Horse Tracks - 3/31/10 - Bryant's workout leaves Questions
by John Bena on Mar 31, 2010 8:33 AM MDT
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Good Morning Broncos Country! First, thanks to everyone for the all the suggestions about the shuttle launch. I am excited to 'feel' it to be sure. Also, if you are the person that called me, please send me an email at MileHighReport@gmail.com. Now, as for Dez Bryant's workout - which you can read all about in several links below - it seems there are more questions than answers. His numbers were fine, and there isn't really a nagging problem that is a sure-fire reason to see him plummet down draft boards, but there is just something about him. For instance, Bryant was forced to wear new cleats for his workout. Why? He forgot his shoes. Now, anyone who plays sports knows what a good pair of cleats feels like. It is kind of like a baseball glove. New ones just don't feel the same. Again, is the a huge deal? I don't know - unless you are like me and you consider these workouts as a job interview. Lack of focus and preparation is an indication of a player's work-ethic. That's just me, but the more time goes by, the less and less I want Bryant on the Broncos. Not with guys like Golden Tate out there - talented and focused. On to the Tracks!
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Shocked by McNabb
1) McNabb doesn’t want to be a Raider? I’m totally blown away.
2) Dizzy Dez Bryant forgetting his cleats. It happens. The dog ate my suit and tie for my last job interview, so it’s all good.
3) Eric Berry off the board before #11. I’m crying. Superman and Chuck Norris almost cried too, but Norris doesn’t shed tears and once Superman saw Norris so stoic, he composed himself and got it together.
Abide, the dude does. Know you not, but comfort in that I take.
But, seriously folks
I saw Superman guy too……..
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
cry, guy sounds the same and my fingers won't behave
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Thanks for the news John
It’s really great that Elam will retire a Bronco, just seems the right thing. Haited it when he left to Atlanta, but, it is what it is.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Every time I read something new about Dez Bryant
it increases my hope that we pass on the guy…. Let some other team deal with it…
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
Broncos NL =Truth
Besides, we can trade for him for just a 4th round draft pick from the Raiders in about 5 years after he hits rock bottom and decides to mature.
Abide, the dude does. Know you not, but comfort in that I take.
by TJ Johnson on Mar 31, 2010 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1 TJ!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Now that is solid draft strategy!
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
anyone know
why the eagles are working out Berry?
by black_knight101 on Mar 31, 2010 9:07 AM MDT reply actions
Forgot his cleats?
In all seriousness, if I’m holding a top 15 pick and some guy shows up without his cleats for THE interview of his life, I walk out. There’s no need to see anything else.
Step aside, my friend, I been doin' it for years.
Said sit on down, open ya eyes, say open up ya ears....
Thanks John
My threats to eat my shoe if the Broncos draft Dez Bryant feal increasingly…. irrelevant. Instead, I’ll make like the guys over DPO and re-do my car with tea party-style home-made stickers depicting a decapitated coach. Or maybe dragging around a mock McStoopid in effigy. Good grief, why would anybody gamble on Dez Bryant?
Speaking of tin foil hats, the latest thread at DPO (yes, I’m a masochist) takes up the topic of Tony Scheffler. Specifically, “hard working, overachieving” scrappy Tony Scheffler. Which is a funny line of argument, since it’s the exact opposite of how I see the guy. Why would anybody assume Scheffler lacks physical talent but makes up for it with grittitude and hard workity? Thinking, thinking…..
Doesn’t Dez Bryant just scream bust? He reminds me a lot of JaMarcus Russell or Gerard Warren. Gifted and aloof. Is football even a passion for these guys? Do they even like playing? I sure can’t tell.
With Marshall, at least you can see that he loves playing and is overly emotional about it.
Even if we trade Marshall for a 7th round pick and Eddie Royal tears his ACL next week, I can’t see McDaniels asking Bowlen to stroke a huge check to Dez Bryant.
There are so many intriguing WRs in this draft… Why Dez Bryant when there is Tate, Benn, Shipley, Brisco, Riley, Thomas, LeFell, Decker, Williams, Mitchell, Gilyard, etc). I’d love Denver to add one of these guys in the mid rounds on a reasonable contract over Bryant (on any contract).
In my opinion.
by McGeorge on Mar 31, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s kind of fascinating, the way he’s a a train wreck. What really creeps me out is that he doesn’t seem to realize a lot of the stuff he does is iffy or weird — I don’t see the guy trying to CYA, even half-heartedly.
I differ with you about the on-field value of Brandon Marshall. But the one thing that warms me to him every time is that he clearly likes football. He comes across as kind of unhinged and goofy — almost like a younger Rex Ryan, with bigger problems — but it’s just so clearly based on enjoying the game and moment.
McX’s fixation on gamers and smart guys is going to cause them to skip some people we all like, and place a higher value on many players the league is not enamored of. That’s the downside. The up side is that there’s no way they draft a WR in the first round. Probably not in the second. And there’s no way a spectacular mess of a dude like this even makes it near their short board.
Dez Bryante = the perfect Cincinnati Bengal.
Spectacular Mess.........simply awesome, chi
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Dez Bryante = the perfect Cincinnati Bengal.
That’s funny ‘cause Josh Kirkendall, lead blogger at SB Nation’s Cincinnati Bengals blog, Cincy Jungle, agrees with you. Link
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Sure didn't
Ol’ Josh K can’t even hold a candle to you when it comes to that :~)
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
“Lack of focus and preparation is an indication of a player’s work-ethic. That’s just me, but the more time goes by, the less and less I want Bryant on the Broncos.”
You and are lock step when it comes to Bryant. I’d be shocked and depressed if we spend a 1st round pick on this player.
In my opinion.
Elite prospect + position of need = great 1st round investment.
The National Football Post (a source I respect) gave Pouncey a 7.5 ranking, which is the same score they gave Suh, Berry, McCoy and McClain.
I really think Denver will strongly consider Pouncey at #11 and that may be the primary reason we have not addressed O-line in FA. I think Denver has known all along that no one will take him in the Top 10 and we’d have dibs at 11.
If we have him graded as an elite prospect (like NFP), why not draft him at 11? To me, it seems like even the #1 overall pick is not too high to add an elite prospect at any position (save punter). In Denver’s case, at a position of great need at pick 11. It is almost a no brainer.
In my opinion.
by McGeorge on Mar 31, 2010 11:20 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Sound Post, McG
I would be fine with that move. Even better, some team is slobbering to move up to 11 from 15 or 16 and we can trade back and get the same.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I'd really like McLain to be on the board and see us trade with the Giants
More picks for us
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
You describe a best case scenario. If we are able to draft Pouncey later in round 1 and pick up an additional pick or player… Of course! Yes please! I’ll eat my shoe just because I’d happy and anything would taste good at that point.
But I sure hope Denver doesn’t do the whole positional value bit rather than focus on taking a great player at any position. I know that C doesn’t get drafted in the Top half of round 1. I see the facts and trends. But I don’t get it!
Why draft a guy like Morgan or Baluga when you think Pouncey is just as good a prospect. I know he doesn’t play DE or OT. But he is great at football, he could start for the next decade. So take the guy, regardless of his position. And Denver also has a luxury of not drafting in the Top 5 overall where contracts are simply retarded. The 11th pick is financially demanding, but it’s not an albatross like a Top 5 pick deal. Not even close. Denver is probably thrilled to be paying Clady 12 overall money for the next several years.
I hate when teams pass on guys like Patrick Willis to take dudes like Jamal Anderson or Gains Adams because those guys play a glory position like DE vs ILB. It doesn’t make any sense to me.
Pouncey is awesome. He is was the winner of the 2009 Rimington Trophy, awarded annually to the nation’s top center. He did this playing SEC ball vs the best college players every week. He doesn’t even turn 21 until July. He still has mucho upside. He could be our starting C for the next 13 years. I think it is almost a no brainer unless a guy like Berry or Haden drops.
I’m stoked with the 11 pick BTW. It makes me angry when I hear people saying there is no one we need at 11. RUBBISH. Maybe I’m crazy, but Pouncey at 11 makes A TON of sense to me. I disagree with anyone that says otherwise.
In my opinion.
by McGeorge on Mar 31, 2010 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions 5 recs
+1
I’m all for Puncey at 11 if we can’t trade back a few spots. I don’t see Puncey lasting past the Steelers at 18. A trade back would be ideal, but even if that’s not a possibility, I say draft Pouncey at 11. He’s a great C prospect and would fill our biggest need. A reach of 7 spots to take an elite prospect who fills your biggest need is justified.
If Berry falls to us, then we go that route. If not I say take Pouncey. We need a dominant O Line. We have several pieces already in place. Pouncey would be a critical piece to getting our O Line where it needs to be. I don’t want a good to great O Line. I want an elite O Line that is feared throughout the league.
Pouncey & Jerry in 2010!!!!!
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Great comment
Rec’d. I’m in the same boat…there’s good stuff at 11 and we should pick who ever is going to help us most if we can’t trade down
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
yep yep
if McX likes pouncy and berry doesn’t drop…. I love the pick!! If we could trade down and safely get him, even better.
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 31, 2010 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree we need the Center of the Future
Pouncey has a tremendous upside and I love the fact that he’d at least provide some stiff competition for the starting OC job. In all fairness, Dustin Fry could surprise us, but we can’t count on that.
Perhaps we could trade down from the #11 spot, as I agree that is a bit high to draft an OC, but like elvisalex has said in other posts, we are fairly desparate for good players to fortify our interior O-line.
The only critique I’ve heard on Pouncey (and would love it if someone could validate this) is that he has struggled against big NTs in college. I’ve heard in another thread on Mocking the Draft, that JD Walton would do better against big men in the NFL.
What I like about Pouncey, I posted in another thread recently:
Pouncey made all the calls for the FL Gators’ OL and they used the spread offense under coach Saban. As a result, he’s already somewhat familiar with the offense Denver’s trying to run, has intelligence for his desired position, and has a big enough frame to allow adding some muscle mass. Remember, he’s entered the draft early, and is only 20 years old, which means he’ll be a growing boy for the next 5 years.
I think if he does in any way struggle against NTs, he can definitely add some muscle mass to his existing frame, which will more than support it, in my opinion. I say we go get him whether we can trade down or not.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Wes Bunting over at NFP has Pouncey
Ranked at #4 on the 30 top prospects list. I think that could certainly help to justify picking him at 11. Plus he can also play guard, which, is what he and his brother were brought ot Florida to play originally. He was moved to center out of need and excelled at it. He does have a tendacy to end up on his butt once in while, but I think this would be a great selection. That would certainly give room to pick up a great OG in the 2nd or 3rd round to complement him. Or even use him at guard and pick up Tennant or Walton to play center…….
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
I’d be very happy with Pouncey too, even at #11, and even happier (as TJ mentioned) if we could trade down a few spots and still pick him up.
I don’t think it is worth the risk, but I’d love it to happen.
I think Pouncey is one of the few players that will be targeted in a trade up scenario. The kid is just 20 years old and already the best C in college football. He has All Pro potential as no current NFL C came into the NFL with this much hype. I don’t know about you, but I enjoyed the Nalen years. I don’t get why C is a low value NFL position. Seems like a damn important job to me. Calling out assignments and touching the ball on every play. Hell, the 2009 game with Cleveland was turned on a C to QB fumble.
11th overall my friend. It’s good value, even if the MSM says otherwise. Trust me, even if I’m not a Doctor.
In my opinion.
I don’t get why C is a low value NFL position.
I don’t either. Especially with all of the teams moving to a 3-4 defense. We need a beast at C to handle all of those big NTs.
As was evidenced from the Broncos last year. Interior O Line play is just as crucial as the T positions. It makes no sense to draft a certain way just to follow some antiquated tradition. If he’s our guy, pull the trigger. Precedence has to be set some time. I’m sure McX wouldn’t hesitate to set that precedence either if they see that as the best way to improve our team.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
value of Centers
Their value has been increasing, IMO, and bigger Centers are now needed. LINK
I had another article on the need for bigger Centers but I can’t find it, but the article linked above is pretty good.
The question on Pouncey (who I liked even before he declared) is not merely a positional question. Centers are worth more now but it doesn’t necessarily follow that we should draft Pouncey at #11, but waiting has it’s risks and it may be difficult and expensive to move into the correct range to draft him.
I’m not quite on board with draft him at #11 strategy, and it’s not tradition (they did draft them early in 60s) but impact. I could see us waiting till 2011 (after missing on Pouncey) and going for Wisniewski or O’Dowd.
no goats, no glory.
Centers gaining value in the draft
I see it coming from two angles.
The first angle is that as the NFL evolves, EVERY position is getting caught up in the metrics of size and speed. It used to be that a center had to be smart above all, now that just isn’t enough.
The second angle is that there are more and more prostyle coaches in college, and Centers are coming out more prepared than ever before to contribute at an elite NFL level.
Note that in both cases I make an assumption about the draft and what constitutes “value” in a draft-marketplace: size and athleticism.
As far as I can see, the NFL Draft is primarily about slotting athleticism and size. Oh, player’s with elite levels of experience such as McClain can blur the distinctions in their little neck of the draft woods, but almost every single player is slotted by round according to size and athleticism.
Applying this to centers, athleticism, while important was never as significant as it is for many other positions, thus those positions higher annual draft value. It has always been rare for any but the most exceptional centers to be drafted sooner than the second round. But as the NFL gets bigger, and faster, even the center position can’t hold out on intelligence alone. The top ones are athletic and versatile enough to threaten the draft values of top WRs, RBs, LBs. Note that they are nowhere close to the value of top OTs, top DL, top DBs or the ever enigmatic QBs.
I should note that the best drafters (the polians, Ozzies, perhaps our own McX) are not beholden to the old model of “slot according to size and athleticism” which, too, is a development of the overall game, but on a more philosophical level.
I should also note that the value of centers at the top of the draft makes an interesting segue into discussing the evolution of roster math in the bigger, faster NFL. Unfortunately I just don’t have the time for a topic that big right now… :(
There's a big hard sun, beating on the big people, in the big hard world.
formerly Styg-like
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 31, 2010 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions
btw who doesn't love what Haggan has brought to the team?
thanks for the vids! Could’ve done without the NY hat!!
Thanks, John.
I love the Jarvis Green interview. And I love the player, too. Definitely the sort of player I want on the Broncos!
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
"Brandon Marshall isn't as good as you think he is." - a random hobo I met
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 31, 2010 5:02 PM MDT reply actions
Just a reminder that I drafted Pouncey in the SBNation Mock Draft last week!! :)
-TSG
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