I agree with the receiver and the o-line part. And i agree with the part of Brady beating out Orton in the beginning of the season. But Orton is NOT a beast. And we will not finish the season with Orton. But great post!

second thing, don’t sell Haggan so short yet, he should be better this year. Marti can teach linebackers….other then that. I agree with you.

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying (especially with Orton/Quinn) here are some of my takes.

1. Yes, it’s very short-sighted to take a receiver early (NO DEZ BRYANT PLEASE) until Marshall is out the door (assuming that happens) but Freddie Barnes, one of my favorite receivers in the draft, just ran a mediocre 40. If he slips into the 6th, I’d like him because speed isn’t his game – he’s a good route runner, receiver, and he’s physical underneath. I love Gaffney and have faith in Royal/McKinley, but neither are natural slot receivers. Royal is great with the ball in his hands – but he doesn’t have the technique yet to get open in traffic. McKinkley is very quick and a goo route-runner – but not very physical. I agree this shouldn’t be a priority, but never say never.

2. I’ve drank Kyle Orton’s Jungle Juice (Kyle never serves his Kool Aid straight) more than most – but the only thing beastly about him is his neck beard. He’s smart, calm, and tough which is why he’s a locker room favorite and why I think there won’t be the much-heralded competion between he and Quinn and why I think Orton (assuming he steadily improves year to year) could be the present and future. Calling him a beast though will just get you teased around these parts (even though I secretly agree with you.)

3. Agreed with O-Line. I want to see a more smash-mouth brand of football this year from us, and it starts up front. Still, unless we trade back (which will be harder than we think – I think) I would be shocked if it’s addressed in Round 1. At the same time, I’d also be shocked if 2 of our first 4 picks weren’t on a G/T and starting center.

4. You lose me a little with the Davis/Haggan argument. Davis faded late in games – but he was also overplayed. These two were a major contributors in our defense making a quick improvement. What happens in the draft I think depends largely on the rest of free agency. Assuming Haggan moves inside (Champ eluded to this the other day) I’d like to see a situational rusher to take snaps behind Doom and Ayers. Whatever happened to Jason Babin? Derrick Burgess was a bust in New England, but what about a smaller role here? I loved McClain, but he worries me now at #11. I don’t really like players like Weaterspoon, Spikes, Butler, Chaney, Lee, etc value wise. I think we could grab a player in Rounds 4-6, sit them behind Haggan for a year – and make a starter out of him. Off the top of my head, I like Phillip Dillard of Nebraska and Roddrick Muckelroy of Texas. Micah Johnson depending on his knees.

Did I mention rec’d?

I was going to post a reply that sounded something like this " Orton is a beast. Period " WOW! But obviously their were several others who felt the same way. Comparing these two is very interesting considering the paths their both taking. I agree that Quinn wasnt good while he stayed in Cleveland but I feel the same way about Kyle the beast Orton. Ortons numbers while in Chicago werent the most glamorous. Neither one of these guys had much to work with, talent wise or coaching wise. Yes, Kyle the beast Orton did have his best year statistically under Mcd’s watch, so my question to you is this. What makes you think that BQ cant do the same? IMO he has way better tools so well just have to see. Ortons a beast period, that was funny.

“Orton is a beast. Period.” That is a stretch.

Beast status is reserved for guys like Payton, Brees, Brady and Farve.

Top 10 status is reserved for guys like Rivers, Big Ben, Rodgers, McNabb, Flacco and Romo (maybe Ryan, Schaub).

Orton hasn’t played his way into either category.

good up until that. I don’t need to speak on this since it was already covered… would be fun to take a poll and see how many feel Orton is a Beast, since we have had a poll on about everything else under the sun….Other than that little comment, I agree with you, great post

vocabulary. Maybe Plummer and Orton should fight eachother with theirbeastly beards to see who’s the most unbeastly beast. K, done. I hope Orton does well, I know he’s our best shot next year against a lesser schedule then the one we played last year, defense wise anyway. I really hope our offense gets on track. Miss that.

I just have this feeling that unless McD trades into the second – we will not see a OLman until the third round pick…

You are spot on about the line though…I just think we’ll hit paydirt in the later rounds at the OG and C positions.

I just want to say that whether others see him as beast like you do, I love your conviction. I also see him as Jake 2.0 because of his leadership, love of the game, hard work. Jake did have a way of creating some miraculous finishes and disaster ending drives where as Orton is a bit more steady and plodding, but I can see dots connecting the two.

I wouldn’t take Dez Bryant in the 4th round, personally. He’s a classic example of a young man with tons of natural ability and an utter disconnect in his lack of any visible sense of personal responsibility. I tend to suspect that we’ll be keeping Marshall anyway, but even if he’s gone, there are higher caliber players when you balance natural skill with the ability to function as part of a team. I do have compassion for Bryant’s early life experience, but the question at hand is about his value as a member of the team and in that vein, he’s a very poor risk.

Quinn is a long way from challenging anyone for a starting job. College doesn’t matter at this point – as a pro, he’s very inconsistent at things that are not due to WRs or OL. The love fest if he did start would last right up to the first mistake, just as it tends to with Orton. Happily, Orton improved greatly last year and will probably do so again. It’s impossible to ignore the simple, well-documented fact that good players with more experience together tend to improve. Some of the black/white discussion of late regarding the question of how long it takes to learn an entire new system have missed the equally important question of how long it takes to get everyone on the same page and to learn each other’s tendencies. There’s a good reason that playoff teams usually have a nucleus of players who have been together for a while.

As far as the OL, I agree with how important it is. Can the best picks for our scheme be found after the 1st round? In many cases, that’s quite possible. Much as many aren’t aware of it, scarcity does come into the BPA approach to drafting – Colinski has done great comments breaking down how much people misunderstand what BPA actually refers to. They are worth a review for those who aren’t familiar with them.

Davis did wear down late in games and later in the season. His position is designed to have offensive players funneled into it – he should have been in the top 3 tacklers on the team. The fact that he was isn’t a full or reasonable analysis of his value or productivity. I think that bringing him in was a good move – he did a lot to mentor some of the younger players. I also think that letting him go was a good and classy move – he had a chance to move on, and I wish him all the best in Buffalo. It’s mildly ironic that this is where we obtained Haggan from – and it will be more ironic if we move Haggan to ILB. He has the tools for it.

Thanks for the article – well done – and thanks to all for the comments. Be well.

One of the best posts, as I see it, in a long time. Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! Orton’s a Beast! With a neck Beard!

We don’t need go out and draft the best wide receiver. I don’t think that spending one of our picks on a reciever would hurt though. It’s a position you can always look to snare a diamond in the rough.

I tink Kyle Orton will only get better, however, he’s not quite as mobile as Quinn. This could be his downfall as he may be more likely to get injured during a sack or while scrambling, ala last season.

O-line is definately what we need to address immediately. DLine, we could still add some young depth to learn and grow into as we’ve currently addressed these positions in the short term with 30-something vets.

In conclusion, we better see Oline and Dline quite often picked throughout the draft with a smattering of skill players here and there like a wide reciever, a linebacker and a DB.

GO BRONCOS!!!

I agree, Kyle is a beast! I need to re-watch the Giants game. Was Kyle in the grill of Osi Umenyiora or Justin Tuck?

By the way…

“and going into the season without a starting caliber center may just cause us a few problems.”

Greatest sentence (fragment) ever.

Cali; Good analysis and agree Orton will come out blazing next season. Quinn will need most of the year before he is ready to display his talents. I hope Quinn isn’t forced into play because of injury to Orton. With the proper teaching and time to learn under McD and Orton I expect that Quinn could be the starter by 2011. I voted Orton “decent starter” could be a beast if we make the playoffs next season and make it to Conference Championship game. I kinda compare Quinn situation to Brees when he was a Charger but under the right situation Brees became one of the top 3 QB’s and is now a SB winner. Can Quinn be the 2nd best QB ever in Denver? Only time will tell I think Quinn will bring plenty of excitement back to Mile High Investco Field. Go Broncos!

….except the Beast part. :)

I think Orton’s second year in this system is where the rubber will meet the road and reveal either good or bad. Honestly, I think this year will be much better for him than last year (provided the O Line does it’s part, of course). He’ll play more on the field rather than think too much. During a lot of games last year it seems he was over thinking. I’m guessing this year he can hone the plays he has under his belt more and just play without overthinking things.

He’ll be better than all the skeptics and bashers think. Especially all this true over the top koolaid drinking like “Brady’s gonna beat him out…” and crap like that. Pure nonsense.

I really wish Orton was a beast…in fact, I really wish Orton was half the QB that many posters at MHR believe him to be….I still think the jury is out on KO….and the primary juror that I am speaking of is Coach McD….until he is utterly convinced that Orton is a beast, I think McD will continue to cast about until something really sticks….I remain hopeful that all the speculation about how good KO will be with a season in the system under his belt is correct….I am not convinced that Quinn is markedly better, and something has kept Brandstater at #3 on the depth chart…so I still see this squad as an important piece away from assembling the entire puzzle…I however agree that fixing the O-Line in advance of the arrival or emergence of our QB of the future is the smartest strategy….and perhaps with a solid O-Line, anyone of these candidates will flourish…I hope that is true!…what concerns me, though, is I find myself using the words “hope” and “hopeful” an awful lot when discussing the squad…it is the time of year when hope springs eternal, of course, but two seasons of watching the Broncos get out of the gate like a house afire only to collapse into a pile of cooling ashes makes my hopefulness come with an adjective….cautiously….as in “cautiously hopeful”…which is better I supposed than “resignedly pessimistic” which is where the Lions and tRaider fans probaly are….I’d like to see the squad improve to 10 and 6 and play their best football in November and December….that will allow me to drop the word “cautious” from my vocabulary on this matter…here’s hoping!

You’re right on about receivers and the line. Not sure if I’d call Davis and Hagan mediocre, but then again, I don’t know what I would call them. Davis was a liability in coverage, and we could improve on both of them (Ayers on the outside?) As for Orton….. I’d say he’s above average, but not quite a beast. Drew Brees is a beast. Peyton Manning is a beast. Orton isn’t up to their level.

and I love it! Ok so… my first post, lemme know if Im doing it wrong.

Orton is a beast! Give him a good running game, and that man will be unstoppable. The only way the defense can beat him will be while he is sleeping… with a stick! Brees/ Manning etc… have one thing in common.. time. The more Orton plays the more experience he’ll get, the better he will be. MARK MY WORDS, in 2010 everyone will say Orton is a beast.

Just playin man! I’m not an Orton Hater just stating he is not a BEAST! I actually don’t think I would call any qb a beast. The name BEAST should be reserved for guys like Mecklenberg, Atwater, Al Wilson, Ray Lewis, etc…….LMAO

No one argues your point that Moreno had defenders in his space all season, and the same holds true for Orton. Give him some protection and he just might convert some of the doubters.

I’ll hazard a guess and say that if there were a category between beast and decent, it would be the winning percentage….something like “Capable of leading us to the big show if the rest of the parts are functioning”. One point of note however…I believe that the offense run in Denver is VERY similar to what Quinn played in in college (Charlie Weis)…the learning curve might not be as great as you make it out. However, I think he was brought in as Simms replacement….if something better develops out of that, GREAT!

Couldn’t agree more on the OL analysis. We will be 8-8 again if we don’t fix it right now. Unless the answer at C/G is already in house, and we just can’t know that right now, then the draft is where it will have to be addressed. Our DL needs have been solidified now, so the much needed upgrade of the OL has to be our first concern right now!

Marshall will be back…he’s starting to grow up now, and he’s realizing his “worth” on the market….I’d much rather have that than a new prima donna rookie that we start the process all over again….

Just my .02 cents, but I’m stickin by it!

The truth is that he is somewhere in the middle solid started but beast is totally out of his realm so I voted noodle, not only like noodles I like the word noodle. Orton will be the starter next year.
I am in total agreement when it comes to O-line and also with the belief that help at LB is a must.
I do disagree with the belief that we can’t improve or don’t need to at WR. Stokley is going to be 34 in june. Gaffney (30)is solid and I think Royal and Marshall will both be good. But Royal is not a given. Lloydd is under 30, he will turn 29 in june and had 117 yds in two games last year. Which I don’t view as a very big contribution. McKinley is coming off of an ACL but I do like him. I Just think that it would be good to add a WR at some point during the draft. It doesn’t have to be early and I don’t want Dez (headcase) Bryant. I think that his draft stock will plumit and might not find a home intill 16 Tennessee.