Draft Dez Bryant --Only If You're Playing Monopoly
by TJ Johnson on Mar 17, 2010 9:30 AM MDT
in 2010 NFL Draft - Denver Broncos
190 comments
"The process was really thorough. We took our time. It was important for me to get the right fit for our football team."
--Matt Millen, Former General Manager, Detroit Lions
Matt McGuire, over at Walter Football, is probably best known for his mock drafts. But it's his blog that I enjoy more. Recently, he had a blog entry entitled, NFL Draft Picks Are Business Investments. He wrote something that I think deserves a lot more attention:
If I gave you $4 million to invest, would you invest that money into a company that didn't care very much about what they were doing? Would you be confident about investing in a business that didn't care about customer service, their product, employee relations, employee performance and leadership?
I doubt you would - you might as well throw the $4 million into a fire.
But what if this company had a lot of upside? Would you still be willing to lose the $4 million if you could get a large return in a couple years? It's a massive risk.
How can a company that doesn't care become profitable? It's almost impossible for that to happen.
So why should we evaluate NFL Draft prospects any differently? In translation: How can an NFL player be successful if he has a very mediocre work ethic, doesn't love the game, doesn't take the process seriously, and is immature?
Like McGuire or not (he's not exactly McDaniels friendly), he is absolutely spot on with these comments. Owners are not playing with Monopoly money. These are real dollars that they stand to lose.
As fans, we sometimes forget that the NFL is a business--an entertainment business. And in business (whether it's manufacturing or paying guys to prance around gingerly in black and silver on Sundays), investment returns matter. So, as much as you might "bleed" predominantly orange and blue, as much hard-core passion as you might feel for the Broncos, as much as you might have cried when John Elway hoisted the Lombardi Trophy, Pat Bowlen still has to make a buck. A lot of bucks in fact.
In other words, players are investments. It's that simple. I hate to break it to you if you weren't so inclined. The NFL is littered with players, who, after their investment value wore thin, were shipped, kicked, or dumped to the curb. If it were otherwise, Steve Atwater would have finished his career a Bronco and John Lynch a Buccaneer. But, as we know, it was never to be. For whatever reason, they were perceived as bad investments.
If we accept this premise, then anything that puts an investment at risk is something I'm running away from. If it's my money, I don't care if a player has an upside as high as Chuck Norris. If he has work-ethic issues, I'm staying far far away.
Which brings me to Dez Bryant.
Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
This year Bryant is playing the roll of next-great-can't-miss-wide-receiver. And he might just be. While he's not blazing fast, his talent is unquestioned. Pro Football Weekly had this to say about him:
Supremely athletic playmaker with game-changing ability. Has big, strong hands and can snag the ball out of the air with one glove. Runs smooth routes and can accelerate out of his breaks. Has outstanding speed to separate against man or bracket coverage and is very creative with the ball after the catch. Has quick feet, strong legs, great balance and outstanding open-field vision as a runner and returner. Shows terrific concentration and makes acrobatic, in-air adjustments that few NFL receivers are capable of making..an elite receiving talent in a slighter mold of Texans 2003 third overall pick Andre Johnson...a clutch performer who will make a good quarterback look great.
That's quite a description. One might already confuse him with Andre Johnson. And it's this kind of talk that has over 1/3 of the mock drafts out there picking the Broncos to take Bryant.
Let's hope Josh McDaniels doesn't play to the crowd.
Upside's Downside
And yet, there's another side to Bryant. Jason Cole (Yahoo Sports) recently explored this other side:
Three sources with direct knowledge of Bryant from his days in college, where he missed the final 10 games last season because of lying to NCAA investigators, said Bryant's antics were "consistently irresponsible."
Cole goes on to quote these three separate sources:
"I wouldn't draft that kid unless I had someone to wake him up in the morning to get to meetings, someone to wake him up for practice and someone to wake him up for games," one source said.
A second source said Bryant's reputation was earned because he was consistently late to team activities. That included showing up late for games.
"We're not just talking about being a little late for warmups, but like being late for the actual game," a source said with a chuckle. "When you start to hear some of the stories out there, you go, ‘He did what?' "
Say what you want about sources, but Cole provides three, and if there is even the slightest truth to these reports, you've got to really question Bryant's work ethic and investment value over the long term.
In many ways, I'm much more concerned about these reported practice habits than I am about the revelations about Bryant lying to NCAA investigators. Putting morality aside for a moment, ask yourself this question: If Dez Bryant is showing up late for practices and games in college, how much work ethic is he going to demonstrate when he's already got guaranteed money in his pocket? Is he suddenly going to turn Eddie McCaffrey on us? I think it's doubtful.
How would this kind of practice behavior fit on a Josh McDaniels coached team? Not well. As John Bena wrote on Monday:
With McDaniels every day is a new day - a new competition so to speak - for the 53 men on the roster. The best 45 will be active every Sunday, and regardless of pay-check or draft status the best 11 men on offense and the best 11 men on defense will play on Sunday.
Does Dez Bryant sound like this type of guy to you? Does Byrant sound like he's the type of guy who is going to wake up scared every day, as Rod Smith did, worried that his roster spot won't be there?
Smith's work ethic is what you want to see from any wide receiver, regardless of talent. That's because wide-receiving talent has been notoriously difficult to project to the NFL. While it's hard to label any draft pick a bust, since 2000, there have been 43 wide receivers drafted in the 1st round. Of these wideouts drafted, 10 have made the Pro-Bowl at least once in their career:
| Year Drafted | Player | Pro Bowls |
|---|---|---|
| 2009 | Percy Harvin | 1 |
| 2007 | Braylon Edwards | 1 |
| 2007 | Roddy White | 1 |
| 2004 | Larry Fitzgerald | 4 |
| 2005 | Roy Wililams | 1 |
| 2003 | Andre Johnson | 4 |
| 2002 | Javon Walker | 1 |
| 2001 | Koren Robinson | 1 |
| 2001 | Santana Moss | 1 |
| 2001 | Reggie Wayne | 4 |
This isn't a bad list at all, although you'd get a lot of argument from fans regarding Edwards, Williams, Walker, and Robinson, given their 1st-round status. It's still too early to judge Harvin. But of the 43, though, I'd say Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald have had the sort of impact that is projected upon Bryant.
For those that just have to know, here are the other receivers taken in the 1st round since 2000 that have never been to a Pro-Bowl:
| Year | Team | Player |
|---|---|---|
| 2009 | OAK | Darrius Heyward-Bey |
| 2009 | SFO | Michael Crabtree |
| 2009 | PHI | Jeremy Maclin |
| 2009 | NYG | Hakeem Nicks |
| 2009 | TEN | Kenny Britt |
| 2007 | DET | Calvin Johnson |
| 2007 | MIA | Ted Ginn Jr. |
| 2007 | KAN | Dwayne Bowe |
| 2007 | NOR | Robert Meachem |
| 2007 | SDG | Craig Davis |
| 2007 | IND | Anthony Gonzalez |
| 2006 | PIT | Santonio Holmes |
| 2005 | MIN | Troy Williamson |
| 2005 | DET | Mike Williams |
| 2005 | JAX | Matt Jones |
| 2005 | BAL | Mark Clayton |
| 2004 | JAX | Reggie Williams |
| 2004 | BUF | Lee Evans |
| 2004 | TAM | Michael Clayton |
| 2004 | ATL | Michael Jenkins |
| 2004 | SFO | Rashaun Woods |
| 2003 | DET | Charles Rogers |
| 2003 | ARI | Bryant Johnson |
| 2002 | NOR | Donte Stallworth |
| 2002 | DEN | Ashley Lelie |
| 2001 | CHI | David Terrell |
| 2001 | WAS | Rod Gardner |
| 2001 | PHI | Freddie Mitchell |
| 2000 | CIN | Peter Warrick |
| 2000 | PIT | Plaxico Burress |
| 2000 | BAL | Travis Taylor |
| 2000 | KAN | Sylvester Morris |
| 2000 | JAX | R. Jay Soward |
Still willing to invest your own money?
Moralizer or Risk Manager?
To be clear, I'm not making a moral argument, nor am I making a judgement about Bryant. In life, no one is perfect. In fact, if there was ever a time to cut a kid a break, it's now. Byrant had an extremely hard upbringing. As John Helsely wrote in the 2010 Pro Football Weekly Draft Guide:
Dez was 8 when his mom was caught selling crack cocaine to a police informant. The assistant district attorney called her a "bad dope dealer." And when she pleaded guilty to a felony charge of delivery of cocaine, the sentence was four years in state prison.
Bryant deserves a shot to get it right, to wipe the slate clean, to play in the NFL. In the end, no one really knows how he'll turn out. He might end up being as clean as Eddie Royal, although I doubt he'll get the 91 catches to go along with it.
But this shot should not come at the expense of Denver's #11 pick. The dollars are too great. We're not talking about $4 million as McGuire suggests as his threshold. Oh no. That's chump change. We're talking about $18 to $20 million. That is what last year's #11 pick, Aaron Maybin, signed for. To me, $18 million is simply too much to gamble on a guy who often had to be walked to class during his brief time at Oklahoma State.
Let someone else take the gamble, as someone almost certainly will. There is no shortage of Bryant backers and teams who are willing to take a flyer on so-called "character issues." As Matt Bowen writes in the National Football Post:
Add in Bryant's pro day-which he should light up if he is fully healthy-and I don't see how a team in need of a high first round WR will pass. Yes, there will be clubs who have dedicated meetings to talk about Bryant, and may go a different route because of his character that is now out in the open, but if I am in need of a first round talent at WR, I go ahead and pull the trigger.
The draft is still based off of talent first.
Bowen is right. The draft is about talent. All fans can agree on that. Especially if it's Pat Bowlen's money you're spending.
Monopoly, anyone?
25 recs |
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I learned all I needed to know about Bryant when he was interviewed at the Combine.
One of the pre-requisites for the McX system is intelligence, and Bryant does not appear to have it. He does not seem to fit the profile of what we are looking for.
Things I am sick of: 1. Incontinence 2. Phillip Rivers 3. Diva WR’s
Great post. Complete agreement
/scratches head
The three things in common are….diapers?
Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal.
by MrFNSunshine on Mar 17, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
lol
There's a big hard sun, beating on the big people, in the big hard world.
formerly Styg-like
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 17, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions
nice post, TJ
I just need to say one thing to the Broncos brass…..
DO NOT DRAFT DEZ BRYANT!
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
Hey, mdierk! Glad to see you didn't need to bring out the quality control on me:-)!
Thanks for reading this, man!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I'm not sure what I could even do to warrant...
quality control on anyone.
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
Oh, I can think of a few things.....
have you seen this guy McGeorge…..hahahaha
KIDDING MCG!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
A thought on WRs
Anyone else notice that the “Diva WRs” who develop to be pretty good performance wise tend to be drafted in the 3rd or 4th round. Down where they KNOW they could be cut easily. Maybe that is where Bryant needs to be drafted.
Maybe NFL teams need to stop drafting WRs before the mid 2nd round unless they are all 5th year seniors who are team captains that spend their weekends studying. Or kids who graduated early with excellent grades. Just a thought as it seems that WR is a position with a lot of potential downside.
TULO MVP 2010, Gold Glove 2010-2024 (The last 3 on merit rather than skill) HOF 2029
Looking for a member of the mainstream media who doesn't make me angry with their consistent lack of effort to understand the sports that happen in the middle of the US Hasn't happened for 12 years now.
User name pronounced Air-Ah-Miss Originally from my days in the SCA, became a gamer and forum tag because it is odd and it is a name I like
draft is about talent...
Dez Bryant is like buying boardwalk. Huge payoff…….but what if no one ever lands on it?
Why risk it? Just go with a responsible, consistent reciever.
your mom
by GrocerySnake on Mar 17, 2010 9:56 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, like a Marvin Gardens
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
NFL salaries ARE monopoly money
To take that idea further, NFL owner are generally very rich and own the team because they like owning a team. And even with those that aren’t super independently wealthy, I don’t think any owner’s primary motivation when making salary decisions is maximizing profits. Its all about winning games. I bet a lot of people make very different tolerances for risk when they are playing a game where the only goal is to be number 1 out of 32 than they would when investing money where losses are a disaster and there is no drastic benefit to getting the highest return over a slightly lower “second-place” return.
I’m not saying that I would necessarily draft Bryant or ignore his red flags or always draft the guy with the highest upside regardless of risk. But I would be willing to make huge risks if the impact of success could mean finishing number one, say by drafting a potential franchise quarterback.
Or a hungry one.
They don’t make many like Rod Smith, do they?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
You da man TJ
Love the post. Great read and very very insightful.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Yahoo Sports
I agree with the post, but I have not heard anything negative about Dez Bryant other than what yahoo sports reported. To me yahoo sports is E! magazine of sports. I really don’t know if I can trust what they reported…
Late for games?
I don’t have first hand knowledge, but that claim is really suspect. It’s not like that is something they could hide. They have a routine, and Bryant is out there doing warmups before every game. If he was not there, it would be news. But look up Bryant late for games and you will only find this quote and OSU fans talking about how they saw him out there before every game, no actual indication that he was ever really late.
As far as work ethic goes, let’s be clear about what kind of work ethic we are talking about. It is not the lack of work ethic that usually is discussed, about not being able to keep in shape; the guy is a physical beast. And as far as I can tell, its not about his effort during games, where he has even shown himself to be a willing and capable downfield blocker. So at most, and this is only if you believe these anonymous Yahoo sources, we are talking about an Allen Iverson “practice?” kind of problem. And I wouldn’t avoid drafting a young AI for that reason.
Just as an example:
He could have still shown up late on game days even if he made it in time to warmup. Say the game is at 2, warm-ups are at 1, and coach tells everyone to be here no later than noon. Let’s say he shows up at 12:45, still making it on the field for warm-ups. While all the fans claim they saw him at pregame warmups, in his coaches & teammates eyes he showed up late for the game.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
The source
Specifically said that he wasn’t just late for warm-ups, that he was actually late for the start of games.
No it doesn't
It said he was “late for games”, not “late for kickoff”.
He could have been late for the required time to be at the stadium. Either, if true, is a serious red flag.
2009 Season Motto: TAKE IT!! TAKE IT!! TAAAAAAAKE IT!!!!!
The best powder is pure, light, dry Colorado powder!!
Go Broncos!!!!!
by powderaddict on Mar 18, 2010 6:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Young AI doesn't have a championship and you saw how he handled his days with the
Nuggets. I would argue your AI point just made my case even stronger.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
AI
Is almost unquestionably the most successful player under 6 foot in NBA history. He almost single-handedly took a team to the finals, where he was beat by the defending champion Lakers who had Shaq and Kobe despite averaging over 35 points a game. He never had the talent around him to win a championship. While on the Nuggets, he gave as much effort as I could ever ask for on the court. That team didn’t have the right parts to be any more succesful than it was. I mean, Anthony Carter was the starting point guard. I don’t know what you could possibly referring to as a negative during his days with the Nuggets. As you can tell, I am a big AI fan. But that’s really besides the point.
All I’m saying is that, at worse, Bryant appears to have an attitude problem which hasn’t gotten him in trouble with the law and doesn’t appear to have affected his performance on the field. If you think that is a deal breaker, than I hope you are also the first to say that Marshall has no business being on this team. Just trying to put the alleged Bryant problems in perspective.
Agreed, asd. AI was a bad MF.
I shouldn’t slam the guy that bad. When he was on the court, he gave 150%. No one can deny that.
But, let’s contrast him with Bird or Jordan, for instance. Yes, those guys had more talent, but from a practice habits perspective, it’s well known that both Bird and Jordan were SUPER intense in practice, almost to the point of it being like a game. I’m getting off topic slightly, but don’t you think that the whole “it’s just practice” bit is actually a signal of less than 100% commitment? Of course, no one is perfect. But imagine if his teammates saw a guy who was that intense at practice. How do you think Melo would have responded?
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I totally agree
that having not taken practice seriously in the past is a negative and a red flag. It’s just not all that high up there on my list of terrible things in a prospect. I’m much more worried about red flags like “has trouble staying in shape” or “take plays off” or “often out of position” (indicating that they didn’t put in the work necessary to succeed on gameday) or “doesn’t love the game.” Like Marshall, Bryant may (MAY) have had some problems giving full effort in practice at times, but doesn’t appear to have any of these other, imo, more serious red flags.
Good discussion.
Notice that AI doens’t get it either when he says in that clip:
“how am I supposed to make my teammates better in practice?”
Well, there are a lot of things, actually…maybe some 3 on 2 break drills, or some post feeds, you know?
Your point about bigger red flags is interesting, to be sure. It’s all subjective of course, but do you think practice work ethic and showing up late to games (assuming this is true) is less of a red flag than fff-the-field stuff?
Let’s say some cat gives 150% in practice, but likes to smoke weed? Better or worse?
Or 150% in practice, but is addicted to pain killers?
and we could go on from there. This isn’t meant silly, it’s interesting to me, this debate, because I consider the practice habits extremely critical.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I guess basically
I think I care more about on field, in game stuff because you can only succeed there if you are handling that other stuff well enough. I mean would you be at all impressed by a guy that everyone says goes 150% in practice but stops finishing routes and takes plays off if you don’t get him involved in the game plan right away on game day? Practice matters to the extent it shows up on the field.
If Bryant was an all upside guy, then I think practice would be much more important because it would reflect a lot of his potential to improve. But he appears to already be there on a lot of stuff, and to have been willing to put in the work to get to where he is now. The off field stuff I would care about is the stuff that could potentially lead to him not performing down the road, so stuff that looks like it could lead to suspensions or decreased performance.
It looks like a lot of the value you place on practice is the effect it has on chemistry and his relationship with and effect on the rest of the players and coaches. And I recognize this as a totally legit concern. My first response was that I haven’t seen anything about his teammates having trouble with him. Anyways, that is an easy thing for the Broncos to check up on. The other is that it is a two way street: the Broncos are building a solid foundation of leaders so that they can bring in those troubled guys and positively influence them. Look at the Pats with Moss or Chauncey’s effect on JR and even Melo.
Of course, I could be entirely wrong. The only thing I think I really think here is that the information we are getting on these alleged character issues is spotty and doesn’t appear to have affected his performance to date. Unless there is more concrete stuff out there, which I’m sure the Broncos would have much better access too, I’m not going to allow it to affect my opinion of the Bronco’s choice to draft him if that is the choice they make.
Plus, I would say basketball, with only 5 moving parts
Practice isn’t as critical as football, with 11 moving parts that are moving with much more chaos and violence.
A singular talent has a much bigger impact in Basketball than Football.
2009 Season Motto: TAKE IT!! TAKE IT!! TAAAAAAAKE IT!!!!!
The best powder is pure, light, dry Colorado powder!!
Go Broncos!!!!!
by powderaddict on Mar 18, 2010 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions
AI is the exception to the rule
A lone person with so much talent that he could “get by” as he did. Don’t you ever wonder what would have happened if he had practiced with more drive?
And TJ above, where’s the love for Magic when you throw in Bird and Jordan? He was driven and worked just as hard to win championships. My signature should now read sorry for threadjacking.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions
The horror!!!! The horror!!
Magic Johnson – Red Hot Chili Peppers
This should remedy my wrong!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
haha Thanks!
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, agreed about AI. Guy has so much natural ability.
I wish he would have realized it with the Nuggets.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
too different of styles to work. Chauncy much better suited at point
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I loved watching AI in Denver
At the same time, so did his teammates. And that’s usually what they did – stood around, watching AI. Even though he did well with a single team, carrying them on his back that year, he was a tough combination. He was a shooting guard in a smaller point guard’s body. But his job was to set up plays and distribute the ball, and that was where he didn’t perform well.
The belief that it was the lack of personnel around him and Melo tends to misfire when you look at how much more Billups got out of the same group. Therein lies the biggest issue – no matter how much you like him (or don’t, I suppose, although I do), he had very little skill at getting the best out of his teammates, one of the key skills in a point guards repertoire. I’m not even sure that he had much interest. He loved doing his AI thing, and it was a joy to watch. It wasn’t good for the team’s number of wins, though – while at times he could put the team on his back and get a win that they wouldn’t otherwise have had, he rarely helped them carry the load as a team.
When we take this back to football and the questions around Bryant, here are some things that might come into it:
1. He’s lazy with his classwork. That has gone far beyond a question here and there – multiple scouts have commented on it. In the NFL, the three largest obstacles for a WR are the fact that everyone is faster than you expect or have experienced, that you’ll be fighting a lot of press coverage (which few college WRs have much experience with) and the intellectual challenges of the position in the NFL. Constant work on the playbook, the tendencies of the opposing teams and their corners and in the film room proper are requirements to have a chance at greatness. He has a very poor background in classroom effort, and that should concern people.
2. Blame-shifting. Even when he admits that the NCAA was right to suspend him, he argues that it still wasn’t fair (sometimes in the same paragraph). Taking personal responsibility for your errors, rather than blaming others, makes a big difference.
3. Physical skills. If you’re lazy in practice, something that has been reported consistently with Dez, you’re not going to keep up with men who are professionals and who constantly put in the effort to improve. Give me a Rod Smith or an Eddie Mac every time – they do more for the team.
4. Cost. A WR at 11 is a very large contract. I know that folks are talking about Moss, but let’s look at the vast number of total failures taken in the first round as well as looking at what Moss cost his first team. When you need to put that kind of capital into a player, you have to attempt to minimize your risk.
5. Chemistry. A single bad attitude can pull down a half dozen others who have a tendency to ‘go with the flow’. The flow, in this case, is downhill.
It all starts with the lines
by Doc Bear on Mar 17, 2010 5:24 PM MDT up reply actions 8 recs
Rec'd simply for point 3!
You forgot “6. Treats Deion Sanders as a mentor.”
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Stop picking on AI!!
This is a Broncos blog!!
1. A solid point guard is basically a prerequisite to having a contending team in the NBA. AI is not, and never was a point guard. He is a way undersized shooting guard, who nevertheless was one of the best at that position ever. When he was on the Nuggets, AC was the point guard. AC is a terrible point guard. Billups is one of the best of all time. So of course everyone plays better with Billups than AC. Put Billups or Andre Miller or any other good point guard on those teams with AI and that team contends.
2. Billups was and is a better player period at this point in their careers. So of course the Nuggets are better with him. I’m a big AI fan, but I’m a huge Billups fan as well. Billups may be the single best guy of all time at getting undisiplined players, guys like Dez, to buy into the team and play winning ball. Just look at all the guys who were given up on before Detroit picked them up and turned into stars next to Billups. And look what happened to those players when Billups came to Denver, and what happened to Denver. Sure AI didn’t provide this. But, imo, neither does anyone else in the league, not to the extent Billups does. By the way, I see a lot of Billups in Dawkins. Unfortunately, it only appears to apply to the defensive side of the ball. We need a Dawkins on offense.
3. Look at that team he took to the finals. Just look at it. He carried that team on his back for an entire season. I get the ballhog criticism, but he just never got to play with a good point guard. It’s sad really. Would he have shared the ball if it was with someone worth sharing with? I think so, but we’ll never know. Them’s the breaks.
You sir are a scholar
I totally dig how you lay everything out for us on things like this. Rec’d and totally agree.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Also
I like the post, very well written and a lot of good points in there. I don’t want you to think that just because I am nitpicking about a few things or disagreeing with some (but certainly not all) of the conclusions that I don’t respect your work. Well done. I usually try and avoid putting opinions out there or drawing conclusions. Instead I just pick on others:)
no problem, asd, I'll just put you on the "communist" list
no, not really… The post Doc just gave on AI, I couldn’t have put it any better. What he said!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
YAHOOOOOOOOOOOO
Many articles are full of spelling and grammatical errors.
Just report stuff for the hell of it because they have taken a back seat to ESPN for the past 5 years.
However, I believe draft analysts have reported the same thing. I just don’t see why we would draft Dez Bryant instead of re-signing marshall. Just give the guy his damn money and lets all move on
Great post TJ....
I sure wish you had embedded a chart listing the other 40 something first round Wide Outs. That would have really hammered your point home. lmao!!!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Chibronx, you aren't a Lelie fan?
Come on, man. Next you’ll be telling me that you’re guest lecturing about the life and times of Kenneth Galbraith!
Ha!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I swear I typed on John K. G. but the dang editor ate the "John!"
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Great Post...........
I have been against Bryant from the start and I never wanted Denver to draft him. I am a McClain fan but even if we trade Marshall I would rather see us draft a Golden Tate or Demarius Thomas.
C'mon draft! I am ever the optimist! What a fun time of year!
+1
I, too, have been dead set against Bryant, I hope, I hope, I hope that McD will not draft this guy. At least not at 11. I would be extremely happy with McClain or Iaputi or a trade back, if possible. I think every team is looking to trade back.
It would be nice, should a rookie pay scale go in to effect, that the really talented players are drafted by the talent needy teams. And instead of teams trying to trade back, they’ll be trying to trade up.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
by Jason Witte on Mar 17, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Seems like Tate is suddenly getting a lot of love. Why do you think this is? the ND connection?
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
He had a lot of good moments this season.
Even on a mediocre Irish team. I personally think Clausen owes Tate a pretty big thanks. I don’t follow the combine all that closely…how has Tate been doing there?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
I know Tim Lynch has a man-crush on him, so I think he did quite well!
Sorry, Tim. I’m just sayin’…..haha
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
hahahahhahah
Tim, would you like to offer a rebuttal?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
I have nothing against Dez Bryant except....
that I feel there are players better suited to the Broncos than him. The draft is deep this year and it wouldn’t surprise me if you see one of the impact defensive players go for our first pick, then a slew of “playmakers”.
All I know is I am ready for the draft. Bring it on!!!
it wouldn’t surprise me if you see one of the impact defensive players go for our first pick, then a slew of "playmakers".
We need too much O Line help to go that route. We are desperate at C and also need to address G & T depth.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Wow, definitely an eye-opener
McX I’m sure is aware of the downside to this guy and will likely pass on him in the draft. His negatives seem to far outweigh his positives.
Thanks Dude.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Thanks, as always HP, for reading, even when you might not agree.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
You bet
Except…I agree with you. Just say no to Dez is our motto!
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
DB=TO=NO WAY!
There are way too many talented wide receivers in this draft to worry about a problem child! If McD selects him at #11, I’ll eat my hat…NO WAY!
Great analagy and nice write up
Bryant is too risky for my blood. If Marshall is traded, however, all bets are off. The fan pressure to get a replacement for the pro-bowl wideout could weigh heavily on McDaniels. If we trade Marshall, and get no receivers in return, and get a draft pick below 15, I could see rather unlikely scenario where Josh goes against his normal M.O. and drafts a character risk like Bryant with one of the picks.
Again, great article. Rec’d.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Um, when was the last time fan pressure got to McX?
by Chibronx on Mar 17, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Or, when was the first time?
I like it that McD has an assistant tasked with reading and listening to fan feelings. Sometimes, that assistant will even mention stuff to him, if he asks. From what I’ve read, he doesn’t ask much and the assistant doesn’t see much as important. This is also true of pundits and commentators. No wonder some of them don’t like him – he doesn’t feel a need to take them seriously.
Great article, TJ, Rec’d! I’ve been following the Dez Bryant issue for a while now and had come to the conclusion that Denver is better off without him. He’d have difficulty with the kind of expectations that McD has for the players.
By the way, drafting is about talent? Only partly. Since the 1940’s and the first NFL scout, Eddie Korval, recognizing character has always been a big part of the best drafting skills. It was part of the 1st computer program for drafting players, too, and it’s been a major part of the NE and ATL systems of drafting, the two that Xanders and McD were involved in before coming to Denver. Another simplistic explanation bites the dust. Thanks, TJ
It all starts with the lines
Excellent points Em
I noticed the same thing. McX are a perfect match come draft day….I found some interesting things in my studies of the NE and ATL draft histories while the two were on those teams staffs.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Do I see a post coming?
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
I'm not suggesting McDaniels often lets pressure get to him
I’m suggesting that nothing is absolute, including his ability to withstand pressure.
No matter how it should be, or even how we want things to be, perception, at some point, counts for something. If McDaniels doesn’t win this year, after trading away a 2nd young pro-bowler in as many years, he’ll have some major explaining to do. He’ll have less explaining to do if he can show that this trade actually produces dividends.
I’m very aware that most won’t agree with what I’m saying here. Most believe McDaniels would never allow pressure to influence his decision. But again, nothing is absolute.
Managers, CEO’s, Presidents, Owners, every decision maker from top to bottom, at times, must take into account outside perception and pressures. Because you can’t win if you don’t have a job. And you’ll easier lose your job if you, in your rookie years, brush off outside perception as being absolutely irrelevant.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
If by outside perception
you mean the junk the MSM spews or what the DP posters have to say, then I believe that yeah, it is absolutely irrelevant to McD & the Broncos FO.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
By outside perception
I’m basically saying that if he goes 8-8 again, after trading two young pro-bowlers – especially if there aren’t visible, positive results from the 2nd trade – it won’t just be MSM being mean to him. It will be the fan base, and perhaps Mr. Bowlen, also. In such a case, the trades would largely define his first two years as HC, and his third year could hinge on that perception.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
If he continues to go 8-8 and can't improve the team beyond that then it won't be outside perception that does him in.
It will be his performance.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Again...
I don’t disagree. I only think that perception of what he get in return for BM will weigh in the minds of the shot-callers above.
If they look and see a trade that ridded ourselves of a 2nd young stud (debatable), and got young “maybe(s)” in return, they would pull the fire trigger quicker…. And Mr. Josh knows that. Without a sure-fire replacement, he’ll be on the chopping block sooner than he would be for losing.
Winning takes time. But trading away your best players has immediate results. And for that, I say, McDaniels will likely care about perception.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Thanks, Alex. I hope I'm not still the party line guy! :-)
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
TJ...
Nothing is absolute :)
I’ve never seen you as a “party line” guy. In a specific occasion, I may have said it, or implied it. But it would never turn me away from great writes like this. Nothing is absolute. I hope you get what I mean, by saying I can disagree with one, and still love the other.
Again, great article.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Thanks, Dude
I really think everyone can relax. Nothing whatsoever about McX’s history and approach to date suggests that they’ll go after this guy. It’s not the Patriot way, for one. And let’s bring in the critics of last year’s draft to back up the claim: In April 2009, the team targeted good-citizen, hard-working types to a fault.
Yes, I know that Quinn had a DUI and Ayers had some incidents in his past, but everything about virtually the entire draft class goes down to them being football-obsessed, hard-working dudes.
Bfree will eat his hat if they draft Bryant. Like I’ve threatened before, I’ll make like Werner Herzog and eat my shoe.
Does ANYBOY at MHR really think they’d go after this guy? I’d like to hear from you. Even if you think McD is mad, there’s a method to his madness, and that method says he’ll steer clear of this headcase.
If they draft, Bryant, we should hold you to this, my friend!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I'm thinking a beer pairing with the shoes will go much better than wine?
Not to mention the beans!
My roots are in Denver, but my branches grew in Nebraska and my leaves fell in Lincoln.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 18, 2010 4:10 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd MUCH rather have Golden Tate
If we got say a late 1st round pick and a third for Marshall, how would everyone feel about getting Tate with the 2nd first rounder?
by black_knight101 on Mar 17, 2010 10:47 AM MDT reply actions
I would pick Tate
If we keep Marshall we will have our possession receiver, and Orton has proved he doesn’t mind going to fast smaller guys like Stokley when he needs a TD or first down. Quick guys have there place on this team.
My emptiness says it doesn't care.
by maxwellsdemon on Mar 17, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Why not Arrelious Benn
Very similar size to B Marsh, of course we wouldn’t take him in the first round. There is always the chance he could bet there in round 2 though.
by Broncanatic on Mar 17, 2010 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Excellent read TJ,
I’ve not been on the Bryant wagon at all. I do like Benn and really like Decker, although I don’t think I’d take either with the #11. Which, means you still might have a chance getting Decker in the 2nd round, but Benn would be gone. I’m not sure what I think about LaFell at this point, I’m just not as familiar with him I guess.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
#11 is an interesting spot, I agree
It’s almost trade down land, I am thinking…if we can find a partner.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
A partner at the right price would be nice,
I’d be comfortable somewhere in the mid 20’s, but I don’t see the Packers, Eagles, Ravens, Cards or Cowboys working a deal with us.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
I'll play Monopoly with you Dude, but we need to start the game soon so that the game doesn't last until three in the morning.
I couldn’t agree more with this post. Dez is a huge risk and I will be very relieved if he passes us in the draft. I hope that he does turn things around in his NFL career, but I still think the risk is too large for us to take a shot on him. Plus, McD is looking for character guys, so I don’t think that Dez is very high on his board, in the first place.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 17, 2010 11:13 AM MDT reply actions
I am a Monolpoly Master.
My winning percentage rivals that of Tom Brady before the 2005 AFC Divisional Playoffs. :P
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Mar 17, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
now if only I could translate that skill into real world success. FAIL!
lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Life would be great if it were like Monopoly. I'd be making some serious cash money off of my hotel on Broadway.
Forget college, I’ll just sit back and wait for people to land on my front steps and pay me cash.
I do prefer Risk and Settlers, though. Those are games for real men. hahaha
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 17, 2010 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm right there with you concerning Risk
Nothing gets the juices flowing quite like world domination!
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
What are going to do tonight Brain,
same thing we do everynight, try to take over the world……..
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
I've never heard of Settlers...sounds interesting.
I am also a Risk Master. I am part Diabolical Evil Genius you know.
The secret to Monopoly is to let everyone else get hard-ons for the expensive properties, while you go and nab up all the slums and put hotels on ’em. A player will never lose if they own the first three Monopolies. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
haha nice. I like to take over all the rail roads while taking over one side of the board (irrelevant which side).
Settlers of Catan board game. Look it up, buy it, play it once, and burn every Monopoly board you’ve ever used.
It’s that addicting.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 17, 2010 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Intense. I just wasted my 10,000th MHR comment talking about a board game.
No Hillis jokes, no limericks, no cutler/charger/raiders/al jokes???
I’m slacking, you guys……
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 17, 2010 8:05 PM MDT up reply actions
KB, I've played Settlers....DO NOT TAKE MY RESOURCES MAN
…or I’ll just dominate you with my biggest army strategy!
The Settlers of Catan reference with Bryant just wasn’t doing it for me. So I had to go oldschool.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
haha, that's fair, Dude. I understand.
Settlers just has so much going on that it’s difficult to relate it to other things. I think of it as risk with an economy.
Plus, it doesn’t have any fun phrases like “Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars”. Monopoly was absolutely the right choice in this post.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 18, 2010 7:10 AM MDT up reply actions
You just fulfilled one addiction by talking about another addiction
That’s no waste my friend :~)
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
haha, this is true. I guess it's better to be addicted to MHR and settlers than many of the other things that others are addicted to.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 19, 2010 7:13 AM MDT up reply actions
C'mon, anybody play the old Oregon Trail computer game in school?
“Nick has died of cholera. Again.”
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
by ncm42 on Mar 17, 2010 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was more of a death by typhoid guy, myself......
It was a great way to pass the time in 3rd period, though.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 17, 2010 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice
It is out there on the interwebs for those of you missing it…you can run it in dosbox if I remember right. Way fun for those of you looking for a bit of nostalgia
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
AWESOME!
How about Where in the World is Carmen San Diego (blecch)? There was a random thoughts email that said something like:
If Carmen San Diego and Waldo ever had a baby, that kid would pretty much be completely invisible.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Why, I believe you referenced the first playoff game Tom Terrific ever lost!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Agree
I will be disappointed if they draft Bryant, for the reasons articulated in your column.
by Baltimore Bronco on Mar 17, 2010 11:18 AM MDT reply actions
Great info TJ. Thanks.
Personally I don’t think that the Broncos will most likely ever draft a receiver in the first round under McDaniels and Xanders. Most definately not Bryant at 11. I just don’t believe that they value receivers that highly in their system. Maybe if they were drafting in the last 8 picks, but I think that they would take Pouncey there because he wouldn’t last to the second round.
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
Maybe the year after we win the SB (aka next year [knock on wood]) we will take a 1st rnd WR :~)
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
+1
My assessment: McX doesn’t do WR in first round. Adequate WRs can be had in later rounds. The O-line and QB can make otherwise pedestrian WRs great (but no, not spectacular. You don’t need spectacular at WR to win in the NFL though). Didn’t Gaffney have a monster day in that last game against KC? We don’t need to waste a first round pick on guys for the benefit of SportsCenter’s Top Ten Plays.
thanks disc! By the way, love the avatar!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
anytime, wisco....no hay problema
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
WRs in general and Bryant in particular
Drafting a WR in the 1st round is bad business.
As you have so admirably demonstrated the majority of 1st round WRs fail outright and the vast majority never live up to expectations. Several positions fair much better in the 1st round including LB, OL and S.
I believe it is too easy to fall in love with potential, WRs are often the most athletic players and it is easy to fall in love with a combination of blazing speed, great size and superb agility, but if the instincts, the work ethic, the technique or the willingness doesn’t come with that package you almost certainly end up like Matt Millen, with a bowl of fail.
Bryant to me is a huge risk, he does have upside, but he looks and smells like a bad apple, you are looking at paying the man about the same as what Michael Crabtree got last year, and while Crabtree came with some issues, they are nothing compared to Bryant. Crabtree was known to be a player, he plays hard and wants to improve, while he did have some personality issues, he wasn’t blatantly stupid enough to lie to the organization that enabled him to play football.
Bryant is someone who WILL be late for practice, he will not give a great effort in camp, he will sooner or later skip voluntary workouts and minicamps, he will bail on his team during a game and he will lie to his coach and GM. That is the not the kind of guy you want to be giving more than 10 millions in guaranteed money.
If we can get through the 1st round of the draft this year without picking up Bryant, that will be a good 1st day of work.
by gyldenlove on Mar 17, 2010 11:38 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Completely agree
I would’nt touch Bryant with a 10 foot pole. He has pushed back his Pro Day twice to the best of my knowledge. Byant’s a 1st round talent but because of the risk invovled should go in the 2nd round. I think it would send a message to these kids if the one’s with questionable character dropped like a rock on draft day.
Well stated gyldenlove
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
McD
Does anyone else get the feeling McD feels the same way about WRs that Shanny felt about RBs? You can stick anyone who fits the system in there, they don’t need to be “stars”.
I think he feels this way about almost every position. Roster depth and talent spread evenly across all positions as the ideal team base. When you have this you can pursue stars, or better, find guys within your roster and develop them into stars.
"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton
by odarol on Mar 17, 2010 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
No I don't think so
I believe is looking for a particular skill set which is outside what most of us look at. But, that makes it look like he believes he can plug anybody in that he wants.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
To that end...
How many first round Quarterbacks has he had the chance to work with?
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
I don't have anything against drafting Bryant
I just can’t stand the fact that people use trading Brandon Marshall as the reason for it. It’s not a legitimate mock draft if you assume Marshall is gone when he’s not. Nobody assumes Vincent Jackson is going to be gone when mocking for the Chargers, or Miles Austin for the Cowboys.
I have always liked Dez Bryant. The new developments are a red flag, to be sure, but I still think this guy is going to be a fine pro player. First round receivers are far from a sure thing, but you’d be hard pressed to find a position rather than maybe offensive line that has a decent success rate in the first round of the draft.
You talk about paying Dez Bryant $18-20 million dollars to play wide receiver when you won’t pay it to Brandon Marshall, and I think you have a good point. I’m not worried about him showing up to games or practice or whatever, though what he did in college would indicate that you should be. I think Golden Tate fits what we’re looking for better anyway, but I would not harp on the McX regime if they picked up Bryant.
If you could trade down in this draft and still pick the guy up though, I might consider it strongly.
Great article, TJ
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 17, 2010 12:07 PM MDT reply actions
I couldn't agree more with the analysis with Marshal
If we wanted a huge risk and immature WR, we’d just keep the one we have. Also, it’s lacking of fundamental logic that we would ship off a proven diva to replace him with a younger dive WR. Why doesn’t that logic permeate more articles I see online.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions
A note on V. Jackson
His next trial will be in April – a guilty verdict could lead to a major suspension. Gosh, does any of that sound interestingly familiar? No movement on him, either.
It all starts with the lines
Get the kid a snickers bar and he'll be good to go.
Some team is going to take the risk on Bryant and possibly come out huge with him, but I doubt it will be Denver unless he falls to the #45 pick (which is highly unlikely). This reminds me a lot of when Randy Moss was drafted. He too was passed up until the late 1st round. I’m not saying Bryant is the next Moss, but there are similarities.
Personally I think Golden Tate is the (big name WR) guy to go after. He will likely get picked up before we get the chance though. Also WR Eric Decker from Minnesota is a guy I hope we pursue. Very good work ethic, Big, Strong, Not Afraid to go up the middle, and the smartest player in this years draft. He could be had possibly in the 3rd or 4th.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make a new one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Mar 17, 2010 12:07 PM MDT reply actions
yeah i think if Tate dropped to 45 somehow we would take him
with or without Marshall
by black_knight101 on Mar 17, 2010 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Great Article Dude!
No way we draft this kid with #11. I’m not even worried that McX is considering it.
Excellent argument and superb presentation of your position.
Big ole Rec, for sure!
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
Thanks, c style. Wasn't sure how everyone stood on Bryant.
Was surprise how many people are considering the “character” issue.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Great Article
If you are looking for a team that prioritizes this thinking, don’t look in the NFL. The new ownership of the Tampa Bay rays have been the embodiment of this philosophy. They’re a great story too. A couple of Wall Street investors that love baseball and figured team building should follow the same general investment strategy. 1. thorough research into life of a prospect 2. “Buy low sell High” (that means you don’t risk money you don’t have too, only take blue chippers high, or trade down) 3. don’t be afraid to lose great polished talent if you can receive more raw talent 4. Run away from needless risk. This whole article is focused on 4, and well done but there is even more to it to master the correct investment strategy here.
Hey, at least one of my Bronco teams can Hoist a championship trophy this year! Fiesta bowl champs 2010! woohoo!
by Welcome2Boise on Mar 17, 2010 1:05 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
I forgot one more thing they mentioned
5. Invest in “your” players. You won’t ever get a return on something you buy and then just expect results. (Ahem, Mangini, Ahem) You spend the time and money and emotions to develop both player and person.
Hey, at least one of my Bronco teams can Hoist a championship trophy this year! Fiesta bowl champs 2010! woohoo!
by Welcome2Boise on Mar 17, 2010 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Boise = Truth
I’m giving you a rec back. This is exactly what I think the Pats have mastered, in general. It’s not exactly Moneyball, it’s just thinking about maximizing value and avoiding risk.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I'll put a ditto on that.........
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
ABSOLUTELY "NO" ON DRAFTING BRYANT
He is not even the best receiver in the draft. All of you guys want to run Marshall out of town with his 100 catches and the proven production and draft a lazy a$$ future troublemaker raised in a home that his mom was selling drugs to undercover cops. Are you nuts?. Please let’s use the #1 pick to draft a quality player / leader and get the best receiver in the draft with a later round pick: the monster from Georgia Tech Demaryius Thomas.
What's the opportunity cost?
What’s the safest position to draft in the first round? You’ve let it be known that we should trade down and acquire more picks, but if that’s not an option, then what?
by legendarywalton on Mar 17, 2010 1:18 PM MDT reply actions
Walton, first, stop asking me hard questions,man.
I think Jeremy Bolander might have that information, but, and I hope my memory serves me, but I think the safest is the OL, so yes, trading down would be perfect. But let’s say your premise is true, and that’s not an option. Honestly, if I had to, I would rather reach for a OL at 11 than draft a high risk – high reward guy because I know my investment will at least have some payback. Just good risk management.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Pass.
No thanks to the first round wideout idea. I didn’t like the idea before but now that you pointed out that dez is flexible on coming to games… no deal. He does have a nice highlight package* though.
(*Highlight package not to be confused with Mail sack.)
As a guy that was at least...
…straddling the Bryant bandwagon, I can attest to his obvious talent. I live smack in the middle of OSU Cowboy territory, and he is definitely as special of college player as they come. If he can make the transition to pro ball, he is going to be a heck of a player for somebody. Yet after reading the PFW feature on him, its hard to conclude that he is even on the Broncos’ board…or that he’s going to be successful in that transition. Though I’ve never heard the slightest inkling that he is a bad kid, per se, it sounds like he lacks the discipline and maturity to appeal to McX. His documented learning disability probably doesn’t help. Here’s hoping he works out for somebody else, preferably in the NFC.
That said, even if Marshall stays (and I’m rooting for ‘he does’), Denver needs to address the position relatively early in the draft. I’m hoping that D. Thomas, T. Price and J. Ford are on the Broncos radar. I’m convinced that the lack of a vertical threat ails this offense almost as much as an under sized interior line…and certainly far more than the guy playing QB. Trying to run this system on a clogged field is like trying to run a diesel engine on vegetable oil— it falls well short of ideal.
I look forward to your work every week, T.J. Thanks again.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 17, 2010 1:34 PM MDT reply actions
$4 Million
The quotation never said what you get for that $4 million.
If it buys me a company that has a valuable IP, I invest my $4 million, fire the management, hire new guys, repackage the company, reestablish positive revenue, and sell the company for a profit in 2 years. Done & done. Turnaround guys do it all the time.
So it’s a weird analogy…
The better analogy would be regarding “cost of equity” — in other words, what am I giving up to invest my $4 million that might get a much better return elsewhere? In the case, is it worth giving $18 million to Dez Bryant, or $18 million to a much more responsible player who fits the culture and scheme of the team. If Dez Bryant was in the last year’s draft, his value would be higher because the “alternative investments” were much worse than this year.
But he’s not in last year’s draft. I’m optimistic McXanders will stay away from this guy for a host of reasons (Re sources, Dez is being denounced by ANONYMOUS sources — whether it’s 1 person or 15, unless you know their motives, you’re just making guesses if you’re basing judgments on what other people say — how do you know, for example, they aren’t scouts of other teams trying to drive down Dez’s perceived value? You don’t.)
Jvill, good point, I assumed he meant the life of the contract, but he could have meant
$4 million a year. Not sure.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Not many teams have completely avoided drafting a WR in the first round over the past 10 yrs
but New England was one of them. McDaniels (or Belichick rather) hasn’t ever drafted a WR #1. That’s probably consistent with his draft philosophy and I don’t see it changing it this year. Good post.
by Dorado on Mar 17, 2010 2:34 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Excellent Post TJ. Thanks
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
Thanks, FF, when you make it to my post, I know I've succeeded.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
hahahaha, you know, I hadn't thought about it, but you are correct, sir!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Two contradictory points
- - I am generally opposed to drafting WRs high for a couple of reasons, one being that they often develop ego problems that negatively affect the team and its chances of winning big.
- - I was opposed to the Vikings (grew up in Minnesota) taking Percy Harvin in the first round, for two reasons – he was a WR and he was reported to have “personallity issues”.
I was wrong on Harvin, at least so it appears. From reports he’s a pretty consciencious worker at practice and a likeable teammate. I sometimes wonder about the report of “personality issues”.
by ivanthenotsobad on Mar 17, 2010 3:21 PM MDT reply actions
God Bless NFL Network
I say this in spite of the rampant idiocy of tools like Jamie Dukes. With the analysis of geniuses such as Michael Lombardi, Brian Billick, Marshall Faulk (he has repented of anti-Bronco sentiments, so I forgive him) and Mike Mayock and the combine, we who love the NFL have more knowledge than we ever have. Through the Combine, I watched numerous illustrious athletes and young men improve their draft stock but I watched Dez Bryant, in turn, look like a fool. He is not what this organization is looking for but I’m sure some stupid team will roll the bones on him
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 17, 2010 3:28 PM MDT reply actions
Confession: I LOVE Dez Bryant (As A Pro Prospect)!
Here’s a sampling of my case for Dez Bryant behind the scene!
Maybe I’m missing something about Dez Bryant, because I think he’s easily one of the top ten prospects in this draft. Seriously, he’s Michael Crabtree (though slightly bigger and perhaps slower) but he can also return kicks at an elite level; how is that not a top ten pick? Sure, he has some character issues but nothing major…
Bryant might not “care much about what he’s doing […] care much about customer service, their product, employee relations, employee performance or leadership” BUT he doesn’t just have the proverbial “upside”, he has as much of a proven track record as anyone despite basically not being allowed to play as a senior. The guy isn’t just “upside” like Darius Heyward-Bey who was a track star that wore a football costume. He doesn’t struggle to make the catch; he makes the acrobatic ones with ease. He is both an elite WR and an elite KR in the same package. Sure, he’s immature and potentially lazy, but he hasn’t broken the law or anything like that. If people are willing to believe that guys like Brandon Marshall can “grow out of” things like dysfunctional relationships that straddle the law, cavorting with criminal elements and demanding trades, why can’t guys like Dez Bryant learn to show up on time for practice and games? How many college kids are late to or skip class, but do better in a professional environment? I just don’t get it…
Bryant is a rare specimen, regardless of his work ethic. He’s still 6’2, 225 lbs. and most likely runs the forty yard dash in the mid-4.5’s. Despite his shenanigans, he still managed to rack up 87 catches for 1480 yards and 19 TD, plus 24 kick returns for 405 yards, 2 fair catches and 2 TD as a sophomore in 2008. That’s the same ammount of TD and 315 more yards in 10 fewer receptions than fellow sophomore Michael Crabtree posted in the same division of the same conference in the same season despite playing in an offense that threw the ball about half as often (314 to 626 passing attempts). Through a mere three games as a junior (including non-conference match-ups against eventual 8-5 Georgia and 10-4 Houston), he had 17 catches for 323 yards and 4 TD, plus 5 kick returns for 154 yards and 1 TD. Despite being over a quarter of the completions, almost half of the yards and three quarters of his team’s passing TD – and everyone everywhere knowing this – he still got his! If that’s what the kid is capable of while being so lax about his craft, then sign me up for his prime as a pro when you take him in the upcoming NFL draft.
I get people being weary of his type, his position and even him personally, especially when you consider him in the first third of the first round and coming to an organization like the Denver Broncos. That said, his talent is undeniable and his production speaks for itself. If he continues as he has been, he’ll still be a star in the NFL. I don’t think that his chances of worsening are any greater than those of him maturing. I have an easier time seeing him getting some minor discipline from his team as a wake-up call than I do envisioning him become a sunk cost for the team that drafts him in the first round in this draft.
I’m not saying “draft him, even before McClain, Williams, and/or all others”; what I am saying is that it’s not wise to overlook him because he’s immature or potentially lazy. He has a proven track record on the field, he has impressive measurables and he doesn’t have major character concerns like a criminal record or any precursors to that. I just fail to see why anyone, the Broncos included – regardless of what happens to Brandon Marshall – should ignore him. I, for one, would not be disappointed if he’s asked to wear our orange and blue next season…
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
by ejruiz on Mar 17, 2010 3:29 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
EJ, LOL, I'll let some of the others debate you on this one.
Now with my money, my friend. That’s all I’m sayin….
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
HA!
Well, not with my money either, but that’s just because I would have to first make all those millions just to afford him and I don’t currently have much use for a professional WR. Seriously though, your use of Pro Bowl selections as a line of demarcation was odd, as it put a handful of very good WR and even more debateable ones on the “wrong” side…
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
EJ, as I said, two "staffers" debating in a thread really isn't my cup of tea
Didn’t know there was a “wrong” or a “right.”
Feel free to debate it as much as you’d like however. Sounds like you have a pretty good feeling for it.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Remember another WR who fits everything you've written about Dez?
Randy Moss fell to the Vikings in the draft and then had a monster first year only to revert to bad character issues and end up in Oakland (poetic justice is such fun). Now he’s with the Patriots and can be a game changer in the right situation. However the character issues and work habits haven’t changed all that much to my eye. Knowing what we know now would you take Randy Moss with your first pick if you were the Broncos? It’s a tough call isn’t it?
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
I wouldn't take him
We’d be MIN in that situation, where Moss was a great player, but caused too many distractions. He didn’t have a ring to show for it there either. I would rather let some other team draft the Diva and then sign them cheap when they’ve fallen from grace ala Moss. Marshall could be considered in the same way. The Broncos pay for the headache and Marshall finally matures and delivers on his potential on/off the field for another team.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Eh.
Randy flirted with the law and was generally worse off-the-field than Dez. That said, Moss missed all of 3 games in 7 years as a Viking, averaging 82 catches, 1,306 yards and 13 TD per season; I’d say that gamble worked out for them…
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
I would counter that stats are great...
but aren’t we looking for team players that will contribute to a championship. I think Moss’s issues hurt the team more than his stats contributed to a super bowl bid for MIN.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions
And I would counter to that
That it is a much greater leap of faith and logic to conclude that Moss’s off-field distractions prevented Min from winning a super bowl than to presume that Moss’s great on-field stats indicate that he had a signficant positive impact on the on-field success that they were able to achieve.
I’d take Moss. The Pats have succeeded with Moss b/c they put guys around him that get the best out of him, character wise. The Broncos don’t have to not do that, like the Vikings and Raiders did.
and I counter the counter with a counter ;)
I think Moss helped Moss with the Pats as much as NE lockerroom/leadership helped. Just like Marshall needs to help himself. We put Rod and Sharpe and leadership guys around him before, but he’s going to do what he’s going to do.
True for me to say his attitude isn’t measureable by their lack of trophies as that’s my opinion. I think it’s hard to measure what he contributes to the “team” with only measuring on-field statistics. They don’t tell the whole story of what he contributed or how he brought down the team. Rod Smith said earlier this year that he could’ve played an extra year, but didn’t want to play with “me first” players that were taking the joy out of playing the game.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions
To counter your counter counter counter
I’d put more stock into the idea of Moss maturing if he hadn’t been suspended for missing practice within the last year.
I think we need to open a counter store now. :)
I think some players respond to being humbled. We’ll see with Marshall, but the OAK stint for Moss was a humbling experience I’m sure.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 18, 2010 5:10 AM MDT up reply actions
i counter your counter store
…what we really need is a counter counter because i’m not sure what counter we’re on…
Marshall's Stats
in the past three years are historically on par with many of the all-time greats but I WANT TO WIN!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 17, 2010 6:30 PM MDT up reply actions
sorry I shoulda read down first
and then noticed I didn’t have much to add as TJ made a great point with far less words than me.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions
EJ, now that I had some breathing time, I'll put together a response worthy of your comments
You’re post was well put together. Let’s see if I can answer that one question you had about the Pro-Bowl. I used that as a marker, if you will, because Bryant was categorized as a Pro-Bowler in the Pro Football weekly piece, but I could have just as easily have chosen “starter for 4 years” or any other marker really. It was also much easier to gather the Pro-Bowl marker data than than compiling another marker. Given the expectation of a WR chosen in the 1st round, I didn’t find the Pro-Bowl marker too off the “mark.”
The truth is that neither one of us really know what will happen with Bryant. Mike Williams is the classic example of this. Many many people thought he was going to really do well in the pros. I’m still shocked he didn’t do better. My real point that I wanted to get across in the piece is that I don’t think he’s “worth the 11th” If he slides like you think he could, the contract he would sign in the 20s would be a whole lot more tolerable from a risk management standpoint.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Same can be said of Jacoby Ford
A great receiver who can handle kick returns too. The difference being the work ethic, smarts and “team first” ideology. Putting my business head on, he is going to work about better value for money based on what we know of both him and Bryant at the moment.
I have so many friends some I haven't even used yet
by BlobTheMagnificent on Mar 19, 2010 3:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Hey ponderosa
the real beneficiaries of Randy Moss were the Patriots, not the Vikings, and certainly not the Raiders. So actually, I wouldn’t have drafted Moss at #11.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Precisely because of character issues.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Me neither.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
Off topic but Seahawks just traded for Charlie Whitehurst
acquiring him from the Chargers.
Link
Chargers have no RBs and no decent backup QB at the moment. I actually like this move by the Seahawks, Whitehurst seems to have some good potential and this gives them a solid backup behind the often banged up and aging Hasselbeck.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
and they signed him with starting QB money. Big Gamble.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 17, 2010 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes indeed, good point
it is a risk, but they know how brittle Hasselbeck is. Not sure how much he has left in the tank either. So CW could very well be their starter at some point next season.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
...so who got a better deal? the Broncos getting Quinn, or the Seahawks getting Whitehurst?
This is almost laughable, how much they had to sign him and are going to have to pay him.
by black_knight101 on Mar 17, 2010 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Late to the party
so I dropped down to the bottom. Terrific post TJ. You sure didn’t slack on this one. Good premise, nice backing arguments. I’m sold. It sure would be nice if some of these kids would develop the space in between their ears. A definite Rec., and thanks.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
No problem Kaptain. We have ways of dealing with tardiness! That's it!
Your draft stock just dropped about 15 places!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Absolutely NO WAY
The broncos draft Dez Bryant, they already have Dez Bryant on their team, his name is Brandon Marshall and that hasn’t gone so well. Whether Marshall is here or not , McDaniels will not make the same mistake twice, nor will he take on dual malcontents, will not coachem, cannot win with them, will not play with them.
I am a huge fan of Marshalls talent, however I simply cannot trust his integrity, and Bryant is no better.
PASS....PASS....PASS!
While I don’t follow college players like others here, this post is very eye opening and he looks to be too much of a gamble for me. I mean if those three sources are correct then that is all I need to know. There is a phrase I hear from Chris Berman and Tom Jackson on NFL Primetime: Once is an accident, two is coincidence, and three is a trend. This is one trend I don’t like.
Interesting list of WRs that never made the Pro Bowl because I have only heard of like 12 of them and there is 33 of them on there.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
dude from a Fins Fan...
this was a kick ass article, you have awesome points
Laces out!
-2008 AFC East Champions-
Suck it Pats, Bills and most of all... the god damn jets.
Sean Smith/Vontae Davis= Pat Surtain/Sam Madison
welcome to the house
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 18, 2010 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm sure the Front Office will know exactly what did or did not happen with Bryant.
I’m sure they will contact the coaches, staff, etc at his college, and if they do draft him I will be comfortable knowing that they did their due dilligence.
Personally, I have concerns about the guy, but only based on the facts as we know them – he was suspended, I don’t like his agent, and I really don’t like Sanders as a mentor. Everything else is just heresay as far as I’m concerned, and I trust those making the decisions will do so with a much better grasp of the “facts” than I have.
2009 Season Motto: TAKE IT!! TAKE IT!! TAAAAAAAKE IT!!!!!
The best powder is pure, light, dry Colorado powder!!
Go Broncos!!!!!
First round draft picks
While I agree with every word you said about Bryant I think the ratio of first round draft picks to pro-bowl appearances is slewed because of the amount on talent taken in last year’s first round. I would genuinely expect Nicks, Crabtree and Maclin to make the pro-bowl in the next 3-4 years. That might redress the balance a little.
In the meantime there are a plethora of decent WR’s out there this year in the lower rounds should we need to reinforce the position.I will leave that to the font office to decide who and what we need.
I have so many friends some I haven't even used yet
by BlobTheMagnificent on Mar 19, 2010 3:10 AM MDT reply actions
Although I will say
Even though they haven’t been to the pro-bowl: if my starting WR consisted of Calvin Johnson, Santoni Holms and Micheal Crabtree, I wouldn’t mind.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Dez Bryant Responds to Allegations
There has been much debate about whether the Miami Dolphins should select embattled Oklahoma State star wide receiver Dez Bryant if he’s available at No. 12 in next month’s NFL Draft.
Regarded as the best receiver in the draft, Bryant (6-2 and 225 pounds) has drawn comparisons to Andre Johnson of the Houston Texans with his size, speed and athleticism, but concerns about his character have plagued the wideout.
“All of it is just rumors,” Bryant said in an interview Thursday with Orlando Alzugaray of WQAM (560-AM). "I don’t know why people are saying those things. I feel like if you’re going to write something about somebody you need to ask that person instead of writing things like that. I surround myself with positive people. I don’t have time to get into trouble. I’m trying to pursue my dream, which is to play in the NFL. … I never did anything wrong. I never committed a crime.
“It bothers me a lot,” he said. “I just had a talk with my advisor and my agent [Wednesday], and I told them that I’m not a bad person and I’m not used to people saying bad things about me. I like to make people smile. I like to bring excitement because that’s what I do, and I want to keep it that way. I don’t want a bad image. My bad image in my childhood, that is long gone. I’ve surrounded myself with bright people and I’m going to continue to stay out of trouble and move forward and play in the NFL.”
Bryant also dismissed reports that he’s shown up late for practices and games.
“I’ve never been late to a game or a practice. My freshman year, I’ve been late for a meeting. But as my career got going at Oklahoma State I [became more responsible]. I overcame a lot. Everything is positive now.”
Bryant said he believes much of the criticism he’s received stems from his suspension for lying to the NCAA about his relationship with former NFL star Deion Sanders.
“I really do feel like that’s when it started,” he said. “At the same time, I manned up for what I did wrong and told the truth. I feel like I didn’t get the credit I deserve. I know God is going to take care of the rest. That’s Ok, though. That’s in the past and I’ve moved forward. I’m just trying to do something better with my life. I just want to jump on an NFL team and make that team feel great about having me. … Whoever drafts me they’re going to get what they want out of me. I’m going to give it my all and play my hardest. I have a real strong passion for the game. I LOVE football. I’m just ready to get on the field again.”
Bryant caught 87 passes for 1,480 yards and 19 touchdowns in 2008, and scored twice on punt returns. Last season, he led the team with 17 catches for 323 yards and four touchdowns in three games before being ruled ineligible.
link
Understand your point but....
How can this argument be made using Atwater as an example measured against players who wear thin too soon? Your comment:
The NFL is littered with players, who, after their investment value wore thin, were shipped, kicked, or dumped to the curb. If it were otherwise, Steve Atwater would have finished his career a Bronco
Atwater played 10 years in Denver and made nine Pro Bowls. I would say the investment was more than worth it when comparing him to the risky players this story goes on to compare from a business viewpoint. Steve Atwater was not kicked to the curb as the story puts it. Denver knew that his age was showing and his role was decreasing. The Broncos could not, nor should have had to match what the Jets were offering. He played one more year and then retired.
The point of this story is that Football is a business, and it would be a bad business decision to have offered #27 twice his value just so he could stay and retire in Denver. Atwater went on his own decision. He had a job in Denver, but went for the money. I don’t blame him. Were the Broncos not loyal because they did not match the Jets?
“Of course not, this is business right?” The deal was good for both sides and I have no problem with it, but Steve Atwater should not be compared to the Divas that take the money and slack off. Those are the guys that get run over. Atwater never slacked off nor do I recall seeing him get run over. He was a great player and was well worth the first round pick and the high salary they paid him for ten years.
About playing against Joe Namath "He's the best in the Business, he can do everything, but I've never seen a Quarterback yet that can throw on his back." - Dave Costa 1969
by Denver Diehard on Mar 19, 2010 10:42 PM MDT reply actions
Keep B Marsh in Denver!!!
I understand some people’s concern with Dez Bryant’s character issues, but there are a lot of players in the league that have had problems in college and have since straightened themselves out and been great players (DeSean Jackson, Percy Harvin, Warren Sapp, etc.)
Concerning your argument that drafting a WR high in the draft is a risk; I’ve got to ask, “Aren’t all high draft picks a risk?” I mean it’s a 50/50 chance the guy pans out or is a bust, I just think the skill position guys are the “sexy” positions so there is more media coverage/pressure to perform.
Personally, I think McHoodie and the Broncos are insane to even consider getting rid of B Marshall; his performance and effort (on Sundays) the past four seasons has been above and beyond any other player in the organization and he should have been rewarded long ago. He’s easily our best player; he single-handedly won or kept us in multiple games last year (Dallas, NE, NYG, IND). If you thought the Broncos fizzled last year; just wait until we don’t have him, Orton will look like the disaster he was in Chicago and we’ll be lucky to win five games!!!
Why hasn’t anyone floated the idea of keeping B. Marsh, drafting Dez and running 3-4 WR sets ‘till the cows come home!?! Last year we were 6-0 because we spread teams out and dominated them. Imagine B Marsh and Dez on the outside with Jabbar and Eddie in the slots; talk about a dominant WR corps, no team in the NFL would have the DB’s to cover that!!! For a supposed offensive mastermind who made his name with a dominant WR corps(see Randy Moss/Wes Welker/Stallworth) and QB, I think McHoodie is pretty damn arrogant to think he’ll be successful without B.Marsh and with Orton and our smallish WR’s as replacements.
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