The Front 3: Where we are. Where we're going
by Vortex7 on Feb 3, 2010 1:00 PM MST
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PrintWell, I'm back folks. About a week and a half ago, I posted a "Where we are. Where we're going." for the O-Line and the vast majority of comments and recs were very positive - which I thank you for. This time, I'd like to focus specifically on the defensive line, and for some reason I feel as though I'm not going to be receiving as warm a reception (but bare with me, backs/receivers and defensive secondary/linebackers are forthcoming) as last time.
The reason I anticipate a less than stellar reception for this post is because you won't be reading too much about guys like Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, or Ryan Pickett below. I'm sorry. I know it's borderline sacrilegious to not have one or (in some cases) several of the above players in your MHR posts these days, but I just don't see it. I'll be the first to admit that when it looked like Dean Pees was coming to town, I was very much on the Ryan Pickett bandwagon. Now that Don Martindale is running the show, I don't feel as though it's as sure a thing, but more on that later.
Some general thoughts on the D-Line and this off-season/draft as a whole.
1. I try not to play fantasy football. Do I necessarily even agree with some of the stuff I post on MHR? Of course not. But, while acknowledging the fact that all I am is fanboy who watches a lot of NFL and NCAA football and reads even more about them, I'm trying to simulate what is actually likely to happen as best I can (while obviously putting my two cents in.) Reading about grabbing all the hottest free agents or Tim Tebow (who's a hot subject here recently) is fun to talk about, I just don't happen to agree with most of it. What good is getting Donovan McNabb (a name I actually read several MHRers connect with the Broncos) if we're just going to clamor for the next big free agent QB next year? If I were to play fantasy football, I'd trump all of you by gaining 50 pounds (I'm 6'3 170lbs), walking onto a D1 school (I have all 4-years of eligibility left from my first go around) and blackmailing McDaniels to draft/start at QB for the Broncos myself. That's a fantasy. I could also trade half our roster for Tom Brady, but, at the end of the day it's just not as fun for me.
2. Money. I know it's no fun to talk about, and I don't pretend to know how much Mr. Bowlen (or any other team's owner) anticipates spending for 2010: The Uncapped Year, but I can't imagine the number being too much higher than it was in 2009. I think smart teams, (hopefully) like Denver, will realize that going nuts this year would be fun for one year, but with uncertainty in 2011 and a lock-out and/or reinstitution of the cap soon to follow - it makes very little sense for any team building or reloading (or whatever word you want to use) for the future to go on a shopping spree. It kills me to say it (I have Kool-Aid running through my veins) but we aren't likely to win a Super Bowl this year no matter who we bring in, so tying up future cap space in a bunch of big name free agents doesn't help our cause as a team building toward 2011, 2012, etc.
How does this affect Denver's D-Line in 2010? To me, it's simple. This off-season, in my opinion, we need to bring in at least 2 new starting offensive linemen through either free agency or early/mid draft picks, spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a run stuffing ILB like Rolando McClain or Michah Johnson, resign Elvis Dumervil long-term, and figure out who our go-to receiver will be for 2010 and beyond whether it's Brandon Marshall or somebody we bring in through a trade or the draft. This draft is also very deep at corner, with a lot of talent available in the first 3 or 4 rounds. What if McXanders looks there? What about depth at running back? Something will have to give and while it's easy to pick the best free agents at every need position (i.e Logan Mankins, Richard Seymour) without thinking about our current roster and financial/draft selection compensation, it's not very practical.
I write this post assuming that the defensive line will still be one of our weakest units in 2010 and I won't be offering any quick fixes. No team fixes all of their problems in a single off-season and no team (including Indianapolis and New Orleans this season) are built perfectly. I think McDaniels and Martindale can go into 2010 with a lot of confidence if they maintain a strong secondary and linebacking corp while adding depth to the defensive line. The key word is depth. Depth, in my opinion, is more important for the defensive line than any other unit it football - especially if that team uses the 3-4. Guys like Ryan Pickett and Vince Wilfork want to get paid - and they deserve that right - but I think they are luxuries for teams with fewer holes that we have. Personally, I can't justify spending 4 or 5 million dollars a year on a guy who you'd be lucky if he was in on half of your team's defensive snaps. I'd much rather put that sort of money toward signing guys like Elvis Dumervil and Eugene Amano - guys who will be on the field contributing more often. I think we could be in good shape defensively if we maintain our pass defense and elevate our run defense to the top half of the league. For the purposes of this post I'm banking on a better running game on offense (our defense was hurt by too many quick offensive drives this season), added depth at the line, and a different brand of play calling (please, no more 3rd and 2 blitzes) being able do that.
Side note: Many will be quick to point out that New England, a team McDaniels will always try to emulate to various extents, boasted three 1st round picks(Seymour, Wilfork, and Ty Warren) on the defensive line. I'd be quick to point out that of the 3, only Seymour started on all three title teams, Wilfork started on one, and Warren on none. The original Patriot Super Bowl defensive lines were built with journeymen like Bobby Hamilton, Ted Washington, and Anthony Pleasant
Going into 2010, there's a lot to like about Ronald Fields. I've been vocally critical about Ryan McBean, but the hiring of Martindale as DC bodes well for him. Kenny Peterson will almost certainly be back, hopefully as a back-up, because he's a McDaniels guy and Marcus Thomas, whether you like him or not, deserves the opportunity to focus on one position. After that, LeKevin Smith should be as good as gone and while Vonnie Holliday was our best pass-rushing lineman in 2009, his knees make him no sure bet for 2010. We also have Chris Baker on the roster, and Everette Pedescleaux could be back. I'm obviously not going to bet the farm on either of these unproven guys (as I tend to do with Tom Brandstater), but Baker's talent was never what draft experts were concerned about. At the end of the day, I could see us spending a mid-round pick on a 3-4 end, signing a guy to rotate with Fields and Baker, and maybe getting another free agent or spending a late round pick on another. That's 2 maybe 3 additions - and none of them are likely to make a splash. You don't have to agree with that analysis, but that's what I believe. If you don't like it - I suggest not reading too much further you fool...I'm kidding...
Nose Tackle
In my first "Where we are. Where we're going." I eluded to the fact that I believed offensive guard was the position met with the most confusion on MHR. Nose tackle may be a very close second. There seems to be a belief that you need a hulking nose tackle to make the 3-4 work. I politely suggest that those who believe that don't watch enough football. There's always a few ways to skin a cat. What a nose tackle needs to do is effectively draw and hold up against double teams. The threat of penetration from the nose tackle position must always be brought upon the offense so that other players, namely the inside linebackers, can make plays. When it appeared as if Dean Pees was Denver-bound, picking up a player like Wilfork or Pickett made sense because Pees seemed to build his defense around power from the nosetackle position, but quickness can work just as well. If you look at the Dallas Cowboys, their Pro-Bowl nosetackle, Jay Ratliff (a 7th rounder in '05), is the lightest guy on their line at 6'4 303lbs. He's so dangerous because of his agility along with his toughness and willingness to take on blockers.
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but part of my problem in spending big money on a nose tackle is that you reward your most consistent defensive lineman last year, Fields, with a seat on the bench. Additionally, in tying up that kind of money you're obligated to try and maximize that player's snaps which could be detrimental Chris Baker (again, I have zero commitment to him, but he deserves a look.) I think the hiring of Don Martindale does a lot to support this belief. Martindale already knows the kind of player Fields is and if he were to call up one of his mentors (Mike Nolan or Rex Ryan for instance) I'm sure they could both point out that a large amount of the success they both had in Baltimore was with 6'0 315lbs Kelly Gregg, an undersized plugger with a quick first step and low center of gravity, manning the middle. Let's have at it:
Top 3 Free Agent Options:
1. Aubrayo Franklin - San Francisco 49ers - 6'1 317lbs - 29 years old.
Franklin may be difficult to get, but he's exactly the kind of player I'd like to see Denver pick up for the nose. Very high motor (you need one when you're thanklessly being thrown up against double teams), very quick off the line, and good power off a low center of gravity. Franklin played with Fields in San Francisco just a year ago, and so maybe the thought of reuniting would interest him. On the other hand, he may want a starting job off the bat (though he could potentially beat out Fields) which could lead him to following Mike Nolan to Miami (as he followed him from Baltimore to San Francisco). There's also the possibility that the 49ers franchise him (as the 49er bloggers are reporting). Still, if things were to change on either front - Franklin would be the perfect fit for the kind of nose tackle Denver needs.
via imgs.sfgate.com
2. Ian Scott - San Diego Chargers - 6'3 315lbs - 28 years old.
Signing Scott makes too much sense to ignore here. He started 7 games for the Chargers in 2009 after Jamal Williams was lost for the season and showed good burst and the ability to effectively bullrush. Scott can play in spurts at a high level, but asthma problems prevent him from consistently logging the kind of snaps the average starter would receive. While campaigning for a player with asthma may sound ridiculous (okay, it sort of is) keep in mind that he Scott would, hypothetically, be playing behind Fields and would offer us starter talent for a back-ups amount of playing time and price. With Jamal Williams back next season and the Chargers acting as one of the major players for a nose tackle like Dan Williams and Mount Cody - Scott, a UFA, could be expendable. Scott has played the vast majority of his career under Ron Rivera (first in Chicago then San Diego) but perhaps his 2008 position coach, Wayne Nunnely, can tempt him with a larger role with the Broncos.
3. Johnny Jolly - Green Bay Packers - 6'3 325lbs - 26 years old.
I flirted with a lot of different ideas in this slot. Perhaps the other big free agent nosetackle this off season, Casey Hampton. Perhaps trying to pry RFA Junior Siavii from Dalls. But at the end of the day, I was high on Jolly earlier this offseason, so I'm sticking with him. Granted, Jolly comes with more questions than answers. He has drug charges to deal with. He's been in trouble with some hits after the whistle. But he's also a good athlete who plays with a chip on his shoulder. He played end on Green Bay's jumbo frontline, but saw snaps at the nose, which is where I'd project him in Denver. He's one of the most intriguing RFAs on the market and his issues would make him expendable for Green Bay (especially if reports that they're interested in Julius Peppers are true) and cheap for us.
Also, how can you not like a guy responsible for this picture?
The Draft:
Overrated: Dan Williams - Tennessee - 6'2 329 lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - 1/2
Keep in mind that I'm the same guy who said in Mike Iupati was overrated in my last post. Saying that somebody, like Iupati or Williams, is overrated doesn't mean that I don't think they are the best at their positions as much as I believe that they aren't worth the mid first round pick that they'll likely go for. Dan Williams benefits greatly from the increase of NFL teams running the 3-4 and the fact that the draft's only other potential first round nose tackle is 370 pounds. Every scouting report I've read on him focuses on his stout, bottom-heavy build and experience in the SEC. I acknowledge his build is ideal for your typical nose tackle, but there needs to be more if you're going to spend such a high pick on him. One scouting report I read pointed out that he isn't as strong as his size would indicate and that he doesn't play with great explosion or leverage. These comments seemed ridiculous until this past weekend when Matt Tennant routinely handled him. Could Tennant be a very good center prospect? Absolutely, but regardless, I don't feel confident spending a high pick on a guy who's handled one-on-one by somebody 40 pounds lighter than him when he's going to need to consistently handle double teams at the next level.
Underrated: Boo Robinson - Wake Forest - 6'1 295lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - UFA
Robinson went from a mid to late round pick to a guy who may not get drafted in a relatively short amount of time. Robinson has dealt with weight issues (he's ballooned to as much as 340lbs) as well as concerns with consistency. His play dropped considerably from '08 to '09 and his strength becomes an issue, in part, due to his inability to maintain a specific weight. Still, if he stays in the 300-310lbs range he has the athleticism and fundamentals to be an interesting prospect and a steal if he goes undrafted.
Top 3 Draft Choices:
1. Torrell Troup - Central Florida - 6'2.5 310lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - 3/4
Coming into this post, I intended on focusing on nose tackles that would be available in the later rounds or go undrafted, believing that we'd be best suited signing a nose tackle in free agency. If that winds up not being the case (and hey, I'm no genius), Troup would be well worth a mid-round selection. Troup, like Robinson, didn't put up the kind of stats in 2009 as he did in 2008. Unlike Robinson, Troup still played at a high level despite the stats and manned the middle of the nation's #4 rush defense (granted primarily against Conference USA competition). Troup, while maintaining a reasonable weight (310-315lbs), still possesses the bulk to demand double teams, opens tackling lanes for his teammates, and possesses the lateral quickness to disengage from blocks. His performance in the East West Shrine game only solidifies his position as a solid mid-round pick for a team looking for a nose tackle.
2. Jeff Owens - Georgia - 6'1 304lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - 7/UFA
Owens is the definition of a plugger. He has a very low center of gravity, has incredible upper and lower body strength, and has speed in quick bursts. His fundamentals and play-recognition ability are very good. Owens has had trouble rebounding after tearing his ACL in 2008 and the injury has also taken away from his lateral movement. Concerns over how much better he can recover have lowered his stock. On a side note, Owens is known for being a model citizen in the locker room and on the practice field and has been recognized for his involvement in the community. While those traits don't necessarily make a great football player, they could be of interest in the late rounds or in the days after the draft to a team whose coaches put a premium on good, smart players.
3. Jay Ross - East Carolina - 6'3 314lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - 7th/UFA
Ross has been overshadowed a bit in recent months fellow ECU defensive tackle, Linval Joseph, but doesn't come with Joseph's injury history and will available later in the draft. Ross' production from the 1-technique in 2008 (9.5 TFL, 4.5 sacks) and burst off the line make him a worth-while developmental prospect if he were to go undrafted. But strength and lack of experience against top competition (unlike Troup and Owens, he was not invited the Senior Bowl or Shrine Game) leads me to feel as though, if both were available, I'd still take my chances on Owens.
Defensive End
If I had one wish for this position, it would be to get a little more dynamic. A player that I'd like to look hard at is Kenny Peterson. As said earlier, I'm 90% sure he'll still be a Bronco in 2010. He's a McDaniels guy and, as a platoon player, he has talent. Our lack of depth hit him more than any other player on our line. LeKevin Smith was a disappointment and Vonnie Holliday was strictly a pass-rusher. I'd very interested in what he could do with better depth behind him or, ideally, what he can do as a 3rd DE behind McBean and another starter.
The problem that arises to that extent is that it's hard to find a starter on the 3-4 line in the draft. The goal for 2011 should be to have a young starter to play opposite McBean (assuming he continues to improve). The best way to do that is to draft a talented guy in the middle rounds in this draft and let him develop as a back up this year. In the mean time, that means signing a veteran to either platoon with Peterson or start ahead of him - at least that's how I'm approaching the situation in this post.
You'll notice that there are two names I have yet to mention. One is on our roster, Marcus Thomas. As I said earlier, he deserves the opportunity to play an entire off season at one position (I'm assuming at end), but I'm banking less on him than I am on Chris Baker. The other player is not on our roster, Richard Seymour. The Raiders gave up a future first rounder for him, and I can't see why they'd let him walk. Even if they were interested in trading him for picks, I, for some reason, doubt they'd be very intersted in talking to us.
Top 3 Free Agent Options:
1A. Jarvis Green - New England Patriots - 6'3 285lbs - 31 years old
What's this with the 1A nonsense? I confess, it's a bit of cheating on my part. I wrestled with the idea not including Jarvis Green at all in this post, but felt as though doing so would be ignoring a guy too obvious not to mention. That being said, I don't see him wearing the orange and blue next season. Like Oakland with Seymour, New England took too great a leap of faith with Green not to take considerable measures to keep him - especially with no clear replacement for him. If I had to bet, I 'd say Wilfork is about to get slapped in the face with afranchise tag and Green will be given a competitive offer. If he isn't, Green has made it clear that he'd like to hit the open market and get paid. That's where he loses me. For a team trying to reload (I'd like to take this time to rec Boydy for posing a lot of great questions in his post) paying top dollar for a 31 year old lineman who is a good but not great starter doesn't make a lot of sense. If he tests the waters and finds that the market isn't as intersted in him as he hoped, he has the size and speed to penetrate into the backfield that we missed for the position this season and worth talking to.
1B. Marques Douglas - New York Jets - 6'2 290lbs - 32 years old
I confess that it's a little hypocritcal to criticize Green for his age and then talk about Douglas who is actually almost 2 years older, but let's let that slide. Douglas would come cheaper and for fewer years than Green. The issue with Douglas is that, even though he's a UFA, the Jets almost certainly have first dibs on him. Douglas was the less heralded player (behind Bart Scott and Jim Leonard) to follow Rex Ryan to New York and so a lot of this really depends on how much the Jets want to keep him. If he plays into their plans, he'll be a Jet again. If Rex Ryan is unable to offer him market value, maybe he'll put in a good word for his old friend Don Martindale. Obviously, pure speculation but if the Broncos were to outbid the Jets (which shouldn't be hard to do and would be no where near the kind of money Green would get) he has the strength and motor to be our RDE for a year or two while our draft pick develops.
via www.jetsgab.com
2. Nick Eason - Pittsburgh Steelers - 6'3 305lbs - 29 years old
Remember this guy? We drafted him 7 years ago and I wouldn't mind getting him back. The problem with players rated lower than Green or Douglas though is that there is no guaratnee they'd start. Eason is pure power at RDE, but he has never been asked to be a starter and past injury history makes it unclear over whether or not he could hold up as a starter for 16 games. Would he be an improvement over Smith and Thomas? I think so, but if we're looking to make Peterson a back-up, I don't know if Eason is the kind of guy who can make him one.
3. Dwan Edwards - Baltimore Ravens - 6'3 290lbs - 28 years old
Again, a good back-up, but not a sure starter. Edwards is a very good technician in the trenches who comes without Eason's injury history but also without his power. Edwards is more like a younger version of Kenny Peterson than his replacement in the starting line up and doesn't add the power or athleticism that I'd go into the offseason looking for at this position. Edwards makes this list because he'd probably come the cheapest of the 4 while also being the youngest and if we were to whiff on Green and Douglas, Edwards' health may be more appealing than Eason's upside.
via baltimoresun.image2.trb.com
The Draft:
Overrated: Corey Wootton - Northwestern - 6'7 270lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection: 1-2
Being an east coast guy who loves Big 10 football, it hurts me to put Wootton here, but he's a guy who's popped into a lot of drafts for us and I couldn't disagree more. Wootton is going to have a good NFL career, but likely on a team like Giants, Panthers, or Vikings that like big, long 4-3 ends. I don't see Wootton as a 3-4 end. He's a guy who's a very good rusher, but is inconsistent and has had trouble as a run-stopper and would need to add a lot of weight to properly bulk up a 6'7 frame. As a rule, and you can apply this to Carlos Dunlap and Greg Hardy as well, regardless of how big they are - 4-3 college ends make very little sense as 3-4 NFL ends. These are guys used to rushing the passer and containing the run against tackles and tight ends - not taking on double teams and plugging the run against tackles and guards. Wootton has the ability to be a great player, but not in our system.
via sports.wnur.org
Underrated: Corey Peters - Kentucky - 6'3 295lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - 6/7
It'll be interesting to see just how high Peters can rise in the next few months. With natural 3-4 end size, Peters is very athletic and plays with great pursit from side line to side line. He was very good at stuffing the run on an underrated Kentucky defensive front. He isn't naturally strong and would likely have to spend a year or two in the weight room before paying big dividends, but the draft is crapshoot, and if a few of the players we target end up getting taken early, Peters could be the developmental player we head into camp with which wouldn't be a bad thing.
Top 3 Draft Choices:
1. Mike Neal - Purdue - 6'3 293lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - 4/5
Ignore Draft Scout's round projection on this guy. Though I still sort of hate Neal for roughing up and upsetting my beloved Buckeyes, while most of you guys were drooling over Mike Iupati last week - I was drooling over Neal and when it's all said and done Neal will be, at minimum, a solid 3rd rounder and higher if he works out well as a 3-4 DE. Neal impressed by dominating the line of scrimmage at the senior bowl and showing up to weigh ins with excellent, solid bulk. His quick first step and overall strength as well as consistent production (10+TFL and 5.5 sacks in both 2008 and 2009) make him a very promising prospect, but being unproven in the 3-4 and lack of lateral agility could hurt him.
via bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com
2. Tyson Alualu - California - 6'2 291lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection -2/3
A guy I've had in all my mocks thus far. As the draft stocks of guys like Jared Odrick, Arthur Jones, and Mike Neal go up - expect Alualu's stock to go down as he is seen by some as a tweener - a player who plays above his natural ability. That could bode very well for us. Alualu has good lower body strength, excellent quickness and awareness of the snap, and enough lateral ability to close in on the run. He isn't overly athletic or creative as a rusher, but his production (11TFL 6 sacks) from the 3-4 end spot is still better than anything we currently have on our roster. Alualu isn't likely to be a workout warrior and I expect some teams to overthink and pass on him for a project, but for us - his attitude and experience in the 3-4 makes him a worthwhile selection in the 3rd round and a guy who could start sooner rather than later.
3. LaMarr Houston - Texas - 6'2.5 302lbs - Draft Scout Round Projection - 3/4
If we're talking pure athletic ability, Houston belongs at the top of the list. He has more than enough strength to hold up against the run and the explosion and maintained speed to make plays in the backfield and get after the quarterback. What worries me about Houston, foremost, are his injuries. The guy has trouble staying on the field. Secondly, he's gone from running back to 4-3 end to 4-3 tackle - his injuries preventing him from gaining much experience at any of them. He may be a bigger project than we're looking for, but if he tests well with our medical staff and McDaniels/Martindale feel as though he fits as a 3-4 end, the sky really is the limit for him.
What we do:
Free Agency:
We shop the bargain bin at nose tackle and grab Ian Scott, who would see more action here than in San Diego, to rotate with Chris Baker behind Ronald Fields. With the money we save not going after Wilfork, Pickett, or Franklin we send out feelers to Green and Douglas. Douglas winds up demanding less money for fewer years and so we outbid the Jets for him on a 2-year deal. Vonnie Holliday remains on our radar, but at the end of the day we decide that we may be best off getting our rookie's feet wet in the situational rushing role that Holliday filled.
The Draft:
McDaniels ignores the hype on Oderick, Houston and Neal and selects Tyson Alualu in the third round. After last year's draft, McDaniels voiced his belief that there wasn't much value at the D-Line positions. There is no such excuse in this deep draft and so Alualu is the choice. Alualu will play on rushing downs in 2010 and can move into the starting line-up as early as the end of the season/2011.
Final Depth Chart:
LE 1. McBean 2. Peterson 3. Thomas
NT 1. Fields 2. Scott 3. Baker
RE 1. Douglas 2. Alualu 3. Thomas
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Comments
Great research & rec'd for that
Having said that, I’m not convinced that the D-line did as poorly as some assume. From what I’ve read here at MHR, the D-line’s primary job is tie up blockers to allow the LB’s to make the play.
I’ve posted in other spots some statistics that show as the season went on, the D-line play, in terms of tackles actually improved, while the tackles by the LB’s dropped. The line had 66 tackles in the first 8 games, and 97 in the 2nd 8, whereas the LB’s tackles dropped from 204 in games 1-8 to 179 in games 9-16.
I agree we need an infusion of talent, but more than that we need guys who have played in the same system for more than a single season. I’m not totally sold on the idea that a guy fresh out of college will automatically generate an impact (see Mario Williams’ career).
I’d see a greater need would be to improve the LB corp and the O-line prior to dealing with the defensive line.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Feb 3, 2010 1:58 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
That's what I tried to do
I didn’t cut anybody on the D-Line, I just chose not to resign Holliday or Smith. I think Fields and McBean have a bright future here and I’m also interested in seeing how Baker and Thomas develop so I only added 2 quality but inexpensive free agents and a mid-round end who has experience in the 3-4.
As far as your assertion that we our needs are greater at LB and the O-Line I can do nothing but agree, hopefully the moves I made here give us the flexibility to go out improve in those areas (in my last post I had us getting Amano in free agency, tendering Kuper, and brining Pouncey, Petrus, and Tepper through the draft.)
by Vortex7 on Feb 3, 2010 2:11 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I like your thinking
If I could rec your post a 2nd time I would :)
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Very Impressive V7...
I like the way that you incorporate your evaluation of the existing players on our roster and PS into your projections…Love your “no pie in the sky” approach and really like your process in getting to the selections…
I’m diggin’ what you are sellin’…Thanks for the hard work!!!
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Feb 3, 2010 2:22 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
After agreeing with much of your O-line post, now I agree with much of your D-line post. This is getting scary! Although, I am a bit (jokingly) peeved you beat me to an analysis of some guys
Couldn’t agree more on Dan Williams, Corey Wooten, Mike Neal, Tyson Alualu, or Corey Peters. I disagree pretty strongly on Jeff Owens and Boo Robinson, however. I like your assessment of Torrell Troup and Lamarr Houston as well.
Can you provide a link or some other leads to finding McDaniels’ comments about being leery of drafting 4-3 guys? Because I don’t remember that and it seems out of character for him.
Finally, as someone who knows, excellent work. I appreciate the time you’ve put in — it helps me do my series better as well.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 3, 2010 3:03 PM MST reply actions
Well you lost me at the top with the Pickett thing, I stopped reading and started crying -)
I can’t justify spending 4 or 5 million dollars a year on a guy who you’d be lucky if he was in on half of your team’s defensive snaps.
Pickett makes less than $3M per year. In comparison, all of last year’s draft picks up until the early 20’s also make $3M or more per year. So I don’t think Pickett would cost what you list, and I don’t think the money would be hard to justify – especially considering that a guy like Pickett at NT would shift the smaller fields to DE, replacing Peterson, thereby upgrading two positions with one signing.
Green Bay is also paying around $5.5M/year to Raji. So resigning Pickett would tie up what, like $8.5M to the NT position. Both are probably too heavy to switch to DE, so I don’t care what they’re saying over in GB. I just don’t think they can justify resigning Pickett, but I think we not only could but that we absolutely should.
Oh, and I was wondering what you meant about being lucky if these big name FA’s play half the snaps. Do you have stats that show Wilfork or Pickett are out more than half of the snaps?
If you look at the Dallas Cowboys, their Pro-Bowl nosetackle, Jay Ratliff (a 7th rounder in ‘05), is the lightest guy on their line at 6’4 303lbs.
Ratliff is the except not the rule. For every 300lb starting NT, there’s probably three starting NT’s at 320+. This isn’t a Pees v Martindale thing and how they like to build, it’s by and large a league wide thing.
I’ve been vocally critical about Ryan McBean, but the hiring of Martindale as DC bodes well for him. Kenny Peterson will almost certainly be back, hopefully as a back-up
McBean is better than Peterson. Peterson certainly shouldn’t be a starter.
but part of my problem in spending big money on a nose tackle is that you reward your most consistent defensive lineman last year, Fields, with a seat on the bench.
Again, I think you overestimate the cost. I also think you’re worrying too much about Fields. He’s played DE before. He’s lighter, so he should move over. He’s not going to cry or need a hug. Bringing in a big NT upgrades both positions for $3M. That’s value.
There seems to be a belief that you need a hulking nose tackle to make the 3-4 work. I politely suggest that those who believe that don’t watch enough football.
Well, more often than not, you do. As you said, there’s always a few ways to skin a cat. But the ideas don’t have to be mutually exclusive. There is a very large school of thought that says its often easier to clog the middle and command the double team if you have a bigger guy in there.
Love the Cutler picture -) Nice work, well thought. I simply disagree with how to build it. I think you build a 34 from the inside out. NT takes out the linemen & ILB’s stop the run. You build the front around them. Obviously you’ve got to get to the QB, but we’ve already got that in Doom. I just feel like you don’t go cheap at the nose, and the price certainly doesn’t seem too high especially considering it upgrades two positions.
If you instead draft those positions or bring in less proven guys, how can we be sure we’ll be able to stop the run and win a MF Game? We can’t. We can’t take a chance this year by bringing in five cheap guys to compete with our existing depth and hoping one sticks. But signing Pickett or Wilfork gives us instant upgrade and security.
K, done rambling. Sorry so long. DId enjoy the post though!
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Sorry to disappoint, but we're going to disagree.
Below are two articles from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
The first: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/81050622.html
Quotes Pickett as saying he anticipates getting a bigger contract this offseason than his last contract. 5 million a year, no. Over 3? Definitely. Close to 4 is my guess.
As far as your assumption that Pickett is expendable for the Packers, well I hate to pee in your soup but it says here:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/82856802.html
That resigning Pickett is their #1 priority.
Now I’m not a reporter, but I do read the news.
As for your assertion that you need bulk at the NT position, 3 of the NFL’s Top 10 Defenses in terms of yardage (Baltimore, Denver and Dallas) primarily functioned from a 3-4 front with a starting NT that weighed 315lbs or less (Gregg, Fields, and Ratliff). That doesn’t include San Francisco (with Franklin at 317lbs) and San Diego (who started Scott at 315 and Ogemdi Nwagbuo at 304) who ranked 15th and 16th respectively in the league.
One is an exception, two is a coincidence, three is a trend, and so I’m guessing five is also a trend. It’s hard/expensive to find guys as big as Pickett who are also agile enough to close down on blocks. That’s why so many teams have developed their 3-4 defenses without one.
I'll have to look more closely at the stats before I comment and make a fool of myself
But here are my preliminary biases:
The main reason why I am not in favor of Boo Robinson or Jeff Owens (except as undrafted training camp fodder, thus with minimal risk) is because I want the bigger (in every sense, within reason) guy at NT.
Ultimately, if you are commanding double-teams, you could do it for one of two reasons: sheer size or superior strength/technique. If you get a smaller NT (6’0" – 6’2", 300 – 315 lbs.) then you must offset that by having them be strong enough to be able to push off/get out of one block, requiring assistance from the gap player next to him. The positive of having a smaller guy is leverage and (usually) agility. The negative is a lighter weight to push around, plus the deficiency in terms of both knocking down passes and reaching out to grab runners going by you.
I am of the opinion that better technique can almost always be taught at the NFL level, so I’m not going to grant that to the smaller guys as a true advantage. I think that agility is beneficial to them, but when you’re engaged by two blockers… well, it’s hard to be agile. So, that’s why I’m in favor of a bigger guy — there are advantages to having a squatty, bulky guy built like a Weeble, but I would imagine that’s primarily in a one-on-one situation where the agility can be utilized effectively. And that’s just what we saw in Georgia with Owens — he was part of a 4-3 front paired with Geno Atkins in a one-gap scheme. In a 3-4 front in a two-gap scheme, a guy of his profile just isn’t going to cut it.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 3, 2010 5:00 PM MST up reply actions
I've been looking all over
The web for where I got that quote on McDaniels and the 4-3 lineman. I thought it was the Denver Post, but no such luck. If I hallucinated it or just got it from some blog post on a website, I apologize and have since reworded that sentence. McDaniels does say in the Day 2 Draft Recap Presser on 4/26/09 that he didn’t feel as though many of the Front 7 prospects in last year’s draft were good values for what he was looking for. Is that based on the players themselves or their experience – I don’t know. I apologize. I assure you that I read it somewhere and will post it if I’m able to find it again.
In terms of Jeff Owens and Boo Robinson you’re 100% right. They aren’t great players and it’s difficult to imagine them becoming great NFL nose tackles. I did, however, emphasize the fact that I thought they were interesting prospects if they were to go undrafted. Which agrees with what you say above. Also, I don’t project either of them wearing a Bronco uniform next season (as i do with Alualu, Douglas, and Scott)
Part of the fun I have in these dumb little posts of mine is introducing players a lot of fans haven’t necessarily read about and highlighting those they have have heard in passing. I, by no means, intend to advocate all of them. I don’t particularly like the idea of acquiring Dwan Edwards, but I included him above because I think he’s relevant to what may be going on in the heads of McXanders. While I wouldn’t suggest buying a custom Denver Broncos Jeff Owen jersey (or Ted Larsen or Jay Ross for that matter) I think such a player is worth bringing into discussion.
Thanks for the clarification!
I cover Boo Robinson in my series and give him a 3-star grade (based on fit in the Broncos’ scheme/plans/player profile). I was going to cover Jeff Owens, but he would have gotten only a slightly better grade (due to his attitude and work ethic) and I think is a significantly lesser talent than Robinson.
It’s possible I passed over something obvious in your post that should have clued me in to this, but a suggestion for the future to avoid confusion: perhaps you can put in these some caveat that one of your main priorities is exposure, not necessarily prediction or speculation. Certainly, these players deserve exposure — I love your series just for the FA candidates. But it might help to make that a bit more clear.
Or, I could just read more closely before commenting… :)
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 4, 2010 8:04 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks for the response
I’ll concede some of that. I’ll give you that there are more ‘light’ NT’s than I thought. I’m not sure I would call it a trend necessarily though. I’ve heard that Pickett is their #1 priority; I read too =)
I said I don’t care what they say, though. That’s a lot of money and resources tied up at NT, and it doesn’t really pass the sniff test. I’ll believe it when I see it. If FA starts without him having a new contract, I would absolutely be on board with paying him your number of less than $4M.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
On second thought...
I was curious about the notion of smaller NT’s, the trend you suggest. So, I looked them up. There are only three starting NT’s in the NFL under 315lbs. Three. Their average weight is 322lbs. So after further review, I do stand my earlier assertion that Ratliff is the exception, not the rule.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Most impressive
Great article, and very insightful – especially for us British Broncos fans! This will give me a few names to bear in mind throughout free agency and as we approach the draft. Speaking of which – how do you feel about the draft starting on a Thursday? Or is it a Friday? Speaking from a selfish perspective (ie. late nights and work the next day), I’m not much in favour, but heck, since when has that counted for anything?
I agree with a lot of what you say, especially the prospective free agents. I think you’re absolutely right not to offer wads of dollars to the Seymours or the Mankins of this world. Let’s be honest, as a team, we haven’t been the best at picking up free agents who weren’t past their expiry date – Daryl Gardiner anyone?? We need to build through the draft and only augment that with calculated investment in the FA market. Here’s hoping anyway.
Anyway, excellent read. Thanks.
Most enjoyable.
I agree with a lot of your concepts, and appreciate the breakdown of talent. I especially enjoyed the back and forth between you, Sharpe and elvis. Seeing the varying viewpoints helps educate the bystanding layman (ie: me!).
As a simple matter of phsics, I’ve been dying to see Marcus Thomas get a solid chance at DE. His size and athleticism are a perfect fit.
We all want to see what Baker can bring to the table. I hope he doesn’t disappoint. I don’t think he will.
I’ll also go along with you (if I get your gist right) that more attention should be paid to DE in the draft than NT, though Sharpe made a legitimate point about a bona fide NT shifting Fields outside to bolster two positions with one signing.
Good post and comments. Much to digest, here.
Good Post
Myself i think Denver is set as NT and I don’t know why people are clamoring to get a new NT. As far as DE goes Denver’s roster is full of decent backups There is not much difference between the top 5 on the roster. Denver gets a starting calliber DE and the whole defense becomes better. I would consider trading down in the first round and select Carlos Dunlap.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Some are clamoring for a new NT
for the same reason that they clamor for a new QB — conventional wisdom says that each of those players has to fit a particular profile, which may or may not be the profile that McDaniels is using.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
I'm not clamoring for a NT for any such reason
I want a solid upgrade at NT because I see it as a way to upgrade two positions at once. Nothing more. Not a knock on Fields. And I’m certainly not clamoring for a new QB, in fact I’m opposed. Although I’m not sure if you were referring to me.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I wasn't aiming that comment at you EA
I think your reasoning is very sound.
I also didn’t take 3nS’s comment as aimed at you. I saw it as a more generic comment.
Sorry if I gave offense.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Feb 3, 2010 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
You didn't... Thanks for the clarification though =)
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I enjoyed the post and thank you for the hard work.
I am sure there will be additions to the line, but who and what McD wants is another question. How does he perceive the development of Baker and Pedescleaux and will they ever make the grade? How does he rate performances by Thomas, Smith, McBean, Peterson and Holliday? Will any of these guys be cut? I believe the nurturing of Ayers may take a year or two if he ever develops at all. What will his main focus be on when McD drafts a DE/NT and will he try to persuade Wilfork to cross over? He did a pretty good job with the F/A last year and there is nothing saying he won’t again except with what’s going on in CBA. I really believe we will see a lot of new faces this spring. What say you..
bfree, I say stay tuned.
Thus far, in my 2 posts, I have projected 7 new faces on the Broncos 2010 roster on the lines alone. Looking ahead, I can see at least one new face on every unit of our team.
That being said, and I’m sure a lot of people above would agree with this, I’m no more or less a draft expert than anybody else. If I had to guess, the Broncos are more likely to do less maneuvering that we’re all projecting than more. Even though I’m trying to be as realistic as possible by not projecting a lot of big names and a bevy of draft picks – I still wouldn’t be surprised if the Broncos end up doing even less than I think.
The second year of a new regime is tricky. As we already can see by the coaching changes, McDaniels has a definite idea of what he liked and didn’t like coming out of the 2009 season. Now that McDaniels has a year under his belt, I can absolutely see him fine-tuning the roster to fit his mold better, but not at the cost of stifling young talent.
Jeff Legwold wrote a great article a few weeks ago about Shanahan’s tendency to become impatient with young talent and sit them behind overpriced veterans – “muddying the waters” as he put it. Great teams are still built through the draft and, while free agents provide stop gap solutions and alternatives for positions in which teams haven’t drafted well, it’s not prudent for us, myself and my posts included, to depend on them.
I whole heartedly agree with you and loved the post, see...see...I rec'd this ^ up there...Heh!
It’s kind of funny though that some have expressed concerns with the D-Line and it is something that needs to be looked at, but McD trusted his 3-4 year veterans to be the cog in the wheel and there were successes and failures throughout the season. What people don’t understand or are too impatient to stand still is the fact that it is not unusual for a D-Lineman to take 2,3 or 4 years to develop and that’s in the same system and scheme. Some of these guys have had to endue 3 or 4 different schemes under new coaches each year. For that, I think they did an outstanding job. That is the reason I hld an judgement against them. As I see it, the best thing McD did for the defense was to hire the D/O from within as these guys are acquainted with his style and we should be better this fall. Thanks again..
Excellent post Vortex. Rec'd. 2nd one in a week. You're on a roll!
I like your projections. About the only change I would suggest here is Troup rather than Alualu (both would be great!) as he might work at NT to spell Fields, shifting Thomas to DE (as Sharpe & jayrockstone mentioned). He could also begin at DE and leave Thomas at NT – and depending on Baker’s development – all of that could change. We really need 2-3 on the DL – which you have addressed. I would be very happy with them if that is what our outcome would be.
GB is not going to let Pickett go. Raji is not proven at the nose and Pickett is too valuable a commodity to let go.
What we need are more picks in the top 4 rounds. Trading down in Rd 1 to about 22 (NE pick) could net Pouncey (I think he will go late 1st or very early 2nd RD) and another 3rd rounder. This makes more sense to me than taking McClain – who is a good player – but I would rather spread it out with more picks. Taking the 3 OL guys – as you outlined in your previous post – makes a lot of sense. An ILB as Thompson makes sense. Also adding another RB such as Ben Tate makes sense as I see Hillis not working very well in this offense. Probably after the draft, when Shanahan sees that Portis is on his last legs, he will offer a 2011 7th Rd pick for Hillis. Sorry guys. I really like him – but he hasn’t played much. Another pick could come with trading Sheff maybe to CLE for a 5th – if we are lucky, we’ll get a 4th. Also wouldn’t hurt to throw a CB into it. For another TE, Branson might be just the ticket. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him used as a blocking back to back up Larsen.
Nice post, Vortex. Thanks for your time and energy.
amazing stuff, thx!
really appreciate the depth here….along with the analysis about how this depth can fill a team need. I think your analysis is incredibly sound. It is highly unlikely we do anything dramatic in the offseason for big name players or even to gain a number of 1/2/3rd round draft picks. We certainly need some upgrades in talent, but I agree that mostly the need is in the area of depth.
Does everyone forget that the Broncs had the most pro bowlers of any team 8-8 or worse? This team does not have a glaring talent deficit. Your eye seems to parallel the way I imagine the McD/X way forward…..subtle additions, scheme specific, coaching develops the players. The real question is:
Can McD/X make this program successful? Have they made good judgments? Is their coaching/scheme finely coordinated with their personnel acquisitions?
It may not all come together. The fact is, to me, there must be improvement over last year. There is too much talent on this team. People will surely take Scheffler, Hillis and these are guys we didn’t use well……was our Oline worse than GB’s Oline, no way, but we didn’t adapt our offensive scheme well enough to still get wins like GB did. McD will have to win with what he gets. Its never going to be perfect and I think he’s been dealt pretty solid cards. If he is as good as I give him credit for, then Denver will be better than 9-7 and in the playoffs next year.
I’d really like to hear what you think about ILBs. After reading your posts, I’m convinced that this is a spot they will target heavily, possibly with the 10/11 pick. I expect either Witherspoon/McClain still available then….or maybe the Micah guy….who do you take?
To me this is a position where talent/athleticism/headiness can pay big dividends and we seemed to come up short with Williams/Davis/Woodyard
I haven't spent that much analyzing the linebackers yet...
I usually read a lot at leisure a week or two before writing a post. I will say that I have always been in love with the idea of Rolando McClain wearing the orange and blue. Will he be around around by the time we pick? I think the odds are better than a lot of us think.
Something that interests me is whether a team picking in the 20’s (New England, Baltimore, etc) really covets somebody like Dez Bryant or Dan Williams (2 guys I absolutely do not want for us) do they let us trade back 10-15 picks and pick up a 2nd rounder along the way? That lets us grab Pouncey (who, personally, is my favorite lineman in the draft) and address ILB later.
As far as ILB go, McClain is the best of the bunch, and I’d like to see a hammer to go along with the athlete that is D.J Williams. To that extent, and I reserve the right to change my mind in the next few weeks, I like Micah Johnson better than Spikes or Witherspoon. I don’t think we should be fooled by the draft projections – he’s proving himself as a complete backer who can cover tight ends, roam sideline to sideline, and obviously knock people out. Expect him to go sooner (late 2nd early 3rd) than later (4th).
Couldn't agree more
Couldn’t agree more with your draft thoughts for rounds 3-4. If we get additional picks in first and third for BM and Sheff, I’d definitely be thinking O-line in pick 10/11 unless McClain is still available, then Pouncey or Asamoah or Mike Johnson with second 1st rounder and maybe second. Then in third, pick some combination of Torell Troup or Cam Thomas for NT, and one of Aluala, Neal, or Houston with the other. And then target Micah Johnson in the 4th, assuming we didn’t pick McClain or Weatherspoon in the 1st.
Like your style, vortex
This isn’t meant as a knock on anyone else, but I start to get disappointed reading mock drafts all the time. When I see a mock, I immediately think, “Well, since I saw it here, that’s pretty much a guarantee it’ll never happen.”
I really like your approach of letting those of us who haven’t seen much college football or don’t have the time to sift through everything out there know more about who some of the prospects are. It’d just be really cool to go through the 3 days of the draft this year and not go “Who?” on half the picks.
Your work is much appreciated and highly rec’d.
Step aside, my friend, I been doin' it for years.
Said sit on down, open ya eyes, say open up ya ears....
Hey Vortex -- quick suggestion
Any interest in a collaboration?
I just realized that you and I are doing series in similar veins (i.e., exposure to prospects at each position), and could pool our resources and thus create a better product without either stepping on each others’ metaphorical toes or overwhelming the MHR members with two gigantic posts on the same topic each week/every other week.
I notice yours is more of a breadth approach, whereas mine is more focused on depth. You include FA guys, I include more prospects. Perhaps we can find some synergy, if time and whatnot allow. Let me know in your reply and we can potentially exchange information.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 4, 2010 9:52 AM MST reply actions
That is an excellent idea.
You could use Google Docs to share information. It is what we use for our UFR posts.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Thanks Kirk!
Probably easier than emailing and having to struggle with formatting differences
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 4, 2010 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
Sharpe and V7...This is a great idea!!!
I agree with KK that you two would be a great Team!!!
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Feb 4, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions
I agree that we'd be a solid team
I mean this as no disrespect to any other posters, but there are obviously guys who you look forward to reading more than others, Sharpe is one of mine.
That being said, as of right now I sort of like what’s going on with “Where we are. Where we’re going.” I feel as though we offer different enough information (you sort of do a complete draft breakdown while I do an abridged draft/free agency analysis/mock) As an East Coast Broncos fan I don’t really get any time to communicate with Broncos fans (with the exception of the occasional guy at a bar wearing an Elway jersey who I hug whether welcome or not) I like venting in these posts. If there is an issue of stepping on eachothers toes, I’d be willing to coordinate our posts better.
However, it’d be great to talk to a fellow fan and I would be very interested in collaborating with something else with Sharpe after WWAWWG (that looks awful) has run its course. Maybe something after March 5th when the combine is over and free agency begins? I think it could be really good.
Let me know! And anybody reading, what would you be interested in us doing?
That is a problem that can be solved.
If you need some guidance help, send me an e mail and I will be happy to assist. Emmett helped me and some others out with this and I can “pay it forward.”
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Thank you!
In a format like this, it’s always extremely beneficial to hear that one is not simply regurgitating ideas for one’s own sake.
There is no issue of stepping on toes on my end — that was an unfortunate metaphor on my part. I agree that you take a significantly different approach, and if you’re comfortable with the distinction so am I.
I am open for collaboration in the future. If an idea presents itself to you, let me know. My email is on my profile page.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 4, 2010 2:23 PM MST up reply actions
A thought
if you don’t collaborate on a post, I would be happy to moderate a Q&A with you guys….
Thoughts?
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 4, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
As long as the topic is of interest, sure!
Oh, and time is conducive.
So essentially, it depends. I’m not much help, am I? :) I am certainly open to the idea, however.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 4, 2010 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
The topic would be draft
Such as talking about the research you’ve put into a particular position. A possible question for the DL would be “If Denver managed to sign A Wilfork or Pickett, how would you re-evaluate your targets?” or some such… We could hash out questions slowly through the email, more as a way to channel the discourse than anything… It could be a flop, or entertaining or enlightening… Who knows?
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 4, 2010 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
Anything related to the draft is definitely of interest
I’m in, within the month of February. I’m in a school setting at work, and March is CSAP time — if you’ve ever been in education in Colorado, you know just how crazy that can be both during and after normal work hours.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 4, 2010 4:57 PM MST up reply actions
I feel for ya
I work in public ed in California — though our crazy month for state testing is the 1st week in May.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Haha...I actually think "regurgitating ideas for one's own sake"
is exactly what I’m doing to an extent. The Broncos not being in the play offs really makes me sick to my stomach and the thought of blabbing my thoughts and people reading and even, at times, creating a dialogue with me is very exciting in a very selfish way.
Though you could have been kidding/not talking to me.
:)
I was actually talking to me
It seems a common motivation! :)
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 4, 2010 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
I guess I am in the minority
I agree with the low-round smaller, quicker NT theory.
Ray “Sugarbear” Hamilton, RUBIN CARTER, Tim Krumrie, Greg Kragen and Jay Ratliff.
Big guys take up space while being blocked by two guys, but the quick guys blow by the double teams of the fat boys and raise havoc in the backfield.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
It's a matter of philosophy, to be sure
I just don’t think that Josh McDaniels shares your philosophy
One thing’s for sure, it’s HECKA cheaper to go your/Vortex7’s route than looking for “ideal” size
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
by Sharpe as a Tack on Feb 6, 2010 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
Obviously, I'm with you.
Another thing that bothers me, is a lot of the times the big guys just topple over – completely giving up making a play in the backfield, and just cause a roadblock on the line of scrimmage. I rather see a guy keep his feet and try to collapse on the running lanes.
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