubt WRs out there worth a first rounder to some teams.

To land one of the five or six ‘game changing’ WRs would sure be nice to line up across from Marshall… but no way is that guy clearly there for us. Draft to our needs Broncos. The Trenches!

by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 22, 2010 2:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I like All of these players, and I wonder what you think about

Eric Decker from Minnesota. Stock seems to be regressing to the 4th round for some reason.

by Sayre Bedinger on Feb 22, 2010 12:16 PM MST reply actions  

You probably know more than I do. :)

Perhaps his stock is dropping because of his injury. He was graded a second rounder, but if he is available in the 4th – he is worth a look for sure.

Danario appealed to me because of his pure talent, but his injury concerns and other non talent related issues dropped his stock – which makes him very appealing.

It’s a risk any time you take a guy with an injury history, but if it works you then you just used a low value draft pick on a high value talent. It’s easier to risk a pick on a guy with injury issues than it is to risk it on a guy with character issues. ;-) imho.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 12:24 PM MST up reply actions  

I love the way he plays the game,

he isn’t afraid to go after the ball in a crowd to make the catch. Fourth round you say, that IMO would be a steal.

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 22, 2010 12:41 PM MST up reply actions  

Big guys

We don’t need any more undersized WRs, we already have an army of guys who are 6’0 and below and Orton is clearly more comfortable throwing to a big guy, so for gods sake lets get someone who is 6’3 or more.

by gyldenlove on Feb 22, 2010 12:23 PM MST reply actions  

If you are talking totally late round or undrafted FA stuff

I like Kerry Meier WR, Kansas. He just seems to get open and make the catch when needed. Hard worker, ex-QB. This guy could become another Eddie Mac type player in my book.

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 22, 2010 12:38 PM MST reply actions  

Here's the NFP report on Kerry

Scouting Report:
Kerry Meier: No. 10, WR, 6-3, 220

A big, coordinated target who does a great job keeping his concentration downfield and high-pointing the ball, Meier exhibits excellent hands and has the ability to contort his body. He consistently comes down with the ball. He does a great job working himself free when plays break down, and he consistently is able to find soft spots in coverage. But he’s lacking as an athlete and struggles to fire off the snap. He seems to lumber into his routes. He doesn’t showcase the explosion to separate out of his breaks vs. man coverage on the outside and isn’t a guy who can get behind defenders vertically.

But he uses his body well to shield defenders from the ball and consistently is able to extend his long arms and pluck the ball away from his frame. Meier is a former quarterback who has a feel for the pass game and knows how to sell his routes. He displays deceiving short-area quickness for his size. He can gain a step, then use his size to do the rest. He doesn’t have the athletic ability to make a living on the outside and beat press coverage at the next level. But I love his hand/eye coordination and ability to go up and get the ball. He looks like a big slot guy who can come on the field and move the chains on third down.

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 22, 2010 12:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Sounds like a solid prospect.

Not sure if he fits well with what the Broncos need.

Is Royal going to be the slot replacement for Stokely? If not, then this dude is worth a look.

We still need a deep threat…the Broncos have no true vertical threat…

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 12:47 PM MST up reply actions  

That's why I don't really get your first few paragraphs...

It seems to me that the vertical threat is a crucial missing element (though Doc has made a strong case that McKinley has the potential, at least, to develop into that role). If Marshall were to be gone, too— I think this offense would be flatter than Phillip Rivers’ intellect. I’m not sure 100% on the first round receiver boat, but I tend to think they need to bolster that position in the first three rounds (Marshall or not), especially since the FA market offers nothing but the types of players we already have.

One of the reasons NE spent the money on Welker and Moss in the same offseason— and eventually extended Moss— is that the season between Branch and Moss was very unwhelming offensively for them. I don’t think the system trumps talent, especially when you don’t have a QB with the tools to enforce his will.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde

by PredominantlyOrange on Feb 22, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions  

I guess it comes down to how you see those WR's currently on the roster.

I value Royal and Gaffney as solid starters. Losing Marshall would hurt, but I don’t think the teams production would suffer a huge dropoff. We basically have no deep threat. So I guess my opening paragraph missed on that. Deion Branch is the missing cog on the Broncos offense. Deion Branch of New England, not Deion Branch of Seattle.

New England has not won a Super Bowl since “upgrading” their WR position….that was my point. I think fans and media alike put way too much value on the WR position. You need possession receivers starting in the slot and on the ouside…then you need a deep threat. You don’t need a single guy who is top 5 in everything.

Role players can replace the need for more expensive talent at this position. Spend the money on positions that make more of an impact on a play-by-play basis.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 1:11 PM MST up reply actions  

It is subjective, I guess...

It comes down to your opinion of existing personnel. But I personally would see it as disasterous for Denver to let Marshall go and do nothing to fill the void. I personally have my fingers crossed that Marshall stays and Denver drafts either Bryant, D. Thomas, or J. Ford. I think finding a way to stretch the defense gives Orton and Royal a better chance to shine, and those effects will ripple across the offense as a whole. The ball doesn’t necessarily always have to be in a guy’s hands for him to have an impact— and I think that applies equally to a hypothetical deep threat and BM. You still have to account for them.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde

by PredominantlyOrange on Feb 22, 2010 1:42 PM MST up reply actions  

I am all for keeping BMarsh...don't get me wrong there.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 2:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Winning the Super Bowl should not be your success metric for the importance of WRs.

Since they upgraded at WR, the Pats set an NFL record for the best O of all time. They are also always in contention with 11-5 type records. I think they are pretty happy with Welker and Moss wreaking all kinds of havoc vs Givens and Branch.

San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy

by McGeorge on Feb 22, 2010 3:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Hmm, winning Super Bowls should not be a metric of success.....?

San Diego SUPER CHARGERS! Go Dan Fouts! Go Chargers! You are great because you have a great offense. Super Bowls don’t matter…you have a great offense!

Don’t mean to be sarcastic there, but winning Super Bowls is THEE success metric man!!!!

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I will give you this point.

The Patriots passing offense is a better passing offense now than when it was winning Super Bowls. But I would prefer McDaniels build a great team rather than just a great passing offense. Corey Dillon rushed for 1600 yards that year they won their last Super Bowl…great WR’s are sexy to have on the roster, but its the workhorses that win Super Bowls. Why waste a high draft pick on a WR when you need to win games in the trenches???

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 5:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Actually I think we all know what he means

Is Alvin Harper a better WR than Heywood Jefferies because he won superbowls?

er …NOPE.

by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 22, 2010 7:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Totally agree on the vertical threat,

unless McKinley is developed there we don’t have anyone who could stretch the field on a consistent basis. I think there a several WR’s who could go in first three rounds that will have the ability to stretch the field. I wouldn’t mind someone like that in the 3rd or 4th round if available. I just don’t think WR is the real focus of this draft for the Broncos

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 22, 2010 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Maybe I'm in a hurry...

…but I guess I view it as a necessary ingredient to properly evaluate Kyle Orton. As long as defenses can sit on his bread-and-butter, he and the offense will be limited, and you still don’t know if he’s the long term answer. If it takes two more years to decide he’s not the guy, then add one or two years to the ‘reloading’ phase.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde

by PredominantlyOrange on Feb 22, 2010 2:05 PM MST up reply actions  

exactly...without a deep threat option, our offense will struggle to move the ball.

it’s all about respect…teams don’t respect our deep ball. lol

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 2:29 PM MST up reply actions  

And that's the thing...

…I like pretty much all the guys you listed— I’m just wondering if we need need to take a flier on a guy that has potential immediate impact.

I don’t know.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde

by PredominantlyOrange on Feb 22, 2010 3:04 PM MST up reply actions  

Drafting risks is always a bitch.

I am bias in that I am reserving rounds 1 through 3 for what I deam as major holes in our depth chart.

G, DE/DG, ILB, CB, even NT.

Everyone’s view of what our major holes are is different though…

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:38 PM MST up reply actions  

No doubt...

…I feel like a spoiled kid on Xmas. They can’t fill all the needs I see in one draft.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde

by PredominantlyOrange on Feb 22, 2010 4:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Problem is,

FA is probably going to be very limited. I don’t think there is as much talent there as what we would want to improve our team in all reality. Most the top receivers I would look at are RFAs, and that could end being more expensive than what they are really worth.

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 22, 2010 3:42 PM MST up reply actions  

RFA costs more than FA ? Only because they're generally guys teams want to keep...

We can be active as hell in regards to RFA’s! Hell we’ve still got the money we didn’t pay Cutler, BM or Our 1st round pick this year! Oh yeah, isn’t Shanny sending home some funds as well? If Bowlen truly plans on winning, I expect the Broncos to be even more active in free agency than they were last year… There is some real talent out there, especially in the trenches.

by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 22, 2010 7:57 PM MST up reply actions  

But remember there is a lot of non movement

in getting a new CBA on the table and signed. Remember part of what the owners are calling for on their side is to keep more money in their pockets, that will affect how this uncapped year gets approached and will directly affect how the teams approach FA this year. Since the UFA pool is fairly small and not laden with deep talent, the RFA market could become the focus. Because this is an uncapped year, the RFA market may be very active and expensiive or not very active at all. I say expensive because RFA already have a value placed on them by their current team, I would assume most teams desire to keep their RFAs in house if at all possible.

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 23, 2010 8:55 AM MST up reply actions  

McKinley

I worry about his ability to stay healthy and I’m glad that he essentially got a year to develop, but McKinley is very fast, quite elusive and can catch over his shoulder well. I’m hoping that he can fill that role

Don't say rebuild - say reload...

by Doc Bear on Feb 22, 2010 4:56 PM MST up reply actions  

I also wasn't all that impressed with what little I saw of him in game action.

Maybe we’ll see more next year. ;-)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 5:10 PM MST up reply actions  

He's young and I don't think much was expected immediately from him

as far as overall production goes. I thought we’d see more of him in the return game and that didn’t pan out either. I think he has the talent, but needs to figure out how to use it in this system and learn from his coaches and team mates..

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 23, 2010 8:59 AM MST up reply actions  

didn't look great on the field but didn't see him much.

I’ve a gut feeling about him. With his speed, if he’s any good, it’ll show right away in camp.

by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 22, 2010 7:59 PM MST up reply actions  

What about good old.

Riley Cooper?

Quit drinking the Kool-Aid and start drinking the good stuff, and everything is always alright.

by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Feb 22, 2010 12:50 PM MST reply actions  

Gaffney in the slot.

"Just trying to win a MF game."

by Digger24 on Feb 22, 2010 12:51 PM MST reply actions  

When you use NE to backup your point, you sort of failed to mention they had a 1st ballot HOF QB in his prime vs Kyle Orton. A new Ferrari vs a reliable Chevy Malibu. Not quite the same. If we could have 29 year old Brady instead of Orton, I’d be apt to agree with you about not needing Marshall.

I think we can only afford to lose Marshall if Eddie Royal becomes a good football player again. The 2008 Eddie Royal is a rock star, but the 2009 Eddie Royal is an NFL nobody. Even Gaffney was a non-factor for the first 14 games of 2009 until he blew up in the last two games. Going into 2010 with Gaffney at #1 and Royal at #2 doesn’t sound like a good idea to this fan. That would give us one of the worst set of starting WRs in the NFL. Then you have Stokely, who seemed like a poor fit in McDaniels O and one big hit away from retirementville. We’re likely without Scheff in 2010 so that is just one more player Orton won’t have. Do you really expect Orton to take the next step in 2010 with 2009 strugglers Royal and Stokely, no Marshall and no Scheff. There is certainly a reason to think this would be a receipt for disaster.

The pool of URA WRs in not deep or heavy with starter quality. Not sure adding in McKinley and a 4th round pick will make up the difference. Even adding in a so-so player like Kevin Walter and I don’t get the math.

San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy

by McGeorge on Feb 22, 2010 1:10 PM MST reply actions  

I'm in agreement

With your assessment more so than TL’s. Losing Marshall is a huge downgrade to the WR position.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Feb 22, 2010 2:04 PM MST up reply actions  

Fair assessment...

we lose BMarsh and pick up a deep threat specialist, I actually see our offensive production increasing slightly. We keep BMarsh AND pick up a deep threat guy, our offensive production will increase a bunch.

Just my opinion though. Everyone loves to hate on Kyle Orton, but I don’t think he is all that bad of a QB.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 2:31 PM MST up reply actions  

And I don’t think a reliable Chevy Malibu is a bad car. You have NEVER heard me say Orton is a bad QB. Quite the opposite, I think he is decent and underrated. I also think he is limited and is at or very near his ceiling as a player. Orton ain’t Tom Brady, not even sort of kind of close. But he is not Cade McNown either.

Marshall made 105 catches and 10 TDs last season. He does that every year. Who picks up that slack? Eddie Royal? Based on 2009? Stokely? Based on 2009? Gaffney? Scheffler? Graham? McKinley? What happens if Eddie Royal gets injured again as he has been injured in both seasons as a Bronco?

Marshall is pretty darn critical to our O. Royal, Gaffney, Stokely, McKinley are not. Those guys are replaceable. Is Marshall – based on 2009, I’d say not so much. Once teams got Orton and McDaniels on film, they were able to take away everything but Marshall (and Gaff in two games). Our opponents were able to decimate Royal and Stokeley. That scares me.

San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy

by McGeorge on Feb 22, 2010 3:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Good points.

It would be interesting to see how a season without BMarsh would play out. He is a Top 10 WR no doubt…but without a deep threat, Orton is forced to go his way more than anyone else’s. BMarsh will make plays.

If we had a deep threat to keep the defense honest, more guys would get open and the ball would be spread around. Drives wouldn’t stall…points would be scored.

That’s my view of things though. I’d rather we keep BMarsh and get us a deep threat….lol

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:40 PM MST up reply actions  

all correct

But you come off so negative all the time, .. I hate what that says about myself. (Who fairly always agrees with you)

by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 22, 2010 8:03 PM MST up reply actions  

No one loves to hate on Orton post the 2009 season. That is a MHR myth. I think a lot of us try to view Orton through objective eyes.

San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy

by McGeorge on Feb 22, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't know...I was almost laughed at when I called him a Top 16 QB...easily.

I had to list 15 other quarterbacks to prove my point. lmao

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:41 PM MST up reply actions  

did he ever drop all the way to 16? I don't think so.

The poster child for just above average. How exciting lol.

by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 22, 2010 8:08 PM MST up reply actions  

is above average intelligence better than average intelligence?

i am proud to be above above average intelligent. uhh…yeah. I am gooder at math too.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 10:20 PM MST up reply actions  

re: late round receiver

I like Kerry Meier, Kansas, as a UDFA.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 1:50 PM MST reply actions  

I like both the Kansas WRs.

San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy

by McGeorge on Feb 22, 2010 3:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Meier is one I saw in action (on TV)

He does things that you rarely see in college WRs. He has a knack for getting open that belies his measured speed. He seems to understand the game at a level that few others do, which comes from his past experience as a QB (which is reminiscent of R. Smith).

It’s hard to justify a pick on players without outstanding measurables, and there are rarer commodities that may need to be addressed before WR, so we can only hope that he falls into UDFA range. I’m not against the idea of drafting him late but we have so few picks compared to last year that it’s harder to justify using even a late one.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 4:38 PM MST up reply actions  

If Marshall stays, the need for another WR is less urgent.

If Marshall goes, there will be draft picks available to address the situation.

"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."

by jayrockstone on Feb 22, 2010 5:01 PM MST up reply actions  

need V. opening (upgrade)

WR is a position that we can always look at for possible additions. That’s partly a result of the enormous depth at the position because of the number of colleges adopting spread offenses.

I’m not comfortable that we’ll stay with six WRs in our offense, and I’m also not convinced that the bubble WRs (Lloyd and McKinley) can rest on their laurels. The value in the later picks/ FAs provides a perfect way of resolving this issue, since we can provide competition & training camp fodder ( I dislike this term but lack a better one) without sacrificing picks. And one of these late picks / FAs has a very real chance of sticking.

However one looks at the roster math at WR, there’s still a justification for looking at more WRs because of what we lack. Our WR corps lacks a deep threat so there’s always an opportunity for any WR who shows himself capable in that area. There’s also an opportunity for any WR who shows himself capable in possession receiving and catching the ball over the middle. IMO, our WR situation is still open because we lack certain attributes, but it also could be argued that age concerns for Stokley and others also makes finding future wideouts more essential.

The main opportunity at WR consists of playmaking, and that covers KR, too. The opportunity is there for a player such as Dez Bryant regardless of what we do about Marshall. The justification for a Bryant pick wouldn’t be need but the ability to improve the team.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 8:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I made this comment earlier today when emailing the editor's group
WR (6th): Like CB this position is decent going into the future, but needs new blood this year. Retaining Marshall would be a huge coup, and would significantly reduce our exposure to risk this year, though how he helps us long term is unsettled business. One possibility I could see is if we tender him at a 1st only, rather than the max tender, and then plan on matching the lesser offer. This strategy could also be pushed to the lowest tender, though the balance between risk/reward gets out of whack down there. However that would still be a possibility. Call it the “garage sale” strategy. Everyone is hoping to get a steal at a garage sale. If the tender is too low, the agent might not let him sign it, but that is a whole nother bag of worms. If Marshall isn’t resigned our regular season roster will be vulnerable, though not terribly. but because there will be so much room in training camp, like at CB, we will have lots of opportunities to address the problem. Again, a top pick is viable here if we find that to be the best opportunity in the draft. Money can also be spent in free agency here, so even though it isn’t a top need, it could see some “big guns” levelled on the problem of addressing it. Since the first round of the draft is the best place to find WR talent, that is where I would expect Denver to look. Their second choice should be the second round. Their third choice should be late round picks, several mid range free agents and CFAs. We need to add at least 4 new WRs to the roster this offseason, so we should see a little of everything. And personally, if we don’t take Dez in the first, I hope we take someone in the second, or else pass on the option until late or after the draft. Back to Marshall for a moment, if we sign him to a tender and end up keeping him on the tender for a year, we still have issues with our future at the position, and will need to be serious about addressing it in 2009. So in order of how much it helps us, we want to A) get Marshall on a long term contract, whether it is with a tempting tender which we can match, or taking the bull by the horns and inking a new contract before March 5th. I lean towards the latter. B)tender him and get the draft pick compensation (maybe it works out, maybe it doesn’t), or C)tender him and end up keeping him on a one year deal. Option A above with a contract is the best option by far.

Where it is relevant to your comment is in looking at just how much room we have to play with when it comes to looking for more WRs. As I noted, we need 4 more just to meet our basic 80 man roster requirements, which is a similar situation to CB, where I have us needing 4 players there as well. Even with a Marshall signing, we will have opportunities to impact our roster positively.

Factor in the possibility that we carry an extra CB or WR over to the 53, and we have even MORE wiggle room. i will say that I think we would carry EITHER an extra CB OR an extra WR, not both. KR/PR could be the deciding factor in that choice….

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 22, 2010 10:13 PM MST up reply actions  

roster math

The distinction between camp fodder and players who have a realistic, albeit slim, chance at making the roster is at the heart of this decision. And most of the potential changes will be through turnover rather than overall numbers, so I’m not suggesting our target number at WR will necessarily change.

I’ve considered the problem and I’m left with the feeling that the number of interesting WRs available might prompt them consider moving Marshall. The reason I come to this conclusion has less to do with his behavioral problems than with his attributes as a player — oddly. Building around him is a lot tougher than taking his value in picks and starting over. Investing heavily in a possession WR doesn’t make sense in the same way as investing a high pick on a Center doesn’t make sense. The salary structure is warped in the process. We’re left with a WR corps that still lacks a true #1 and yet we’ve spent somewhat heavily

It’s possible that we’ll draft Bryant and keep Marshall, which would give us a stellar WR corps and would be a very good outcome given the importance of WR in today’s game. The only reason I lean toward trading Marshall is because he’s the one valuable property that we can trade. The question is whether McX want to continue making some changes in order to produce the type of team they envision. I believe that they do, and I think it’s the correct decision because it takes a two year span and considerable restocking to make the kind of changes they want. We can restock WR easier than almost any other position so it’s the perfect place to ‘lose’ talent and rebuild. On the other hand, it’s hard to rebuild many other areas so it’s wise to use picks if you have them on talent when it’s available. My conclusion is that we’re better off using Marshall’s value on our foundation (DL, OL, etc.) and using the depth at WR in the draft to re-grow in that area.

Re: KR. I’d like to see a CB as the KR, and it’s the easiest way to solve the KR problem, along with finding the future starter at CB in this draft. WR will probably stay at six but CB is going to move to five once we find the right player.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 1:19 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

are you talking about a sign and trade?

if so it makes a lot of sense. My argument for signing Marshall has to do with covering our bases more than “retaining the best player on the team” and I definitely agree that things look just right for a thorough rebuild of our WR roster, if enough ammo is present.

To me, signing him is a chance to take the bull by the horns, with said bull being the offseason roster math, but also the 50/50 depth we look to be heading into 2011 with at this point. And of course, it leaves open the possibility of a trade, with more time to accomplish it.

If what you are talking about is a tender for picks scenario, I don’t think it has a very high chance of working out right…. we would probably end up quadrupling his pay and getting nothing next year….

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 23, 2010 9:28 AM MST up reply actions  

the logic

Re: tender offer. I try to stay clear of making predictions in this area because I’m not confident that I understand the landscape thoroughly. My understanding is that they must (at least) make a tender offer in order to retain his rights as a RFA so that’s requisite unless they’ve worked out a trade. I believe that they have to tender him at level higher than his 4th round status or else risk losing him for that. The crux of the issue is how tendering v. trading impacts their plans for him.

My analysis led me to two conclusions; one, it’s easier rebuild without Marshall, two, McX are active in remaking the team and would continue to be. There’s a lot of things that they can do with this team if they have the ammunition but they’re a little short of ammunition right now. It’s also a nice draft to find personnel in. Moreover, the partial absence of UFAs in an uncapped year makes trades an attractive (and sometimes only) way for teams to reshape their rosters. All of these factors point to wanting to trade him now.

I leave it to others to figure out the technicalities for executing such a trade. I can envision some scenarios but I don’t have much to contribute to this subject.

Pardon me for eliding past some of your points but I don’t find the technical aspects of contract negotiations particularly interesting. My primary interest is with the ‘big picture.’

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

gotcha

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 23, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

what about Freddy Barnes?

I’ve heard him compared to Rod Smith, and he looked amazing in his bowl game.

"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "

Ted Nugent

by Idaho Nate on Feb 22, 2010 1:59 PM MST reply actions  

he's another WR whose stock is on the rise

There’s a lot of talent in the middle and late rounds for a team that does its homework.

Regardless of how one feels about Marshall, what makes the prospect of trading him an attractive idea is the presence of so much talent coming out of college. Colleges are producing WRs at a record pace.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 2:21 PM MST up reply actions  

My Guys.

I’m with you on Denario Alexander, but I’m also high on Riley Cooper and Freddie Barnes… man, these are fun!

MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!

by ejruiz on Feb 22, 2010 2:06 PM MST reply actions  

Yeah, I choose the unenviable task of keeping the post shorter than it should have been.

Lots and lots of guys out there. My narrowing of the field was entirely subjective and based on my opinion.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 2:32 PM MST up reply actions  

you'd still be writing

Just to give you an idea of numbers, look at CBS’s WR listings.

I’ve noticed this trend in college. Being the hundredth and something best WR (coming out of High School) is still a 3-star, which is considered college starter material. No other position has anywhere near this amount of depth.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

I noticed that.

My process of elimination was almost entirely arbitrary at times. :( Alas, I am no NFL Scout. lol

I looked at measurables and hands and route running…but even then, after a while I gave up looking at those WR who are expected to be CFA’s….I am sure there is a potential Rod Smith in there somewhere. ;-)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:43 PM MST up reply actions  

That's exactly why he is not a surefire first rounder....first round talent in the 4th round? you sure?

he has to pass medical exames before the draft you know. :)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Wouldn't be so quick to judge if you watched him every week...

He’s a Beast in his own right.

"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on Feb 23, 2010 7:46 AM MST up reply actions  

I haven't had a chance to look at the WR prospects yet,

but I would take the little guy to return kicks and gettis for sh*ts and grins…

by bfree2bronc on Feb 22, 2010 2:37 PM MST reply actions  

KR/PR at WR? or at RB? DB?

There’s KR/PRs out there, but what I didn’t like was the size of many of them. I’d still much prefer a Cribbs-size player because they can meet the standards for their ‘other’ position, and I don’t see KR as a stand-alone position despite what McDaniels said. They HAVE to serve another function on the team even if it’s a minor function. So the question is where do they fit into the depth chart at other positions.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions  

depends on how much McD values field position.

it would certainly hurt the depth chart of the WR…but perhaps he could be one of those Dave Meggett-types that could be deadly catching the ball in screens…

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:45 PM MST up reply actions  

quick thougtht

I look for KR/PR at more than one position. We need ST contributions from all the later/FA picks. Quality KRs are often good Gunners, and we need depth there to weather the injuries.

My hope is that CB can excel at KR, and there’s some in this crop that fit that role well.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 5:25 PM MST up reply actions  

I wouldn't think McDaniels would hold a roster spot open just for a return guy,

he would have to be a multi-use type player like the rest. McKinley has some bright moment during the year, but he seems a little fragile to be a full time return guy. There seems to be an influx of smaller position players coming to the league lately, how would Holliday work out? In the slot or wide out?

by bfree2bronc on Feb 22, 2010 5:24 PM MST up reply actions  

based solely on metrics

Kelton Tindal, Newberry.

6-3. 195 lbs, 4.25 – 40yd.

Again, I’m looking for UDFAs and not necessarily late picks. I’d prefer seeing our late picks on areas such as the OL. And I’m also looking for UDFAs for the OL, too. I’ve mentioned Joe Hawley(OC), UNLV and Jacob Hickman(OC), Nebraska recently. I’ve also mentioned possible UDFAs such as Deji Karim(RB), Southern Illinois.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 3:03 PM MST reply actions  

He's fast....can he return kicks? :)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 4:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I can find one 82 yd. KR for a TD

He’s about the right size so there’s a chance he’d fit into that role. Your thinking paralleled mine exactly.

He caught a few (17 rec.) balls so he’s a good fit in that way, too. He’s just good enough to fit our needs at speed back but not good enough to be drafted (hopefully). He’s also ‘bigger’ although I don’t put much trust in the athletic dept. measurements. I think he’s closer to 200 lbs. than the listed 205 or 210, but his height is also been fudged, too, so he appears to be solid enough.

We’re not going to draft a speed back so unless Arrington returns or something else unusual happens then the speed back position is a good one to fill with a UDFA.

I like the “pocket Hercules” style of RB for a variety of reasons. I’ll take fast, muscular mighty mites over easy to spot big backs every time. They fit through the cracks as the OL gets bigger. There’s speed in this crop but it rarely comes with size. That may work in college but they wear down at the pro level because of the added speed and size on defense, as well as a longer season.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 5:12 PM MST up reply actions  

oops, thought you asking on Karim

Tindal shows a little but not what you might hope with his measured speed. It makes you wonder why they wouldn’t have tried him there more. He did get some runs though. His value may be more at WR.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 22, 2010 5:19 PM MST up reply actions  

early 3rd=shipley
mid 3rd = des briscoe
4th = danario alexander
early to mid 5th= jacoby ford,
late 5th- eary 6th = freddy barnes

by durst on Feb 22, 2010 3:29 PM MST reply actions  

Marshall??? gone

Lets face it B.M. is gone I think he goes to the SeaHawks..we need to draft a wide out early or when we trade him get a veteran..with that said..get our draft picks on defense and o-line..then another running back..then a 3rd string qb.

by bronco4life on Feb 22, 2010 5:45 PM MST reply actions  

Would also note Eric Decker

Like Sayre, I’d put Decker into the pilefor 4th rd. About same size as Alexander, little faster, but IMO more NFL ready.
Like Gettis and Alexander though.

by ivanthenotsobad on Feb 22, 2010 7:39 PM MST reply actions  

Marshall's status does not require WR panic

Even if Marshall goes, IMO that does not result in WR panic. WR is not a particular weak spot. Decker (see above) is another Walther, cheaper, and probably as NFL ready.
We have other areas of need that take high draft picks to fix (WR does not take a high draft pick to fix). IMO the most difficult positions to fill late in the draft are OL, NT, DT, and CB. That’s where I’d look for early value.

by ivanthenotsobad on Feb 22, 2010 7:46 PM MST reply actions  

That said....

I started to say and forgot to finish that I like your WR evaluations a lot. You have IMO a good sense about what to look for in WRs. Wouldn’t mind any of those you recommend later in the draft – especially Gettis.

by ivanthenotsobad on Feb 22, 2010 7:49 PM MST reply actions  

Good stuff Tim

I’ve liked Trindon Holliday for awhile now. If he drops to UCFA status, he would be a great pickup IMO. He plays with a huge heart and has been fighting the stigma of being too small for the game, but he seems to prove a lot of people wrong. And he can catch the ball, not unlike DHB.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Feb 22, 2010 9:34 PM MST reply actions  

Don't like Alexander

Players with injuries, especially 3 injuries to the knees coming out of college, doesn’t bode well, evenn in the later rounds, does Willie Middlebrooks (I know he wasn’t late round but still injured) and Toviasi (Marshall) ring a bell. Shanny had a propensity for taking chances on players with injuries, whether draft or free agency (Robertson), with very little sucess.

It’s hard enough to scout and draft talent without being concerned with injuries.

by broncos314 on Feb 22, 2010 9:43 PM MST reply actions  

taking chances with high draft picks....

how many 5th to 7th round picks make the team after two years? hell after just one year?

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 22, 2010 10:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I've been talking up Alexander for weeks now...

His minor injury that will keep him from the combine has bummed me out. However, that may allow him to fall to the position you predict and we would be getting a GREAT receiver. He has Marshall like size and toughness, but he also has one thing Brandon doesn’t. He can run away from defenders after the catch….watched him every week of his career. People tend to forget he was the leading receiver in the NCAA last year…..

The kid is tough! He kinda got screwed early on at Mizzou after his injury. He was all set to be our star WR, but then Maclin had to come in….the rest is history LOL. He could have quit, but he bided his time and stepped up in a BIG way after Maclin left. He had a young but very talented QB (Gabbert) tossing him the ball so he can definitely make the catches that aren’t quite on target. (For that matter…keep your eyes on Blaine Gabbert in the future…he could be a QB prospect for us in a year or 2)

Now granted, I’m biased as a Mizzou Alum, but he will be a factor in the NFL. I would especially like it if he were in Orange and Blue!

I was really hoping he would be on your list when yo mentioned WR’s were next up. :)

Thanks!

"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on Feb 23, 2010 7:57 AM MST reply actions  

Great analysis guys.

Of course, you do realize that a post with this much logic means Dez Bryant somehow ends up a Bronco? So far, predicting this team’s moves has been very tough.

by idahobronc on Feb 23, 2010 10:04 AM MST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

MileHighReport(MHR) is the ultimate independent resource for the Denver Broncos on the web. Along with MHR Radio, the official podcast of MHR, we look to provide hardcore Denver Broncos fans positive, independent insight about the Broncos, 24/7/365!
Start posting about the Broncos »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Plato_bust_small
Tales from the SunnySide: Jammie Kirlew
Small
An Underrated Character Trait
Plato_bust_small
2010 Training Camp Battles
Legend_of_the_seeker_small
I'm confused... no, wait, maybe I'm not!
Plato_bust_small
Elvis Dumervil and the Ways of Leverage

Recent FanPosts

Small
In A Dilema Part 2
Jay-cutler-elvis-dumervil-2009-8-30-21-10-40_small
Rookie Training Camp Thread Day 2
Picture_276_small
What happened to DenverBroncosProShop.com? And my gift certificate!
Jay-cutler-elvis-dumervil-2009-8-30-21-10-40_small
Training Camp Thread Rookie day 1
Logo2_small
Jaguars' David Garrard Better Watch Out For Denver Broncos' Tim Tebow
Rod_small
Getting Primed for Floyd's HoF Induction
Mhr_shirt_small
Know Your Enemies
Nfl_u_tebow_576_small
Madden NFL 11 Demo - Initial Thoughts

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Getting Social With MHR

Facebook_badge_medium_medium
Black_generated_button

Milehighreport_email_medium

SPONSORS

Web Stuff

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Washington Redskins defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth signs autographs during the NFL football team's training camp and fan appreciation day, Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009, at Redskins Park in Ashburn, Va. (AP Photo/Nick Wass) +3 updates

NFL Training Camps News: Albert Haynesworth Fails Conditioning Test

FILE -- This is a Feb. 3, 2008, file photo showing New York Giants receiver David Tyree (85) catching a 32-yard pass in the clutches of New England Patriots safety Rodney Harrison (37) during the fourth quarter of Super Bowl XLII in Glendale, Ariz. Tyree is back in the NFL, hopeful his health won't be an issue in his quest to earn another Super Bowl ring, this time with the Baltimore Ravens. (AP Photo/Gene Puskar, File)

David Tyree To Re-Sign With, Retire As A Giant

Photo +8 updates

Free Agent OT Flozell Adams Has Four Standing Offers, Seeking $4 Million

More from SBNation.com >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation


General Manager/Head Coach

Milehighreport_small John Bena

Superstock_253-215_small Jeremy Bolander

Asst. Head Coach

Coach_pic_small Steve Nichols

Tahoetim_small Tim Lynch

Tjpic1_small TJ Johnson

Broncos_camp_2_054_small Sayre Bedinger

Position Coach

Bronco-pride_small BShrout

Me_as_a_simpson_small ejruiz

Mmgg_004_small KaptainKirk

Broncohoodie_in_africa_small kentuckybronco

Quality Control

800px-john_brown_painting_small mdierk