Inside the Offer - Why the Broncos did what they did with Brandon Marshall
Forgive me. I have been out most of the evening and did not read the comments from the two posts prior. I have not read any insight from the Denver media nor did I read anything nationally. I am simply coming in from a night with the family and giving my opinion on why the Broncos did what they did with Brandon Marshall in terms of extending him the 1st Round Tender.
First, let's get this out of the way. I was as surprised as many of you that the Broncos didn't go for the top tender - 1st and 3rd round picks. At least initially. Until I thought about it from a business perspective, combined now with the knowledge of the Elvis Dumervil situation. With Dumervil receiving the 'high tender', it all becomes pretty clear to me.
In terms of value, you see what the Broncos are looking to do. Before we go any further, let me remind everyone of how this works. By extending a qualifying offer, all 5 of these players are Denver Broncos next year - unless the Broncos trade their tender to another team or another team signs them to an offer sheet. If signed, the Broncos would have 7 days to match or they receive the compensation described in the qualifying offer. In Brandon Marshall's case, that would be a first round pick in this year's draft.
It is obvious that Elvis Dumervil is going nowhere. I'd be shocked if any team signed Dumervil to a large offer sheet. Think about it. A team would have to go big to sign Dumervil - or risk the Broncos matching the offer - then give the Broncos a 1st and 3rd round pick in this year's draft. Sure, they could come to some agreement on compensation as well, but this makes it pretty clear that the Broncos want Dumervil and expect him to be here.
I'll say the same thing for Chris Kuper. A 1st Round pick for a Guard? Not likely.
Kyle Orton is probably in the same boat as well, though you never really know with a quarterback. I'd imagine he's not going anywhere either. Tony Scheffler is a little more complicated, but do you really see anyone giving up a 2nd Round pick for Scheff? Maybe, and if they do the Broncos should jump on it.
That leaves Marshall. I'm sure some of you are talking about respect. The business climate in the NFL right now has hardly anything to do with respect. Players are pissed, sure - many of these guys would be getting huge paydays this season - but because of the owners walking away from the CBA they are stuck. Kyle Orton and Brandon Marshall are not the only ones, so this is all part of the business of football as it stands today. The players, owners and fans need to get used to it for the time being.
What about the level of the tender? Just a first round pick? Let's go back a bit. All the Broncos have done is secure Brandon Marshall for 2010 - and at worst - repeat - AT WORST - receive a 1st Round pick. By putting the 1st Round tag on Marshall, the Broncos have included more teams in the possible bidding. A 1st and 3rd would eliminate most teams right off the bat. Why do that when the Broncos could possibly get more teams involved?? We know the Broncos aren't completely against the idea of trading Brandon Marshall, so the more teams calling Brian Xanders, the better.
Why would teams up the bidding? For the exclusive right to negotiate with Marshall without the fear of the Broncos matching the offer. Say the Ravens come the Brian Xanders and say they are going to sign Marshall to a sheet, but want the exclusivity. They could throw a 4th round pick into the deal and get Marshall's tender for a 1st and 4th. See what I mean?
How about value? Let's say Marshall does get an offer. It is obvious that the Broncos and Marshall cannot come to terms on what his value really is. Instead of fighting over it themselves, let other teams do it. Say the Ravens sign Marshall to a 3 year, $30 million offer sheet. Now the market has been set and the Broncos have two choices - match the sheet or let him leave for a 1st round pick. Get it now?
This is all about giving the Broncos options. A first round tender gives the Broncos more options - including keeping Marshall for another year - than a 1st and 3rd round tender might. The 1st Round tender simply sets the bar. No cap means the Broncos have nothing to lose when it comes to Marshall because they can match ANY OFFER. Will they? Not likely, but other teams likely won’t sign him to an outrageous offer anyway because the NFLPA is watching to make sure the owners aren’t lying about their finances.
I know many of you are going to take your shots at management over this, and that is fine. I ask that we wait and see the end result before jumping to conclusions. The 1st round tender is not a sign of disrespect - it is simply keeping control of a situation as long as they can before making a final decision. When all the angles are looked at, I think the Broncos made the right moves - now they need to finish the job, getting as much value for each player - here or elsewhere - as they possibly can.
GO BRONCOS!
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190 comments
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Comments
I agree John
This is the best situation for both sides, considering.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Thanks John
for a calm, concise presentation of what’s going on. As someone who’s just learning about the ins & outs of tenders, this is helpful.
I agree that this is giving the Broncos, and Marshall, the most options possible in an uncertain setting.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Nice to hear someone stay sane in the madness.
Do you think it may have just been a statement kind of thing to other teams saying we will listen to offers for him on the request of BM? If he does indeed want out of Denver they will accomodate that as long as they feel they got fair value? I know I feel all parties ended up happy last year. I would assume this will be no different.
Another question.
Do you feel there would be a chance we let him go even over for someone like Roy Williams?
You are now banned.
LOL.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I think that is the point in a way...
It helps the Broncos keep all of their options open. We really can’t compare this off-season to any before it because of the labor unrest. I know people think that is a copout, but it is the truth – you are not going to see the long-term contracts that we have seen in the past. Teams have no reason to do it.
-TSG
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Exactly
This was what I was trying to say in the other thread but less eloquently and far more hostily.
If you look at it, it is a win – win for Denver and Marshall.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
It's all about value.
I think the Broncos did Marshall a favor. They’ll let the market set his value. I think the Broncos will come out looking like the good guys and be able to keep him.
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King Jr.
such a great point
Perfect way to handle it.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on Mar 3, 2010 9:53 PM MST up reply actions
I don't know why people are saying it is disrespect.
The more teams that compete for Marshall, the bigger his payday!
I could see it as disrespect if
Both the Broncos and Marshall really wanted to make a deal to stay with us for the long term. But that is obviously not been presented as the case, so I see no disrespect.
I think Marshall just wants his money and doesn’t care who pays him.
I think the Broncos know Marshall is a talented player that will help any team he plays for including us.
I like the thought that the market will help determine his value – that way both sides can be happy if they reach an agreement.
First of all
Thanks John. You have put a lot of work in all these post. This one help to clear up a lot.
The unfortunate things is a lot of people here have their own opinion and can’t look past that at the overall situation. I have had the thought that the Broncos threw out some feelers at the combine and that this was the best approach for the team to take.
Just my opinion tho.
i dont mind the tender....
I just think B Marsh should be matched regardless. He is too good to let go for unproven talent. People say he can’t go vertical. He can go vertical (see thanksgiving vs the Giants) but he will also get you those tough yards the 3rd and seven over the middle catches. I will take a guy that’s willing to sacrafice his body and keep drives alive over a fast downfield type receiver any day. He is a game changer and a guy that goes hard all the time. He will give you everything he’s got as long as you treat him fairly. And personally I don’t think they have treated him fairly at all.
by CaliBroncos55 on Mar 3, 2010 9:22 PM MST via mobile reply actions
True, to a point.
Did he deserve more money the last three years? Yes! As soon as his contract was up. It is not Denver’s fault that there is no CBA this year. He has a way to see what he’s worth now. Good for him. Just don’t jump to conclusions about what The Broncos will get for him. My guess is it will be a proven player.
Brandon Marshall
should be a bronco. Period. We shouldn’t be at this point. The Broncos have treated him like some average joe. I guarantee if he goes somewhere else we will not get a player of his caliber in return regardless of if its in the draft or by trade. The player(s) we get will not be anywhere near as good. Its a shame the broncos have treated their own players so poorly but overpay for guys like chris simms as . I love the Broncos and always will win lose or draw.
by CaliBroncos55 on Mar 3, 2010 9:42 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
But, what if the Beast just wants out because of memories?
Maybe he has stated to managment that he unequivically wants out, and is involved in this decision, and even concurs that this is a way to add more teams to the talks. Certainly a lot of “what ifs”- The point is that I’m not sufficiently in the loop – Only Marshall and management know these things, and management may not be certain of Marshall’s feelings at all. So easy to opine, but so hard to wait and watch…. and so necessary to maintain hope.
BTW- the opinion regarding Broncos treating their own players poorly— this year? previous years? historically? anyone specific in mind? Just hoping for come clarification, not challenging.
This is not a direct answer
From what I’ve seen so far in newsfeed, Denver’s approach to their RFA’s seems to be pretty consistent with what other teams are doing with theirs.
I’m with John on this one that this simply seems to be a case of the teams trying to find the best balance between players and bottom lines in a highly uncertain economic atmosphere.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Everyone
is so concerned with the fact that they feel management is handling this poorly that they fail to even consider what is Brandon Marshall’s desires. Believe me, there is a reason Pat Bowlen is considered one of the best owners in all of sports. They are not disrespecting BM with this move. They are respecting him. He either gets the payday he has been wanting from us or someone else or he gets to run from the demons that have been haunting him since DWills death. Not sure which speculation is correct. I can be persuaded to them both. I know he loves the Broncos as an organization, just not sure he feels safe playing there. Time will tell his feelings for Denver as a city. This to me will determine if he stays or goes. If he wants out, Bowlen will accomodate that by getting the most we can in return. If he wishes to stay, we have allowed him to shop himself around and will pay him fair market value. He has earned this. I wish him well whatever his choice may be, no matter what I feel is in the best interest of the Broncos.
by Digger24 on Mar 4, 2010 7:04 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
when i say poorly
I mean the cutler situation. Marshall not being rewarded, paxton getting a pretty nice deal for being a long snapper. I mean I understand the whole CBA situation but you have to pay someone that is putting his health on the line and accomplishing the feats that B Marsh has. Maybe I’m just so used to seeing happy players from when Shanny was here. But how would you feel if your employer paid you minimum wages and you were doing a lot more than what someone getting minimum wages would be required to do? Its just kinda like a slap in the face IMO
by CaliBroncos55 on Mar 4, 2010 8:50 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
But it probably wouldn't be an issue...
…if Marshall didn’t have a history of ‘slapping’ other people in the face…or milking injuries…or pouting when coached hard, etc.
It’s funny, because it seems like the only place Marshall is a sympathetic figure is within the Broncos fan base— more specifically, within the element of the Broncos fan base who coincidently aren’t MacDaniels fans. Outside that group, pretty much everybody seems to agree that this is one tough dude to throw a lot of money at.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 4, 2010 8:58 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He played half a season with a injured hip
That was the reason they said they didn’t want to pay him, they were unsure if he was healthy. Then he tries to stay healthy so he can get paid and the knock him for that. Its simple. We all like the Broncos for what the players do not because the coach is coo. We all fell in love with the broncos because of players. they need their fair shake as well. The buisness side of the NFL goes both ways
by CaliBroncos55 on Mar 4, 2010 9:19 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I tend to believe that BM...
…was probably a couple weeks away from his dream contract until Week 17. The dude has repeatedly soiled his own bed.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 4, 2010 9:33 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Mar 4, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
For less than what the old long snapper was making!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didnāt rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
and for a longer contract!
we are set at longsnapper until 2014. If we don’t make that move last year we are trying to resign our LS this year, and teams like Cincinnatti would be HIGH bidders.
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 4, 2010 11:49 AM MST up reply actions
Folks will continue to complain about Paxton...
but thats because we haven’t had the misortune of having a Trey Junkins ruin our playoff aspirations, or the long-snapper for the Bengals in ’05 that botched the snap at the end of the game against Denver.
Then again, I bet no one even remembers those guys. They were just long-snappers, right?
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
So....
If no one offers anything to marshall then what? do we wait 7 days and then he becomes just a regular RFA? or what?
I think if no one offers the required tender, then he stays a Bronco at the current first round tender pay scale...
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
But the Broncos retain the option to trade him?
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
Yes but
Then Marshall can hold out which he and many RFA should and will.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 3, 2010 9:44 PM MST up reply actions
no they won’t — they need their $
the player’s association isn’t going to have their players hold out before a year that might not exist. You think Marshall has saved any of the money he has? You think he can go two straight years without getting paid?
I didn't mean
To hold out the entire year but I expect many hold outs for training camp.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 4, 2010 7:30 AM MST up reply actions
Well said
I think the union will pressure RFA’s, and perhaps others, to stay out of optional stuff (OTA’s) as sort of a dry run, flexing their muscles to intimidate for a 2011 lockout.
Some guys could hold out of TC also, but I really doubt any of our guys would (BM not necessarily included).
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
It is all a waiting game now.
Denver and Marshall will find out how much other teams think he is worth. That way Marshall can’t say the Broncos aren’t giving him what he is worth. As I have said before I hope he doesn’t go anywhere.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Doesn't Marshall have the leverage?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but when Marshall signs the tender offer sheet thing, whatever, he becomes essentially a free agent. Is it hte Broncos who negotiate with other teams, or Marshall?
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
Marshall
But a team might talk to the Broncos because they fear they will lose the bidding war or they might negotiate a trade so Denver doesn’t have the right to match the offer.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 3, 2010 9:38 PM MST up reply actions
but if they negotiate a trade
The trade would be between Den and the other team. Denver still has the leverage there.
No...
If he signs an offer sheet, essentially agreeing to compensation, the Broncos can match it. If they do, they take over whatever the agreement was that Marshall signed with the other team. If they don’t match it, the Broncos get a 1st Round pick.
Now, the reason I think the 1st Round tender was the way to go is options. The Broncos will now listen for offers for Marshall. Teams know the Broncos will likely match any fair offer, and since there is no cap, teams can’t load a contract with a ‘poison pill’ – see Steve Hutchinson with Minnesota. Because of that, a team might negotiate further compensation with the Broncos, say, a 1st and 4th round pick, in order to take the tender from the Broncos, thus taking over Marshall’s rights. The team could then negotiate with Marshall on their terms. Think of Matt Cassel in KC. The Chiefs traded for Cassel, and inherited his Franchise Tag in the process. They then renegotiated an extension for him.
A similar deal was Wes Welker. The Dolphins placed a 2nd round tender on Welker. The Patriots leaked that they were going to sign him to a huge offer sheet, one they knew the Dolphins would not match. Instead of losing him for nothing, the Dolphins and Patriots got together and worked out a deal. The Patriots sent a 2nd and 7th round pick to Miami, got the rights to Welker, then signed him to a contract much less that had been leaked.
Both teams win.
The Broncos are likely trying to do the same type of thing.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
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by John Bena on Mar 3, 2010 9:44 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
So
My scenario of a first, fourth, and fifth from Seattle is still in play technically?
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 3, 2010 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
Definitely...
Seattle could say we will give Denver 1st, 4th and 5th in exchange for Marshall’s tender rights. Of course, the Seahawks would immediately begin contract negotiations.
-TSG
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That is what I thought. Once he signs the tender he is a FA
Other teams will be negotiating with Marshall’s agent not the Broncos and Brandon will get to choose who he wants to sign with. We can’t grant another team exclusivity because of this. we can’t negotiate the extra draft picks either. I don’t think this helps the Broncos at all because we get the pick from whatever team Brandon decides to sign with unless we match the offer. If we do match the offer then we can trade him. I imagine in a case like this though a team will surely poison pill it so we don’t match.
by BroncoMath101 on Mar 3, 2010 11:59 PM MST up reply actions
scratch this, I wrote it after reading your comment John.
Thanks for the clarification.
by BroncoMath101 on Mar 4, 2010 12:01 AM MST up reply actions
Timing
How long will this play out with Marshall? I wonder how long a team will take to make an offer sheet to Marshall. This weekend or longer?
MHR Radio
Are we getting MHR Radio this week John?
Very soon...
-TSG
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There's an international microphone shortage. It won't happen soon.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Everyone needs to send John some twine and paper cups.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
It seems to me
That Marshall and his advisors are taking Marshalls value based on his on field performance. The Broncos feel that he has damaged his product as well as their own by his actions. This is the problem and Marshall needs to find out how bad he has hurt his product.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Thanks Guru,
I have one question about the example you gave. Even if the Ravens want “exclusivity” as you put it, what is to keep Marshall from signing an offer sheet with another team? In other words, do the Broncos have the power to grant exclusive negotiating rights for a higher tender, or does Marshall have total control over who he negotiates with?
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
No...
The Ravens could get exclusivity by working out a trade with the Broncos and taking over his rights. By that point, it would become known that the Ravens were going to sign Marshall to an extension. See my Wes Welker example above. The Ravens wouldn’t have to over-pay to get Marshall…
-TSG
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They can trade his "Tender"
Which is like trading the rights to him or something.
So if Baltimore wants exclusivity with him they take his tender and basically take over the position we’re in. Thats if we TRADE him. The difference is Baltimore WILL sign him pretty quickly to a non tender contract.
If he just signs the offer sheet and we don’t match it then he’s no longer a RFA and we’re +1st Round Pick.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
Yahtzee!!!
-TSG
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Secondary Point
I think this has been sort of overlooked but the picks based on tender and trading Brandon are two entirely separate things.
However, if you set your tender at a 1st and 3rd round its kind of like setting that as a reserve for an auction. Even if doesn’t mean we can’t trade his tender for less than that it kind of makes a trade for less than that seem ridiculous.
For instance – Josh McD would get torched in the press if he tenders him at a 1st and 3rd and then trades him for a 1st and 4th since he could just let a team make him an offer and take the 1st and 3rd.
This just builds the market for Brandon. It has worked out ENTIRELY in Denver’s favor. They either get what they want for him or find out his true market value and match the offer.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
That's what I am saying...
It simply sets the bar. People are still living in the NFL of last year and beyond. No cap means the Broncos have nothing to lose when it comes to Marshall because they can match ANY OFFER. Will they? Not likely, but other teams likely won’t sign him to an outrageous offer anyway because the NFLPA is watching to make sure the owners aren’t lying about their finances.
So, the 1st Rounder becomes the starting point…Going Upppppp!
-TSG
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Thank you John most have failed to see this.....
This does Marshall a huge favor. A 1 and a 3 could be too steep for most teams so he would likely receive fewer offers, if any.
This likely gets Marshall paid. Whether it be from us or someone else it does him a big favor. Marshall is happy. He is thanking McD and Xanders for this. Guaranteed.
We didn’t disrespect him we helped him.
I agree that Marshall should be very happy about this.
Maybe this will help to rebuild some of the trust lost between Marshall and the team.
My point to Calif above- more teams in the mix, so Marshall gets better options to concider from his own point of view
It is even possible Beast was in the decision loop. We just don’t know about that part. And with all of that said, the Broncos retain the right to match.
So, is it fair to say then
that the first round tender makes it less likely (though still not impossible) that Brandon will be wearing the Bronco helmet next year?
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" -- Wimpy J. Wellington
It makes it easier...
to work out a deal. In my opinion, it is setting the bar. No cap means the Broncos can match anything Marshall signs, so the 1st Rounder is just a starting point.
-TSG
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Looking beyond the Broncos
I was noticing in my newsreader this evening that many other teams are taking this same route with their RFAs. Panthers, Raiders, Jets, Bears and Redskins have all slapped tenders in the same general range on their players.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Definitely...
The only team that really did it another way was the Chargers, who basically gave a 1st and 3rd to everyone!
-TSG
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well...everyone except the difference maker that needs a contract...
talking about Darren Sproles, of course.
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
In a lot of ways, though...
they are doing the same thing with him – letting the market dictate his value. Sure, they don’t have the control, but they could have said to him, “Listen, go out, get yourself an offer and come back to us, we’ll match it”. Instead of the player and team battling over value, let the player find out for himself and do all the leg work!
-TSG
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by John Bena on Mar 3, 2010 10:12 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
If they would have tendered Sproles
He would have been given a raise on last year’s “Franchise Tag” salary. Obviously this would not be prudent for them but it does not mean they won’t resign him as John commented.
by OC Bronco Fan on Mar 4, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
Yep
There will be very little FA movement this year and maybe a few RFA will be traded but for the most part the teams rosters will look a lot like last years rosters. the average roster turnover for a team is about 30%. I’d guess this year it will be about 15% Strictly MO
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 3, 2010 9:58 PM MST up reply actions
More Information on the Free Agency
For those that want to know who is in the Free Agency, who is Unrestricted, who’s been Franchised, and so on…the NFL has a great break down on their site:
Thank you for this.
I immediately came to MHR when I first heard this news. Write ups like this are the reason.
Thanks for thinking of us!
-TSG
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John, good call on Tony.
I think it’s probably 75%/25% he stays now.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I look at this idea as a metaphor.
I (Denver) am selling a vintage Porsche (Marshall) on eBay. I’m going to start the bidding at 30,000 bucks (1st round tender), even though I KNOW the price will rise up. Since it’s a vintage Porsche that’s rare, deep pocketed bidders (Washington, for example) are going to bid over everyone else to get what they want. Of course, it helps that the rich man doing the bidding used to own this exact car that I’m selling (Shanahan). Either way, the WORST that happens is I sell the car for 30,000 and still get a good deal (1st round pick ONLY for Marshall), or I don’t get any bidders and I keep the car.
Anyone else get my drift?
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
by Joe Medina on Mar 3, 2010 10:48 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
Like the analogy Joe
Yet, I find myself agreeing with John’s comment up above. The owners are claiming financial hardship as the reason for opting out of the CBA. I can’t imagine that any of them would be dumb enough to start throwing tons of money into free agency since that would undermine their bargaining position.
I imagine we’ll see a lot of tenders like the Denver ones with the net result of very limited movement between teams by the free agents.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
True...
but if someone does get antsy with spending some cash on a WR, Marshall is likely to be the first one that pops in their head. Even though Boldin’s 3rd round tender is enticing, Marshall’s past 3 years have been nothing short of astonishing for owners and GM’s alike. The quality of his play doesn’t matter, it’s the quantity of the results, to GM’s and owners anyways…
John Clayton is the head Dean at Fail University (known as F.U. in short)
Formerly known as Calijoefornia
I think we all might be forgetting that Marshall was a 4th-rd pick. Could getting a 1st for BM exonerate Coach for giving a 1st for A. Smith? lol j/k
"I got a ring, too. It says Love. Think about THAT."
"EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!"
While this is mostly true
This tender allows Marshall to get a better payday for at worst 1 year and possibly longer. While your metaphor isn’t false it doesn’t allow for a couple of the variables in play. #1 Marshall’s agent likely pleaded for the least possible tender. IMHO the Broncos showed good faith, but not stupidity, with the 1st round only tender #2 We can match the offer so we are not overpaying above what anyone else would offer for him if we decide to do so. #3 If no one offers B Marsh a contract, which is very possible, we can still show good faith and give him a higher contract before the season starts, even for just this year.
I don’t know that McD and Xanders want him here next year but this move goes a long way in helping B Marsh. We will see.
by OC Bronco Fan on Mar 4, 2010 1:32 PM MST up reply actions
How Is This Management's Fault
the owners obviously opted out of the CBA because they thought it sucked but the players have to realize that no matter how much we love the NFL (I being chief among those in that camp) they are making money playing a game while I scratch by with whatever I can get. I will cheer for the Broncos until I’m lying face down in my Orange Crush for the count but come hell or highwater, the players need to realize it’s their own DeMaurice Smith forcing them into this situation. The sooner the players acquiesce to owners’ demands, the sooner they become even wealthier while we fans will find solace in the drudgery of our lives by watching the NFL on autumn weekends with NO LOCKOUT. Let’s do this please. I believe in Mr. Bowlen until he proves this is an asinine proposition. In case you’re wondering this has NOT happened yet, nor will it.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 3, 2010 11:00 PM MST reply actions
Man, for the life of me, I haven't ever seen so many people's knees quivering since little cutler sue left town!
My my, the skies are finally clearing with this guy.
Great post, John.
As others have mentioned, the calm, clear manner with which you sorted through the “tenders” situation lent reason and credibility to the perspective, and it’s hard to disagree with any of it.
My hope is that Denver keeps Marshall – but this was savvy for Broncos management to test the market in this respect, and see what comes of it. Frankly, there will be many ways to positively spin the next (final?) chapter in the Brandon Marshall saga in Denver: He stays, hooray! We get an extra first-rounder (or more) in this year’s draft, hooray!
It almost makes me forget that you’re a Cleveland Cavs fan. Almost. ;)
John what a great post
I am really happy with the way the management have gone about this. I hope we see an offer come in for Brandon and we can see his real market value and make him a Bronco for the forseeable future.
Cloudy skies today
Say the Ravens come the Brian Xanders and say they are going to sign Marshall to a sheet, but want the exclusivity. They could throw a 4th round pick into the deal and get Marshall’s tender for a 1st and 4th. See what I mean?
The problem with your premise, and nearly everybody elseās for that matter, is that it neverminds the fact that if the Ravens (using your example) were interested in Marshall for a first and fourth, then they would be interested in him for a 1st and 3rd (even if we had to negotiate down). It simply ignores that fact, along with the fact that weāve effectively relinquished control in negotiations, and the very real possibility that Brandon can go off on his own and sign an offer sheet with Miami for a cheapo first-rounder while we were still on the phone with Baltimore.
The less than rosy point here is that while itās possible that we get more than a 1st⦠Itās unlikely. We would be hoping that another team is willing to go higher than the asking price just for fun. Just to buy them extra time, because otherwise, they would just deal with Marshall directly. In either event, and this is key, we could have done the same thing if we had placed the higher tender on him. The difference being, that we would have remained in control. Teams would have had to deal through us to get BM, whether that meant lowering the price, or getting proven players in lieu of draft picks.
Has the sky fallen? No. But these ultra rosy pictures arenāt real. I read posts from what I consider very smart football minds on here every day, and I have a hard time believing that they actually believe all this propaganda-like kumbaya singing. It seems like some are agreeing just to agree. There’s some crazy ideas out there about how we’ve got ’em right where we want ’em. BS.
Granted, there is absolutely a chance that we keep Brandon, or that we get more than the asking price. So what, though. Itās not likely. And it’s ABSOLUTELY less likely now, than if we had used the high tender. And that’s the point gentlemen, what most are choosing to ignore, is that we are in LESS control today than two days ago. We are in a lesser bargaining position, and itās harder to now raise the price, than it would have been to set a higher price and then lower it. Our chances of trading for proven talent has greatly, if not fully, diminished also.
The first-round tender, unlike Orton and Doom and Kuper, says we donāt want him. You folks can be optimistic all you like, but two weeks ago 80% of you thought we could get at least a 1st and a 3rd. If youāre changing your mind now, just to support a bad decision, well, shame on you.
This is being done in an express lane fashion, in attempt to get past Marshall quickly, then move the team forward. Fine. I get that. But we could have at least tried for more, stayed in the driver seat, and even asked for proven players instead of draft picks. Not anymore.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I should clarify
This isn’t directed at you in particular, John.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
No worries...
But I certainly hope Brandon goes out and signs an el cheapo contract with a team because all the Broncos have to do then is match the offer and he’s a Bronco. See, right now, teams will deal with Marshall directly – but be competing with any other team making an offer, while at the same time be concerned that other free agents are being signed by other teams while they wait for 7 days for the Broncos to decide to match or not. In essence, they up their offer in order to remove the 7 day window. By making the trade, the two sides(Marshall and a team) have essentially agreed to compensation anyway.
Again, the First Round tender doesn’t mean that any team that signs Marshall to an offer sheet gives up a first rounder, case closed. That’s why I see this as the Broncos trying to determine Marshall’s ‘street value’. Once established, they’ll have a decision to make.
-TSG
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When I said "cheapo"
I was talking of the first-round compensation, not his price. I agree with you that any offer will need to be realistic and that the competition drives HIS price up, making it tougher to match. If he signs an offer sheet that we don’t, won’t, or can’t match… OUR price stays the same, a “cheapo” first-round pick for an elite receiver.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I agree with elvisalex
The first-round tender, unlike Orton and Doom and Kuper, says we donāt want him.
If the Broncos wanted Marshall, they’d have given him the higher tender, like they did with Dumervil. this says they’d just as soon see marshall hit the road.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day youāll awake and find that youāve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Not necessarily
It gives Marshall what he asked for and was promised his. It doesn’t say they don’t want him but it does open the possibility of him leaving.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 4, 2010 7:47 AM MST up reply actions
How about value? Let’s say Marshall does get an offer. It is obvious that the Broncos and Marshall cannot come to terms on what his value really is. Instead of fighting over it themselves, let other teams do it. Say the Ravens sign Marshall to a 3 year, $30 million offer sheet. Now the market has been set and the Broncos have two choices – match the sheet or let him leave for a 1st round pick. Get it now?
No. Explain to me again how we are better off by allowing other teams to essentially do our negotiating for us. I’m sure you’re aware, but we would not only be agreeing to the yearly salary that they agreed to, but also the “guaranteed money”, and most provisions. Do you really think it’s a good idea to let others deal with our problem child, hoping they put in the Brandon-don’t get-in-trouble clauses for us, just because we’re too weak to stand and negotiate with him?
The idea that he needs to learn his value has merit. He is hard headed. But you’re playing with fire when you let your competitors do your negotiating for you. The idea overall is lacking.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
It's not about weakness.
You’re coming in to this jaded about McDaniels, Xanders, or the Broncos handling of this situation from the beginning. Forget all of that and think of the market we are in right now – no cap, labor uncertainty after the 2011 Draft. All teams are handling their RFA’s this way.
This is not weakness on the Broncos part. Let the market determine Marshall’s worth. I see no problem with that at all. The Chargers are doing the EXACT SAME THING with Darren Sproles. Why battle with the player or agent when other teams can determine the market and the Broncos can react at that time. It is smart business..
-TSG
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We disagree
Time will tell if this was a smart business move to work out a contract with him, or if it was an express lane to getting rid of him on the cheap.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Here is a quote from Chris Kuper's Agent
It’s bittersweet," said Leo Goeas, Kuper’s agent. "Chris likes being there, he likes being a Bronco. A lot of this is out of his control. The good thing about this is the Broncos sent the message with that first-round tender that they value him and they don’t want him leaving. The other side is by putting such a high tender on him, it does limit his opportunities.
The higher the tender, the fewer the opportunities. What the Broncos want are opportunities. You think other teams want to get into a bidding war for Brandon Marshall? They have the same reservations about Marshall the Broncos have. They’re not blind.
Again, I am fully admitting that the Broncos are open to trading him for the best offer. They may come to the conclusion that a 1st Round pick was that best offer – and we can criticize that when it happens. I’m just saying the logic that a lower tender shows disrespect to the player is backwards – just ask the agent.
-TSG
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The other side is by putting such a high tender on him, it does limit his (Kuper) opportunities.
The higher the tender, the fewer the opportunities.
That’s because nobody has reason to believe that Kuper is for sale. Whether it was the high-tender, the first-rounder, or a blue ribbon placed on Marshall, common sense tells every club out there that the Broncos are at least open to moving Brandon. Phone calls accomplish the same thing.
Yes, the first-round tender on Kuper means we want to keep him and it limits his options. The only way that same reasoning would have applied to Marshall, had we upped his tender, would be if the phones stopped working at the same time common sense went out the window.
Teams know BM is a possibility. If they’re truly interested in him, no tender amount would prevent them from a simple phone call.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I'm sure Schefter's got some inside scoop
But it really doesn’t matter if there’s one or four suitors. We still can’t easily raise the price now, although we could have lowered it had we placed the higher tender. We still don’t negotiate with the teams like we would have, but rather we just sit and wait. And we still don’t get to decide what goes into his new contract. Instead, we can only decide to match or not match.
Whether there’s one team or seven, whether we get a single first-round pick, or four first-rounders… we still gave up control.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Most people are disagreeing with you man...and I, like them enjoy your stuff...
But you are not seeing the forrest from the trees my man.
This is NOT just about BM……this is about the options that the Broncos, and other teams , have as a whole. Sayre has an interesting post about Boldin, and that is one of the option I am speaking about .
Say we dont sign BM, but get a 1st at minimum.
We drop a 3rd for Boldin, and then pick up a guy like Dez Bryant to play opposite him, I say our WR is INSTANTLY upgraded, without sacrificing other parts of the team.
ITS NOT ABOUT CONTROL….its about having a myriad of options to make your team better.
Thats all that has happened here!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didnāt rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Mar 4, 2010 8:57 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That veiw is short-sighted
Say we pick up Boldin, as you say, for a 3rd rounder. Say Marshall’s gone, and again, like you say, we use the pick for Dez Bryant.
None of that has anything what so ever to do with how much we tendered Marshall at. None of what we do afterwards changes the fact that we let Marshall go for a first rounder.
I get that you think I’m seeing this narrowly. But I think it’s everybody else. All I hear is excuses and circular logic about how we’ll still be fine, or in good position. That we’re “keeping our options open”.
The fact is, no matter whether we trade Marshall for Dez Bryant (the first-round pick), then gain 12 more receivers to stack our roster, or end up with Julius Peppers and a milk shake… We still traded an elite receiver for a single 1st round pick. And that’s not good enough to me, nor was it good enough to about 80% of everybody else here, up until yesterday.
What’s changed? Nothing. The decision came down to put a 1st round tender on him, and everybody now comes out to support the decision.
The team won’t implode. I’m not saying it will. But I don’t care if we get a handfull of all-pro’s in free agency. If we give up an elite receiver for a single pick, it’s a mistake.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Is it possible
That Denver could get more out of Marshall by tendering a 1st than a 1st and 3rd?
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 4, 2010 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
Nobody's saying that anything is impossible
It is less likely today than it was two days ago. It’s harder to raise the price in a negotiation that you’re not invited to, than it would have been to lower your price in a negotiation that you’re running.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
so if it was a 1st and 3rd we are running it?
but since it is a 1st, we don’t run it at all?
how does that logic work? Teams have the same ability regardless of the tender to work with both us and Brandon Marshall. We opened up the number of teams which might be interested by putting a 1st on him.
Look at the Patriots / Dolphins. Dolphins put a 2nd round tender on Wes Welker. The Patriots got Welker for a 2nd and 7th and then signed him to a new contract.
Consider the possibility that we are indeed open to retaining Brandon Marshall, if you put a 1st and 3rd on him, no team is going to come after him. A lot of teams are already saying they wouldn’t give up a first, he has too much baggage. If no teams come after him, you can’t get a baseline for what he should be paid at for either yourself or more importantly, his agent.
This way, you encourage at least a couple teams to come at him and offer him a contract at what they think he is worth — not what you think he is worth and not what he thinks he is worth. If the offers suck, he won’t sign them. If all the offers suck, they may realize they have too high an opinion of themselves. If we deem the offer fine, perhaps we match it and won’t have to negotiate with him. If the offer is huge, we get the first round pick for a player who wants more $ than we are willing to risk on him.
so if it was a 1st and 3rd we are running it?
but since it is a 1st, we donāt run it at all?
Yes. For a 1 and a 3, teams unwilling to pay it, but are interested in BM, would negotiate with us to lower the price. For a 1, teams go to Brandon, work out a deal, have him sign it, then we either match it or leave it.
Consider the possibility that we are indeed open to retaining Brandon Marshall, if you put a 1st and 3rd on him, no team is going to come after him.
Everybody in the league knows BM is attainbale. The phones work, relationships exist. Prices can be lowered easier than raised. It’s not impossible or even unprecedented. But we have less control in this situation.
The problem with the theory in the 2nd half of the comment, is that we control nothing. He learns his value from another club and we wait to see if he likes it, if he signs it, and if the terms are matchable.
Wait and see is no more a winning strategy than tic-tac-toe is winnable. I would prefer that our FO has the ball in their hands when so much is on the line.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Do you feel any team is going to call the Jets about Braylon Edwards?
Do you think they would have if they only put a first on him?
I believe your answers to this are different than mine and as such, neither of us will probably be swayed.
Maybe
That’s way different, though. The Jets clearly want to keep their loud-mouth troubled star after giving two players and two picks for him last year.
I’m sure they’ll still get “feelers”.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
What you don't get is...
Yes. For a 1 and a 3, teams unwilling to pay it, but are interested in BM, would negotiate with us to lower the price. For a 1, teams go to Brandon, work out a deal, have him sign it, then we either match it or leave it.
that teams cannot “lower the price” if a first and third is tendered on B-Marsh. It’s a first and third period. See Doom. If someone wants to sign Doom and the Broncos don’t match it, that team has to give us a first and third (ain’t gonna happen). So essentially no one will ask for Doom because of the price tag.
Marshall is already unhappy in Denver and do you think that if we tendered him a first and third he’d be any happier? No one, I repeat, NO ONE, would offer that and he’d be ‘stuck’ here for another year at a salary he feels is below him. It gives both the players and team options.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
Yeah they can
they can trade his rights or do a sign-and-trade. It’s much easier than going back to a team that just got Brandon to sign an offer sheet and asking them for additional picks.
Marshall is already unhappy in Denver and do you think that if we tendered him a first and third heād be any happier?
I don’t care. It’s not an issue. We’re clearly trying to move him. The tender is just a means to an end. We just get less for him now. And we no longer get the possibility of attaining proven talent in return.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
But they won’t go back and ask for additional picks. They’ll sign him themselves. If another team really wants him then they can pony up something for him, which is what John is talking about.
So, once Marshall gets the money he wants, everyone now knows his true value and he can play for us at that value. Simple.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
Yeah it's far from simple
It’s also far from assured that we’re just waiting for an enemy team to negotiate with our player, then ink an offer sheeet just so that we can turn around and agree to everything THEY aggeed on. History will grade our judgments pretty soon.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Marshall is not elite yet....he has the potential...he has never been a game changer for Denver, so I think it is only around here that he is valued so highly!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didnāt rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
A couple things...
First, all I said was this – the first round tender gives the Broncos more options – it does – because it brings more possible teams to the table.
Secondly, on January 11, 2010, I asked if people would trade Marshall for a 1st Round Pick in the 2010 draft. Over 2000 people replied, 65% said yes they would. Things didn’t change yesterday.
Here’s the poll – http://www.milehighreport.com/polls/show/60003
-TSG
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I stand corrected
More people value him at less than I do. With the vote aside (good in-your-face proof btw lol), written opinions, like mocks for example, seem to always have Brandon listed as a 1 and a 3.
Still, I was wrong in artificially guessing at a number.
We still disagree about having more options. But I don’t think that will change, and my point on it has been exhausted =)
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Again..
I don’t necessarily disagree with your valuation. I think this gives the Broncos more ways to get it without limiting the potential pool right off the bat.
No one knows for sure how this will end, only then can we debate what just happened.
Thank you for the excellent conversation!
-TSG
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I have to agree with you Elvis, mostly
Unless we are in fact showing good faith to B Marsh and his agent, and the Broncs are prepared to match any offer, this writes his ticket out of town.
We didn’t take that chance with Elvis, but I imagine more teams would have lined up for one of the league’s top pass rushers and a great locker room guy. So although we would have recieved higher compensation in a 1 and a 3 for Doom it would have been tougher to match the offer sheet. We will be able to match Marshall’s because it won’t be as much money, but I too wouldn’t be surprised if they let him go.
And IMO a 1st rounder for him is a bad deal. A “lotto ticket,” as you called it.
by OC Bronco Fan on Mar 4, 2010 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
Good to hear somebody agrees with me =)!!
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Elvis
In most cases I might agree with you. But as I posted yesterday, it is very difficult in the case to read Marshall’s value. It is also very difficult to read the playing field this off season. How do you value Brandon Marshall? As a 3 year 100 catch receiver or as a guy one issue away from a serious suspension? Do you value him as your most important offensive threat or as the guy who punted the ball and got suspended at the beginning and end of the year?
In Marshall’s case I believe there is quite a bit of merit to allowing the Broncos to let the league set his value, including clauses about his behavior. Brandon Marshall is a living paradox to the Broncos. He is the best of the best and worst of the worst at times.
Getting a “second opinion” is his particular case to me, is genius.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Mar 4, 2010 6:01 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I value him as a troubled receiver
that management has decided to part ways with.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Mar 4, 2010 6:10 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I get where you are coming from.
You doubt that Xanders and McDaniels are two of the most intelligent negotiators and as you wrote a post or two ago that they would be willing to even lose money or draft choices just to let him go, “getting rid of him on the cheap”.
I guess that sort of proves and comes back to what John wrote “Youāre coming in to this jaded about McDaniels, Xanders, or the Broncos handling of this situation from the beginning”.
Nothing we write will change what happens, so I guess we will see and have to live with what happens.
Personally, I think everyone here and around the league values Marshall as a “troubled receiver”. But saying that doesn’t attach a dollar sign or trade value to him.
Xanders just placed the bar where he can find out that value and make an intelligent decision is it best for the Broncos to let him go or keep him.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
I disagree with their decision
I disagree with the strategy. And perhaps I’m angry about it. If that makes me jaded, so be it.
My point in the last comment was that I don’t think it matters what his value is anymore. While others are clinging to the notion that we want other teams to do the negotiating forward, I’m clinging to the idea that the decision has been made to move Brandon quickly. Time will tell.
The comment about “weakness” was maybe poorly worded. I don’t consider McX weak or bad negotiators. I consider them to have, in this specific situation, weakened our leveraging power and our control of the situation in order to quickly move past a headache. I disagree with the strategy. I think the headache is worth the extra time if it lends the possibility of acquiring proven talent and/or more draft picks in the trade.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Opps
While others are clinging to the notion that we want other teams to do the negotiating forward for us, I’m clinging to the idea that the decision has been made to move Brandon quickly. Time will tell.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Yep, you are angry and when angry common sense does not exist.....lets see how it plays out...but we can see its hard to talk you off the ledge. it will all be OK my friend!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didnāt rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
ElvisAlex
I enjoy talking to you about things, you make me think, thanks for the discussion
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
My view
is that Marshall and his advisors think Marshall is worth more than he is. Therefore other teams will show Marshall that the Broncos have been offering him a good offer all along.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 4, 2010 7:38 AM MST up reply actions
+100000000
Don’t get me wrong, he’s worth ALOT! But I expect the agent is assuming FITZ type money……
"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
Just to clarify
First, I believe a player does not have to sign the tender for the above scenarios to take effect. The tender alone preserves the team’s rights in the face of the player’s negotiations with other teams. if a player does sign the tender, he is under contract to the team that tendered it. Of course, the team can then trade him.
Second, matching an offer doesn’t solve the problem of the player’s attitude toward the team that matched and kept him even if he is getting the money he agreed to with another team. For example, a player may want to play near his off-season home for less than the amount he would want to play in a far away from home place. Or a player may just want what is called in psychology a “cahnge of cue,” a different venue to get away from things that affect his mind.
Third, I think the only team that the Broncos can negotiate with for more than a 1st Rd pick is the team that Marshall signs with because the only thing they have is 1st round pick rights. In other words, if Ravens offer Denver a 1st and 4th, but Marshall signs with Seattle, Seattle gets him subject to Denver matching. Of course, Denver could match and then trade to Ravens for a 1st and 4th. A lot would depend on who signs him and what the 1st is really worth (Seattle’s 1st at 14 overall is worth more than Arizona’s 1st). So negotiations may be going on simultaneously or during the 7 day match period.
Fourth, maybe its time for the fans to reach out to Marshall and let him know he is wanted. Maybe MHR can lead the way.
I don't think it's 1st come 1st serve basis,
I think it’s more like the team willing to pay the most will get to submit an offer for the Broncos to match or not match. That will all be done behind the scenes between the agent and the other teams. The agent will also be in contact with the Broncos, letting them know who and what the offers are. IMO
It's which ever offer Brandon likes
It’s only effective once he signs it, then we have seven days to match. It’s possible as Opinion8r wrote above, that we match the offer, then go back to the team and try to jack up the price. Seems risky and unlikely.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
what could happen if Marshall signs an offer
is Denver could negotiate with the offering team during the 7 day waiting period saying that they will match unless the offering team ups the ante om picks. If the offering team refuses, then Denver will have to decide to match and keep or not match and get the 1st. This might come itno play if the offering team is a low 1st round picker.
Yeah, like I said
It’s possible that once the offer sheet is signed, that we then go back to that team and try to jack up the price (under the threat of matching it otherwise). It’s possible, but unlikely.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I wrote about this yesterday
But what if Seattle signs Marshall to a front loaded deal that makes it impossible for 90% of the teams in this league to match? (the exceptions being Washington and Dallas)
Although the fans might be happy about it would the Denver management be happy with the 4th overall pick? I doubt it.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Why not?
Why wouldn’t Denver be happy with the 4th overall?
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day youāll awake and find that youāve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Because no NFL franchise values top picks like us fans do.
In fact I would argue that most despise and fear the cost of a top-5 pick.
Think about it $15-20 million for a complete unproven when the bust rate is about 33%? (And that doesn’t even include those who don’t become stars, which is what you look for that high) Not what most would consider a good gamble.
Low firsts and second rounders are more valued due to nearly the same success rate, at a much, much lower cost.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Okay, I get that
But 4, by that reasoning, is much better than 1. Outside of the QB’s (Bradford and Clausen, neither of whom I want in Denver, and one of whom is probably going to St. Louis), there are some really good players that will be on the board after the QB, Suh, and McCoy, any or whom could be as good as the first three, for seriously less money. It also means that a trade down from that spot might be a lot more likely, given that no one wants to trade up to 1 or 2, or 3.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day youāll awake and find that youāve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Trading down from 4 is dicey.
I remember the Pats a few years back couldn’t even move from 10. They took Jerod Mayo so it worked out nicely, but it’s still not a given.
Sure there’s lots of talent in this draft, but you have to remeber the owners want to curb spending. So how many teams are going to be willing to trade up to pay what may be one of the last huge rookie contracts? Especially since most realize they can get good talent later.
Plus from the Denver perspective, you can’t balk at the risk of paying Marshall, who could be suspended for any transgression, for an unknown rookie no matter how talented. I don’t think Marshall’s worth the guaranteed money we’re talking here, but I don’t think a rookie is either.
I’ve got my fingers crossed a late first round team wants him. Not someone like the Redskins or Seahawks, unless we can request the 14th pick.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
I don’t think teams operate that way. No team is going to give him some heavily front loaded contract.
Teams are cutting cost this year, under the auspices of no 2011 year. You don’t give gobs of money to a person with obvious issues for one season, only to have the potential of that person having gobs of money to spend and no football to distract him.
If you heavily front load a contract you are essentially cutting the time frame of the contract. Players try to play the system and if they are suddenly making “less” because it was front loaded and they already got paid that $ — they make their problems known.
opinion8r
Denver can trade the tender to any team they want. Then it is that team that has the right to match any offer that comes along. If a team makes a trade like that all other teams will leave him alone because they know any offer made will be matched. So Denver does have the ability to negotiate as well as Marshall. So this is more of a matter of Marshall’s agent working with Denver in negotiations.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 4, 2010 7:45 AM MST up reply actions
So, tell me 3nS
Why would Denver trade the tender to a team with a low 1st rd pick for a 1st and 4th, for example, if the team that signs Marshall has a high 1st rd pick that is worth more than a low 1st and 4th. You are correct. It could happen, but it is not likely. It is more likely that simultaneous negotiations will take place with the acquiring team or Denver will wait until a contract is signed by Marshall.
They wouldn't
I was just mentioning that Denver could negotiate with teams other than ones in which Marshall is in negotiations with. This is what drives up his value and may cause a trade for much higher than a 1st rounder. I agree most likely simutaneous negotiations will be taking place.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, youāll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 4, 2010 8:13 AM MST up reply actions
Off Topic but worth discussing
With Orton being tendered with a first what happens if he decides to hold out like most the restricted free agents will be advised to do?
Do we really want our franchise QB losing an offseason over CBA issues? That would definitely set us back.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
It's going to be an interesting off-season
and likely a bumpy ride. Not sure if Orton will hold out in the volunteer stuff, but certainly not the mandatory things. There’s a lot of talk about the Union pressuring these guys to all hold out of the optional stuff, but Orton seems like a soldier. Not sure if he will buck the union or not.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Mar 4, 2010 7:31 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't get the impression
That Orton is a hold out kind of guy.
He’s still desperately trying to prove he can be a solid starting QB to the rest of the league. I don’t believe he’ll waste valuable preparation time trying to fix something he can’t.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
I agree
I think he sees a good future in Denver with McD’s system, and I bet the Broncos will treat him right in the long run. I don’t see an Orton holdout.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day youāll awake and find that youāve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Love this move...
Eliminates the headaches of bargaining over a player’s worth, and leaves it in the hands of the free market….what’s not to like?!
And we can match ANY offer if it’s reasonable and he can stay a Bronco! This is good for all involved. If he really does want to leave Denver (I hope it’s not true), then we get adequate compensation and possibly more. :)
I still think he will be a happy Broncos receiver this year!
"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
by Broncotodd on Mar 4, 2010 8:06 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
In the end, if we lose Marshall for a late 1st round pick, it will be a bad deal for Denver where we traded an elite player for pennies on the dollar.
If the Ravens want this guy, there is a good chance our only compensation will be a pick at 25 in the 2010 draft. I don’t see trading Marshall for Golden Tate or Pouncey as an upgrade for Denver. I see it as a huge risk and a move that makes us immediately worse for 2010.
McDaniels is bold and brave. No doubt about it. But if we end up at 5-11 or the like in 2010, he will find himself on the hot seat. Our O was not good to begin with and we didn’t really show any improvement in 2009. Losing our best skill position player (an elite player no less) for a rookie usually means taking a step back, even if the rookie pans out.
If we lose Marshall, a lot things will have to fall into place that didnāt in 2009 (i.e. Eddie Royal and Sheff making massive improvements, Graham playing better than he did in 2009, Hillis or his replacement making an impact, Moreno stepping up quite a bit, Gaffney being more than a 2 game wonder, the emergence of a slot WR and the impact of a rookie at WR). Iām certain some of these guys will answer the bell, but Iām also certain some of them wonāt. Losing Marshall puts a lot of pressure on Orton and as Bena said, Orton is likely going to hold out for as long as he can so I don’t know how that will help matters. If our O doesnāt make some strides in 2010, we will not be a good football team.
In my opinion.
by McGeorge on Mar 4, 2010 8:23 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
This is were it helps to not have the Eeyore mentality about everything Broncos.
Because then you could consider the other side of the coin:
Denver doesn’t have to let him go for a late 1st rounder. However, they can if the market goes all insane on him and somebody is stupid enough to guarantee him big money up front. If its reasonable, Denver’s sitting on at least an extra 5 – 6 million from the Shanahan contract, the savings on not having that extra first rounder this year, and the fact that they are not throwing the big coin at anybody in order to be more ‘fair’ than the rest of the NFL. They sliced away a fair amount of dead money last year, had an amazingly efficient FA period last year, and have an owner who is notorious for spending to win. In other words, they have positioned themselves to be able to play in the Derby without selling their souls to the devil. They are sitting in the figurative catbird seat, with the chance to give BM the closest thing to FA they reasonably can while at the same time protecting their own financial position. It’ll be hard for BM to come back a disgruntled Bronco if Denver is willing to pay him the very best offer he could find. If BM prices out of the reasonable market and Denver passes, they get a shot at a prospect in what you’ve repeatedly called the greatest draft since the birth of jesus, and they still have millions to throw at a consolation prize like Anquan Boldin.
Wouldn’t that be hilarious, though? If the stupid-ass Alphonso Smith trade played a role in being able to retain Brandon Marshall? That’d be rich.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 4, 2010 9:24 AM MST up reply actions 6 recs
wth does that dumb-ass AS trade have to do with anything?
I chalk it up to a lesson learned that still might (maybe) pan out not to be a total loss…
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 4, 2010 7:09 PM MST up reply actions
Also don't we lose the rest of the dead money
that was on our cap the last few years? I know we had some come off last year, but I thought there was still more. Like Javon Walker’s….
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Do you have any idea what you are saying?
If someone was stupid enough to trade an unknown 1st round pick for Alphonso Smith, there are probably other dummies willing to pay a pretty penny to acquire a 100+ catch WR that is just entering his prime.
There is no cap this year. You keep trying to apply the cap rules to your silly argument, but you are doing nothing more than creating a false setting. With no cap, all that matters is what Bolwen can and is willing to spend. We could have ten 1st round picks in 2010 if Bowlen was willing to pay the coin. We could sign Marshall, Dansby, Julius Peppers and Barry Sanders. We could cut several players and have an ultra low salary structure like KC. It is entirely up to Bolwen.
You keep trying to spin the Alphonso Smith trade, but you keep failing. THERE IS NOT a CAP in 2010. The stupid ass Alphonso Smith trade made us nothing but worse in the short and long run. Losing Marshall will also make us worse. Maybe Bowlen goes out and signs Boldin, which would help offset the loss of BM. None of this has anything to do with Alphonso Smith and his 2nd round contract. That is a sunk cost that is meaningless in an uncapped year. Same thing with savings on Shanahan’s deal. Meaningless as far as being allowed to sign 2010 FAs, match offers or pay 2 1st round picks.
In my opinion.
Its funny...
…because I made no mention of the cap. I ran with the assumption that Pat Bowlen probably has a budget— so many dollars that can be spent on players— and concluded that the 4 or 5 million saved by not paying #14 this year (plus the added 3.5 saved when Shanahan signed with Washington) might come in handy if Denver wants to keep Marshall. It makes a big front load a little easier to swallow…and makes it less of a gamble for Denver to draw out the market on Marshall so that they only have to spend what the have to— rather than what Marshall thinks he should get— to retain him. Now a team has to get that much crazier to price Denver out of the market— if Denver even wants to keep him.
I honestly don’t give a rats rear about trying to sway you on AS. But I do enjoy getting called stupid by you on a weekly basis. Its nice to know that you care so much about my opinion.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 4, 2010 6:36 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Amen.
I will accept the trade options/‘wiggle room’ excuse for the no 3rd in the Marshall tender just as soon as it works out that way. GAWD I hope this is the case!! If we lose BM for a low first rounder… I will officially go back to being pissed again at the whole new regime!!
Be Smart McXX!! Make us proud!!
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 4, 2010 6:55 PM MST up reply actions
"Want" vs "Don't Want"
Life is never that simple.
Giving someone a tender of any kind does not say in an absolute sense that you want or don’t want them. It’s a business, and no single player overrides the best interests of the team. Would the Broncos like to have Marshall back? I think so. Would they like to do so while overpaying him? I don’t think so. Do they know which way it will go? I don’t think so. That’s the point. It’s an uncertain market, so why overcommit when you still get the chance to match any offer?
There’s been lots of talk about the Ravens. So suppose the Ravens make a decent offer to Marshall. Now the Broncos can decide whether they want Marshall at a reasonable price or a late 1st round pick. I’m guessing the Broncos would pick Marshall in that case. Suppose the Ravens make a ridiculous offer for Marshall. Well, then, that’s the market, and he’s too expensive to keep, so at least we get another first round pick (giving us two, by the way, at which point I’d be surprised if the Broncos actually used that pick rather than trading it to move up or down). So either the Ravens don’t get Marshall and we pay him a fair price or they have to overpay to get him and we probably get more than one draft pick out of it. Their only alternative is to offer players or even more picks, which only makes the deal better for Denver.
I don’t hate Marshall, and I don’t question his unique talent, but I still believe he’s volatile enough that he could quite quickly be suspended for a year from whatever team he’s playing for, at which point said team might as well have taken a blowtorch to those dollars. Given that, I think the Broncos are doing what I’d do: find out if someone else is willing to overpay for that scenario, because I’m sure not.
We only have more options if Marshall is definitely not worth 1+3
If a team is willing to negotiate with Broncos to receive exclusive rights to BMarsh, they will approach Denver. And they may offer more or less then tender calls for. Of course, if they offer less, Denver can tell them to shove it: “Sign him to an offer and give us our due according to the tender, we are not accepting lower offers.” So we definitely get more options by tendering him 1st – options between 1st and 1+3, that is. I like the auction analogy mentioned above: if we want to sell for 1+3, but start lower, we gain ability to sell for between 1 and 1+3. Or are we really hoping to find a sucker who wants Marshall for 1st only, but would not consider him for 1+3 – but then buys him for more them 1+3? Because this is the only real application of these additional “options” I see.
Great coversation!
You guys are really doing a great job with a sensitive subject! Awesome. Here is a link I posted in a comment earlier. This is for informational purposes only. On January 11, 2010, I asked if you would trade Marshall for a 2010 First Round Pick. Here are the results – Over 2000 people replied, 65% said yes they would.
Hereās the poll ā http://www.milehighreport.com/polls/show/60003
-TSG
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Do you think the team is better off
with a first-round pick instead of Brandon Marshall?
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
I think a lot of it depends on how much the team has to spend to retain him and where the first round pick is.
Yeah, but we don't get to decide that. We gave up the right to control these decisions
by tendering him so low. Whether it’s the Rams or the Ravens, the team already decided that they are open to accepting.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Right — but we don’t have to negotiate with him. He already has animosity with us about his contract, you think that makes him more amicable to working out his price?
What about if he is open market [RFA] and gets ten different offer sheets from teams and they are all below what we were going to offer [that he would have felt slighted by?]?
We would never have control over what his price is, only he and his agent would. This way other teams show him what his real value is, not something inflated [Fitzgerald].
If some other team wants to give him huge money, we would never have kept him anyway, he isn’t worth the trouble at that price point in my opinion.
The if's are very big
I understand your point. The problem with allowing other teams to show him his worth, again, is that we don’t control the outcome. If we could get them to say, BM is worth$8M per year, then fine. But we’re not only allowing them to do that, but also dictate the terms of the deal and the guaranteed money. IMO, it’s never a good idea to have your competitors do your negotiating for you. And if they agree to a contract that we don’t match, which I consider uber-likely, then it’s unlikely we get more than a first.
So again, we’ve put ourselves in position to either (a) let one of our battle-field enemies negotiate our contract for us (by matching it), or (b) let a great young WR leave for a single pick. I would consider putting ourselves in that position to be a strategic mistake.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Mar 4, 2010 11:54 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
First Round Pick to Low?
I tend to disagree with you Elvis about the control of the decisions for the Broncos. While a little surprised after sitting back and looking at the tenders, they were well thought out. Three of the players are Team Players and will report to practice despite what is in print. A QB. Guard, and “Elvis Too Small Doom” tell me a lot of where this team is headed.
So what is the value of a first and second round pick, if you do not want to match a counter offer of the other two Tenders?
PRICELESS!
Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans
So what is the value of a first and second round pick, if you do not want to match a counter offer of the other two Tenders?
Less than the value of a 1, 2, and 3 pick. Sounds like we agree that he’s out, though.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Lots of Options
I would trade down for 2nd or third round picks. 1st is too pricey and we have one now. I would look for the best available G/C in the second depending on there is one and if not look to a DE/NT. Yes I did not put names on the positions.
Guess what I am saying is if we lose Marsh and Shef, the tenders might well turn into multiple picks in the draft or FA.
Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans
Really depends on what he ends up getting paid whether it's worth it or not.
If we’re talking Wes Welker money then I’d be more than happy to pay that and welcome him back.
If he’s looking for Larry Fitzgerald money, then good luck Brandon and don’t let the door hit ya. Would hurt us at the WR position in the short term. But in the long-term we’d definitely be better off, if we don’t have to be the ones with the right to overpay Brandon. Don’t get me wrong he’s a good player, but not this “elite” stuff people throw around.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
I don't think he's coming back
I understand the conspiracy theories about being in collusion with Brandon in order to show him his worth, match the offer, and live happily ever after. I don’t see it that way. Obviously time will tell, but I very firmly believe Brandon was just shown the door, and very likely for a single pick.
To me, the production that will be missed will not be returned by that single pick. Therefore, I consider this entire process fubar.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Mar 4, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
"Therefore, I consider this entire process fubar."
You’re assuming the good Brandon would be here for the next few years, instead of the bad Brandon.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day youāll awake and find that youāve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
the BAD BRANDON that caught 100+ passes every year so far
yeah, that’s pretty bad!
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 4, 2010 7:00 PM MST up reply actions
That's the good Brandon
The bad one is the one that gets arrested; pouts his way through training camp; escalated the tension outside the bar the night Williams got murdered; and quit on his team last January.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day youāll awake and find that youāve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
I disagree...
I don’t see possesion WRs who benefit from the highest number of targets three years in a row as being all that hard to replace. I certainly don’t think that production is worth Top-5 WR money. Especially with that contract being invested in an diva WR one slipup from a long suspension. A player who may not even want to be here due to D-Will’s tragedy.
Though I will definitely miss the yearly race with Braylon Edwards to lead the league in drops……
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Mar 4, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
What if...
…we are trying to give the perception that we don’t want him? Maybe people will be interested but think that we won’t match, so they pay him less than they normally would have. Then we come back and match.
Just throwing theories out there. I don’t think we’ll have any clue until 7 days from when he signs an offer.
Also, did anyone see that Pierre Thomas was only given a 2nd round tender? PT is a GREAT running back that is not used properly in NO. I know RB is not a need, and that PT isn’t particularly speedy (to complement Moreno), but I would love to have him on our team.
by black_knight101 on Mar 4, 2010 11:09 AM MST reply actions
One of the surprises this off-season
to me anyway, is how relatively full the market for backs has gotten. Between UFA’s and RFA’s, there’s quite a few attainable backs. Westbrook, LT, Sproles, Jones, Parker, Faulk – they’re all unrestricted.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
yeah thats very true. i think teams are in this mode where they think that they can just stick anyone in there and they’ll do just fine. The Chargers basically have no legitimate RBs at the moment, although they could get Sproles back. The Eagles and the Jets are planning on giving full loads to two 2nd year RBs (although they are both good looking RBs). I feel like this is dangerous, especially for the Chargers.
by black_knight101 on Mar 4, 2010 11:30 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah the Chargers need to worry a little
The Jets O’ Line should hide any drop off in talent, though.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
Great clarity Bena and Rec'd
The Broncos and other organizations are using the tenders as an oppurtunity to let others set the market value for the player or reset it depending on the player without that player possibly being pissed with their respective organizations. I have to admit it is a brilliant business decision on the part of Owners and GM’s.
My thoughts on Brandon Marshall as a player: In terms of pure football physical gifts…..he is easily a top three WR in the game. 1. Andre Johnson, 2. Calvin Johnson, 3. Brandon Marshall. Yes ahead of Fitzgerald, Boldin, Vincent Jackson Randy Moss, Sidney Rice and Reggi Wayne. For clarification, I’m not talking production but talent level. That said, his brilliant talent does not always translate into the kind of production indicative of his gifts. His stats would be better and should be better if he were more diciplined and team oriented. As a fan, nothing frustrates me more than watching a great talent under achieve and not reach his full potential.
If Marsahll is moved, the Broncos had better replace talent for talent (Anquan Boldin or some other elite WR). If not, the talent drain will place more on stress on Orton who already has enough on his plate trying to learn the complex playbook of Josh McDaniels.
by Cardsfan81 on Mar 4, 2010 12:18 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
If Denver truly wanted Marshall
it seems to me they would give him a 1st and 3rd. Its not at all clear there’s a team would give that up. Sure, if everything goes well, Marshall is worth it but history says everything won’t go well and then a team really looks bad for giving up a 1st and 3rd for him. Even at just a 1st, I don’t think many teams will be interested in taking on the baggage that goes along with his incredible talent. So IMO the Broncos weren’t trying to be clever. They went with the price that they thought he was worth more or less given his precarious situation. They’re willing to give him away for a first because its pretty clear that Marshall doesn’t want to be here (recent comments likely being being designed to counter the perception that he is difficult, improve his market value, etc.) That’s my take, anyway which is probably rephrasing what others have already said. It will be interesting to see what happens.
by Broncos2009 on Mar 4, 2010 2:51 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I'm Just Glad
that the Broncos are giving Orton some respect in his tender. He played better than I expected and as everyone knows, I’m an optimist!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Mar 4, 2010 3:15 PM MST reply actions

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