Horse Tracks - 3/1/10 - Some Kudos are in Order
by John Bena on Mar 1, 2010 5:52 AM MST
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Good Morning Broncos Country! I want to start thins morning by giving some Kudos to E.J. Ruiz and the Live Mock Draft Crew. For those of you that don't visit the site during the weekend, E.J. hosted a Live Mock Draft yesterday - 3 Rounds - eclipsing 8 hours and nearly 2000 comments. It was a huge undertaking, yet E.J., with help from Jeremy and others, pulled it off without a hitch. A MHR Salute to E.J. and all those involved in the Mock Draft for really showing the true meaning of the MHR Community!
2010 Draft Combine - Sounds from Day 3
Quarterback prospects Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen and Colt McCoy talk to the media during the 2010 Scouting Combine.
2010 Draft Combine - Sounds from Day 4
Some of the NFL draft's top defensive back prospects talk to the media during the 2010 Scouting Combine.
Big linemen take priority on wish lists - The Denver Post
The camera-flash setting is alive and well at the NFL's scouting combine.
Krieger: With death of Broncos' Darrent Williams, what might have happened if not for lost chain? - The Denver Post
Musings for a Monday morning from the Darrent Williams murder trial as it enters its second week . . .
No NFL salary cap means virtually no trade talk - The Denver Post
At this point, don't expect the Broncos to trade receiver Brandon Marshall or tight end Tony Scheffler anytime soon after the free agent/trading period opens at 10:01 p.m. MST on Thursday.
McDaniels meets the college kids | All Things Broncos
Just had some coffee talk with Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and his trusted assistant Mark Thewes.
Easy to see CU's struggles at the NFL combine | All Things Broncos
It is just small snapshot, but look at the NFL’s scouting combine and it’s fairly easy to see CU’s uphill battle in the Big 12 these days.
Around the Combine: Day Three
The nightmarish collapses which Broncos head coach josh McDaniels experienced in his first year at the helm was well documented. There was the 6-0 start, followed by the 2-8 finish. There were the personality clashes with WR Brandon Marshall and the benching of other starters. Then, there was also the 44-24 whipping that Jamaal Charles and the Chiefs put on the Donkey’s to close out the season at INVESCO. (Editor's Note - Even the Chiefs website is the definition of class...really, 'Donkeys'???)
Combine's weekend standouts | National Football Post
The National Football Post takes a look back at the weekend and breaks down prospects who stood out.
Wilson: Jeff Owens benches 44 reps | National Football Post
University of Georgia strongman defensive tackle Jeff Owens put on a show at the NFL scouting combine today, hoisting 225 pounds 44 times.
Wilson: C.J. Spiller dashes away from pack | National Football Post
Clemson running back C.J. Spiller accelerated out of his stance, bolting upfield at Lucas Oil Stadium.
Biggs: Vikings re-sign WR Lewis | National Football Post
The Minnesota Vikings are bringing back one of their potential free agents.
Report: Skins working to bring Daniels back | National Football Post
The Washington Redskins may be switching to a 3-4 defense, but they figure Phillip Daniels can be just as effective as a defensive end for them in their new scheme, reports Jason Reid of the Washington Post.
Myron Rolle: | National Football Post
After a year studying abroad at Oxford University, the most common question for Florida State safety Myron Rolle is pretty simple.
Biggs: Wade likes 5th preseason game | National Football Post
You will not find an NFL coach that wouldn’t do just about anything for an extra week of training camp.
Report: Rolle will be cut loose this week | National Football Post
Antrel Rolle will reach the open market this week in advance of the opening of free agency at 12:01 a.m. Friday.
Biggs: Manumaleuna will be targeted in free agency | National Football Post
Chicago Bears general manager Jerry Angelo made it clear when Mike Martz was hired as offensive coordinator that he believed the roster was set for the newcomer to install his system around quarterback Jay Cutler.
Wilson: Golden Tate has strong combine | National Football Post
Notre Dame wide receiver Golden Tate registered some fast times today at the NFL scouting combine.
Wilson: Chargers to assign high tender to McNeill | National Football Post
The San Diego Chargers have already indicated that they intend to secure restricted free agents Shawne Merriman, Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd with the high tender.
Chargers, Lions discussing trade to send Cromartie to Detroit
The Detroit Lions have been in discussions with the San Diego Chargers about acquiring cornerback Antonio Cromartie in a trade, a league source said Sunday.
Don't tread on Tebow: QB defends Meyer against coaching criticism
Anyone criticizing Urban Meyer evidently must go through Tim Tebow. The Florida quarterback vigorously defended his college coach Sunday at the NFL Scouting Combine amid rumblings that Meyer chose winning over adjusting Tebow's throwing motion to make it NFL-ready.
Ford’s speed, drill work is the morning’s hot topic - NFL.com
Something can be taken from every workout and drill at the NFL Scouting Combine. To those who watched the first group of quarterbacks and wide receivers Sunday morning, Clemson’s Jacoby Ford is the player who caught the most attention.
Cable says he was confident in his Raiders future - NFL.com
Tom Cable told reporters at the NFL Scouting Combine on Sunday that he never believed he wouldn’t be back as the Raiders’ coach — the team never made a statement saying he definitely would return — and he’s preparing for the 2010 season.
Bryant can’t do drills, permitted to leave combine - NFL.com
With his interviews and physicals complete, Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant sought permission from NFL Scouting Combine officials and left the event Sunday morning, according to NFL.com’s Gil Brandt.
‘Pacman’ schedules March 19 workout for teams - NFL.com
Adam "Pacman" Jones will work out for NFL scouts March 19, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
Expect Oklahoma's Bradford to push his way to top of draft
I spent most of the morning on Day 2 at the NFL Scouting Combine workouts sitting with coaches and personnel types discussing what this event meant to them, as well as how they self-evaluated their programs. The afternoon was spent talking with some of the outstanding prospects in Indianapolis. It was a full day of football and I want to share it with you.
With trend of going young in backfield, combine offers possibilities
Just as the fresh crop of running backs prepare to audition for teams at the NFL Scouting Combine on Sunday, vacancies have been created for them with recent moves around the league.
Talent unquestionable, but injuries, character make WR class tricky
Assessing the wide receivers in the 2010 NFL Draft is tricky because, although the position is unquestionably deep, there are some nagging concerns about its highest-rated players
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Thx John and great job on draft by EJ!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Thanks John...Lots of stuff to check out today
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
Poor Jacoby Ford....doomed himself to raider nation...
But the I like the player he thinks he resembles most…..Eddie Royal!
Thanks for the tracks!
"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
Thanks John. There's tons to get to, today. Gotta love the combine. Also, it feels weird being able to use the subject line again.
Mile high salute to EJ. That was a lot of fun yesterday.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
Ditto on the Kudos to EJ & crew
Thanks John, your work on bringing us the links is greatly appreciated.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Thanks John
Great job EJ. The Mock Draft was fun.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Thanks, John (And EJ).
As if I needed a reason to like the Chiefs even less…
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 1, 2010 9:32 AM MST reply actions
Yikes, the mock draft didn’t go so well for my Denver Broncos.
Looks like we mock over-drafted an OG and landed a questionable QB prospect in round 2. Whatever happened to drafting the best player available instead of reaching for need? Guess the MHR Bronco draft picker and McDaniels have conflicting philosophies.
When an OG gets picked in the Top 11 overall picks, I believe that will be the first time an interior O-linemen gets picked that high (at least in the last few decades). Maybe some of you can think of OG/C going that high, but I don’t recall one.
Can’t wait for March 5th. I hope Denver uses the highest possible RFA tags on Elvis and Marshall.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
The person who was drafting for the Broncos couldn't make it, so it was based on the sheet they emailed EJ.
It would have turned out better if everyone who signed up was able to make it. Hopefully for the next one, there is a better turn out.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Mar 1, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
The Bronco drafting guy couldn’t make it? Man…. talk about the wrong guy to miss out on the event.
Anyhow… I saw that Ligaments-Out was mighty angry that San Diego slapped the 1st and 3rd tender on him. I expect the same reaction from a lot of RFA in the next few days. Could be some fireworks later this week.
San Diego Super Chokers – The annual preseason Champs, eternal post season chumps. Stay Classy
Yeah, really. It was a lot of fun, too. Anybody who wasn't there, not only him, missed out on a great event.
This is true. There will be lots more news about the RFAs this week. Leading up to March 5th is going to be very exciting. I know that I’ll be keeping a close eye on MHR as news starts to break.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Mar 1, 2010 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
aside from our guy (lol) sorry Charlie - it was fun
EJ worked his butt off all day to make it work.
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 2, 2010 2:38 AM MST up reply actions
re: interactive MOCK & drafting an OG 'that' high
The last OG to go that high (at # 10) was a classmate of mine, Chris Naeole, and we have to go back to the 80s to find examples of an OG going even higher. if Iupati is a future HOFer then it’s a good pick but taking an OG that early is pretty controversial otherwise.
Also, the strategy behind selecting Pike in the 2nd was baffling.
no goats, no glory.
Yep, pretty hand-scratching both. Lot of fun though, well ran too.
In fairness, though, I botched a pick too. Represnting the Skins, I had a quick list of OT’s that would should be available to me in the 2nd but didn’t cross off Ducasse. He’s 330lbs and obviously won’t fit in the ZB scheme. I would have picked up Best if I had better paid attention.
When the Denver rep picked Lupati, I would’ve gone with Dan WIlliams. Both were a reach, but a guard? In fairness, though, we couldn’t trade back and Berry, Haden, and McClain were gone. Maybe he could have gone with a DE there though. Don’t know what Pike was about. Wasn’t a fan.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
lots of thoughts
BPA rankings aren’t Big Board rankings, which people don’t seem to realize. There’s been a trend — IMO — towards raising the value of interior-OLs because of role they play, which includes protecting the QB from delayed middle blitzes/zone blitzes, etc., but there’s still a problem with the logic, both in terms of positional impact as well as the proper way of addressing that area as a need.
Teams are prepared for all the contingencies in the early going so they usually know who they’ll pick. I think a Dan Williams pick might have made more sense even though it’s early. I would have strongly considered Trent Williams, too, considering the uncertainty over RT and his potential as an OG. My main problem with the Iupati pick is not so much with the pick itself but with how it fits into our overall draft strategy. Admittedly, some trades to change position might be required, but I’d feel very comfortable with some of the OLs available later on. I’ve suggested Saffold and Newhouse as later picks. I’d prefer seeing us make use of what this draft offers, such as a wealth of DLs, and solve the problem at OG through any of the alternative problem solving methods available to us, including next year’s draft. Guard can be fixed. There is no Guard shortage in recent years. I’d take what this draft offers us and eschew attempting to pound gnats with sledgehammers.
no goats, no glory.
by Colinski on Mar 1, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, said, Col.
I share your thoughts on Iupati. I like him (although I’m not as high on him as others… I still remember his holding problems and how lost he looked outside of LG), but I would prefer to take the talent that the draft offers at those particular picks rather than have to make a giant reach for need. Especially when, as you say, OG can be found later on.
Incidently, Draftek’s mock has us taking Trent Williams. Their logic:
We’re trying something different here to help solve the Broncos O-Line needs. Last week it was Iupati at this spot and that just seemed a little high for a player that has only demonstrated the ability to play OG. This week we’re trying the OT/OG strategy to see how that feels. Yes, Williams has not played much OG, but his superior size and athleticism projects well as a potential Guard as well as Tackle. Throw in that Ryan Harris may not be ready to go 100% this fall and another franchise level RT looks very attractive. The Broncos just were not the same after Harris went down. Stockpiling talent and versatility on the O-Line makes sense.
Has anyone considered the fact that McD apparently prefers to sit O-linemen for a year before playing them? (Unless I’m mistaken here.) How would this affect Iupati/Williams?
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 1, 2010 9:47 PM MST up reply actions
"BPA rankings aren’t Big Board rankings"...
I would have picked up Best if I had better paid attention.
I think I was unclear. I meant Jahvid Best (RB), not “best” player available.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I understood your comment
I like Best and I’ve been talking about him since last year.
Also, I hope it was clear that Big Board rankings are not necessarily a suggestion of who we should draft at any given point in the draft. The error is to believe that BB rankings state the BPA (they do but with caveats) and that we should follow them religiously in making selections.
BTW — I like Iupati but he’s an unfinished project, as anyone who saw the Senior Bowl would know. The tendency to see the OG situaton through blinders is what I object to. There’s some very good OTs who could replace Harris during his injury recovery and settle into OG later on, which is an idea I’ve pushed previously. I see Trent Williams as being relatively advanced compared to Iupati. In other words, the best OG is an OT. The odd thing is they’re moved inside all the time but draftniks still ignore this fact and fixate on position. Moreover, I refer to OC/OG as a single position for a reason even though there are differences. In other words, the best OC at many junctures in the draft could be an OG, and vice versa.
no goats, no glory.
94 right?
That’s what I said when Lupati was picked. I think it was 94 when the last guard was picked in the top ten. That right?
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
97 Chris Naeole (OG) at #10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Naeole
The NFL site is often confusing because categorization is loose and many OTs (Leonard Davis) are labeled OGs, but the last ‘real’ OG was Naeole. It could be plausibly argued that Davis was an OG but he played OT, too, and they labeled him as one. The once in a generation type of athlete would allow us to deviate from the logic but nobody has labeled Iupati as anywhere near that good.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2787446
no goats, no glory.
Thanks for the clarification/correction!
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Hard to price a future HOFer right?
We could likely trade down a few spots if he’s our guy.
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 2, 2010 2:40 AM MST up reply actions
I just don't understand the logic in missing out on a guard you want simply because
“Nobody takes guards that high.” Oh well…
On an unrelated topic, did Colt McCoy’s interview make him seem like the kind of player McDaniels might want? Or is his lack of height still enough to turn McD away? I like the fire the kid shows…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
and maybe "fire" was a bad word
…since he appeared semi-comatose while he talked. I just like his attitude that “Hey, I’ve won games. My height is what it is and I can’t change it.”
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
positional value
Top ten picks are misered because you wouldn’t want to pay more to a rookie than what you’d pay an all-pro OG. The Guard position isn’t paid as much (on average) because OGs don’t impact the game as much as other positions. It’s sort of like a reverse sale in which you would be paying way more instead of less. Rookie contracts are set according to draft slot, although some positions, such as QB, earn more than their slot.
BPA is concept that confuses people. The truth is that there is no true scale that allows apples and oranges comparisons. BPA measures athletic ability, which is rare and “normally distributed,” but a punter isn’t worth as much as a QB now matter how good he is.
Good Guards can be found later in the draft so there isn’t a good reason to take one early in the draft unless he’s a future HOFer and it’s the only hole on your roster.
Re: McCoy. I just don’t see a good reason to take McCoy or any other (except maybe Bradford if he falls) QB in the early going. I could see them taking one later but a FA vet would make much, much more sense right now. I don’t see any indication of them wanting to replace Brandstater already and it would be too soon anyways. Questionable reporting on this subject should be ignored.
no goats, no glory.
I understand what you're saying
But again, you can find a good player at any position late in the draft, just as you can find a bust at any position in round 1. My only thing is, if the team identifes an OG as the guy they want, why be so concerned with what conventional wisdom says is the best value? Take the player you think is going to help your team the most, charts and values and everything else be damned.
Re: McCoy, I’m torn, but I agree with most of what you say. If McCoy fell to 3rd or 4th round because of his height and injury, I would be very excited to see the team pounce on him. Then again, I agree with you….we already have TB, and what we would need then would be a vet to replace Simms, assuming he is shown the door. There is just something about McCoy I really like. But I’m an Orton guy, too. I’m conflicted all over the place today…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Meant to add...
Unfortunately, I think we became the poster boys for how much poor G/C play can affect a team and, correspondingly, how much GOOD G/C play might impact the game…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
how that translates
Making OG/OC a priority means drafting one, or more, early (2 – 4) and waiting at least a year for him to develop. It also means that you sign a FA, since the calendar for replacement has expired — so to speak.
Note: I’ve ignored the possibility of a 1st rounder because they’re so rare and usually require a ‘stacked’ roster elsewhere. There’s nothing wrong with a OG/OC pick in the 1st but it’s unusual to meet the pick criteria.
no goats, no glory.
value
It’s not the player, it’s the position. if an OG was that good then they’d turn him into an OT, where he could have a far greater impact on the game. All OLs are OTs if they can handle the position (ignoring the relatively small differences in somatotype). Modern OLs are valued mostly for their ability as pass protectors. A Guard’s value to a team would come as an OT — if he can handle the position. Run blockers were relatively more valuable in the past (70s, etc.) and they were drafted higher as a result. The drafts from that time show this relationship between how the game was played and which players — and talents — were valued. High picks of that time include: John Hannah, (#4 – 73), John Hicks (#3 – 74), Ken Huff (#3 – 75). There’s also indications that the 80s was a time when OGs were valued and it also shows in the draft: Mike Munchak (#8 – 82), Bruce Mathews (#9 – 83). Guards remain valued but not as highly as in the 70s and it begins to decline as the passing game gains importance.
Re: McCoy. The standard in the NFL that most teams follow is to have one developmental QB. We have one already in Brandstater. Most teams rely on an experienced reserve for their 2nd teamer but that can be an older vet or an experienced younger player. Drafting a QB now would leave us without an experienced backup. Brandstater could be the 2nd stringer once he gains more experience but we’d be risking a lot if we attempted to go without a more experienced QB as depth. We could draft another QB in the near future but a QB pick now merely supplants Brandstater without providing a quality backup. It’s more likely that we’d sign a vet AND replace Brandstater with another young QB, even though this sounds like a conjugation fallacy. Both moves are required if we want to replace Brandstater, however.
no goats, no glory.
Very much agreed on the QB take
I wouldn’t cry if we took LeFevour in the third, but I don’t see a need at QB either. Signs seem to point to Brandstater moving to the # spot, well, at least 50/50 in my eyes.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
me too
It will tell much of Bstaters progress what we do here. Maybe after this last year he could be a #2?
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 2, 2010 2:44 AM MST up reply actions
late QB
I like the ‘draft a QB late’ idea but I worry about our roster numbers vis-a-vis the depth at QB. We would be drafting him — IMO — for a PS position since we still need to add a 4th QB (or else keep Simms) in order to be adequately covered as far as experience. Drafting a QB — whether late or early — inevitably puts him in competition with Brandstater.
The choice to draft a QB is a choice to replace Brandstater. And what I saw of him in preseason leads me to believe he’s worth developing. This is one of those instances where a draftee might lead to wastage. We employed one solution last year by drafting Brandstater and drafting a QB in this draft would interfere with that solution. I can’t completely dismiss the idea since a new draftee might be better, but it’s questionable whether our roster couldn’t be better helped by using the draft pick where we have an opening. I don’t dismiss the idea of drafting a QB late because it’s an important position, but the problem appears to have the parameters I’ve described.
no goats, no glory.
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