Would the Broncos Draft a QB this Year, you betcha.
by Broncoman on Mar 15, 2010 11:26 AM MDT
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PrintI will admit two things, I don’t like Orton as a starting QB for our team and I like Brady Quinn even less as a starter. I learned everything I needed to know about Brady Quinn when he was drafted. The guy started crying because teams in the NFL figured out he was an over-hyped, body builder QB coming out of Norte Dame that had horrible accuracy past 10 yards. Seeing this guy cry because he wasn’t a top ten pick showed me what type of player he is, he is about style and looks and has nothing to do with being a QB. His rookie year his teammates hazed him and forced him to get a buzz cut, and he cried about that (see Tom Brandstrater look last year ala Terry Bradshaw to see how to handle rookie hazing). This guy got benched for Derek Anderson, enough said. In all simple terms, Kyle Orton is gotta be jumping for joy knowing that Quinn is going to make him look like Joe Montana next to Rick Meier. That being said, I think this notion that the Broncos will not draft a QB early is somewhat naïve.
Let me propose the following scenario, lets suggest that either Sam Bradford or Jimmy Claussen falls in the draft to number 11. Now this may be a doubtful scenario but not unheard of. I think Denver would be foolish not to draft either of them, and here is why. First you have to ask yourself is Orton or Quinn the QB of the future (or even Brandstrater) and if so how certain are you of this. I doubt anyone who has any true rational could look at any of our current QB’s and say I have a 100% certainty that guy is the future and will lead us to multiple SB titles. In fact, I am willing to bet that the vast majority of people, including Josh McDaniels probably have about 30% certainty that long term solution at QB is on the team now. If they had faith in Kyle Orton I am sure they would of signed him to a long-term deal by now and not placed a low tender offer on him. If they had faith it was Brady, they probably would have been willing to pay more to get him. So if a player like Bradford or Claussen that may be the true future QB of the team is there and you have more faith in them, then why not take him when you have the ability. Especially if you can get a guy who may be a top 5 talent at number 11 money.
So now you are saying, well what the hell would we do with 4 QBs, and I agree. But it does give you some interesting options. Option 1 would be to keep Quinn, Orton, and who ever you draft and cut Brandstrater. That would give you three viable starting QB options and allow you to eventually move Orton or Quinn next year for some draft picks. Option two would be to trade either Orton or Quinn, and thereby allow you players in return this year or maybe next year. Option 3 would be to trade Bradford or Claussen to a team like Minnesota or Arizona who may be looking for a new QB and get maybe a low 1st this year and a 1st next year if you are confident that Quinn or Orton is the long-term solution. But adding depth and quality to the QB position is not a bad idea, look at what Philadelphia has done with McNabb, Kolb, and Vick, they now have multiple options and ways to get players they want or need by trading a QB.
Now I do agree adding a latter round QB probably isn’t in the cards unless someone takes a dramatic fall. So this probably eliminates the second tier guys like Teabow, Pike, and LeFeberve since I doubt there would be room to develop two QB’s, unless the team feels Brandstrater will never develop, which I don’t think is the case. But if someone like Teabow or Pike did fall past the 5th, maybe it makes sense to trade up and get a player that may be a better long term prospect than Brandstrater.
Either way, I think saying the Broncos won't draft a QB this year may be short sighted, if the talent is there and the value is there, you have to roll the dice. QB is the hardest position to fill and the highest value on a team. Ignoring good value in the draft is what desperate teams do, smart teams look at the value and understand that having different options to address needs is the best approach, rather than reaching for need.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I can assure you that if Kyle is jumping for joy...
He should prepare for an immense “FALL” back to earth…He’s been served notice. His job is on the line, and the fact they picked a younger QB, younger than Tom B, should send a signal that they’re not completely sold on Orton. Look over your shoulder Kyle…that sound you hear is not a train, it’s the roar of many fans that will be heard when McD replaces you at some point in 2010 as the starting QB….
Here’s Quinn’s college stats! I believe you’ll see that accuracy and TD/INT werent a problem. The problem was Cleveland….“Cleveland”!
Stats:
Here’s Brady Quinn’s college #’s @ Notre Dame….
Brady Quinn;
Stats Overview Passing
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 191 353 2586 54.1 7.33 54 17 10 25 125.87
2005 292 450 3919 64.9 8.71 80 32 7 21 158.40
2006 289 467 3426 61.9 7.34 62 37 7 31 146.65
Now compare these to Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady….Go ahead…his stats are in 05/06 are "All American" quality and even Heisman? Check out his COMP% and especially his TD/INT ratio. I’d say it’s not him, it’s the system that failed both he and Derek Anderson. It’s Cleveland……Hello!
"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM
College stats are college stats
I could pull up David Klinger’s college stats and make you think he was the second coming of Otto Graham/John Unitas/Joe Montana/and John Elway. Stats in college can be very decieving, plenty of guys had great stats and have floped in the NFL. I look at how well the guy can throw the ball and who he had around him. Plus Norte Dame doesn’t play the hardest schedule in the world, taking on the likes of Army, Navy, Washington State, etc.. doesn’t instill a lot of confidence in me.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Mar 15, 2010 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rayn Leaf had great college stats
Unfortunately for him, he couldn’t play pro ball or (even engineer a functional crime). JM Russell had pretty great college stats. Lots of folks who can’t play NFL football do. That’s one of the things that makes the pro game so much harder to scout talent for.
It all starts with the lines
by Doc Bear on Mar 15, 2010 6:29 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
that was my first thought verbatim when i read that comment
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
So tell us..
How do you
reallyfeel about Brady Quinn? Actually, I agree with your opinion.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Interesting, but I'm not buying it
Kyle Orton is 27. Quinn and Brandstater are both 25. As much as I would like some of the QB’s in this draft, this trade makes it far less likely. That is unless we cut Tom Brandstater, which I don’t see either.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 15, 2010 11:52 AM MDT reply actions
Huh?
If they had faith in Kyle Orton I am sure they would of signed him to a long-term deal by now and not placed a low tender offer on him. If they had faith it was Brady, they probably would have been willing to pay more to get him.
A first round tender on Orton is high, they my be waiting for the season or post-draft to offer better contracts… Why pay the full price for a car if you can get it for less? That statement regarding Quinn is just insane, why pay more when you can get him for less. Will we take a qb high, who knows but it would make more sense to trade our pick to someone who’s willing to trade up to snag a qb.
OK a first round tender is pretty low if you think about it for a QB of the future
Do you think Tom Brady got a 1st round tender or Peyton Manning after their 4th years, any team could sign an up and coming QB and all it would cost them is a 1st round draft pick. Denver just put a 1st round tender on Orton because they understand he probably isn’t the long range solution and if a team really saw something in him, then we would get what we dem as more than fair compenstation. The first round tender assures we don’t have to pay Orton that much (compared to oter starting QB’s) and we can keep him for another year. It’s not like other teams are banging down the door to sign him, so obviously the rest of the league views Orton as not worth that much.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
It’s not low, it’s enough to keep other teams from coming around. We didn’t sign Kyle to a long-term contract because we didn’t need to. The jury is still out on Orton. The fact that we didn’t sign Orton long-term doesn’t display a lack of confidence in the player. If that was the case, that means we have no faith in Dumervil either, is that what you’re saying? I for one think he can be good in this system in his second year and moving forward, McDaniels thinks the same thing, which is why he is still slated as our starter for next year. If Orton performs like McDaniels and Orton expect him to next year, then we will have no problem signing him to a multi-year deal. If not, we let Orton walk and have 2 possible starters the following year in Brandstater and Quinn, and can decide what to do from there. Remember this, McDaniels knows infinitely more than any of us do on what it takes to be a starting, and winning QB in this league. If he didn’t think Orton could get it done, he wouldn’t be on the team.
You need to understand something Broncoman, Quinn was brought in on the cheap to replace Simms as a solid backup who could potentially develop into something more in the future under McD’s tutelage. He wasn’t brought in to put Kyle’s feet to the fire.
by aLuffabo on Mar 15, 2010 5:59 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Comparison
Carolina tendered a 1st and 3rd for Matt Moore whom they feel is the QB of the future. So Broncoman makes a valid point that only tendering him at a 1st does not show the same faith/commitment from the Broncos to Orton.
Like the post Broncoman it is a nice alternate point of view for those who do not feel that the Broncos have the long term answer at QB on the roster.
Nope. Carolina overdid it with the first and third tender on Moore, they could have slapped a first only tender on him and nobody would come knocking. Again, the fact that we put a first rounder on Orton doesn’t show a lack of faith in him, our front office correctly determined the lowest tender they were comfortable putting on Kyle so that other teams wouldn’t be willing to snatch him away from us. If we didn’t want Kyle, or didn’t think he was worth it, we wouldn’t have tendered him at all, it’s that simple.
Dumervil was a 1st and 3rd tender
So that shows we want him long term, you made my point, Orton does not have the confidence of the organization hence only a 1st round tender, and it is low if you actually think he is a legit starting QB. Again, do you think any organization that had extreme faith in a young QB would only tender a 1st round pick, you think Matt Ryan and Flacco would only get a 1st round tender, they would be stupid, any team looking for a legit starting QB would glad to hand over only a 1st rounder to sign them.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Yes, Dumervil garnered a first and third because he is a much hotter commodity on the market right now. You also need to remember that signing a restricted free agent amounts to more than just losing a draft pick. If a team came after Orton, they would have to be willing to give us their first, but they would also have to outbid us in a salary war. It’s not just as easy as, “here’s our first rounder, now you send over the player.” That’s not how it works, they would have to make an offer for Orton that we would be unwilling to match, and seeing how Kyle is unproven at this point, what team would be willing to do that? So, again, the Broncos tendered Orton at the perfect amount. We will keep our starting QB at a cheap amount next year, and if he performs well, we can lock him up to a long term deal next year. What do you want? Our front office to start unnecessarily placing unneeded tenders on players and overpaying them for no reason, other than a show of faith? That’s bad business. Your logic is backwards.
What I am telling you is that McX has handled the business side of this offseason regarding the QB situation just about perfectly. We tendered Orton with a first rounder to keep him around and keep him around at a pretty good price, we got a first round talent who fits our system for practically nothing, and we still have a cerebral, talented late round draft pick learning behind them. You can be mad about the fact that we don’t have Peyton Manning or Drew Brees on our team all you want, but the fact is that McDaniels is smarter than you, and he thinks Orton can win us some MF games. I’ll side with him on this one.
Maybe not the QB of the future
But Orton is the QB of now.
Without getting too hung up on analogies, think of this as a poker game. The Broncos have a winning hand, but they want to see how much they can push the pot. It’s a bit silly to bet the house and make everyone drop out. If another team tries to sign Orton (or Marshall for that matter) then the Broncos will have a chance to match while letting the market set the value. Meanwhile, they’ve secured his services without paying more than they have too.
@LuckyCast: Just because Carolina does something stupid doesn’t mean Denver has to as well. I guarantee that Moore’s services would have been retained by Carolina even with a 1st round tender.
It's not uncommon for a reloading team to carry 4 QBs
Belichick did it in 2000, adding a 6th rounder who worked out. I’m in favor of only keeping 3 after training camp, but let’s be honest about a few things. First – this isn’t a threat to Orton’s job. That’s still his to lose. Second, the Broncos are obviously keeping their options open until Orton takes another step upward (if he improves his stats as much from 2009 to 2010 as he did from 2008-2009, he’ll probably get a nice contract) or someone else takes over the job. Orton was always going to be at OTAs – this is his persona since the day he was drafted and back into college. He is a classic blue-collar guy, who keeps his attitude up and understands that he isn’t the more physically gifted, but that hard work is what drew NE to Brady and that it has always stood Orton in good stead. He recognizes that as the starter, it’s up to him to accept life’s quirks and keep working.
Quinn is very cheap insurance. He’s also very young and wasn’t well developed, whether that’s his own weaknesses or not. I spent some time this morning looking at film from the past two seasons on Quinn, and his mechanics are all over the place. He might improve on that – if he doesn’t, he won’t be there for long. He’s got some on-field experience over Brandstater. No matter what McD said about Simms working extremely hard, what he did last season has to concern the team greatly when choosing a #2. I think that this acquisition says more about Simms’ performance than Orton’’s. Brandstater can still take the #2 job in camp with a good enough performance.
Given the lower number of draft picks that Denver has, I’m not advocating using one on carrying a 5th QB into camp or a 4th out of it, but teams have done this numerous times in similar situations. I think that it depends more than anything on how McD views the QBs in this year’s draft, and right now, he’s not telling.
It all starts with the lines
by Doc Bear on Mar 15, 2010 12:25 PM MDT reply actions 6 recs
Rec'ed this
Based on a sample size of one, it looks like McD has a different view of player personel than the conventional wisdom. With this move he deals a player from a strong position to get a player to butress a weaker position. Quinn is cheap both for acquisition and for retention — cheaper even than a late round pick.
This moves gives them lots of options going into the draft to focus on other positions and/or best players available.
It's true
But if he wins the starting job, it isn’t so cheap any more, 5.9 million dollars more expensive.
It's not how I really feel about Quinn....
It’s just seeing things the way they are and appear to be heading. Also, you don’t have to “buy it” because I’m not selling it. There are reasons for everything, and the fact he’s a Weis QB, growing up in a New England offense, being sought by Josh since last year as part of Cutlergate….tells me McD’s had his eye on him from day 1. That’s why McD wants a full blown QB competition. Josh would like nothing better than to prove everyone wrong, and ensure we all know HE is THE qb master. Like the saying goes, “if you can back it up…it ain’t bragging”! I’m a huge McD fan… Seriously!
"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM
I agree with some of the post, but I still don't see it.
Bradford won’t be there. Clausen might but even with the value in mind, I just don’t see McD going that route. ( not that I know the guy or anything, obviously) There should be other “great” values at pick 11 that probably go with our needs as well. While I’m not really pleased with our QB situation either, I don’t think thats one of them.
It's plain to see that this post is created to stir up controversy and argument,
but as mild mannered as I am most of the time, I’ll indulge the madness…Option #1 means that McD believes Brandstater is a bust and won’t develop into the type of quarterback he wants. I disagree with that as it is way too early to intertain that thought. Option #2 is we trade either Kyle Orton or Brady Quinn? If that were the case (and it isn’t) other teams would have jumped on Quinn already and Orton with just one year in the system isn’t going anywhere. Option #3 Bradford and Clausen will probably be off the board before we select at 11. If the Rams don’t pick a QB they will be the laughing stock of the NFL and they know it. They will pick Sam bradford at #1. That leaves Jimmy Clausen (learned in a pro-style offense). If we look down the board we see a couple of teams that might need a franchise type QB, Skins and Seahags. I don’t think both of these teams will pass on Clausen, he may end up in Skins Town where Shanny may think he has a Jarius Jackson in Jason Campbell. The Seahags are more in need with Hasselbeck declining as well.
With that said, I believe we stand pat with the QB’s we have, release Simms and have an extra pick we would of used for a late rd QB on another position of importance…Clarity is as close to seeing without bi-focals then anything I know…
by bfree2bronc on Mar 15, 2010 1:16 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
there you go
agree with both of you. If clausen or bradford were available at 11, then yes we would (and should) take them at 11. Probability though is that they won’t be there, and we won’t choose another QB this year.
Well, we're down another QB
Let the speculation…well, continue, really…..lol
It all starts with the lines
Well Bradford will not be there
and Clausen will not go in the Top 15. Clausen is very overrated and I have read a couple places he is overvalued by fans and is not really high on a lot of teams boards. The only way we can upgrade our QB situation is if we some how get Bradford
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 15, 2010 4:16 PM MDT reply actions
I saw clausen play last year
and don’t know anything about is mechanics, release or any of those things that scouts look for. But I hate the irish and i never wanted him to have the ball with the last drive of the 4th quarter. He has some intangibles that not all college qb’s have.
I honestly think the chances of us drafting a QB are low
Maybe somebody in the 7th (maybe), but I would be intrigued to see what McD would do if Clausen or Bradford fell to us (which I doubt, but you never know). I’d expect something along the lines of picking up somebody who goes undrafted, see how he does in training camp, and if he shows potential, sign him to the practice squad.
Broncos can not draft a QB. WHY?
Because with only five picks, you can not waste one. PERIOD
by DLMyers on Mar 15, 2010 4:59 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
What if you draft Bradford and can trade Bradford to the Vikings for say Pouncy and a 1st or 2nd rounder next year
Would that be a waste?
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
You don’t draft players in the NFL with the intention of trading them after the fact… doesn’t happen. The trade would happen before the pick is made. It’s all about leverage.
If we draft a player with the intention of trading him, other teams know this and we lose our bargaining power. It’s bad business.
Unless...
Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers are being drafted?
Strength and honor
"It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you've got to have is faith and discipline when you're not yet a winner." -Vince lombarti
by kybroncomaniac on Mar 16, 2010 3:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Getting Pouncey woulnd't be a waste
If we can get picks with him for our pick that’d be pretty f’in sweet.
by RockyMountainHigh on Mar 15, 2010 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I believe
The broncos still may draft a QB, but I say it will be 3rd round or later. My perception, broncoman is that you are placing a higher value on the “potential” of a Clausen or a Bradford, based upopn the fact that pre-draft evaluators have put a high first round grade on these two QB’s for this year.
This seems to happen every year and as fans we bite, but there hasn’t been a tremendously high sucess rate on QB’s drafted in the first round.
Some notable QB’s that have been hyped up and not shown much Russell,Young,Leinart, Cutler and even our very own Brady Quinn.
My point is that I don’t know if I have much more confidence in a rookie QB who hasn’t seen and NFL field anymore than young NFL QB’s who haven’t come into their own yet.
I don't know about the first round
I think this is WAY too deep of a draft and we have other needs that far surpass the QB position at this point for next season. Sure, we can take Bradford or Clausen but that won’t help us next year, and I think McXanders, and especially McD, is gonna want some immediate help.
But I’m sure they have numerous late round QB prospects in mind. QBs are McD’s primary field of interest, so there’s bound to be tons. John Skelton is the name I wouldn’t be surprised with. 4th? 5th?
by RockyMountainHigh on Mar 15, 2010 10:21 PM MDT reply actions
remember when we benched plummer and put in JC because Jake the snake wasn't our 'QB of the future'?
yeah, I do too
Tom Brady is considered a franchise player now. But the opportunity to be called that was thanks to a freak injury and quite a few lucky/clutch field goals. Even after they won it the first time many in Boston were questioning his ‘QB of the future status’.
Also, on Kolb and the Eagles: have they traded him yet? Have they realized the value of having three starting-caliber qbs on the roster yet? Didn’t think so. Were the 49ers smart to keep Young riding pine while Montana did work? I guess, cuz they won a superbowl. But I can’t help but think that there’s an optimal time to get a QB to train behind a franchise one, and IMO both the Eagles and the 49ers jumped on it too early.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
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