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Draftivus: Who Should be Center?

Center is one of those positions that I believe can be filled in later rounds. Unless Maurkice Pouncey falls to the Broncos in the second round, I just don't see a need to expend a draft pick until late in the draft.

With so many other holes to fill at key positions; like linebacker, defensive end, cornerback, guard, wide receiver, nose tackle... I mean come on. Tom Nalen was a 7th rounder. Why waste a pick on a center when you can find one later? The drop-off in talent is much more significant at the other key positions the Broncos need to fill. Use the early picks on those, fill this need later.

I know many disagree and center was ranked second in the recent poll I ran asking which position was our biggest need. Need shouldn't always correlate to draft position.

Under the Broncos new offensive scheme, the offensive line must be bigger. Gone are the days of the zone blocking scheme that relied on lighter, more athletic lineman. Josh McDaniel's has brought his own master-mind and needs the correct personnel to carry it out.

In my mind, there may be only a handful of centers to choose from in this draft that will fit this mold.

Matt Tennant, C, Boston College

6'5", 290lbs.

Tennant has the skills to be a starter in the NFL, but I have him ranked lowest here because the Broncos would likely need to spend a second round pick in order to pick him up. He will likely be gone by the time the Broncos are on the clock in the third round.

I am not really a fan of taking a center that high in the draft. Third round maybe, but with so many other holes at priority positions it would behoove me to be okay with the Broncos taking a center in the first or second rounds.

Star-divide

As always, I enjoy CBS Sports' analysis because of its knack for being concise and to the point.

Pass blocking: Good hand punch to get the defender off-balance and shows some nastiness in attempting to de-cleat the defender when the opportunity arises. Good lateral agility to mirror the defender. Keeps his shoulders square and plays with leverage and balance due to proper knee bend. Plays high and can get in trouble anchoring against shorter, powerful defensive tackles.

This kid is a bit undersized, but carries with him a nasty attitude. What a steal he could be in the third round.  I just don't think he will last that long, being rated the second best center in the draft.  A strong showing at the combine might even put him on even keel with Maurkice Pouncey.

Run blocking: Moderate and improving strength to wall-off and sustain. Can turn and control his assignment to keep him from making the play. Flashes some explosiveness in his initial pop, but needs to add more strength in his upper body to sustain blocks longer.

This was my main point of contention with Tennant. The whole point of drafting a center is to continue the shift to a power run game. His size limits his ability to be consistent in the run game McDaniels will employ.

Pulling/trapping: Efficient combo blocker. Provides a pop at the first level, but is agile enough to get to the second level and deliver an effective block there as well. Good lateral agility and initial quickness to pull. Athletic enough in this area to consider moving to guard at the next level.

He sounds like a perfect center for a zone blocking scheme. I'm not sure I like that the Broncos are moving away from their longheld staple of a run game, but times have changed.

Initial Quickness: Good initial quickness to gain an advantage on the defender. Good burst off the snap for the cut-block on quick throws.

Hmm, perhaps Tennant will be available early in the third round when Washington picks. Shanny could get himself an excellent zone blocking center.  If he added weight, the Broncos and McDaniels could potentially have an excellent candidate to take over at center in Tennant.

Downfield: High-effort player who looks to block downfield and isn't afraid to block to or through the whistle. Very good foot quickness and balance to get to the second level and adjust to the moving target.

I like nastiness in linemen. It shows they enjoy putting the hurt on other people, which means they don't enjoy the hurt being put on their quarterbacks.

Intangibles: Tall, almost lanky athlete for the center position. Room for additional muscle mass. Legitimate NFL athleticism. Reliable shotgun and traditional snapper. Durable player entering his senior campaign with 41 consecutive starts. Has the athleticism and body style to consider moving to guard. A bit too lanky for some teams at center.

I know I sounded like I never wanted Tennant fromt he get go, but this last statement is one of the main reasons he made the list. If he can add another 10-15 pounds of muscle, he would become the bulkier center the Broncos are looking for. It would give him the edge he needs to become a better power run blocker.

Erik Cook, C, New Mexico

6'6", 320 lbs.

Well, I wanted a big man and so here he is. He is graded out as a late 7th rounder or CFA, either way, he would be a fine addition to the practice squad. The problem is, the Broncos may need someone who is able start much sooner.

Erik Cook will need to work on his footwork and quickness, but by all accounts he should at least be able to contribute on the depth chart. If not as a center, certainly a guard.

Pass blocking: Athletic and flexible for his size. Able to move his feet inside against quick tackles, and also to roll out with quarterback in moving pocket. Shows some nastiness and plays through the whistle when mauling inside. Good pop when trying to push his defender away from quick screen. Accurate shotgun snap, getting his head up to see and hit his man. When doubling a tackle, keeps head on a swivel to stay aware of twists and late blitzers. Gives good effort to chase down defenders making tracks toward his quarterback scrambling out of the pocket. Height can be a detriment inside, but his anchor is usually strong. Must get a bit higher on his man's leg to ensure his cut block is effective.

Perhaps he can fill in the guard position opposite of the side the plays are designed to throw too. I wonder how long opposing defenses would catch on to that. ha! Really, 6'6" is tall, but we are only talking about two or three inches here. It wouldn't take a guy like Orton long to figure out how to bypass the guys large body when throwing the ball. Sounds like a solid pass blocker though, something the interior of our line lacked this past season.

Run blocking: Quick enough to snap and get his hands on his man's jersey to turn him, take him down the line or just wall him off. Knows the angle he needs to take on the MIKE to keep him from the play. Will lunge when playing too tall out of his stance, allowing a nose-up defender to swim past him. Also gets his pads too high as a drive blocker, though he keeps his legs moving to push the pile.

Needs some work in this area, but a year on the practice squad would really help him develop into a better run blocker.

Pulling/trapping: Doesn't have the foot speed to pull consistently. Gets a hand on players coming from inside, but doesn't move quickly enough to square up against them. Gets tripped up in trash so trapping may prove difficult.

This appears to be his achilles heel. Both centers and guards do this regularly, so I am not sure how he will overcome this deficiency.

Initial Quickness: Generally gets off the snap well whether quarterback is under center or in shotgun formation. Most starting NFL tackles, however, will out-quick him initially whether lined up at the zero or one techniques. Would be better off playing guard or tackle, where he's not worried about the snap.

This says it all, but hard work and practice could help him become a better center at the pro level. All indications point towards a move to OG or OT in the NFL. Still, the experience at center will be quite valuable to a team like the Broncos from a depth standpoint.

Downfield: A bit slow to get his weight moving forward, but does manage to reach and negate linebackers, even after blocking down. Sustains by latching on and keeping his feet active, but may have trouble adjusting to quicker NFL defenders. Hustles to get 20-25 yards downfield on screen passes or reverses. Linebackers can disengage with a strong punch to the chest, as Cook takes time to get his hands up when on the move.

Cook will have to work hard to earn a job in the NFL, but I think he has what it takes to become a serviceable lineman. Take Mike Iupati in the first, turn Cook into a OG and draft the last center on this list and bingo! We got ourselves a quality offensive line for the next decade! Or so I can dream.

Intangibles: Intelligent player who makes line calls. Coaches and teammates call him a leader by words and example on the field, in the weight room and in the locker room.

His work ethic will be why he makes it in the NFL. Whether it is as a starter or a solid backup in the rotation, he will find his niche in the league. Hopefully, the Broncos can benefit from that.

Eric Olsen, C, Notre Dame

6'4", 310 lbs.

Olsen is my favorite center prospect, after Pouncey, in this draft. The son of a firefighter, who had the unfortunate call to duty in the aftermath of 9/11, had learned early on the value of hardwork and dedication.

There is much to like about this kid and though he is currently graded out in the 6th round, I expect his stock to rise before the draft. Hopefully, the Broncos can snatch him up in the fifth round.

Pass blocking: Strong anchor and good knee bend. Can mirror after initial contact against tackles. Likes to punch defenders when helping guards, knocking them to the ground at times. Keeps his man on the ground once he falls. Struggles with quickness and recovery, reaching and bending at the waist to pick up late blitzers and twists. Accurate shotgun snap with his head up facing the line. Sells run block fake on bootlegs.

Olsen is an intelligent player who will command the line early on. He obviously excels at pass blocking and shows his nasty side early and often.

Run blocking: Good drive blocker who pushes his man downfield. Keeps feet moving after first contact but will overextend and lacks flexibility to sustain against slippery quicker defenders. Also strong enough to turn his man out of the hole. Stays on first block too long at times, allowing linebackers to penetrate before he can get to them.

Needs to work on his technique in the run game, but has the smarts to adjust quickly. The more I learn about this kid the more I hope to see him don an orange and blue uniform.

Pulling/trapping: Foot speed and change of direction abilities are not elite and has a bit of extra weight in the middle, but gives good effort to get around the line when pulling or trapping in front of run plays. Best when hitting stationery targets; will miss adjusting to oncoming defenders.

I will predict he will lose some of that "baby fat" after his first training camp. Being a center will mask his lack of agility to change directions, but he will need to improve to become a great center.

Initial Quickness: Gets hands up quickly into his man's jersey after the snap, even when man-up against nose tackles. Good initial punch, but it's not enough to knock his man back.

With more teams moving to a 30 front, centers that can tie up the big man in the middle will be at a premium in the NFL. Eric Olsen fits the bill here as well.

Downfield: A bit heavy-footed moving to the linebackers, but almost always finds a target to hit. Will go after two, three or four players downfield, playing through the whistle. Effective cut blocker downfield.

The nastiness will earn him the respect of his teammates and that of his opponents. You got to love this guys stamina to go at it like he has every single play.

Intangibles: Charlie Weis called Olsen the line's "heart and soul." Durable lineman who fights through pain. Smart enough to make line calls. Plays with a nasty streak - knows his toughest opponent and goes after him all game long.

This final quote is refreshing. That about sums up everything I want in a guy playing center. We all miss Tom Nalen, perhaps its time to bring in a worthy replacement. By worthy I mean, a drafted to become the anchor of the Broncos offensive line for the next decade or longer.

Eric Olsen is that guy.

Poll
Which Center is the best value in this draft?
Matt Tennant
32 votes
Erik Cook
41 votes
Eric Olsen
130 votes
Other...name in comments
47 votes

250 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 67 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I understand the hesitancy regarding Pouncey

But I’d like to see us trade back with a team interested in Dan Williams or Dez Bryant, pick up a mid-round pick or two, and take Pouncey in the 20’s. I’m not as high on Pouncey as others are, but I think he’s a pretty sure thing in terms of finding a top-level center – and in a deep, but not very top heavy draft like this one, I think there’s value in that move.

If we’re talking mid-round talent at the postion, my preference is toward J.D. Walton out of Baylor in the 3rd or Ted Larsen out of NC Statein the 4th/5th.

by Vortex7 on Feb 23, 2010 12:02 PM MST reply actions  

Possible, but what about Mike Iupati?

If we can only get one, which is going to be better? Pouncey or Iupati?

I guess I just like the idea of Clady and Iupati pulling outside to clear massive lanes for Moreno to streak through. :)

My biggest wet dream would be landing Pouncey and Iupati….ohhhh mama! It’ll never happen though, which is why I avoided even putting Pouncey in the discussion here. ;-)

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

what if we could get Berry?

I’d love to pick Lupati with that #14…. nevermind. Center will have to wait unless Pouncey drops in the second.

by Whidbey Bronco on Feb 23, 2010 1:24 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

On Iupati...

I’ve heard he doesn’t want to be a Guard in the NFL because he want’s Tackle money. If Pouncey really is the surest thing at center in this draft, I’d like him, but only as a late first or (preferably) in the second.

by SoCalBroncsFan on Feb 23, 2010 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Iupati was asked on if he would want to play tackle in the nfl

and he said something like I guess they make more money…
shy-ly

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by RiG on Feb 23, 2010 9:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Since I wanted Iupati at #10-11,

I figures Eric Olsen would be a fine center who would be surrounded by Iupati, Clady, Harris, and whoever wins the job at the G position. That’s a pretty dominating oline!

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 12:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Vortex I'd have to agree with you on Walton,

I think he can make impact right from the start. Haven’t done much research on Larsen, I’ll have to check him out. I’m not sold entirely on Maurkice Pouncey and there are some draftnics who have him going to Indy at 31 to play guard not center.

"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."

by bchiper on Feb 23, 2010 12:22 PM MST up reply actions  

One problem

with your theory of getting Olsen in the 5th. We don’t have a 5th( I wish I did HaHa). He sounds great. Nice article. What do you think about Kevin Matthews?

"Just trying to win a MF game."

by Digger24 on Feb 23, 2010 1:18 PM MST reply actions  

Sorry, I keep assuming we deal Hillis for a 5th to Washington. lmao

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Olsen would probably be a good pick.

I like Iupati too…Can I have my cake and eat it too?

by bfree2bronc on Feb 23, 2010 1:33 PM MST reply actions  

Olsen

I would love Olsen, he is the kind of kid I can get behind, he is a big man, he is a hard worker and a leader and he is not a gator.

The only downside to drafting Olsen is that we could end up having the Olsen twins blocking on the inside and no doubt in Denmark they would rename our line the Olsen gang or if they suck the Olsen brothers, if you have been there you will know why.

by gyldenlove on Feb 23, 2010 1:41 PM MST reply actions  

comment

I’ve written a lot about this lately.

Two Centers we’ve missed in our analysis are: Joe Hawley and Jacob Hickman.

Draft Scout Snapshot: DS Rating on 2/4/10: #5 C, #167/750 Overall, Projected Rd: 5, DS Rating on 9/1/09: #11 C, #264/750 Overall, Projected Rd: 7-FA

Scott Wright has Hawley in the #6 slot at Center while placing Cook at #10. CBS has Hawley at the #20 OG and #376 overall.

What I’m saying here is that it’s worth noticing when a credible source deems a prospect draftworthy. Both these prospects fit into the ‘later’ round scenario, which I strongly agree with. And it’s not that I have a problem with taking a prospect such as Pouncey but there’s reason to believe it’s an unlikely event. And the same is possibly true for Tennant and Walton. The most likely scenario may be one in which we take a Center prospect later in the draft and attempt to fix our immediate problems by other means, such as Dustin Fry.

My emphasis is on finding the right Center, which — oddly — doesn’t necessarily equate to the highest rated prospect. An added theme that I’ve hit on lately is changing the somatotype that we use for the position. Most people have picked up on the fact that we’re looking for a more ‘power type’ of OL, but it’s difficult to effectively communicate what that is. A typical error — IMO — is to flip the somatotype and suggest that we draft players who look like Herman Johnson or Brandon Carter. Big isn’t necessarily bad for an OL but it seems quite clear that size alone is the reason for these picks.

Some of the traits we looked for in the past are still useful even though the range has been shifted over and changed subtly. I won’t attempt to describe the new somatotype at this point but I’ll illustrate it and hope that people get the idea. Both Hawley and Hickman probably fit this type. It also should be noted that Hickman’s size is not necessarily an issue given his style of play (from what I’ve heard).

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 2:06 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

I agree that the best option at center is most certainly NOT the highest rated on the draft boards.

Olsen is graded as a low round….I felt he fit the McD mold for bigger, more physical offensive linemen.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 4:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Nice work Tim

Some thoughts:

The drop-off in talent is much more significant at the other key positions the Broncos need to fill. Use the early picks on those, fill this need later.

Your favorite is Pouncey; if I’m understanding correctly, your second favorite is a fifth- or sixth-rounder. It’s hard to find a bigger drop off than that.

I am not really a fan of taking a center that high in the draft. Third round maybe, but with so many other holes at priority positions it would behoove me to be okay with the Broncos taking a center in the first or second rounds.

Maybe you’ve got a point that some great centers have been taken late in the draft. However, I’m also guessing that the percentage of centers that turn out to be good NFL players gets worse the later you pick them, not dissimilar to other positions.

It’s always best to draft a guy without the need to throw him to the wolves right away. If we drafted Pouncey, he could learn behind Weigmann for a pre-season/partial season/full season, then we’d have a more seasoned, secure option moving forward. If we wait until the 5th round to draft our (hopefully) future center, that chance diminishes greatly. And if it doesn’t work out, then we will immediately go from needing a future center, to having a crisis at center.

Center is the priority because we have a chance to do it the right way, but that window closes this year. Mawae is 39 and options at OC elsewhere are pretty thin.

I’m a big McClain fan, but I’d rather be in position to get say Pouncey and Spikes, than McClain and a late round center. Continuity on the offensive line is very important. I think we need to address the future at center before it becomes a crisis or a revolving door.

Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!

by Alex on Feb 23, 2010 2:13 PM MST reply actions  

late picks
Maybe you’ve got a point that some great centers have been taken late in the draft. However, I’m also guessing that the percentage of centers that turn out to be good NFL players gets worse the later you pick them, not dissimilar to other positions.

Quite true, but the Center position is still a lower priority on teams’ BBs so there must be some way to reconcile these ideas. Centers and Guards are rare in the first two rounds so a substantial percentage of NFL C/Gs are coming through the lower round/UDFA route.

My understanding is that OLs are often hard to project, with OTs being somewhat of an exception at the top. Their ability isn’t apparent or measurable in the same way as other positions, and many teams go the route of drafting them and grooming them since it’s a trained skill more than an innate talent. Some wash out but teams continually re-supply the position and let the numbers sort them out. A quick survey around the league reveals that many starting OCs are from the later rounds.

My guess at reconciling the apparent late round paradox (see above) is that not many Centers are picked early so the rate of success doesn’t matter. Higher picks can still succeed at a higher rate but few teams deem the investment worth it. Most team go the late round route and eventually find their Center that way. And, of course, some may not make it. The ‘culling rate’ may be higher for the Center position but it could be the “cost of doing business” for a position that (in general) doesn’t warrant the investment of a high pick.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 3:43 PM MST up reply actions  

I guess my opinion was

that we don’t have time to fire and miss on OC. But with Cassey’s dismissal today, I certainly wouldn’t think McDaniels is targeting a rookie to start this year. Meaning, he’s got his eye on a starter already. Also meanin, that Casey’s one year window no longer applies, so we can draft a less sure thing and probably have time to re-fire next year if needed.

I still don’t like the idea of a revolving door in the middle of the offensive line, but it’s probably too early to guess who he’s got in mind or how long he’ll be able to stay.

Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!

by Alex on Feb 23, 2010 6:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Getting Pouncey in the first is not worth it when you consider the other needs on this team...

Dropping back into later rounds for a Center is likely a better proposition. Provided he isn’t a dud. It’s a risk, but taking a C in the first round is a bigger risk imo.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 4:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I understand your point about value, or maybe even cost basically

We’re certainly not “targeting” Pouncey now, at least not in my mind. So long as McDaniels already has his eye on a starter, I’ll be happy. Again though, I’ll be even happier when I see a plan for the future. I think most of us understand that OL and DL are completely different. Substitutions and personnel changes should be avoided when possible. I’m anxious to see some long-term continuity.

Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!

by Alex on Feb 23, 2010 7:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Pouncey - Totally Overrated

Why is everyone here infatuated with Pouncey?

Totally overrated prospect IMO – Poor stance – left leg is ahead of right leg which causes him to be off-balance, lacks lateral agility, can’t change direction unless holding onto an opponent. He leans back in his stance on passing plays and forward on running plays effectively giving the plays away. Does not change protections, ever!

Let somebody else get suckered into this guy, who will probably end up as a serviceable RG.

Dan Williams in the first please! :)

- JW

by JDub15 on Feb 23, 2010 2:47 PM MST reply actions  

1st post?

Are you a troll?

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions  

1st post? I’ve most here many times…. I also wrote a Fanpost, not sure why it says that.

by JDub15 on Feb 23, 2010 3:46 PM MST up reply actions  

that's not what it says

That was your first post.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 3:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Comments don't show up on recent activity if the comment wasn't very recent.

He could have had comments a long time ago that wouldn’t show up under recent activity.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6

by Troy Hufford on Feb 23, 2010 4:30 PM MST up reply actions  

My guess

is, his next one won’t be for a long time either.

"Just trying to win a MF game."

by Digger24 on Feb 24, 2010 5:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Again, I don't want to be a Pouncey homer

I actually hated him as a Gator. You have every right to think he’s overrated, though I haven’t seen or read anything indicating too many negatives on his potential as a NFL player. Where you lose me, is by saying Pouncey is overrated in the last third of the 1st/early second and then you advocate Dan Williams – a guy with giant motivational issues and who was handled one-on-one routinely at the Senior Bowl – as somebody deserving as a 10/11 pick. My point is, I really don’t think there’s great value in the first round of this draft at all – but there’s great value in rounds 2-4.

by Vortex7 on Feb 23, 2010 3:48 PM MST up reply actions  

If there is better value in 2-4

would you suggest that we try our best to trade down and pick up as many picks in these rounds as possible?

by SteveUK on Feb 24, 2010 3:00 AM MST up reply actions  

I am not high on Pouncey....I am high on Iupati. High enough to take him at #10. :)

People should look at reality rather than “draft ranking”. Ryan Leaf was ranked #1 in the draft way back when…

Iupati will be a pro bowler and an anchor to our offensive line. To me, it doesn’t matter where he is taken – the value is he will succeed. :)

So why do people hesitate to take him at #10? As if his value isn’t worth a #10? How valuable is an 10-15 year all pro guard?

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 4:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Looks like this position just got a but more important for us..

Apparently Casey Wiegmann has been released

Scout.com’s Adam Caplan reports the Broncos have released C Casey Wiegmann.
Wiegmann put together a surprising Pro Bowl season under Mike Shanahan in 2008, but the smallish center was a poor fit for Josh McDaniels’ power-blocking scheme. The Broncos will have to find a replacement to help shore up their well-document short-yardage issues. Wiegmann, turning 37 in July, could opt for retirement.

by HorseStance on Feb 23, 2010 3:28 PM MST reply actions  

Watch for Seth McKinney

G/C from Buffalo. Worked with Studesville last year in Buffalo. He has major injury concerns, but he’d come cheap as as stop gap between now and Pouncey/Tennant/Walton/Cook/whoever. He has good size and is very technically sound. Plays with a bit of a streak.

by Vortex7 on Feb 23, 2010 3:56 PM MST reply actions  

yes, maybe

I’m not sure who but they didn’t release Wiegmann without a plan for how they wanted to proceed.

I’ve recently made the argument that Wiegmann might stay around for a while but the gist of the point was that having veteran was important for that position and our situation. Does this mean they have another Center ready to sign? My guess is that they do.

I’d wager that we’ll see a FA signing. Perhaps soon, but probably before the draft.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 4:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Is there a guy from Canada that I'm missing?

Seems like the only center on our roster is Dustin Fry, who has never played a meaningful down in this league. Maybe our co-offensive line coach from Canada (correct?) has a guy in mind, or maybe there is a FA out there that we like. Maybe Seth Olsen is our C of the future.

What about two Olsen’s alongside each other on the line? How’s about that?

by Sayre Bedinger on Feb 23, 2010 4:20 PM MST reply actions  

Hamilton

I say move Ben over. He was being groomed that way for years and think he still has enough in the tank to play Center for a few years.

by kimbertr on Feb 23, 2010 4:49 PM MST reply actions  

I don't think Ben has anything left in the tank...

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 5:18 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Another possibility

I just can’t see McD letting Weigmann go, unless he has the position covered. Could it be that we already have our new Center ?? Named Seth Olsen ?
 Just reading between the lines, this makes a lot of sense. What do you think ???

by rg2247 on Feb 23, 2010 5:01 PM MST reply actions  

rg - I said the same an hour ago or so

And I don’t think that we’re the only two who noticed ;-) Olsen or another, they feel like it’s covered. Who took the snaps for the scout team in 2009?

Don't say rebuild - say reload...

by Doc Bear on Feb 23, 2010 5:26 PM MST up reply actions  

I don’t know who did the scout team work last season, but I sure would like to know.

by rg2247 on Feb 23, 2010 6:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Excellent post, Tim. Rec'd.

I saw also a few minutes ago that Weigmann had been released. Class act – that guy. Sad to see him go this way but it does clear up any speculation as to whether he is in the plans for 2010.

My guess is that Hamilton will move over, as kimbertr suggested. Whether or not we draft an OC, my sense is that at this time, he is the best bet there and could be in a rotation with the other/new player whoever that is. I know nothing about Dustin Fry except he weighs about 326 lbs and can play center which is an advantage over anyone who hasn’t. Vortex7 talked about Seth McKinney. I heard his name before. He might be able to play and work with this offense – especially if he has worked with the new RB coach.

I would be leery of putting the center chores in the hands of someone new at the position. The shotgun snap – especially if there is a NT ready to take your head off inches away – is not that easy. Your awareness shifts from your body and your center of gravity to the QB while the ball is in flight. Then you have to recover and drive block. All of this takes time to master. Sorry – I know a number of people are supporters of Seth Olsen to become center – and I would like that – I am concerned that this is much more than one training camp away from fulfillment.

I am a supporter of trading down to try to snare Pouncey at about 25 (Jets) or 27 (AZ) in the first round. With he and Hamilton rotating for awhile until he can handle it himself mid-season, we might have a big part of our running game back.

Thanks, Tim, for your very good post – and your time and energy.

This is off the subject…but I am not sad to see Jordan go. Iwish him well. I am betting that we draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th round as well as try to pick up someone not named Tomlinson.

by Blackknigh on Feb 23, 2010 5:13 PM MST reply actions  

I think it is obvious that McD has his center.

I doubt its Hamilton…he just seems one step from retirement himself. I still think McD drafts a center late in the draft somewhere. Olsen, the Eric I hope. ;)

Jordon was like an assistant coach last year…I am neutral in his departure. I felt he served us well in 2009, but it always time to think ahead…roster spots are valuable commodities.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 5:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks, Tim.

I think I overstated Hamilton’s possible contribution. I see him mostly as someone who will help develop the new/other center possibly in a rotation or some other way. I think you’re right – he appears destined for retirement soon. It will be interesting to see who McD has in his mind – he leaves little to chance.

by Blackknigh on Feb 23, 2010 5:32 PM MST reply actions  

That would be awesome.

For reasons beyond my understanding, offensive linemen(the long term ones) are near and dear to my heart. I am sad whenever one of them goes. Nalen, Lepsis, now Hamilton…

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 7:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Hamilton

I remember a stats post and Hamilton’s numbers were not as bad as I expected. When he came back in at season’s end he seemed to play with a new passion. I think he would make a good center based on his experience. Especially if he has good guard strength next to him. Just saying I would not be surprised by it or by a free agent and a draft pick.

by pastordan on Feb 23, 2010 6:03 PM MST reply actions  

Another player that intrigues me

is Thomas Austin from Clemson. He has good size ( 6’3-315), has started at both OG & OC. I read that prior to this college season, Mel Kiper had him tabbed as the top Senior OC in the country. So what happened ?? Did he loose line mates & have to play with underclassmen ? CJ Spiller still had a great year.
 As he is rated right now, We could possibly sign him as an undrafted FA. I think he would be well worth a look.

by rg2247 on Feb 23, 2010 6:33 PM MST reply actions  

heck yeah. i wonder why he dropped so fast...

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Feb 23, 2010 7:28 PM MST up reply actions  

the curse of Kiper

My guess is that he gained too much attention though Kiper’s promotion and scouting showed differently. It’s a classic boom-bust. He was also hurt by moving back to OG this year, which isn’t a good way of boosting one’s stock as a OC.

If some of his downgrading is from overcompensating (a sort of reverse boom) then he could be a good value. I’ve listed him previously as another of the OCs that we’ve missed in our analysis. His lack of position hurts his positional ranking but not his overall talent. This is the categorical effect I’ve talked about when discussing hybrids before last season. Lacking a position can be bad, but it also can be good — as in versatility.

Thomas Austin, OG, 6-3, 315 lbs

I think we should consider him as one more decent OC prospect who will go late. Also, Hickman has the same problem of having switched positions, besides only being a junior. Hawley has also played both OC and OG so he might have some of the categorization problems, too.

BTW — it just dawned on me that the nifty run blocking OGs are the somatotype I’m looking for at OC.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 23, 2010 11:18 PM MST up reply actions  

reverse boom...speculative cycle

this is completely offtopic, but have you ever heard of Ralph Nelson Elliot? I think of his work whenever we get to the beginning of April and we start getting into third and fourth “waves” of prospect speculation….

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 24, 2010 1:40 PM MST up reply actions  

I remember reading about the Elliot wave years ago...I think in the 80's.

I read a little in reference to commodities and stocks but never really understood what his reference points were. Interesting stuff nonetheless.

by Blackknigh on Feb 24, 2010 3:19 PM MST up reply actions  

same idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_wave_theory

And I love that Fibonacci numbers and fractal geometry make their way into it.

There’s certainly elements of truth to EWT. I wonder about the signal to noise in messy situations but there are predictable aspects to crowd psychology. I’ve referred to it as the mathematics of stampedes.

Speaking as a layperson, I wonder if the system “forgets,” which is what the Lyapunov Exponent refers to. Too many speculative waves crashing against each other could produce an intractable mess.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 24, 2010 4:28 PM MST up reply actions  

further comment

I felt bad about giving Eliot more than his due. Even though I believe that herd mentality can drive stock prices and these trends can be easy to spot, I have serious reservations about a general theory such as Elliot’s.

This gives me a chance to plug one of my favorite books, If You’re So Smart; the narrative of economic expertise.

LINK

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Feb 24, 2010 5:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks, Colinski

Amazon.com thanks you too – they have most of my disposable income anyway ;-)

Don't say rebuild - say reload...

by Doc Bear on Feb 24, 2010 5:32 PM MST up reply actions  

So Tim, you want a 6th rounder to groom as..

the next Bronco center, right?
You did not give alot of options for the position until then, right? That leaves Dustin Fry as the ONLY center on the team. Hum your center is not to good.
Here is my option. If Maurkice Pouncey is rated as the 35th best player and he would fill the biggest hole in our offense and Dustin Fry could not start, then why would you not take him at #10/11?
OH YEA, you are going to say, you do not take a guard that high. I say why not? If he is a franchise player, then take him.

by DLMyers on Feb 23, 2010 7:38 PM MST reply actions  

Guards and Centers have become more valuable

I’m old enough to remember when no one drafted either OL or Dl in the first three rds.
It was because they were not regarded as “skill” positions and could be filled in later.
However, things changed.
First DE’s became pass rushing specialists.
Then LTs became QB saviors
Then DTs became run stuffing specialists
Then NTs became two gap monsters.
All rose into the early rounds.
Because of it OCs and OGs are also becoming extremely valuable. We’ve learned that the hard way.
IMO the best picks in the early rds to insure long successful playoff runs is to concentrate on DL, especially NTs and DTs, and OL including OGs and OCs.
Arguing that drafting a center early is wasteful IMO does not recognize the realities of the modern NFL. With the move to the 3-4 and huge interior NTs and DTs the OC and OGs have become almost as important as the LT. One ignores this at great risk.
I’d consider drafting two OTs early – i.e. Bulaga and Veldheer – and then see who of the big bodies rises to the top and where – i.e. Clady, Harris, Bulaga, or Veldheer at OT,;Fry, Olsen, McChesney or Bulaga at OC; Kuper, Polumbus, McChesney, Bulaga, Veldheer, Hochstein or Fry at OG. I suspect there’s a pretty decent OL somewhere in that mix with some relatively comfortable depth.

by ivanthenotsobad on Feb 23, 2010 10:13 PM MST reply actions  

According to Bill Walsh

You can blame much of this on Lawrence Taylor. He helped to make the OT into a high=money requirement in pro ball.

Don't say rebuild - say reload...

by Doc Bear on Feb 23, 2010 11:34 PM MST up reply actions  

+1

It is always good to remember where these assessments of positional and round value come from… those palyers who might crop up at any time that force us to rethink our paradigms…

In a way that is what I love about the draft: every new prospect challenges our ability to integrate knowledge of ALL players.

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 24, 2010 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Love that point, styg
It is always good to remember where these assessments of positional and round value come from… those palyers who might crop up at any time that force us to rethink our paradigms…

That is, without question, my favorite aspect of the draft and of the grabbing of CFAs who may change the team or even the game. Well said, my friend.

I also enjoy recalling that it was our own Pat Bowlen who made the first move, paying his left tackle far above what was common in the market. He was excoriated by the media, but in retrospect was proven to be right. Fans of the Broncos are also lucky to have one of the best owners in the NFL.

Don't say rebuild - say reload...

by Doc Bear on Feb 24, 2010 7:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Man!

You went 3/3 nailing my guys at C! How about J.D. Walton of Baylor?

MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!

by ejruiz on Feb 24, 2010 3:45 AM MST reply actions  

Tim, I re-read Jeremy's post of a few days ago "Finding Center". Very revealing!

BTW: I messed up a minute ago – hit the wrong key and got a post with a salutation.

Jeremy gave some info from McDaniels about Seth Olsen: “But Seth is a player that will learn how to snap the ball and play center once he’s here. So, to have three-position versatility inside is very big.” Jeremy continued saying that we can then assume that he did learn about snapping the ball and at 6-6 305, he is much more of what we are looking for in a center. Apparently he has had about a year to work on this.

After reading that and reflecting a bit, I am satisfied that we have our center and a back-up – either Dustin Fry or possibly Ben Hamilton. This frees up at least 1 draft pick, however, Erik Cook is an excellent prospect who could play more than 1 position and would be available in the later rounds if not as a UFA.

This also, in my mind, gives us the opportunity to take a McClain or Joe Haden if they are there at 10/11. Or a Iupati as we will need another OG and possibly an OT.

Thanks for your post. You – and several others – provided an avenue for me to work thru and find an answer to my question: “Who’s at Center?”

Thanks for your time and energy.

by Blackknigh on Feb 24, 2010 3:30 PM MST reply actions  

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