Brandon Marshall's trip to Seattle gets the ball rolling
by John Bena on Mar 5, 2010 1:17 PM MST
in 2010 Denver Broncos Offseason
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PrintBy now we know that Brandon Marshall is headed to Seattle to meet with the Seahawks tomorrow. There is obviously some connection in Seattle for Marshall with former Broncos OC Jeremy Bates running things for Pete Carroll. What comes next is anyone's guess, but goes back to the crux of why the Broncos placed the 1st Round Tender on Marshall to begin with.
First, the Seahawks could sign Marshall to an offer sheet straight up. The Broncos would have 7-days to match it. This would put free agency on hold for both teams, in a lot of ways. If the Broncos decline to match, the Seahawks would give up the 6th pick in the 2010 NFL Draft. Despite having 2 picks, the 'Hawks cannot decide which pick to give up in the event of a non-matched qualifying offer.
Should Seattle really want to hold on to the 6th pick, the Broncos and Seahawks could begin talks on a trade of Marshall's tender. That would send Marshall's rights to Seattle for another package - say the 14th picks and G Rob Sims, as Sayre offered up in his earlier Fan Shot. That would allow the Seahawks to negotiate at their own pace with Marshall with little outside interference.
This is all preliminary of course. There will likely be other teams and other offers. The point, however, is the Broncos will like for the BEST DEAL in regards to what to do with Marshall. Right now, at worst, the team is looking at the 6th pick in the Draft - or 14th pick. Can the Broncos go any higher? Time will tell
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Peoples opinions are all over the place on this subject...
What are your thoughts Guru? Do you think we meet the offer? or take one of their picks?
The Great GuessKowski Has Spoken!!!
Maybe that Crystal Ball was working better than I thought!!!
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
This was what it had to say back in January
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Mar 5, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
Stupid link...
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/1/6/1235578/the-great-guesskowski-and-his
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Mar 5, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Guesskowski,
That was impressive. If you get this and the Scheffler trade correct, I suspect we are going to have to accuse you of being a Bronco staffer.
You’ve got skills, man!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Marshall to Seahawks makes too much sense
to be a great prediction. Pete Carrol took on all comers at USC. Marshall is the type of risk Pete Carroll would take and Jeremy Bates is their offensive coordinator. This was the only scenario that looked viable. I do want Branch in the deal. Now the Scheffler trade would be a great prediction.
no Branch
I’d rather have Mckinnely starting.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Would the broncos want to even go as high as the 6th pick
$$$$$$$$$. Unfortunately, I would love it but I believe the main reason they traded their first rounder this yearv for Seattles second round last year was $$$$$$$$.
b314, I thought it was for Alphonso Smith
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
If draft from that slot...
then I hope we grab Eric Berry. Dude would be a force for years to come.
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
John, forgive me if you've already addressed this,
but Alex brings up a pretty valid question. If the team truly wants the BEST deal, why would they not have addressed the 1st and 3rd tender?
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
*applied*, not addressed
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Don't think anyone... including Seattle would have bit on that...
The first round tender brought buyers to the table… and so that gave both the Broncos and Marshall the ability to assess his real value based on actual market pressure. Remember, Denver can always match the offer.
You also have to remember that Boldin has been calling for a big contract, and so the Cards shopped him last year and this. A second didn’t even pull any suitors for him, and now the buzz is he could be had for a 3rd. Marshall is a better receiver that Boldin, but the market demand may not be as high as these agents and WR’s would like to think.
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Mar 5, 2010 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
That makes sense.
But I think (or hope) someone would have bitten at a first and a third. It’s hard to say, because Beast’s value was such a roller coaster from training camp, to the DAL and IND games, then to the last week of the season.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
They might have....
If we hadn’t shown our hand the last week of the season and shown what a dysfunctional mess BM is.
If BM is allowed to quietly have a bad hammy the last week and finish up with his 100 catches and a “turnaround” season…then yes I think someone may have bitten on the 1st and 3rd. When McD threw his little hissy fit in front of the media, his trade value tanked.
Just my opinion.
agreed.
yet another short-sighted choice. if we’d have played Marshall, no one would know about his continued issues. heck, we wouldn’t either! everyone would probably think he’d turned the corner still, and we’d be looking at better/more offers.
crazy.
he wasn’t going to play anyway!
why do people keep missing this point? He had already pulled himself from playing in the game. He said he was too injured to play.
The same doctors who told him the year before that his hip was fine too...right?
And no, he had NOT benched himself. That is a myth that floats around here without basis in fact. He had said maybe, he had not ruled himself out yet.
“In fact, according to Frank Schwab of the Colorado Springs Gazette, McDaniels believes Marshall can play, but won’t fight through a "slight" injury other players fight through regularly.”
Where is your source?
Where in thaqt quote did BM say he wasn't going to play?
I have a complete lack of sources that have BM quoted as saying “I will not play”.
He was in the training room rehabbing when McD pulled the plug.
If he won’t fight through it, he isn’t going to play.
If he would fight through it, then he would play.
How about the quote that says BM will not play in the game?
CS Gazette December 31
Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, who doesn’t like talking about injuries, didn’t say whether Marshall will play this week.
"I don’t know," McDaniels said. "We’ll see."
ESPN, January 1
Denver Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall, who is nursing a hamstring injury, is expected to play Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs, a team source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.
You can’t find a quote from BM or the team saying that he wouldn’t play because it doesn’t exist. What you can find is McD saying that this is not an injury problem, this is a coaching decision. That is fine, but he has to accept the consequences and the heat from those decisions.
He missed Thursday’s practice, and when asked if his star receiver would work out Friday, McDaniels said Marshall would be deactivated for the game and noted it was “a coaching decision,” not an injury issue.
All I am saying is that there was no need to publicize the “benching”. Let him sit out the week as injured and then trade his butt.
“McDaniels indicated Marshall doesn’t want to play with slight hamstring pull. "
I don’t know how else you can interpret that
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/01/01/marshall-out
I don't care how to interpret that...but it doesn't say that Marshall had declared himself out.
my point is that even if he couldn’t play, you don’t have to bench him.
The only thing McD’s public statment did was to hold a big “Dear God take this guy off my hands CHEAP” sign over Marshall’s head.
Yeah, but,
There was more to it than that. In another article, it was stated that the senior team members and captains were asked if they supported benching Marshal and they agreed.
GO BRONCOS!!!
Actually, it was a different doctor and a different situation
Ponderosa made this point at the time and he was right – hips are far more complex and things that are wrong may not show on MRIs. Hammies are easy to diagnose and do show up if there is a problem. It’s sort of basic medicine.
But the real point is being missed. Veterans including Dawkins and DJ came to McD about some problems in the locker room. Scheffler had talked openly about how he couldn’t wait for the end of the season, and other people were losing their center and focus. They asked McD to intervene, and after thinking about it, he did.
Seriously – which part ofthe locker room to you keep happy? The guys who are complaining and harming the attitude or the ones who you trust as leaders on the team? It seems kind of simple to me, but opinions do vary.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Which part of the Lockerroom are you keeping happy,
By picking a fight and benching a guy who can’t play anyway for the last game of the season?
What good did that do? How did the Broncos get better because McD called BM a faker in front of the press?
They didn’t. It caused drama and dropped Marshall’s trade value.
So...I am not a doctor, but I have had a hamstring pull.
How would a Grade 1 hamstring injury look under an MRI? If there was no tear, could you see the injury?
I pulled a hamstring at football camp my Junior year of HS and played on it through the entire season. Probably the worst season of my life because I had no strength on that leg and no matter what I did to fix it, it would come back during the games. It idid not go away until after the football season and I didn’t have to exercise it anymore.
One advantage of the MRI is that it can see fluid - swelling
So, yes, you would see it. Marshall was just being Marshall.
Whidbey, I understand what you’re saying, and I agree in part – bad all around when you have to discipline players. However – one of the best rules in any kind of business is that you keep consistent. When you have a player out of line, end of season, training camp, mid season – you have to deal with it the same way that you would any other player at any other time. That’s a key point in the approach that has worked so well in NE and it’s what McD learned there – Brady took lots of crap from the coaches, just like everyone else. Every player has to be on point and working hard to win or he gets disciplined. It’s just the system.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Thanks Doc...I guess I have no problem with benching him privately...
But with the injury, there was certainly no reason to air the dirty laundry in public.
That is my only point.
i want to agree with miner but going against Dawk & Baily?
it must have been bad.
Funny thing is keeping the oldsters happy at the risk of alienating young talent…. bad all around
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 5, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
hahaha
You just can’t help yourself, can you. Well, you’re consistent, I’ll say that.
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 5, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
ok.
anything substantiative to add to the discussion, or are we just taking thinly veiled shots at me?
Nothing that you’d find “substantive”, I’d wager.
by AllBroncsallday on Mar 5, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
And forgive my ignorance
But was Boldin a RFA in any of those seasons, or was he under contract and simply demanding a trade?
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Boldin got a sweet deal...
Only to see Fitzgerald get a monster deal…
-TSG
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I wholly disagree on the talent evaluation. Boldin is a far better receiver than Marshall. I really don’t even think it’s that close. But no matter what you think of that debate, the fact that a very good replacement for Marshall is available for that draft compensation, tells you why it makes little sense to go oveboard in compensating the guy.
Wait, you lost me...
Is Boldin the ‘very good replacement’ you’re talking about?
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
I think he’s better than that, but let’s say you (not you, ncm42 — the generic you) belong to the class of folks who thinks that Marshall is somehow one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL. The availability of someone nearly as good for a second-day pick says a lot about the wisdom of throwing a huge contract at Marshall.
I agree completely!
And thanks for using the ‘generic’ you. I’m wholly in the camp that thinks at this moment, Beast is a very good possession receiver with potential.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
AND
I hope my question didn’t come across as snarky. I was just asking for clarification because I couldn’t really follow who was talking about whom…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
It didn’t come across snarky. I tried to say too much with too few words, as usual, and the pronouns got massively confusing.
hahahahhah
I do that ALL the time. I post what I feel is a masterpiece. Then I read it and think, “WTF am I even trying to say?” Point in case, I think Beast is a very good possession receiver with potential, but NOT a top 5 WR.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
And shows why getting a first for
a WR with more issues that Boldin could be a coup for us.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Boldin is about to get traded
And not to us
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
For a heck of a lot less than a 1st, I might add.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Would Seattle
Sign Marshall to a contract if they had to give up #6 and #40?
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 5, 2010 1:49 PM MST up reply actions
They might. Or someone else might bite.
Why did Jerry Jones give up what he did for Roy Williams? Why has Dan Snyder overspent on so many over-the-hill, washed up players that no one else wanted? Why did Al Davis….never mind, you probably don’t have all day to read….
My point is, it only takes one, and you never know what owner or front office will lose their minds in FA’s early hours. Especially with a coach like Pete Carroll, who is eager to make a splash…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
On the other side of that coin/argument
Look at all the great players that have been had for cheap or next to nothing. A lot more of those!
by OC Bronco Fan on Mar 5, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
JB
Sims and the 14th pick would be a great pickup for a great player who happens to have a great deal of issues.
Like I posted last night, the fact that BMarsh is one step away from a lengthy suspension makes a long-term contract with us extremely unlikely, and to get any value out of him, we need to consider a trade as soon as we can.
BMarsh will of course be a huge, huge loss to our team, but with an improved OL (Sims, along with the possibility of Iupati, Pouncey, John Jerry in the draft, and the likes of Hadnot as a FA), we could commit to a powerful run attack. Another option might be to keep our two 1st rounders and send a 2nd pick to Arizona for Anquan Boldin as was mooted last night and reiterated on this very thread. And that 2nd rounder could be replaced if we get something for Scheff.
So many conundurums, so many options. All football fans love this time of year – every team has realistic aspirations – Jeez, look at the Lions! If they could play as well as they’ve started free agency…..Good post.
If we did get the 6th pick..
It would be equal in value to a first round pick below no.9 and any third rounder.
truly ironic
let me get this straight:
Last offseason: We trade the eventual 14th pick for Alphonso Smith.
This offseason: We consider it fair value to that pick BACK plus a middling lineman for Brandon Flippin Marshall?!
My god, how I hated and still hate that trade. Just an awful use of resources, to say nothing of Alphonso Smith’s failure to contribute. He could still turn it around and he’s super nice, I get it, but the very fact this possibility is on the table is astonishing. We had this pick and gifted it away for 20 cents on the dollar. Now we’re doing it again?
Short sighted and over optimistic, that’s what we are these days. If I was Seattle I’d ask if we’d trade Clady for the 6th overall — we seem to be giving them everything else…
by thedoctor on Mar 5, 2010 1:52 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
agreed
Alphonso Smith trade was a monumental failure
Too soon.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 5, 2010 1:58 PM MST up reply actions
Yep, bad gamble
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Alphonso Smith was drafted to fill in as a nickel back.
his draft profile said as much. People need to stop looking at draft pick positions and look at what we wanted and what we got. Smith was rated a 1st-2nd round pick…we traded away a future first rounder for an early second rounder. do I hate Seattle for being douchebags? yes. Do I blame McD for going after the players he wanted? No.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Mar 5, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
I don't blame him for taking a risk for a guy he wanted at all! Love his heart.
But folks dog Shanny for wasting a third on M Clarette (sp?) …if a first turns out to be way too much for AS, McD deserves three times the criticism! Correct?
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 5, 2010 2:11 PM MST up reply actions
NO
Because Smith might actually turn out to be a good player, despite some here who have buried him months ago. Whether it was worth the 1st round pick or not is a different question than whether he will be a good player. Clarett was a terrible draft pick from the moment it was made. He was chosen way too high for a guy with a ton of red flags. If he should’ve been drafted at all it should’ve been in the 7th round. That was a terrible pick and he was a bust right in training camp.
In my opinion McD is taking way MORE criticism than he deserves especially this early, not less.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
by underdog on Mar 5, 2010 8:39 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
that’s exactly why i hate the trade. we traded a 1st round pick for an unproven nickel back (that sucked even in that role, btw). 1st round picks should not be thrown away for gambles, nor for minor role players.
I do blame McD for going after the players he wants. He’s like a kid in a candy store. He’d pay the 100 dollars his grandpa just gave him for that chocolate bar because he REALLY WANTS IT RIGHT NOW.
What?
that’s exactly why i hate the trade. we traded a 1st round pick for an unproven nickel back (that sucked even in that role, btw). Aren’t all rookies unproven? You are just throwing out trash now.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
Wow...maybe you and the doctor should start your own franchise....
You sure seem to know a lot with hindsight!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Well...I don't know about the doctor,
But I thought is was a bad idea last year as well.
And in hindsight, he wasn't a situational cornerback...
he constituted the left end of the bench. Replaced by a retiree and an UFA.
No...but what we will ultimately get in return would have been higher.
If McD bites his tongue and tells the media that Brandon has a bad Hammy that will keep him out of the game, then you have a ProBowl receiver coming off of a 100 catch season in the prime of his career who has overcome early season troubles to play his heart out for the team.
Instead, we have a injury faking, whiner who is not a team player that can’t get along with his head coach.
Which of these two players is going to garner more value in trade?
I understand what your saying
And I sorta agree with you, especially with keeping things in house. However, at the end of the day I dont think its going to matter. Some teams just seem to over look these things. Cincinatti is famous for it. Looks like Pete Carroll could be too.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I agree that someone will take him...
The question is what do we get out of the deal.
IMO – We lost at least a 2nd round pick because of the blowup in the media room.
I always thought
due to the strength of this draft that 2 two’s wouldve been better off for Denver anyway.
My suggestion is the players Denver truly are targeting will be available in the 2nd round.
I’m not really big on having another high 1st round pick. I’m a huge believer in just cause you were drafted in the 1st round doesnt necessarily mean your production will exceed any other drafted player.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Wasn't Ryan Leaf a 1st rounder? #2 Pick overall?
How did that work out? Last I heard he was in jail . . .
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
Jarvis Moss
being picked in the first round does not guarantee anything at all, which is why people argue so passionately about this. Like the people who are in man-love with Tebow who think we should take him, they would be happy to have draft picks instead of players, in which case the value picks higher than they do Marshall, per se, and then you have the people, who are not wrong, that believe that proven commodoties are better than a mountain of draft picks. So in the end we all have opinions and will be angry with each other until a few weeks after the draft, because we’ll all be upset one way or another about the draft for some amount of time.
Hey, HSBC
Nice to see you around. How’ve you been?
You know, the simple fact is that Smith matches the Broncos mold for a cornerback well, ran several 4.3 40’s, (Which makes the whole slow thing a huge exaggeration) and was rated late 1st, early second round. If folks haven’t read on the point of a pick during one draft being worth one round different than trading it for a different draft, that’s fine, but there’s lots to read on the pattern.
Yes, lots of folks hated the pick. However – saying that you ‘know’ how a player will work out is kind of shaky at best, especially with Smith’s college production. You didn’t know. You believed, and you probably hoped, since most of us prefer being right to a player doing well, but no one knew. McD made a choice. That one hasn’t worked out yet. It might, might now. After one year, we still don’t know.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
and your point is?
damn folks! Are we here to be augmentative or discuss. Everyone in the world knows a first is more likely to pan out than a second. MORE LIKELY that’s it.
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 5, 2010 5:00 PM MST up reply actions
What I disagree is his assessment of value and risk
That somehow betting a future first round pick would be worth less than a 2nd round pick last year. Last years draft had a lot of boom or bust prospects and not much depth, this year’s draft has tons of depth. A. Smith coming out this year would likely be a 3rd rounder maybe, Bobby Bethard was famouos for doing that stupid crap and selling away future picks for guys he liked today, it worked in WA somewhat, and helped make SD a laughing stock.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Maybe, but what do you do now?
I tend to agree that A Smith did not live up to 1st rounder expectations. But that is yesteryears snow. What do you do now – not make any trades? Learn from your mistakes and move on – there is a team to build.
by si_ice on Mar 5, 2010 2:17 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
totally agreed. which is why I’m furious that we’re stuck selling Marshall for that same 20 cents on the dollar.
All things considered, this is the right choice for this very moment. Marshall is a bad apple and we can’t utilize him properly. I’m just highlighting the incredible lack of foresight that got us here. Truly astonishing.
So Marshall is worth FIVE FIRST ROUND PICKS THEN?
I think our different evaluation of talent may make a productive conversation impossible.
Marshall being a bad
apple, SEVERLY, reduces his trade value.
Five firsts? You gotta be kidding? Moss who has better character and more talent, went for a 4th. Anquan Boldin who only wanted a new contract is available for a 3rd now. Dallas overpaying for Roy Williams is the last big haul a WR has brought. Lately you haven’t been able to give away wideouts wanting new big contracts, much less ones with character concerns.
In my opinion, Denver is pulling off a coup getting a 1st based on past trades of troubled WRs wanting new, huge deals.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Mar 5, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
You nailed it on the head Randall . . .
The Broncos getting a 1st rounder for a malcontent that is not a top 5 receiver is absolutely a coup. I guess I don’t see how people dont’ realize this.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
by HSFBCoach on Mar 5, 2010 3:36 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
300 catches in 3 years
we simply must replace this value on a team with zero star power
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 5, 2010 5:02 PM MST up reply actions
Wait, if we get Berry, does this mean no Myron Rolle? :-\
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 5, 2010 1:55 PM MST reply actions
I know...
But his brains make me go: O.O
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 5, 2010 1:59 PM MST up reply actions
and wasn't there a crowd of people
saying we traded this pick so we didn’t have to pay 2 1st rounders this year? Guess that’s blown out of the water.
I really have no idea what this team is up to. Every move seems less planned and more reactionary than the last.
the doctor
When did McD or Xanders every say it was about Value? Maybe the fans did but they did not. And if we trade B-Marsh for the #6 and trade back and pickup another #2 or #3 it will be well worth it. I did not like the trade for A Smith, but I also did not like the numerous 1st round draft picks that were busts under shanny and about %50 of all other coaches and teams. A Smith is not a bust and there are no guarentees the #14 pick would have turned out to be a non-bust player. Think about it.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
huh? I'm talking to the posters not McD or McX!
What does Shanny have to with that pick? A reference to OTHER picks that sucked? And the likelihood of the #14 being a bust? We’ll never know now will we?
Think about it.
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 5, 2010 2:15 PM MST up reply actions
i was referring to the crowd around here that said that was the true reason, despite McD or Xanders never saying that.
- picks have a much higher chance of success, just look at the draft stats. there was a huge risk taken by trading a 1st for a 2nd. they thought we’d be better, and that 1st would be lower than it was. and they thought Alphonso Smith would be better than he was. There’s no certainties, but my gosh, why take that huge risk for so little return? the risk/reward ratio keeping the pick was SO much better.
I was castigated a year ago for disagreeing with the short sighted and extreme risk, and guess what? They were wrong, and the groupthink here was wrong.
by thedoctor on Mar 5, 2010 2:18 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
And dont get me wrong I was upset also when we made the trade, but you and whidbeybronco talk like Smith is a bust because he did not tear it up in year 1. Give it time and evlauate it later.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
by The 3 Amigos on Mar 5, 2010 2:32 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
sure
and like i said, he could still turn it around. but it sure ain’t likely either. i wonder what stats are on guys that show nothing their first year…
Let’slook at Nnamdi Asomugha’s first year:
2003-15games, 1 game started 28 tackles and 0 INT"s.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
the doctor and whidbeybronco
Look at it this way, yeah we are all upset at giving up a 2nd for a 1st, but if Smith was in this draft based on college stats he would be top 2-3 behind Hayden and Maybe Wilson from Boise st, and would probably be a 1st round 20-32 pick.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
no way.
With all due respect I doubt Smith goes anywhere near the end of round 1.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
If he was an inch taller, he'd go ahead of Jenkins.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 5, 2010 2:48 PM MST up reply actions
totally disagree
with his size and speed I’d guess him projected even lower. A 1st rounder? Never.
Not saying he’s a failure yet though! he just looks that way!
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 5, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
How do you know he wouldn't be?
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
i would say the fact that he dropped to the 2nd a year earlier gives me a bit more evidence than you.
but if you’re asking for certainties, there’s none because he’s not available this year and we’ll never know. you brought up this unprovable point as support though, so i rolled with it…
Mel Kipers Take
It shows Smith was drafted where he belonged last year, but it also states after Hayden there are no other real good corners and I feel and seems Kiper might as well he would be next in line. And you know corners never last long in the draft.
Richard (Greensboro, NC)
How would you compare Alphonso Smith, who the Broncos spent a first round pick to get, to the corners coming out this year?
Mel Kiper (1:14 PM)
The CBs this year are not great. It’s not a phenomenal year for CBs. The top guy is Joe Haden, a junior from Florida. You had Malcom Jenkins and Vontae Davis as the two high profile picks last year. Smith was the fifth CB taken. Smith was not considered any better than a second round pick. Smith was a playmaker, great ball skills, return man. But his size was a big deterrent. I don’t like giving up future first round picks, but after Joe Haden this year, there are no other highly regarded CBs. Patrick Robinson is the top senior CB. The best football player is Javier Arenas. But the problem is he’s barely 5-9 and he has very very questionable recovery speed. He’s an outstanding punt returner. I like him a lot. If you can get him in the fourth round area, he’ll be a nice pick for you.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
Thats a good find
However, I do believe you have to take it with a grain of salt. Kiper track record is average at best.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
his is about 60%, which in his business is pretty much as good as it gets
But I totally agree with you. Unless it comes straight from his hair specifically, I view his takes with skepticism.
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 5, 2010 3:25 PM MST up reply actions
Trevor Pryce
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 5, 2010 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
regardless of whether the move worked or didn't...
the fact remains that we’re dealing with a new deck of cards. Can’t change the past, let’s make the best deal possible today.
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
true, but it’s still worth discussing imo. The Broncos must learn from these failures, and we as fans do too.
I’m very concerned the Broncos will continue to make poor trades like this.
i'm almost positive the front office
will not see Phonz as a failure yet. By year 2 or 3, they will know how well the move panned out (e.g., we can agree that Jarvis Moss is a bust now). I also believe you don’t go into last season believing Marshall acts up the way he did in preseason and final week of the season. I also think they learn from every personnel decision they make, good and bad. But just because you learn from a mistake or a miss, doesn’t mean you can guarantee future success all the time. There are simply too many variable involved (health, right fit, etc).
Nevertheless, it’s still healthy to question moves and try and figure out the best decisions moving forward.
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
The money is still saved
If they didn’t trade away the first last year, they would now have two firsts and either a big salary to Marshall or another (third) first round pick. Now we end up with two firsts or one and Marshall. Two is less than three.
Not that I necessarily agree that is why they made the trade.
OK, here would be an interesting situation
What if Seattle signs BM, and then trades their 6th pick for Donovan McNabb? I assume we would be left with the 14th pick?
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
They would not be allowed to do this
Based on what every major sports writer is saying they have to give us the #6 pick if they sign him to an offer sheet. The only way they can give us other compensation is if they work out a trade with the Broncos for something different
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
I am not so sure
I looked up the rules, and basically it says a 1st round pick, nothing in the rules says it has to be the teams first round pick, if the Seahawks were to make a trade for McNabb they could claim they were not sure if the Broncos would match and they still had the 14th pick in order to complete the BM deal if the Broncos did refuse to match.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Broncoman
I am pretty sure Bena and Scheffter said the teams “original” pick, therefore would be #6.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
According to the rules
In the CBA, the part that is still in effect, you can only trade your original pick or better. So therefore that can not happen.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 5, 2010 2:25 PM MST up reply actions
The entire CBA is still in effect
The owner’s opted out of extending the CBA for 2011 & 2012. That makes 2010 the final league year of the CBA.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
The problem with this situation
is that the “auction” ends with a simple signature (from Brandon). Of course it’s still possible that a changeup happens. I’m not saying everything is finalized. But as it stands, BM can sign a sheet tomorrow and our only options will be to match or not match.
I understand the argument that the lower tender will bring more action. But does anybody really think that Seattle wouldn’t have called us to get a feeler if we had placed the higher tender on him? Not even a phone call? Of course they would have. At that point, we could have negotiated a different arrangement. They would have come to us directly, instead of Brandon, so that we could lower the price. They couldn’t have signed an offer sheet, ending the auction, unless they were willing to pay the full price (the 1 and the 3). So, we would have been negotiating with them. Not Brandon. Not yet.
We could have asked for players instead of picks, or players plus picks. We could have kept reeling them in while waiting to see what other offers come to US. As it stands, we’re not even invited to the table.
Of course Seattle could still offer us more. But why? The only real reason they would do such a thing is to buy a guarantee that we won’t match. Do they really think we’re going to match? Many of you still cling to that notion. And I get it. I get the idea so many of you had yesterday that we’re just waiting to match after our competitor does our negotiating for us. But I, for one, certainly think Brandon’s gone.
I don’t hate the front office. I just think they made a strategic mistake in order to get rid of a headache. The best way I can see this turning out now, would be for Brandon to demand too much… for the word to get out… then he’ll likely have to come crawling back to us eventually. But keep in mind… Before yelling at me and saying, “Bam! That’s what I’m talking about! Showing him his worth worked!” Well, just don’t. That scenario would play out the same regardless of the starting price. If BM wants too much, he wants too much. The starting tender was still a mistake.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Mar 5, 2010 1:59 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
To add to your point
Seattle could try to get a guarantee we don’t match without even contacting the front office. All they have to do is insert one of the ‘poison pill’ clauses in the offer they present to Beast.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
That Poison Pill thing
does not work anymore. That was a salary cap thing
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
Oh, good point.
Dunno how I forgot about the whole ‘no salary cap’ thing!
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Poison Pills wont work anymore
But front loading contracts will work. The only thing keeping Seatlle from not front loading a huge contract wouldve been to add the 3rd round pick. That keeps the negotiations honest.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I don't understand
how the salary cap has anything to do with a poison pill. The poison pills were provisions that guaranteed the whole contract under some rediculous scenario that only the potentially matching team would have, like playing more than five games in a year in Denver. I don’t think there is anything stopping them from doing that now. It wasn’t about making the contract particularly cap unfriendly.
Because previously a team could not match such
a deal containing a “poison pill” without adversely affecting their salary cap. Basically, putting you between a rock and a hard place (lose player vs. salary cap issues). However, without a salary cap it’s hard to adversely affect it.
They could still use such a clause, but no longer to the same effect.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
The Burleson poison pill said
If he plays more than five games in Minnesota in a year, his full contract becomes guaranteed. Meaning they have to pay him all of it, even if they cut him. It was not any impact on the salary cap that made it bad. It was that all of the money became guaranteed. They could say, if Marshall plays five games in Denver, his whole 5-year, 75 million dollar contract or whatever becomes guaranteed. So while Seattle would only have to pay him 20 million guaranteed or whatever, Denver would have to pay all 75, which would be the most guaranteed money ever given to any player ever.
I would be shocked if at a time the owners
are complaining about money they would try such a move.
But I guess they could pull that. In which case we sit back and pocket the 6th pick.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
I'm not saying it would happen
but it doesn’t cost the team doing it anything. It just greatly increases the chance that the offer won’t be matched. But you’re right, Seattle isn’t going to do this because they don’t want to give up the 6th pick.
Again you are assuming you
are smarter then the rest of us and McDaniels. This is why you are getting so much heat from people on this site. You are entitled to your opinion but that does not mean your opinion is the right one. You have no idea if someone would have called if we would have tendered him with a 1st and a 3rd. I think McDaniels and Xanders know a lot more about these negotions then anyone on this site. A lot of people may not like the end results and the compesation we recieve buy you will have to get over it.
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
You need to stop that
I understand fully how annoying and irritating it is to hear my arument over and over. But two sides to an argument do more good than holding hands. You need to stop saying I’m assuming I’m smarter than you, these folks, and McX. I don’t subscribe to the ‘If you can’t beat ‘em, join ’em’ club. And contending a point, detailing the reasons and debating with the opposition does not make me a know it all.
Again, I realize it’s annoying. But I’m not calling McD or X an idiot. Nor you. Nor anybody else on here. I’m not saying I’m smarter. I’m allowed to have my opinon. And I’ll continue to share it. So, stop acting like I called everyone stupid.
P.S. You have no idea if someone would have called if we would have tendered him with a 1st and a 3rd.
My opinion is that Seattle would have. I don’t even think you disagree.
Good luck with the Redskins Mr. Mike! I'll be watching and cheering for a non-Bronco team for the first time in my life. Well, except when they play the Broncos!
by Alex on Mar 5, 2010 2:16 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I do. Disagree that is.
No rebuilding team like Seattle is going to be willing to give up two high picks for one player. They have faaaaaaaaaar too many needs. OL, DL, Secondary, QB and WR. Way too much work to do in Seattle for them to justify two players for one.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
you need to relax
I said in my repy you are allowed to have your own opinion. Maybe I worded it wrong but the way you are wording your post makes you sound like you are talking down to people on the site. That is the point I was trying to make. I do not subscribe to the club you mention either. I think is is funny how many time the same topic is argued over on this site. There is so much repetitive behavior on MHR.
I personally think Marshall is worth more than a 1st but with his checkerd past I also think the Broncos will be hard pressed to get more. There is still a posibility we do get more. I do not think seattle will want to give up the #6 pick so I think they will try and negotiate a trade for multible picks possibly the #14 and a 3rd. We will have to wait and see
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 5:28 PM MST up reply actions
Question:
Do you not think they have discussed and thought about every possible eventuality and decided what was right for the situation? Do you not think that they have a far greater grasp of all the many different aspects of this that have led them to their decision?
O.k you don’t agree with it, but to call it wrong is to assume that they did not think about what the differences are between the two tenders, and that imo, is naive.
by HorseStance on Mar 5, 2010 2:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Elvis
I respect you. Your a tough nut to crack. Problen with a 1st and 3rd thing is maybe it scared Seattle away and a team lets say Baltimore, I know it wouldn’t be the case, You’d get the what #25 and #89ish. What is the better deal #6 or #25ish and #89ish.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 5, 2010 2:31 PM MST up reply actions
Yes.
But it’ll be difficult to tell how it goes, because Mawae says he won’t have to leave home to sign a deal. So we’ll likely not now unless the agent lets something slip or he signs with a team. He wants to be a starter, though, Hadnot may be a problem there.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 5, 2010 2:04 PM MST up reply actions
Nice.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
Matt Prater, pre-2009 season: Despised, lambasted, Josh McDaniels is derided for not replacing him.
Matt Prater, post-2009 season: Loved, praised, everone forgets the time when they called Josh McDaniels an idiot for not replacing him.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 5, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions
Potential? Dude is 39!
His potential is to go down fast, that’s it.
Elvisalex
For just the reason you stated is exactly why I believe the first round tender was given. At the combine, I believ that Denver really wanted to get rid of Marshall for the best posible deal and they gathered that a first rounder was about the going rate for him, and if there info was off, then other teams could certainly work to outbid each other add a pick or player or something to get Marsahll. I believe the first round tender was the right thing to do beacuse it wasn’t as limiting to move Marshall as a first and third tender
agreed. I don’t think that Seattle would have given up their #6 and a third.
by black_knight101 on Mar 5, 2010 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
The question we need to ask is
If this trade with Seattle goes down does the front office really want the 6th overall pick?
I know the fans do but I would think the owner does. Do we really need Berry or Haden? Can we afford either one of them? Thats a lot of money tied up into defensive backs. Is there anyone else projected to go there that Denver absolutely has to have?
Personally I think the 6th spot in the draft is probably the worst spot for Denver. We miss out on the big DT and I’m not keen on more high picks on defensive backs.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
sorry.. The owner doesnt want the pick.. or the front office. .
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I'm thinking
There are some franchises that would want to move up to get an OT, QB, or something that are at the end of the draft and they will trade a 1st and 2nd or 3rd to move up. Risky but I can see it.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Mar 5, 2010 3:04 PM MST up reply actions
Possibly
But like you said.. Its risky.. If Denver got stuck with no one to trade down to it would be a costly mistake.
However, If Denver parlayed that pick into a trade with Detroit for Brafford.. I could be on board with that :)
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I guarantee Denver is on the phone right now negotiating potential trades for the #6 pick
I would bet my paycheck that they are already working on a potential trade down with another team that is desperate to move up. If this trade goes down, don’t be surprised if Denver ends up with a lot more picks on their hands.
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
dont those types of deals usually come right before the draft
It would seem a little too early to make a major move like that. Plus, with all the confusion going on today (being the first day of FA) wouldnt you think it would make more sense to slow things down and let the dust settle. At that point you can spend the next few months promoting that pick to maximize value.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
you're right jstarr
trading picks right now is like tipping your cards, if you trade Denver for the 6th pick tomorrow after they acquire it, it will start to let other teams know what you are hoping to draft. That’s why the pick trades take place as that pick is on the clock draft day.
also
those type of deals are almost always contigent on a certain player being available. Teams don’t trade up just to hold the #6 position, they trade up for a player they want to take…. with alot of draft board shuffling still to happen with pro days, FA and what not. also with there being no certainty who will be available at #6 when the pick is on the clock anyways.
It would actually be shocking to think that teams are negotiating for the #6 pick.
an interesting dynamic
would be that if Seattle wants to rid themselves of the #6 pick, then they have the option to do that by signing an offer sheet. However if they are hoping to get a QB/OT….both enormous needs and there will be one or the other at #6 then they may value the #6 more then the #14
however, i think the better question is whether Seattle wants the #6 pick or not…..if they decide they dont want it, then they can force it on Denver without Denver getting a chance to decide
by DW76 on Mar 5, 2010 3:06 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
EXACTLY
finally the answer I was waiting for!!! thank you
By not adding that 3rd round tender to the offer sheet Denver has lowered it negotiating power. We dont know if Seattle wants that pick or not. WE dont even know if they like any of the top QB’s at this point..
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
This negotiating power business is getting out of hand
When the elements to negotiations are not known to anyone….. and we really don’t know what is being said over the phones, what kind of compensation is being talked about, how many buyers are in the market.
Just like when the tenders came out, we had no clue what the circumstances were around “the table” as everyone is calling it…….
It is too painfully obvious to see the outcome to this massive negotiation/tender level argument. Everyone throws out there points with no real reason backing them other then conjecture and assumptions.
Then the outcome will be revealed in a day or a week or whenever, and through the magic of hindsight…. one side of the argument will say “i told you so” and the other side will be nowhere to be found.
you can already see this happening now that Seattle has shown interest, it has given fuel to the fire of one side’s argument and a reason to bash McDaniels/Xanders based on current events that were unknown to anyone when the decision was made.
As to you point above, it doesnt mean anything. Having the first, or the first and third round tender is irrelevent, because the both involve pick #6. Whether Seattle wants pick #6 or not is no more or less apparent when their third rounder is involved as well
I'm not following you
Or we’re on different pages..
The only compensation Denver has to worry about is the 1st round pick. Once Marshall signs that offer that is all Denver is subject too. This is where the third round tender becomes totally relevant. At the point Seattle would probably be picking up the phone looking to make a trade by adding a player or picks etc . At this point Seattle doesnt have to negotiate with Denver at all.
And not once did I bash MCX at all.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
didnt mean you bashed MCX
I meant that in a general term to alot of the talk on the site.
I see what your saying now about the first and third round tender. that the higher price would have forced a negotiation (which might not happen if they decide to just ditch the #6 in the case that they don’t want it.)
when i read the post before this one, i assumed that you were suggesting that by Seattle including their third rounder, they would be showing they have more or less value for that #6. which at the time didnt make much sense to me
no worries
I’m just waiting to see what happens with all this Marshall talk.
Its crazy when you think about it but if 3 years ago someone wouldve told you Cutler, Marshall and possibly Shef would be gone who wouldve thunk it.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
it would have been better to ask you to clarify
given that i can’t think of a time where i have read your stuff and thought it didn’t make any sense at all
thats no problem
sometimes I type so fast my thoughts dont come out coherent.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Berry is worth it...
IMO…He’s a game changer and someone who could roll into the next generation of Broncos’ leaders, something we need going forward as our aging vets being to retire.
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
even with the two safeties we already drafted last year?
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
if you have
a nice Honda Accord and someone offers you a BMW M6, do you jump on it? I do. :)
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
Do BMW's come in orange and blue?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
but more specifically...
other than QB or LT, I’m all for stacking the deck when you can get your hands on someone special. I think Berry has the potential to be that kind of player. Moreover, when I look at our defense, other than Dawkins, we don’t have another strong leadership presence (perhaps Doom this year or McClain if we draft him), but you get my point. I think Berry would fill that need too.
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
by bcfunk on Mar 5, 2010 3:21 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I dont value safeties as high
There have been some great safeties drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds lately.
Otogwe and Delmas to name a few
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
not going to argue with you there...
just would love to leave the first round with Berry and either McClain or Williams. With that 1st round alone, I’d consider our draft a huge success.
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
Yes but Ed Reed, Sean Taylor and Troy Polomalu
were all taken in the first (Sean the high first) and that’s the type of talent we’re talking about with Berry. Not Otogwe or Delmas. Nice players, but not nearly the impact players Taylor (RiP), Polomalu or Reed are/were.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
yes, they all are great safeties
But I believe Otogwe and Delmas are well on their way.
LaRon Landry, Michael Griffin, Reggie Nelson, were all first round safeties that have done squat in this league so far. Its always hit or miss.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Please let's not put Eric Berry
anywhere near Landry, Griffin and Nelson.
Put it this way; when Monty Kiffin, architect of some of the best defenses ever (that relied on quality safties), says he has nothing left to teach him…..he’s pretty good.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
Wasn't Delmas taken with the 1st pick in the 2nd round
which is pretty much a 1st round pick
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 5:33 PM MST up reply actions
I think Berry goes at #5 to KC
My First 5 picks are Bradford, Suh, McCoy, Clausen, Berry. In that order. Clausen could slip if washington take okung.
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 5:32 PM MST up reply actions
You know what really sucks...
The NFL had to go and ruin the draft format by spreading it on Thur & Fri night with Saturday being the clean up day. This year’s draft is perfect for rounds 1-3 on Saturday and 4-7 on Sunday.
Committing random acts of Brandon since 2006...
totally agree
So much for my draft parties every year.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
QUESTION FOR ALL
ESPN artilcle about Marshall to Seattle has alot of Seattle fans sayin all they will do is agree to a contract with B-Marsh then come to Denver to workout a trade, and they all say no way they give up the #6 and probably not the #14, but their second and Deion Branch. I am a Bronco fan in it’s truest form and I am a McD fan big time, but if we give up B-Marsh for a seond and washed up Deion Branch I might go off!
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
I really doubt that we will let Brandon go for a second and Branch.
That is BEYOND one sided……
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
I hope so, even Bill Willamson on ESPN is saying probably a second and a player.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
.................... and you trust his judgement?
lol, just relax T3A. It’s going to be fine.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
No (although Bill has been saying Seattle for a couple months now) but I do worry that the buzz around B-Marsh is he will only generate a 2nd.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
This is true. I just find it hard to believe that this will happen.
I was just over at Field Gulls checking out what they had to say about it. They really want that 6th overall pick. They’ll likely try for that. However, at that point, Denver holds the cards because we can always just say “Well, forget this, we’ll just take your 6th overall”. That hurts their chances of taking Clausen (which everyone over there is in love with).
They offer something else. Rinse and repeat until we get something that we can live with.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
You dont think Claussen will be available at 14?
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Who Cares what the FANS think
They have to give us at least a 1st or they will not get Brandon
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 5:35 PM MST up reply actions
reports are that the teams are rallying in support of eachother
none of them want to offer a 1st for marshall. Denver is going to have to stand strong. If he goes for less than a first than there was never any chance of him staying….
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
There are a handful of WRs in the NFL that duplicated the yardage that Marshall put up in 2009 with 20+ fewer catches and had a higher YPC average. Marshall is not the deep threat that our fans in Denver make him out to be.
I’d gladly take a Miles Austin type of WR that shows up and shuts up long enough to play football over the annual Brandon Marshall drama show that seems to get worse each season. The Saints won the Super Bowl without an elite WR group. I don’t understand how losing BM to Seattle would doom the Broncos to utter failure when they haven’t been more than a .500 club with Marshall at WR for the past 4 seasons.
Take the 6th pick and pick up a stud NT while still holding the 11th overall pick from the Bears to draft a G, MLB, or DE. Trade the Seattle pick to a team willing to give up their 1st and a 3rd and add some good depth to this team. They could find a decent WR in the 3rd round that would be less trouble than Marshall.
I guess there are two sides to the story
Without BMarsh maybe we are a .400 win team. WE’ll never know but the same can be said with Champ, Elvis and Sheff.
The only two problems I have with your post is Miles Austin has only done it for 1 year. Next year he could have a 2nd year like Royal where we’re all stuck wondering if he was the player he was the 1st year or the 2nd year.
Secondly, you’re assuming everything is going to break right for us to get that stud NT at the 6th spot. I seriously doubt either 1 of the big 2 fall that far. Stranger things have happened but at this point it doesnt seem likely.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
But what I think sid66 clearly points out . . .
is that the Broncos had been mediocre over the last 4 years EVEN with Marshall. So this doom and gloom that we can’t live without him is completely unjustified. The Broncos have done nothing with him here. What makes everyone think we can do anything if he stays?
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
I think we're going to find out soon enough.
Honestly. I’m really torn on the Marshall situation. One hand tells me that you can win without a top notch receiver and we’ve all seen so many times before that when a receiver changes teams his production doesnt always carry over to the new team. On the other hand as many of you know I dont think Orton is that great of a QB and certainly one that needs Marshall in the lineup. If I’m right in my evaluations of Orton, next year could be a long season on offense.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
+1,000,000
"The men who have done big things are those who are not afraid to attempt big things, who were not afraid to risk failure in order to gain success."
- B.C Forbes
From biksports
The Broncos and Seahawks are working on a deal for Brandon Marshall..Seahawks might just sign him outright & Broncos won’t match
Tough to miss this
I don’t know if this has been mentioned above or somewhere else.
I was just watching an NFLN video on the Seahawks Marshall situation, and it was stated that the Seahawks do not have a third round pick.
Given that they would have had to have one in order to sign him to a tender that required a First and Third, it would be interesting to see if MCD/X chose the first round only tender knowing that one of the three or four potential major players for Marshall had no third rounder
Anquan Boldin and a 5th round pick
got traded for a late 3rd rounder and late 4th rounder….Call me crazy but this tells me that teams are not willing to pay high prices for WR’s. Say all you want about Marshal being better than Boldin yada yada yada…He’s not that much better and would cost more. The only thing he’s got on Boldin at this point is age. The way this market is shaping up we’ll be lucky to get a 1st rounder. In which case we’d better keep him because his value to the Broncos far exceeds what other teams will offer us. Also if you go around to other teams blogs you’ll find that most patrons value Marshall at a 2nd rounder. Perhaps we’re over valuing our own player.
If teams won't give up a first rounder then we are better off keeping him
I think that fans of other teams are just hoping that he can be had for a 2nd. The fact that his tender level is a 1st means that we will get at least a 1st for him, if not then he will reamain a Bronco.
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein
Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them. - Albert Einstein
I agree
the last thing I want to see is Marshal for a second and a player unless the player is pro bowl caliber. If we’re not going to get the 6th overall pick from Seattle or the 14th plus a player i say get lost Seattle.
Here's my question: If the Seahawks want him why would the Broncos cave to negotiate?
They have all the leverage. If the Seahawks want him they know the price. If he’s going to leave let’s at least make it tough on teams. How pumped is he gonna be if the Seahawks come to him and say, “Well, we really want you, but you’re not worth some unproven college guy.” Make it tough on them. Please Broncos, don’t cave just because you want B-Marsh gone.
Agreed The Broncos have all the leverage
If Seattle wants him that bad then they have to give up at least the #6 pick. I do not think McDaniels will give in
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 5, 2010 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
If other teams are interested in Marshall
besides Seattle then the Broncos will get what they want. The bidding war will benefit us.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
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