The Brady Quinn Acquisition - You Like the Move??
Let me know Broncos Country - I think it was a low-risk, high reward move. What do you think??
2 recs |
342 comments
|
Comments
Voted Yes
I dont know Quinn well enough yet, but Hillis wasnt going to be used, and for a 6th round pick next year and conditional in 2012, it’s a great gamble.
If it turns out great, awesome! If not, we didnt waste much.
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
I do think they gave up a little much.
But Hillis making the Broncos team was questionable. Quinn much better backup than Simms and can give Orton a little challenge in 2011.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Oops
Didn’t realize it was a 2011 6th round pick and the conditional pick is a low round too. So it was a fair trade. By the way I voted yes.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
i want to know why you would vote no to this.
Getting a Qb for a backup fullback/running back and a few mid round draft picks is a steal. Even if he is just a backup.
Not having a good backup costed us 2 games last year.
But then we would have had to negotiate a contract with him and beat out other teams
Without compensation, half of all NFL teams would have wanted him for upside/backup role. The salary would have likely increased in a bidding war.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Doubtful, he is getting first round money as it stands
I doubt any teams would be willing to waste first round ,omey on someone who couldn’t beat out the likes of Derek Anderson, who remains unsigned.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
I like how everyone just kills Anderson all the time, didn’t the guy make the pro-bowl a few years ago? I think it’s fair to say that both Quinn and Anderson were held back by the quagmire that is the Browns organization over the years.
+1
This situation isn’t much different than Orton’s in Chi-Town. The Browns are no better developing QB’s than the Bears. Look at what we did with Orton, he’s already worth a 2nd round pick (or there about), after only a year in Denver. Look what they did with Cutler, his value is already half of what they gave us for him.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
The Browns have ruined everyone from Couch to Holcomb...
…and beyond.
At worst, Quinn is better than Simms. At best, McD can build him up.
Good call.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Mar 14, 2010 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Except we lost Hillis
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
OH GOD.
HOW EVER WILL WE REPLACE 54 RUSHING YARDS.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 14, 2010 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right!
He never did anything else for the Denver Broncos, and he never displayed any talent or skills! Clever!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Hahahaa
He certainly didn’t do a whole hell of a lot else last season. But hey, it’s 08 that matters, right?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 14, 2010 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
is it 09 that matters?
Or ‘10? He’s gone, so it’s a moot point, but a young back doesn’t go from talented one season to utterly talentless the next. I just love how people want to beat up a guy who did so some good things…and injure himself while giving maximum effort to make a good play…for the team we all love. Why is it suddenly cool to bag on guys on our side?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Hahahaha.
Seriously? Are you kidding me right now?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 16, 2010 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Quinn is better than Simms based on what exactly???
This was a bad trade. Dumb.
by Gristle McThornbody on Mar 15, 2010 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
We basically got him for a song, though.
Trading a FB who couldn’t beat out a linebacker at the position or trading a RB who couldn’t beat out LaMont Jordan? We gave up a sixth rounder and a conditional pick?
That is peanuts compared to what the Browns gave up. This guy is a former first round pick. He was surrounded by a terrible group of receivers and a terrible group of tight ends. Not to mention that is offensive line wasn’t very good.
Brady, at worst, is going to be a young backup that we aren’t paying very much, which will allow for us to get rid of him with very little contractual backlash, if he doesn’t work out very well for us.
At best, we just got a good, young, “franchise” quarterback for two late round picks and a “fourth on the depth chart” running back who rode pine all season. As much as I love Hillis, I think that the aura surrounding him was much better than the player that he actually was.
I don’t see how this was a “dumb” trade.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 15, 2010 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions
If BQ isn't any better than Simms,
At least he’s 1.8 million cheaper. I have no idea if he’ll improve or not, but that question had been solved with Simms.
It all starts with the lines
Did you see the game that Simms came in for us?
It was so bad, our injured QB had to come back on the field.
At least Quinn is a project player (and cheaper).
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Mar 18, 2010 2:49 AM MDT up reply actions
KO
Orton progressed in Chicago after receiving a chance to start. The big difference between his time there and Denver is one Brandon Marshall. If he gets traded or signs and ultimately leaves, you’ll see his numbers drop back to his career averages.
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
the big difference
is that McD is a former QB coach and OC and Lovie Smith is a former DC.
Not to discount the talent of B Marsh — I’m on record as supporting him through all his BS and wanting him to stay. It would be a crime to lose him after all the time and patience we’ve invested in his maturation as a player and a man. But in fairness, if you’re going to compare last years’ Broncos to Orton’s stint at Chicago, there’s a lot more to the picture than B Marsh.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on Mar 14, 2010 9:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe
it’s a little unfair, but not totally off the mark. Orton has a bonafide #1 WR, in which he dumped off passes (no more than 5-7 yards most of the time)- the degree of difficulty not very high. McD is obviously a much better offensive mind than Turner and Pep Hamilton, but certainly they did a decent job with him playing behind of sketchy line, average at best running game, and unheralded WRs. We’re talking about a difference of about 6 points on his QB rating from ‘08 to ’09. I’m still saying it’s mostly because of BM, a little of the offensive line play and McD’s tutoring.
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
Did you not see
The 400 yard game they had at the end of the season without Marshall on the field? Did you notice any where along the line that Orton’s percentage of completions, yards and yard per attempt by Orton were all better stats than the qb who was here previously?
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
No I didn't notice them
because it’s simply untrue.
KO ’09- 3,802 yards, 62.1%, 11.3 y/c, 7.0 y/a.
JC ’08- 4,526 yards, 62.3%, 11.8 y/c, 7.3 y/a.
Actually, he didn’t beat him in one single category. Gee, I wonder where you pull your stats from? Biasedfootballfanstats.com maybe?
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
I was talling about this season
Not 08. The truth is just that. This season Orton and Cutler both played wih lines that struggled and defenses that gave up way too many points.
Orton, of the so called noodle arm threw for better percentage, more yards per attempt and more total yards than rocket arm.
The only category that cutler beat him in was in interceptions.
The Broncos line was nothiing likeit was in 08 becasue of injury and backups that were a dramtic drop in talent, especially at right tackle and in the cener of the line.
so you can keep your cheap insults to yourself and ignore your man love for Cutler long enough to think abaout what you say.
And again, over 400 yeards of offense WITHOUT Marshall. And the Broncos didnt have two games against the lions amont others on their schedule.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
Comparing apples to apples, that's all.
431 yards without BM against the Chiefs, in which the team was trailing, by a lot.
Lions? Seriously? How about four games against the Raiders and Chiefs? Losing both at home. At least the Bears won against teams they should’ve beat. Stats aside for ‘09, you can keep your average QB, Ayers, and an unknown. We’ll keep a guy with upside and Johnny Knox. Can’t wait to see your offense without BM next season.
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
Yes, true
Quinn couldn’t beat out Anderson. But it’s equally true that Hillis couldn’t beat out LaMont freakin Jordon. You can’t crush one guy for not beating out who you think he should’ve, while excusing the other for that very same thing.
Can’t have it both ways, amigo.
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 15, 2010 7:54 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm with you Chuk
Even though I hate most Golden Domers – I don’t have too much against Quinn. He’s an upgrade over Simms – and for the price of a future 6th rounder (I think Hillis was going to get cut sooner or later so I don’t count him) you get a QB that you at least think can fit your system.
Still, we could have got him for nothing and, more importantly, have given him a less expensive contract in doing so. Right now – for the money – he’s only a slight upgrade over our previous overpaid backup.
On a separate note – is this not a ringing endorsement for Orton? Yes Quinn has some untapped potential – but he isn’t a big time move like trying to go after McNabb or even grabbing a QB in the early rounds. I think McD is really warming to Orton. The one person this hurts is Brandstater.
The next season easily belongs to Orton. He earned it.
With what he had to endure physically, starting in a new place in a new system, simply showing potential was a feat in itself. Though Quinn was raised in a similar system, Kyle has a full year’s experience with the team. He’s da guy right now. His performance this season will tell the tale as to how it works out. If all 3 QBs end up looking good, they have great trade bait for other talent.
The bottom line is, having too much talent at QB is a luxury well worth what was given in trade.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
by jayrockstone on Mar 14, 2010 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions
+1
To both jayrockstone and Vortex7
Orton has played and improved enough for the starting job and will continue to improve. I cannot stand Notre Dame and Brady Quinn, but I do see the value in this; not only does this give the team more attention (though I don’t want to listen to people talk about more QB controversy), but he does make a solid back up. Though he was inconsistent, there we some good games that I watched him play. It could be a very solid move, I just wanna see my boy KO take them to the playoffs!
I doubt that Quinn
will be given the backup role. If Brandstater has talent and a year inthe system already I think he will be more than able to battle for the #2 spot. Im amazed at how easily you all just write him off in every qb discussion thread.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
Maybe because Six round picks almost never work out.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 15, 2010 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions
The Operative word being
“almost”.. Enough have and now that Simms is gone it should tell you something about this one. Unless you have been present at practices and have superior ability in aquirng and developiing talent Id say it will soon be stated taht no one i guaranteed any position this year.
Orton will be the starter until he is beaten out for the position and the back up will be the winner between Quinn and Brandstater. We all saw last year just how much experience played into Ortons development. How many years did Brady ride the bench learing it and Cassell too for that matter. it will make this a competitiv camp.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
Just
Cause Hillis was a totally Team Player. He was one of the few bright spots of the 08 season. If he tears it up in Cleveland I’ll be both pissed, and happy for him.
by WYO(MF)BRONCOBOY on Mar 14, 2010 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This line of thinking is driving me nuts.
He was a bright spot two seasons ago so it was a bad trade giving him up and two future mid-late round picks that aren’t even in the same year for a QB with plenty of potential at a position that needed to be upgraded.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 14, 2010 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Why I voted No
This trade is just more evidence of how clueless McD actually is. People keep yacking about potential (ha!) and the QB of the future (/facepalm.) OK. Fine. Name me one single great QB that flourished at his second team. I know…that would be Jake Plummer, right? All the great QB of today have been with one team (Rivers, Brady, Manning). The one exception might be Bledsloe but that is by no means the normal situation. One can talk about “the bad situation in Cleavland” but I hear that about Oakland too. The most basic fact is that Quinn didn’t make that situation better. He not starting QB material. Anyone who thinks Quinn can be a starting QB lives in a dream world where Orton=GOD.
So fine, the got a fair deal. Shiat for shit. That’s what the Broncos have come down too. He’s worth exactly what we paid for him. We have so many more important needs than trading for shit. What a waste of time, effort, and focus. Our coach is just like Alice. He sees the pill that says, “Bite Me” and he does. And down the hole the Broncos go. Only it aint gonna be any Wonderland.
"Name me one single great QB that flourished at his second team."
“Name me one single great QB that flourished at his second team.”
1. John Elway
2. Brett Favre
This is truly hilarious.
Damned if you do, damned if don’t, I guess. You’re probably mad that Denver is signing ‘old’ FA’s, too— when everybody knows younger, sure fire all-pros are better…
Did you think this one through at all, or do you go straight to apocalyptic as a matter of course these days?
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 14, 2010 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions
"Name me one single great QB that flourished at his second team."
Fran Tarkenton
Steve Young
Kurt Warner
Drew Brees
Joe Montana (chefs)
by papasteven on Mar 14, 2010 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm surprised 20% think it was a bad deal
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Surprising 82% think its a good deal
Have any of you Quinn fans seen him win a big game, college or pro?
by DavidM on Mar 14, 2010 6:08 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look, we’re not saying he’s the savior of the franchise, or the next John Elway. We’re saying we gave up practically nothing for a guy drafted in the top-5 only a few years ago. At worst, he fails and we lose a draft pick and got rid of a player our team didn’t want anyways. At best, our head coach, who happens to be one of the best at coaching QB’s, turns him into a future starter.
There is no real downside to this move, think about it a little more, and you should see it.
he wasn't in the top 5
he was the 19th or 23rd or something (too lazy to google lol). I remember cuz the Browns picked up Joe Thomas at #3 overall in the same draft, and the draftniks were giving them major props for getting them both in the same draft. And I remember how nervous he was after the Browns passed on him and he slid, slid, slid…
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on Mar 14, 2010 7:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Absolutely, I totally agree with all your other points. Just thought I’d catch that detail for ya in case you need to restate it elsewhere. Got yer back, buddy! ; )
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on Mar 14, 2010 9:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Can we add a choice for "Ambivalent"?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
by ncm42 on Mar 14, 2010 4:26 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Here's why I voted no
Quinn is a marginal QB who couldn’t beat out Derek Anderson who they cut, we could of had Quinn for nothing because the Browns were likely going to cut Quinn after the draft anyways. Quinn is not an upgrade over Orton and I think that is basically made us pay more money for a marginal backup.
I love Hillis and what has annoyed me is that McDaniels has not found a way to use his talents, good coaches find ways to adapt their systems to the talents of the players. I think Hillis is going to excel under a west coast system and be a monster. I understand that there is limited risk in low round picks, but again, we picked up Terrell Davis in the 6th, Tom Nalen was in the 6th, Shannon Sharpe in the 7th. Every time you reduce the roll of the dice you reduce the potential for getting a good or great player.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Mar 14, 2010 4:27 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
We Did Get Quinn For Nothing
because Hillis wouldn’t have been a factor anyway
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Hillis will excel in the WCO
Because he is a WC player. The Broncos aren’t a WC team anymore. That is why Hillis and Scheffler suffered. The TE isn’t used heavily in this offense, either, and it is going to be even less in 2010.
As for the price paid, Your argument is valid. The Broncos have had some success late in the draft. This move is to improve the QB situation as a whole. Brady Quinn is a better QB than Chris Simms. He has 1st/2nd round talent. Can the Broncos get that talent out of him? That is the question.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Follow MHR on Twitter!
Follow MHR on Facebook!
XBox Gamertag - MileHighReport
Playstation Gamertag - TheSportsGuru
by John Bena on Mar 14, 2010 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't believe players are "system" players
Why could they not use Hillis similar to Kevin Faulk, I think that is more of a coach not being able to adjust his system for the players he has. Sheffler may not be a “blocking” TE, but if SD and Indy can use guys like Dallas Clark and Gates, we should be able to find a way to use Sheff, he seemed to do fine in the game at SD. Both of these guys are talented, I hate giving up on talent because the coach won’t adjust the system.
Quinn is better than Simms, but I can’t believe that the idea was to have Quinn be the back-up, you know Quinn thinks he is a starter and will be expecting to start. The other issue will be when Orton does struggle you now will have a gaggle of people wanting Quinn in (just like they did last year for Simms to start after Orton struggled), what happens if they get their wish and Quinn reverts to the QB we all saw in Cleveland.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Mar 14, 2010 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really? Systems don’t matter then? Just draft guys who are good and fast and plug them in where they’re supposed to go and everything will work?
Every player has strengths and weaknesses, certain traits that blend their talents with one teams system in a better way than they would in another teams’ system. Faulk is more versatile in this system than Hillis is, hence, he’s gone. Our system values blocking in a tight end over pass-catching ability, which is why Scheff didn’t see a ton of action last year, and might not be in our future plans. Every team in the league runs a system on both sides of the ball for a reason.
Really? Systems don’t matter then? Just draft guys who are good and fast and plug them in where they’re supposed to go and everything will work?
I believe this is called the “Al Davis School of Coaching.”
Oh, This is bound to be good
You can't, but you thought that You could
by jello44 on Mar 14, 2010 5:13 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK then, was Elway a "system" QB
Was TD a “system” back, yes, different players fit different systems but at a certain point players have talent and can play in any system. Would Jerry Rice or Moss be considered system players? Or does a smart coach adjust the system to fit the players strengths. New England was not a vertical passing team until Moss got there, they adjusted their system to fit the personnel, they were a running team before that. Great coaches adjust a system to fit the players, the west coast offense didn’t have a shotgun until Mike Shanahan used it with Elway and Young, he adjusted the system to fit the strengths of his players.
And I can’t believe that you seriously would say Hillis is not as versitile as Faulk, whatcould he not do that Faulk does, he catches, he runs, and he can pass protect.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
He fumbles on kickoff returns, for one...
Oh, and he commits stupid special teams penalties. I don’t think Kevin Faulk does either of those. Oh, and Faulk doesn’t get 54 yards all year either.
Other players that were relatively low on McD’s totem pole worked their way out of it, why couldn’t Hillis? i’m not putting all the blame on Hillis’ shoulders, but if he was honestly the best choice for any situation, I highly doubt McDaniels would let his own pride get in the way of making a decision that could affect the outcome of a game.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
Agreed, but it’s also not even a pride issue. When McD first got here, he was excited about what Hillis could do, we saw that in an interview he gave during training camp. He figured to be a big part of our offense moving forward. But, like you said, poor performances plagued by untimely fumbles made sure his playing time dwindled. Alas, it’s less of a pride issue than it is a “putting in the guys who can perform issue”.
Hillis lost out on carries to the monster that is Lamont Jordan last year. I don’t feel the need to cry over losing that player for a talented and still young first-round talent that fits our scheme.
Faulk's NEVER had a fumble? Or a penalty? WOW...
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
And I agree that Coach McD wouldn't let pride get in the way of winning.
But it also didn’t sit right with me when he made jokes at Hillis’s expense in a press conference during a week late in the season. Don’t see the humor in a coach using a press conference to laugh at a player’s (and team’s) failure to convert a big play.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Not at this second, but I'll look for them.
It was after a late season loss…maybe the Raiders game?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Maybe I'm going crazy.
I can’t find it. It was after either the Raiders or Eagles game, when someone asked about the team and Knowshon not getting the ball in the end zone. I’m still looking….
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Transcendent players can play in any system. But the majority of the guys in this league are not transcendent players, they have more weaknesses than the elite players. Those weaknesses, combined with their strengths, are what make them more valuable in one kind of system than another. I am astounded that you are even debating the validity of “systems” in the NFL, you’re sailing that ship all by your lonesome.
Kevin Faulk has been in the league and had far more success than Hillis, he has won championships. Hillis filled in admirably for a couple games at the end of the season when the starters went down, and followed that performance by riding the pine for a year. This isn’t even a “versatility” argument, the argument should be that you are completely overvaluing a fan favorite player. Take off the blinders, Hillis just wasn’t that good. The rumblin’ redneck was fun to watch, but if he was anywhere near as good as you seem to think he is, he would have received some actual playing time last year.
Football
Has evolved since then.
That was over ten years ago. Defenses are far more complex. Offenses are far more complex.
The game has become more about match ups and packages than just raw athleticism vs raw athleticism. You have to have smart players who FIT into certain roles.
As much as I hate to say it things are different now.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
Hillis
Completely failed when it mattered in 2009. Good luck to him. But I am not losing any sleep over losing him.
the more you practice the luckier you get
Exactly.
Why could they not use Hillis similar to Kevin Faulk, I think that is more of a coach not being able to adjust his system for the players he has
I used to be McDaniles supporter. No longer.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Its like saying...
…why can’t you use Brandon Stokely like Shannon Sharpe. Different skill set. Different body type. Whole different universe all together.
That’s just a pure reach.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 14, 2010 6:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Because we got rid of Hillis?
Yes, Hillis was fun to watch, we loved it when he ran in 2008. In 2009 he fumbled the ball and had such poor performances that he fell behind Lamont Jordan on the depth chart. For some reason, I’m not too upset with the trade.
And if you’re going to turn on the coach for making a trade that makes complete sense and is nothing short of a steal, feel free to hate on. Would you prefer if McD went the alternate route? He could have continued playing Hillis because we loved his effort and running style while he racked up fumbles and screwed the team over. That would have been super fun!
Seriously?
I don’t believe players are “system” players
Well, that’s interesting. Most of pro football does. Just saying…
It all starts with the lines
Counting..
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11…
Sorry, was just counting all the assumptions in your post.
Please, continue…
Low Round Draft Picks are Still Draft Picks
+1 on your second paragraph. Low round draft picks can turn up gold so to say we gave up nothing is not accurate. I too wish McD would have found a role for Hillis. For whatever reason though, McD didn’t “like” what Hillis offered. Like one commenter said, maybe Hillis was going to be cut anyway. May as well use him as trade bait then, right? So, I like the deal if Quinn is at least a stable backup. And the thing is the potential upside cannot be ignored. Here’s a chance for McD to prove that he’s a bona fide ‘quarterback whisperer’!
????
We gave the 6th pick in a future draft and a 7th round over sized hybrid RB/FB in Hillis who was not going to play and we got a former 1st round pick with all the tools and tremendous potential who played for the Cleveland Morons. Name a QB who succeeded in Cleveland after Bernie Cosar? And you do not like the deal?
What does it matter that he was a former 1st round pick
So was Joey Harrington, David Carr, and Jamarcus Russell, I see no one clamoring to get those players here. He got picked in the 1st round because of Notre Dame hype, had he played at some no name school he would of been a 3rd rounder at best.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Mar 14, 2010 6:25 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Geez, you are absolutely killing me in this thread Broncoman.
You’re right, if Kurt Warner played for Ohio State instead of Northern Iowa, he probably would have been drafted.
But guess what? The best talent in the high school football pool usually go to the best schools, get the best coaching, and play against the best competition. Additionally, they usually get drafted higher than the small school guys. I am by no means I Quinn fanboy, and I openly dislike Notre Dame, but the fact that you are upset about this trade is disconcerting.
Here it is:
We gave up nothing, and got a talented player with some starting experience who is still young, who played in a crappy organization that is incapable of coaching up a quarterback, and brought him to one of the best QB coaches in the industry.
Where is the downside? I know you’ll probably make up an answer, but there isn’t one.
Interesting
You crush Quinn for not beating out Anderson, but entirely let Hillis off that hook, who couldn’t beat out LaMont Jordon.
Can’t have it both ways- either Quinn (AND Hillis) suck because they couldn’t beat out lesser players, or they don’t- their coaches should’ve found ways to better use their talents.
BTW, it’s “could’ve”, not “could of”.
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 15, 2010 8:00 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your take is right on the money.
The whole “Hillis is a WCO type of player….he can only thrive in such a system….” is absolute bunk. As you point out, good coaches and systems can make ways to use such players.
If Hillis now goes on to play like a beast for the Browns McD is going to look like a fool. If he doesn’t, though, and he falters and Quinn is the next Tom Brady, then I will apologize.
Hearing about this trade for the first time today, it’s pretty disheartening. Quinn’s awful, pure and simple. And as you pointed out, a 6th round pick isn’t some automatic crap pick. This was a dumb trade.
by Gristle McThornbody on Mar 15, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Will you also apologize if both players do well?
I’m not sure how you can call anyone that’s been saddled with playing for the terrible organization that is the Browns, “awful” esp. a QB. I think the last decent QB that played for them was Bernie Kosar in the mid to late 80s. Since then, it’s been a QB graveyard.
Quinn may or may not work out, but judging the guy from his experience with that truly awful franchise is a bit hasty. I’d say most agree from the vast majority of the comments posted here.
Bottom line is that in the NFL, QBs are about 10x more valuable than a RB/FB tweener, so imo it’s far from “a dumb trade”.
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 16, 2010 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Does Quinn still have all his endorsment deals?
We could actually have an athlete here in Denver that appears in something more substantial that a black jack pizza or burt chevy commercial.
303
Brady Quinn – 23/35, 239 yards, 2TDs, 0 INTs Vs. Denver Broncos, Week 10, 2008, in Quinn’s first NFL start.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Follow MHR on Twitter!
Follow MHR on Facebook!
XBox Gamertag - MileHighReport
Playstation Gamertag - TheSportsGuru
Who won?
And that was against the league’s worst defense. I don’t think he completed a pass farther than 15 yards either.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Mar 14, 2010 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
He also had some weapons...
Winslow, Edwards were traded…I’m not saying the guy is going to be a star, but he is better than Simms…
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Follow MHR on Twitter!
Follow MHR on Facebook!
XBox Gamertag - MileHighReport
Playstation Gamertag - TheSportsGuru
Saying Quinn is better than Simms...
… is like saying Quinn is better than me at QB.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Chris, is that you?
;)
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
He did well in his debut against the 30th ranked defense
by DavidM on Mar 14, 2010 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
We at least got a decent right handed backup for pocket change.
Even if all he does is sit on the bench he’s worth it. Having a solid backup QB is something few people ever think about. I’m thinking about that Washington game last year…shudder
Simms is a good guy but he is a liability on the field. I think Quinn is an upgrade.
And who knows. Maybe he’ll turn a corner while he’s here and end up being more than we bargained for. Either way we got this kid for a bargain.
A change of zip code can do wonders for a guy’s career. Let’s see if he can take advantage of it. Should make for an interesting camp.
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Again… yikes.
Who won? Who won? The better team won, that’s who. To expect a rookie QB in his first start to come in and lead an inferior team over another is irrational.
by aLuffabo on Mar 14, 2010 6:49 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Big deal. Yeah, Quinn picked Denver apart but that just shows how crappy Denver was that night.
One decent statistical game does not a career make….
by Gristle McThornbody on Mar 15, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
You also got me in the trade haha. I’m a Quinn follower so go broncos!
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 14, 2010 4:33 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Welcome!
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Follow MHR on Twitter!
Follow MHR on Facebook!
XBox Gamertag - MileHighReport
Playstation Gamertag - TheSportsGuru
Thank you. Can you fill me in on any quick things i need to know?
I really like following the draft so i can contribute some of that knowledge here.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 14, 2010 4:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Welcome Shady!
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
I Accept
this if it means Chris Simms gets kicked to the curb. Quinn HAS to be a better option than Simms to back up KO, you cannot do worse than Phil’s son.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 4:33 PM MDT reply actions
well i voted no
not a fan of prettyboys when it comes to football players on my team, and my first reaction was Brady Quinn ? wtf !
but after a little consideration, this looks like a good deal for Denver. looking forward to MHRadio tonight as i may need further convincing…
oh and hello to everyone who reads this ! work has been really busy haven’t had much time for the Broncos this year as of yet. what else have i missed i wonder…
by Jenna Talia on Mar 14, 2010 4:49 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
oh and i hate daylight savings
spring forward my rear end
someone stole an hour from me !
by Jenna Talia on Mar 14, 2010 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Move To Arizona
and you’ll never change your clock again. The funny thing on my Mormon mission is I lived in both Tucson and El Paso so I had to change from time to time but I never left the Mountain Time Zone theoretically.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Tucson to El Paso
is six hours one way. It’s like going from Denver to Santa Fe, I’d imagine, or perhaps Albuquerque. I’ve not traveled that section of the 25 before
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, but it also ***** up the time for all of the sports and everything on Cable
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad.
Welcome back
I miss seeing your name and shaking my head in amusement.
by T.Dot_Bronco on Mar 14, 2010 5:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Wow
500 unique votes in like 45 minutes. Impressive.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Ambivalent
I like the system match and the idea that maybe McD can milk more potential out of Quinn than the Browns could.
I hate the potential QB controversy…especially with Denver’s increasingly shrill and reactionary fan base.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 14, 2010 4:59 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
As for the Shrill and Reactionary
how many of those tools are loyal fans like say, you and I? In other words, who cares what they think. Right now, McX and Mr. Bowlen need true fans like we are. We’re the people that really matter!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 5:04 PM MDT up reply actions
True...
…but controversies— no wonder how silly— can roll off onto a team and become distracting. I don’t relish the idea of Orton being booed at freakin’ training camp again, or kids getting their 15 minutes of fame holding ‘Orton hears a Boo’ signs.
I support the deal, but I’d rather a new QB be decisively better, or worse, than the existing guy. A lot of grey area at the QB position can turn things ugly in short order. There’s a bunch of entrenched Orton haters out there that are going to get their danders up again— and not only are the reasonable fans going to have to abide it, but it can potentially cause problems in the locker room.
You also have the ‘Plummer Effect’ as a real possibility. There was no doubt that Plummer played looking over his shoulder at Cutler, and the whole team suffered for it. Here’s hoping that Orton is mentally tougher in that regard— or that one or the other has a decisively better training camp.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 14, 2010 5:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Orton is Mentally Tougher than Plummer
Neckbeard>>>>>>>>Porn stache
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions
I didn’t think about that. I’m sure that if we checked the records, we’d find that lots of the people yelling about acquiring Quinn now, are the same people who yelled when the Broncos didn’t get him in the Cutler deal. I can only assume the team tunes this nonsense out. But it’s still painful to see the fan base get so reactionary. Sometimes, I think I could convince that that the earth has been plunged into an eternal darkness — because it’s 11pm.
This is what I e-mailed to other staff after the move....
1) For whatever reason, Hillis wasn’t going to be used in Denver.
2) Simms is an awful back-up.
3) Quinn was either a bust for CLE because he wasn’t terribly good, or because he was behind a bad OL. This point is pretty debatable, but I think a lot of good names have gone to CLE, only to get ruined for whatever reason. (It could be the OL, QB coaching, whatever).
4) At the very least (as John points out), Quinn will be an improvement at back-up QB. At best, given the McD background for bringing up QBs (and Quinn’s background before he went to CLE), there is a shot of Quinn being built up.
5) In sum, we’re giving up a risky 6th round pick to shore ourselves up at back-up QB. Hillis, rightly or wrongly, wasn’t going to be playing in Denver this year.
I like the move.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
What intrigues me Steve is that, I wonder if McCoy pleaded the case of Jake Delhome to McD?
It seems like Delhomes play took a nose dive ever since McCoy left…What say you?
There could be something to that.
A lot about a QB’s play can ride on his position coach. There are examples of QB’s making complete changes (good to bad and vice versa). Look at Cassel.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Mar 14, 2010 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, I will miss Peyton's heart,
but I am glad he will get a chance to shine as part of something he can fit in.
Downside: No more rumblin’ redneck.
No more of that great mile high salute enthusiasm.
HillisRanUOver will have to change his name.
Upside: Lots. See posts.
I’m not upset about this. On and ever upward, forward, never backward.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Mar 14, 2010 5:00 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
No more Hillis/ChuckNorris jokes......
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 15, 2010 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Gah! I forgot about this one.
McD is a D-bag.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
DISCLAIMER:
The above post was a joke. Not to be taken seriously.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Man I'm bummed
If Hillis tears it up Cleve, I’ll be happy for him. But he was a ton a fun to watch.dammit
by WYO(MF)BRONCOBOY on Mar 14, 2010 5:00 PM MDT reply actions
the only running back to tear it up Cleveland
is Jerome Harrison. That dude’s a BEAST. I loved watching him carve the Steelers last year.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
ABSOLUTELY A PHENOMENAL ACQUISITION
For next to nothing we got a QB that has all the tools and with the tutelage of McGenius he can develop into a great QB for the Broncos.
Now wouldn't it be funny if McD turned both Orton and Quinn into Super Bowl winning QB's.
Nah…It can’t happen…can it?
I do still wish HCMcD would have given Hillis more opportunities to show what he can do. Oh well! I guess it’s too late now. Hopefully, Quinn can finally live up to his hype here in Denver. If he becomes a legitimate starting QB (or even a serviceable backup) then the trade was worth it.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
I liked Hillis, but it was painfully obvious he wasn’t going to be used here. Hopefully, the Browns can use his talent to its potential.
That being said I think it is a good trade, because I am more confident with Quinn as a backup than Simms.
Oh, This is bound to be good
You can't, but you thought that You could
I voted YES
the only thing that worrys me is Quinn spends to much time as a body builder, that has to be affecting him. The Brownies traded all of there receivers last year, so he or Anderson didnt have anyone to throw too.
live and die blue and orange
jerry you might have hit on something here!
Quinn spends to much time as a body builder, that has to be affecting him.
Body building is a no-no in his position where flexibility is so crucial. Sculpting the body woud leave muscle tightening effects…What was Cleveland thinking letting him do that? McD and Tuten won’t have it and he better understand that! LOL…
I was suprised when I saw this most recent pic of Cutler

He must have put in some serious work this off season.
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
by Choochoobonewagon on Mar 14, 2010 6:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Why's that dude so dark
How much tanning does one need to do to look like that? I suppose he could have taken a bath in wood stain.
by T.Dot_Bronco on Mar 14, 2010 6:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Quite a bit of that is oil...
That crap is nasty. I met this guy a couple years ago, he’s a well known body builder as well. He’s one of the Germans from Beerfest too. He told me a little about that stuff…they use this nasty oil crap to highlight their muscle definition,

John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
People That Are Diabetic
often take HGH, just saying….
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Maurice Jones-Drew
mocking this move on Twitter. First of all, who cares? Second of all, why should I value MJD’s opinion on acquisitions. It isn’t like he’s a Cris Collinsworth or Tom Jackson-type analyst.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 5:10 PM MDT reply actions
what's his twitter?
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
Let's See
MJD’s Twitter is Jones_Drew32.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions
What?
Why would he care at all? Weird.
Here’s an idea, MJD- worry about the sucky team you’re currently a part of. Just a thought.
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 15, 2010 8:06 AM MDT up reply actions
MJD has a vested interest in the Broncos.
He has done the MH salute almost as much as Sharpe. Maybe he’s a wanna-be.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Great Move!!!!
Picking up Brady Quinn who knowns Weis’s System which is similar to McDaniels is a great move. Quinn in college was a excellent QB but anybody who goes to Cleveland with that talent would STRUGGLE.
Great move with little risk!!!
Kind of how Kyle struggled (or didn't) in Chicago, huh...
Name me one great quarterback who has ever played in Cleveland in modern era…I love the move! McD isn’t done yet either…Just like the famous qoute: “I’m just gettin’ warmed up here”! Sea of Love…Al Pacino.
Does Bernie Kosar
count or is that era “old school” to you? Vinny Testaverde was all right in Cleveland but after going to the Ravens and Jets, he really took flight, no pun intended.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 10:09 PM MDT up reply actions
*
moments ago as I’m tweeting (BroncosItaly is my gloss in case anyone wants to follow), MJD offers an apology. Now, THIS is power!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 5:11 PM MDT reply actions
Still don't understand why he'd comment at all
Worry about your own team, buddy
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 15, 2010 8:08 AM MDT up reply actions
This is a great trade
people underestimate having a chip on your shoulder. I am glad to see a strong portion of this Broncos community happy about the trade. Hillis was one of my favorite Broncos, but he was ineffective with us last year. I will miss him, and I hope he does well with the Browns.
This is a superb trade for Denver, especially because they don’t have to surrender any picks in THIS draft. That was a key for McX in this whole situation. Quinn is a better prospect at this point than any QB in this draft, save for maybe Sam Bradford (yes, even Tebow).
While I am sad to see the Tebow-to-Denver option ripped to shreds, I think this move will be just as effective. Quinn is a good leader and locker room guy, he is familiar with our system, and will get far better coaching here than he ever did in Cleveland. This is a brilliant move by the Broncos’ front office.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
I have a feeling if Quinn had come out this year he wouldn't be picked until the 4th round
Quinn was a severly over-rated prospect coming out of Notre Dame, I like Bradford, Claussen, McCoy, LeFebevre, Pike and even Teabow over Quinn.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Mar 14, 2010 6:31 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great comment Sayre!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Is It Possible
to get the big reward bereft of the big risk? As a devout member of Bronco Country, I say YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 5:13 PM MDT reply actions
I don't understand Mike Holgren's Phylosophy here.
Derek Anderson walks away in a huff, saying Cleveland fans “don’t deserve a winner” following his release.
Holgren signs Seneca Wallace? and Jake INT Delhome? Has the guy lost his mind? Anyway this is a good move for the Broncos and for Brady Quinn. He is yet young, being only 25 he has plenty of time to wash away any bad habits the Browns may have inflicted upon him. He’ll make an execellent back up for Orton. Since we don’t really know Kyle’s future on the team, you never know in this league what’s going to happen.. Good move McD/X
Not sure about this.
I do think Quinn will be an improvement over Simms, but I also think a blind one armed monkey would have been better too. I really liked Hillis and although he is more of a WC type player, I always have thought his versatility could have been used more. But whatever, time to move forward from this. I do like the low risk with this move as well, so I vote Yes.
Good luck Hillis! You will be missed.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make a new one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Mar 14, 2010 5:14 PM MDT reply actions
Holmgren
is a genius but I think his handling of the QB situation smocks of arrogance. Delhomme is NOT a better option anyway you slice it. I’ve visited the Browns blog and the denizens thereof DESPISE that move. What’s up with legendary coaches named Mike being arrogant? Holmgren bringing in Jake the Turnover Machine and Shanny rolling the bones on Mo Clarett?
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 5:15 PM MDT reply actions
Didn't he have like 12 INT's in one game? Maybe I'm stretching it a bit, but please, the guys a bum!
That’s what they’re saying over there and I haven’t even gone over to see!!! Ha Ha ha ha ha ha…They will always be the doormat for the Steelers and Ravens! A pathetic organization from the ground up. It make you appreciate the owner we have and what he loves as well as our interests…
Amen Friend
that’s precisely why I say God Bless Mr. Bowlen! In fact, when I pray daily, I try to remember to integrate him into my prayers. He cares about the Broncos. Anyone who thinks differently should be burned at the stake, or worse, be forced to be a Faider, Queef or Super Sparkler fan.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions
it was only 5 and a fumble
but it might as well have been 12, if you account for The Stats That Don’t Lie. ; )
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on Mar 14, 2010 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Quin(n)tessential move
I have no opinion on Brady Quinn. Maybe he just misfired with Cleveland and will be as good in the NFL as he was in college, maybe not. I think Derek Anderson is overrated, but I like Hillis. Sorry to see Hillis go. But McDaniels evaluated Quinn and others before making the deal with Chicago for Orton. So maybe he liked Orton better or maybe he liked Quinn better but got a better deal for Cutler from Chicago. At least McDaniels likes what he is getting in Quinn and felt it was worth the risk. Time will tell.
Before everybody swoons too hard
It’d be foolish to rule out Denver just acquiring Quinn to dangle in front of Charlie Weis. Reunite them and give us Cassel.
I really doubts that is the case ELGee...
If McD wanted Cassel he could of had him in the Cutler affair…
This move today is one more piece in the puzzle of who we might pick or positions we will concentrate on...
Pretty much eliminates QB and DE/DG with the moves we made. If McD isn’t going with a FB position (has used Larsen and Hochstein) we might draft a RB in the mid rds.
Why is DE/DG eliminated?
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 14, 2010 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions
they are lost over there
i had to tell them they are starting over all over again. They like getting Hillis but are upset that they didnt get higher draft picks.
live and die blue and orange
It'd be a bigger deal
Quinn and Marshall for Cassel, Bowe, Derrick Johnson and a 1st or 2nd, for example.
we will not trade BMARSH to some one in our division!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
live and die blue and orange
God forbid, I would not like that...
…and get haunted for years to come :)
I like getting Quinn
I feel he is a very under-rated QB, and Browns played a huge role in trying to sabotage his career just like the Cardinal played a huge role trying to sabotage Plummer’s career, or what the Texans did to David Carr.
Quinn is a 1st to early 2nd round talent that needs a bit of grooming, and as Guru said Quinn is Orton, we won’t miss a beat when one or the other is in the game for us should something happen to Orton. Plus he is still young. Now we don’t need to worry about the QB situation for a while and Tom B. can sit and prepare himself better for the unthinkable.
With Simms our entire team had to adjust for left handed QB, even though I was impressed with Simms as well before his spleen got removed in TB.
Of course he is under rated and was under utililized in their system.
Bad quarterback coaching could have been Brady Quinn’s problem all along. Like i said, they are consideered the doormat for the Steelers and I don’t foresee that changing in the near future.
Dont like the move
I may regret this but I dont think Brady Quinn is likely to be a championship QB. So we add a mediocre QB to a group of mediocre QB’s and if Brandstater is in his 2nd year then he could be a backup….now there is a logjam and my hope of Tebow (yes I think Tebow will be a champion at the next level) or Claussen is down the drains. We needed a huge upgrade and instead look like Tampa stockpiling crap for QB’s.
yuck. I can't stand Clausen.
He screams Cutler 2.0 in every way.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
somewhat agreed
I just want a championship QB and dont see one on our roster still…..frustrating as a fan…because I do want to win a Super Bowl
Winning Super Bowls....ppffffffttt....SO overrated.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 14, 2010 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions
That's funny yallas as the MSM and analyst were saying the same thing about Drew Brees and Joe Montana at one time too...
It takes a lot more that a pretty good quarterback to win the SB. It’s takes a whole team playing on the same page, doing what they have to do to make their position the best and coaches giving them the best plays to win…That’s what wins SB’s
Whatever dude.
I’ve seen all those movies where they add a strong armed quarterback to a crappy team and then suddenly start winning games.
Why just look at the Chicago Bears…
Wait a minute. I’m starting to think that movies are a bunch of BS….LOL
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I've said it before a million times and I'll say it again...
the “super bowl mystique” that quarterbacks have does NOT come naturally. All super bowl winning quarterbacks have to work at it. No one is born with it. Not Big Ben, not Tom Brady, not even John Elway had that vibe until they won the big dance. You don’t just become a super bowl winning quarterback and you certainly aren’t just born with a ring on either. No one will suit your wants if you are expecting a super bowl winning QB in a trade like this.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
Troo Dat.
You gotta start somewhere.
Or in some cases, you have to start OVER somewhere. LOL
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:29 PM MDT up reply actions
TRUTH
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
Maybe we oould sign Trent DIlfer
Now that’s a championship QB.
by T.Dot_Bronco on Mar 14, 2010 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm just upset
That we missed out on Shaun Hill.
DAMMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT!!!!
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:43 PM MDT up reply actions
learn how to spell...they said the same thing about Steve Young
and Tebow is bigger and more athletic….you will eat your words one day
No one says he can't succeed, all jerry251 said is
that he can surely win a CFL championship… :)
The problem, then,
is that we don’t have any MHR towels. Towels fix everything.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Carl Wiliams is The Truth
I mean..duh. LOL
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Bradlee Van Pelt
was more NFL-ready than Tebow. He might get a key block in a Super Bowl if the right team drafts him
So because...
His extremely limited set of skills plays into the very bare minimum of what would be asked of him, we should burn an early draft pick on him?
If he drops to the 4th round, we can still draft him. He’s a decent flanker prospect.
He has a bad throwing motion is all
limited in what way…..setting the benchpress record as a freshman….He is strong, deceptively fast and can run. Don’t understand your thinking….not your best argument…
No....read the whole post
I watched Tebow a lot and he is impressive to me…that’s all…. AND I want a championship in Denver and dont think Orton or Quinn can lead us there…..that was my MAIN point bro
Look at the system he has run at Fla.
its for NCAA championships not NFL. The same argument will be going on with Pryor of Ohio State. The NFL is a win now league not three years down the road. Tebow is a great athlete but not an NFL QB
live and die blue and orange
So that is a point of disagreement
I am not on here but a few times a month…dont know what a troll is…. I was stating a point and the point was ridiculed with jokes…is that calling someone out for their opinion….
and is that a kind reply???
I simply said McDaniels throws short all the time and you call me a troll….probably wouldn’t do that is person.
we throw short passes because thats what our QB can do
I would call you a troll face to face
live and die blue and orange
thats fine, but what NFL team has 3 years to devope him
cleveland or he could go run the wild cat in miami
live and die blue and orange
Part timer behind Orton for 1 year...
just like he did with Leak at Florida…..and I am NOT a Gator fan….Tony Dungy said he would take Tebow with a top 10 pick…..Tebow would win in a different way…but I believe he will win
The NFL isnt diferent,
he might win someday. Look at how long Young waited to start, behind Montatna! The Broncos dont have Elawy to sit behind and learn. He needs to go some where that is wanting to win in a few years not now
live and die blue and orange
thats the point
we dont have a franchise QB and that is what chaps me….I want to compete for a world championship and I just dont like where we are….Sam Bradford is my first choice but he is likely gone…..
i felt like i was being attacked. Dont like that
Ive been a Bronco fan since 1977, I always want tem to win, like yesterday
live and die blue and orange
thats fine,
the only thing i love more than my Broncos is my daughter, by the way got a full ride to Alabama
live and die blue and orange
the cfl is not bad
look warren moon was there and he was the same type of qb
live and die blue and orange
Let's hope that Quinn can get it done
Dont thing McD made this move without thinking Quinn is the long term answer
+10000000000000
I live in ohio and he has never had a chance playing in his so called home town
live and die blue and orange
Warren Moon was the same type of qb
Since when has Tebow even remotely looked like a pure passer?
I'm just commenting
to see how many more subdivisions we can get this post tree to truncate. How low can ya go?
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Yeah but
He’s got nothing at stake- easy for him to spend other’s top 10 picks. Dungy also said that the Colts would win the SB by two scores, so yaknow, grain of salt and all.
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions
I want a championship and as true a bronco fan as you will meet
why does someone liking Tebow irritate you so much? Dont get it….
Now that, my friend, is what I have been pondering.
Such a power to divide a community!! And not all on one side; those that do like him are just as fervent. However, I myself believe the roots of the answer are too deeply rooted in non-football archetypes to really delve into on this site- we strive to have this be a retreat from those arguments where positions are so deeply entenched that neither side will budge, or even benefit, from discussion. Here I think we are best served by intospection.
I miss BVP!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
I'm Not Sure Who Tebow
can play for in the CFL, perhaps he can be a British Columbia Lion and compete for the job with former Bronco Jarrious Jackson. Anyone remember him?
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 14, 2010 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Free us up to get another RB in the draft..
One that McD actually likes.
Given time, and teaching, i think Quinn could get his mojo back.
Teabow can win a championship playing another position
sorry I wnt to Florida and they teach spelling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
live and die blue and orange
against cincinnati,
i could pick 10 people off this site who could play better D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
live and die blue and orange
It's the best thing ever.
It’s like John Elway in internet form.
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Go here and register
Register:
http://mhrradio.ning.com/main/authorization/signUp?target=http://mhrradio.ning.com/events/event/show%3Fid%3D4049193%253AEvent%253A2201%26xgi%3D3AwFbFSmGuQ8ah%26xg_source%3Dmsg_invite_event%26xgkc%3D1
Then comeback below again @ 6pm PT 9pm ET
http://mhrradio.ning.com/main/authorization/signIn?target=http://mhrradio.ning.com/events/event/show%3Fid%3D4049193%253AEvent%253A2201%26xgi%3D3AwFbFSmGuQ8ah%26xg_source%3Dmsg_invite_event%26xgkc%3D1
go to yhe main page it will link you to it
hopefully no TEABAG tag, i mean tebow
live and die blue and orange
The only bad thing is...
He played for Notre Dame.
Our criminal institutions are full of little creeps like you who do wrong things... and many of them were driven to these crimes by a horrible force called MUSIC!
by Pinchy The Lobster on Mar 14, 2010 6:01 PM MDT reply actions
Cleveland is funky...
but Hissil should get some PT for shizzil.. Seriously… Hillis deserved something better than McBungle’s one man pine outhouse!
As a backup, Quinn is oceans better than Simms already. I considered Brees wasted space in his first 3 years and even if Quinn ends up being able to win a few games as a backup I think Denver got a good deal…
Now the question is… Do we still draft a QB?
"There's one thing I want you to do for me. Win. Win!" - Rocky II
Yes!! We got that ND QB!
Ohh it’s Brady Quinn?. So it’s not Jimmy Clausen?. Hmmm?. Soooo we are probably not going to be taking a shot at drafting a QB?.. Well what did we give for him??? Ohh thats not to bad. But it’s that muscle bound freak Quinn… Is he ill tempered? Well that’s a start.
by CastorTroy on Mar 14, 2010 6:04 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
It’s curious that HCMD has barely been in Denver a year and has now brought in 4 new QBs.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
He's the new Jon Gruden!
Heh heh
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Well
Shanny only left one behind, so we had to get two right off the bat. IF you want to call Simms a QB that is…
There's a big hard sun, beating on the big people, in the big hard world.
formerly Styg-like
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 14, 2010 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Better thans Simms?!
Who’s NOT better than Simms? I was hoping for a new QB to challenge Orton and hopefully take over the job in a year or two, but it’s not Quinn. Quinn is very similar to Orton with less arm strength and arguably less football smarts. He’s got better mobility but this move is more like xeroxing a solid starting QB—where’s the gain? Well, I guess Quinn is a “hottie”??… so we’ve got that going for us…
As far as Hillis being a system guy… I guess if guys who catch the ball well, have good speed for their size and play their butts off are system guys, yeah, okay. Let’s bring that system here.
It’s not a huge deal either way but going out on a very strong, substantial, tornado-proof limb here: Cleveland wins this one. Point Holmgren.
by oxmouth on Mar 14, 2010 6:06 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Me...I'm not better than Simms
other than that……..hmmmmmmmmmmmm
by T.Dot_Bronco on Mar 14, 2010 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions
So no spleen AND a missing kidney?
"There's one thing I want you to do for me. Win. Win!" - Rocky II
by MileHighFros on Mar 14, 2010 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Hey don't talk that way...
I think you’re awesome. LOL
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I voted Yes
I love this move and I think he will do well in our system.
You guys remember the first game he ever started was against us in 2008. The Browns lost that game but Quinn played great. I think this was meant to be.
orton before the trade: “this is going to be my fourth year as a starter and I’ve never been the highest-paid qb on my team.”
He just night be the highest in 2010, even without a new contract.
Simms will be gone, and Quinn’s is so incentive-bound that he may not see much of it.
I don't know if it will work out.
Quinn has just been too inaccurate when I have seen him play most of the time, I’d stick with Orton being the starter for now.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad.
Well he certainly LOOKS like a quarterback.
LOL
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:36 PM MDT up reply actions
This is what a QB should look like
if he was a model posing for an Abercrombie ad.
A real NFL QB has a neckbeard…everybody who’s anybody knows that.
by T.Dot_Bronco on Mar 14, 2010 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions
LOL
+1
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
by TheMastermind on Mar 14, 2010 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Dude, you should write an article on this effect:
In football, prettiness shouldn’t matter — just ask Johnny Unitas. Players are evaluated solely on their ability to contribute to wins, right? Not entirely. The economists Rob Simmons, Jennifer VanGilder and I collected data on 121 N.F.L. quarterbacks who played from 1995 to 2006. We looked at the factors that determine player pay — career statistics, experience, Pro Bowl appearances and draft position — as well as the symmetry of each quarterback’s face. Sure enough, symmetry had a positive impact on a quarterback’s salary. Specifically, an increase of one standard deviation in facial symmetry led to a nearly 8 percent increase in pay.
To put this result in perspective, we found that a "good-looking" quarterback like Kerry Collins or Charlie Frye earned approximately $300,000 more per year than his stats and other pay factors would predict. Meanwhile, quarterbacks like Jeff George and Neil O’Donnell, who, sadly, were not found to have very symmetrical faces, suffered an equivalent penalty.
I can’t find the other study, but it is proven that good looking young men are more confident and popular at school— this allows them to galvanize the other players. From a young age, quarterbacks are literally groomed because of the Warren Harding effect. It’s fascinating stuff that the MHR community would love— how facial symmetry can impact a team’s performance. I love data.
by legendarywalton on Mar 14, 2010 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Great. Now my wife wants Orton hurt so she can drool over this guy.
Speaking of drool, she just ruined my computer keyboard. Da7mn8it..#
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Yeah, but if BQ is on the bench, that means that if she goes to the game and sits behind the broncos bench, she can be closer to him.
It’s so much farther away if he’s actually out there on the field.
Plus, it could be a good way to trick Mrs. Nep2n into getting a few tickets behind the Broncos bench.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 15, 2010 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions
You always have my back.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Absolutely
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 16, 2010 8:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh good...
John Clayton breaks it down for us. No word on whether this means another 3-13 year for the Broncos.
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
This frees up a mid-round pick this year
They’re not keeping 4 QBs, and it doesn’t sound like Brandstater is going anywhere. We now have an extra pick for th4e BPA approach in an awesome draft. Awesome.
Also, next year’s draft will be very weak, as a result of all the early entrants this year. A sixth-rounder in 2011 is in talent terms the equivalent of a 2010 UDFA.
The only shame here is that I like Orton the person much better. But if Quinn outperforms him, I’ll somehow learn to live with that.
If Quinn outperforms Orton we REALLY have a QB problem.
i think you’re okay. … at least on that one…
This offseasons has gone far too well.
After agreeing with maybe a quarter of McD’s decisions last year, I’m pretty ecstatic with all of them so far this offseason. We’ll wait and see how I feel after the draft, but I’m glad we won’t be wasting a pick on a QB in such a poor class. Maybe this puts those awful, awful Tebow rumors to rest.
Quinn will surprise people, and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that we may have a QB controversy if the Broncos struggle out of the gate. I hope it’s an open competition, because I like Quinn’s game when he has time to throw.
by legendarywalton on Mar 14, 2010 7:00 PM MDT reply actions
Its been mentioned but I will say it again, I like the move BUT
I hope Orton is strong enough in the head to not get phased. Im hoping McD tells Orton in private that he wont get benched and will stick with him this year. Quinn will be helped by McD but will need that first year to learn the system, it had better be on the bench. I expect a better Orton against the deffenses we play next year.
Regarding this,
I have always felt that keeping his head on straight when under fan (and coach) duress was always the strongest part of KO’s game. AND, I will be shocked if he does not have a stronger season than 2009 this year.
Despite that positive statement on KO, I close off my day every evening checking this site for moves to help the O-line, or at least give me a clue. I guess I find out on draft day.
Whether we like it or not is irrelevent. He’s here I I hope he does well. I didn’t like the Plummer signing at first and he turned out to be our best QB of the decade.
by admill on Mar 14, 2010 7:51 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
I think it was a poor move
I am trying to stay positive, but Hillis was a stud, not last year, cuz McD refused to play him, but he is a bad mofo. Quinn will always be a back up, not worth two draft picks and Hillis, no way, never.
Shaun hill does not have the physical tools to be anything more than a backup QB.
Quinn at least has potential
by black_knight101 on Mar 15, 2010 12:02 AM MDT up reply actions
Tom Bradstater is six days older than Brady Quinn. Both men were born in October of 1984.
This surprised me a bit
In my opinion.
This is an interesting move.
I voted yes because he is an improvement over Simms, who just doesn’t have it, and the fact that Hillis wasn’t going to get much playing time in 2010. It sucks because I really liked Hillis and he is a good, tough player to have. Hopefully he will find his place in Cleveland. I am not sold just yet on Quinn being a solid starter, however maybe McDaniels can work with him and help him improve.
Low risk and high reward so we’ll see what happens…….camp should be interesting.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Not sure he has to become a starter
If he is rehabbed a bit, and becomes more valuable, he still may end up getting us an extra 2d or 3rd round pick in two years… while giving us more credibility as a backup in the meantime. Becoming a starter would be evidence that McD/X stole that sports book that we know exists from the documentary “Back to the Future”.
I don't expect him to be a starter
I like Orton as our QB…..I was just saying. He will put some good pressure on Orton and will be a good backup when needed.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
It was an okay move,
I do believe Quinn has more upside side than down. I’m not sure any QB in the NFL would have made the Browns any better the last couple of years. Upgrade over Simms I do believe.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
I like it
We really didn’t give up that much. If Quinn makes a good backup, this is a good trade. Quite honestly, if a 6th round pick makes your roster in his rookie year, you either have a weak team or you got lucky. Quinn will make it as a backup at the worst and then there is the possibility of him becoming even more for us eventually. This was a sound move for the Broncos IMHO. GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our new DOOMesday Defense!!!! YOU LIKE??????????????
What round draft choice was Rod Smith?
Answer? He didn’t get drafted. So to say that a sixth or seventh round pick doin well, means your team sucks is not valid. A lot of the time, those players want it more than the first rounders, because they had to work so much harder for it. Just ask Rod if you ever see him around town. I went to school at Missouri Southern and watched him play.
But back to the point, a good quarterback makes the other players play better. Do you really think the three amigos were that amazing, or did John Elway know how, when, and where to get them the ball? Everybody stood an inch taller in the huddle with Elway, therefore, I don’t buy the, “Nobody could make Cleveland better” argument. I am sure Quinn is a decent backup. Worth what Hillis has and two draft picks? No way!

by 





























